[00:00] seb128: I'm with vorlon. [00:00] And this is why openjdk is evil. Run a few test builds in the background, and I have nothing better to do than have OPINIONS in #-devel... [00:01] heh [00:02] ok, gst reuploaded === jamesh_ is now known as jamesh === rcc is now known as GodFather [00:51] well, that's nice; I try to reproduce bug #149791 using the 'test' button in gstreamer-properties, and X crashes [00:51] Launchpad bug 149791 in xserver-xorg-video-ati "Black & White Video Output (Gutsy)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/149791 [00:52] moral: only try to reproduce milestoned bugs of >= high importance === jra is now known as jandrusk === Yasumoto is now known as [CA]Yasumoto === tritium is now known as [NM]tritium === [NM]tritium is now known as tritium[NM] [02:29] anyone fixing scim yet? [02:29] Hobbsee: There was an upload for it not long ago. [02:30] TheMuso: ubuntu3, or? [02:30] ah, yes, i see [02:32] "fixing" is such a subjective thing [02:47] glancing over https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/scim , I don't suspect what Hobbsee meant was resolved, that being that it lives in the tray and won't die? [02:48] she may mean that ubuntu3 failed to install at all because I'm a putz [02:48] superm1: i meant the latter [02:48] for the former, i've purged scim off the face of the planet, so i don't care. [02:48] Hobbsee, ah okay. [02:48] haha [03:34] hrm, apport removed the need-i386-retrace tag from bug 202021 but didn't do the retrace [03:34] Launchpad bug 202021 in compiz "compiz.real crashed with SIGSEGV in updateWindowAttributes()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/202021 [03:35] s/apport/retracer/ [03:35] oh, that core dump looks bad, only 11kb [03:36] Shouldn't compiz core dumps be full of 3D textures and bling? :-P [03:36] my worry is that a patch i wrote changed one call to updateWindowAttributes and added another one and now i've got my first ever crash report in updateWindowAttributes [03:37] Heh === ZarroBoogs is now known as Pici === thegodfather is now known as fabbione [07:22] Good morning [07:53] hm, I wonder if we should move the gzip level in initramfs from -9 to -6. On my initramfs here, the size then changes from 8763263 to 8847664 bytes which is an increase of almost 1%, but the time to create it goes from ~15s to ~2.5s. [08:17] where should i ask loco related questions? [08:19] where should i ask loco related questions? [08:29] slangasek: any reason you didn't accept the g-s-t changes? [08:29] seb128: mental backlog [08:30] ok, that's a good reason ;-) [08:44] seb128: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/12662959/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-i386.gtk%2B2.0_2.12.9-2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz looks weird [08:44] seb128: looks like a pkgstriptranslations bug [08:45] but it seems something in gtk+2.0 changed recently [08:45] pitti: give it a retry? [08:45] seb128: I already did [08:45] it failed again [08:45] pitti: -1 and -2 have only extra includes to avoid an implicit definition change [08:46] the .mo files seem to be dangling symlinks or something like that [08:46] pitti: doesn't make sense, did you change pkgstriptranslations recently? [08:47] seb128: on Feb 28, but only the conffile (not strip restricted any more) [08:47] the last pkgstriptranslations script change was on 27 Mar 2007 [08:47] pitti: weird, gtk built 3 days ago [08:48] and as said that's only an implicit declaration fix in the new revision [08:48] right, I believe you [08:48] seb128: certainly new glibc :) [08:48] I've no idea about the issue [08:48] yeah ;-) [08:48] seb128: anyway, I'm not sure whether I already gave back that one [08:48] I'll try it again [08:48] and if it fails again, I'll build it locally with pkgbinarymangler [08:48] but need to do some archive admin first [08:49] the build 3 days ago failed and I asked you to try I think [08:49] and that worked [08:49] anyone attached to aptitude? needs libcwidget0 -> libcwidget3 transition [08:50] * pitti pokes that one [08:51] it needs a new upstream version to be buildable against libcwidget3 :/ [08:51] (or a backport of some sort) [08:51] erk [08:52] I tried to pin it on doko since he did the cwidget merge, but he's fled to Texas :) [08:53] slomo: ^ discussion just before about gtk [08:54] oh, good ;) [08:57] so mono-tools still b-deps on libxul-dev, although the changelog says "build against firefox" [08:57] geser ^ [08:58] oh, not online [08:59] pitti: do you want to get rid of gtkhtml3.8 from main for hardy (iirc libgtkhtml2.0-cil was the last rdepend)? requires new upstream versions, a NEW package and getting that NEW package to main ;) oh, and a patch for f-spot (and another universe package) [08:59] oh, tempting [08:59] slomo: new source? or just new binary of libgtkhtml2.0-cil? [09:00] sounds pretty intrusive, though [09:00] so maybe at least not for beta [09:00] pitti: new source... gnome-desktop-sharp2 + new binary packages from that one (it's in debian/experimental atm) [09:00] pitti: for beta of course not, the changes are not exactly small... if it wasn't for getting an old package removed it wouldn't even ask you for hardy ;) [09:01] * pitti hugs slomo [09:01] we should definitively look at it at least [09:01] pitti: well, i can only say that things work fine for me ;) [09:02] * pitti looks at rpm, which was uploaded with a broken patch [09:03] not a broken patch... a completely absent patch \o/ [09:03] right [09:04] slangasek: permission to upload that? it just more or less restores ubuntu4 [09:04] pitti: yes, you don't need to ask permission for those kinds of fixes [09:04] ok, thanks [09:13] good morning [09:17] hey hey dholbach [09:17] heya seb128 [09:21] seb128: so, a good deal of the gnome related FTBFS on sparc are due to xulrunner-1.9 not building on sparc [09:24] is it just for me that firefox is failing to load any pages? [09:25] ah, no [09:25] firefox suddenly picks up the gnome proxy settings.. that's.. unfortunate. [09:26] oh, it can be turned off [09:27] Mithrandir: I like that idea; it's a very noticeable part of the install process [09:27] Mithrandir: (update-initramfs and gzip -6) [09:27] needs a comment though :) [09:27] slangasek: shall I update ubuntu-meta or are you on it? [09:28] cjwatson: should I just fix it? It looks harmless enough and the impact is tiny. [09:30] Mithrandir: the drop from me is only from 15 to 10 seconds rather than 15 to 2.5, but still [09:30] and an increase of 37KB [09:31] my test was on amd64 [09:31] Mithrandir: I think so. Just drop the -9 (since -6 is the default) rather than explicitly selecting? [09:31] yeah, might make sense. [09:35] hi pitti [09:35] hi tkamppeter [09:35] Mithrandir: btw, bug 195305 is waiting for a comment from you [09:35] Launchpad bug 195305 in stardict "Please sync stardict 3.0.1-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/195305 [09:36] pitti: I asked lool to pick that up. [09:36] pitti, it seems that Saivann and me have hit a real bug in the Launchpad upload mechanism. [09:36] thanks [09:36] tkamppeter: --verbose ? [09:37] pitti, it is about bug 202072, the upload of the Brother drivers. [09:37] Launchpad bug 202072 in ubuntu "FreezeException for brother-lpr-drivers-* packages" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/202072 [09:37] cjwatson: the full update-initramfs time goes from 17.6s to 11.1s for me, so that's in line with what you're seeing. [09:38] tkamppeter: right, I see the packages in the queue; I'll get to them [09:39] For the packages brother-lpr-drivers-laser, brother-lpr-drivers-laser1, brother-lpr-drivers-mfc9420cn, and brother-lpr-drivers-common I get a reject with "MD5 sum of uploaded file does not match existing file in archive" twice. [09:39] tkamppeter: they look like duplicate uploads [09:40] brother-lpr-drivers-laser1 was already in the archive, and then an upload arrived for the same version; brother-lpr-drivers-mfc9420cn was already in the archive, and then an upload arrived for a lower version [09:40] Saivann got also the same error when uploading to his PPA. So I rebuilt the source package files with "debuild -S -sa" and signed again to regenerate all checksums. [09:41] the others are already in the archive too [09:41] why is Saivann trying to upload them again [09:41] ? [09:41] Ok, I'm getting confused trying to answer this myself... When exactly is grub's device.map used and for what? [09:42] tkamppeter: right; you need to reuse the current orig.tar.gz, or (if you really need to change it), rename it [09:42] cjwatson, Saivann has done corrections on them, and probably he did not really know about that some of them were approved and so he still worked on the versioning concept for them. [09:42] tkamppeter: e. g. 2.0.1-2 or 2.0.1-1+1 or so [09:42] It maps between the devices as seen by the BIOS and what the OS calls it. I get that, but when is that needed, exactly? [09:43] tkamppeter: (btw, unusual that upstream versions have -1 in them) [09:43] slangasek: tracker uploaded which desactive indexing and watching by default as decided by the technical board [09:46] pitti, so I think you should answer to Saivanns mail from 03/13/2008 09:25 PM CET telling him about the correct versioning, file naming, and also giving him a list of what is already in the archives, so that he can recreate his packages to get a working update of what is already there. [09:46] tkamppeter: can you do this, please? I'm really busy ATM [09:47] tkamppeter: apt-cache showsrc tells you which are already in the archive; or rmadison [09:47] apt-cache search/show for the binary packages [09:48] pitti, no problem, I will lead him through all the Debian concept stuff for his packages getting in, or I will simply overtake packaging for now, as all brother-printer-specific is in, I only need to put the Debian layer over it. [09:48] tkamppeter: ok, thanks [09:50] pitti, all will be ready today in the afternoon or during the next week. Saivann has done well for now and the next step of the MOTU course for him will follow later. [09:50] ouch, no LTS for SPARC? sad. [09:50] Saivannn is already very close to getting MOTU ... [09:55] slangasek: bug 200785 looks reasonable to me [09:55] Launchpad bug 200785 in xserver-xorg-video-nv "please sync from Debian unstable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/200785 [10:03] pitti, slangasek: I have a fix for bug 201596, the textured video was not turned off by default like it should've been [10:03] Launchpad bug 201596 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "xv is not working on intel when using compiz" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/201596 [10:12] pitti, MOTU lesson to Saivann is on its way (you are CCed) ... [10:27] Anyone knows how to proceed if spam comments are added to bugs? [10:28] Like the last comment in bug 43824? [10:28] Launchpad bug 43824 in foo2zjs "HP Laserjet 1000 doesn't work with cups2 (dup-of: 65618)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/43824 [10:28] Launchpad bug 65618 in foo2zjs "Firmware upload to LJ 1000/1005/1008/1020 broken (fix to be proposed as Edgy update)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/65618 [10:28] Can I subscribe this bug to a special admin team or so? [10:30] tkamppeter: ask in #launchpad - or ask a question on answers.launchpad.net on the launchpad product itself === cpro1 is now known as cprov [10:55] pitti, slangasek: I uploaded the new -intel, the change was a oneliner [10:55] and tested === pedro__ is now known as pedro_ [10:58] pitti: is saivann your motu student? [10:58] tkamppeter: or your? [10:58] ^^ [11:00] ATM, rather tkamppeter's [11:01] but I occasionally chime in with some hints [11:01] crap, newest updates for fglrx makes my Radeon Mobility go black blank [11:02] ogra_cmpc: python-ltsp wants to go to universe, is that ok? [11:02] yup [11:02] its only used by tools that are not even uploaded [11:03] thin-client-manager should be in the demotion list as well though [11:04] ogra_cmpc: hm, it's not [11:04] ugh [11:04] -- hardy/main i386 deps on thin-client-manager-gnome: [11:04] edubuntu-desktop-kde [11:04] student-control-panel [11:04] yeah [11:04] -- hardy/main amd64 deps on thin-client-manager-backend: [11:04] edubuntu-desktop [11:04] just saw that (thus the ugh) [11:05] i was aware about the backend ... [11:05] but not that -kde depends on -gnome :P [11:06] * ogra_cmpc fixes seeds [11:06] ogra_cmpc: while you are at it, italc wants to go to universe, too [11:06] ogra_cmpc: I assume that needs to be seeded as well? [11:06] yup [11:06] lool, seb128: gnome-vfs-obexftp wants to go to universe; seed or demote? [11:07] (or should it be a dependency?) [11:07] i wonder if i keep tcm in ship ... hmm [11:08] Riddell: kde-style-polyester and ksplash-engine-moodin want to go to universe; is that ok? === chand is now known as chand[aw] [11:13] hi mvo! [11:14] mvo: I know that apt-get dist-upgrade is not officially supported-- is aptitude full-upgrade, or should we always use do-release-upgrade? [11:14] pitti: Hmm I wonder whether the gvfs version is pulled [11:14] I think it is [11:14] mvo: (this is from release-release, eg gutsy-hardy) [11:14] lool: ? [11:15] pitti: This package has been requested for a long long time to allow people to browse phones or other bluetooth devices from the bluetooth applet [11:15] lool: right, I dimly remember the MIR [11:15] lool: so I assume it should become a dependency of something, or be seeded into desktop? === \sh_away is now known as \sh [11:16] pitti: What I'd like to check is whether we could get the new obex gvfs backend pulled and used by default instead [11:16] There's /usr/lib/gvfs/gvfsd-obexftp [11:16] oh [11:16] right, gnome-vfs -> old [11:17] * lool removes gnome-vfs-obexftp [11:17] pitti: gnome-vfs-obexftp can go, it's old. [11:17] pitti: new gvfs has obex support built in [11:17] ok, great [11:17] demoted then [11:18] I haven't followed the discussion, so I'm not sure what you mean by "remove"? [11:18] Oh, good. [11:18] Failed [11:18] Mithrandir: It works for you? [11:18] remove == demote. Then I'm fine. :) [11:18] Mithrandir: I just tried from the bluetooth applet and it errored in an ugly way [11:19] lool: iirc, it worked last time I tested, yes. [11:19] I don't have an obexftp capable cell phone here now. [11:20] jdstrand_: for dapper->hardy apt-get/aptitude will not be able to do a work dist-upgrade, we need the do-release-upgrade. for gutsy->hardy do-release-upgrade is recommended, but apt-get/aptitude will work (also you need to do the hand-holding manually and read the release notes to e.g. change slocate to mlocate etc) [11:20] * mvo -> lunch [11:20] All my attempts to gvfs-ls failed [11:25] gosh, is that fam thing *still* in Debian [11:25] oh, we actually modified glib2.0 in Ubuntu; we should swap the libfam-dev alternatives [11:25] sometimes it's hard to let go :) [11:26] pitti: fam is still usefull for nfs mounts apparently [11:26] pitti: that's fine, they can go to universe [11:26] Riddell: thanks [11:27] TheMuso, Riddell: you actually use festival in Kubuntu? it's still seeded, but in universe [11:28] and AFAIR it was obsolete (by espeak?) [11:28] pitti, Mithrandir: so it works *only* if you gvfs-mount manually [11:28] But in all cases gnome-vfs-obexftp should be demoted [11:29] sjoerd: I think it's useless on linux systems even if you have nfs [11:29] sjoerd: I understand that inotify is selected no matter what if it's available on the system [11:29] lool: how would you get notifications for directories/files on nfs mounts in linux without fam ? [11:29] Instead of looking whether this is specific to the mount point / directory [11:30] sjoerd: You don't... [11:30] :) [11:30] sjoerd: We were discussing this with Np237 yesterday or so [11:30] ah, and? [11:30] conclusion was, just don't get events and live with it ? [11:31] sjoerd: Well the gnome-vfs patch should be ported to gvfs, but slomo and I told Joss to talk to upstream [11:31] pitti: not any more, I'll remove it from the seeds [11:31] Riddell: thanks [11:31] sjoerd: Conclusion was let upstream now [11:31] *know [11:31] * lool got to run for lunch now [11:31] :) [11:36] lool: did he already talk with upstream? [11:39] pitti: I think gnome-vfs-obexftp can go to universe since we use gvfs now, confirm with the mobile team though [11:39] seb128: right, done above; demoted, thank you [11:40] you are welcome [11:46] mvo: ok thanks. I asked because I had a gutsy vm and tried to upgrade to hardy, and only do-release-upgrade would work. Internal error couldn't configure tzdata (or some such) [11:51] mvo: if you're interested, I could recreate the gutsy vm and get the exact error (I since used do-release-upgrade and lost the exact message) [12:16] cjwatson: clock-setup started to depend on rdate-udeb; is that deliberate, or should it actually use ntpdate? === cjwatson_ is now known as cjwatson [12:16] it's deliberate actually, I've been meaning to ask for a MIR for it [12:18] there was a long discussion which did include ntpdate, though I don't recall why they chose rdate [12:18] * cjwatson tries to find out [12:19] cjwatson: ok, thanks; if it's deliberate, I'll look at it [12:19] cjwatson: heh, bug 191224 [12:19] Launchpad bug 191224 in rdate "Rdate-udeb not installed during installation per clock-setup's dependencies" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/191224 [12:20] it uses it in SNTP mode [12:20] not trad rdate (rfc868) [12:21] slomo: No idea [12:23] cjwatson: looks harmless enough to me, and Debian maintenance is adequate [12:24] we'd only need the udeb; you could leave the deb in universe [12:24] cjwatson: I closed the bug for MIR promotion; does it need a d-i rebuild? (in that case I shuold reopen it) [12:24] oh, no, that isn't true, clock-setup would want rdate (deb) when used in ubiquity [12:25] ok, I promoted the entire source for now [12:25] (-S) [12:25] clock-setup isn't in the initrd so it doesn't need a d-i rebuild [12:25] thanks! === cody-somerville_ is now known as cody-somerville [12:30] Can someone please push gnumerics? [12:33] cody-somerville: it's a new upstream version, and doesn't mention any bug report in the changelog [12:33] pitti, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnumeric/+bug/199874 [12:33] Launchpad bug 199874 in gnumeric "[FFe] Please merge gnumeric 1.8.2-1 from debian unstable" [Medium,In progress] [12:34] pitti, Sorry about forgetting the bug number. [12:34] ok; it doesn't affect the CDs, so it's safe enough for the beta freeze [12:35] just dont break it ... i use it on the classmate image [12:36] :S [12:36] If it breaks, you can slap me around a bit in Prague. [12:37] * Hobbsee slaps cody-somerville around a bit regardless. [12:43] :) [12:48] pitti, I have a question to you, for both Saivanns MOTU course and my core-dev course ... [12:49] there are courses now? [13:20] pitti hi, is there anything that I could do to help with https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/elisa/+bug/186647 ? [13:20] Launchpad bug 186647 in pigment "promote to main" [Undecided,New] [14:05] Riddell: do you know about this file overwrite error in koffice: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5677/ [14:05] (gutsy->hardy) [14:07] mvo: I do not [14:08] mvo: thanks, will fix [14:08] mvo: packages on today's CDs seem all good [14:08] Riddell: thanks [14:08] Riddell: great! === wasabi` is now known as wasabi === ogra_cmpc__ is now known as ogra_cmpc [14:40] * lamont has a spousal-support issue... [14:40] oh dear [14:41] so we upgraded her machine from feisty to gutsy finally, and now clicking on links in evo fails to bring up firefox [14:41] of course, when she had feisty on the machine, it brought up mozilla... [14:41] so... what do I whack where to teach evo that it should use firefox instead of mozilla. [14:41] ?? [14:42] system, preferences, preferred apps [14:42] woot [14:42] lamont: works? [14:43] *HUGS* [14:43] :D [14:44] and I misspoke. she had 'custom: mozilla-firefox %s' configured for the web browser [14:44] yep, that'll do it [14:44] (open in new tab, in same window, iirc) [14:44] * lamont has no idea which release originally got installed on that machine, but it's been dist-upgraded ever sense [14:44] since, even [14:45] root@mitzi:~# which mozilla-firefox [14:45] root@mitzi:~# [14:45] actually, it does nothing. [14:45] it's a transitional package [14:45] and it's grey'ed out on the screen [14:50] lamont: is that in hardy? [14:50] (aka ffox 3) [14:51] asac: that's on a $ancient install, dist-upgraded through feisty to gutsy [14:51] so ffox 2 [14:51] we just finally ran into it being broken. [14:52] (so, sorry for the support questions for ancient releases (e.g., gutsy) in this channel.... my bad and all that..) [14:53] OTOH, I married an irish redhead. [14:53] asac: is it know that ff3 occasionally gets bored and starts in offline mode? [14:53] thom: wtf??? [14:53] sounds like a nm problem [14:54] thom: what does networkmanager show you [14:54] thom: how are you online? [14:54] ff queries that now, no? [14:54] yes it does [14:54] thom: there is a known issue that nm doesn't say its "online" if you are using ppp [14:55] thom: if you have such a setup i would be happy to work with you to get it resolved [14:55] asac: wired [14:55] well, you migh proabbly get races if the system is under heavy load and nm doesnt answer in time [14:55] hrm, nm applet claims not to have any network devices [14:56] i guess that would probably do it [14:56] thom, it wont if you defined them in /e/n/i [14:56] thom: please paste your /etc/network/interfaces [14:58] asac: http://pastie.caboo.se/165688 === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach === \sh is now known as \sh_away [14:59] thom: how does the nm applet icon look like? [14:59] just two black screens? [14:59] or is there a red cross? [14:59] two black screens, triangle with an exclamation mark [15:02] can you please restart network manager and see if it still looks the same? [15:02] you say that its randomly? so sometimes network manager doesn't think its offline? [15:03] It seems odd that Ubuntu gives me the option of launching software off of a Windows CD [15:03] Which of course does not work. [15:03] it seems like about 90% of the time i get offline mode [15:03] thom: please try to restart network manager to see if the triangle really goes away sometimes [15:04] and file a bug posting your /var/log/syslog ... and your /etc/network/interfaces above [15:04] might be a bug in our eni parser [15:05] k [15:05] i'll play around a bit [15:05] thanks [15:05] would be wired if its really random [15:05] but you never know [15:06] any particular reason that the manifest is old on http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/ , but the image isn't? [15:06] clobbering all of /e/n/i means that it sees my wired network at least [15:07] does this mean the live stuff was generated 2 days ago but just used again in today's image? [15:07] thom: looking at your eni i don't think you really want that [15:07] network manager should do what you attempt to do imo [15:08] i think so too [15:09] but i figured i'd try === \sh_away is now known as \sh [15:23] * Mithrandir sighs over the back/forward buttons on the mouse being broken in latest firefox. [15:24] hum.... does anybody with an x40 have no working volume-up / volume-down display in hardy? [15:25] dholbach: Works for me. [15:25] hrm [15:25] how do I do the "grab keycode" thing again? [15:25] dholbach: Running metacity, though. [15:26] Won't work. [15:26] dholbach: xev? [15:26] It doesn't emit keycodes, afair. [15:26] you'Re right, it doesn't [15:26] thanks Mithrandir [15:26] It just changes the volume which "something" notices. [15:26] somehow I don't get the fancy onscreen dialog anymore [15:26] ahhhh ok [15:26] dbus-monitor might help [15:27] but you need some sane filtering i guess [15:27] (wherever the event comes from, it will go through dbus) [15:31] <\sh> cjwatson: I replied on your mail to u-d-d about the ldflags story...to claim it here, no I didn't press anyone to investigate in this, because I thought those settings were tested at least with our toolchain/libc chain.. [15:31] * \sh always thinks it's just him who stumble upon those probs... [15:33] \sh: we had done a test rebuild of glibc, but as it turns out the test rebuild didn't build anything else *against* that glibc build [15:34] \sh: the next test rebuild will use its own output where it can, I'm told, to increase the chance of catching these problems [15:35] ok... at least the sound works again [15:36] (skype doesn't but that's probably unrelated :)) [15:38] tkamppeter: re [15:38] twi_: right, I'll look at those today [15:39] pitti great [15:39] <\sh> cjwatson: well, all this can happen...if I had known what were the flags I would have searched earlier on in wines bugzilla for this damn bug with strange LDFLAGs ;) anyways...the next time we know what to do :) [15:40] \sh: I wasn't trying to interrogate you, FWIW; I just want to gather as much information as I can about the events leading up to this [15:42] although if you ask "why didn't somebody else notice this", your own actions are relevant too :-) === allee_ is now known as allee [15:43] I noticed it when libc broke :) [15:43] which is, after all, the whole point of open development releases [15:43] to break libc? *g* [15:43] <\sh> cjwatson: yeah...but even reading the changelogs of all important uploads (dpkg, gcc etc.) after wine 0.9.54 wasn't giving me any clue about the real bugger...and TBH we were walking in the dark...(actually I never watched closely to the output of LDFLAGS setting during builds) [15:44] sistpoty|work: to have lots of people testing them, so when things inevitably break, we know about them [15:44] Keybuk: sure, was just kidding... sorry if inappropriate [15:44] Keybuk, the point is to keep it working, not breaking, breaking in an unexpected event :P [15:44] Lamego: ish, the point is to release something that's working [15:45] <\sh> Keybuk: I think it would be cool to have a PPA for changes to dpkg, e.g. for testing sane flags, as it was introduced, because those little flags can make a real difference ;) [15:45] \sh: they were discussed for ages before introduction [15:45] with some of the foremost experts debating it [15:46] we didn't know of anything that would break [15:46] now we know what does :) [15:46] <\sh> Keybuk: do you have a pointer of the discussion or actually the flags being discussed, because reading the wiki page about it wasn't enough for me to get the changes [15:47] not off-hand, I only briefly took part in it [15:47] it was discussed at UDS [15:47] in fact, I think my entire contribution was "is that like -Bsymbolic, but just for functions? neat" [15:47] that reminds me, anyone ever figure out why icedtea is broken on amd64 when built by the buildds? [15:47] has been since gutsy [15:49] tbh, I don't see why the libc problem has as much attention as it does [15:50] to me, it was a perfectly ordinary "development event" [15:50] Amaranth: isn't the current plan to get openjdk-6 replace icedtea? [15:50] <\sh> cjwatson: yes, I would have guessed, as it's written on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistCompilerFlags but not "what will change, what are the real flags etc." and people knowing about stuff which was discussed at UDS without attending (even remotely) is somehow not possible ;) [15:50] <\sh> Keybuk: well, it was fun for people not prepared for those things ;) [15:50] \sh: the discussions at UDS are streamed on both VoIP and icecast [15:51] \sh: if you're running a development release, you *should* be prepared [15:51] I know that I've personally rendered past development releases unupgradeable (I broke dpkg) and unbootable [15:51] xhaker: I imagine it'll have the same problem [15:51] <\sh> Keybuk: not everyone can sit at work and listening to voip / icecast streams...so I wonder if it's feasable to document the outcome of those discussions after those changes are settled [15:52] Keybuk: Yeah, thanks for that, by the way :P [15:52] Amaranth: what kind of broken are you experiencing? [15:52] xhaker: bug 152362 [15:52] Launchpad bug 152362 in icedtea-java7 "icedtea-java7-plugin always crashes firefox" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/152362 [15:53] <\sh> Keybuk: and actually I was amused about the borked glibc...because I was waiting for this all the time during hardy cycle ;) [15:54] \sh: indeed, that spec says that LDFLAGS will be empty by default and so is actively wrong [15:54] I'll edit it now to reflect reality [15:55] Keybuk: this was interesting because it was simultaneously unupgradeable and unbootable [15:55] thekorn, bdmurray: could it be that the text interface's milestone filtering is broken? [15:55] \sh: isn't that exactly what the specification attempts to do? [15:56] (note - attempts) [15:56] thekorn, bdmurray: you can try bug 95168 (which is milestoned as 'later') [15:56] Launchpad bug 95168 in update-manager "please make distro-specific strings a build-time parameter" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/95168 [15:56] specifications can only ever accurately represent the precise way in which we're *not* going to do it [15:57] I would love to be able to have my local bash as a contact in pidgin. That’d be awesome ^_^ [15:57] …just randomly thought of that. [15:57] Oh yeah, we’ll get that after we dismantle the window paradigm; nevermind. That may be a while…. [15:57] sorry [15:57]