[00:01] <laga> gregbrady: http://www.naomifilter.org/ <- maybe that's something for ya
[00:02] <gregbrady> let me check, thanks
[00:02] <laga> although i wonder if that will work on linux.. there are some links to other filters, though
[00:06] <Kamping_Kaiser> i know someone had a dansguardian replacement project in LP, cant remember how far it had got though
[00:14] <gregbrady> Kamping_Kaiser, you have both given me great links to start with.
[00:18] <gregbrady> Does edubuntu not come with a software package?
[00:19] <Kamping_Kaiser> gregbrady, OOTB? not that i'm aware of
[00:19] <laga> my school installed a great filtering system which blocked lots of useful sites. yay. :/
[00:20] <Kamping_Kaiser> most tend to do that.
[00:20] <gregbrady> yeah, I can understand that.....filtering is a tough thing to do.
[00:21] <laga> yup. those "one size fits all" systems don't work well in a school where you people as young as 10 and as old as 20
[00:21] <laga> i wodner if they still have those win98 workstations. i'd love to deploy LTSP there
[00:22] <gregbrady> I wish LTSP would work over a wireless network
[00:22] <laga> it does. you just have to have the kernel on a pen drive/cd rom on the client..
[00:22] <gregbrady> yes, but what about the server?
[00:23] <laga> the server is connected to the wireless network?
[00:23] <gregbrady> Yes, all servers and clients are wireless.  Nothing wired.
[00:23] <laga> i'm not sure if desktop latency will be great over a wireless link, though. it should be ok for one client..
[00:24] <laga> gregbrady: as long as there is a network connection you should be OK.
[00:24] <laga> note: i'm not saying it's very practical.. i'm just saying it can be done :)
[00:24] <laga> you will need an additional which brings up the network interface before the client boots
[00:24] <gregbrady> laga, nope, didn't work.  I gave it a shot.  Apparently the server must be wired.
[00:26] <laga> gregbrady: you probably didn't have the initramfs script which connects the wireless interface to the network before the client boots
[00:26] <laga> that's the essential part
[00:27] <gregbrady> laga, that could very well be the case....I only tried it once.
[00:27] <laga> gregbrady: it's not terribly useful, imho. nothing to worry about. :)
[00:27] <gregbrady> I will try it again when I have enough of a free time block to allow it.
[00:28] <gregbrady> For now, it is more important to be able to control my son's internet access.  I want to make sure he has access, but not to the stuff that he stumbled upon today.
[00:36] <gregbrady> So, if I set up a proxy, then the proxy machine must always be running with a static IP?  I have 5 machines here in the house where everyone has access and one main machine acting as a sort of server.
[00:47] <gregbrady> any good online guides to setting up a proxy server?
[01:00] <Kamping_Kaiser> theres an edubuntu proxy guide in the wiki
[03:17] <lanuser> Hello - I've install edubuntu on a ThinkPad T40 but I can't get the splashscreen or fbdev support to work
[03:17] <johnny_> you might get more help in #ubuntu
[03:17] <lanuser> ok thanks johnny
[12:00] <jonathan__> who's around and awake? :)
[12:01] <pygi> highvoltage, what ya need?
[16:18] <JDme> hi
[16:18] <JDme> can someone tell me
[16:19] <JDme> the desktop version is for my clients?
[16:19] <JDme> right?
[16:19] <JDme> and the Classroom server CD
[16:19] <JDme> will be the terminal server
[16:20] <JDme> and the Classroom server add-on CD is just for the server
[16:20] <laga> if you want diskless clients you don't need to install anything on your clients
[16:21] <JDme> like no hard drives at all?  on the clients
[16:21] <JDme> is that what you mean?
[16:22] <JDme> I was thinking   if the clients did have hard drives...
[16:22] <JDme> it would thak some of the load off the server
[16:22] <laga> well, you're going to build a termianl server, right? so all applications are running on the server anyways
[16:23] <laga> s/termianl/terminal/
[16:23] <JDme> how powerfull a server will I need?
[16:24] <JDme> I think ther might be 30 PCs in a room
[16:24] <JDme> I think there might be 30 PCs in a room
[16:24] <laga> i'm not sure, i've never deployed LTSP in a real world situation.. i'm sure someone in here knows, though
[16:26] <JDme> im new to this as well!!!    but I do have linux experience
[16:26] <JDme> at the moment  I just put edubuntu on the clients
[16:27] <JDme> and I dont use a server
[16:28] <JDme> where might I find some example setups documentation
[16:28] <laga> www.edubuntu.org might be a good starting point.. and their wiki
[16:29] <JDme> ok Ta
[16:31] <pygi> JDme, there's the outdated Handbook which can give you info about server requirements
[16:31] <pygi> sample at least
[16:34] <JDme> yea   Ive just found this   EdubuntuCookbook
[16:34] <pygi> JDme, yea, that info can also be found there
[16:37] <JDme> ah   this is what I was looking for....:)
[16:37] <JDme> http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/ServerSizing
[16:40] <Nubae> JDme: I use LTSP in a real world situation, we have 60 workstations
[16:40] <Nubae> about 150 people use those, and there is one server
[16:40] <Nubae> specs for the server need to be relatively high... must be at least dual core 2
[16:41] <JDme> and how much RAM is in the server?
[16:41] <Nubae> most important thing though is the infrastructure, you really must have gigabit switches, or things can be very slow when people start using video, java or flash content
[16:42] <JDme> are the clients  resonable new?
[16:42] <Nubae> yeah, ram is teh other part... for the 60 stations we have I have 8 gigs in the server
[16:42] <JDme> wohhhh  that a lot or  ram!!!
[16:43] <JDme> wohhhh  thats a lot of  ram!!!
[16:43] <Nubae> the clients are not important, you can put anything u want on the other end, I've had some excellent results from old pentium 3 based machines in the 400-800 mhz range
[16:43] <Nubae> makes no difference if the machine is the latest core 2 duo, or an old piece of junk, everything happens on the server
[16:44] <JDme> and there is nothing installed onthe clients hard drives??
[16:44] <Nubae> 8 gigs may seem like a lot, but its shared by all 60 clients
[16:44] <Nubae> nope, an image is server from the server via the network
[16:44] <Nubae> imagine like a live cd image, but through the network instead
[16:45] <JDme> the thing is   I have loads of clients ( mostely refurbished PCs )
[16:46] <Nubae> yeah ok, sounds like my situation
[16:46] <JDme> with mostely 256mb ram and 100MB nics
[16:47] <Nubae> In my case, our computer lab was furnished with dual core 2 ati based laptops, 21 of them, so I built an image that runs local applications on the workstations in question
[16:47] <Nubae> local ram, local apps, local cpu power, this works quite well
[16:48] <JDme> and is most of the daily administration around the server?
[16:48] <JDme> the clients look after them selves?
[16:48] <Nubae> one administers the images from teh server
[16:49] <Nubae> you can go into a specific area of the server which is the client environment, where you can modify what teh image should do
[16:49] <Nubae> or, if you are just using thin clients, you simply add the application on the server, and its automatically available to all the clients
[16:49] <Nubae> very little /nothing is done on the clients themselves
[16:50] <JDme> if I use thin clients....
[16:50] <JDme> does the server have to be more powerful
[16:51] <Nubae> yeah, the more powerful the better
[16:52] <Nubae> the server can never really be too powerful
[16:52] <Nubae> in my setup I run a dual core xeon based system
[16:52] <JDme> sure      but then they get expensive!!!
[16:52] <Nubae> yeah, you put all the money into the server, not the clients
[16:53] <Nubae> the difference is you have all the clients running at the speed of the server
[16:53] <JDme> what do you think of an old dell 6400 server
[16:53] <JDme> it has 4 cpus and 2GB ram
[16:54]  * Nubae is looing at dell's site
[16:54] <JDme> and scsi 10000rpm raid
[16:54] <Nubae> sounds excellent
[16:54] <Nubae> has it got 2 nics?
[16:55] <JDme> em     no just one 100mb
[16:55] <JDme> why?
[16:55] <Nubae> yeah, you really need 2 nics
[16:55] <JDme> or it might be 1000mb
[16:55] <Nubae> and must be 1000 mb
[16:56] <JDme> but the clients only have 100mb nics
[16:58] <JDme> what is the second nic for?
[16:58] <Nubae> still, the server hands out more bandwidth than you'd think
[16:58] <Nubae> especially in this case where the drives are pretty fast
[16:59] <Nubae> one nic connects to your lan/router the other to the internal thin client network
[17:00] <Nubae> doesn't have to be like that, but its the way its setup up out of the box
[17:00] <Nubae> the nic on the thin client lan side really should be 1000mb connected to a gigabit switch
[17:01] <Nubae> even if the computers only have 100mb cards, thats ok, bandwidth is still dsitributed from the server, so teh server needs a bigger connection to handle all teh requests coming from the clients
[17:01] <JDme> most of the clients I get are donated
[17:02] <Nubae> what spec?
[17:02] <JDme> so I just scrub them clean
[17:02] <JDme> could be anything from   p2 to p4s
[17:03] <JDme> usually at least three years old ( and there the newer ones!!! )
[17:03] <Nubae> right, well, I'd seperate them out, take anything under 1.5 ghz aside and set up as thin clients
[17:03] <Nubae> the others though, are being wasted as just pure thin clients, you can set up a full diskless workstation on them
[17:03] <Nubae> called low fat client
[17:04] <Nubae> that means apps, ram and cpu is run locally
[17:04] <JDme> hehe    low fat client!!!!
[17:04] <Nubae> it also means you dont need such a powerful server
[17:04] <Nubae> :-) yeah the name was coined by edubuntu users I believe
[17:04] <Nubae> heh
[17:05] <JDme> ok lets say I had a P4 with 512 RAM and 80GB sata hd..
[17:05] <JDme> would that cut it as a server?
[17:05] <JDme> for say 25 cllow fat clients
[17:05] <JDme> for say 25 low fat clients
[17:05] <Nubae> low fat, maybe yeah
[17:06] <Nubae> the server in this case is only handling the connections really
[17:07] <JDme> bascially I would build the servers from the best donations
[17:07] <Nubae> there is another possibility if you can't get your hands on a high spec server, which is to create a cluster
[17:08] <JDme> clusters   oh dear!!!   sound very technical!!!
[17:08] <Nubae> but thats a different story, think it requires a lot of knowledge
[17:08] <JDme> also the recipents of the clients and the servers (the LTSP server )
[17:08] <laga> wasn't openmosix discontinued recently?
[17:09] <Nubae> yeah it would combine the power of several computers together, like they do in the film indsutry
[17:09] <JDme> will have very little knowledge
[17:09] <laga> nevermind me ;)
[17:10] <Nubae> yeah only recently too
[17:10] <JDme> they are called server farms    I think
[17:10] <Nubae> maybe not worth it anymore
[17:11] <laga> Nubae: i think you can do loadbalancing with LTSP, eg clustering in userspace ;)
[17:11] <Nubae> I remember reading about them being called beowulf clusters
[17:11] <Nubae> laga: isn't that supposed to be built into hardy now?
[17:11] <laga> i don't know
[17:12] <laga> i don't use LTSP as intended
[17:12] <Nubae> think I read it in the release logs
[17:12]  * highvoltage catches up with this conversation
[17:12] <Nubae> it looks like jdme has the unusual sitatuion of having relatively high spec clients
[17:12] <Nubae> no server as of yet
[17:13] <Nubae> and is looking to use one of the high spec clients as possible server
[17:13] <Nubae> how many clients are you looking at setting up?
[17:13] <Nubae> just 25?
[17:14] <JDme> well Im not really sure     but thats about a good starting figure   25 clients
[17:14] <JDme> it could go up to 50
[17:15] <JDme> but it depends if I can get the server end sorted!
[17:15] <Nubae> the calculations for ram are relatively simple... 256mb for every client
[17:15] <Nubae> on the server that is
[17:15] <JDme> that sounds very high!
[17:15] <JDme> to acheive
[17:15] <Nubae> you could set up 2 smaller ltsp servers with loadbalancing
[17:16] <Nubae> sounds like its your best option, put the high end clients on one network subnet, the low end on the other
[17:17] <Nubae> then you  can decide to go full LTSP and loadbalance or set up low fat on the high end client subnet
[17:17] <Nubae> what about switches and nics? can u get those donated? I recently got some donated from some banks
[17:18] <JDme> so I could use the P4s with 512 RAM and 80GB sata hd.. as the server for say every 10 to 15 low fat clients?
[17:18] <Nubae> yeah that'd work, but I'd try to set up full thin client to begin with
[17:18] <JDme> yes   the is a charity that will sell me 24 port switches for a very good price!
[17:18] <Nubae> on the older equipment
[17:18] <JDme> yes   there is a charity that will sell me 24 port switches for a very good price!
[17:19] <JDme> but there  only 100mb
[17:19] <Nubae> try and get gigabit switches, its where you'll notice the difference
[17:19] <sudobash> 25 sounds doable but not 50
[17:20] <JDme> so the idea was to create one server and one switch with 23 clients as a package
[17:20] <JDme> and redistrubuit them like that
[17:20] <Nubae> try it, the 25 clients are never all used concurrently right?
[17:21] <JDme> well the might be...   they will end up in a class room
[17:22] <Nubae> hmmm, all I can tell you is from my experience, running 40 concurrently takes up close to 6 gigs of ram and the cpu time usage goes up to about 30%
[17:22] <JDme> ok       I understand what your getting at
[17:23] <Nubae> anyway, for the low fat alternative look here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPFatClients
[17:23] <JDme> well I had better go            and look around for some specs
[17:24] <JDme> Thanks to all for your help and time :)
[17:24] <JDme> I have a much better idea of what I might need to do!
[17:25] <Nubae> good luck
[17:26] <JDme> Ta
[17:44] <glatzor> hello, I had to excahnge the -i386 kernel of my ltsp client with a generic one.
[17:45] <glatzor> after running ltsp-update-kernels I only land at a busy box terminal
[18:25] <highvoltage> L a s e r J o c k
[18:26]  * LaserJock runs
[18:27] <highvoltage> :)
[22:04] <wicked_> join #xubuntu