[10:42] <lxsu> hmmm.. är detta en svensk kanal?
[14:21] <cody-somerville> Hey
[14:21] <cody-somerville> I'm having trouble getting the Xubuntu docs to build
[14:22] <cody-somerville> Is this a known issue?
[14:22] <cody-somerville> "make -C xubuntu" seems to work...
[14:30] <mdke> cody-somerville: "make all" works alright. Xubuntu docs are done slightly oddly though. What seems to be the problem?
[14:31] <cody-somerville> Well, it turns out I can build it just fine if I type "make -C xubuntu"
[14:31] <cody-somerville> It seems that the Makefile in the xubuntu branch needs updating
[14:31] <cody-somerville> mdke, Also, I've just regenerated the pot files. So I need to upload them to launchpad right?
[14:33] <mdke> no, they will be imported fine if you do an upload
[14:33] <cody-somerville> For example, I'd visit https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/xubuntu-docs/+pots/about-xubuntu/+upload and upload the pot for about-xubuntu
[14:33] <mdke> cody-somerville: so "make all" didn't work for you?
[14:33] <cody-somerville> There is no taget all :)
[14:33] <mdke> sure there is
[14:33] <mdke> I just did it
[14:33] <cody-somerville> I'm running this from the top directory
[14:33] <cody-somerville> not in xubuntu/
[14:34] <mdke> all: clean style index
[14:34] <mdke> right, you need to do it from xubuntu/
[14:34] <cody-somerville> Okay, so can I update the Makefile in the top directory to do just that?
[14:34] <cody-somerville> Or will that break things?
[14:34] <mdke> I doubt the Makefile in the top directory is used at all
[14:34] <mdke> we can remove it
[14:35] <cody-somerville> Okay, sounds good
[14:36]  * cody-somerville does some tidy work
[14:38] <cody-somerville> mdke, Do the xubuntu-docs really need to depend on the ubuntu-docs? :)
[14:38] <cody-somerville> in the build-depends
[14:39]  * cody-somerville will try building without it.
[14:40] <mdke> cody-somerville: no idea I haven't ever touched xubuntu-doc packaging. Can't think of a reason though
[14:40] <mdke> is it including a document from /usr/share/ubuntu-docs maybe?
[14:40]  * mdke leaves for a bit
[14:41] <cody-somerville> OooOoo... it probably is
[14:42] <mdke> serverguide?
[14:48] <cody-somerville> the serverguide doesn't seem to be in the bazaar branch
[14:50] <cody-somerville> mdke, Shouldn't xml2po be in the make all rule?
[14:51] <cody-somerville> or atleast src-tarball?
[14:53]  * cody-somerville assumes you want update pot files when you create the src-tarball
[14:59]  * cody-somerville wonders if teamstuff needs to be in the xubuntu branch
[15:15] <cody-somerville> mdke, the dependency is:
[15:15] <cody-somerville> /usr/share/ubuntu-docs/common/prepare-firefox-startpage-translations
[16:49] <mdke> cody-somerville: no, we don't update pot files when building the source
[16:50] <cody-somerville> So how goes launchpad get the pot files again?
[16:50] <cody-somerville> *does
[16:50] <mdke> it imports them from the source package
[16:53] <mdke> cody-somerville: why did you remove build/ ?
[16:53] <cody-somerville> mdke, Because it isn't required
[16:54] <cody-somerville> mdke, When you tell it to build, it'll re-add it
[16:54] <mdke> but having it at least shows people where stuff is building
[16:55] <mdke> all the other branches use it...
[16:55] <cody-somerville> It is superfluous
[16:55]  * mdke shrugs
[16:56] <cody-somerville> I don't have a strong feeling about it
[16:56] <cody-somerville> I was just cleaning things up
[16:56] <cody-somerville> It should be as close to what I would take to package as possible
[16:56] <cody-somerville> IMHO
[16:57] <mdke> well, the branches *are* what you package
[16:57] <mdke> they build straight out of the branch, that's the whole point
[16:57] <mdke> I have no problem with cleaning up, but I'm just surprised you removed it while all the other branches use it
[17:04] <cody-somerville> Xubuntu continues to use it
[17:04] <cody-somerville> It just doesn't exist in the clean branch
[17:04] <mdke> cody-somerville: yes, I understand what you've done
[17:04] <mdke> dsas: thanks for the work on the browser homepage - works great
[17:05] <cody-somerville> mdke, Would you prefer that I put it back? :)
[17:07] <mdke> cody-somerville: I just think that having it there means that people will be aware of where they can find the html if they build it. It's not a big thing though
[17:08] <cody-somerville> I'll put it back because the clean rule in debian/rules deletes it for me anyhow
[17:10] <mdke> cody-somerville: thanks
[17:11] <cody-somerville> Pushed up to revision 3663.
[17:14] <cody-somerville> mdke, What do you think of my proposal to ubuntu-doc?
[18:21] <mdke> cody-somerville: I'm not sure about it
[18:28] <cody-somerville> The fact that I can't properly associate the package with a series is annoying
[18:28] <mdke> cody-somerville: does it prevent you from doing anything?
[18:29] <mdke> i think that launchpad eventually will support having more than one branch associated with a series
[18:29] <cody-somerville> It makes my life easier as a packager :)
[18:29] <mdke> cody-somerville: is there anything more than simply the lp: shortcut?#
[18:30] <cody-somerville> When I'm in the source package pages, I can quickly jump to the appropriate bazaar branch
[18:31] <mdke> cody-somerville: can a source package page not be linked to a branch which isn't associated with a series?
[18:31] <cody-somerville> Sadly, no
[18:31] <mdke> brb
[18:31] <cody-somerville> It has to do with bug reporting and stuff too
[18:31] <cody-somerville> launchpad is complicated
[18:31] <cody-somerville> but neat
[19:22] <mdke> cody-somerville: yes. It is doable I suppose, but I'm a bit sceptical about whether it is likely to cause any further fragmentation between the various branches
[19:23] <mdke> cody-somerville: also I'm concerned that a project which doesn't really exist outside of Ubuntu should have so many separate projects and even an umbrella project
[19:23] <mdke> cody-somerville: I just wonder whether the correct solution isn't to get Launchpad to support more than one branch per series
[19:23] <mdke> or open more series...
[19:24] <cody-somerville> You could get rid of the current model, yes.
[19:24] <cody-somerville> instead of by release, by derivative
[19:24] <mdke> or by both
[19:26] <cody-somerville> Why not just have separate products then?
[19:26] <mdke> because different projects means different urls, different teams associated, and more maintenance
[19:27] <cody-somerville> What maintenance do you have to do now?
[19:29] <mdke> cody-somerville: bug lists and release series, I guess
[19:29] <cody-somerville> Currently you can only manage the release series for Ubuntu's docs
[19:30] <mdke> that's right
[19:30] <cody-somerville> Launchpad was not designed to work this way
[19:30] <cody-somerville> Xubuntu docs and Ubuntu docs are separate products
[19:31] <cody-somerville> So there should be two products
[19:31] <cody-somerville> Branch ownership will remain the same, etc. etc.
[19:31] <mdke> that's where we differ
[19:31] <mdke> I think they aren't separate projects :)
[19:31] <cody-somerville> But we'll be able to take advantage of the launchpad infrastructure
[19:31] <cody-somerville> I'm not saying they're separate projects, mdke :)
[19:32] <cody-somerville> I'm saying they're separate products
[19:32] <cody-somerville> And thats why launchpad offers the super-project
[19:32] <mdke> that's just linguistics
[19:32] <mdke> Launchpad calls them projects though
[19:32] <cody-somerville> They have transitioned to that language, yes.
[19:33] <cody-somerville> How about I get some sleep before we discuss this further? :)
[19:33] <cody-somerville> Because I know what I want to say but I can't seem to get it out right
[19:34] <mdke> that's fine, I haven't made my mind up either
[19:34] <cody-somerville> mdke, Did you see the Xubuntu meeting announcement on the ml?
[19:34] <mdke> I don't think so
[19:35] <cody-somerville> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2008-March/003620.html
[19:35] <cody-somerville> It would be really cool if you could come
[19:37] <mdke> cody-somerville: I'll see, although i don't know much about xubuntu or its direction
[19:38] <mdke> what's the basic problem?
[19:38] <cody-somerville> Lack of direction
[19:38] <cody-somerville> :)
[19:39] <mdke> from your email it sounds like there are more than one competing directions
[19:40] <mdke> not too sure about the grammar of that, but you get the idea
[19:40] <cody-somerville> I would agree with that statement
[19:41] <mdke> about grammar?
[19:41] <cody-somerville> We have the "lets provide a lightweight desktop" crew and the "lets provide an xfce4 extremist desktop" crew
[19:41] <cody-somerville> no, about the competing directions
[19:41] <mdke> i see. is an xfce4 extremist desktop lighter than the first type?
[19:41] <mdke> or heavier?
[20:01] <cody-somerville> much lighter
[20:01] <cody-somerville> And buggier :(
[20:12] <mdke> cody-somerville: i understand
[20:13] <cody-somerville> I'd like Xubuntu to be useful
[20:13] <cody-somerville> So have community input (ie. not just xubuntu-specific people) would be a Good Idea (TM) IMHO
[20:14] <mdke> i'll see what I can do
[20:14] <cody-somerville> *having
[22:22] <mdke> sommer: what's the status of that new material for the serverguide?
[22:24] <sommer> working on it... do you mean the bacula section?
[22:24] <mdke> sommer: yeah
[22:24] <mdke>  far away?
[22:24] <sommer> ya... haven't started converting the wiki article to docbook yet
[22:24] <mdke> ah ok
[22:25] <mdke> sommer: did you see my email to the list about the test wiki for wiki->docbook conversion?
[22:25] <sommer> ya, haven't had much time to try it out though
[22:25] <mdke> that should quicken things up, you just need to run it through tidy afterwards... and last time I looked there were some problems with whitespacing
[22:25] <sommer> I usually do the conversion by hand, because it also allows for proof reading :-)
[22:26] <mdke> fair enough
[22:26] <sommer> the new section should be ready in a couple of hours at most
[22:26] <mdke> perfect
[22:26] <mdke> I was going to request an ubuntu-docs upload tomorrow
[22:26] <sommer> if for whatever reason it's not I'll let you know... definitely by tomorrow morning
[22:27] <mdke> no worries, if not possible we can upload the pot template manually to rosetta to start people working on it
[22:27] <sommer> there's still a couple of updates... installation section, likewise-open, and jeos section as well
[22:27] <mdke> I removed generic/server this evening
[22:27] <sommer> ya, noticed the commit message, cool
[22:27] <mdke> sommer: by update do you mean new material?
[22:28] <sommer> nope mostly corrrections/updates to commands
[22:28] <mdke> fine
[22:29] <mdke> looking pretty good for string freeze on thursday
[22:29] <sommer> the jeos section update may be some significant content though... it was orginally written with vmware in mind, but now jeos supports kvm really well
[22:29] <mdke> if only we can sort that dvd stuff out
[22:29] <sommer> ya, I was thinking that when I'm done with the server stuff I could take a look at it
[22:29] <mdke> isn't jeos a different flavour of Ubuntu to the server edition?
[22:29] <mdke> what's the relationship?
[22:29] <sommer> yes and no
[22:30] <sommer> jeos is a customized server edition flavour geared toward running as a virtualized guest os
[22:30] <sommer> basically it's only the drivers and software needed to load into vmware, qemu, kvm, etc
[22:30] <sommer> it's pretty cool stuff
[22:30] <mdke> and it is used as a server?
[22:31] <sommer> it can be no dooubt about it
[22:31] <mdke> interesting
[22:31] <sommer> doubt even
[22:31] <mdke> so it's like a virtual server :)
[22:31] <sommer> precisely
[22:31] <sommer> the total install is like 300M, or there abouts it's pretty slick
[22:32] <mdke> do you think it's better to be included in the serverguide, or as a separate document? is it something people running the server or desktop editions will use?
[22:32] <sommer> heh... I've wondered that myself
[22:33] <sommer> I think it can be either, but at this point I'd say mostly centered around server
[22:34] <mdke> so you can use it from one of those two editions?
[22:34] <mdke> or at least install it
[22:35] <mdke> the serverguide is pretty enormous right now so I'm just concerned to ensure everything is appropriately placed in there
[22:35] <sommer> sure, but the server edition has more virtualization optimizations then desktop, so it will probably run better using server
[22:35] <mdke> ok
[22:36] <mdke> it takes ages to load the doc in yelp :(
[22:36] <mdke> should the jeos section be inside the Virtualisation section?
[22:37] <sommer> maybe, but since there are so many subsections it's a little hard to navigate
[22:38] <mdke> it's a little hard to tell what it is from the title unless you know already
[22:39] <mdke> still, not a bit issue
[22:39] <mdke> big*
[22:40] <sommer> since it's getting pretty late in the game for hardy, do you want to leave it as is for now, and if there's need we can move it for ibex?
[22:41] <mdke> I guess it would be difficult to move it?
[22:42] <mdke> yes, let's leave it, we have enough to do
[22:43] <sommer> shouldn't be too bad, just changing sect1 > sect2; sect2 > sect3
[22:43] <mdke> argh
[22:44] <sommer> ?
[22:44] <mdke> i hate that stuff :)
[22:45] <sommer> heh
[23:08] <sommer> sigh... bacula package is still borded
[23:08] <sommer> borked even
[23:08] <sommer> mdke: when's the latest I can submit the new bacula section?
[23:08] <sommer> aside from the 20th :-)
[23:09] <sommer> mdke: at this point I'm thinking bacula section will have to wait for ibex
[23:53] <j1mc> mdke: are you around?