[00:04] <slangasek> Keybuk: this doesn't sound like an improvement to me
[00:04] <slangasek> at best, it sounds like needless churn...
[00:04] <Keybuk> slangasek: if the backup program runs as a known user, you can grant that in PK as a permanent authorisation
[00:04] <Keybuk> therefore it always has an ACL
[00:05] <slangasek> yes, you can - but why do that?
[00:05] <slangasek> what's the pk equivalent to adduser --system?
[00:05] <Keybuk> I don't understand, sorry?
[00:06] <slangasek> you're installing a backup package. you want the backup package to set itself up in the correct group when added.  Today, you do that by adding a system user and putting it in the disk group using standard commands.
[00:06] <Keybuk> ah, we're talking about different cases
[00:06] <ion_> I guess adduser --system ...; polkit-auth ...
[00:07] <Keybuk> sorry, I was thinking of a random user running a backup program
[00:07] <slangasek> ah
[00:07] <Keybuk> if they weren't authorised to access the disk, it would require some kind of better authorisation
[00:07] <Keybuk> ie. it'd pop up a dialog asking for the root password, or something
[00:07] <Keybuk> if they're an admin, it would instead ask for their password
[00:07] <Keybuk> etc.
[00:08] <Keybuk> but without setuid helpers
[00:08] <Keybuk> which are evil
[00:08] <slangasek> but I don't think giving end users full read access to the disks is ever the right thing either, whether it's brokered through policy kit or otherwise
[00:08] <Keybuk> you say "I want to access this device", and if you are allowed (by implicit, explicit or obtained authorisation) you get an ACL on it
[00:09] <Keybuk> the problem with the group-per-device model is that you need a group per device
[00:09] <Keybuk> e.g. that scard group
[00:09] <Keybuk> we have yet another class of device "smartcards"
[00:09] <Keybuk> so someone invents yet another system group
[00:09] <Keybuk> and then grants some application implicit access to those kinds of devices
[00:09] <Keybuk> or expects you to grant access to all users, etc.
[00:09] <ion_> Does policykit modify the actual filesystem ACLs and then reset them when the authorization expires?
[00:09] <Keybuk> ion_: HAL does that
[00:09] <slangasek> for devices where you routinely want to grant end-users access, I agree that the ACL model is better
[00:10] <slangasek> but you listed the 'disk' group, and I think that's a bug :)
[00:10] <Keybuk> slangasek: I think we can both agree background daemons are a special case
[00:10] <Keybuk> yeah disk was, I was typing dialout actually, then came back and saw "di" so finished with disk
[00:10] <Keybuk> obviously we don't normally place users in the disk group right now
[00:10] <slangasek> aha :)
[04:27] <fabbione> superm1: congrats on the mythtv release
[04:27]  * fabbione tests
[04:27] <superm1> thanks fabbione.  went surprisingly smooth :)
[04:27] <superm1> i need to pester someone in ~ubuntu-backporters now
[04:27] <superm1> and get it in gutsy
[04:27] <superm1> and we'll be done
[04:28] <fabbione> i hope they have fixed the .iso/dvd playback
[04:28] <fabbione> because i tested also normal DVD playback using Cars from Disney in a normal dvd player and it was royal crap
[04:29] <fabbione> and yes the dvd was original..
[04:31] <jdong> fabbione: Disney and Sony DVD's are horrendously awful to play on computers because of the ARCcOS crap they use
[04:31] <jdong> I can't even get mplayer to play some of these discs
[04:31] <fabbione> jdong: it used to play fine with older version of Mythtv
[04:31] <jdong> superm1: I'm no sick break, so no!
[04:31] <jdong> fabbione: ah, then you aren't affected
[04:31] <superm1> on sick break?
[04:31] <jdong> fabbione: but for the record High School Musical 2 is ARCcOS protected ;-)
[04:31] <fabbione> jdong: this is a regression i already discussed with superm1
[04:32] <jdong> (little sister. I swear.)
[04:32] <superm1> jdong, being on sick break is even more of a reason to ack such backport bugs :)
[04:32] <jdong> superm1: yes, no backporting while I'm vomiting :)
[04:32] <superm1> bah.
[04:32] <superm1> that
[04:32] <superm1> s boring
[04:32]  * Fujitsu strangles jdong for mentioning such a vile, vile movie.
[04:32] <jdong> superm1: not when it's possibly due to contamination of food utensils
[04:32] <superm1> wow that's horrible.
[04:33] <fabbione> jdong: i was able to reproduce that problem with several others non sony nor disney dvd's
[04:33] <jdong> Fujitsu: lol, I know. I scrubbed the images off my computer.
[04:33] <fabbione> jdong: some just don't start play.. others only audio.. other times only video
[04:33] <jdong> fabbione: ah different problem then
[04:33] <fabbione> and i am sure they used to work before 0.21*
[04:33] <fabbione> yup indeed
[04:33] <jdong> fabbione: I've had different issues with media players getting stuck in copy protection pits
[04:33] <jdong> annoying as hell, takes 30+ minutes to dig itself out and continue playing
[04:34] <jdong> ah the lengths the movie industry goes for annoying the consumer
[04:35] <fabbione> jdong: thing is that both mplayer and xine plays those DVD's just fine on the same machine
[04:35] <slangasek> their target audience is too young to have taken a civics class
[04:35] <fabbione> only mythtv interal player doesn't
[04:36]  * jdong kicks fglrx.
[04:36] <jdong> *cry* My tummy hurts, my head hurts, and fglrx corrupted my screen. How could my day get any worse?
[04:36] <superm1> it took your GPG key with it?
[04:36] <fabbione> your hd will die in a few minutes
[04:37] <jdong> lol you guys are evil
[04:37] <jdong> click.
[04:37] <fabbione> i don't remember any part of the CoC that explicity requires me _NOT_ to be evil :P
[04:38] <fabbione> oh speaking of GPG.. need to revoke a few uid's
[04:38] <superm1> jdong, well i'm doing the legwork on the backport and attaching the build logs and such.  so it will just need a shiny +1 attached from you when you are alive again
[04:39]  * Fujitsu revokes fabbione.
[04:39] <jdong> superm1: alright, that sounds good, thanks
[04:39] <ion_> fabbione: Please do not revoke mine.
[04:40] <fabbione> ion_: ?
[04:40] <fabbione> i can only remove uid's from my keys...
[04:40] <ion_> Just a poor attempt at a joke. :-)
[04:40] <fabbione> it's like 5:40am here.. have been awake all night cleaning my son's vomit and poking at xml
[04:40] <ion_> (Yeah, unless you’re a Chuck Norris.)
[04:41] <fabbione> ask yourself how much humor i have left in my body
[04:41]  * ChuckNorris bashes ion_ 
[04:41] <ion_> Better than cleaning your son’s xml and poking at vomit.
[04:41] <ion_> And i’m sorry your son is sick. :-(
[04:41] <fabbione> not your fault dude..
[04:41] <fabbione> he got somekind of bug 2 days ago
[04:42] <fabbione> high fever and all that crap
[04:42] <ion_> Sorry, as in feeling sorry for him.
[04:42] <fabbione> yeah
[04:42] <fabbione> thanks
[04:42] <ion_> How old is he?
[04:43] <fabbione> 18 months
[04:43] <jdong> aww poor kid
[04:44] <jdong> somehow, though, I think the parents suffer more than the kids
[04:44] <fabbione> jdong: you are so right on this
[04:44] <jdong> not in the sense of cleaning up, but watching a helplessly miserably toddler
[04:44] <fabbione> indeed
[04:45] <ion_> About the age of my nephew.
[04:45] <jdong> well, hope he gets better soon...
[04:45] <fabbione> yeah so do i
[04:45] <fabbione> also because when he is sick he hangs on my neck all the time like a little monkey
[04:45] <fabbione> he doesn't go to mummy at all
[04:48] <Hobbsee> fabbione: bet mummy's happy with that
[04:48] <jdong> fabbione: aww surely you've gotta feel some inner sense of satisfaction with that :)
[04:48] <fabbione> Hobbsee: indeed :)
[04:49] <fabbione> jdong: only when i am not dead tired
[04:54] <superm1> jdong, okay its bug 200044.  i'll subscribe ubuntu-backporters though in case someone else decides to grab it.
[04:55] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 200044 in gutsy-backports "MythTV 0.21 Suite backport" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/200044
[04:55] <jdong> superm1: mmkay, the perl module is a new hardy package?
[04:55] <superm1> yeah
[04:55] <Hobbsee> what's up with tzdata?
[04:55] <superm1> i wanted to get it to debian too, but i dont have a sponsor yet for it in debian
[04:56] <Hobbsee> pitti: ping?
[04:56] <Hobbsee> Setting up tzdata (2007k-0ubuntu0.7.10.1) ...
[04:56] <Hobbsee> dpkg: error processing tzdata (--configure):
[04:56] <Hobbsee>  subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 10
[04:56] <Hobbsee> Errors were encountered while processing:
[04:56] <Hobbsee>  tzdata
[04:58] <jdong> Hobbsee: guess it's too late!
[04:59] <Hobbsee> jdong: this is gutsy.  i'ts not supposed to break!
[04:59] <jdong> Hobbsee: it seemed to work fine for me when I applied it earlier today (as a data point)
[04:59] <Hobbsee> hmmm
[04:59] <superm1> an older release breaking from an update?  blasphemy !
[05:00] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[05:00] <Hobbsee> it's because i've changed the default timezone
[05:02] <Hobbsee> yeah, there we go.
[05:10] <superm1> jdong, er yeah you probably wanted a build log from the perl module too. i'll attach that.
[05:11] <jdong> superm1: nah I trust your word
[05:23] <dbmoodb> in case you don't know - broadcom pcmcia laptop card freezes on eject - have not given it the firmware yet - i assume this is to do with networking manager ....
[05:24] <jdong> is there a bug filed on this?
[05:24] <dbmoodb> --- i don't know i have just installed hardy and was testing it out
[05:24] <jdong> randomly coming into IRC with bugs rarely allows the message to reach the right people...
[05:25] <dbmoodb> yes i was hoping i would be told if some one was aware of one
[05:25] <dbmoodb> i am tired and was hoping that a bug had already been filed
[05:26] <jdong> :)
[05:26] <dbmoodb> sorry - wrong room should have joined ubuntu+1
[05:26] <jdong> not a problem
[05:26] <`Xenocide> the odds of someone else reporting this AND paying attention to IRC are low
[05:26] <dbmoodb> - should i repost it in there or are most people in both
[05:26] <`Xenocide> you might as well use launchpad itself to find similar bugs
[05:28] <dbmoodb> well i am not involved with ubuntu that much at this stage and have previously made a noise and a blah of my self in #ubuntu so i don't really want to do work for you guys - in a major form i am just testing hardy out of interest.
[05:29] <`Xenocide> well, the only way it gets fixed is if the people with the problem communicate with the people who can fix it
[05:29] <slangasek> I don't understand why you would want to test hardy and bother to report issues, but not report them in the manner than will get them fixed?
[05:31] <dbmoodb> because i don't want to get recognition for them because an attempt to contribute in an extended manner is not what i can do for the ubuntu community. i will give our cds but i am not wanting recognition online
[05:32] <`Xenocide> recognition, or responsibility?
[05:32] <dbmoodb> recognition
[05:36] <LaserJock> that didn't make a whole lot of sense
[05:50] <slangasek> LaserJock: clearly he's a famous Microsoft employee who doesn't want us to recognize him when he files bug reports :)
[05:51] <LaserJock> yeah ...
[05:52] <Hobbsee> he's not.
[05:52] <Hobbsee> (thank goodness)
[05:52] <Hobbsee> he's at my uni
[05:57] <slangasek> Hobbsee: oh. why is he being weird about bugfiling? :)
[05:58] <fabbione> slangasek: because the water spins the opposite direction in Down Under
[05:58] <Hobbsee> slangasek: nfi.
[05:59]  * fabbione starts to have nightmares about xml
[06:27] <Hobbsee> so, this is strange.
[10:52] <tjaalton> hm, what happened to the fonts.. they look "bigger" and fuzzier now
[10:56] <zdzichu_1> tjaalton: check workaround at second-to-last comment in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/153521
[10:56] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 153521 in ubuntu "fonts are blurred with subpixel rendering" [Undecided,New]
[10:57] <afflux> Is this intended or will this be fixed eventually?
[10:58] <zdzichu_1> AFAIK this won't be fixed.
[10:59] <afflux> :(
[11:13] <tjaalton> zdzichu_1: thanks!
[11:13] <tjaalton> maybe that bug should be reassigned..
[11:13] <tjaalton> it's not against any package atm
[12:01] <Hobbsee> !ping
[12:01] <ubotu> ping yourself ;-) really the diodes all down my left side are sore
[14:37] <ompaul> !ops | sorry to be a pain - ubotu is currently lagged like crazy can't be fixed due to auth issues - please people in #ubuntu-ops and I'll can a spare bot to join and please mute ubotu
[14:38] <ompaul> ohh like that is going to be fun -- there will be a 20 min lag on reply or there abouts
[14:52] <ubotu> sorry to be a pain - ubotu is currently lagged like crazy can't be fixed due to auth issues - please people in #ubuntu-ops and I'll can a spare bot to join and please mute ubotu: Help! bhale, infinity, Hobbsee, jdub, thom, fooishbar, fabbione, mdz, lamont, or Keybuk
[14:55] <highvolt1ge> ubotu: ping?
[14:55] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about ping? - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[15:02] <ompaul> highvolt1ge, it was 20 mins before that we seem to be getting waves of this
[15:02] <ompaul> since yesterday
[15:03] <ompaul> seveas said he can't get secure access for a couple of days if it is problematic drop into #ubuntu-ops and request ubotwo if ubotu is muted
[15:25] <highvolt1ge> ompaul: ok thanks, doesn't seem serious (yet) though
[15:25] <ompaul> (tm) ;-)9
[16:10] <xsystemx>  Xlibs not found at -L/usr/X11R6/lib - How can I find out what package is required ?
[16:12] <crimsun> xsystemx: fix the build system; that path is deprecated
[16:13] <crimsun> xsystemx: in any case, you'd want at least libx11-dev, possibly more.  Check the log.
[16:14] <xsystemx> crimsun - just trying to install virtualbox from source?
[16:15] <xsystemx> crimsun - install all imaginable binary packages and still getting the error?
[16:16] <crimsun> xsystemx: you'd need some subset of "apt-get build-dep virtualbox-ose"
[16:17] <crimsun> xsystemx: may be better directed to #ubuntu-motu, in fact
[16:17] <xsystemx> crisum - motu = ?
[16:29] <pochu> jcastro: hello, I have a question regarding UDS, do you have a moment for a /msg ?
[16:44] <afflux> Apport is doing weird things these days. ubuntu-crashes-* isn't subscribed to some bugs (for example bug 199846, which was reported by myself), some bugs just don't have the "need-*-retrace" tags (bug 199911) the retracer simply removes the "need-*-retrace" tags (also bug 199846). Anyone knows what's going on?
[16:44] <ubotu> Bug 199846 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/199846 is private
[16:44] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 199911 in emerald "emerald crashed with SIGSEGV in gdk_gc_new_with_values()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199911
[16:44] <ubotu> Bug 199846 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/199846 is private
[16:44] <afflux> (I manually added the need-i386-retrace tag to 199911)
[16:51] <Adri2000> who takes care of https://lists.ubuntu.com ? I doubt ubuntu-qa is a loco team :)
[16:52] <LaserJock> depends on which "loco" they're talking about ;p
[16:53] <Adri2000> :p
[19:01] <m8ram> is this the right place for general questions on developing packages?
[19:01] <james_w> m8ram: not really. #ubuntu-motu may be better.
[19:01] <m8ram> thx, will check it
[19:10] <m8ram> james_w: ubuntu-motu is specific for ubuntu, do you have an idea where I can get some directions on how to become an upstream developer as well?
[19:12] <andrea-bs> m8ram: you should contact the upstream developers
[19:13] <m8ram> andrea-bs: that's exactly the problem: I'd like to work on/help with the abcde package but the upstream developer (who is also the debian maintainer) appears to have abandoned the project
[19:13] <andrea-bs> m8ram: did you try to contact him?
[19:14] <m8ram> andrea-bs: I have sent him an email several months ago requesting him where to send feature requests but got no reply, this afternoon I sent an email to mia@qa-debian.com to see if he is considered MIA or not
[19:15] <m8ram> andrea-bs: in any case the package has not been touched since sarge, even though various patches are available in the debian bug tracker system
[19:16] <m8ram> for ubuntu the maintainer is set to Ubuntu MOTU developers
[19:19] <andrea-bs> m8ram: the project has a Mailing List, did you know?
[19:20] <m8ram> andrea-bs: haven't found it yet
[19:20] <m8ram> andrea-bs: the SVN repos gives an error 503 service unavailable...
[19:20] <jdong> yay svnadmin recover.
[19:21] <andrea-bs> m8ram: I'm reading the readme from the ubuntu package
[19:22] <m8ram> andrea-bs: the archives of the old mailing list appear to have been taken offline
[19:22] <m8ram> andrea-bs: and the readme itself says that the new list was at that time not activley used
[19:23] <m8ram> andrea-bs: last message on this list is from March 2007
[19:24] <m8ram> andrea-bs: and it's in spanish...
[19:24] <andrea-bs> m8ram: I can see that it's developed in debian, did you try to contact debian developers?
[19:25] <m8ram> andrea-bs: not yet, other than the mail I sent to mia@qa-debian.org (not .com as I wrote earlier)
[19:26] <m8ram> andrea-bs: but the maintainer at debian is also Jesus Climent, the upstream author
[19:27] <andrea-bs> m8ram: I know, but this package is not maintained in ubuntu so I think you will have more chances with debian devs
[19:28] <m8ram> andrea-bs: ok, do you know where I could find them?  I couldn't find an IRC channel for debian devel yet (I'm not really used to IRC)
[19:29] <andrea-bs> m8ram: maybe #debian, but I'm not sure
[19:29] <m8ram> andrea-bs:and debian-qa was really quiet earlier today
[19:29] <m8ram> andrea-bs: thx, will check
[19:45] <pochu> m8ram: irc.debian.org, #debian-devel
[19:45] <m8ram> pochu: thx, will check it
[20:12] <m8ram> thx: the original author appears to be on #debian-devel, hasn't responded yet but at least I'm at the right place
[21:55] <pwnguin> is there a wiki for summer of code ideas yet?
[22:30] <Amaranth> pwnguin: brainstorm.ubuntu.com
[22:34] <pwnguin> the fun part about brainstorm is taking what they say and interpreting what they really want / need
[22:42] <pwnguin> it's a bit like those GIMP / GNOME makeovers where the mockup is just a photoshop of what they want, with no considerations for what's feasible.
[23:32] <TheMuso> Wow! Nice that the config file prompting is now via debconf. Slick. :)
[23:57] <TheMuso> 5~/c