[00:37] In #ubuntu, soundray said: ubot3, no, Vista is the best incentive to learn Linux, says Pelo [00:51] Anyone else see evidence of what pelo is reporting? [00:52] No idea. [00:53] I see 2 people join/part quite quickly, but nothing worrying [00:53] /clones returns nothing to be alarmed about either [01:46] Hmm.. There are a lot of root_*s in #kubuntu (again) [01:46] Pici: i'll kick them (again) [01:47] :( [01:58] hmm... [01:59] i will have to take down the bots for the whole night. the "new" server's PSU is making a grinding noise, and that's not good to left on during the night [02:00] ouchy [02:00] Hobbsee: twas like the most unfortunate server upgrade evah [02:00] heh [02:01] Hobbsee: I just want you to know, you are the reason I had to install a 32bit os ;) [02:02] nickrud: oh? [02:02] lightning in thunderbird, couldn't find one for 64bit [02:02] ahhhh [02:03] nickrud: it compiles on 64bit [02:04] nalioth: you know I hate compiling ;) [02:04] Hobbsee: If its worth anything (which I suspect it isn't :P), I agree with your email about IRSEEK [02:05] what email? [02:05] Seeker`: feel free to add it [02:05] nalioth: ubuntu-irc ML [02:06] nalioth: you were right. she'll never be happy [02:23] hmm, either my mail is slow, or the list doesn't like it [02:24] why? It's just window dressing, removing irseek [02:24] nickrud: what do you mean? [02:25] the logs are still taken, and as Hobbsee says in the mail, there's nothing keeping someone from wgetting them and doing whatever [02:26] nickrud: Do you agree that the IRSEEK logging is superfluous? [02:26] Seeker`: superfluous yes. As tonyyarruso replied, should it be forbidden? [02:27] what's to stop them from just running xchat and logging into channels they want to copy? With all the idlers, who'd know? [02:27] as my reply states (if it ever arrives), if noone actively wants it there, and it is superfluous, what harm is there in removing them? [02:28] I'm just saying the issue way overblown. [02:28] People have expressed a dislike for these bots, and, as far as I am aware, everyone else doesn't really care whether they are there or not. IMO it would be easier to remove the redundant bots than to convince the people concerned about privacy that the bots probably aren't doing any harm [02:29] If you dont upset anyone by removing them [02:29] what's to stop them just to grab ubuntulog's logs and do whatever they want? So, why forbid them to log directly? [02:30] if ubuntulogs' logs are there and are perfectly good, why not just tell them to use that directly? [02:30] no0tic: absolutely nothing. [02:31] And then the people who are expecting some form of privacy are totally misled. Seems cleaner to acknowledge they are using the logs by letting them be present themselves. [02:31] indeed [02:32] It should be in the topic of the logged channels that they are logged, but that is a different matter [02:32] could our logs be released under a certain license? [02:32] then refusing other bots would make some sense [02:33] Seeker`: it's in the guidelines, mentioned from the topic... [02:33] no0tic: no one could actually police it [02:33] Hobbsee: I thought it might have been, but I'm too tired to go looking :) [02:34] along with all the rest of the useful stuff that shoudl be in the topic, but doesn't fit. [02:34] heh [02:34] how many users complained? [02:34] a few [02:34] most were in /query [02:35] a relevant percentage of 1200? [02:35] how many were incited? [02:35] I doubt that anyone will complain abotu the lack of IRSEEK bots. Surely if there is a solution that will make x users happy and 0 unhappy, that is the best option? [02:36] no0tic: define a "relevant percentage"? [02:36] 5/10% [02:36] 60/120 users, I think it's a good percentage [02:36] thats quite a lot [02:37] no0tic: what makes you think IRC logs are eligible for a license to begin with? [02:37] LjL, nothing, I'm only brainstorming to find out a possible solution [02:37] no0tic: The SU at my uni needs 100 signatures out of ~10,000 students to call an EGM [02:38] ok, let's take 1% [02:38] tbh, i've only heard one user complain about the irseek bots [02:39] i had more in query, but i dont' remember hwo they were now [02:39] anyway.. I think it could be dangerous to bend to few users complaining for something like that. Anyone here has logs of almost everything happens in #ubuntu* channels and anybody could do whatever they want with those [02:39] no0tic: agreed, but still. [02:40] no0tic: if anything, it's setting a precedent for anyone to bring a logging bot in there [02:40] which cna then be known-malicious [02:40] or a bot which logs, and does other things too [02:40] it is true, it only takes one person to bring up a valid point (not ready to call this one one, though) [02:41] what harm is done by removing the bots? [02:41] Seeker`: very little, i suspect [02:41] hm. Didn't I once hear of a 'no bot's' policy once? [02:41] nickrud: yeah, excluding official ubuntu cloaked ones [02:41] nickrud: no bots unless authorized, and these ones currently are. [02:43] are there effective methods to check whether a "user" is a bot or else? [02:43] * nickrud just hates being demagoged [02:43] Seeker`, Hobbsee: what harm is done by removing Google (after all, all the content is available somewhere else)? yet some harm is done. searchable logs, not limited to Ubuntu channels, in a central place, can be an asset. and remember that the "percentage" of people complaining about them is about the same percentage as the people who complain, uuuh, about just everything we do? [02:43] no0tic: turing test [02:44] LjL, and if he simply doesn't reply? [02:44] LjL: if you're doing that, it's spam, no? :) [02:44] no0tic: then you're screwed. [02:44] Hobbsee: hm? [02:45] no0tic: there are ways, yes [02:45] * nalioth will not share his methods [02:45] LjL: giving people turing tests [02:45] there are no ways [02:45] LjL: But all of the ubuntu logs are stored in 1, easily accessible place, then typing "ubuntu irc logs" will get them all of them [02:45] it doesn't reduce acessibility [02:45] nalioth, ok, I trust in your methods, don't want to know anything else [02:46] nalioth likes to insist there are, and i'm sure there *are* for most practical purposes (such as bots hanging in many channels, for instance, or little glitches in CTCP replies, or dubious hosts, etc) [02:46] but generally speaking, i really, really think there is no conceivable way to tell a bot from a user, aside from a turing test [02:46] * nickrud considers thumbsrcrews for nalioth [02:48] LjL: it may not be a "bot" per se, but a userless client and a cronjob that scps to a web enabled page [02:48] * Seeker` goes to bed, almost an hour after thinking "I'll just see what this 1 email is..." [02:49] s/.../before bed.../ [02:49] Seeker`, 'night [02:52] nalioth: so, you're telling me that if i have a perfectly normal client (and take care to make my so my idle time never gets ridiculous), not in an overly large amount of channels, and post some irc-related thing to some *other* machine (via scp or something), you can track that? [02:53] nalioth: has evil ways :P [02:53] LjL, let's suppose I have my logs in my public_html, no scp in between :) [02:55] no0tic: well in that case it doesn't take very much to spot them [02:55] LjL, rigth [02:58] LjL? [02:59] band4life? [03:05] ljl i was hoping to be allowed to return today [03:05] oh, i see. your nickname made me think you were banned for life and evading [03:06] must have been wrong [03:06] well im here to ask to get back in, and change my nick. [03:09] well look, tell you what [03:10] i find it important for my actions to be reviewed and make sure i'm not getting off the right track [03:10] so when you say [03:10] true, but from what I gathered at other channels my banning is not unheard of. Infact it is common. So if I am going to continue to be mistreated, I am going to report some of the ops. [03:10] perhaps you should go on and do that [03:15] LJL so what you are saying is that you are going to extend my ban? [03:16] extend? i don't think i said it *would* be lifted [03:16] i think i probably told you to come back in some days, and that was likely before you went up ranting in #freenode as well [03:36] is Hobbsee here? [03:36] emma: anything I might be able to help with instead? [03:36] No I'm afraid not. [03:39] I'll try to find her later. Take care. [03:46] * Hobbsee was busy. [03:46] patience, patience. [03:53] Hobbsee: she's still online if you want it... [03:55] tonyyarusso: not overly. [03:55] :) [04:23] chicken [04:23] nickrud: who, me? [04:23] nah ;) [04:53] We need to keep an eye on Zcat [04:54] eh, perhaps. lastlog looks pretty okay [04:55] He was giving detailed info on how to write a virus in linux earlier in ubuntu.. [04:56] A new user comes into the channel and is excited does not need to be greeted with petercoh7: the feeling wears off, you find out that ubuntu has bugs too and is just another OS :) [04:57] didn't see that first one [04:59] Several hours ago... [05:00] lol, well it is just another os [05:01] Maybe so, but you dont slap a new user that is excited about it.. THat is just rude [05:02] civility is welcomed here [05:03] I dont find that a very civil way to greet a new user [05:03] nope [05:04] After his virus discussions earlier today .. I think he needs to be watched [05:07] how about talking to him [05:07] catalyze and all that ? [05:08] Im too tired at this point.. It has been a long day... [05:08] Feel free... [05:10] I only logged back in to get my mail..... Just noticed him for the second time in one day.. Goodnight [05:12] zcat's been around for a long time, he's probably amenable [05:14] Probably just needs a nudge on things that are less than helpful methinks. The lines in between the two aforementioned things look like normal support, and valuable. [09:23] are there restrictions as to who can post on the ubuntu-irc mailing list? [10:22] not as far as I'm aware (possibly subscribers only though)( [10:22] but I dont think there are restrictions on who can subscribe [10:24] I have subscribed [10:24] I sent a post last ngith, and it seems to have disappeared [10:28] check your mail logs ? [10:31] It has appeared in the "sent" folder [10:32] * Seeker` -> uni [11:22] that's a disturbing message for a Finn [11:23] Myrtti: why? [11:23] uni means sleep [11:24] I actually stared that one for like a minute uncomprehending [11:24] uni means university for me :) Which is closely associated with sleep :P [11:24] yeah, I know, but still [11:25] needed some mental adjustment to get the real meaning [11:25] what is the finnish for uni? [11:26] yliopisto [11:27] hmm, not easy to remember [12:04] ubot3: whoami [12:04] Factoid whoami not found [12:37] @btlogin [12:38] hey Mez [12:38] AndrewB, gimme 10 mins or so, about to go for lunch [12:39] No problem [12:39] I can try and work out which are invalid [12:42] oh damn http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/bans.cgi is down [12:44] up here [12:44] AndrewB: remember sqlite is teh suck [12:45] sqlite does full-file locking [12:45] Sorry, bantracker has been shut down for anonymous users due to server load [12:45] it's ok I have a heft log [12:45] What ban are you looking for? [12:46] all of them ;) [12:46] o [12:47] I was going to say that my bantracker fork work-in-progress bot may have caught it if you were looking for something specifically [12:55] I'm getting an op error [12:55] args = ('database is locked',) [12:55] 08:45:00 sqlite does full-file locking [12:55] Wait and refresh [12:55] Or just mash refresh if you're impatient. [12:56] Sorry, bantracker has been shut down for anonymous users due to server load [12:56] * Pici shrugs [12:56] @btlogin [12:57] Can anyone here get ubot3 into new channels? or start ubotwo up? [12:57] LjL: around? ^ [12:57] nalioth: maybe if he is around [12:57] Pici: where do you want it? [12:58] * jussi01 has ubot5 if needed [12:58] jussi01: bugs, -devel, -motu [12:58] hmmm [13:01] http://tuxhacker.org/hosted/banlist.txt the few I have went through [13:01] Mez: ^^ [13:02] ?? [13:11] will the real ubot.* please stand up? [13:14] * Mez is thinking of making a bot that tracks bans, removes those of people who are klined, and pokes ops now and then to remind them to remove their bans [13:15] There are unused bans on your /mode. The /mode cleanup wizard can help you clean up your modes. Click this message to start the wizard. [13:16] :D [13:16] lmao [13:16] "would you like me to clean your bans for you" [13:16] I see you're trying to ban someone.... [13:16] "are you sure" [13:16] "I'm going to anyway" [13:16] Pici: ROFL [13:16] "fzzzt" [13:17] "This bot has encountered a general protection fault" [13:17] You have 26 days left to activate this bot. [13:17] guru meditating [13:55] !ping [14:16] Seeker`: FYI there is nothing in the moderation queue for the ML. [14:17] PriceChild: do you have bot control? ubotu is on the fritz again/still and ubot3 is missing in a few channels [14:19] ubot3: whoami [14:19] Factoid whoami not found [14:19] ubot3: part #ubuntu-ops [14:19] PriceChild: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :) [14:19] Pici: no [14:19] heh [14:20] PriceChild: well.. you're a bot, right? [14:20] PriceChild: Hmm. Shall I try sending it again, see what happens? [14:20] jdong: what are your instructions master? [14:20] Seeker`: PM me your email so I can check you're subscribed? [14:20] PriceChild: bug 196322 [14:20] I got one subscription today, and it was from the most amazing sounding name ever. [14:21] lol I have no idea if that actually exists [14:21] jdong: "All source packages" page empty when distribution doesn't use Launchpad for packaging [14:21] :D [14:22] In Soyuz [Confirmed/Undecided] [14:22] Pici: excuse me, but who is the bot here? [14:22] :P [14:22] * Pici shuts his bot [14:23] grrrr [14:23] I hate it when screen finds a line of irssi, and decides to duplicate it in every single channel I switch to. [14:23] I don't want Pici shutting his bot in all my super secret channels! [14:23] PriceChild: I know, it realyl confuses me [14:23] Not that I don't want Pici... [14:24] No offense taken [14:24] detatch and reatatch seems to fix it [14:24] * PriceChild huggles pici [14:28] oh, LjL woke up [14:28] yeah [14:29] should have put it in crontab sorry [14:29] since the server was turned on well before i woke up [14:29] init.d [14:29] init.d for a bot...? [14:30] I've got init.d for irssi [14:30] d'oh. [14:30] that's a bit... non-standard [14:30] pfft event.d [14:30] if I want irssi up on server boot and to grep some logs at server shutdown... [14:30] what about sources.list.d [14:31] Myrtti: grep logs at shutdown? [14:31] LjL: that relies on a buffer overflow in apt [14:31] * jussi01 schedules a cron to smack jdong over the head with a fish [14:31] jdong: sounds elegant [14:31] LjL: yes it would be beautiful [14:31] LjL: I've got a special use case for the logs [14:31] it's called "stalking" [14:31] Myrtti: as in, checking if you've been stalked, or stalking? [14:32] the first [14:32] that too definitely sounds like a cron's job... [14:32] :( [14:32] :? [14:32] i've got a special use case for logs too [14:33] and that is, building them up and treating them like a child [14:33] only to have a wildrunning ">" erase them all in a bunch of seconds [14:58] Mez: the bot you talk of we already have. Called dircbot contact philkc he may be able to assist. [14:59] though it doesnt do the kline thing [15:00] Pici: did you get your ubot* support? [15:01] yep [15:01] ubotwo and i are back [15:08] i guess nobody remembers their ubot3 access [15:10] I don't think I have any :/ [15:17] * Mez_ waits to see how long it is till Mez Excess floods again [15:17] when/if he reconnects [15:18] ubotwo: whoami [15:18] Amaranth: Amaranth [15:19] ubotwo: whoami [15:19] Mez_: I don't recognize you. [15:23] Mez_: Why the excess flood? [15:24] Seeker`: cause xchat is deciding to /who every channel I'm in at the same time [15:24] xchat-gnome? [15:24] nalioth: no, xchat [15:24] sounds broken. try ii [15:25] * nalioth runs [15:25] ii? [15:25] irssi? [15:26] * Mez_ sighs [15:26] I've said enough times that irssi isnt good for me [15:27] !amaranth [15:27] *taptap* Is this thing on? [15:27] ubot3 info ii [15:27] ii: minimalist FIFO and filesystem-based IRC client. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.1-3 (gutsy), package size 13 kB, installed size 80 kB [15:27] Seeker`: i don't stutter [15:27] * Mez hopes to survive long enough to join channels slowly [15:27] Mez_: ^^^ [15:28] although "minimalist" isn't the word i'd use to describe it [15:28] it _is_ however bulletproof [15:29] nalioth, *Shrugs* [15:33] eesh, what's with all the roots' in #k !? root__ root___ root____ root______ root_______ root________ root_________ [15:33] ugh, again? [15:33] nalioth [15:34] I'm beginning to think it's the same person/group as the vit_*'s we had a while ago [15:35] very similar IP to the one vit in #k now [15:37] stdin: we cleared them out yesterday too [15:37] +b *!?=root [15:37] then nal sent them on a ride on the train [15:37] w00t... I think I'm in the clear [15:38] yeah, don't kick them [15:39] what I did with vit was ban vit_*!@* so vit and vit_ could join, but root is a bit too general do do that [15:41] stdin, vit_ can't join if you ban vit_*!*@*, the * quantifier inclues the empty word [15:42] LjL: when the ban was in place there was vit and vit_, so it seemed to do what I wanted (if I'm remembering right) [15:42] stdin: again? [15:42] stdin: were probably already in the channel when you banned [15:43] You could ban *!?=root@*.dyn.dsl.cantv.net [15:43] LjL: no, I did a mass /remove before [15:43] Pici: well, not really, they had very different hostnames yesterday [15:43] or .cantv.net [15:44] That looks to be common between the few I just looked at [15:44] I only see them in #k too, and they never seem to speak (same as vit) [15:44] Mez: it's all your client settings [15:44] stdin: don't know then, maybe they changed nicks while in the channel - i can say for sure that * is a zero-or-more [15:44] these are zombies (root*) [15:44] Pici, yesterday they had numeric IPs as hosts [15:44] see? [15:44] like the one that just joined now [15:44] 190.* [15:44] they are programmed to maintain [15:45] LjL: They are numeric, I'm dnsing them [15:45] aah. [15:45] That should work right? [15:45] Pici: bans on hostname won't ban the IP [15:45] Pici: the vice versa is valid [15:45] although, uhm [15:45] LjL: fooey [15:45] i thought freenode always reversed-dns everyone [15:46] that should solve things (and get them on the freenode radar) [15:46] nalioth: put one _ maybe? [15:47] they have appeared with _ and __ appended [15:47] nalioth: yeah i mean root_*!*@* [15:47] just to avoid banning "root" [15:47] we could forward them to -read-topic or -proxy-users or -unregged [15:47] and others with nicks that begin like that [15:48] * nalioth would like to forward them to /dev/null, but would get in trouble if he did [15:48] nalioth: or -83, which i really should give another name [15:48] nalioth: still there's been some people before complaining that their nick was banned in some channels because it began with "root" - while having nothing to do with root. that's why i suggest root_*!*@* [15:50] how about root_?*!*@* then? that'll let root and root_ (LjL was right after all) [15:50] stdin: the ? is superflous in your suggestion [15:51] stdin, in this case we want root_ banned i think [15:51] and superfli too [15:51] nalioth: I just tested name_*!*@* and it bans name_ too [15:51] although, root_ has been idle for 8 hours [15:51] they *are* two different bans [15:51] but then there's normally a root and root_ on freenode somewhere anyway [15:52] yeah in fact root_ is online [15:52] but anyway, he's unlikely to join #kubuntu [15:52] on the other hand, "rootfoo" might [15:52] we don't support root accounts anyway :p [15:55] i've created #ubuntu-graylist (and redirected the old #ubuntu-83 there), please use it for any subnet bans [15:56] (which does *not* mean subnet bans should be taken lightly, mind. just, still better than plain banning) [15:59] heh, I knew I'd see vit_ soon after the root_'s went [15:59] ya... interesting [15:59] a 190.* [15:59] nalioth, look at that [15:59] AOL ? [16:00] no, cantv.net according to pici's dns [16:01] all seem to be CANTV Servicios, Venezuela [16:02] (vit_'s and root_'s) [16:12] and you should always ban the IP (it will ban the hostmask, too) [16:13] nalioth: the IPs vary widely though (190.* up to 201.* at least), while the hostmask - if it was there - wouldn't [16:13] but the hostmask is added depending on info [16:14] nalioth: but on info provided by the ISP, not the user itself...? [16:14] some trolls have skillz, and can manipulate their equipment/packets, LjL [16:45] nalioth: could we have ubot3 into #ubuntustudio ? [16:46] sure [16:49] thanks nalioth [18:12] bot is going down, changing PSU, should really be 10 minutes this time [18:32] Wasn't Sevvie supposed to come back like, yesterday? [18:32] or do I remember wrong [18:39] here, maybe it wasn't 10 minutes, but it wasn't that bad [18:39] now to just hope this €15 thing doesn't explode too early. or at least doesn't take the mobo with it when it does. [18:40] €15 for a PSU? [18:40] I cant imagine that would be stable [18:43] Seeker`: i'm not entirely comfortable either, and it's 370W (not that the server would take very much power but)... i thought i'd find a two-fans 420W one, which i bought in the same place little time ago for €30, but the only alternative they had available was a 570W (!) one for €40 [18:44] perhaps i could put the lousy one on my desktop... although my desktop definitely takes up more power [18:45] but i wouldn't cry so much if my desktop broke as if my server did [18:45] (well, unless the HD broke) [18:46] uhm, according to lm-sensors, the +12V, +5V and +3.3V are almost spot-on, for as much as that means [18:47] hmm [18:47] there is a supposedly +2.5V output that is really 0.35V [18:47] I probably wouldn't feel "comfortable" with a PSU < £20 or so [18:47] and the sensors don't give readings for the negative ones [18:47] my current one was ~£50 I think [18:48] could you not order a better one [18:48] and then keep the cheap one for emergencies if another one blows again [18:48] Seeker`: well, as i said, i'd much rather have bought the €30 one, so i guess my "comfortability" target is similar to yours. i wouldn't but a £50 one i think... i'm that cheap [18:49] * LjL wonders if the cheap 370W one could power his desktop at all [18:50] I need a new psu for my desktop, I have a paperclip wedged in the fan right now because it makes noise <.< [18:50] probably not, newegg gives >300W for something like my desktop [18:50] Pici: ... [18:51] Pici: you realize that's likely to blow up not only the PSU but mobo/etc too? [18:51] LjL: I need a new hardware anyway [18:51] LjL: My power supply is a Corsair 520w modular thing [18:51] Pici: the HD too [18:51] woo [18:51] Seeker`: what does modular mean [18:51] LjL: Its the windows computer [18:51] LjL: Its quiet, and I quite like corsair stuff - its reliable [18:51]