[00:00] really? [00:00] there is another wifi router that has lights a blinking. [00:00] yeah. [00:00] so when you plug your client in the 3com it works [00:00] there is another 3com [00:00] not identical. no hard plugs in the back [00:00] anyway, the second 3 com is flashing fine, which leads me to believe that IT is connecting the clients to the server [00:01] this is a strange network i am trying to picture in my mind but i follow [00:01] yeah. sorry. it is weird. [00:01] there is a blue box up there [00:01] well here is a suggestion to just do a test real quick [00:01] with LOTS of connections [00:01] and everything is connected to it I guess. [00:01] oh wait, sorry, there's a black box too. ugh. [00:02] anyway... yeah? test? [00:02] most likely your hard NIC connection you are on right now which is on the net as we speak is running DHCP [00:02] so it got an IP from the router/switch/whatever you plugged it into [00:02] ok [00:02] and most likely the server is also plugged into it [00:03] so is that the IP in the PM you sent me (ifconfig) [00:03] 192.168.0.150 [00:03] its another client connected via wifi to the LAN [00:03] yes. 150 [00:03] so 192.168.0.150 is you and you are talking to me right now [00:03] nah. I am something else [00:03] OS X has ifconfig hopefully [00:03] yes i think so [00:04] tell me your ifconfig in pm [00:04] dont past in channel it might kick you [00:04] paste* [00:04] i know. [00:04] =) [00:04] my ifconfig is weird on my os x [00:05] did oyu get that? [00:06] macbook:~ y$ ifconfig [00:06] . [00:06] it didnt give you anything? [00:06] maybe it got cut off [00:06] msg me [00:06] my client is stupid [00:48] hi all. is there some way to access thin-client error logs? I'm trying to trace the cause of a failed client startup. [07:11] hi all. just wondering. [07:11] i saw on the -doc wiki pages that theres meant to be no large scale changes to doco made. does this mean its to late to try and ammend the install guide for edubuntu? [07:13] mr kgoetz sir ... greetings and my opinion [07:14] if the changes will make the users' lives easier, and are signinficant, i will help you make a plan to get them in [07:14] if they are not just signinininificant, but are actually significant even, then doubly so [07:14] sir RichEd mr , good to see you again [07:16] i'll see what i can manage re doco then. no promice unfortunately - work is keeping me fairly busy [08:03] arvo :) home again [08:27] kgoetz, what we can do tho is do the work post-release, and then I'll also help [08:28] it's time we get that on the track again [08:28] we had problems with documentation since edubuntu started to exist [08:30] Kamping_Kaiser, ^_^ [08:50] pygi, yeah. perhaps i'll learn to manage my time a little better and fit in actual edu work after release *heh* [09:07] i find the new installer quite strange [09:18] i should really start using bzr as the RCS it is (and commit stuff after changing) [10:01] it would seem the alpha6 cds are broken [10:01] 'no kernel modules were found' :| [10:09] or am i not meant to use it as a 'install on boot' type cd? hm. [10:18] theres a sort of add on thing in userland [10:18] not sure how to use it though [10:36] think i've got it at least partly sussed [10:37] i'll do some work to try and rewrite the handbook tonight [11:47] RichEd, btw ... http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/classmate/images/8.04/ [11:47] highvoltage, ^^^ [11:47] i'd appreciate some installer testing [11:48] ogra, you around? just a quick question about accessing a remote floppy drive to write to [11:48] * ogra_cmpc doesnt have any floppies [11:48] ie, accessing from a thin client, writing to the same thin client's floppy [11:48] ogra_cmpc: url loaded this morning in browser ... image file already in my download tool ... been trying to make space for 600MB target file [11:48] the floppy is installed here right /tmp/.username-ltspfs/floppy0? [11:48] sblaneav wrote the whole floppy part in ltspfs, he seems to be the only ltsp dev having floppies at all [11:49] hmm, I need to install images to floppies, and the only floppy drives are on my thin clients [11:49] it should create that mountpoint on the server, yes [11:49] seems silly to install linux just to do that [11:49] oh [11:49] ogra_cmpc: unrelated ... Kamping_Kaiser / kgoetz had some queries about time left to amend install instructions for the manual [11:50] he is keen to give some input / do some changes / additions [11:50] why dont you just boot a client with SCREEN_02=shell and do it in the client console then with direcdt access [11:50] Nubae, you will need to dd the image to the device, dd wont work overthe net, it needs direct access to the hw anyway [11:50] ogra_cmpc: scroll back and read when you have a chance and comment here or to me and karl by email [11:50] ta [11:51] will do during that day [11:51] * ogra_cmpc just tries to get awake after staying up until 5am last night [11:51] ah, thanks, didnt think of that [11:51] ogra_cmpc: i guessed you were either sleep deprived, or still busy with an extended monday :) [11:52] yeah [11:52] that's why i left you in peace so far today [11:52] but kudos on the 8.04 image [11:52] need to get the daily builds running, i want to be done with the automation before beta [11:53] ogra_cmpc, ah, thanks, I've been meaning to ask you for that link again [11:54] * highvoltage initiallises download [11:54] RichEd, oh, btw, any news from jill wrt artwork .... time is getting tight, i fear we'll have to release with 7.10 artwork if we dont get anything this week [11:54] i'll poke her today ... in a manner of speaking [11:54] ok [11:55] i presume no actual action from the flurry of talk on the main art-work thread [11:55] hrmm, at least a fresh wallpaper would be nice ... [11:56] but given the beuty of the hardy one in ubuntu we have no big chances anyway [11:56] and a slightly less angy red ;) [11:56] *BEAUTY [11:56] oops [11:56] damed caps [11:56] Kamping_Kaiser, angry ? [11:57] ogra_cmpc, map caps to another control. works a treat [11:57] thats christmas red :) [11:57] ogra_cmpc, really? i find it 'temper reducing' red :) [11:58] well, its only the window borders anyway :) [11:58] yeah [11:58] and apparently ubuntu followed our orange in the gtk theme with hardy [11:59] i noticed it was a bit orangy - it converted quite hapily into edubuntu though [12:00] hmm, I'll have to go get a 1GB usb disk [12:00] does the edubuntu expantion cd work with kubuntu, or just ubuntu? [12:00] Kamping_Kaiser, noetworkless will only work with ubuntu [12:00] *networkless [12:00] ogra_cmpc, thanks for that [12:01] *notes* [12:01] but with working network you can install it anywhere [12:01] the packages on the CD only depend on ubuntu desktop atm ... [12:01] so you will miss libs on kde [12:02] i was just making notes for a rewrite of the install instructions, so i thought i'd ask about that [12:03] * ogra_cmpc scratches his head ... [12:03] i have two identical classmates ... both were installed from the new image last night .... [12:03] on both i installed htop after install [12:04] if i boot them both and run a bare desktop one uses 120M and the other one uses 204 [12:04] can I do anything but restart the server when this happens in my chroot: umount /proc [12:04] umount: /proc: device is busy [12:04] thats... bizzare [12:04] * ogra_cmpc doesnt understand how thats possible [12:05] Nubae, type: mount [12:05] it should give you a full path [12:05] unmount the full path, not only /proc [12:06] thanks that worked [12:39] bleh. i broke my docbook again [13:41] who do i ping about shipit.edubuntu.org ? in two lines it uses "Edubuntu" then "EdUbuntu", and i think the latter needs fixing :) [13:42] i think mailing shipit@ubuntu.com would help, not sure there is something in LP to file bugs though [13:43] i'll do that. thanks [13:50] ogra, is the addon cd supposed to have d-i on it? [13:51] no, but gfxboot ... there is a bug open [13:51] i have to build a custom screen for that without menu [13:51] * Kamping_Kaiser goes to find out what gfxboot is [13:52] the cd bootscreen with the installer menu [13:52] i'm assuming that your meant to boot up ubuntu then install edubuntu from in there, not as a bootup thing? [13:53] you asked about d-i on the addon cd [13:53] not about ubuntu :) [13:53] yeah i did [13:54] the only way i worked out to use the addon cd was load ubuntu then install edubuntu from in there [13:55] Kamping_Kaiser: cc me in that shipit test ... we need to chat tomorrow at the weekly meeting about knock on effects of the name changes [13:55] ta [13:58] hm. meeting [13:58] RichEd, do you have an @ubuntu address? [14:01] yes richard@ [14:01] what time is the meeting? [14:01] ta [14:01] tomorrow is 12h00 UTC i think [14:02] bugger. [14:02] i'm probably at SA AUUG still (but i will try to make it) [14:07] night all. [14:07] i'll probably not look at edubuntu today (which it is for me currently), but perhaps in a few days after this === RichEd-1 is now known as RichEd [16:49] hi [17:47] 48% [++++++++++++=====> ] 435,876,407 26.21K/s ETA 7:41:23 (*sigh*) [17:50] * LaserJock sends highvoltage some real internet [17:51] :) [17:51] how are things in LaserWorld? [17:52] uggg [17:52] grading lab reports [17:53] ah. well, at least you get to play with lasers. [17:53] yeah [17:53] our new one is sweet [17:53] very quiet [17:54] seen this? http://www.geekologie.com/2008/03/hercules_laser_sounds_powerful.php [17:54] that would really look nice in my bedroom. [17:57] geeze, that is hawwwt [17:59] 20 billion trillion watts. I kind of find it hard to believe, but I'm not qualified to argue with such numbers :) [17:59] i mean, 300 terrawatts [18:00] I think my laser is 200 megawatts [18:00] LaserJock, there is a hardy classmate image btw [18:00] I saw something in -devel about that ;-) [18:00] I'll have to grab it and give it a go [18:00] yeah [18:00] ogra_cmpc_: mine is coming down slowly but surely, about halfway now [18:01] its a real installer now [18:01] ogra_cmpc_: it will be done by the morning [18:01] LaserJock: wow, that's still a lot of energy [18:01] ogra_cmpc_: btw, does the installer enable swap by any chance? [18:02] highvoltage: it is [18:02] heh, no [18:02] and I stuck my finger in it the other day [18:02] made a loud snap [18:02] i dont want to be sued for trashing flashdisks within a week of operation [18:02] highvoltage, you cant swap to flash [18:02] at least if you want to keep it alive for a while [18:03] flash has limited amounts of write operations before it dies [18:03] ogra_cmpc_: hmm, ok. I swap to flash quite often. I think that they last longer than people give them credit for, but then again, I don't want you to be sued either, so it's best to play it safe :) [18:03] so do hard disks. [18:03] well, thats a1:100000 ratio [18:04] flash devices dies way earlier [18:04] i used to swap to my one flash disk for more than a year. it's a pity I lost it, I would've liked to know how long it would've lasted [18:04] *die [18:04] ogra_cmpc_: are there plans to increase memory, or to decrease memory usage? [18:04] ogra_cmpc_: or should I first check the new image before I ask more questions? :) [18:04] try the image [18:04] ogra: does Jane know about your auntie-silber folder? ;-) [18:04] ok [18:04] LaserJock: oO [18:05] LaserJock, not sure [18:05] but it was like a fairytale session [18:05] so i had to take pics :) [18:09] ogra_cmpc_: maybe this idea is just as crazy as swapping to flash... [18:09] ogra_cmpc_: but would it be viable for the classmates to find a "swap server" over the network with avahi or something and swap to there like in LTSP? [18:10] hmm, ok already see the flaw in it [18:10] ewww [18:10] if they're out of wireless range their machines would die :-/ [18:10] technically it would be possible though :) [18:10] LaserJock: well, slow swap would at least be better than now swap on low memory systems [18:10] *no [18:10] well [18:10] yeah, you dont want network swapping via lan [18:10] err [18:10] wlan [18:11] *nod* [18:11] swap coming in-and-out is worse than no swap [18:11] and to be honest i dont see a real ne4ed for swap [18:11] as I go around the house ;-) [18:11] ogra_cmpc_: heh, I see your fingers haven't gotten smaller yet :) [18:11] i'm currently running ff with three tabs open, xchat with about 20 channels and three gnome terminals here [18:11] ff3? [18:12] that's quite a bit [18:12] no kde applications though? [18:12] ff3 [18:12] htop shows i'm using 173M [18:12] ooh, htop FTW! [18:12] still more than 60 free :) [18:13] ok, that's a big improvement on the old image then. [18:13] g-a-i is usable (with unuverse disabled at least) [18:13] *universe [18:13] heck of a lot better than Windows [18:13] I considered making a spec for making htop the default in ubuntu, but I don't think the old gaurd would ever want to approve it. [18:13] I could have pretty much only 1 major app open at a time [18:13] sadly it needs more than 100M for the package cache if you use universe [18:14] ahh [18:14] LaserJock: besides that, how well does windows run from flash? [18:14] ogra_cmpc_: shew, I never realised that [18:14] highvoltage: surprisingly well [18:14] highvoltage, no, htop is surely nothing for having it by default ... but it should be in main (and probably shipped on teh cd) [18:14] it's responsive, apps load fairly well [18:14] just run out of memory easily [18:15] ogra_cmpc_: *nod* [18:15] I couldn't even install acrobat reader because it ran out of memory during install ;-) [18:15] ogra_cmpc_: but doesn't ubuntu have a policy to not have two of the same type of tools in main? [18:15] win is a bit sparse if it comes to apps [18:15] :) [18:15] ogra_cmpc_: or has that been changed? [18:15] it has been ignored for a while [18:15] LaserJock: hah! [18:15] highvoltage: for some value of "same" [18:15] else xfce would never have made it to main :) [18:15] ogra_cmpc_: ok, I always thought they could be a bit more leniant on that rule [18:16] ogra_cmpc_: for one, I really think dnsmasq should be in main [18:16] the goal is to minimize duplicates [18:16] the whole support system is changing though [18:16] ogra_cmpc_: but I'll get that fixed when I'm core-dev one day :) [18:16] the infrastructure is able to build images from universe ... so xubuntu moved out of main [18:16] that will result in more drops from main [18:17] but next it'll all go away :-) [18:17] probably [18:17] what do you mean, LaserJock? [18:17] ah, the seperation between main and universe? [18:17] yes [18:17] cool, one big main like in debian. [18:18] ?? [18:18] then we'll freeze up more cmpc's :) [18:18] debian has separation as we do [18:18] or you, at least. I can't take credit for something like that yet. [18:18] well, their main and universe is combined at least [18:18] not a Main/Universe separation [18:18] they just seperate on licencing afaik [18:18] a Main/Multiverse type separation [18:18] right [18:18] yep [18:19] fedora also had that kind of seperation, also joined it together a while back. [18:21] dang it, Hardy's going to fast [18:22] * ogra_cmpc_ curses intel once more for not providing a reset button [18:30] that's not Intel-unique. notbooks generally don't have them :) [18:32] ogra_cmpc_: get my pm? [18:32] yes ... i always forget you cant read me [18:33] its the right url [18:33] danke [18:33] :) [18:33] I was at my grandfather's house over the weekend [18:34] and he had a DVD of flying over Germany shot from a helicopter [18:34] training your german ? [18:34] they had some really awesome shots of some of the castles [18:34] * ogra_cmpc_ woders why all people alwas learn their german from war movies ... [18:34] I think it was mostly Bavaria that I saw [18:34] hahaha [18:35] scotties favorite is das boot [18:35] it's what we've got [18:35] heh [18:35] and he can quote accentfree from that [18:35] yes, I can do a pretty good "English with German accent" ;-) [18:36] yeah its awkward to come from a country thats known for its killing devices and poison mixing skills [18:36] not so great with the "German with an English accent" [18:36] I think of the great philosophers and scientists [18:36] about 150 years ago, yes [18:37] there's still a lot of science [18:37] inded [18:37] lots of people here go to German for post-doctoral work [18:37] *Germany [18:37] ogra_cmpc_: if it's any consolation, here in South Africa we also *really* love your cars :) [18:38] but the times where my country brounght up people like einstein kant or goethe are definately over [18:38] (and general German design) [18:38] well, an ogra is better than nothing. [18:38] *duck* [18:38] lol [18:38] yeah, we got ogra! [18:38] and some say dholbach but he's really french so he doesn't count ;-) [18:39] really!? [18:39] i'm just a slacker that found the easiest way to slack paid ... [18:39] LaserJock: don't forget asac [18:39] highvoltage: no, I just tease him about being so huggy [18:39] LaserJock: aaah :) [18:39] hehe [18:39] german people aren't supposed to be so huggy and smiley :-) [18:40] that were our grandparents :) [18:41] yeah [18:41] there's a german lady that is my grandmother's sister-in-law [18:41] its like the myth that we all eat kraut all the time :) [18:41] and she's always at my grandfather's house [18:41] LaserJock: it's a good thing he is german, otherwise http://photos.jonathancarter.co.za/album/udsparis2006/800_PICT0136.jpg.html would've been even *more* inacurate! [18:42] ugg, kraut [18:42] that stuff smells so awful [18:42] I'll take the sausage, but leave the kraut [18:42] I didn't know what kraut was, so I asked a bot: [18:42] highvoltage: Kraut n : offensive terms for a person of German descent [syn: {Kraut}, {Krauthead}, {Boche}, {Jerry}, {Hun}] [18:43] is that right? [18:43] heh [18:43] yeah [18:44] but we're talking about sauerkraut [18:44] aah [18:44] yeah [18:46] highvoltage: sauerkraut n : shredded cabbage fermented in brine [18:47] I've been meaning to blog about this... but about two weeks ago, I bought a mac mini [18:47] played a bit with OSX too. [18:47] I had such high expectations for OSX, I must say that it's given me a new appreciation for Gnome [18:48] pfft [18:48] you gotta get used to it [18:48] there are often people who complain that Gnome is too simplistic, and doesn't have enough features. [18:48] but OSX is way more extreme like that. [18:48] I'm a big OS X fan, except for the app install/maintenance [18:48] it feels too simplistic even for a gnome user like me :) [18:49] oh yes, the app install part is absolutely horrible. [18:49] I'd say even worse than windows [18:49] don't know if I'd *quite* go there, but it's interesting [18:49] I'm still not sure what I do wrong, but sometimes when I drag an application to Applications, it seems to install it fine from the installtion image, but then after a reboot, the installation image is gone again, and so is the app [18:50] weird, I've never had that I don't think [18:50] OSX is snappy at least. it has a real low-latency feel to it. [18:50] and I like the hardware, the remote that comes with it is also quite nice to have. [18:51] I think being not-used-to-a-BSD-like-system also annoyed me a bit [18:51] I'm terribly used to be able to do things like cat /proc/filesystems [18:51] (and also to systems that support a wide variety of filesystems, since I'm on that topic) [18:51] but... I've installed Ubuntu on it, and it flies [18:52] you could always run KDE on it if you don't like the DE ;-) [18:52] I'm tempted to try that. [18:52] I'd even like to install Windows somewhere just to see how KDE would run on it. [18:53] but that's quite low on my priority list. :) [18:56] I gotta re-figure out squeak's license [18:57] never looked at it. which license is it under? or is it their own license? [18:57] the VM that is. first we had it as the squeak license, then the upstream guys say it's GPL, now I think it's some weird GPL+ [18:57] GPL+? [18:58] GPL + added "stuff" [18:58] I find that terribly wierd. [18:58] there are 3 different licensing files in the source [18:58] I've seen one guy saying that all his stuff is GPL, with a custom exception that it may not be used for commercial derivative work. [18:59] heh, yeah [18:59] that kind of defeats the purpose of using a GPL license in the first place. [19:00] LaserJock: is it licensed used for different pieces of source, or is it all multi-licensed? [19:00] perhaps [19:01] "(If you received this file as part of a Squeak distribution then please stop here and refer instead to the copyright notices in the individual files and to those in the file `LICENSE'.)" [19:02] that's the top of the COPYRIGHT file that has the GPL [19:02] now I [19:02] I'm not really sure what he means by "Squeak distribution" [19:02] but I'm guessing that's when you ship a squeak image along with the VM since the squeak image is licensed under the Squeak license [19:03] we have them broken up, so I'm guessing we don't have to worry about that [19:04] yeah [19:04] however [19:04] this is the COPYING file in the same dir: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5588/ [19:06] wow, what an awfully written license [19:06] (no offence to squeak) [19:07] hmm, it seems to say that if you derive, you must replace the license with a GPLv2 license [19:08] (line 68 and down) [19:08] oh, sorry, I misunderstood [19:08] or did I? [19:08] I think that's about it [19:08] it's a bit ambiguous for me. [19:09] it's quite interesting then. [19:09] I've read that his licensing was to make it so that it could be both GPL'd and be included in squeak (which is not GPL-compatible) [19:09] so I think this is a try at a dual-license [19:09] a non-gpl'd piece of software, that can have gpl derivatives. [19:10] why do squeak license under their own license? business purposes? [19:11] it was Apple actually [19:11] the code was mostly written by Apple [19:11] they're now working on making it MIT [19:13] aah [19:15] in the mean time I have to deal with this :-) [19:16] gotta run to teach [19:17] cya all [19:17] bye LaserJock. good luck with the teacjing :) [19:17] woops [20:22] how do i know which directory to provide for the "filename" of the dhcpd.conf for etherboot? [20:23] i ran ltsp-update-kernels and it told me `/opt/ltsp/i386/boot/vmlinuz' -> `/var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/vmlinuz' [20:27] ogra_cmpc: hi, did you poke pitti/slangasek about italc's FFe ? I have updated my patch to apply on 1.0.7 [20:27] ogra_cmpc: the UI seems almost the same, I just noticed some icons change and the Userlist panel removed [20:28] ogra_cmpc: I also found a MMX related bug on amd64 which will be fixed very soon (I basically just need to catch Tobias on Jabber :)) [20:28] ogra_cmpc: everything else works "just fine", no more warning/error message in the console, UI seems faster and I haven't been able to trigger a VNC bug (yet ...) [21:31] ogra: I think we may want to try to update gcompris [21:31] do you think it'd be too late for a FFe? [22:52] !seen elisboa [22:52] Sorry, I don't know anything about seen elisboa - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi