[00:00] <sudobash> really?
[00:00] <subsume> there is another wifi router that has lights a blinking.
[00:00] <subsume> yeah.
[00:00] <sudobash> so when you plug your client in the 3com it works
[00:00] <subsume> there is another 3com
[00:00] <subsume> not identical. no hard plugs in the back
[00:00] <subsume> anyway, the second 3 com is flashing fine, which leads me to believe that IT is connecting the clients to the server
[00:01] <sudobash> this is a strange network i am trying to picture in my mind but i follow
[00:01] <subsume> yeah. sorry. it is weird.
[00:01] <subsume> there is a blue box up there
[00:01] <sudobash> well here is a suggestion to just do a test real quick
[00:01] <subsume> with LOTS of connections
[00:01] <subsume> and everything is connected to it I guess.
[00:01] <subsume> oh wait, sorry, there's a black box too. ugh.
[00:02] <subsume> anyway... yeah? test?
[00:02] <sudobash> most likely your hard NIC connection you are on right now which is on the net as we speak is running DHCP
[00:02] <sudobash> so it got an IP from the router/switch/whatever you plugged it into
[00:02] <subsume> ok
[00:02] <subsume> and most likely the server is also plugged into it
[00:03] <sudobash> so is that the IP in the PM you sent me (ifconfig)
[00:03] <sudobash> 192.168.0.150
[00:03] <subsume> its another client connected via wifi to the LAN
[00:03] <subsume> yes. 150
[00:03] <sudobash> so 192.168.0.150 is you and you are talking to me right now
[00:03] <subsume> nah. I am something else
[00:03] <subsume> OS X has ifconfig hopefully
[00:03] <sudobash> yes i think so
[00:04] <sudobash> tell me your ifconfig in pm
[00:04] <sudobash> dont past in channel it might kick you
[00:04] <sudobash> paste*
[00:04] <subsume> i know.
[00:04] <subsume> =)
[00:04] <subsume> my ifconfig is weird on my os x
[00:05] <subsume> did oyu get that?
 macbook:~ y$ ifconfig
 .
[00:06] <sudobash> it didnt give you anything?
[00:06] <sudobash> maybe it got cut off
[00:06] <subsume> msg me
[00:06] <subsume> my client is stupid
[00:48] <subsume> hi all. is there some way to access thin-client error logs? I'm trying to trace the cause of a failed client startup.
[07:11] <kgoetz> hi all. just wondering.
[07:11] <kgoetz> i saw on the -doc wiki pages that theres meant to be no large scale changes to doco made. does this mean its to late to try and ammend the install guide for edubuntu?
[07:13] <RichEd> mr kgoetz sir ... greetings and my opinion
[07:14] <RichEd> if the changes will make the users' lives easier, and are signinficant, i will help you make a plan to get them in
[07:14] <RichEd> if they are not just signinininificant,  but are actually significant even, then doubly so
[07:14] <kgoetz> sir RichEd mr , good to see you again
[07:16] <kgoetz> i'll see what i can manage re doco then. no promice unfortunately - work is keeping me fairly busy
[08:03] <Kamping_Kaiser> arvo :) home again
[08:27] <pygi> kgoetz, what we can do tho is do the work post-release, and then I'll also help
[08:28] <pygi> it's time we get that on the track again
[08:28] <pygi> we had problems with documentation since edubuntu started to exist
[08:30] <pygi> Kamping_Kaiser, ^_^
[08:50] <Kamping_Kaiser> pygi, yeah. perhaps i'll learn to manage my time a little better and fit in actual edu work after release *heh*
[09:07] <Kamping_Kaiser> i find the new installer quite strange
[09:18] <Kamping_Kaiser> i should really start using bzr as the RCS it is (and commit stuff after changing)
[10:01] <Kamping_Kaiser> it would seem the alpha6 cds are broken
[10:01] <Kamping_Kaiser> 'no kernel modules were found' :|
[10:09] <Kamping_Kaiser> or am i not meant to use it as a 'install on boot' type cd? hm.
[10:18] <Kamping_Kaiser> theres a sort of add on thing in userland
[10:18] <Kamping_Kaiser> not sure how to use it though
[10:36] <Kamping_Kaiser> think i've got it at least partly sussed
[10:37] <Kamping_Kaiser> i'll do some work to try and rewrite the handbook tonight
[11:47] <ogra_cmpc> RichEd, btw ...  http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/classmate/images/8.04/
[11:47] <ogra_cmpc> highvoltage, ^^^
[11:47] <ogra_cmpc> i'd appreciate some installer testing
[11:48] <Nubae> ogra, you around? just a quick question about accessing a remote floppy drive to write to
[11:48]  * ogra_cmpc doesnt have any floppies 
[11:48] <Nubae> ie, accessing from a thin client, writing to the same thin client's floppy
[11:48] <RichEd> ogra_cmpc: url loaded this morning in browser ... image file already in my download tool ... been trying to make space for 600MB target file
[11:48] <Nubae> the floppy is installed here right /tmp/.username-ltspfs/floppy0?
[11:48] <ogra_cmpc> sblaneav wrote the whole floppy part in ltspfs, he seems to be the only ltsp dev having floppies at all
[11:49] <Nubae> hmm, I need to install images to floppies, and the only floppy drives are on my thin clients
[11:49] <ogra_cmpc> it should create that mountpoint on the server, yes
[11:49] <Nubae> seems silly to install linux just to do that
[11:49] <ogra_cmpc> oh
[11:49] <RichEd> ogra_cmpc: unrelated ... Kamping_Kaiser / kgoetz had some queries about time left to amend install instructions for the manual
[11:50] <RichEd> he is keen to give some input / do some changes / additions
[11:50] <ogra_cmpc> why dont you just boot a client with SCREEN_02=shell and do it in the client console then with direcdt access
[11:50] <ogra_cmpc> Nubae, you will need to dd the image to the device, dd wont work overthe net, it needs direct access to the hw anyway
[11:50] <RichEd> ogra_cmpc: scroll back and read when you have a chance and comment here or to me and karl by email
[11:50] <RichEd> ta
[11:51] <ogra_cmpc> will do during that day
[11:51]  * ogra_cmpc just tries to get awake after staying up until 5am last night
[11:51] <Nubae> ah, thanks, didnt think of that
[11:51] <RichEd> ogra_cmpc: i guessed you were either sleep deprived, or still busy with an extended monday :)
[11:52] <ogra_cmpc> yeah
[11:52] <RichEd> that's why i left you in peace so far today
[11:52] <RichEd> but kudos on the 8.04 image
[11:52] <ogra_cmpc> need to get the daily builds running, i want to be done with the automation before beta
[11:53] <highvoltage> ogra_cmpc, ah, thanks, I've been meaning to ask you for that link again
[11:54]  * highvoltage initiallises download
[11:54] <ogra_cmpc> RichEd, oh, btw, any news from jill wrt artwork .... time is getting tight, i fear we'll have to release with 7.10 artwork if we dont get anything this week
[11:54] <RichEd> i'll poke her today ... in a manner of speaking
[11:54] <ogra_cmpc> ok
[11:55] <RichEd> i presume no actual action from the flurry of talk on the main art-work thread
[11:55] <ogra_cmpc> hrmm, at least a fresh wallpaper would be nice ...
[11:56] <ogra_cmpc> but given the beuty of the hardy one in ubuntu we have no big chances anyway
[11:56] <Kamping_Kaiser> and a slightly less angy red ;)
[11:56] <ogra_cmpc> *BEAUTY
[11:56] <ogra_cmpc> oops
[11:56] <ogra_cmpc> damed caps
[11:56] <ogra_cmpc> Kamping_Kaiser, angry ?
[11:57] <Kamping_Kaiser> ogra_cmpc, map caps to another control. works a treat
[11:57] <ogra_cmpc> thats christmas red :)
[11:57] <Kamping_Kaiser> ogra_cmpc, really? i find it 'temper reducing' red :)
[11:58] <ogra_cmpc> well, its only the window borders anyway :)
[11:58] <Kamping_Kaiser> yeah
[11:58] <ogra_cmpc> and apparently ubuntu followed our orange in the gtk theme with hardy
[11:59] <Kamping_Kaiser> i noticed it was a bit orangy - it converted quite hapily into edubuntu though
[12:00] <highvoltage> hmm, I'll have to go get a 1GB usb disk
[12:00] <Kamping_Kaiser> does the edubuntu expantion cd work with kubuntu, or just ubuntu?
[12:00] <ogra_cmpc> Kamping_Kaiser, noetworkless will only work with ubuntu
[12:00] <ogra_cmpc> *networkless
[12:00] <Kamping_Kaiser> ogra_cmpc, thanks for that
[12:01] <Kamping_Kaiser> *notes*
[12:01] <ogra_cmpc> but with working network you can install it anywhere
[12:01] <ogra_cmpc> the packages on the CD only depend on ubuntu desktop atm ...
[12:01] <ogra_cmpc> so you will miss libs on kde
[12:02] <Kamping_Kaiser> i was just making notes for a rewrite of the install instructions, so i thought i'd ask about that
[12:03]  * ogra_cmpc scratches his head ...
[12:03] <ogra_cmpc> i have two identical classmates ... both were installed from the new image last night ....
[12:03] <ogra_cmpc> on both i installed htop after install
[12:04] <ogra_cmpc> if i boot them both and run a bare desktop one uses 120M and the other one uses 204
[12:04] <Nubae> can I do anything but restart the server when this happens in my chroot: umount /proc
[12:04] <Nubae> umount: /proc: device is busy
[12:04] <Kamping_Kaiser> thats... bizzare
[12:04]  * ogra_cmpc doesnt understand how thats possible
[12:05] <ogra_cmpc> Nubae, type: mount
[12:05] <ogra_cmpc> it should give you a full path
[12:05] <ogra_cmpc> unmount the full path, not only /proc
[12:06] <Nubae> thanks that worked
[12:39] <Kamping_Kaiser> bleh. i broke my docbook again
[13:41] <Kamping_Kaiser> who do i ping about shipit.edubuntu.org ? in two lines it uses "Edubuntu" then "EdUbuntu", and i think the latter needs fixing :)
[13:42] <ogra> i think mailing shipit@ubuntu.com would help, not sure there is something in LP to file bugs though
[13:43] <Kamping_Kaiser> i'll do that. thanks
[13:50] <Kamping_Kaiser> ogra, is the addon cd supposed to have d-i on it?
[13:51] <ogra> no, but gfxboot ... there is a bug open
[13:51] <ogra> i have to build a custom screen for that without menu
[13:51]  * Kamping_Kaiser goes to find out what gfxboot is
[13:52] <ogra> the cd bootscreen with the installer menu
[13:52] <Kamping_Kaiser> i'm assuming that your meant to boot up ubuntu then install edubuntu from in there, not as a bootup thing?
[13:53] <ogra> you asked about d-i on the addon cd
[13:53] <ogra> not about ubuntu :)
[13:53] <Kamping_Kaiser> yeah i did
[13:54] <Kamping_Kaiser> the only way i worked out to use the addon cd was load ubuntu then install edubuntu from in there
[13:55] <RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: cc me in that shipit test ... we need to chat tomorrow at the weekly meeting about knock on effects of the name changes
[13:55] <RichEd> ta
[13:58] <Kamping_Kaiser> hm. meeting
[13:58] <Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd, do you have an @ubuntu address?
[14:01] <RichEd> yes richard@
[14:01] <Kamping_Kaiser> what time is the meeting?
[14:01] <RichEd> ta
[14:01] <RichEd> tomorrow is 12h00 UTC i think
[14:02] <Kamping_Kaiser> bugger.
[14:02] <Kamping_Kaiser> i'm probably at SA AUUG still (but i will try to make it)
[14:07] <Kamping_Kaiser> night all.
[14:07] <Kamping_Kaiser> i'll probably not look at edubuntu today (which it is for me currently), but perhaps in a few days after this
[16:49] <Sir_Remoz> hi
[17:47] <highvoltage> 48% [++++++++++++[17:50]  * LaserJock sends highvoltage some real internet
[17:51] <highvoltage> :)
[17:51] <highvoltage> how are things in LaserWorld?
[17:52] <LaserJock> uggg
[17:52] <LaserJock> grading lab reports
[17:53] <highvoltage> ah. well, at least you get to play with lasers.
[17:53] <LaserJock> yeah
[17:53] <LaserJock> our new one is sweet
[17:53] <LaserJock> very quiet
[17:54] <highvoltage> seen this? http://www.geekologie.com/2008/03/hercules_laser_sounds_powerful.php
[17:54] <highvoltage> that would really look nice in my bedroom.
[17:57] <LaserJock> geeze, that is hawwwt
[17:59] <highvoltage> 20 billion trillion watts. I kind of find it hard to believe, but I'm not qualified to argue with such numbers :)
[17:59] <highvoltage> i mean, 300 terrawatts
[18:00] <LaserJock> I think my laser is 200 megawatts
[18:00] <ogra_cmpc_> LaserJock, there is a hardy classmate image btw
[18:00] <LaserJock> I saw something in -devel about that ;-)
[18:00] <LaserJock> I'll have to grab it and give it a go
[18:00] <ogra_cmpc_> yeah
[18:00] <highvoltage> ogra_cmpc_: mine is coming down slowly but surely, about halfway now
[18:01] <ogra_cmpc_> its a real installer now
[18:01] <highvoltage> ogra_cmpc_: it will be done by the morning
[18:01] <highvoltage> LaserJock: wow, that's still a lot of energy
[18:01] <highvoltage> ogra_cmpc_: btw, does the installer enable swap by any chance?
[18:02] <LaserJock> highvoltage: it is
[18:02] <ogra_cmpc_> heh, no
[18:02] <LaserJock> and I stuck my finger in it the other day
[18:02] <LaserJock> made a loud snap
[18:02] <ogra_cmpc_> i dont want to be sued for trashing flashdisks within a week of operation
[18:02] <ogra_cmpc_> highvoltage, you cant swap to flash
[18:02] <ogra_cmpc_> at least if you want to keep it alive for a while
[18:03] <ogra_cmpc_> flash has limited amounts of write operations before it dies
[18:03] <highvoltage> ogra_cmpc_: hmm, ok. I swap to flash quite often. I think that they last longer than people give them credit for, but then again, I don't want you to be sued either, so it's best to play it safe :)
[18:03] <highvoltage> so do hard disks.
[18:03] <ogra_cmpc_> well, thats a1:100000 ratio
[18:04] <ogra_cmpc_> flash devices dies way earlier
[18:04] <highvoltage> i used to swap to my one flash disk for more than a year. it's a pity I lost it, I would've liked to know how long it would've lasted
[18:04] <ogra_cmpc_> *die
[18:04] <highvoltage> ogra_cmpc_: are there plans to increase memory, or to decrease memory usage?
[18:04] <highvoltage> ogra_cmpc_: or should I first check the new image before I ask more questions? :)
[18:04] <ogra_cmpc_> try the image
[18:04] <LaserJock> ogra: does Jane know about your auntie-silber folder? ;-)
[18:04] <highvoltage> ok
[18:04] <highvoltage> LaserJock: oO
[18:05] <ogra_cmpc_> LaserJock, not sure
[18:05] <ogra_cmpc_> but it was like a fairytale session
[18:05] <ogra_cmpc_> so i had to take pics :)
[18:09] <highvoltage> ogra_cmpc_: maybe this idea is just as crazy as swapping to flash...
[18:09] <highvoltage> ogra_cmpc_: but would it be viable for the classmates to find a "swap server" over the network with avahi or something and swap to there like in LTSP?
[18:10] <highvoltage> hmm, ok already see the flaw in it
[18:10] <LaserJock> ewww
[18:10] <highvoltage> if they're out of wireless range their machines would die :-/
[18:10] <ogra_cmpc_> technically it would be possible though :)
[18:10] <highvoltage> LaserJock: well, slow swap would at least be better than now swap on low memory systems
[18:10] <highvoltage> *no
[18:10] <LaserJock> well
[18:10] <ogra_cmpc_> yeah, you dont want network swapping via lan
[18:10] <ogra_cmpc_> err
[18:10] <ogra_cmpc_> wlan
[18:11] <highvoltage> *nod*
[18:11] <LaserJock> swap coming in-and-out is worse than no swap
[18:11] <ogra_cmpc_> and to be honest i dont see a real ne4ed for swap
[18:11] <LaserJock> as I go around the house ;-)
[18:11] <highvoltage> ogra_cmpc_: heh, I see your fingers haven't gotten smaller yet :)
[18:11] <ogra_cmpc_> i'm currently running ff with three tabs open, xchat with about 20 channels and three gnome terminals here
[18:11] <LaserJock> ff3?
[18:12] <LaserJock> that's quite a bit
[18:12] <highvoltage> no kde applications though?
[18:12] <ogra_cmpc_> ff3
[18:12] <ogra_cmpc_> htop shows i'm using 173M
[18:12] <highvoltage> ooh, htop FTW!
[18:12] <ogra_cmpc_> still more than 60 free :)
[18:13] <highvoltage> ok, that's a big improvement on the old image then.
[18:13] <ogra_cmpc_> g-a-i is usable (with unuverse disabled at least)
[18:13] <ogra_cmpc_> *universe
[18:13] <LaserJock> heck of a lot better than Windows
[18:13] <highvoltage> I considered making a spec for making htop the default in ubuntu, but I don't think the old gaurd would ever want to approve it.
[18:13] <LaserJock> I could have pretty much only 1 major app open at a time
[18:13] <ogra_cmpc_> sadly it needs more than 100M for the package cache if you use universe
[18:14] <LaserJock> ahh
[18:14] <highvoltage> LaserJock: besides that, how well does windows run from flash?
[18:14] <highvoltage> ogra_cmpc_: shew, I never realised that
[18:14] <LaserJock> highvoltage: surprisingly well
[18:14] <ogra_cmpc_> highvoltage, no, htop is surely nothing for having it by default ... but it should be in main (and probably shipped on teh cd)
[18:14] <LaserJock> it's responsive, apps load fairly well
[18:14] <LaserJock> just run out of memory easily
[18:15] <highvoltage> ogra_cmpc_: *nod*
[18:15] <LaserJock> I couldn't even install acrobat reader because it ran out of memory during install ;-)
[18:15] <highvoltage> ogra_cmpc_: but doesn't ubuntu have a policy to not have two of the same type of tools in main?
[18:15] <ogra_cmpc_> win is a bit sparse if it comes to apps
[18:15] <ogra_cmpc_> :)
[18:15] <highvoltage> ogra_cmpc_: or has that been changed?
[18:15] <ogra_cmpc_> it has been ignored for a while
[18:15] <highvoltage> LaserJock: hah!
[18:15] <LaserJock> highvoltage: for some value of "same"
[18:15] <ogra_cmpc_> else xfce would never have made it to main :)
[18:15] <highvoltage> ogra_cmpc_: ok, I always thought they could be a bit more leniant on that rule
[18:16] <highvoltage> ogra_cmpc_: for one, I really think dnsmasq should be in main
[18:16] <LaserJock> the goal is to minimize duplicates
[18:16] <ogra_cmpc_> the whole support system is changing though
[18:16] <highvoltage> ogra_cmpc_: but I'll get that fixed when I'm core-dev one day :)
[18:16] <ogra_cmpc_> the infrastructure is able to build images from universe ... so xubuntu moved out of main
[18:16] <ogra_cmpc_> that will result in more drops from main
[18:17] <LaserJock> but next it'll all go away :-)
[18:17] <ogra_cmpc_> probably
[18:17] <highvoltage> what do you mean, LaserJock?
[18:17] <highvoltage> ah, the seperation between main and universe?
[18:17] <LaserJock> yes
[18:17] <highvoltage> cool, one big main like in debian.
[18:18] <ogra_cmpc_> ??
[18:18] <highvoltage> then we'll freeze up more cmpc's :)
[18:18] <ogra_cmpc_> debian has separation as we do
[18:18] <highvoltage> or you, at least. I can't take credit for something like that yet.
[18:18] <highvoltage> well, their main and universe is combined at least
[18:18] <LaserJock> not a Main/Universe separation
[18:18] <highvoltage> they just seperate on licencing afaik
[18:18] <LaserJock> a Main/Multiverse type separation
[18:18] <ogra_cmpc_> right
[18:18] <highvoltage> yep
[18:19] <highvoltage> fedora also had that kind of seperation, also joined it together a while back.
[18:21] <LaserJock> dang it, Hardy's going to fast
[18:22]  * ogra_cmpc_ curses intel once more for not providing a reset button
[18:30] <highvoltage> that's not Intel-unique. notbooks generally don't have them :)
[18:32] <LaserJock> ogra_cmpc_: get my pm?
[18:32] <ogra_cmpc_> yes ... i always forget you cant read me
[18:33] <ogra_cmpc_> its the right url
[18:33] <LaserJock> danke
[18:33] <ogra_cmpc_> :)
[18:33] <LaserJock> I was at my grandfather's house over the weekend
[18:34] <LaserJock> and he had a DVD of flying over Germany shot from a helicopter
[18:34] <ogra_cmpc_> training your german ?
[18:34] <LaserJock> they had some really awesome shots of some of the castles
[18:34]  * ogra_cmpc_ woders why all people alwas learn their german from war movies ...
[18:34] <LaserJock> I think it was mostly Bavaria that I saw
[18:34] <LaserJock> hahaha
[18:35] <ogra_cmpc_> scotties favorite is das boot
[18:35] <LaserJock> it's what we've got
[18:35] <LaserJock> heh
[18:35] <ogra_cmpc_> and he can quote accentfree from that
[18:35] <LaserJock> yes, I can do a pretty good "English with German accent" ;-)
[18:36] <ogra_cmpc_> yeah its awkward to come from a country thats known for its killing devices and poison mixing skills
[18:36] <LaserJock> not so great with the "German with an English accent"
[18:36] <LaserJock> I think of the great philosophers and scientists
[18:36] <ogra_cmpc_> about 150 years ago, yes
[18:37] <LaserJock> there's still a lot of science
[18:37] <ogra_cmpc_> inded
[18:37] <LaserJock> lots of people here go to German for post-doctoral work
[18:37] <LaserJock> *Germany
[18:37] <highvoltage> ogra_cmpc_: if it's any consolation, here in South Africa we also *really* love your cars :)
[18:38] <ogra_cmpc_> but the times where my country brounght up people like einstein kant or goethe are definately over
[18:38] <highvoltage> (and general German design)
[18:38] <highvoltage> well, an ogra is better than nothing.
[18:38] <highvoltage> *duck*
[18:38] <ogra_cmpc_> lol
[18:38] <LaserJock> yeah, we got ogra!
[18:38] <LaserJock> and some say dholbach but he's really french so he doesn't count ;-)
[18:39] <highvoltage> really!?
[18:39] <ogra_cmpc_> i'm just a slacker that found the easiest way to slack paid ...
[18:39] <highvoltage> LaserJock: don't forget asac
[18:39] <LaserJock> highvoltage: no, I just tease him about being so huggy
[18:39] <highvoltage> LaserJock: aaah :)
[18:39] <ogra_cmpc_> hehe
[18:39] <LaserJock> german people aren't supposed to be so huggy and smiley :-)
[18:40] <ogra_cmpc_> that were our grandparents :)
[18:41] <LaserJock> yeah
[18:41] <LaserJock> there's a german lady that is my grandmother's sister-in-law
[18:41] <ogra_cmpc_> its like the myth that we all eat kraut all the time :)
[18:41] <LaserJock> and she's always at my grandfather's house
[18:41] <highvoltage> LaserJock: it's a good thing he is german, otherwise http://photos.jonathancarter.co.za/album/udsparis2006/800_PICT0136.jpg.html would've been even *more* inacurate!
[18:42] <LaserJock> ugg, kraut
[18:42] <LaserJock> that stuff smells so awful
[18:42] <LaserJock> I'll take the sausage, but leave the kraut
[18:42] <highvoltage> I didn't know what kraut was, so I asked a bot:
 highvoltage: Kraut n : offensive terms for a person of German descent [syn: {Kraut}, {Krauthead}, {Boche}, {Jerry}, {Hun}]
[18:43] <highvoltage> is that right?
[18:43] <LaserJock> heh
[18:43] <LaserJock> yeah
[18:44] <LaserJock> but we're talking about sauerkraut
[18:44] <highvoltage> aah
[18:44] <ogra_cmpc_> yeah
 highvoltage: sauerkraut n : shredded cabbage fermented in brine
[18:47] <highvoltage> I've been meaning to blog about this... but about two weeks ago, I bought a mac mini
[18:47] <highvoltage> played a bit with OSX too.
[18:47] <highvoltage> I had such high expectations for OSX, I must say that it's given me a new appreciation for Gnome
[18:48] <LaserJock> pfft
[18:48] <LaserJock> you gotta get used to it
[18:48] <highvoltage> there are often people who complain that Gnome is too simplistic, and doesn't have enough features.
[18:48] <highvoltage> but OSX is way more extreme like that.
[18:48] <LaserJock> I'm a big OS X fan, except for the app install/maintenance
[18:48] <highvoltage> it feels too simplistic even for a gnome user like me :)
[18:49] <highvoltage> oh yes, the app install part is absolutely horrible.
[18:49] <highvoltage> I'd say even worse than windows
[18:49] <LaserJock> don't know if I'd *quite* go there, but it's interesting
[18:49] <highvoltage> I'm still not sure what I do wrong, but sometimes when I drag an application to Applications, it seems to install it fine from the installtion image, but then after a reboot, the installation image is gone again, and so is the app
[18:50] <LaserJock> weird, I've never had that I don't think
[18:50] <highvoltage> OSX is snappy at least. it has a real low-latency feel to it.
[18:50] <highvoltage> and I like the hardware, the remote that comes with it is also quite nice to have.
[18:51] <highvoltage> I think being not-used-to-a-BSD-like-system also annoyed me a bit
[18:51] <highvoltage> I'm terribly used to be able to do things like cat /proc/filesystems
[18:51] <highvoltage> (and also to systems that support a wide variety of filesystems, since I'm on that topic)
[18:51] <highvoltage> but... I've installed Ubuntu on it, and it flies
[18:52] <LaserJock> you could always run KDE on it if you don't like the DE ;-)
[18:52] <highvoltage> I'm tempted to try that.
[18:52] <highvoltage> I'd even like to install Windows somewhere just to see how KDE would run on it.
[18:53] <highvoltage> but that's quite low on my priority list. :)
[18:56] <LaserJock> I gotta re-figure out squeak's license
[18:57] <highvoltage> never looked at it. which license is it under? or is it their own license?
[18:57] <LaserJock> the VM that is. first we had it as the squeak license, then the upstream guys say it's GPL, now I think it's some weird GPL+
[18:57] <highvoltage> GPL+?
[18:58] <LaserJock> GPL + added "stuff"
[18:58] <highvoltage> I find that terribly wierd.
[18:58] <LaserJock> there are 3 different licensing files in the source
[18:58] <highvoltage> I've seen one guy saying that all his stuff is GPL, with a custom exception that it may not be used for commercial derivative work.
[18:59] <LaserJock> heh, yeah
[18:59] <highvoltage> that kind of defeats the purpose of using a GPL license in the first place.
[19:00] <highvoltage> LaserJock: is it licensed used for different pieces of source, or is it all multi-licensed?
[19:00] <LaserJock> perhaps
[19:01] <LaserJock> "(If you received this file as part of a Squeak distribution then  please stop here and refer instead to the copyright notices in the individual files and to those in the file `LICENSE'.)"
[19:02] <LaserJock> that's the top of the COPYRIGHT file that has the GPL
[19:02] <LaserJock> now I
[19:02] <LaserJock> I'm not really sure what he means by "Squeak distribution"
[19:02] <LaserJock> but I'm guessing that's when you ship a squeak image along with the VM since the squeak image is licensed under the Squeak license
[19:03] <LaserJock> we have them broken up, so I'm guessing we don't have to worry about that
[19:04] <highvoltage> yeah
[19:04] <LaserJock> however
[19:04] <LaserJock> this is the COPYING file in the same dir: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5588/
[19:06] <highvoltage> wow, what an awfully written license
[19:06] <highvoltage> (no offence to squeak)
[19:07] <highvoltage> hmm, it seems to say that if you derive, you must replace the license with a GPLv2 license
[19:08] <highvoltage> (line 68 and down)
[19:08] <highvoltage> oh, sorry, I misunderstood
[19:08] <highvoltage> or did I?
[19:08] <LaserJock> I think that's about it
[19:08] <highvoltage> it's a bit ambiguous for me.
[19:09] <highvoltage> it's quite interesting then.
[19:09] <LaserJock> I've read that his licensing was to make it so that it could be both GPL'd and be included in squeak (which is not GPL-compatible)
[19:09] <LaserJock> so I think this is a try at a dual-license
[19:09] <highvoltage> a non-gpl'd piece of software, that can have gpl derivatives.
[19:10] <highvoltage> why do squeak license under their own license? business purposes?
[19:11] <LaserJock> it was Apple actually
[19:11] <LaserJock> the code was mostly written by Apple
[19:11] <LaserJock> they're now working on making it MIT
[19:13] <highvoltage> aah
[19:15] <LaserJock> in the mean time I have to deal with this :-)
[19:16] <LaserJock> gotta run to teach
[19:17] <LaserJock> cya all
[19:17] <highvoltage> bye LaserJock. good luck with the teacjing :)
[19:17] <highvoltage> woops
[20:22] <Briareos_> how do i know which directory to provide for the "filename" of the dhcpd.conf for etherboot?
[20:23] <Briareos_> i ran ltsp-update-kernels and it told me `/opt/ltsp/i386/boot/vmlinuz' -> `/var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/vmlinuz'
[20:27] <stgraber> ogra_cmpc: hi, did you poke pitti/slangasek about italc's FFe ? I have updated my patch to apply on 1.0.7
[20:27] <stgraber> ogra_cmpc: the UI seems almost the same, I just noticed some icons change and the Userlist panel removed
[20:28] <stgraber> ogra_cmpc: I also found a MMX related bug on amd64 which will be fixed very soon (I basically just need to catch Tobias on Jabber :))
[20:28] <stgraber> ogra_cmpc: everything else works "just fine", no more warning/error message in the console, UI seems faster and I haven't been able to trigger a VNC bug (yet ...)
[21:31] <LaserJock> ogra: I think we may want to try to update gcompris
[21:31] <LaserJock> do you think it'd be too late for a FFe?
[22:52] <slashdotfx> !seen elisboa
[22:52] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about seen elisboa - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi