=== mwhudson_ is now known as mwhudson === mrevell is now known as mrevell-afk === salgado is now known as salgado-brb === salgado-brb is now known as salgado === mrevell-afk is now known as mrevell === cpro1 is now known as cprov === FreeNode is now known as herb === salgado is now known as salgado-brb === salgado-brb is now known as salgado === salgado is now known as salgado-lunch === salgado-lunch is now known as salgado === mwhudson_ is now known as mwhudson [17:54] I can haz meeting ?! [17:57] * mwhudson blinks [17:59] oi [18:00] we [18:01] me [18:01] em [18:01] Rinchen: ? [18:01] close [18:01] try again [18:01] kiko [18:01] hello hello [18:01] kikoooo [18:01] thumper, correct! [18:02] do me re fa so la ti do [18:02] * thumper wonders if he can summon kiko into other channels [18:02] #startmeeting [18:02] Meeting started at 18:02. The chair is kiko. [18:02] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [18:02] hosted by me, with spammy MootBot in my wake! [18:02] [TOPIC] Roll Call [18:02] New Topic: Roll Call [18:02] me [18:02] me [18:02] me [18:02] me [18:02] me [18:02] me [18:02] me [18:02] me [18:02] me [18:02] me [18:02] me [18:02] me [18:02] hooo is heeereee [18:02] Edwin is at pycon [18:02] me [18:02] me [18:02] me [18:02] me [18:02] me [18:03] me [18:03] me [18:03] me [18:03] me [18:03] me [18:03] me [18:03] me [18:04] * kiko pokes gmb_ and BjornT [18:04] me [18:04] one for being absent, one for being his manager! [18:04] stub!! [18:04] kiko!! [18:04] zat iz me [18:04] okay then [18:04] barry and maris are off to PyCon [18:04] BjornT, gmb_ absent? [18:04] yeah [18:04] poor pyconners [18:04] [TOPIC] Agenda [18:04] New Topic: Agenda [18:05] * Next meeting [18:05] * Actions from last meeting [18:05] * Oops report (Matsubara) [18:05] * Critical Bugs (Rinchen) [18:05] * Bug tags [18:05] * Operations report (mthaddon/herb) [18:05] * DBA report (stub) [18:05] * Sysadmin requests (Rinchen) [18:05] * New packages required (salgado) [18:05] * A top user-affecting issue (mrevell) [18:05] * Doc Team report (mrevell) [18:05] * canonical_url(..., view_name) (aaron, me) [18:05] * Blockers [18:05] me [18:05] Sorry, I suck. === gmb_ is now known as gmb [18:05] [TOPIC] Actionz from last meet1ng [18:05] New Topic: Actionz from last meet1ng [18:05] * salgado to investigate codebrowse and germinate inclusion in sourcecode [18:06] salgado rocks and rolls [18:06] done! [18:06] Thank you all for attending this week's Launchpad Developer Meeting. See the channel topic for the location of the logs. [18:06] hah! false alarm [18:06] [TOPIC] Oops report (Matsubara) [18:06] New Topic: Oops report (Matsubara) [18:06] Today's oops report is about bugs 201856, 201853, 161743, 200572 [18:06] Launchpad bug 201856 in launchpad-bazaar "OOPS recorded ssh'ing into bazaar.launchpad.net" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/201856 [18:06] Launchpad bug 201853 in launchpad-bazaar "OOPS recorded executing remote command" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/201853 [18:06] Launchpad bug 161743 in launchpad-bazaar "Traceback from Twisted while running codehosting acceptance tests" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/161743 [18:06] Bug 200572 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/200572 is private [18:06] thumper, can you find assignees for the lp-bzr ones? First two should not record oopses [18:06] or if they do, those oopses should be like SoftTimeRequests in the sense that they're not fatal. #161743 is the top one for codehosting at the moment. [18:07] Who should take care of 200572? Foundations maybe? [18:07] matsubara: yes [18:07] please let this not be an XSS nonsense [18:07] kiko: you jumped next week meeting... I will not be around (on public holidays) [18:07] ah, right [18:07] umm mmm [18:07] carlos, right, let's do that after this one. [18:08] matsubara, you sure you don't want to fix that one yourself? it's so easy [18:08] ok [18:08] we should tansform that into UnexpectedFormData? [18:08] this can happen in a lot of place actually [18:08] +1 for UFDs [18:09] the more we can capture, the better we can diagnose [18:09] well [18:09] sure, UFD is fine. [18:09] I think it should be a 404 [18:09] for example, i'm sure http://launchpad.dev/%ED45 would suffer the same fate [18:09] i think it should be a 404 as well. it's not a form. [18:09] if you visit http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hoary/bar [18:09] you get a 404 [18:09] so I correct myself [18:09] 404 -- this is just an artifact of improper utf8 handling in the query? [18:10] flacoste: the traceback looks different. [18:10] matsubara, if you visit https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hoary/%ee you get no OOPS page, but a Please try again. :) [18:10] flacoste: and the one described in the bug report goes directly into the db [18:10] normal, it's not the same code path [18:10] but the exception should be the same, no? [18:11] I mean, the one described in the report triggers a DB ProgrammingError kind of error, while the other triggers the usual UnicodeDecodeError [18:12] right, [18:12] We don't have any guards in our FooSet.getByName methods for invalid UTF8, so PG will barf. [18:12] i remember adding a ascii encoding to Pillar for tests purpose [18:12] flacoste, matsubara: can you guys meet up and make a decision later? [18:13] actually, there are many places where invalid UTF8 can be introduced [18:13] this is an issue that really annoys me as I /hate/ nonsense in the OOPS summaries [18:13] A decorator for our byname methods might be cool [18:13] stub is volunteering :-) [18:13] I'm bikeshedding [18:13] I'll add the discussion to the report. [18:13] [ACTION] matsubara, flacoste and stub to discuss UTF-8 safety of byName and other random attacks to launchpad.net [18:13] ACTION received: matsubara, flacoste and stub to discuss UTF-8 safety of byName and other random attacks to launchpad.net [18:13] matsubara, still want more oops discussion? [18:13] apart from that we can move on. thanks kiko [18:14] and thanks thumper! [18:14] [TOPIC] * Actions from last meeting [18:14] New Topic: * Actions from last meeting [18:14] oh phoey [18:14] its safe - PG barfs because it checks properly [18:14] [TOPIC] * Next meeting [18:14] New Topic: * Next meeting [18:14] * Rinchen is happy he's not the only one [18:14] * kiko curses Rinchen [18:14] next meeting: same time, same place. who's not gonna be here? [18:14] I will be on public holidays (and I guess I'm not the only one...) [18:14] When does NZ drop out of DS time? [18:14] thailand folks too? [18:15] i won't be there [18:15] no idea [18:15] it's Easter Friday for me next week [18:15] so BjornT and carlos won't be here. anyone else? [18:15] Rinchen: Nope [18:15] i'll be out [18:15] * thumper out# [18:15] DST ends on April 6 [18:15] so thumper, BjornT, carlos. [18:16] it'll be good friday for me [18:16] anyone else can't make it? [18:16] going [18:16] me [18:16] going [18:16] jesus, guys, pay attention [18:16] So April 10th's meeting will be at 6am [18:16] jesus, kiko, scroll up [18:16] who can't make it to the meeting next week? [18:16] me [18:16] right right [18:16] wonderful [18:16] mpt: Unless we switch the meeting times back then [18:17] bac, thumper, carlos, BjornT, mwhudson will be missed [18:17] bac: how about you, will you be in for the next meeting? [18:17] kiko, please do an [AGREED] on those not attending next week so I can pick it out of the logs easily. [18:17] Rinchen, you can do them too, you know? :) [18:17] [AGREED] bac, thumper, carlos, BjornT, mwhudson out next week [18:17] think it's only moderator but I'll try [18:17] AGREED received: bac, thumper, carlos, BjornT, mwhudson out next week [18:18] we can consider changing the time again next week if people like? [18:18] earlier would be nice [18:18] [ACTION] consider changing meeting time during next meeting [18:18] ACTION received: consider changing meeting time during next meeting [18:18] earlier isn't nice [18:18] jt1, you talk to thumper :) [18:18] * BjornT agrees with jt1 :) [18:18] kiko: It would need to wait until NZ goes out of DS time [18:18] not now too tired can't think straight [18:18] [TOPIC] Critical Bugs (Rinchen) [18:18] New Topic: Critical Bugs (Rinchen) [18:18] Howdy, a few for today [18:18] [LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/196936 [18:18] abel, how is this going? [18:18] LINK received: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/196936 [18:18] [LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/rosetta/+bug/196106 [18:18] [LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/rosetta/+bug/200499 [18:18] [LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/rosetta/+bug/201394 [18:18] danilo, carlos, jtv: how are this going? [18:18] LINK received: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/rosetta/+bug/196106 [18:18] LINK received: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/rosetta/+bug/200499 [18:18] Launchpad bug 196106 in rosetta "context menu entry "Paste File" [and other dialogs] not translated into German (anymore)" [Critical,In progress] [18:18] Launchpad bug 200499 in rosetta "Imported translation from upstream not correctly importing all strings" [Critical,In progress] [18:18] LINK received: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/rosetta/+bug/201394 [18:19] [LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/198825 [18:19] jml, how is this going? [18:19] LINK received: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/198825 [18:19] yes, +1 for earlier, I'm the only one from soyuz able to attend (because they think I'm still jetlagged) [18:19] Rinchen: jml isn't here, what's the bug? [18:19] Rinchen: testing on chokecherry, took longer than expected, should be ready by tomorrow or early next week at the latest [18:19] cprov, why are bigjools and al-maisan not here? [18:19] danilos, thanks [18:19] Rinchen: I'm waiting for a core dump; agreed with Kiko that we make a test run tomorrow on the PQM machine [18:19] kiko: because they have life ;) [18:19] Rinchen: 200499 is on pqm, 201394 is being tested on staging so I can get a cherry pick from kiko [18:19] adeuring, thanks. If you need help getting the dump, just ping [18:19] cprov, not on thursdays they don't. black marks for them. [18:19] carlos, great thanks. [18:20] Rinchen: i think that is Fix Committed now [18:20] Rinchen: I think this may have been in the commit just reverted (jml authserver bug) [18:20] kiko: duderino, they have kids and all that sort of /stuff/ ... [18:20] thumper, mwhudson - yes on authserver [18:20] ok, great. Thanks for the status. That was surprisingly quick. [18:20] cprov: life == launchpad [18:20] cprov, I've already emailed them -- I don't care, it's one day a week [18:20] kiko, back to you [18:20] oh yes, it got reverted [18:21] jml will be happy [18:21] just need to update the statuses then... [18:21] * sinzui is using a child to convince the shop keepers to let him stay for the meeting. [18:21] Rinchen, there were two other critical rosetta bugs? [18:21] kiko: I already answered to Rinchen [18:21] sinzui: and there we go ... my hands start shaking again :) [18:21] Rinchen, sorry, non-rosetta bugs? [18:21] kiko, the 3 I mentioned are replied to above. a 4th I didn't mention as it's fixed commit [18:22] gotcha. [18:22] moving on! [18:22] [TOPIC] Bug tags [18:22] New Topic: Bug tags [18:22] none proposed that I know of. anyone have one? [18:22] 3 [18:22] 2 [18:22] the dupefinder was approved or not? [18:22] matsubara, it was, last week [18:22] matsubara, I updated the page. I believe. :) [18:22] nope [18:22] still there [18:23] "After discussion, the proposer should update this page, moving the tag to the approved or declined section" [18:23] https://help.launchpad.net/TaggingLaunchpadBugs [18:23] hmm [18:23] will fix [18:23] [TOPIC] Operations report (mthaddon/herb) [18:23] New Topic: Operations report (mthaddon/herb) [18:23] let's welcome herb to the first round he's on his own :) [18:23] Caching for feeds is done on prod and edge. [18:23] Cherry pick going in after the meeting. [18:23] No status update on capturing coredumps from PQM. [18:23] That's it from me unless there are any questions. [18:23] herb, let me have a call with you later today so we can sort out the lxml coredump story, maybe we can do something simple. [18:24] hurrah for caching [18:24] kiko: ok [18:24] herb, could we reuse the same caching for feeds for other bits of launchpad? [18:24] kiko: potentially, yes. [18:24] kiko: that was the plan I heard [18:24] Rinchen: hmm, sorry, I told you about bug #201394 thinking on bug #200610 [18:24] Bug 201394 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/201394 is private [18:24] Bug 200610 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/200610 is private [18:24] herb, very cool. I'll try a HEAD later and see how it looks [18:24] Rinchen: bug #201394 is being handled by Jeroen [18:24] Bug 201394 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/201394 is private [18:25] [TOPIC] DBA report (stub) [18:25] New Topic: DBA report (stub) [18:25] I'll be doing this cycles DB patch reviews tomorrow as I've just realized it is week 2. [18:25] Nothing else thrilling to report. [18:25] carlos, ok will follow up with him tomorrow. [18:25] stub, PersonAuthSplit going to make it this time around? [18:26] * kiko sighs [18:26] [TOPIC] Sysadmin requests (Rinchen) [18:26] New Topic: Sysadmin requests (Rinchen) [18:26] kiko: The spec has had feedback from jamesh. I scheduled it for two cycles in the future I think, but there will be a lot of fallout so don't know [18:26] Hi! Is anyone blocked on an RT or have any that are becoming urgent? [18:26] stub, wow, 2 cycles is pretty far down [18:26] stub, not even 1.2.4? [18:27] I should take this point to tell everyone that mootbot's hosting is going away and I'm working with the scribes team to find a new host for it. We have a few ideas. We cannot host it at Canonical. [18:27] Rinchen, we could just host it at async, we have no standards [18:27] kiko, brilliant [18:27] [TOPIC] New packages required (salgado) [18:27] New Topic: New packages required (salgado) [18:27] if any of the branches you're working on right now depends on any library which is not part of the launchpad-dependencies package, come talk to me ASAP. [18:28] kiko: Firstly we need to agree and sign off on it. We don't know how long that will take. After that, we can implement what is specced. Hopefully the scope won't have crept and the fallout in the test suite won't be huge and we can do it in a cycle. [18:28] salgado: what happened to turbogears? [18:28] cprov, all our soyuz dependencies are looking okay, r ight? [18:28] kiko: yes, until we start doing package diff. [18:28] mwhudson, I'm waiting for someone to approve making lp-deps require sqlobject as well [18:28] cprov, do we need debdiff? we can require it sooner if you want. [18:29] salgado: ok [18:29] kiko: it I firmly believe will happen in 1.2.3 ... then we have to depend on 'devtools' [18:29] salgado, mwhudson: won't it be better to wait for storm to roll out [potentially next month]? [18:29] stub, who's on the hook to approve it? [18:29] cprov, ask salgado then [18:29] next month? really? [18:29] `devscripts`, sorry [18:29] salgado, yeah [18:29] I don't see any problems in waiting [18:29] salgado: shelve it in if you can, any version will be fine. [18:30] salgado, mwhudson: if it doesn't make next month, we can reconsider [18:30] cprov, please file a bug in the meta-lp-deps package [18:30] salgado: sure [18:30] Rinchen: approval would be sabdfl in this case. Agreement from kiko, SteveA, jamesh, me, salgado, francis and I think some others (leonard?) [18:30] jt1, carlos, danilos: anything going to be required for rosetta? [18:31] not that I'm aware of [18:31] cool [18:31] stub, thanks. Will you be driving that on your next call with sabdfl? Just curious to see if I can help. [18:31] kiko: yeah, we are good [18:31] and BjornT, nothing for the watch stuff now right? [18:31] thanks [18:31] kiko: no [18:31] I assume thumper knows too, so let's move on [18:32] [TOPIC] A top user-affecting issue (mrevell) [18:32] Rinchen: Yes. I need to discuss it with him even if the spec is in flux. [18:32] New Topic: A top user-affecting issue (mrevell) [18:32] my favorite section! [18:32] Hello Launchpadders! [18:32] mrevell: hey! :-P [18:32] yo matt [18:32] Ah, I hate to disappoint you kiko. This week I haven't seen any new recurring issues or particularly strking one-offs. However, I've had my head burried in work for the new user guide and new tour, along with a day on Bazaar work, so I apologise if I've missed something. [18:32] hello mrevell [18:32] :) [18:32] Has anyone else spotted something that they'd like to discuss right now? [18:32] maybe one of the users present wants to speak up at this point? :) [18:32] for one, /I/ use launchpad, and I think it's pretty slow over https. [18:33] mrevell: I need to talk with you about a bug we found in Translations [18:33] hey, that affects me too [18:33] carlos: there are no bugs in Translations [18:33] funny thing, eh statik? :) [18:33] but I think there is no many people seeing it [18:33] carlos: Cool [18:33] launchpad-over-http would be awesome [18:33] carlos: I certainly see it [18:33] what danilos said [18:33] mrevell: ;-) [18:33] What's the next step in implementing that? [18:33] danilos: indeed [18:33] carlos: particularly with long membership lists and that;s even in London [18:34] mpt, I think PersonAuthSplit is the next step. stub might be able to confirm! [18:34] For Launchpad over HTTP, IIRC we need the virtual hosts authenticating via OpenID [18:34] It is independant of AuthPersonSplit [18:34] okay. so shipit moving out is the first logical step. [18:34] salgado, stub: that's post 2.0 though, right? [18:34] snap [18:34] * stub shrugs [18:35] there is the issue of how to handle private content [18:35] stub: we could serve anonymous launchpad pages over http even sooner, right? [18:35] It has only been verbally discussed, so I guess so [18:35] we should refuse to server private content over HTTP [18:35] like sending email addresses over HTTP? [18:35] statik: I don't see why not. [18:35] if spammer do sniffing to harvest email addresses, where is the world going [18:35] me neither [18:35] yeah [18:36] https is our last barrier against spammers [18:36] flacoste: Hopefully that will end up in the too hard basket :) [18:36] NEXT [18:36] [TOPIC] Doc Team report (mrevell) [18:36] New Topic: Doc Team report (mrevell) [18:36] Docs! This week I've sent a new teams section of the user guide for review to the team mailing list. I'm also putting the finishing touches to a projects section, which also explains how to use series, releases and milestones. I'll be sending that to the team list this week for your input. [18:36] man mrevell types fast [18:36] Also, I'm working on a second and more polished draft of the new tour content, which I'll - again - be sending to the internal list for your review. [18:36] :) [18:36] There won't be a coming changes report this cycle as I haven't identified any changes that qualify. I've emailed each team lead to check they agree. Thanks to those of your who've replied so far! [18:36] mrevell, the stuff you sent out this week was pretty cool [18:36] ah thanks kiko [18:36] I'll be speaking to each team lead early next week with regard to documentation changes and additions required for 1.2.3. However, if there's anything you're aware of right now, please feel free to mail or ping me for a chat. [18:37] I've earmarked it in my inbox to review [18:37] Also, we have a new LaunchpadReleases page on the help wiki [18:37] which explains how we number our releases [18:37] and that'll come into its own after 1.2.3 is releases [18:37] a nice code change I might add [18:37] er released [18:37] oh, there's one thing I want to hijack this topic for in a moment. [18:37] and the new footer appears [18:37] mrevell: there's one bit in translations that's coming up, but we can talk it over next week [18:37] danilos: Great [18:37] Sorry, please go ahead kiko [18:37] team leads, note that you'll be called upon to help mrevell with documentation content (though it doesn't need to be you personally who writes it, and instead your team) [18:38] mrevell is a magician and a tongue twister and a joyce of launchpad [18:38] but there's too much application there for him to describe alone [18:38] My mother in law is called Joyce [18:38] hah! so it's genetic [18:38] :) [18:39] Thanks to each of the team leads for your chats with me in London last week. [18:39] And mrevell's a smart guy, but if the stuff he writes is stuff he can work out for himself, then other Launchpad users will be able to work out the same stuff for themselves, so it won't be useful [18:39] flacoste, BjornT, jt1, thumper, me, statik beware [18:39] I expect mrevell to use many nonces in his documentation [18:39] sinzui: Do you know what nonce means in the UK? [18:39] ... [18:39] mrevell: I DO! [18:39] oh [18:40] [TOPIC] canonical_url() stuff [18:40] New Topic: canonical_url() stuff [18:40] Well, yes, I'd be very appreciative of further input. It doesn't have to be fancy, I cnanpolish [18:40] er [18:40] :) [18:40] A true joyce [18:40] fail. [18:40] :) [18:40] abentley, master bzr ninja, and flacoste, master ninja of, well, all things non-bzr have brought upon us a new scourge [18:40] it is called canonical_url(..., view_name="foo") [18:40] you're supposed to use it instead of using string addition [18:41] so where you have [18:41] It is a fluffy and friendly scourge. [18:41] canonical_url(person) + "/+edit" [18:41] you should instead be doing [18:41] canonical_url(person, view_name="+edit") [18:41] I have a branch which fixes up all our browser code to use it [18:42]