/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/03/13/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

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emgent@schedule rome07:25
ubotuSchedule for Europe/Rome: 14 Mar 21:00: MOTU | 14 Mar 22:00: REVU Coordination | 19 Mar 22:00: Server Team | 26 Mar 22:00: Server Team07:25
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spawwhi all10:59
spawwanybody have a comparation for SERVERS with red hat and ubuntu ?10:59
spawwi need to justify the utilization of ubuntu on my servers11:00
spawwno one ?11:01
Keybukspaww: this channel is only used for meetings11:01
Keybukspaww: try #ubuntu11:02
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spawwok tkz11:05
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pittihi13:49
Hobbsee@schedule sydney13:50
ubotuSchedule for Australia/Sydney: 15 Mar 07:00: MOTU | 15 Mar 08:00: REVU Coordination | 20 Mar 08:00: Server Team | 27 Mar 08:00: Server Team13:50
Hobbseeouch13:50
zul@schedule montreal13:53
ubotuSchedule for America/Montreal: 14 Mar 16:00: MOTU | 14 Mar 17:00: REVU Coordination | 19 Mar 17:00: Server Team | 26 Mar 17:00: Server Team13:53
zulthaaats better13:53
* mvo waves13:57
pedro_hello hello!13:57
Keybukfridge has forgotten our meeting again13:58
seeleno Desktop meeting?  or did I get the time wrong?14:01
pittiseele: should happen right now14:02
Keybukindeed14:02
Keybukwe're just waiting for the boss14:03
Keybukoh, wait, that's me14:03
mvothe boss-boss ?14:03
mvoaha14:03
Keybukhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-03-1314:03
KeybukI didn't see any agenda items in the reports today14:04
Keybukdid I miss any?14:04
kwwiibtw, I am here but I might be away shortly if my son starts puking again14:04
tedgThis is precisely the reason video chat should never catch on....14:05
kwwii;-)14:05
Keybuknothing added to http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReportingPage this week either14:05
Keybuk(hint) :p14:05
seeleif there are no agenda items can i ask a question about the Desktop Experiences Templates?14:06
pitti*shrug* didn't find anything interesting to add14:06
Keybukseele: of course, what is your question?14:07
seeleWhat exactly are the goals of those pages?  i.e. what kind of content goes in to them?14:07
seelewhen i figure heard of them, i thought it would be a collection of user research information14:07
seelebut they just look like use cases (not use scenarios which are tied to user research information)14:07
seele*should* they contain more user research, or did i misunderstand their purpose?14:08
Keybukseele: a bit of everything at the moment; we're still working out what to put in them14:08
Keybukthe person you want to talk to is mpt, he'll be owning those in a few months14:08
seeleok14:08
seeledocumenting user research is very important, and that would be the place to put it14:08
Keybukindeed14:08
Keybukfeel free to start work on them if it interests you :)14:08
Keybukany contribution is valuable14:09
seeleto document user groups and profiles for each of the experiences would help all related applications to those experiences14:09
seeleok, i just didnt want to start editing pages that dont belong to me14:09
Keybukthey're on the wiki precisely so anyone can edit them :-)14:09
Keybukok14:09
Keybukpitti: thanks for chairing the meeting and giving out the report last week14:10
pittiyou're welcome14:10
pittibtw, does http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogasawara/qa-hardy-list-archive/sort-by-package/desktop-buglist.html ever get updated automatically?14:10
pittiit looks pretty much the same like last week14:10
tedgseele: Also look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Experiences/Current14:10
Keybukand thanks for the extensive review of that URL14:10
pittiand e. g. I untagged 131976 last week14:10
Keybukpedro_: do you know the answer to Martin's question?14:10
seeletedg: yes, i've read the ones that exist for hardy14:11
Keybukthey were certainly touched today14:11
kwwiipitti: you went through that many bugs?14:11
pittiit's not that many14:11
pedro_pitti: AFAIK it's, will talk with ogasawara about that14:11
tedgThat's actually an interesting question, the out-of-diskspace thing, does the fact that it works on reboot close the bug?14:12
Keybukmvo: there's a few on that list that seem to be yours14:12
pittitedg: I'd say yes; thanks for testing14:12
tedgIt would be nicer if GDM handled it, but I'd say at some level it's fixed.14:12
mvoKeybuk: yeah, I attacked some already, but there are still quite a few left14:12
seb128doh14:12
mvoKeybuk: espceially the compiz one with the screensaver is difficult, I was never able to reproduce it14:12
Keybukmvo: I mean that aren't assigned to you14:12
pittitedg: so the 1 MB /tmp tmpfs helped? it's not necessary to have free space on ~?14:12
seb128nobody pinged me?14:12
mvoKeybuk: oh, sorry14:13
Keybukseb128: how odd, I thought you were here :)14:13
seb128sorry for being late I was working and not looking at the clock14:13
kwwiiseb128: must not be important enough ;-)14:13
Keybukmvo: just two, actually14:13
seb128mvo: speaking about what?14:13
Keybukif we can't replicate the bugs, they should be marked Incomplete and de-tagged14:13
tedgpitti: No, it wasn't.  I was surprised also, I was expecting to have to do a minimal terminal login.14:13
* mvo nods14:13
Keybukespecially if nobody in this team can replicate them14:13
Keybukpitti & tedg: thanks for your work on gnome power manager so far14:15
mvoKeybuk: I think I didn't assign myself to all compiz bugs as I had kind of hoped that macslow would be able to help here14:15
Keybuktoday is a *real* improvement for me14:15
Keybukmvo: sometimes they just need a quick review, and unassign/untag14:15
seb128Keybuk: we got a new gpm uploaded?14:15
mvook, I will do that today14:15
tedgkwwii: I didn't follow up, are you cool with the screensaver stuff?14:15
Keybukseb128: I'm using the one out of ted's archive I think14:16
seb128ah ok14:16
Keybuk(which will obviously need sponsoring)14:16
Keybukand a UVF exception, I guess14:16
seb128I've that on my todo since the backlight changes on ac are one of the thing really annoying on hardy14:16
* Keybuk tries to work out whether GNOME Power Manager comes under the GNOME UVF exception :p14:16
seb128well, I'm not sure we want to change to this event based logic now and without upstream agreeing14:17
seb128but that's really a meeting thing14:17
seb128tedg: I need to speak to you about that ;-)14:17
Keybukah, no, I'm actually using current hardy14:17
tedgseb128: Richard has commented on the list, and he seems relatively happy with it.14:17
KeybukI was using ted's on the other laptop14:17
seb128tedg: ah ok, I'm not on the list14:17
tedgseb128: One change to get rid of the 5% buffer I put in.14:17
Keybukso both seem good to me14:17
kwwiitedg: I haven't taken care of it yet, as I wanted to get the normal artwork in on time :-)14:18
seb128I try to get a reply from him on the bugzilla bug for some weeks14:18
kwwiitedg: I'll look into it and see what I can screw up on my own before annoying you with questions14:18
tedgseb128: It seems you can get one reply if you post a message to the mailing list ;)14:18
seb128maybe with some luck Keybuk will fix the udev dell bug too before beta *g* ;-)14:18
Keybukthere's a dell bug?14:18
seb128not dell, iwl394514:19
Keybukyeah, it will be14:19
Keybukthere's several degress of hackery to fix it14:19
seb128the 30 seconds delay on boot thing14:19
Keybuksadly some of them break other devices14:19
Keybukok, any other business today?14:20
seb128Keybuk: do we know who is going to fosscamp? I still didn't book14:21
Keybukanyone who would like to go, can go14:21
seb128I mean from upstream14:21
Keybukerr, let me check14:22
KeybukUDSIntrepid/Sponsorships on s3cr3t wiki14:22
Keybukshould have Accepted next to them if they've replied14:23
seeleyou know.. the date of FOSSCamp isnt on the website14:23
seb128ok, will look to that and book quickly, I don't want to get claire unhappy ;-)14:23
Keybukseele: yes it is ...14:23
Keybukhttp://www.fosscamp.org/14:23
KeybukFri 16th / Sat 17th May 2008 - Corinthia Towers Hotel, Prague, Czech Republic14:23
seeleoh the home page14:24
pittiseb128: anything we need/should discuss wrt. session startup speed?14:24
seb128pitti: FIXIT14:24
seb128pitti: I've talked to vuntz about it14:24
* seele was looking at the other three pages14:24
Keybukmdz spotted one14:24
ogra_cmpcthrow out all applets and autostart progs14:25
Keybukwe start both gvfsd and gnome-vfs-daemon14:25
seb128the best we can do probably right now is to add a StartupDelay= to the autostart desktop14:25
seb128make gnome-session understand and apply the delay14:25
seb128remove deskbar14:25
seb128and disable tracker14:25
Keybukwhat about the gnome-systems-tool evil?14:25
seb128mvo: how is nautilus-share going? ;-)14:25
ogra_cmpccouldnt the printer applet be started by hal ?14:25
mvoseb128: its fine, uploaded and ready - ftbfs because of glibc madness though14:26
seb128Keybuk: I don't get the issue there and garnacho (upstream) has no real idea of what is going on there14:26
mvoseb128: I will make the update-notifier change to run apt-check later today14:26
seb128need debugging by somebody getting the slowness14:26
seb128mvo: good14:26
Keybukok, I'll see what's happening there14:26
seb128anybody has an opinion about deskbar?14:26
seb128I think we should remove it14:26
* Keybuk removed deskbar from his session quite a while ago14:26
seb128we will stop tracker by TB decision14:26
kwwiiremove it14:26
ogra_cmpc++14:27
seb128it doesn't understand firefox3 bookmarks14:27
seb128and I think it' taking login speed for no real win without those14:27
pittiseb128: deskbar seems to be quite broken ATM to me14:28
seb128Keybuk: gvfs and gnome-vfs is an issue of not having the world ported to gvfs yet, not easy to fix14:28
pittiI'd rather fix it, since it's cute, but people can still enable it if they want to14:28
seb128pitti: ok, let's remove it from the default profiles and fix the issues14:28
Keybukok, we seem to have reached a conclusion14:33
Keybukthanks everyone14:33
pittithanks all14:34
seb128thanks14:34
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ubuntu-geekafternoon matthew22:09
forumsmatthewhey u-g22:09
LaRozaHello everyone22:09
ubuntu-geekhey laroza22:09
forumsmatthewhi there22:09
LaRozaHello, it is my first time, so be gentle :)22:09
forumsmatthewalways22:09
forumsmatthewyou aren't richbarna, are you? lol22:10
ubuntu-geeklol22:10
LaRozaHow did you know? I lied, I accepted and reported myself :)22:10
forumsmatthewI think Mike is sick22:11
forumsmatthewis jdong available22:11
ubuntu-geekcool lets do this22:11
forumsmatthewall set22:11
forumsmatthewI'm pinging jdong to see if he is around22:12
forumsmatthewno response22:12
LaRozaHope he's alright22:13
forumsmatthewhe's probably just busy22:13
forumsmatthewMIT and all that22:13
forumsmatthewI bet he's doing something fun like building a flying robot for class22:13
forumsmatthewwith laser eyes22:13
ubuntu-geekCool well our agenda is pretty light22:13
forumsmatthewyeah22:13
forumsmatthewtwo forum requests is all I see22:14
forumsmattheware22:14
LaRozaSpeaking of which...22:14
forumsmatthewgive it to us, girl!22:14
LaRozaI would like to have a Web Development Forum setup in the Development and Programming section22:14
forumsmatthewproposal22:14
LaRozaFor those who think it isn't related to Ubuntu see: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=72359822:14
ubuntu-geekWe've discussed that in the past and declined it. But its worth reconsidering.22:15
LaRozaFor server issues, or programming issues there are forums, but Web Development is more.22:15
LaRozaEven me, I use Windows for web development and that is my only use of Windows, so it is specific to the OS.22:15
LaRozaSome think it is art, server, programming, or other material. It would make sense to have a place for web related content. It is programming, art, and design, but there is a unique mix of elements22:16
LaRozaThat make the OS being used important.22:16
LaRozaDevelopment & Programming has several forums, one for generic Programming, so the specific field of web development would not be out of place, especially since there are many Ubuntu related issues and questions to be asked22:17
* LaRoza looks for something22:18
forumsmatthewmy only hesitation, and it isn't a big one, is the sheer number of forums we have, but as a subforum of Development & Programming, I might go for it22:18
LaRozaHere is a part of the community opinion: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=58586322:18
forumsmatthewI can see the specific use case, and it would likely get more use than some of our current forums22:19
LaRozaThe Art and Design, Programming Talk, Cafe, General Help, and random other forums get posts that would be perfect for a Web Development forum22:19
LaRozaSo many begin with "I don't know if this is the right place to post this, but..."22:19
ubuntu-geekCatching up reading..22:20
LaRozaPlus, I am a web developer and only happen to see such threads by accident. It is difficult for me to help with my favourite aspect of computer22:20
forumsmatthewI hate it when work interferes with my online life22:20
forumsmatthew:)22:20
ubuntu-geekmy msg's arent working atm22:21
LaRozaubuntu-geek: The above poll has a joined thread, that wasn't there before. So there is a gap in time and content22:21
ubuntu-geeki need to register with the nickserv :) weee22:21
forumsmatthewgotcha, u-g22:21
LaRozamaybe ug is nickbarna?22:21
LaRozarichbarna*22:21
ubuntu-geekshhh22:22
forumsmatthewlol22:22
ubuntu-geekwell i dont remember my password22:22
forumsmatthewHey, look at me! I'm trolling myself!!!22:22
forumsmatthewI think it is *******22:22
LaRozaHappens to us all ubuntu-geek22:22
LaRozaNo, that is mine22:22
ubuntu-geekanyways, matthew yes i think what you is fine22:22
forumsmatthewOkay, via msg22:23
ubuntu-geekYep22:23
forumsmatthewdone22:24
ubuntu-geekI've always kind of thought the Programming Talk forum http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=39 was a good general forum for any type of development talk. We could make it more clear. I think one we implement tags/prefixes our somewhat limited forums will blosum with new options.22:25
LaRozaI did offer the solution as renaming Programming Talk to "Programming and Web Development"22:26
ubuntu-geekmatthew thoughts?  My first thought would be to keep the name the same but revamp the description.22:29
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LaRozaI think that would be slightly confusing. As most web developers don't consider themselves programmers.22:30
LaRozaThey seem to be either attracted to Art and Design, or Programming Talk.22:30
LaRozaBut writing CSS is neither "art" or "programming".22:31
LaRozaHe has been kidnapped!22:33
ubuntugeek:) ok i had my nick wrong..22:34
ubuntugeekSorry about that22:34
ubuntugeekMatthew?22:35
ubuntugeekwelcome back22:35
LaRozaEveryone is leaving...22:35
forumsmatthew_thanks, what happened?22:35
Technovikingsorry22:36
Technovikingjust woke up22:36
ubuntugeekNo worries mike we started about 20 mins ago22:36
ubuntugeekYou should go back to bed :)22:36
LaRozaTechnoviking is mike?22:36
forumsmatthew_are you feeling okay, Mike22:36
Technovikingbetter22:36
ubuntugeekGlad to hear it.22:37
ubuntugeekWe are having connection issues22:37
LaRozaThey are...22:37
Technovikingsorry I missed the meeting22:37
LaRozayou just missed the Web Development subforum proposal22:37
forumsmatthew_aaagh, I can't stay logged in tonight22:37
forumsmatthew_sorry if you didn't get my PMs LaRoza22:38
LaRozaUse Opera...22:38
forumsmatthew_now I can't send them from this nick22:38
forumsmatthew_local ISP probably22:38
forumsmatthew_anyone remember how to kill a zombie login?22:38
LaRozaI did it once, but forget how.22:39
forumsmatthew_yeah, me too. Where's pricey?22:39
Technovikingforumsmatthew: you have to shoot the zombie login in the brain22:40
forumsmatthew_braiiins!!22:40
forumsmatthew_It's 10:40 p.m. here...22:40
LaRoza1840 here22:40
forumsmatthew_did we finalize the proposal for the web development thing?22:40
Technoviking+1 for me on a web development forum22:40
LaRozaYes, make it now22:41
ubuntugeekOK so.. on the web development forum. My suggestion is we modify the programming description and leave the name. when we upgrade to 3.7 we can implement prefixes which will help define the area22:41
LaRozaWould changing the name be too difficult?22:41
forumsmatthew_I commented on that, but I don't think anyone saw it...so, again, I agree. With the new tagging feature in 3.7 this will be easier22:41
LaRozaWhat is the "tagging" feature?22:42
forumsmatthew_you can add "tags" to posts, telling people what the main idea is, then the tags are searchable as well as indexed22:42
forumsmatthew_it should make stuff a lot easier to find22:42
ubuntugeekCSS, php, asp, etc etc22:42
LaRozaLike a title...22:42
forumsmatthew_only better22:43
ubuntugeekkubuntu, edubuntu, ubuntu etc etc22:43
LaRozaOr is a predefined title/tag22:43
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forumsmatthewfinally, I'm me again22:43
LaRozaProve it22:43
Technovikingsounds good to me ubuntugeek22:43
LaRozaAbout the tag thing, are they visible?22:43
LaRozaLike the [SOLVED] things?22:44
ubuntugeekYes they are visable22:44
ubuntugeekThey will be displayed by the thread topic someplace22:44
forumsmatthewI'll find the link for the vbulletin 3.7 new features for you to check out22:44
LaRozaCool, that is a good feature22:44
forumsmatthewhere it is, post #3 http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24946022:45
ubuntugeekYep it'll help us merge and clean up some forums22:45
ubuntugeekand make it easier for users to find information22:45
LaRozaThat is cool. Look forward to it22:45
ubuntugeekGood deal.22:45
LaRozaAre the tags predefined, or user set? Or both22:45
ubuntugeekpredefined22:46
ubuntugeekWe'll probably ask for input22:46
LaRozaEach forum would have their own?22:46
LaRozaCut that out Matthew.22:46
forumsmatthewback again22:47
ubuntugeekYes, some might not have them it depends22:47
LaRozaCool22:47
LaRozaCan't wait.22:47
ubuntugeekShall we discuss the second topic really quick? http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=72048322:47
forumsmatthewyeah22:47
ubuntugeekI'm not really sure how this would fit in. It seems sorta general22:48
LaRozaI really don't think it is needed...IMO22:48
forumsmatthewI can see the benefit, but it is a small one, and I am against forum proliferation in general22:49
LaRozaAre there a lot of questions on the subject?22:49
LaRozaFrom what I followed, there isn't. (Not like Web Dev which has many such threads)22:49
Technovikingin 3.7 we could have a "Enterprise" tag22:50
ubuntugeekI haven't seen many.22:50
forumsmatthewno, but it could be argued that is because people don't know where to ask...although I would tend not to agree with that22:50
LaRozaNo, they would ask22:50
LaRozaJust like those lost in Web Dev22:50
forumsmatthewenterprise tag: going where no tag has gone before22:50
LaRozalol22:50
forumsmatthewI'm going to stick my neck out and say this was worth discussing, but I don't think it is something we need to do22:51
ubuntugeekMike, thats a good idea I would be ok with that.22:51
forumsmatthewubuntugeek, Mike, I agree22:51
LaRozaI don't, just to be difficult22:52
forumsmatthew+1 on enterprise tag, -1 on new forum22:52
LaRoza(actually, I do)22:52
ubuntugeekBut I think having a forum at this point wouldn't be beneficial the topic is pretty broad and the questions asked there would probably fit in another category.22:52
ubuntugeek+1 on tag, -1 forum22:52
Technoviking+1 on tag, -1 for new forum22:53
forumsmatthewcool, we all agree22:53
ubuntugeekGreat!22:53
forumsmatthewPink forums and purple ponies for April first?22:54
ubuntugeekYou know it22:54
ubuntugeekAnd maybe something extra too22:54
forumsmatthewunicorns!! Please!?22:55
LaRozaCthulhu, please?22:55
ubuntugeekhah22:55
TechnovikingCthulhu unicorns22:55
forumsmatthewwith fairy wings22:55
ubuntugeekWell guys I hate to wrap this up when the fun is just starting but my wife isnt feeling so well and needs me. Does anyone have anything else  to discuss?22:55
LaRozaNone for me22:56
forumsmatthewI propose that ubuntugeek leave and take care of his wife22:56
Technovikinghttp://sunfox.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/ubuntu-hello-cthulhu.png22:56
forumsmatthewand I will go get some sleep22:56
ubuntugeekTalk to you all later..22:56
LaRozaI will go back on UF...22:56
LaRozaSee you.22:56
forumsmatthewTechnoviking, that is hysterical!22:56
Technovikingand I will chase the nyquil dragon22:56
LaRozaDid anyone actually succeed in seeing this whole room from start to finish besides me?22:56
forumsmatthewnot here. could you give me a log?22:57
Technovikingnite22:57
LaRozaHow?22:57
LaRozaBesides copying and pasting...22:57
forumsmatthewcopy/paste in the staff forum or via pm, I'll clean it up for official posting22:58
ubuntugeeksee you guys later22:59
LaRozaDone, except for this sentence.22:59
LaRozaSee you22:59
forumsmatthewgoodnight, all!22:59
ubuntugeekMike feel better22:59
forumsmatthewand thank you!22:59
forumsmatthewubuntugeek, +122:59
LaRozaAll of you get good clients and stay connected!22:59
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