[00:34] <sistpoty> could an archive admin please let the ghc6 upload through? thanks!
[01:09] <nixternal> in sispoty style: could an archive admin please rock out the keurocalc-kde4 upload? thanks :)
[03:08] <IOU> does anyone find the 2.6.24-12 kernel slower than the 2.6.24-11 ?
[03:13] <IOU> hrm i joined the wrong room to ask that, My Apologies
[04:56] <Hobbsee> cody-somerville: re; recommends; only for metapackages
[05:03] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: which version of compiz actually worked/
[05:03] <Hobbsee> was it the last one, uploaded on the 7th, or 2 before/
[05:04] <Amaranth> eh?
[05:07] <Hobbsee> Amaranth: the special keys is back again
[05:07] <Hobbsee> Amaranth: it actually went away for a while
[05:07] <Hobbsee> now i've hit it twice in less than 24 hours.
[05:07] <Amaranth> special keys?
[05:07] <Hobbsee> alt, meta, shift, win, etc
[05:07] <Hobbsee> press-and-hold, focus
[05:08] <Hobbsee> there's a bug open.  no one's [been able to, bothered] to track it down.'
[05:08] <Hobbsee> no caps, either.]
[05:09] <Amaranth> oh, that's xorg stuff
[05:09] <Hobbsee> and i can't seem to remember how to downgrade
[05:09] <Amaranth> compiz can't fix it, it happens with metacity too
[05:09] <Hobbsee> i know, but i didn't think xorg had changed
[05:09] <Hobbsee> oh wait, it is
[05:09] <Hobbsee> er, did
[05:12] <RAOF> Hobbsee: You mean the bug where when you hold a key down and make a mouse event that key is then permanently pressed?
[05:12] <Hobbsee> RAOF: i'm holding no key.  but effectively, yes.
[05:32] <Hobbsee> RAOF: yeah, looks like it.
[05:32] <Hobbsee> RAOF: i think it's a phantom key though - it doesn't seem to produce any output on the terminal
[05:32] <Hobbsee> whereas pageup, etc, will just give pageup spam on the terminal
[05:55] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Check using xev next time it happens.
[06:49] <macogw> Is the Rhythmbox maintainer around?
[06:52] <macogw> guess not
[09:20] <jdub> 6.06 mailman security update bug seen?
[09:20] <jdub>             mlist.subject_prefix = Utils.canonstr(
[09:20] <jdub>         elif property == 'info':
[09:20] <jdub> in /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Gui/General.py
[09:21] <jdub> makes mailman inoperable (daemon doesn't run)
[09:22] <jdub> emgent: ping?
[09:22] <jdub> (oh, that was gusty not dapper)
[09:37] <mdke> Amaranth: interesting, I haven't heard of that; will investigate
[09:54] <vik_3278> Hi, is this the correct channel to ask about manual back-porting?
[09:54] <vik_3278> or is that #ubuntu ?
[09:56] <vik_3278> no one here?
[09:57] <jpatrick> vik_3278: #ubuntu-motu
[09:57] <jpatrick> !weekend | vik_3278
[09:57] <ubotu> vik_3278: It's a weekend.  Often on weekends, the paid developers, and a lot of the community, may not be around to answer your question.  Please be patient, wait longer than you normally would, or try again during the working week.
[09:57] <vik_3278> kk cheers
[09:57] <vik_3278> yeah I guess it's the weekend huh.
[10:12] <jdub> bug mentioned above is #202332
[10:15] <soren> jdub: What? There's a bug about people not working enough over the weekend? :p
[10:18] <afflux> apport is just removing the need-i386-retrace tag from bug 201071 :(
[10:18] <ubotu> Bug 201071 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/201071 is private
[10:21] <Hobbsee> soren: now that should be filed.
[11:18] <ogra_cmpc> asac, around by chance ?
[11:38] <pitti> geser: oh, xulrunner-dev works? why did you previously patch it to build with firefox?
[11:43] <geser> pitti: I merged the last version because mono-tools was missing a build-dependency and did the test-build with universe enabled so I didn't catch that libxul-dev was in universe
[11:43] <pitti> ah, ok
[11:58] <mdke> pitti: did you poke ubuntu-docs from gutsy-proposed to gutsy-updates already?
[12:02] <jeromeg> ScottK: hello
[12:02] <jeromeg> jdong acked the pidgin backport, if I provide a debdiff, could you please upload it for me ?
[12:37] <emgent> jdub: pong
[12:37] <emgent> i'm working to it, sorry for delay
[12:42] <jdub> emgent: no worries, just wanted to make sure it became known quickly :-)
[12:42] <jdub> emgent: thanks!
[12:42] <emgent> np :P
[12:44] <emgent> stupid error in ../Mailman/Gui/GUIBase.py
[12:46] <jdub> and /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Gui/General.py
[12:47] <jdub> see #202332 (if you haven't already)
[12:47] <emgent> yes I saw
[12:48] <emgent> anyway, i will attach new patch, but i think that it will upload 17/18 th.. weekend time..
[12:49] <jdub> emgent: the problem is, the current security update breaks mailman
[12:49] <emgent> i know.
[12:50] <Hobbsee> emgent: please don't bug me in query, but is this for hardy or gutsy?
[12:51] <jdub> gusty

[12:51] <Hobbsee> emgent: where is it then, and have you actually tested this one?
[12:51] <Fujitsu> emgent: Ping a security person as soon as you have a tested fix; you may be able to get it done earlier.
[12:52] <cody-somerville> superm1, ping
[12:53] <emgent> ok i will do.
[13:28] <erle-> will monodevelop 1.0 and mono 2.0 be available in hardy?
[13:37] <pitti> mdke: ah, no; the changelog failed to include a bug ref, so I didn't see it
[13:38] <pitti> mdke: done
[13:40] <Hobbsee> hi pitti
[13:40]  * pitti hugs Hobbsee
[13:41]  * Hobbsee hugs pitti back
[13:54] <cjwatson> emgent: has anybody been raised on the phone for this yet? security regressions => bad news
[13:56] <emgent> cjwatson: debdiff attached and now i'm putting up fix in my PPA too.
[13:57] <cjwatson> I'll make some calls
[13:57] <emgent> kees sleep.
[13:57] <emgent> cjwatson: ok cool.
[13:58] <emgent> only kees and jamie can upload in -security
[13:58] <cjwatson> it's not an absurd hour for Jamie
[13:59] <emgent> ok thanks cjwatson
[14:00] <iwkse> hi all, anybody tried to install a live with a usb-cdrom device?
[14:00] <iwkse> i'm experiencing a bug in the initramfs
[14:02] <iwkse> while using an usb-cdrom device the new_root is mounted before the cdrom is recognized giving the (initramfs) prompt
[14:02] <iwkse> and after few seconds it recognize the cdrom and allow me to mount it
[14:02] <iwkse> now...i would really like to boot from initramfs but i don't know how to do
[14:03] <iwkse> so i was searching a way to delay the mounting of root
[14:03] <iwkse> root/new_root
[14:03] <iwkse> anybody experienced it?
[14:06] <Hobbsee> !weekend | iwkse
[14:06] <ubotu> iwkse: It's a weekend.  Often on weekends, the paid developers, and a lot of the community, may not be around to answer your question.  Please be patient, wait longer than you normally would, or try again during the working week.
[14:09] <mdke> pitti: sorry about that - and thanks!
[14:09] <Mithrandir> iwkse: I installed hardy in that configuration at least.
[14:09] <pitti> emgent: hi
[14:10] <yao_ziyuan> i want to suggest something, very important
[14:17] <yao_ziyuan> i want a Language tray icon in a freshly installed ubuntu/kubuntu, just like windows does
[14:18] <yao_ziyuan> because many east asian users are used to find their input methods there
[14:18] <yao_ziyuan> well, essentially, it's a SCIM tray icon
[14:18] <yao_ziyuan> so what i mean is, install and run scim by default
[14:18] <yao_ziyuan> no matter what the installation/system language is
[14:20] <ogra_cmpc> yao_ziyuan, did you try out hardy ?
[14:21] <yao_ziyuan> does hardy do that?
[14:21] <ogra_cmpc> it does exactly that if an asian language is used :)
[14:21] <ogra_cmpc> and you can easily enable it on all others with one checkbox
[14:21] <yao_ziyuan> but an east asian user is used to select his language from a tray icon, not from a system menu
[14:23] <Hobbsee> yao_ziyuan: ubuntu does that.
[14:23] <ogra_cmpc> why wouldnt an asian user not install his native language ?
[14:23] <ogra_cmpc> i guess you rather mean keymap than language
[14:24] <yao_ziyuan> ...
[14:24] <yao_ziyuan> because of windows experience
[14:24] <yao_ziyuan> trust me. a little default tray icon can lead you to wonder
[14:24] <Hobbsee> ...with the endless popups and the spyware.  a really good idea to duplicate it.
[14:25] <ogra_cmpc> if you have installed any of the asian languages the scim applet is started by default
[14:25] <yao_ziyuan> then, put a default tray icon that opens the install language dialog box
[14:26] <ogra_cmpc> but you have to select your language before boot of the cd anyway ... why add another applet ? you cant boot hardy Cds without having selected the language
[14:27] <ogra_cmpc> if that language is asian the scim applet will be in the panel
[14:28] <cjwatson> yao_ziyuan: we install it by default for all languages in hardy, but we don't run it because scim's default keybindings confuse non-Asian users
[14:28] <cjwatson> yao_ziyuan: this was actually quite a big issue over the last week; it got accidentally turned on by default and caused a great deal of confusion
[14:28] <cjwatson> yao_ziyuan: so I think we're fine as we are in hardy :-)
[14:31] <yao_ziyuan> many keybindings in scim are not necessary even for east asians
[14:31] <yao_ziyuan> it just needs a Ctrl+Space
[14:31] <yao_ziyuan> and a Shift+Ctrl
[14:31] <cjwatson> this was exactly what confused people
[14:31] <yao_ziyuan>  Shift+Ctrl is optional too
[14:31] <ogra_cmpc> thhats exactly been the biggest issue :)
[14:31] <cjwatson> people hit that a lot by accident. We are absolutely not turning that on by default, sorry
[14:31] <yao_ziyuan> what about Ctrl+Space?
[14:31] <cjwatson> yes
[14:31] <yao_ziyuan> sigh
[14:32] <cjwatson> but it's more prominent in hardy than it was in gutsy; I think it's still an improvement
[14:32] <yao_ziyuan> then don't activate any keybindings unless the user chooses Chinese/Japanese/Korean in the tray icon menu
[14:32] <yao_ziyuan> i mean, choose by mouse
[14:32] <ogra_cmpc> yao_ziyuan, thats what we do
[14:32] <cjwatson> we'd welcome a patch for that
[14:32] <cjwatson> ogra_cmpc: no, it isn't
[14:32] <ogra_cmpc> but you select it earlier
[14:32] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: yao_ziyuan is a kubuntu user.  he probably didn't see it
[14:33] <ogra_cmpc> cjwatson, well, we force lang selection upon the user on boot
[14:33] <yao_ziyuan> my concern is that almost all computer users in china are using backdoored windows
[14:33] <cjwatson> ogra_cmpc: if your locale isn't CJKV or Thai, scim isn't run
[14:33] <cjwatson> 14:32 <yao_ziyuan> then don't activate any keybindings unless the user chooses Chinese/Japanese/Korean in the tray icon menu
[14:33] <cjwatson> 14:32 <yao_ziyuan> i mean, choose by mouse
[14:33] <cjwatson> 14:32 <ogra_cmpc> yao_ziyuan, thats what we do
[14:33] <yao_ziyuan> that hurts their democracy enterprise greatly
[14:33] <ogra_cmpc> right
[14:33] <cjwatson> ogra_cmpc: yes, we make the user select a language at boot, but your description above is absolutely not accurate
[14:33] <yao_ziyuan> i want them to switch to linux
[14:34] <yao_ziyuan> but there has to be a way to activate a chinese input method similar to that in windows
[14:35] <yao_ziyuan> choosing language upon installation is indeed good for novices
[14:36] <yao_ziyuan> i didn't know vietnamese and thais also need input methods :)
[14:36] <ogra_cmpc> yao_ziyuan, is it a general habit in asia to not choose the sysem to be in your native lang ?
[14:37] <yao_ziyuan> no
[14:37] <ogra_cmpc> then the existing sysem inded doesnt gain much ...
[14:37] <yao_ziyuan> but for bilinguists like me
[14:37] <yao_ziyuan> i prefer to remain english as default
[14:38] <yao_ziyuan> by no i mean yes
[14:38] <ogra_cmpc> heh
[14:38] <yao_ziyuan> they choose native languages
[14:38] <ogra_cmpc> thats how i understood it :)
[14:39] <ogra_cmpc> so for the majority it will likely be an improvement as it is in hardy then
[14:39] <yao_ziyuan> in kubuntu 7.10, if you choose chinese upon installation, you will get a default font that displays english letters in an ugly fixed-width way
[14:40] <yao_ziyuan> yeah i also want to mention, if the user adds chinese, you should use the latest wenquanyi fonts
[14:41] <yao_ziyuan> but ubuntu's chinese fonts are fine
[14:41] <yao_ziyuan> i mean kubuntu
[14:41] <ogra_cmpc> i think especially wrt fonts hardy has improved a lot, the person who is responsible for font and input handling since hardy lives in asia, you should probably take a look, beta wil come out soon
[14:41] <yao_ziyuan> it's a lot lagging behind
[14:41] <yao_ziyuan> i'm downloading kubuntu hardy alpha 6
[14:41] <yao_ziyuan> ubuntu and fedora have perfect chinese display and input
[14:42] <yao_ziyuan> but they still require you to add chinese from a system menu, rather than from a tray icon, which would be more prominent
[14:43] <yao_ziyuan> for kubuntu 7.10, it sucks at its default chinese font and its way to enable chinese input: you have to "add language: chinese" AND THEN "set system language: chinese"
[14:43] <yao_ziyuan> i didn't know i should "set system language: chinese" in my early kubuntu days so i had a lot of frustration getting scim working
[14:43]  * ogra_cmpc cant comment on kde
[14:44] <yao_ziyuan> i found the best way so far to enable scim in kubuntu is to install ubuntu first, and then enable chinese input in ubuntu, and then install kubuntu-desktop. and then i log into a kde session, and then Ctrl+Space will give me the input method.
[14:45] <yao_ziyuan> but this way i still have to manually download the latest chinese fonts from wenquanyi's website
[14:45] <yao_ziyuan> or else chinese characters in my firefox will be junk
[14:47] <jdstrand> lamont: I think it should go in sooner than later, but I am working through upgrade scenarios and will be more conservative on upgrades from pre-hardy
[14:48] <jdstrand> lamont: this isn't bind9-specific, we are working out the details for migrating profiles/etc for all apparmor enforcing packages
[14:48] <lamont> jdstrand: fwiw, bind9 runs just fine with the file on dapper... :-)
[14:48] <jdstrand> lamont: bottom-line, I hope to have some postinst and doc changes
[14:48] <lamont> ah, for bind9?
[14:48] <jdstrand> lamont: heh, yes it would be fine on dapper
[14:49] <jdstrand> lamont: yes-- we will put the profile in complain mode on certain upgrades and enforce on new install
[14:49] <jdstrand> lamont: so as not to break a dapper-hardy upgrade
[14:49] <lamont> ah, ok.  we'll want to chat about those, I expect.
[14:50] <lamont> because there are far more configs out there than the default config
[14:50] <jdstrand> lamont: all the details aren't worked out yet, but once I dig into it more, we can chat
[14:50] <yao_ziyuan> cjwatson: how is it "more prominent" in hardy than in gutsy?
[14:50] <jdstrand> lamont: oh sure-- and this isn't bind9 specific
[14:51] <jdstrand> lamont: but it will affect the apparmor snippet in postinst somewhat
[14:51] <lamont> jdstrand: those fun little other-configs are the reason that bind doesn't force the chroot or user name on upgrades.  (well, doesn't default to chroot in any case)
[14:51] <lamont> right
[14:53]  * lamont grumbles about jdstrand including a (&*^(&*)_)($&%)*_)(^*&%^(_ changelog entry in his patch
[14:53] <lamont> and manually applies the patch
[14:53] <jdstrand> lamont: oh-- you don't want the changelog entry too? I was trying to make it easier for you
[14:54] <lamont> 1) changelog never merges cleanly
[14:54] <lamont> 2) I autogenerate it at the very end (note the diff on any revision whose commit log says 'changelog: release' :0)
[14:55] <jdstrand> ok-- I was thinking of the patch as a debdiff.  I'll know for next time
[14:55] <lamont> if I had just git-am'ed your patch, the changelog record would have been:  Fix for LP: #201954 (apparmor profile does not allow access to /var/lib/bind)
[14:55] <lamont> you still have the git tree?
[14:55] <jdstrand> lamont: yes
[14:56] <yao_ziyuan> kubuntu makes such a distinction between "installed languages" and "system language"
[14:56] <lamont>     Addresses-Ubuntu-Bug: 200739
[14:56] <lamont> the changelog basically gets line one of the commit log (the short log print), and will add the LP# syntax if Addresses-{Debian,Ubuntu}-Bug: NNN is there
[14:56] <yao_ziyuan> i want kubuntu to have a simple Languages listbox like ubuntu does
[14:57] <yao_ziyuan> and like fedora does
[14:57] <yao_ziyuan> the Language Selector
[14:58] <lamont> jdstrand: and the sad part about me munging your change around is that it'll make for merge fun when you refresh after I push it.
[14:58] <lamont> (for you)
[14:59] <jdstrand> lamont: it'll help me remember
[14:59] <jdstrand> ;)
[14:59] <lamont> lol
[15:01] <lamont> hrm....
[15:01] <lamont> jdstrand: so do we make /etc/bind/* read-only and force people to either edit the profile or "fix" their config to be conformant?
[15:02] <lamont> the default fresh install should make it read only
[15:02] <lamont> upgrades may want it to be rw
[15:03] <jdstrand> lamont: I think it would be wise to be conservative in terms of functionality, and leave it rw. The unix permissions will then handle it properly.
[15:03] <lamont> ah, true
[15:03] <jdstrand> lamont: from a security perspective, I would want it 'r', but it is really very little gain for potentially a lot of pain
[15:03]  * lamont steals the bug, marks it fix-committed
[15:04] <lamont> yeah - the admin can always tweak the file - we shouldn't need to change it much once it's done "enough"
[15:04]  * jdstrand nods
[15:05]  * lamont really needs to push bug 191530 upstream
[15:05] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 191530 in bind9 ""host" cannot see sites in .org" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/191530
[15:05] <lamont> it's a simple case of host not going the distance
[15:05] <jdstrand> heh
[15:06] <lamont> .com nameserver return glue as A RRs (violation of spec), because it works better
[15:06] <lamont> .org nameservers don't.
[15:06] <lamont> so if your .org domain has nameservers outside of .org, then host doesn't print things.
[15:06] <lamont> of course, the real answer is "use dig. kthx"
[15:07] <jdstrand> interesting-- haven't hit that myself
[15:08] <lamont> there's a domain name in the bug
[15:08] <Mithrandir> I'm wondering if we should think about shipping some compat versions of older tools, so people can still go host $blah, and get similar-formatted output, but from dig.
[15:08] <lamont> and I might have those details wrong, too.
[15:08] <Mithrandir> ditto for traceroute/mtr.
[15:10] <jdstrand> yeah, I get 'sourceforge.org has no NS record' too
[15:12] <lamont> and if you look at the dig output, you can see why
[15:12] <lamont> ;; flags: qr rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 3, ADDITIONAL: 0
[15:13] <lamont> vs dig ns sourceforge.com @a.gtld-servers.net
[15:13] <lamont> ;; flags: qr rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 3, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 3
[15:14]  * jdstrand nods
[15:14]  * lamont would welcome someone going through http://bugs.debian.org/src:bind9 and triaging them
[15:15] <lamont> most of which are "does this still happen" questions for the submitter...
[15:16]  * lamont wonders about debian bug 408432 and whether it was fully addressed (well, in debian, so I could close it...)
[15:17] <ubotu> Debian bug 408432 in bind9 "BIND remote exploit" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/408432
[15:18] <jdstrand> lamont: I can dig into it on monday (pun intended)
[15:18] <lamont> heh
[15:26] <lamont> #431663: dig can be made to crash using -f, named pipes, and signals
[15:26] <lamont> "and your point?" :-)
[15:26] <Wartorn> Just wanted to let you know, the "hardware testing" crashed on me, when it came to the mouse-test and i pressed next, now my cpu keeps running at 100%, even after a reboot
[15:27] <Wartorn> and it keeps alternating between the cores, where one keeps running at around 5% and the other at 100%
[15:47] <iwkse> any developers around here? :)
[15:47] <jpatrick> !weekend > iwkse (:))
[15:47] <iwkse> :)
[15:48] <iwkse> lazy hackers
[15:54] <pitti> !ask | iwkse
[15:54] <ubotu> iwkse: Please don't ask to ask a question, ask the question (all on ONE line, so others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely answer. :-)
[15:57] <Vadi> Is there a list of requirements somewhere for getting an @ubuntu.com forwarding email address?
[15:57] <jpatrick> Vadi: you have to be a member
[15:57] <iwkse> pitti: i did the question before, but i can repeat it..wait
[15:58] <jpatrick> ubotu: tell Vadi about member
 i'm experiencing a bug in the initramfs
 while using an usb-cdrom device the new_root is mounted before the cdrom is recognized giving the (initramfs) prompt
 and after few seconds it recognize the cdrom and allow me to mount it
 now...i would really like to boot from initramfs but i don't know how to do
 so i was searching a way to delay the mounting of new_root
[15:59] <Vadi> jpatrick: Ok, thanks
[18:21] <superm1> cody-somerville, hey what's up?
[19:28] <alex-weej> please can a developer take a quick look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/201127 ? i've posted the changes that I think are suitable for resolution
[19:28] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 201127 in network-manager "(Hardy) please remove Network Manager Editor from Internet and Preferences" [Undecided,New]
[19:51] <enarxe0> hi
[20:10] <Rotund> Is there any chance of getting a new package in for Hardy yet?  Something that's in community?
[20:11] <LaserJock> Rotund: like an updated package or a completely new one?
[20:55] <ScottK2> In January serpentine dropped from Main to Universe.  If it's going to stay there, there's some stuff that can be re-enabled.  I'm working on an upload to support python-xml removal.  I can deal with that at the same time unless someone knows of plans to promote it again?
[21:03] <slangasek> ScottK2: nope, I'm pretty sure that dropping it in favor of brasero was deliberate
[21:04] <ScottK2> OK.  Just checking.  Didn"t want to do a bunch of work someone would just have to undo later.
[21:04] <ScottK2> Thnks
[22:09] <jpatrick> Kopfgeldjaeger: ##fix_your_connection
[22:54] <slangasek> mjg59: ping
[23:57] <emgent> heya