[01:14] <platyhelminth> lol dev team for ubuntu
[01:14] <platyhelminth> hi
[01:23] <platyhelminth> I am happy to see people wich made this beautiful OS for me for free
[02:50] <Vadi> Which channel is appropriate for "application development on Ubuntu" ?
[02:53] <james_w> Vadi: I'm not sure I'm afraid.
[02:53] <james_w> this isn't really right, it's about developing Ubuntu itself.
[02:56] <ScottK> To the extent there is an answer for that, I'm afraid it's #ubuntu, which isn't a very good answer.
[02:57] <ion_> Application development on Ubuntu is just like application development on any other similar platform. If you’re using OpenGL, find an OpenGL channel. If you’re using Ruby, find a Ruby channel etc.
[02:59] <jdong> I like ion_'s answer the best
[03:02] <Vad1> Find a channel for C is hard
[03:02] <Vad1> *finding
[03:04] <james_w> isn't there ##c?
[03:04] <slangasek> the unofficial channel for the C project?  What would be required to have an official one? :)
[03:05] <jdong> slangasek: some holy language/compiler wars?
[03:05] <wasabi> I think this conversation has hilighted something in my mind that we sort of fail at.
[03:05] <calc> java is better than all of them... er yea ;-\
[03:05] <wasabi> Many people daily have the exact same question Vad1 just had, for WIndows.
[03:05] <wasabi> And they actually get sent to a single site with a bunch of choices.
[03:05] <LaserJock> Fortran Forever!
[03:05]  * calc kicks java for causing so many OOo problems
[03:06] <calc> wasabi: msdn.microsoft.com ?
[03:06] <wasabi> Basically.
[03:06] <wasabi> Good, bad? I dunno. Different.
[03:06] <calc> wasabi: well we could point them at /usr/share/doc
[03:06] <wasabi> Hehe.
[03:06] <calc> wasabi: assuming they have the dev docs installed
[03:07] <wasabi> I wonder what the real statistical benefit of that is. That is, the lack of choice.
[03:07] <calc> lack of choice causes uniformity which makes it more likely to find someone that knows what you need (i guess)
[03:08] <Fujitsu> But the Win32 API sucks.
[03:08] <wasabi> People use .Net now.
[03:08] <wasabi> Also means one place can serve the population, with a set of answers and common development paradigm.
[03:08] <Vad1> calc: That's assuming that answer does exist in that small population.
[03:09] <calc> Vad1: yea
[03:16] <pwnguin> wasabi: just point em to #debian ;)
[03:36] <Vad1> james_w: Thanks, ##c helped me out.
[03:45] <Vad1> wasabi: it will be different, and I think good. Having a unified (keyword) resource that's for everything programming, with all info in one place, will be really nice and make things easier. I don't see msdn failing - it's still going, so it must be working out. Meanwhile I'm reading some comments on brainstorm from people who do know how to code, but getting into it is difficult because of a lack of proper resourc
[03:46] <Vad1> I was typing that so long that I started going in circles in the end. Oops.
[03:58] <mjg59> slangasek: Yo?
[08:32] <slangasek> mjg59: ok, asynchronous it is then. :)  I've taken on responsibility for getting some fixes to acpi-support in for hardy (bug #193842), and there was some doubt expressed at the last platform team meeting about whether this is even still the right package for handling suspend/resume fix-ups; can you confirm that this stuff is all still in the path?
[08:32] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 193842 in acpi-support "Please sponsor cherrypicked fixes for acpi-support into Hardy" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193842
[08:36] <famicom> Yo
[08:36] <famicom> anyone here which part of the ubuntu isntaller defines what gets installed
[08:51] <stgraber> famicom: that's not really a "part of the ubuntu installer", it's defined in the preseed/ubuntu.seed file
[08:51] <stgraber> on a normal Ubuntu install, the "ubuntu-desktop" task is selected, so every packages assigned to that task will be installed
[08:58] <famicom> why isnt there a simple cli switch or the option to feed ubiquity an external seed file
[09:01] <famicom> i mean, gee, why should i have to download another whole godd*mn disk to have a functionality that is allready available on the same disk
[09:01] <famicom> that is assbackwards
[09:02] <stgraber> there is a simple switch which you can give it an URL to a preseed file which will give it a different package list (that at least work with debian-installer and should now also work with ubiquity preseeding)
[09:02] <famicom> ah
[09:02] <famicom> and where can i find that in the documentation
[09:05] <stgraber> in the ubuntu install-guide, there is a preseeding chapter
[09:05] <famicom> blegh
[09:05] <famicom> the "official" ubuntu documentation needs to be updated
[09:06] <famicom> right now its less helpfull than windows help/support
[09:06] <stgraber> famicom: https://help.ubuntu.com/7.04/installation-guide/i386/preseed-intro.html
[09:06] <stgraber> famicom: http://evalicious.com/evan.seed for an example
[09:07] <famicom> yeah, i know how they work
[09:11] <famicom> anywyas
[09:11] <famicom> thanks dude
[10:43] <Wartorn> Just had an issue with libxml2-dev package. I have a project that uses this, and i included libxml/xmlmemory.h etc, but this wouldnt compile, if i changed the include to libxml2/libxml/xmlmemory.h it got one step further, but then xmlmemory.h itself couldnt find some files (cause it too includes only the libxml/<file> path), so i had to move /usr/include/libxml2/libxml to /usr/include/libxml, which worked fine. Is it supposed to be lik
[10:44] <afancy> Hi, when i install a software on Ubuntu, I met the following error: error while loading shared libraries: libc.so.6: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[10:44] <afancy> what is the matter?
[10:44] <stgraber> Wartorn: please check topic, this channel is about Ubuntu development not development on Ubuntu
[10:44] <Seveas> Wartorn, afancy: this is not a support channel
[10:44] <Wartorn> well, im just asking the devs if its something wrong with the package
[10:44] <afancy> why?
[10:45] <Seveas> Wartorn, no there is not
[10:45] <afancy> so where i should ask this question?
[10:45] <Seveas> afancy, #ubuntu
[10:45] <Wartorn> Well, on my older hardy installation (not updated) this project worked out of the box.
[10:46] <Wartorn> when libxml itself cant find its own files, theres gotta be something wrong, and its installed through aptitude, so it cant be my fault
[10:47] <Seveas> Wartorn, you manually moved files around instead of fixing your -L call (or better: use pkg-config). That breaks things.
[10:47] <Seveas> and given that this is not a support channel, please don't expect support :)
[10:48] <Wartorn> im not looking for support, i found a way to compile it, breakage or not, im just saying it doesent work out of the box anymore
[10:48] <Wartorn> so if its a package error, i just thought this would be the place to go
[10:49] <Seveas> it is not a package error, and if it were, irc channels are not the place to report bugs
[10:50] <Wartorn> Well, fine. Sorry for the hassly.
[10:50] <Wartorn> hassle
[10:52] <Hobbsee> Seveas: have you always been so helpful?
[10:52] <Hobbsee> Wartorn: have you checked for a bug on it already?
[10:53] <Wartorn> Well, no. Sorry. Probably should've done that
[10:53] <Seveas> Hobbsee, I have :) I can't help it he doesn't use pkg-config properly to avoid this
[10:53] <Wartorn> Thing is, why should i have to do that at all?
[10:53] <Seveas> because that's what pkg-config is for.
[10:54] <Hobbsee> Wartorn: as it is, 244 packages build with that in hardy, it looks like, so we would have expected mass breakage if it can't find files
[10:55] <Hobbsee> and there is no bug for it
[10:55]  * Hobbsee suspects an issue with the package you're compiling
[10:55] <Seveas> Hobbsee, it's not a package, it's his own code :)
[10:55] <Wartorn> well, its my own program. But on my other computer it worked fine, out of the box (hardy too, not been updated in a while)
[10:59] <Wartorn> And i have no problems with any of the other dependencies the program has
[11:00] <Seveas> Wartorn, that still doesn't make it a bug in the package. You should use the proper way of specifying -I and -l flags
[11:00] <Wartorn> Well, okay. thanks
[11:09] <Hobbsee> damn.  finally hit the x bug again.
[11:22] <Hobbsee> how does one find out what a particular keypress event actually is, if one has the serial/
[11:24] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: xev should normally give a name for it if it knows.
[11:24] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: that's what i thought.  how do you find out what it is if it doesn't know/
[11:25] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: No idea.
[12:16]  * lamont reads the growisofs manpage and scratches his head looking for how to erase a dvd-rw...
[13:17] <unggnu> hi all
[13:17] <unggnu> sorry for bothering but I guess this bug report is important and should be fixed before release Bug #197167
[13:17] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 197167 in e2fsprogs "Please sync e2fsprogs e2fsprogs 1.40.7-1 with Debian" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/197167
[13:17] <unggnu> It seems that e2fsprogs has some serious issues, at least tune2fs.
[13:46] <mjg59> slangasek: No, suspend/resume doesn't use it at all
[16:33] <cody-somerville> If there any archive admins around, please push xubuntu-default-settings through please :)
[16:43] <highvoltage> PPC isn't supported anymore, right?
[16:43] <jdong> officially, no
[16:55] <highvoltage> jdong: I asked in #ubuntu-bugs too, but timing isn't too good, what should happen with a bug like this: https://launchpad.net/bugs/44265
[16:55] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 44265 in usplash "dapper flight 7 PPC fails to install (more infos)" [Medium,Confirmed]
[16:55] <highvoltage> jdong: should it be closed?
[16:56] <jdong> highvoltage: I'm not sure, I wouldn't close it
[16:56] <highvoltage> ok
[17:46] <cody-somerville> fabbione, ping
[18:04] <sivang> hi all
[18:05] <sivang> does anybody know how to pass parallel build instructions through DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS or some other way that will not require patching each package rules file?
[18:05]  * sivang apologizes in advance for the off topicness
[18:06] <sivang> hey sabdfl , how's it going ?
[18:06] <emgent> heya people
[18:06] <sabdfl> hey sivang, good thanks
[18:06] <sabdfl> am on holiday
[18:07] <sabdfl> just wrapped a week boarding in wyoming
[18:07] <sabdfl> now off to british columbia
[18:07] <sabdfl> you?
[18:09] <highvoltage> hey there sabdfl and sivang
[18:10] <cody-somerville> Can a core-dev complete this merge for me? https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-devel/ubuntu-seeds/xubuntu.hardy/+merge/163 - thanks :)
[18:10] <sivang> sabdfl: cool
[18:13] <sabdfl> hey highvoltage
[18:13] <sabdfl> cheers all
[18:13] <highvoltage> cheers, have lots of fun!
[18:33] <calc> wow brasero is either really slow on images or my system is broken somehow
[18:34] <calc> it took ~ 15m for it to checksum the image it was going to burn
[18:35] <calc> hmm then it failed to actually start the burn :\
[18:43]  * calc wonders why his burns are taking so long
[18:43] <calc> 20x dvd burner burning 16x dvds it taking ~ 17m to burn a disc
[18:46] <Nafallo> ehrm
[18:46] <Nafallo> their is more to the system then the actual burner :-)
[18:49] <Sjimmie> exactly, add the System Monitor to a panel with cpu and disk inthere and then burn again and watch ur load
[18:59]  * lamont wonders if he should be concerned that the version of openvpn in hardy is currently ~rc7...
[19:28] <superm1_> asac, unfortunately that ath_pci situation with NM 0.6.6 just got worse for me.  In cleaning up ~ a little bit, I accidentally wiped my stored networks.  Now I can't even get NM to associate period with this AP (copying and pasting the key from openwrt's nvram output)
[19:44] <slangasek> mjg59: bah; why doesn't it? :)
[19:47] <mjg59> slangasek: Because we use pm-utils instead, and have done for months
[19:53] <slangasek> mjg59: in all cases?  would it be better to pull the suspend/resume code out of acpi-support?
[19:54] <mjg59> slangasek: Yes
[19:54] <slangasek> ok
[19:55] <mjg59> slangasek: The problem is that they're in /etc, so conffiles
[19:55] <slangasek> right
[19:56] <superm1_> still can be removed via a postinst for a new version of acpi-support though, can it not?
[19:56] <slangasek> yes; it's an annoying process though
[19:57] <slangasek> you have to get md5sums for each of the conffiles you want to remove, and only remove those that match
[19:58] <superm1_> ah that would be rather tedious
[20:13] <wasabi> so this new cups admin thing almost works.... except it won't accept my password to change any settings.
[20:14] <cody-somerville> wasabi, You probably have to add your user to the lpadmin group
[20:14] <wasabi> seems so.
[20:14] <wasabi> error message sucks.
[20:45] <asac> superm1_: ok. i think ath_pci hacks are still required then. i'll prepare a test package
[20:46] <superm1_> asac, okay sounds good.  i'm online from another laptop, so i'll be glad to test any debs that you prepare
[21:07] <superm1_> asac, an additional comment: I came across bug 111068, which mentioned using 'iwpriv ath0 mode 3'.  I'm assuming something similar is listed in your ath_pci hacks when connecting to a 'g' network.  that makes things work again.
[21:07] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 111068 in network-manager "A bug between Atheros Communications AR5212 802.11abg nic and  Ubuntus network applet" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/111068
[21:10] <asac> superm1_: i don't think we have such a hack... but not sure right now
[21:11] <superm1_> asac, okay.  well i'll test whatever it is that you have in there once you've got it ready
[21:42] <cody-somerville> superm1_, Would you be willing to regenerate and upload xubuntu-meta for me please? :)
[21:43] <superm1_> cody-somerville, sure
[21:43] <cody-somerville> superm1_, thanks :)
[21:43] <superm1_> cody-somerville, wasn't slangasek doing that the other day though?
[21:43] <cody-somerville> superm1_, It needs to be done again
[21:44] <superm1_> cody-somerville, ah okay.
[21:44] <cody-somerville> Thanks :)
[21:44] <emgent> goalllllllll
[21:44] <emgent> IAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQUINTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAa
[21:44] <emgent> ops
[21:44] <emgent> wrong room.
[21:44]  * emgent dude
[22:11] <superm1_> cody-somerville, it's uploaded, but likely will need a release manager to take it out of the queue
[22:16] <slangasek> cody-somerville: does this round get the CD size down where it needs to be? :)
[22:20] <Stroganoff> will there be no more low memory mode in hardy?
[22:21] <slangasek> cody-somerville, superm1_: accepted, but dropping example-content is not going to be enough on its own to get the hardy alternate i386 CD size down below the limit...
[23:10] <xsakalik> Doesn't someone have experience with plugin architectures? -> Is it reasonable to put plugins into separate process (instead of threading) to ensure stability?
[23:10] <wasabi> Depends what you want those plugins to do.
[23:11] <wasabi> Look at dbus.
[23:12] <xsakalik> wasabi I've looked, but i'd rather use sockets as IPC. I was just thinking if that approach isn't totally ridiculous. Don't you know any project that utilizes processes?
[23:13] <wasabi> No. I mean look at dbus itself.
[23:13] <wasabi> dbus services themselves are your hypothetical 'plugin system'
[23:14] <xsakalik> wasabi, can you elaborate it? (little more)
[23:14] <wasabi> And I suspect you should just use a better language if you're having crashes in one plugin crash another.
[23:14] <wasabi> dbus loads processes.
[23:14] <wasabi> On demand.
[23:14] <wasabi> Basically exactly like what you are talking about.
[23:14] <wasabi> also this is a bit offtopic for this #
[23:15] <xsakalik> Sorry, what channel should I go to?
[23:15] <wasabi> Got me.
[23:15] <Stroganoff> #c
[23:16] <xsakalik> ok, I'll try it there, thx
[23:18] <LaserJock> maybe that should be our new default
[23:19] <LaserJock> "go to ##c"
[23:20] <iwkse> hi all, i was speaking last day about the initramfs bug on booting from usb-cdrom
[23:20] <iwkse> there's anyone here to speak?
[23:28] <Seveas> iwkse, bugreports should go to launchpad
[23:28] <Seveas> !bugs | iwkse
[23:28] <ubotu> iwkse: If you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its derivatives, please file a bug report at: http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu  -  Bugs in/wishes for the bots can be filed at http://launchpad.net/ubuntu-bots
[23:41] <iwkse> Seveas: thanks, i'm trying to check if it's duplicated