=== _emgent is now known as emgent [07:31] [A2 === ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Kubuntu Developers Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 12 Mar 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 19 Mar 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 26 Mar 21:00 UTC: Server Team [10:50] Is the meeting beginning? :) [10:50] soon (tm) [10:50] almost [10:55] @schedule Paris [10:55] Schedule for Europe/Paris: Current meeting: Kubuntu Developers 12 Mar 22:00: Server Team | 19 Mar 22:00: Server Team | 26 Mar 22:00: Server Team [10:55] hmm [10:56] @now Paris [10:56] Current time in Europe/Paris: March 08 2008, 11:56:48 - Current meeting: Kubuntu Developers [11:00] noon all [11:00] who's here for the meeting? [11:00] noon confirmed here ;-) [11:00] * Lure is here, but may need to run in half an hour [11:00] We have one agenda item for today: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings [11:01] and dear apachelogger's disappeared again [11:01] Is the meeting beginning? :) [11:01] jpatrick: we can reject his proposal in his absence ;-) [11:01] * Hobbsee is here [11:01] * xRaich[o]2x is here for the meeting. Just peeking. [11:01] * Hobbsee is even on kubuntu atm! [11:02] theunixgeek: seems to be [11:02] * stdin starts paying attention [11:02] Hobbsee: welcome back to sanity ;-) [11:02] Lure: and bugs, yes. [11:02] Hobbsee: just right time to fix some ;-) [11:02] anyone have any items to discuss? [11:02] * Hobbsee isn't exactly sure why some of the windows will refuse to raise from minimised, though [11:04] nothing to discuss then? [11:04] or any last minute member candidates? [11:04] is Riddell here? [11:04] jpatrick: not sure if we have quorum [11:04] nixternal: might be around [11:04] Hobbsee: he's out so I got leadership for meeting [11:04] jpatrick: eparse [11:05] jpatrick: me [11:05] theunixgeek: do you have a wikipage? [11:05] jpatrick: on wikipedia yes :P [11:05] Lure: we can still mail the other council members with member requests [11:05] ubotu: tell theunixgeek about member [11:07] well, one apache's item, I'm all in for having Dragon Player as default :) [11:08] jpatrick: without being a member I can't participate in the meeting? [11:08] makes sense since it's the only qt4 player currently available === smarter_ is now known as smarter [11:08] jpatrick: I also do not see better alternative at this point of time [11:08] smplayer is also available [11:08] theunixgeek: you can [11:08] theunixgeek: you can participate [11:08] and kplayer(but not packaged) [11:08] smarter: don't see kplayer getting past Feature Freeze [11:09] and we'll need a MainInclusionReport for DragonPlayer [11:09] theunixgeek: membership is more a recognition of contribution, but we accept any contributions from anybody - so feel free to contribute on our meetings [11:09] ok :) [11:09] jpatrick: not really - kde4 will stay in universe [11:09] -1 to dragon player. does it do ogg? [11:10] but people using kde4 at its current state should be able to pick a video player on their own anyway [11:10] Lure: for ibex, but it's going to be part for kdemultimedia by then [11:10] last time I checked you couldn't switch between DVD chapters with dragonplayer [11:10] Hobbsee: yep, it's KDE 4 codeine [11:11] and I've seen lots of people complaining about the lack of features of dragonplayer [11:11] another Qt4 player is the new VLC(beta atm) [11:11] i'm for qt4 vlc, if it works well [11:12] So when will the meeting begin? :) [11:12] either the deps are wrong, or this player is very unstable. [11:12] or it just doesn't like me [11:13] * Hobbsee had one file where it crashed, and another with no audio [11:13] Hobbsee: well, apache packaged it [11:13] but it won't be possible to make kde4 a feature-complete desktop as kde3 at it's current state, so i think stability of the apps is more important, kde4 is buggy enough [11:14] er, no *video* [11:14] what kde4 version will hardy use, btw? 4.0.2 or later(svn)? [11:14] 4.0.3/4.0.4 [11:16] oh, doesn't work with desktop effects enabled, at all, on intel cards [11:16] I've heard Debian will start uploading KDE 4.1 betas this month [11:17] (or at least they refused my dragonplayer package because of that) [11:17] sorry for showing up late [11:17] looks like a nice player, modulo that [11:17] hi kwwii [11:17] hi Hobbsee [11:17] jpatrick: i thought 4.1 would be released in summer? [11:17] but i suspect that's a driver problem [11:17] fir3__: hence the betas [11:17] fir3__: snapshots and stuff [11:18] nice :) [11:18] * Hobbsee watches monty python in the background [11:18] This is the meeting? :) It's completely different than I thought. [11:19] Suse also is doing a KDE4.1 snapshot livecd. [11:19] theunixgeek: it's rather relaxed today. something with not much to do on the agenda [11:19] ok [11:21] anyone have any topics we could discuss at UDS this May? [11:22] how about the website redesign, perhaps working on the wiki as well [11:23] kwwii: ryancak is working on the website and it's going on quite well [11:23] (Current UDS topics I have are http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/58858/ btw) [11:24] looks like a good list :-) [11:25] I think JR changed it at one point tho, but other items are welcome [11:26] I had hoped taht stefan would be at the meeting to discuss the new themeing he put together [11:28] any url so we can all see it? [11:32] unfortunately it is all on his server, no idea where :-( [11:32] he'll miss the beta and after that it will be too late .-( [11:34] hrm.. :-( [11:35] I suppose there's always Ibex, or is it KDE 3 themeing? [11:37] I saw that you guys consider to pick up koffice for the kubuntu-office-suite. Are we talking about Ibex Office here? [11:38] xRaich[o]2x: those ideas are all for ibex [11:39] jpatrick: I just tested Krita and it's still in unusable state. And I don't think it'll be any better when Ibex comes out. When are they planing to do the final? [11:41] xRaich[o]2x: no idea, maybe by summer [11:41] hey, we could get _czessi up for membership (as he's in the ~kubuntu-members queue) [11:43] Hmm. Maybe they'll hit that date. If they do it would be a cool alternative for openoffice. [11:46] yeah [11:46] so, anything else to discuss? [11:47] not from me [11:47] jpatrick: Just checked the koffice site. They are planning to release it in june. [11:48] xRaich[o]2x: awesome :) [11:48] May 16 RC1. I'll be sure to Test the beta ^^ [11:49] xRaich[o]2x: well the final will probably get into Ibex [11:50] well, meeting over I guess.. [11:50] and thanks for coming :) === ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 12 Mar 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 19 Mar 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 26 Mar 21:00 UTC: Server Team === emonkey-t is now known as emonkey === _czessi is now known as Czessi === neversfelde_ is now known as neversfelde === emonkey-t is now known as emonkey [18:40] it the ubuntu art meeting soon? [18:41] http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event look at the calendar [18:41] ok === asac_ is now known as asac [19:47] hi [19:57] touchpad and trackpoint (lenovo laptop) [20:12] oops, wrong window [20:13] :) [20:13] are people here for the art meeting? [20:14] no idea [20:15] 45 minutes to go [20:15] i think .. [20:16] the art meeting is not scheduled, are you sure to be in the right channel? [20:16] sorry, I was just making sure that art meeting was up next. [20:16] [20:16] andrea-bs: that's what I was trying to check, I'm not sure [20:17] andrea-bs: I noticed it wasn't on the schedule [20:17] dsargeant: sometimes there are also some non-scheduled meetings [20:19] I guess I'll find out in 45 mins [20:19] I think it will be took here: [20:20] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2008-March/005494.html [20:20] and now it's 20:22 UTC ? [20:21] yep [20:21] @now [20:21] good. [20:21] I mean gooooooood [20:22] it's late :( [20:22] I've got to go at a party with friends next [20:22] but for me, meeting is at 22:00 [20:22] if you wanna know much more about my exciting life, mail me. [20:22] ^^ [20:23] =D [20:28] someone speaks Spanish? === txwikinger2 is now known as txwikinger [20:47] ten minutes remaining. [20:48] Current time in Etc/UTC: March 08 2008, 20:48:04 - Next meeting: Server Team in 4 days [20:48] art meeting soon [20:48] even if it is incorrectly planned :p [20:51] :) [20:52] incorrectly planned? [20:53] it wasn't on the schedule http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event [20:54] ahh, yeah i noticed that too. But it was on the "artwork" section of the site. So you know, we're here. [20:54] :-) [20:55] no harm done [20:55] indeed [20:58] ok, let's give people a few more minutes to join and then start things up [21:01] ok, so everyone/anyone here for the art meeting? [21:01] i am [21:02] me too [21:02] ok, so let's go through the points [21:02] * GDM: getting the bg inline with the wallpaper; new icons [21:02] * GTK: tweaking the gtk themes and discussing clearlooks vs. murrine [21:02] * DESKTOP: Wallpaper tweaks. Discussing current state, ideas for moving [21:02] forward [21:02] * ICONS: Needed! Update icon in Human style for panel; Scale and Expose [21:02] icons; General state of human refresh [21:02] * 8.10: Discuss current ideas, how to move forward [21:02] * 8.10 DeviantArt Theme Competition: A way to engage with the wider [21:02] community of creative-commons artists. [21:02] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/deviantart-theme-competition [21:02] hello, i'm here this time [21:02] well, that did not work as well as I thought it could [21:03] let's start at the top; GDM [21:03] the GDM must look like the main theme [21:03] hello everyone people [21:03] been thinking about using a heron-like bg for the gdm [21:03] hi gp[], sam7 laughing_man, dsargeant [21:04] hello [21:04] yes, the hardy heron, with only one button in the left corner [21:04] maybe it should match with the wallpaper .. ? [21:04] yest [21:04] can we refrain from acyronims for the time being. [21:04] fruchtschwert: that is the point, really [21:04] kwwii, you mean changing GDM at each release ? [21:04] what is GDM? [21:04] Gnome Display Manager [21:04] you connexion screen [21:05] steph_: I would like to see the bg in gdm at least match with the desktop [21:05] it does not have to be exactly the same [21:05] it must be the same as the theme used by default [21:05] are we decided on the wallpaper then? [21:05] of course [21:05] just using some elements from the wallpaper would be enough I htink [21:05] but it must look like [21:05] sorry for my bad english [21:05] we are very close to being certain that some form of the heron will be default [21:05] either the heron or elephant [21:06] my vote's for the heron [21:06] what about this kutie fela wallpaper ? [21:06] the 2 will be instaled by default [21:06] why elephant ? [21:06] yes, I must admit GDM is a little too 'simple' [21:06] i agre with you kwwii for the gdm, i vote for heron [21:06] we could tweak it a littlt [21:06] fruchtschwert: feta kuli is the heron I am talking about [21:06] GDM & wallpaper [21:06] heron & elephant [21:06] another point in gdm is the icons that come with it [21:07] we need to make new ones (I cretaed one quickly to fix a bug) [21:07] are we using the same gdm layout? [21:07] dsargeant: bascially, yes [21:07] 2 colours : brown/orange for gnome and blue for KDE [21:07] dsargeant: unless we can think of some worthwhile change [21:07] yes, new icones is a good idea [21:08] more modern [21:08] kwwii, the one you've done is quite nice :) [21:08] so if anyone is interested in working on either of those points, let me know [21:08] I want to learn icon creations. This doesn't mean I can do it :) [21:08] steph_: the general style of those icons is nasty though [21:08] old fashionned [21:08] right [21:09] i dont know how to do it, but it must be interesting [21:09] I'd like to have a look, but I'm gonna be disconnected :] [21:09] by the way, just a question [21:09] what icons in particular are we talking about? i'm soooo lost. [21:09] so moving on to the next topic [21:09] is there a way to make a better transition between GDM and Desktop [21:09] laughing_man: the restart, shut-down, hibernate, sleep icons in the menu at the bottom left of gdm (after you click on the system icon) [21:09] how'd you say the word...it's not gradient [21:10] steph_: that is one thing that we are pretty much always looking into [21:10] but it is not something that will happen soon [21:10] why not create a new usplash [21:10] and a nice grub .. [21:10] sam7: feel free to make a proposal [21:10] i'm not the big developer .. just asking .. [21:11] yes, all the icones must be changed, and more modern [21:11] shouldn't those icons be the same as are displayed when you click on system quit in gnome? [21:11] so, next topic [21:11] GTK [21:11] I tweaked both the themes a bit [21:11] Can't find the word [21:11] i dont know how to do [21:11] that should be apparent by now...I have another change ready, getting the orange color correct is somewhat hard and took some testing [21:11] i think the new LTS must be the occasion to change icones by defaul [21:11] is there a visual database of all these proposals? or is this all conceptual/descriptive at this point? [21:11] dsargeant: ideally yes, all the icons for that metaphor should look the same [21:12] kwwii, do you submit your changes to a bzr repo anywhere? [21:12] i'd like to learn to do it [21:12] mgunes: yes, I put the changes in human-theme on launchpad [21:12] but it should already be in the repo I guess [21:12] And there I was in -artwork wondering why everyone was so quiet [21:13] mgunes: I will be commiting some more changes either later or tomorrow [21:13] mikemaccana: :-) [21:13] sb end [21:13] kwwii, thanks [21:13] I think the color selection ability in the gtk should be a priority. [21:13] I think that if we are going to change the theme engine murrine looks like the more flexible engine [21:13] dsargeant: I agree with that too an extent [21:14] yes, the colors are important [21:14] the idea behind the color select stuff is great, but if I cannot easily make a theme which looks like I want it to, I will happily lose that option for this one theme [21:14] so far the clearlooks is the only one that has the ability, correct? [21:14] something between brown and orange for example [21:14] there is a suggested murrine as well [21:14] I thought about playing with that for a bit to see if I could fix things up [21:15] kwwii, human-murrine-mod? [21:15] yes, I agre with the idea to swith at murrine engine [21:15] mgunes: yes [21:15] all right, well as much fun as this is.. i think i'm just going to bow out now because i'm just an artist i got no idea what you people are refering to with all your GTK GDM etc. talk.. Good luck with everything! i'll just submit a wallpaper or something on deviantart. [21:15] with black and or grey [21:15] kwwii, at the moment, I'm using a theme I found yesterday on the Web, wich is MurrinaTango [21:15] is the gradient between menubar and symbolbar available in murrine too ? [21:15] this hack by xlcheese ? [21:15] I think we should do something in the style [21:15] give you a screenshot [21:15] for the "tableau de bords" [21:15] Hmm, I currently use an orange Aurora theme I assembled myself. Somebody else described it as "another unnecessary fork of Murrine", but it looks way different to me. [21:15] first off, we will not be using any hacked themes [21:15] it is too late for that now [21:15] laughing_man: are you subsribed to the ubuntu-art mailing list? [21:16] no [21:16] so if we pick a theme engine it is between clearlooks and murrine [21:16] or ubuntulooks, naturally [21:16] I get the feeling that just trying to tweak things in an existing theme is not the right way to go about this [21:16] laughing_man: people seem to be submitting artwork there [21:16] My current theme also uses the Tropic metacity theme without the red button. [21:16] www.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/screenshot.png -- can you make Murrine look like that Aurora, too? [21:16] but i heard murrine has more modern features than clearlooks without hacks [21:16] the murrine is a good a flexible engine [21:16] so probably choose this one [21:16] we should know what we want in advance and then get a theme written which does that [21:17] dsargent: i'm not a hardcore linux user i just use it for basic things.. i wanted to help out with the art, but i'm just too confused by all this technical speak to keep up, or really contribute. [21:17] murrine is a good idea [21:17] laughing_man: it will not all be this technical [21:17] i also read, murrine can do transparency .. this would be great [21:17] laughing_man: yeah, don't be discouraged. The deviant art topic is on the agenda too. [21:18] sorry for the late arrival, had some technical issues [21:18] yes, its great transparency [21:18] I saw the color scheme used in Alpha 6 for murrine and it very nice [21:18] I think that the way forward is to try and use murrine with the intent to create a theme of our own based somewhat on that for hardy+1 [21:18] I agre with you (kwwii) [21:18] well if you could point me to screen shots like danaG i can give an opinion.. :-) [21:18] why not for the 8.04 LTS [21:19] http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/1379/murrinatangofb7.png [21:19] murrine is very flexible [21:19] is it possible to add the color selection to murrine? [21:19] keep up the discussion on the list about this stuff [21:19] kwwii, I reckon what we want to do is get rid of the blandness of Ubuntulooks and introduce a tiny bit of vividness and contrast with a new engine, without drifting too far from the theme of the last three releases [21:19] kwwii, what do you think about the menubar ? [21:19] i agree with mgunes [21:20] The menubar must be more modern [21:20] more fluide [21:20] mgunes: I think that things like the ubuntulooks scrollbars and progress bars are pretty cool and that we might want to evolve that style a bit instead of just pitching it because an existing theme doesn't do it like that [21:20] I like the stripes in menubars [21:20] so, the next subject is the wallpaper [21:20] it seems like we have almost covered that already [21:20] are these bars not possible with murrine ? [21:21] The animated progress bars look strange in network manager. [21:21] i think it's important to perserve the colorscheme of ubuntu.. :-) and i do like the stripes in the menubars.. it's simple but looks polished and slick. [21:21] i like them [21:21] feta kuli (the heron pic) is very popular [21:21] the systeme menu must be reorganised [21:21] I will probably edit the background parts a bit to reduce the contrast [21:21] i think its a great idea to make a connection with the distribution naming [21:22] kwwi, what are you reffering to when you say you'll edit? [21:22] do you have a screen image i can see? [21:22] If the (tweaked not to look bloody) heron pic ends up as default in Hardy, I am so going to get a case skin of it (with a black background) for my next laptop. [21:22] laughing_man: what I miss most in the murrine progress bars is the little lines showing percentage or whatever [21:22] the problem is that "Hardy Heron" isn't the release name. it's the development codename [21:22] I noticed some issues with the background on some screens with 16 bit systems, anyone else ran into that? [21:22] besides, most non-English speaking people won't associate the picture with a "Heron" [21:22] err...16 bit color depth [21:22] andreasn: probably with the gradient and the transparent things on top [21:23] color-banding or whatever it is called [21:23] doesn't mark shuttleworth give guidelines concerning the wallpaper ? or at least an opinion ? [21:23] what is the murrine progress bar? lol i don't know the technical names of anything... sorry [21:23] fruchtschwert: yes, he does, to me :-) [21:23] kwwii: did you settle for either murrine or clearloooks yet? [21:23] so, what does he say :-) [21:23] laughing_man: murrine is the engine used to draw windows. [21:23] andreasn: nope, not sure yet [21:24] maybe we should rewind to engine once more [21:24] andreasn: it will either be murrine or ubuntulooks again [21:24] to gtk i mean [21:24] if you ask me, that is ;-) [21:24] kwwii: ah, ok [21:24] dsargeant: nope, murrine is used to draw all the things inside windows, metacity is used to draw windows :D [21:24] Are murrine and clearlooks the only two choices? I'd hope to also see Aurora and Fedora's Nodoka engines packaged, at least, even if not used by default. Both theme engines look nice to me. [21:25] and metacity theme have to be reviewed [21:25] DanaG: they could certainly be packaged, have you ever done that kinda stuff before? [21:25] did either of those (ubuntulooks or murrine) have any issues with the firefox3 betas? I know Nodoka ran into some issues [21:25] cause I think this is the most old-fshionned of the theme [21:25] the developer of murrine quite critized these alternative engines [21:25] kwwii: sorry, that's what I meant, the insides [21:25] Here's a theme I used for a while, until I realized it was making me gloomy: http://users.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/screenshot-dark.png [21:25] I had read that artist were asked to use open-source graphics software to create the wallpaper? Is that set in stone? because frankly OSS graphics software is nowhere near as good as Adobe software. can someone explain were we're at on that? [21:25] as useless forks :-) [21:26] laughing_man: no, that is not really true [21:26] why not use a new metacity theme? xl_cheese posted a very nice metacity theme in mailinglist [21:26] If you can reproduce them with Murrine, then they're useless, but otherwise, they seem different to me. [21:26] andreasn, see bug 192778 [21:26] Dana, this is gloomy... we don't want people to get depressed! [21:26] gp[]: because that would change the look of the last of the cycle, a long term support product [21:26] But just look at the engine and ignore the wallpaper and colors. Fedora 8 uses that engine with a ridiculously-bright blue. [21:26] we will change things up after hardy [21:26] metacity is beautifull too [21:26] mgunes: gnome bugzilla? mozilla or launchpad? [21:26] DanaG, it looks a little KDE-like, but nice [21:27] andreasn, sorry, LP [21:27] kwwii: ok ok [21:27] Okay so it's my impression that we're working to design the default graphics on this, but everything will still be as customizable a ever right? [21:27] laughing_man: yepp [21:27] we should copy fedora [21:27] we should not [21:27] laughing_man, free graphical softwares are quite powerful...if you know how to use it [21:27] i wanted to say [21:27] no, we mus'nt copy [21:27] I'll screenshot that theme with orange. [21:27] * kwwii runs to the bathroom at the half-way point [21:28] .. so somebody knows a good joke ? [21:28] steph, i'm sorry to say for professional purposes, FOSS graphics programs don't hold a candle to photoshop.. hate to say it, but it's true. [21:29] Really high professionals, in this case [21:29] steph: some of us are that ;-) [21:29] ok, sorry for that [21:29] yes dana please screenshot the theme you're talking about. [21:29] so next up.... [21:29] ICONS [21:29] laughing_man: My opinion is you can use whatever you want to create the art as long as it can be opened with foss. [21:30] we hae several icons which need to be made, anyone here want to make an icon? :-) [21:30] pretty please? [21:30] good opinion dsargent.. :-) [21:30] kwwii, what's the status of your panel icons? [21:30] what do you want the icon to be made for? [21:30] I don't know if someone noticed [21:30] but in your home folder [21:30] default view [21:30] why not, if someone tell me how to do [21:30] and what type of file should it be to be useable? [21:30] folder icons don't look really nice [21:30] www.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/screenshot-orange-nodoka.png [21:31] but just type Ctrl + (increase icon size) and they look really great ! [21:31] too bad it's not the same effect at normal size. [21:31] mgunes: a few of them are done, kinda hoping that others would pitch in as well :-) [21:31] thats nice dana [21:31] we found that we need to make them smaller, the same size as the text [21:31] the clock text, I mena [21:31] dana: i don't see the difference between this one and the first SS you posted. [21:31]