=== Varka_ is now known as Varka === tritium is now known as [NM]tritium === [NM]tritium is now known as tritium[NM] === nealmcb is now known as nealmcb[CO] === nealmcb[CO] is now known as nealmcb === _RoAkSoAx is now known as RoAkSoAx === \sh_away is now known as \sh === cjwatson_ is now known as cjwatson === ogra_cmpc__ is now known as ogra_cmpc === emonkey-t is now known as emonkey === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach === \sh is now known as \sh_away === \sh_away is now known as \sh === allee_ is now known as allee === mc44_ is now known as mc44 === johnc4511 is now known as johnc4510 === ogra_cmpc is now known as ogra === \sh is now known as \sh_away === asac_ is now known as asac === ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: MOTU Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 14 Mar 21:00 UTC: REVU Coordination | 19 Mar 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 26 Mar 21:00 UTC: Server Team [19:57] hello everybody :) [20:01] * pochu waves [20:02] Are starting? [20:02] .. we .. [20:04] hi folks === siretart_ is now known as siretart [20:04] hoi :) [20:04] It'd be nice if someone who has it handy would throw in the link to the agenda. [20:05] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings [20:05] Thanks [20:05] np [20:07] anybody here? [20:07] No [20:07] * siretart hides [20:07] We haven't started yet [20:07] #startmeeting [20:07] Meeting started at 20:07. The chair is hellboy195. [20:07] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [20:08] ah [20:08] What have I done xD [20:08] You're in charge now. Lead the discussion. [20:08] hellboy195: you volunteered to chair the meeting! thanks for that! :) [20:08] We aren't kidding. [20:08] I'll try [20:08] Welcome to the MOTU Meeting for 14th March 2008. The agenda is available on the wiki. [20:09] Already kindly posted by pochu [20:09] [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings [20:09] LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings [20:09] so let's start [20:09] should Ubuntu Membership be a general requirement for MOTUship? [20:10] I'm no motu. so please talk ^^ [20:10] question: is this question supposed to be decided here, or do we gather opinions from attendees? [20:10] That's LaserJock's topic [20:11] keep in mind there are also edubuntu and kubuntu members IIRC [20:11] siretart: I think it should at least discussed here [20:11] well [20:11] I thought it was already kinda settled [20:11] I like the idea of MC being able to give out membership with becoming MOTU, but also before so that if someone meets the criteria for membership, but isn't ready to be MOTU yet. [20:11] the idea is that Membership is a lower bar than MOTUship [20:11] ScottK++ [20:12] so people should be becoming members before MOTUs [20:12] just as a general rule of thumb [20:12] I'd say it might be concurrent. [20:12] if somebody just hasn't gotten around to it then concurrent membership/MOTUship is fine [20:12] But right now MC can make a MOTU (which also makes them a member), but hasn't done just member. [20:12] but this should be a way of recognizing good work in MOTU [20:12] without feeling like MOTUship needs to be granted [20:13] and it also allows the MC to see a candidate twice [20:13] gives them a better feel for the person before the MOTU application [20:13] Agreed. [20:13] Think of this case: A (more or less) known Debian Developer decides he wants to upload 'his' packages to ubuntu. so he hangs around on our mailing lists, helps out on IRC channels, does malone work etc. If he asks for upload priviledges, should we refer him to the CC first? [20:13] siretart: I think this is for a decision. [20:13] siretart: he doesn't go to the CC, but to the MC [20:14] siretart: I think that what's on the table is MC also giving out the membership. CC is trying to get out of the member business [20:14] LaserJock: that would imply the MC is able to grant ubuntu membership status, because that is a prequisite of ubuntu developer status, right? [20:14] yes [20:14] which basically has been implied from the beginning of the MC [20:15] Agreed. [20:15] I believer that the CC has explicitly said this. It's not just an inferred ability [20:15] well, I agree that this is a good idea. I don't know if the MC is already empowered to do that, but if not, I personally think if would be a good idea to empower the MC then [20:15] yes, it has recently been reaffirmed by the CC [20:15] ok. great then! [20:15] Accepted? [20:16] it has alway had the power in that MOTUship automatically gains Membership [20:16] but it has now been explicitly given I believe [20:16] hellboy195: I think you can [VOTE] it when the discussion is over ;) [20:16] I think we ought to have a vote. Do we need more disscussion? [20:16] one sec [20:16] pochu: thank you. I'm doing it the first time ^^ [20:16] let me find the email [20:17] pochu: I think I have to set the topic first? :) [20:17] this is what was OK's by the CC: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Council/GrantingMembership [20:18] *OK'd [20:18] hellboy195: I'm not sure, but you can set it anyway ;) [20:18] pochu: ^^ k. tell me if you need a vote :) [20:18] so I guess we can vote to affirm that? [20:19] [TOPIC] should Ubuntu Membership be a general requirement for MOTUship? [20:19] New Topic: should Ubuntu Membership be a general requirement for MOTUship? [20:19] [VOTE] should Ubuntu Membership be a general requirement for MOTUship? [20:19] Please vote on: should Ubuntu Membership be a general requirement for MOTUship?. [20:19] Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to MootBot [20:19] E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting [20:19] +1 [20:19] +1 received from pochu. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1 [20:19] +1 [20:19] +1 received from LaserJock. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2 [20:19] +1 [20:19] +1 received from siretart. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3 [20:19] That means that MC can grant membership separately, right? [20:19] yes [20:19] +1 [20:19] +1 received from ScottK. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4 [20:19] +1 [20:19] +1 received from DktrKranz. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5 [20:20] who and how many can vote? [20:20] I was just wondering that, but if it doesn't we need another vote ;) [20:20] I guess any MOTUs, not sure about MOTU wannabes [20:21] PLEASE VOTE IF YOU HAVEN'T! [20:21] We are making Membership a requirement of MOTUship and letting MC grant Membership before and up-to MOTUship [20:21] Voting if for MOTUs, IIRC. Anyone is welcome to be involved in the discussion. [20:22] LaserJock: alright. Looks like we have an agreement ;) [20:22] excellent [20:23] crimsun: I'm curious that you haven't voted? [20:23] LAST CHANCE [20:23] But I think it's clear [20:23] ^^ [20:23] * ScottK would prefer we wait a moment for crimsun [20:23] k [20:24] +1 [20:24] +1 received from crimsun. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6 [20:24] (sorry, this window's not active) [20:24] OK [20:24] [AGREED] Ubuntu Membership should be a general requirement for MOTUship. MC grant Membership before and up-to MOTUship. [20:24] AGREED received: Ubuntu Membership should be a general requirement for MOTUship. MC grant Membership before and up-to MOTUship. [20:24] hellboy195: You need to ENDVOTE too. [20:24] [ENDVOTE] [20:24] Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6 [20:25] ScottK: thx [20:25] Next Topic [20:25] [TOPIC] Should we establish some "u-u-s days" to clear u-u-s queue as much as possible before release day? LucaFalavigna [20:25] New Topic: Should we establish some "u-u-s days" to clear u-u-s queue as much as possible before release day? LucaFalavigna [20:25] DktrKranz: maybe you want to say something [20:26] I would like to propose a couple of days to review patches in ubuntu-universe-sponsors queue [20:26] similar to what we do for REVU days [20:26] how many "Days" do we have so far? [20:26] https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-universe-sponsors/ [20:26] hellboy195: ^ can you link it? [20:26] pochu: sure [20:27] LaserJock: there's none afaik [20:27] [LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-universe-sponsors/ [20:27] LINK received: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-universe-sponsors/ [20:27] well, we have REVU Day [20:27] It was every Monday for REVU days, we could do the same for u-u-s now that we are not doing REVU [20:27] Hug Day [20:27] LaserJock, hardy release is scheduled for april 24th, so we have 3 weeks at least [20:27] We aren't doing review days right now, so it doesn't conflict with that. I think that's the only one we have [20:27] LaserJock: right, I mean there's none for u-u-s yet [20:27] I'm taking about general " * Day" programs [20:27] You can figure on being ablet to upload for Universe up to at least Sunday before the release. [20:28] so, if we plan to have one a week, we can schedule three of them [20:28] hmm [20:28] an alternative would be to have more targeted days [20:29] On the other hand, putting them on Mondays would mean it's just until Hardy is released... so a different day would be a good idea to get it continued in Intrepid [20:29] rather than "clear the queue" it's "Let's hit RC bugs closed in Debian" or "FTFBS" or some such important thing that needs to be done [20:29] well, that would be a different topic, wouldn't it? ;) [20:29] LaserJock, unluckily, we miss tools for that actually :( [20:29] right, I'm just saying [20:29] ah, ok [20:29] ubuntuwire is down [20:30] that that might be a better way to figure out days [20:30] well then we need to find other hosting for it [20:30] my FTBFS list is now temporarily also on another host [20:30] throw it in a wiki page, I don't care :-0 [20:30] just get'er done! [20:31] I've added the URL already to the wiki page [20:31] geser: awesome [20:31] so if we had a general u-u-s clearing day to start with [20:31] if I could also remember which page it was :) [20:32] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO [20:32] then a couple topic days [20:32] yes, that was the page [20:32] we can restore RC bugs, we need ajmitch around for that [20:33] ok so there's also "really-fix-it" [20:33] hoi sistpoty [20:33] hi hellboy195 [20:33] really-fix-it: http://daniel.holba.ch/really-fix-it/ [20:33] not sure if the gfortran transition would be a candidate, but that's another idea [20:33] sistpoty: I'm chairman. funny isn't it ^^ [20:33] I just tried to call imbrandon and got no answer. [20:33] is ajmitch still around? have seen him active lately [20:33] hellboy195: heh [20:34] geser: he was around last night [20:34] briefly [20:34] (sorry, wanted to be here half an hour ago, but was on the phone, my ear is bleeding now *g*) [20:34] it's a shame we missed several QA tools for Hardy :( [20:34] yes, but let's not let that stop us [20:35] of course not [20:35] even a wiki page that's gets update maybe once a day or something would work [20:35] so what needs to get done for Hardy? [20:35] so we could have a few days for u-u-s queue and some more for specific topics, such as FTBFS or uninstallable packages? [20:35] We have the box that Dell donated running. I'd say we ought to start using it under some temporary DNS name and quit waiting [20:36] pochu: mind that too many are also not that good [20:36] pochu: I think it's maybe better to define days around a specific topic rather than a process [20:36] pochu: so we'll clear the queue as we're hitting a target [20:37] LaserJock: right, the topic is "clear the u-u-s queue" :) [20:37] but 1 general queue day may be needed to start with [20:37] but that's not a very interesting topic [20:37] lol [20:37] we do need to clear the queue, but the point of all of this is to get something done [20:37] FTBFS, or really-fix-it, or ... [20:38] well IMHO 61 bugs in the queue mean 61 contributions we don't have in the archive [20:38] ScottK: isn't Fujitsu running a rebuildd already there? [20:38] they be bug fixes, updates, merges, syncs or whatever [20:38] I know I know [20:38] geser: I'm not sure. [20:38] that's why I said the first should be a general clear the queue day [20:38] ScottK: http://builder.ubuntuwire.qeuni.net:9998/ [20:38] but we should frame the efforts around a topic that needs to get done [20:38] because we have a lot to get done [20:39] LaserJock, currently we have the queue, FTBFS, NBS available, we can arrange to add RC bugs and debcheck [20:39] so, there will be chance to have a look at several aspects [20:40] I'd say having 2 days a week might be good/possible [20:40] I think so [20:40] try to get some focus around some problems before Hardy's out the door [20:40] geser, any chance to run piuparts/upgrade testing? [20:41] so things we need: [20:41] 1) date [20:41] 2) to do list [20:41] 3) MOTUs around to clear the queue [20:41] 4) promotion and energy [20:42] DktrKranz: does piuparts work now in hardy? last I did a quick look at it (some months ago) I had problems get it running [20:42] geser, I merged it and it seemed functional [20:43] so folks. in generel. Introduce a u-u-s day? [20:43] or do we need a vote? [20:43] Technically we should vote. [20:43] And are we voting on one or two per week? [20:43] I'd say two, so we'll cover many bugs [20:43] ScottK: good question [20:43] one or two u-u-s days, or general days? [20:44] I guess the latter [20:44] pochu: I really think they are intertwined [20:45] my fear would be that maybe calling it "u-u-s Day" would turn on non-MOTUs [20:45] *off [20:45] I think getting things done in general means also clearing the queue [20:45] Ok, I'm concentrating a bit in the current topic [20:45] which is "whether to schedule some days to clear the u-u-s queue" [20:46] right, but my point is that maybe that's not exactly the topic that we should be discussing [20:46] LaserJock: how can non-MOTUs help with processing the u-u-s queue? [20:46] siretart: fill it [20:46] siretart: they can't really, hence my objection to just calling it u-u-s day [20:46] u-u-s is merely a process thing [20:47] well, that's what we actually want to acheive, no? [20:47] I say no [20:47] Fix it day? [20:47] we want to achieve is fixing things [20:47] hug dholbach day? [20:47] u-u-s is certainly a part of that [20:48] DktrKranz: any suggestion? [20:48] but my concern is that if we focus too much on the process rather than the larger target [20:48] to start with it'd sure be nice to have a clean queue, so spending one day on just that seems worthwhile [20:49] but more broadly, we need to figure out what things *need* to be done before Hardy is out the door and make sure they get done [20:49] right? [20:49] "MOTU Hug days", as we had in the past sounds good to me, but naming it is not high-prio, is what we can do that will count [20:50] pochu: so what about "Sponsorship Days"? [20:50] first one being general and then targeted ones thereafter? [20:51] does that address your specific concern? [20:51] I don't care for the name, but the first for u-u-s clean up sounds good, yes [20:51] pochu: Sonsorship Days? [20:52] 'reviewing days'? [20:52] ok [20:52] the name isn't important [20:52] Ubuntu love days :) [20:52] I mean, most of the queue right now is python-xml [20:52] and there's not that many really [20:52] siretart: wouldn't that make people exect REVU reviews? [20:52] * persia is catching up, but worried that special days may reduce daily effort [20:53] persia: do you think that's bad? [20:53] persia: heya [20:53] geser: well, we are in feature freeze, so u-u-s has clearly priority. and since chances are low to get it cleared, we won't really have time to look at REVU [20:53] at this point in the release cycle, I'd be more concerned about getting stuff _into_ the queue. Is there a plan for testing dist-upgrades from dapper and gutsy? [20:53] persia: I'm chairman. Would you mind helping me a little bit (First try ^^) [20:53] so just reusing REVU days seems natural to me [20:53] * sistpoty isn't sure in general about if special days are good or bad, but sispoty must admit to never fit his ubuntu work to current days [20:54] hellboy195: You're doing fine [20:54] persia: thanks [20:54] LaserJock: Yes, I think daily effort is important to keeping the queue mananagable [20:54] persia: well, I guess that's maybe my point though about not focusing on the queue but rather the target [20:55] LaserJock: when did it start with python-xml remobals? [20:55] *removals [20:55] the queue should pretty much work itself out if we're focusing on getting things done, right? [20:55] Well, except people need to look at it :) [20:55] well, they have to have a *reason* to look at it [20:56] hence having targets [20:56] why not roll the 5-a-day? Your 5 daily could be u-u-s targets. [20:56] crimsun: nice [20:56] crimsun: That already counts [20:56] One question I have is are we after more sponsorship or more stuff to sponsor? [20:56] * persia wants both [20:56] my 5-a-day is filled mostly with u-u-s bugs :) [20:57] I want us sponsoring the stuff that matters [20:57] I don't really care to sponsor typo fixes and let FTBFS go [20:58] LaserJock: I suppose typo fixes aren't that hard to review and don't take a long time [20:58] no, but it's distraction and waste [20:58] and often can take just as long as a FTBFS [20:59] LaserJock: I agree with you to do only stuff that matters [20:59] LaserJock: Surely that decision can be made by an individual sponsor, no? [20:59] persia: but if the quest is to "clear the queue" [21:00] I'd say the quest is clear the queue of anything useful. [21:00] LaserJock: Sure. I guess I'm advocating more quests, with "clear the queue" as a minor one. [21:00] persia: I agree totally [21:00] how many bugs are we looking at right now to clear the queue? [21:00] ~30 or so? === ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: REVU Coordination Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 19 Mar 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 26 Mar 21:00 UTC: Server Team [21:01] Speaking of which, I was talking with ajmitch in IRC today and he said he isn't running his RC tracker this release in part because he thinks it's redundant. I'd appreciate a pointer on what it's redundant to so I can use that? [21:01] ScottK, I'm not aware of something similar than browsing at MoM or DaD for changelog entries [21:02] I found it immensely useful in determining which merges need focus post-feature freeze [21:02] His other reason was no static IP. [21:02] it's a difficult list to come by [21:02] LaserJock: Currently 62. It starts being considered large after ~30 [21:02] but maybe an approximation [21:02] Maybe someone could convince him to help set it up on our new box? [21:03] ScottK: if the static IP was the problem, I think that could be arranged [21:03] persia: but not all of those are in need of action? usually there's "cruft" [21:03] ScottK, if it's not so bandwith-consuming, I can have a static IP [21:03] it takes being a DD I believe [21:03] LaserJock: Quite possibly. [21:03] those python-xml removal shouldn't be there for example [21:03] at least not all of them, perhaps one or two :) [21:04] siretart: Would you be willing to follow up with him? [21:04] if we can have him run the cron and scp the results somewhere that might work [21:04] ok [21:05] so I think we're all agree we need a "clear the u-u-s queue" day [21:05] ScottK: I haven't caught him for a while now, but I'll be happy to talk to him about that [21:05] shall we vote real quick to get that down? [21:05] I think so [21:05] LaserJock: so what do you want excatly to be voted? [21:06] siretart: Please do. [21:06] hmm [21:06] pochu: what do you think? [21:06] I was thinking we can just vote to have a single u-u-s day ASAP [21:06] and then deal with the other targets maybe on ubuntu-motu [21:06] LaserJock: single or two? [21:07] I'd be in favor of a one-off UUS day to chase things, and then going back to normal, but not a regular UUS day. [21:07] I think a single would clear the current queue [21:07] then have targeted days for FTBFS, etc. [21:07] DktrKranz: can you live with only one day? [21:07] where I think we can emphasize that we need MOTUs to clear the queues on that day [21:07] hellboy195, I think we can :) [21:08] [VOTE] Do we need a (single) "clear the u-u-s queue" day? [21:08] Please vote on: Do we need a (single) "clear the u-u-s queue" day?. [21:08] Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to MootBot [21:08] E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting [21:08] +1 [21:08] +1 received from LaserJock. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1 [21:08] +1 [21:08] +1 received from DktrKranz. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2 [21:09] +1 [21:09] +1 received from persia. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3 [21:09] +1 [21:09] +1 received from sistpoty. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4 [21:09] +1 [21:09] +1 received from geser. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5 [21:09] crimsun: vote :) [21:10] +1 [21:10] +1 received from pochu. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6 [21:10] +1 [21:10] +1 received from ScottK. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7 [21:10] I don't think we need more? [21:11] we are consuming persia's time as he has a REVU coordinator meeting right now :) [21:11] ^^ [21:11] hellboy195: Likely not, as there aren't any negative votes (and we ought start the next meeting) [21:12] [ENDVOTE] [21:12] Final result is 7 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 7 [21:12] so we schedule a u-u-s clean up day, then we have some bug days? [21:12] [AGREED] We need a single "clear the u-u-s queue" day. [21:12] AGREED received: We need a single "clear the u-u-s queue" day. [21:12] For other goals, we can send out a mail as persia did at the beginning of Hardy cycle [21:13] ok. what next? [21:13] define the day? [21:13] We could even send separate mails for each goal. [21:13] DktrKranz: Would you be willing to schedule and announce the UUS day? [21:14] persia, I'll do [21:15] I think we could use an email to ubuntu-motu just kinda kicking around idea for targets [21:16] "what's important, do we have the lists we need, etc." [21:16] * persia hears someone volunteering to send mail [21:16] [ACTION] DktrKranz to schedule and announce the UUS day [21:16] ACTION received: DktrKranz to schedule and announce the UUS day [21:16] I'll volunteer if people think it's a good idea [21:17] sounds good [21:18] [ACTION] LaserJock to send out an mail to ubuntu-motu. [21:18] ACTION received: LaserJock to send out an mail to ubuntu-motu. [21:18] heh [21:18] that's kind of a general action [21:18] hm? [21:18] you send it and we answer ;) [21:18] It was a general proposal :) [21:19] * LaserJock sends out a letter explaining the benefits of cavity ringdown spectroscopy as an effective means of determining rotational orientation in surface adsorbed molecular motors [21:19] ah ^^ [21:19] * sistpoty won't review your paper, LaserJock :P [21:19] * pochu agrees whatever that means :P [21:19] sistpoty: dang [21:20] so. folks. what's next [21:20] sistpoty: if you understand everything from it then LaserJock should redo it :) [21:20] are we finished with this topic? [21:20] geser: I understood "letter" and "explaining" [21:20] hellboy195: yes and we are out of time I believe [21:20] ah [21:21] Agenda is empty. any new topic. FAST? [21:21] let's kick some butt and make Hardy ROCK!!! [21:21] ^^ [21:21] ok then [21:21] * ScottK2 understood sends too. [21:21] [TOPIC] Next MOTU Meeting Date [21:21] New Topic: Next MOTU Meeting Date [21:21] I thought we agreed on a rotation, making the next 12:00 UTC 28th March. [21:21] two weeks from now, regular rotation? [21:22] persia: sry. Didn't know that [21:22] oh, did we have 4.00 utc last time, persia? [21:22] (or was this time dropped) [21:22] Err.. I always forget that one. Sorry. 04:00 UTC [21:22] * pochu out for dinner [21:23] * RainCT is sorry for being late [21:23] [AGREED] Next meeting 04:00 UTC 28th March. [21:23] AGREED received: Next meeting 04:00 UTC 28th March. [21:24] Any last words? [21:24] Thanks to hellboy195 for chairing. [21:24] * DktrKranz must leave now. I'll read backscroll [21:25] DktrKranz: bye [21:25] ScottK: hmm. I hope it wasn't that bad :\ [21:25] #endmeeting [21:25] Meeting finished at 21:25. [21:25] thanks hellboy195! [21:25] thanks hellboy195 [21:26] yeah np ^^ [21:26] hellboy195: good job [21:26] OK. On to the next meeting... [21:26]