| laga | gregbrady: http://www.naomifilter.org/ <- maybe that's something for ya | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| gregbrady | let me check, thanks | 00:02 |
| laga | although i wonder if that will work on linux.. there are some links to other filters, though | 00:02 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | i know someone had a dansguardian replacement project in LP, cant remember how far it had got though | 00:06 |
| gregbrady | Kamping_Kaiser, you have both given me great links to start with. | 00:14 |
| gregbrady | Does edubuntu not come with a software package? | 00:18 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | gregbrady, OOTB? not that i'm aware of | 00:19 |
| laga | my school installed a great filtering system which blocked lots of useful sites. yay. :/ | 00:19 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | most tend to do that. | 00:20 |
| gregbrady | yeah, I can understand that.....filtering is a tough thing to do. | 00:20 |
| laga | yup. those "one size fits all" systems don't work well in a school where you people as young as 10 and as old as 20 | 00:21 |
| laga | i wodner if they still have those win98 workstations. i'd love to deploy LTSP there | 00:21 |
| gregbrady | I wish LTSP would work over a wireless network | 00:22 |
| laga | it does. you just have to have the kernel on a pen drive/cd rom on the client.. | 00:22 |
| gregbrady | yes, but what about the server? | 00:22 |
| laga | the server is connected to the wireless network? | 00:23 |
| gregbrady | Yes, all servers and clients are wireless. Nothing wired. | 00:23 |
| laga | i'm not sure if desktop latency will be great over a wireless link, though. it should be ok for one client.. | 00:23 |
| laga | gregbrady: as long as there is a network connection you should be OK. | 00:24 |
| laga | note: i'm not saying it's very practical.. i'm just saying it can be done :) | 00:24 |
| laga | you will need an additional which brings up the network interface before the client boots | 00:24 |
| gregbrady | laga, nope, didn't work. I gave it a shot. Apparently the server must be wired. | 00:24 |
| laga | gregbrady: you probably didn't have the initramfs script which connects the wireless interface to the network before the client boots | 00:26 |
| laga | that's the essential part | 00:26 |
| gregbrady | laga, that could very well be the case....I only tried it once. | 00:27 |
| laga | gregbrady: it's not terribly useful, imho. nothing to worry about. :) | 00:27 |
| gregbrady | I will try it again when I have enough of a free time block to allow it. | 00:27 |
| gregbrady | For now, it is more important to be able to control my son's internet access. I want to make sure he has access, but not to the stuff that he stumbled upon today. | 00:28 |
| gregbrady | So, if I set up a proxy, then the proxy machine must always be running with a static IP? I have 5 machines here in the house where everyone has access and one main machine acting as a sort of server. | 00:36 |
| gregbrady | any good online guides to setting up a proxy server? | 00:47 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | theres an edubuntu proxy guide in the wiki | 01:00 |
| lanuser | Hello - I've install edubuntu on a ThinkPad T40 but I can't get the splashscreen or fbdev support to work | 03:17 |
| johnny_ | you might get more help in #ubuntu | 03:17 |
| lanuser | ok thanks johnny | 03:17 |
| === mario_ is now known as pygi | ||
| jonathan__ | who's around and awake? :) | 12:00 |
| pygi | highvoltage, what ya need? | 12:01 |
| === jono is now known as highvoltage | ||
| === spacey_ is now known as spacey | ||
| JDme | hi | 16:18 |
| JDme | can someone tell me | 16:18 |
| JDme | the desktop version is for my clients? | 16:19 |
| JDme | right? | 16:19 |
| JDme | and the Classroom server CD | 16:19 |
| JDme | will be the terminal server | 16:19 |
| JDme | and the Classroom server add-on CD is just for the server | 16:20 |
| laga | if you want diskless clients you don't need to install anything on your clients | 16:20 |
| JDme | like no hard drives at all? on the clients | 16:21 |
| JDme | is that what you mean? | 16:21 |
| JDme | I was thinking if the clients did have hard drives... | 16:22 |
| JDme | it would thak some of the load off the server | 16:22 |
| laga | well, you're going to build a termianl server, right? so all applications are running on the server anyways | 16:22 |
| laga | s/termianl/terminal/ | 16:23 |
| JDme | how powerfull a server will I need? | 16:23 |
| JDme | I think ther might be 30 PCs in a room | 16:24 |
| JDme | I think there might be 30 PCs in a room | 16:24 |
| laga | i'm not sure, i've never deployed LTSP in a real world situation.. i'm sure someone in here knows, though | 16:24 |
| JDme | im new to this as well!!! but I do have linux experience | 16:26 |
| JDme | at the moment I just put edubuntu on the clients | 16:26 |
| JDme | and I dont use a server | 16:27 |
| JDme | where might I find some example setups documentation | 16:28 |
| laga | www.edubuntu.org might be a good starting point.. and their wiki | 16:28 |
| JDme | ok Ta | 16:29 |
| pygi | JDme, there's the outdated Handbook which can give you info about server requirements | 16:31 |
| pygi | sample at least | 16:31 |
| JDme | yea Ive just found this EdubuntuCookbook | 16:34 |
| pygi | JDme, yea, that info can also be found there | 16:34 |
| JDme | ah this is what I was looking for....:) | 16:37 |
| JDme | http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/ServerSizing | 16:37 |
| Nubae | JDme: I use LTSP in a real world situation, we have 60 workstations | 16:40 |
| Nubae | about 150 people use those, and there is one server | 16:40 |
| Nubae | specs for the server need to be relatively high... must be at least dual core 2 | 16:40 |
| JDme | and how much RAM is in the server? | 16:41 |
| Nubae | most important thing though is the infrastructure, you really must have gigabit switches, or things can be very slow when people start using video, java or flash content | 16:41 |
| JDme | are the clients resonable new? | 16:42 |
| Nubae | yeah, ram is teh other part... for the 60 stations we have I have 8 gigs in the server | 16:42 |
| JDme | wohhhh that a lot or ram!!! | 16:42 |
| JDme | wohhhh thats a lot of ram!!! | 16:43 |
| Nubae | the clients are not important, you can put anything u want on the other end, I've had some excellent results from old pentium 3 based machines in the 400-800 mhz range | 16:43 |
| Nubae | makes no difference if the machine is the latest core 2 duo, or an old piece of junk, everything happens on the server | 16:43 |
| JDme | and there is nothing installed onthe clients hard drives?? | 16:44 |
| Nubae | 8 gigs may seem like a lot, but its shared by all 60 clients | 16:44 |
| Nubae | nope, an image is server from the server via the network | 16:44 |
| Nubae | imagine like a live cd image, but through the network instead | 16:44 |
| JDme | the thing is I have loads of clients ( mostely refurbished PCs ) | 16:45 |
| Nubae | yeah ok, sounds like my situation | 16:46 |
| JDme | with mostely 256mb ram and 100MB nics | 16:46 |
| Nubae | In my case, our computer lab was furnished with dual core 2 ati based laptops, 21 of them, so I built an image that runs local applications on the workstations in question | 16:47 |
| Nubae | local ram, local apps, local cpu power, this works quite well | 16:47 |
| JDme | and is most of the daily administration around the server? | 16:48 |
| JDme | the clients look after them selves? | 16:48 |
| Nubae | one administers the images from teh server | 16:48 |
| Nubae | you can go into a specific area of the server which is the client environment, where you can modify what teh image should do | 16:49 |
| Nubae | or, if you are just using thin clients, you simply add the application on the server, and its automatically available to all the clients | 16:49 |
| Nubae | very little /nothing is done on the clients themselves | 16:49 |
| JDme | if I use thin clients.... | 16:50 |
| JDme | does the server have to be more powerful | 16:50 |
| Nubae | yeah, the more powerful the better | 16:51 |
| Nubae | the server can never really be too powerful | 16:52 |
| Nubae | in my setup I run a dual core xeon based system | 16:52 |
| JDme | sure but then they get expensive!!! | 16:52 |
| Nubae | yeah, you put all the money into the server, not the clients | 16:52 |
| Nubae | the difference is you have all the clients running at the speed of the server | 16:53 |
| JDme | what do you think of an old dell 6400 server | 16:53 |
| JDme | it has 4 cpus and 2GB ram | 16:53 |
| * Nubae is looing at dell's site | 16:54 | |
| JDme | and scsi 10000rpm raid | 16:54 |
| Nubae | sounds excellent | 16:54 |
| Nubae | has it got 2 nics? | 16:54 |
| JDme | em no just one 100mb | 16:55 |
| JDme | why? | 16:55 |
| Nubae | yeah, you really need 2 nics | 16:55 |
| JDme | or it might be 1000mb | 16:55 |
| Nubae | and must be 1000 mb | 16:55 |
| JDme | but the clients only have 100mb nics | 16:56 |
| JDme | what is the second nic for? | 16:58 |
| Nubae | still, the server hands out more bandwidth than you'd think | 16:58 |
| Nubae | especially in this case where the drives are pretty fast | 16:58 |
| Nubae | one nic connects to your lan/router the other to the internal thin client network | 16:59 |
| Nubae | doesn't have to be like that, but its the way its setup up out of the box | 17:00 |
| Nubae | the nic on the thin client lan side really should be 1000mb connected to a gigabit switch | 17:00 |
| Nubae | even if the computers only have 100mb cards, thats ok, bandwidth is still dsitributed from the server, so teh server needs a bigger connection to handle all teh requests coming from the clients | 17:01 |
| JDme | most of the clients I get are donated | 17:01 |
| Nubae | what spec? | 17:02 |
| JDme | so I just scrub them clean | 17:02 |
| JDme | could be anything from p2 to p4s | 17:02 |
| JDme | usually at least three years old ( and there the newer ones!!! ) | 17:03 |
| Nubae | right, well, I'd seperate them out, take anything under 1.5 ghz aside and set up as thin clients | 17:03 |
| Nubae | the others though, are being wasted as just pure thin clients, you can set up a full diskless workstation on them | 17:03 |
| Nubae | called low fat client | 17:03 |
| Nubae | that means apps, ram and cpu is run locally | 17:04 |
| JDme | hehe low fat client!!!! | 17:04 |
| Nubae | it also means you dont need such a powerful server | 17:04 |
| Nubae | :-) yeah the name was coined by edubuntu users I believe | 17:04 |
| Nubae | heh | 17:04 |
| JDme | ok lets say I had a P4 with 512 RAM and 80GB sata hd.. | 17:05 |
| JDme | would that cut it as a server? | 17:05 |
| JDme | for say 25 cllow fat clients | 17:05 |
| JDme | for say 25 low fat clients | 17:05 |
| Nubae | low fat, maybe yeah | 17:05 |
| Nubae | the server in this case is only handling the connections really | 17:06 |
| JDme | bascially I would build the servers from the best donations | 17:07 |
| Nubae | there is another possibility if you can't get your hands on a high spec server, which is to create a cluster | 17:07 |
| JDme | clusters oh dear!!! sound very technical!!! | 17:08 |
| Nubae | but thats a different story, think it requires a lot of knowledge | 17:08 |
| JDme | also the recipents of the clients and the servers (the LTSP server ) | 17:08 |
| laga | wasn't openmosix discontinued recently? | 17:08 |
| Nubae | yeah it would combine the power of several computers together, like they do in the film indsutry | 17:09 |
| JDme | will have very little knowledge | 17:09 |
| laga | nevermind me ;) | 17:09 |
| Nubae | yeah only recently too | 17:10 |
| JDme | they are called server farms I think | 17:10 |
| Nubae | maybe not worth it anymore | 17:10 |
| laga | Nubae: i think you can do loadbalancing with LTSP, eg clustering in userspace ;) | 17:11 |
| Nubae | I remember reading about them being called beowulf clusters | 17:11 |
| Nubae | laga: isn't that supposed to be built into hardy now? | 17:11 |
| laga | i don't know | 17:11 |
| laga | i don't use LTSP as intended | 17:12 |
| Nubae | think I read it in the release logs | 17:12 |
| * highvoltage catches up with this conversation | 17:12 | |
| Nubae | it looks like jdme has the unusual sitatuion of having relatively high spec clients | 17:12 |
| Nubae | no server as of yet | 17:12 |
| Nubae | and is looking to use one of the high spec clients as possible server | 17:13 |
| Nubae | how many clients are you looking at setting up? | 17:13 |
| Nubae | just 25? | 17:13 |
| JDme | well Im not really sure but thats about a good starting figure 25 clients | 17:14 |
| JDme | it could go up to 50 | 17:14 |
| === juliux__ is now known as juliux | ||
| JDme | but it depends if I can get the server end sorted! | 17:15 |
| Nubae | the calculations for ram are relatively simple... 256mb for every client | 17:15 |
| Nubae | on the server that is | 17:15 |
| JDme | that sounds very high! | 17:15 |
| JDme | to acheive | 17:15 |
| Nubae | you could set up 2 smaller ltsp servers with loadbalancing | 17:15 |
| Nubae | sounds like its your best option, put the high end clients on one network subnet, the low end on the other | 17:16 |
| Nubae | then you can decide to go full LTSP and loadbalance or set up low fat on the high end client subnet | 17:17 |
| Nubae | what about switches and nics? can u get those donated? I recently got some donated from some banks | 17:17 |
| JDme | so I could use the P4s with 512 RAM and 80GB sata hd.. as the server for say every 10 to 15 low fat clients? | 17:18 |
| Nubae | yeah that'd work, but I'd try to set up full thin client to begin with | 17:18 |
| JDme | yes the is a charity that will sell me 24 port switches for a very good price! | 17:18 |
| Nubae | on the older equipment | 17:18 |
| JDme | yes there is a charity that will sell me 24 port switches for a very good price! | 17:18 |
| JDme | but there only 100mb | 17:19 |
| Nubae | try and get gigabit switches, its where you'll notice the difference | 17:19 |
| sudobash | 25 sounds doable but not 50 | 17:19 |
| JDme | so the idea was to create one server and one switch with 23 clients as a package | 17:20 |
| JDme | and redistrubuit them like that | 17:20 |
| Nubae | try it, the 25 clients are never all used concurrently right? | 17:20 |
| JDme | well the might be... they will end up in a class room | 17:21 |
| Nubae | hmmm, all I can tell you is from my experience, running 40 concurrently takes up close to 6 gigs of ram and the cpu time usage goes up to about 30% | 17:22 |
| JDme | ok I understand what your getting at | 17:22 |
| Nubae | anyway, for the low fat alternative look here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPFatClients | 17:23 |
| JDme | well I had better go and look around for some specs | 17:23 |
| JDme | Thanks to all for your help and time :) | 17:24 |
| JDme | I have a much better idea of what I might need to do! | 17:24 |
| Nubae | good luck | 17:25 |
| JDme | Ta | 17:26 |
| glatzor | hello, I had to excahnge the -i386 kernel of my ltsp client with a generic one. | 17:44 |
| glatzor | after running ltsp-update-kernels I only land at a busy box terminal | 17:45 |
| === juliux__ is now known as juliux | ||
| highvoltage | L a s e r J o c k | 18:25 |
| * LaserJock runs | 18:26 | |
| highvoltage | :) | 18:27 |
| === sudobash is now known as bashsudo | ||
| === bashsudo is now known as baneva | ||
| === baneva is now known as banevade | ||
| wicked_ | join #xubuntu | 22:04 |
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