[03:11] <nalioth> !member | michalski
[03:11] <ubotu> michalski: Want to become an Ubuntu member? Look at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember
[03:12] <michalski> wow thanks
[10:45] <sordith> how would somebody go about making a complaint up about a certain Ubuntu Developer, when he failed to respect the Community Guidelines in multiple points?
[10:52] <ompaul> hardly an IRC issue
[10:52] <sordith> how would you know without having heard anything about the issue yet?
[10:52] <ompaul> well then saying developer is masking the issue
[10:53] <sordith> the behaviour was observed here on IRC
[10:53] <ompaul> have you logs?
[10:53] <sordith> if they are required, then i can serve logs
[10:54] <ompaul> you will be required to back up your case
[10:54] <ompaul> now was it an irc issue?
[10:54] <sordith> thats not the main problem for me at the moment, how to backup my claims
[10:54] <ompaul> in an official ubuntu channel?
[10:54] <sordith> i am at my first step to find out who to address
[10:55] <ompaul> define what the problem as you saw it was
[10:55] <ompaul> where it happened
[10:55] <ompaul> I really can't point you in any direction until you do that
[10:55] <sordith> the situation started on #ubuntu-uk, from there i was taken to #ubuntu-ops, where the situation was escalating further, then i was taken to this channel here, where the climax of abuse happened
[10:56] <ompaul> and what was your contribution to this
[10:56] <sordith> my contribution was to play the role of a black sheep for a heavily disturbeb anti social personality
[10:56] <sordith> s/disturbed
[10:57] <ompaul> was this on Friday by any chance?
[10:58] <sordith> i need to check when that was
[10:58] <ompaul> please do so
[10:59] <sordith> Feb 20th, around 10 GMT
[11:00] <ompaul> and give me the nick of the wronged party as you saw
[11:00] <ompaul> it
[11:01] <sordith> the cause was popey, the helpers were Tm_T and Daviey
[11:02] <ompaul> no
[11:02] <ompaul> that is not what I asked
[11:02] <ompaul> what I asked was what was the nick of the party that was considered wronged?
[11:03] <sordith> can you express "considered wronged" in a more simplified way so non-native speakers understand what you are asking for?
[11:04] <ompaul> the person who was on the wrong end of the stick -- you are here making claims and further to that -- you are
[11:05] <ompaul> suggesting they have been wronged
[11:06] <ompaul> ohh well - failure to communicate and I have not got all day
[11:08] <sordith> i am not sure if i get your point, but i was target of popey who felt the need to escalate a situation more and more, and Tm_T and Daviey were helping him to make me feel really bad
[11:08] <ompaul> that kind of text reads in a really familiar way
[11:09] <sordith> i cant control your intuition, nor do i want to
[11:09] <sordith> i am still on my first step to find out who to address with my problem
[11:09] <ompaul> if you are indeed the party they assumed you were you are prohibited from entering freenode
[11:09] <ompaul> if not then fine
[11:09] <sordith> ompaul: shall we ask christel if she has time to fix your problem?
[11:09] <ompaul> hahahaha
[11:10] <sordith> whats funny about that?
[11:10] <sordith> i talked to christel a few times, she knows who i am. and i am sure she can help you with your current problem
[11:11] <sordith> in case you feel a need to blow the current situatioon out of proportion you make my problem much more complex, because i will have to address your behaviour also
[11:11] <ompaul> in what context
[11:11] <ompaul> I find it funny that you refer to staff - I am not staff and have not been for a long time
[11:11] <sordith> feel free to read the backlog since we started to talk while i enjoy a cigarette in my kitchen
[11:14] <ompaul> right so - I am out of here - message time
[11:16] <sordith> try to keep simple problems simple. if your mental state does not allow currently, take a break
[11:17] <sordith> let freenode staff worry whether a person is allowed to visit the network
[11:17] <sordith> now, who do i address with my problem, please?
[11:52] <sordith> thats no problem if i need to take some more time and patience
[11:52] <sordith> i am a nice person actually, if the other involved people manage to communicate in a non-violent manner
[12:52]  * sordith is still waiting patiently
[12:55] <sordith> at the moment my situation feels like the responsible people here think something like "to best we can do is to ignore the problem of this dude"
[12:55] <sordith> that is indeed better than trying to make me go away by brute force
[12:56] <sordith> if popey had style and a stable personality, he could easily fix the problem he caused, by telling me something simple like "sorry for causing harm, lets move on"
[12:58] <sordith> i expect other people to help to keep simple problems simple, so i really want to try to live that by own example
[13:01] <popey> as I said at the time, take it up with whoever you need to, irc council or community council
[13:01] <sordith> popey: why do you want me to escalate the situation between you and me?
[13:02] <popey> There is no issue between you and me as far as I am aware, but if you have an issue with me then I can only suggest you take it up with the appropriate prople.
[13:02] <popey> *people
[13:02] <sordith> popey: the source of our problem is obviously, that you are convinced about the fact that i should not be allowed to visit this chat network. is that so?
[13:02] <popey> Whether that be the Ubuntu IRC council, Freenode or the Ubuntu Community council.
[13:03] <popey> one moment, brb
[13:03] <sordith> take your time
[13:05] <sordith> popey: i joined #ubuntu-uk and you could have simple asked me to leave, because you dont like me for whatever reason. instead you used a ban and told me to go to #ubuntu-ops, where i was treated bad and banned with the comment to go to #ubuntu-irc where i was treated bad and banned
[13:06] <sordith> the reason seems to be that i used to have beef with christel many years ago, which was escalated by multiple people do some massive IRC drama
[13:07] <sordith> there is 2 questions: what benefit do you personally have, when i constantly fall from the network?
[13:07] <sordith> and why is it so hard to keep problems on the smallest possible level?
[13:08] <sordith> what i did to christel was not right. but you cant imagine how often i paid for that already
[13:09] <sordith> so when that is sorted out that i was punished often enough for some private conflict that happened years ago, the next problem to sort out is, that my personality obviously causes discomfort
[13:10] <sordith> there is nothing wrong by telling me, that i am not liked
[13:10] <popey> you are not liked
[13:10] <sordith> there is also nothing wrong by giving me instructions how to do better
[13:10] <sordith> the complaint from me is how that is communicated
[13:11] <sordith> the less violence is involved, the easier i can accept it
[13:12] <sordith> my main problem is, that i unwillingly play the black sheep for a few people who are pretty close to anti social personality disorder
[13:12] <sordith> and i cant fix that all alone
[13:12] <popey> you could start by not insulting me every time I see you
[13:12] <sordith> how did i insult you, as that was not my plan, please?
[13:12] <popey> 12:56:57 < sordith> if popey had style and a stable personality, he could easily fix the problem he caused, by telling me something simple like "sorry for causing harm, lets  move on"
[13:13] <sordith> how is that insulting to you?
[13:13] <popey> calling me unstable
[13:13] <sordith> i admit that can hurt feelings of a sensible and sensitive person, but i dont find that insulting
[13:13] <sordith> cause i did not call you unstable
[13:13] <popey> you implied it
[13:14] <popey> I'm not going to waste my sunday afternoon arguing that
[13:14] <sordith> i made that a condition, that if you are stable and if you have style, then you manage to fix a problem that you caused
[13:14] <popey> Anyway, I have already said what I think you should do
[13:15] <sordith> and i dont plan to go harassing you all sunday about small, not important details. all i wanted is to solve the dispute between you and me
[13:15] <popey> take it to the irc council, cc or freenode
[13:15] <sordith> but i also dont plan to esclate this problem further by writing mails or contacting other people
[13:15] <popey> stalemate then
[13:15] <sordith> so you are not willing to keep small problems as small as possible?
[13:16] <popey> I am not willing to waste my sunday afternoon discussing something which could be resolved by a 3rd party
[13:16] <sordith> i am quite sorry then, because the Code of Conduct that you signed as Ubuntu Developer should enable you, to keep problems that _you_ cause simple and small, without unnecessary escalation
[13:17] <popey> this is a necessary escalation IMO
[13:17] <sordith> and its quite scary that i have to lecture you on your guidelines
[13:17] <popey> you dont
[13:17] <popey> you think you do
[13:17] <popey> but you dont
[13:19] <sordith> i just need to move on and go at risk that you do again, what you did on #ubuntu-uk with me, running me then through #ubuntu-ops and #ubuntu-irc to get more and more beatings, only to give you the feeling you helped to punish somebody for something you dont even know?
[13:20] <popey> I apologise for telling you to go to #ubuntu-ops, that was merely a mistake of mine, not realising which channel dealt with these issues
[13:20] <popey> I should have directed you to #ubuntu-irc it seems
[13:20] <sordith> accepted, and i appologize for all the mistakes i did which affected you directly or indirectly
[13:20] <sordith> you can be sure that i will keep working on my personality problems
[13:21] <sordith> you can also be sure that i will do my best to be an advocate of the Freenode Policy and the Freenode Guidelines
[13:33] <sordith> have a good day you all
[14:27] <ompaul> anyone with ops here?
[14:28] <PriceChild> I do yes.
[14:29] <ompaul> PriceChild, see -ops
[14:29] <ompaul> PriceChild,  actually now just mute the other one
[14:29] <ompaul> please
[14:31] <ompaul> PriceChild, you now have two live bots here - please mute ubotu
[14:31] <ompaul> !test
[14:31] <ubotwo> Fbiled.
[14:32] <ompaul> thanks
[14:32] <ompaul> PriceChild, now you know - we will never know :)
[21:03] <zack> hello there
[21:03] <zack> anyone there
[21:03] <zack> ok then
[21:13] <nalioth> wow a whole 30 seconds
[21:16] <Seeker`> nalioth: thats a long time for some people
[21:19] <tonyyarusso> I IRC at relativistic speeds!
[21:20] <no0tic> :)
[21:25] <no0tic> he probably was on a spaceship