[00:03] <Fujitsu> \sh_away: Through the `Remove linked CVE' or similar link.
[00:07] <Legendario> LaserJock, how do i check for it? If i say it is a python software, it is unlikely to use it. Am I right?
[00:07] <bddebian> Heya gang
[00:54] <emgent> heya people
[00:57]  * Hobbsee waves
[00:58]  * RAOF shores
[01:04] <PMantis> Hi again guys. I hope someone new will read this and be able to help. I setup my own repository, and apt-get update is complaining it can't download my Release file. Apache logs show a 304 error (not changed). Huh? even if I 'touch' the file, add a package, run apt-ftparchive, etc... same error. I'm confused.
[01:10] <PMantis> Ok, more news. if I delete the Release.gpg all works, except it's not a secure apt repository.
[02:58] <ethana2> Is tremulous 1.1.1 in repos?
[02:59] <ethana2> for Ubuntu Hardy?
[02:59] <Hobbsee> ethana2: packages.ubuntu.com would tell you that
[02:59] <Hobbsee> and no, it is now
[02:59] <ethana2> thanks
[02:59] <Hobbsee> er, not
[02:59] <LaserJock> looks like 1.1.0
[02:59] <ethana2> 1.1.0 is not release quality
[02:59] <ethana2> ...but 1.2 is nearly mythical
[03:00] <ethana2> the trem folks put together some good stuff but they're disorganized as heck
[03:00] <ethana2> there's a backport at....
[03:00] <ethana2> http://tremulous.tjw.org/backport/linux/
[03:00] <ethana2> it needs to replace 1.1 in repos, if possible
[03:01] <LaserJock> ethana2: we're in Feature Freeze, we would have to have an exception filed
[03:01] <ethana2> oh
[03:01] <ethana2> *sigh*
[03:01] <ethana2> wait, they freeze /universe/ repos??
[03:02] <ethana2> is this why pidgin's been like 4 releases old for the past....
[03:02] <RAOF> No; pidgin is in main.
[03:02] <ethana2> oh that's right
[03:02] <ethana2> forgot about that
[03:02] <ScottK> Debian doesn't have it either, so it'd have to be packaged by someone: http://packages.qa.debian.org/t/tremulous.html
[03:02] <RAOF> Also, just because it's in Universe doesn't mean its not supported.  We still want to stabilise!
[03:02] <ethana2> right
[03:02] <ethana2> i'll ask the trem folks a quick question then
[03:03] <RAOF> Has anyone else seen build warning from dpkg-shlibdeps when building something against libgtk-x11?
[03:03] <RAOF> s/warning/warnings/
[03:03] <Hobbsee> RAOF: better than that.  it's in multiverse.
[03:04] <RAOF> Hobbsee: I'm torn about trying for a Gnome Do FFe.  On the one hand, the new version is *a lot* more useful.  On the other, there's a lot of changes :/
[03:05] <RAOF> It also handles errors in plugins better...
[03:06] <RAOF> ...and not many people use it yet...
[03:06] <Hobbsee> RAOF: please stick it in a ppa somewhere
[03:06] <Hobbsee> i'd like to see it in
[03:06] <RAOF> Ok.
[03:10] <RAOF> Repeat after me: we check it builds *before* uploading to PPA :/
[03:10] <ethana2> yeah
[03:10] <ethana2> like, say... libc
[03:10] <RAOF> ethana2: Oh, that built just fine.
[03:10] <ethana2> oh yeah
[03:10] <ethana2> compiler flags
[03:11] <RAOF> It would have been _much_ better if it had simply FTBFS :)
[03:11] <ethana2> FTBFS?
[03:11] <RAOF> Failed To Build From Source
[03:11] <ethana2> ah
[03:11] <ethana2> so it threw no errors
[03:11] <RAOF> AKA: you suck.
[03:12] <RAOF> Indeed.  It threw no errors.  And I think other packages would have built against it properly... just not run.
[03:12] <ethana2> interesting
[03:12] <RAOF> And for added fun, the compile flags aren't set in a pbulider environment.
[03:15] <ethana2> Hmm...
[03:16] <ethana2> Is there anyway I can set my core OS and utils to stable repos...
[03:16] <ethana2> and use beta-stability repos for userland?
[03:16] <ethana2> ...and hardware drivers?
[03:17] <RAOF> No.
[03:17] <RAOF> Not really.
[03:19] <ScottK2> ethana2: This is why we have backports.  So that you can get newer apps built for the stable release.
[03:24]  * RAOF goes to fill out some FFe paperwork.
[03:27] <RAOF> Hobbsee: The new Do is now in the do-core PPA, if you're interested (https://edge.launchpad.net/~do-core/+archive).  amd64 has built already, i386 is yet to build.
[03:27] <ethana2> oh wait, yeah.....
[03:28] <ethana2> ScottK2: I had all the way up to proposed updates enabled
[03:28] <Hobbsee> RAOF: sounds like i need to abuse power then.
[03:28] <RAOF> Hobbsee: Eh.  PPA has become *fast* to build (so fast that I frequently get clock-skew on my nouveau builds).
[03:28] <ethana2> RAOF: what percent of their current market would canonical lose by ditchind i386 - i586?
[03:29] <RAOF> ethana2: Absolutely no idea.  We probably wouldn't gain much by ditching < pentium pro, though.
[03:30] <ScottK2> Hobbsee: Would you lease ack Bug #203332
[03:30] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 203332 in claws-mail-extra-plugins "[FFe] claws-mail 3.3.1-1ubuntu1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/203332
[03:30] <ethana2> MMX?
[03:30] <ethana2> RAOF: half the packages already need i686 or greater in repos
[03:31] <RAOF> ethana2: Code which benefits from SIMD generally already has it; it's also difficult for the compiler to dynamically do SMID.
[03:31] <StevenK> Screaming Cindy is *hard*.
[03:31] <RAOF> ethana2: Alternatively, you could join the x86-64 self-flagellation society.
[03:31] <ethana2> Hmm...  I guess what I mean to say is that for all practical purposes, desktop ubuntu requires an i686 or greater
[03:31] <StevenK> Usually it involves register brutalisation
[03:32] <ethana2> ...so officially supporting anything less is less productive than supporting ppc
[03:33] <RAOF> But officially *breaking* < i686 gets you practically nothing, and breaks unofficial stuff :)
[03:33] <StevenK> I seriously doubt "half the packages already need i686 or greater in repos
[03:33] <ethana2> libc, all the codecs....
[03:33] <ethana2> oh, nevermind
[03:33] <RAOF> ethana2: Really?
[03:33] <StevenK> libc6 is not i686 optimised.
[03:33] <ethana2> they compile a version for i686 though
[03:33] <StevenK> And?
[03:33] <ethana2> i guess my final proposal is that the number of people....
[03:34] <StevenK> The default libc isn't i686 optimised
[03:34] <RAOF> I mean, we have libc6-686, and all the (sane) codecs use liboil which is a bunch of dynamically called SMID code.
[03:34] <ethana2> running ubuntu on pre PII CPU's should be gathered
[03:34] <ethana2> ...and then we should have a look at them
[03:34] <RAOF> (By "sane" I mean "gstreamer")
[03:35] <ethana2> liboil sounds like it could be handy on the ps3
[03:35] <RAOF> Quite possibly.
[03:35] <ethana2> dynamically calling alternate code to run on multiple ISAs
[03:35] <ethana2> ...that's... that's brilliant for the Cell
[03:35] <RAOF> You mean, SPUs, right?
[03:35] <ethana2> yes
[03:35] <ScottK2> Hobbsee: Thanks.
[03:36] <RAOF> Anyway.  I want to make Do rock in Hardy, and towards that end...
[03:36]  * RAOF goes off to read FFe again.
[03:36] <Hobbsee> ScottK2: y/w
[03:39] <ethana2> If a package is low enough in stability or has too many bugs
[03:39] <ethana2> does it get booted from universe to multiverse?
[03:39] <emgent> heya people
[03:39] <ethana2> emgent: heya
[03:40] <Hobbsee> ethana2: no, it's free vs non-free
[03:40] <RAOF> ethana2: No.  Multiverse is only for non-free code.  If it's too buggy, it just gets dropped.
[03:40] <ethana2> oh
[03:40] <ethana2> *sigh*
[03:41] <ethana2> would it be blasphemy to suggest dropping tremulous?
[03:42] <ethana2> emgent: you a web designer?
[03:43] <ethana2> developer*
[03:43] <ScottK2> ethana2: What would be your rationale?
[03:44] <ScottK2> Note: we have lots of buggy stuff.  Usually it's just abandoned with no upstream buggy stuff so there's no hope of improvement that gets removed.
[03:44] <ethana2> ScottK2: well...  many outstanding and obvious bugs..  everybody who wants a release quality version has to pick between 1.1 and a feature backport
[03:45] <ScottK2> Help us get 1.1 then.
[03:45] <ethana2> 1.1 is in repos
[03:45] <ScottK2> Ah.
[03:45] <ethana2> 1.1 is not release quality
[03:45] <ScottK2> Oh.
[03:45] <ScottK2> So help us get whatever is the right version then.
[03:45] <ethana2> there is no right version
[03:45]  * ScottK2 needs to go clean the kitchen.  Good night.
[03:45] <ethana2> 1.1 needs two bugfixes backported
[03:45]  * emgent upgrading devbox to hardy
[03:45] <emgent> night ScottK2
[03:45] <ethana2> 'night
[03:46] <ScottK2> ethana2: Then make a debdiff with the fixes and we'll get it uploaded.
[03:46] <ScottK2> So we can shipped a working one.
[03:46] <ethana2> ScottK2: time to figure out what the heck's going on
[03:46] <ethana2> this should be fun for a non-coder
[03:46] <ethana2> i'll do what i can.
[03:46] <ScottK2> fair enough
[03:46] <ScottK2> Good night really this time ...
[03:46] <ethana2> yes
[03:49] <_MMA_> ethana2: You're planning on getting a Tremulous SVN (or whatever) in the repos?
[03:50] <ethana2> _MMA_: the trem folks are disorganized as heck
[03:50] <ethana2> _MMA_: and basically what's in repos isn't good enough
[03:50] <ethana2> they never took the time to make a solid stable release
[03:50] <ethana2> so somebody needs to take 1.1 and backport a few major bugfixes
[03:51] <ethana2> ...it's coded in C..
[03:51] <ethana2> You know, I don't think I'm going to be able to be that person
[03:51] <_MMA_> ethana2: We need to sty close to what they have officially released or pull from whatever VCS they use.
[03:51] <ethana2> unless there's no conflict in that code at all
[03:51] <ethana2> i'll ask
[03:51] <Hobbsee> RAOF: why do you have 0 karma on that account?
[03:52] <Hobbsee> https://edge.launchpad.net/~raof-ubuntu should be merged
[03:53] <ethana2> guys, it's worse than i thought
[03:53] <ethana2> anyone who uses a tremulous client that's not broken horribly
[03:53] <ethana2> can't play on trem servers
[03:53] <ethana2> or the majority of them at least
[03:53] <RAOF> Hobbsee: !!!
[03:53] <_MMA_> ethana2: Thats a problem of the Trem community really.
[03:54] <ethana2> yes
[03:54] <_MMA_> ethana2: We really just cant start throwing any old patch/mod into the package. tjw or otherwise.
[03:54] <ethana2> they use svn, btw
[03:54] <ethana2> yarrr
[03:54] <_MMA_> Cool.
[03:56] <Hobbsee> RAOF: hm?
[03:56] <ethana2> 1.1 is hopeless, investigating svn head
[03:56] <RAOF> Hobbsee: I didn't know I had a duplicate launchpad account.  It's now merged in.
[03:56] <_MMA_> ethana2: The problem is the community upgrades their servers with all kinds of stuff and breaks the repo packages. Run a server from the repo packages with the same client ant you're fine.
[03:56] <Hobbsee> RAOF: :)
[03:57] <ethana2> _MMA_: yeah
[03:57] <_MMA_> ethana2: And I would further say this work should be coordinated with the debian-games team which absorbed the Ubuntu one. AFAIK.
[03:57] <ethana2> Is there a way to have a package that doesn't exist in stable repos?
[03:58] <ethana2> ..but does in backports
[03:58] <ethana2> ..or proposed?
[03:58] <_MMA_> ethana2: PPA
[03:58] <ethana2> sorry, what's PPA again, i forgot
[03:58] <_MMA_> But that unofficial and doesnt really benefit all.
[03:59] <_MMA_> Personal Package Archive
[03:59] <ethana2> ah
[04:01] <_MMA_> I watch the Trem community close and regardless of how slow they are going they are active. It's best to wait for a official release. Or at lease a stable SVN revision that's acceptability to Debian as well.
[04:04] <ethana2> hmm
[04:04] <Hobbsee> RAOF: is there any point in the plugins if i don't use rhythmbox or amarok?
[04:04] <ethana2> Well, 1.2 should be out sometime during the Year of the Linux Desktop
[04:04] <ethana2> with all Ubuntu is doing, that should be around 2009
[04:06] <RAOF> Hobbsee: _Yes_.  There's a shiny new launchpad plugin, the OpenSearch plugin for web searching, and a bunch of other plugins.
[04:06] <Hobbsee> RAOF: right, thought so
[04:06] <RAOF> The rhythmbox & amarok plugins are separated out into different packages because Do doesn't yet have the ability to selectively disable plugins.
[04:07] <RAOF> Hobbsee: What *do* you use on the music front?
[04:07] <Hobbsee> RAOF: exaile
[04:08] <RAOF> Ah, right.
[04:09] <_MMA_> Hobbsee: Are you using it in Hardy? With the EQ? I get terrible static with any gstreamer app that uses the EQ. :-/
[04:10]  * StevenK is waiting for Exaile to get better
[04:10] <StevenK> But it shows a lot of promise
[04:11] <Hobbsee> _MMA_: yes, and i'm not sure on the eq
[04:11] <Hobbsee> i haven't ntoiced static
[04:11] <_MMA_> k
[04:12] <RAOF> Hobbsee: bug #203415 is available for your delectation.
[04:12] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 203415 in gnome-do "FFe request: Gnome-Do 0.4.0.1" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/203415
[04:13] <_MMA_> StevenK: It's really good now but I am moving away from gstreamer apps. Something about sound in gstreamer just doesnt sound, right.
[04:13]  * StevenK just uses Quod Libet
[04:13]  * RAOF uses Rhythbox.
[04:13] <RAOF> And will try out banshee-1 anytime now...
[04:14] <_MMA_> Audacious here now. :P
[04:15] <ethana2> _MMA_: trem is short on manpower.. all the people they attract are game hackers these days
[04:15] <ethana2> they don't want more of them, but they need more core devs
[04:15] <ethana2> it's suffocating
[04:15] <ethana2> hackers, hackers, everywhere...  and not a patch to sync
[04:15]  * StevenK has a plot to re-evaluate music players after Hardy
[04:15] <_MMA_> ethana2: Sure.
[04:16] <StevenK> I'm not sure I like my music player taking up 600Mb
[04:16] <_MMA_> StevenK: Wow. And that is?
[04:16] <StevenK> Well, 567MB virtual, 63MB resident
[04:16] <StevenK> Quod Libet
[04:17] <RAOF> Not so bad, then.
[04:17] <_MMA_> Yeah.
[04:17] <_MMA_> StevenK: Large collection?
[04:17] <StevenK> _MMA_: ~ 1,400 songs
[04:17] <RAOF> StevenK: Rythmbox manages 922Mb virt here (and 72Mb resident, with 23Mb shared)
[04:18] <StevenK> Yummy
[04:18] <RAOF> Part of that's the 64bit tax, of course.
[04:18] <StevenK> Mmmmm, so is mine.
[04:18] <RAOF> Heh. OK :)
[04:19] <Hobbsee> ah, there we go.  it's found the update now
[04:19]  * Hobbsee loves buildd admin powers
[04:44]  * StevenK tries to translate Amaranth's quit message
[04:44] <Amaranth> and no eggs
[04:44] <StevenK> I thought so
[04:44] <StevenK> Tool - Die Eier Von Satan.mp3
[04:44] <Amaranth> it's from a tool song
[04:44] <Amaranth> :D
[04:45]  * StevenK grins and high fives Amaranth 
[04:46]  * StevenK queues it
[04:47] <RAOF> Satan's Eggs?
[04:47] <StevenK> RAOF: Right.
[04:47] <StevenK> Well, literally, "The Eggs of Satan"
[04:47] <Amaranth> RAOF: it's a really evil sounding song but it's just a recipe for hash cookies in german
[04:48] <StevenK> That doesn't include eggs
[04:48] <Amaranth> i mean, if you didn't know what they were saying it sounds like a song about devil worship or something :P
[04:48] <RAOF> Heh.
[04:48] <RAOF> Hobbsee: And for your further enjoyment, bug #203420
[04:49] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 203420 in do-plugins "FFe request: do-plugins 0.4.0" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/203420
[04:57] <Amaranth> RAOF: holy crap, airlied has drm multi-master support working
[04:57] <Amaranth> and kernel modesetting
[04:57] <RAOF> Multi-master?
[04:57] <Amaranth> so user switching with no flicker and compiz on two users
[04:57] <RAOF> Yay!  Suspend on nouveau creeps ever closer!
[04:57] <Amaranth> multi-master, multiple X servers with access to the drm
[04:58] <RAOF> Awesome.
[04:58] <RAOF> It seems compiz may have spawned a huge make-X-awesome push.
[04:59] <Amaranth> RAOF: that's what i hoped would happen :)
[04:59] <Amaranth> and the thing i argued for in pushing to enable it by default in gutsy :P
[04:59] <Amaranth> we enabled it so everyone else had to to match features and now a bunch of people are working to make it suck less
[04:59] <RAOF> And it'll only take ~2 releases.
[05:00] <Amaranth> hehe, yeah
[05:00] <RAOF> A year's turnaround from "_totally_ sucks" to "rock on" is pretty good :)
[05:10] <ethana2> wait, so can both my users have 3d
[05:10] <ethana2> ..my dual seat has both on one radeon card now
[05:11] <ethana2> ..but it would be nice to have opengl before figuring out how to move one to my intel integrated
[05:11] <RAOF> ethana2: As long as you run git head of _everything_.  Oh, and it's probably for intel only right now, although maybe it isn't.
[05:12] <ethana2> so my /other/ dual seat may be able to start working with git drivers
[05:12] <ethana2> *sigh*
[05:12] <ethana2> i'm a glutton for punishment
[05:12] <ethana2> i'd settle for getting this rig off of userful, it's not letting me do what I need to do
[05:13] <ethana2> i should have no problem with opengl when each seat uses its own card, right?
[05:14] <ethana2> without git cloning?
[05:14] <RAOF> As long as neither is using a blob, I think the answer is yes.
[05:14] <ethana2> sweet
[05:14] <ethana2> neither is, no nvidia here
[05:15] <ethana2> it'd be awesome if canonical purchased userful and merged it with Screens and Graphics
[05:15] <ethana2> ...while I'm dreaming, I'd like a CBE based tabletPC
[05:18] <tonyyarusso> And I'd like AMD to drop everything and write a functional driver for my graphics card, then release it under the GPL.
[05:18] <ethana2> tonyyarusso: specs are great
[05:18] <StevenK> Free pipe dreams, news at 11
[05:18] <tonyyarusso> ethana2: haven't done anything for me yet.
[05:18] <ethana2> what time zone?
[05:18] <ethana2> tonyyarusso: oh, they will
[05:18] <tonyyarusso> heh, when I buy a new computer maybe
[05:19] <ethana2> tonyyarusso: as gallium stabilizes, you'll see some really exciting things
[05:19] <ethana2> i still have a radeon 9200se
[05:19] <ethana2> and a rage mobility
[05:19] <ethana2> they're going to release old specs too
[05:19] <ethana2> don't despair
[05:19] <tonyyarusso> ethana2: this is a Radeon Mobility X300, btw
[05:19] <ethana2> then it's a matter of months
[05:20] <tonyyarusso> You think so?  For full OSS 3D compositing support?
[05:20] <ethana2> yes.
[05:21] <tonyyarusso> That'd be nice.
[05:21]  * tonyyarusso writes sped for Intrepid, assigns ethana2 ;)
[05:22] <ethana2> actually, i'm an idea guy
[05:22] <ethana2> i like to know /exactly/ what's going on
[05:22] <ethana2> ...maybe within a year i'll start coding stuff in C++
[05:22] <ethana2> ....but the current generation of GUI is not something i want to touch
[05:49] <dholbach> good morning
[05:49] <RAOF> ethana2: Eh.  Just touch the bindings in sensible languages, then.  Python, C#, Java, Boo, Nemerle, F#, haskell...
[05:51] <ethana2> I'm not talking about languages
[05:51] <ethana2> I'm saying the 'window' paradigm isn't something i want to touch
[05:51] <ethana2> let me get you a link
[05:52] <ethana2> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=521131
[05:52] <ubotu> Gnome bug 521131 in general "Merge gnome panel and window decorator, reimplement standard window components and decorations as panel applets." [Enhancement,Unconfirmed]
[05:52] <RAOF> ethana2: Aaah.  You'd prefer document-centric, ala Gnome 3?
[05:52] <ethana2> That's what I want to code from
[05:52] <ethana2> for*
[05:52] <ethana2> if gnome3 can do what I want
[05:52] <ethana2> exactly
[05:52] <ethana2> then perhaps
[05:52] <RAOF> Dear nvidia: I hate you.
[05:52] <ethana2> did you sign the petition to that effect?
[05:53] <Amaranth> ethana2: that's so crack
[05:53] <ethana2> thanks.
[05:53] <ethana2> i'll settle for nothing less
[05:54] <ethana2> ..which is pretty much regardless of what 'so crack' means
[05:54] <ethana2> ^_^
[05:55] <Amaranth> ethana2: i imagine as soon as someone cares to look they'll close your bug as "total crack"
[05:55] <ethana2> i've got several people who say otherwise
[05:55] <ethana2> it's old though
[05:55] <ethana2> that incarnation
[05:55] <ethana2> since then i've added a window list that auto-expands to serve also as the window title bar applet
[05:56] <ethana2> ..and made my ideas more similar to the current default ubuntu config
[05:57] <Amaranth> is "over my dead body" reason enough to vote down an idea or close a bug report?
[05:57] <Amaranth> basically "not going to happen dude" but the reason it's not going to happen is because i won't let it :P
[05:57] <ethana2> the stuff of flame wars, that
[05:57] <ethana2> it's all optional
[05:58] <RAOF> That's not a good excuse :)
[05:58] <ethana2> if you want to keep /your/ gui exactly as it is now, fine
[05:58] <ethana2> but i want what i want
[05:58] <ethana2> and it's not windows, and it's not mac
[05:58] <StevenK> So does everyone else
[05:58] <Amaranth> ethana2: and i don't feel like writing the code for what you want
[05:58] <ethana2> ok, that's fine
[05:58] <Amaranth> ethana2: so that stops your idea pretty dead there
[05:58] <ethana2> if i must, i can hire my own team to do it
[05:59] <Amaranth> as a fork
[05:59] <ethana2> $10,000 to give people a real glimpse of this idea?
[05:59] <ethana2> yes, perhaps a fork
[05:59] <ethana2> if it comes to it
[05:59] <ethana2> and that's fine at first
[05:59] <Amaranth> "at first"?
[05:59] <ethana2> yes.
[05:59] <RAOF> ethana2: So, the first thing I think of is that windows are actually quite reasonable objects: taking the compontents of the window and scattering them means you need to do more work to provide context for them.
[05:59] <Amaranth> it'll be "until the end of time" or "until pigs fly and you manage to kill my version"
[06:00] <ethana2> *sigh*
[06:00] <ethana2> ok, then on to /bringing/ macs into this
[06:00] <ethana2> how hard is it for them to connect their menu bar with the app in focus in their mind?
[06:00] <Amaranth> don't bring macs into this, they do little right since OS X
[06:00] <ethana2> they do a heck of a lot wrong
[06:00] <ethana2> apple is evil
[06:00] <ethana2> ..but i'm saying you could do many things with my idea
[06:01] <ethana2> and people can get used to what they choose
[06:01] <Amaranth> very hard, that was the #1 thing that my grandparents and my younger cousin couldn't figure out
[06:01] <RAOF> Yeah, my partner too.
[06:01] <ethana2> well alright
[06:01] <StevenK> The only reason OS X still does that is because it's historcial baggage.
[06:01] <Amaranth> well, that is "closing a window doesn't exit the application"
[06:01] <Amaranth> s/is/and/
[06:01] <ethana2> ok, yeah that's horrible
[06:01] <ethana2> my menu applet would actually go in the window top panel
[06:01] <ethana2> what we now call 'the title bar'
[06:01] <StevenK> And dear Steve isn't going to let go of it, I suspect.
[06:02]  * RAOF doesn't particularly mind "closing window doesn't exit the app", as long as it doesn't leak too much.
[06:02] <Amaranth> StevenK: and what would they _put_ up there? :)
[06:02] <ethana2> tbh I despise Steve
[06:02] <Amaranth> RAOF: it's really bad when safari is chewing CPU and doesn't stop until you exit it completely
[06:02] <ethana2> Applications, Places, System, People
[06:02] <Amaranth> ah, gimmie
[06:02] <ethana2> ...and that's why bringing them into it was a mistake
[06:02] <ethana2> no, slimmer than gimmie
[06:02] <StevenK> Amaranth: A banner that projects what Apple products you need to buy
[06:02] <ethana2> gimmie went a little over the top
[06:02] <ethana2> just a little
[06:03] <RAOF> Amaranth: Right.  So that's a safari bug, not necessarily a problem with the idea.  Although the problem of the idea is that there'll _always_ be apps that do that.
[06:03] <Amaranth> ethana2: gimmie sounds much saner than your thing
[06:03] <ethana2> ok, yes
[06:03] <ethana2> if they're not going to do anything like that in gtk3, then what's the point of /having/ a gtk3?
[06:03] <ethana2> marketing?
[06:03] <ethana2> drastic?  assuredly.
[06:03] <Flannel> ethana2: Version number bumping!
[06:04] <Amaranth> actually that is sort of the main reason
[06:04] <Amaranth> people want to see a 3.0, we'll give them a 3.0 :P
[06:04] <ethana2> *sigh*
[06:04] <Amaranth> although since the hackfest this has been changed somewhat
[06:04] <ethana2> version numbers mean little if anything to me
[06:04] <Amaranth> now the idea for 3.0 seems to be to seal up all widgets so you can't can't directly access their internals and release that as 3.0 (since it breaks ABI)
[06:05] <ethana2> oh no!
[06:05] <ethana2> *sob*
[06:05] <Amaranth> then in later releases they can use this new freedom to replace the guts of the widgets with something based on a scene graph
[06:05] <ethana2> hmm
[06:06] <RAOF> And then: cake.
[06:06] <Amaranth> ethana2: being able to access the internals of a widget is _bad_
[06:06] <ethana2> ok
[06:06] <ethana2> unless the assumed paradigm is bad
[06:06] <Amaranth> it means they can't change anything about how the widget works without breaking compatibility
[06:06] <ethana2> ok, well we have the source
[06:06] <ethana2> they can do what they please
[06:06] <Amaranth> they can't do your right right now, for example
[06:06] <Amaranth> because it would break compatibility
[06:06] <ethana2> not with people literally /dead/ set against it
[06:07] <ethana2> i'm aware i may have to fork /every/ gnome app out there
[06:07] <Amaranth> assuming they were smoking enough crack to think your idea was worth doing, that is
[06:07] <ethana2> they don't have to be
[06:07] <Amaranth> ethana2: not every gnome app, every app in existence
[06:07] <Amaranth> if it runs on X you have to fork it and modify it
[06:07] <Amaranth> this is why big changes don't happen :P
[06:07] <ethana2> if they don't integrate well, screw 'em
[06:07] <Amaranth> you can't make everyone change and apps that don't look...funny
[06:07] <ethana2> they can load all that window decorator stuff
[06:07] <Amaranth> ethana2: and there go all your users
[06:08] <ethana2> nope
[06:08] <ethana2> Amaranth: this may be a faulty assumption..
[06:08] <Amaranth> ethana2: you won't even be able to have firefox
[06:08] <ethana2> but you didn't read every last line of that post
[06:08] <ethana2> that can be modified too
[06:08] <Amaranth> but you aren't allowed to call the result firefox :)
[06:08] <Amaranth> pretty sure it's the same with GNOME
[06:09] <ethana2> ok, persistent patch
[06:09] <Amaranth> and Ubuntu, etc
[06:09] <ethana2> that i can't count on them to not break
[06:09] <ethana2> then the mod becomes part of the environment almost
[06:09] <ethana2> the app is still firefox
[06:09] <StevenK> But then you can't call it Firefox
[06:09] <ethana2> it will be though
[06:09] <ethana2> nothing else modified, all the credits in place, everything
[06:09] <StevenK> It can't be, you can't call it Firefox
[06:10] <ethana2> *sigh*
[06:10] <ethana2> ok then, random 'element', random animal
[06:10] <StevenK> Have you read the Mozilla license? You can't call it Firefox, which is why Debian has Iceweasel
[06:10] <ethana2> ahhhhh
[06:10] <ethana2> i was wondering exactly what iceweasel was
[06:11] <ethana2> i'm thinking ...earth angel
[06:11] <ethana2> no really though, that stands to be trivial
[06:11] <ethana2> heck
[06:11] <ethana2> let the user name the app themselves
[06:11] <ethana2> or name it nothing at all!  less junk in the title applet
[06:12] <ethana2> well, this isn't as directly related to the immediate development of ubuntu as would be proper
[06:12] <ethana2> but please don't kill that gnome bug without reading all i have to say about it
[06:12] <ethana2> render my dreams in your mind
[06:13] <ethana2> as cheesy as that may sound
[06:13] <ethana2> i should probably leave this channel to prevent further off topic discussion.
[06:13] <ethana2> rock on, ubuntu devs!
[06:13] <ethana2> masters of the universe*
[06:15] <Amaranth> i think that guy is either on something or needs to be on something :/
[06:15] <RAOF> It starts out only slightly unreasonable.
[06:19] <StevenK> And then snowballs ...
[06:19] <RAOF> Indeed.  It didn't end well.
[06:22] <Amaranth> RAOF: "# Dynamic code generation for fragment/pixel shaders. " <--from the DRI project Summer of Code 2005 ideas page :P
[06:23] <RAOF> Everyone loves JIT!
[06:23] <RAOF> Amaranth: And, lo, Gallium (is meant to) implements it.
[06:23] <Amaranth> right, but this was 3 years ago :)
[06:24] <RAOF> Well, it's difficult.
[06:24] <RAOF> :)
[06:25] <Amaranth> nah, 3 years ago zrusin was just too busy inventing new maths for qt 4
[06:31]  * superm1 remembers back in the day when math used to use numbers
[07:38] <warp10> Good morning
[07:41] <Fujitsu> nxvl: UbuntuWire has returned from the dead, in case you were still wondering.
[07:42] <RAOF> Hense the sudden influx of >500 rss items in my google reader.
[07:42] <Fujitsu> Which feeds?
[07:48] <RAOF> The u-u-s feed.
[07:49] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[08:27] <DktrKranz> dholbach, thanks for sponsoring nut, I really needed it
[08:28] <\sh> moins
[08:28] <Fujitsu> Hi \sh.
[08:28] <\sh> Hey Fujitsu :)
[08:31] <\sh> ScottK , Hobbsee : thx for claws-mail...will upload in a few hours
[08:31] <dholbach> DktrKranz: np :)
[09:38] <hellboy195> TheMuso: around?
[09:45] <hellboy195> \sh: are you already excited :P  http://www.golem.de/0803/58455.html
[09:45] <hellboy195> good morning jono
[09:46] <jono> hey hellboy195
[09:48] <hellboy195> jono: maybe a little bit offtopic. any news about jokosher?
[09:54] <\sh> hellboy195: just a guess: zend-framework 1.5.0?
[09:55] <\sh> hellboy195: it's already packaged and laying on my workstation at home...need to file an FFe ;)
[09:55] <\sh> hellboy195: but first : upload claws-mail* and packaging of nexuiz (which is halfly done)
[09:56]  * hellboy195 shouts: Go! Go! Go! :D
[09:56] <\sh> hellboy195: oh wine ;)
[09:56] <hellboy195> \sh: yes wine ^^
[09:56] <\sh> hellboy195: well, let's see
[09:57] <\sh> hellboy195: I'm biased ;)
[09:57] <hellboy195> I know :P
[10:02] <DktrKranz> hellboy195, dunno how, but I GOT BEAGLE!
[10:03] <hellboy195> DktrKranz: GREAT! :) :) :) \o/
[10:04] <DktrKranz> really test-building it
[10:04] <DktrKranz> since I did *experiments* :D
[10:05] <hellboy195> ^^
[10:05] <hellboy195> So I suppose further testing before uploading. *Experiments*
[10:05] <DktrKranz> Yes
[10:05] <DktrKranz> my local copy is a mess
[10:06] <DktrKranz> so I need to clean it
[10:06] <DktrKranz> and limiting to needed stuffs
[10:07] <hellboy195> nvm. It's working and that's all that count :)
[10:08] <DktrKranz> I'm not sure it's working, I need to figure out steps I did :)
[10:10] <hellboy195> DktrKranz: Then we should wait with our party ^^
[10:10] <DktrKranz> yep
[10:11] <DktrKranz> ten minutes
[10:11] <hellboy195> xD
[10:40] <hellboy195> DktrKranz: next time we maybe should ask https://edge.launchpad.net/~kkubasik  for help :P
[10:41] <DktrKranz> heh
[10:45] <hellboy195> DktrKranz: and how's the progress?
[10:45] <DktrKranz> very good
[10:45] <DktrKranz> test build is completed
[10:46] <DktrKranz> now, testing phase :)
[10:49] <hellboy195> DktrKranz: you are the best :)
[10:50] <DktrKranz> testing phase passed \o/
[10:52] <hellboy195> DktrKranz: very fast ^^
[11:05] <DktrKranz> hellboy195, done
[11:06]  * hellboy195 waves and hugs DktrKranz :D
[11:12] <\sh_away> ok...claws-mail* uploaded
[11:13] <hellboy195> \sh_away: great, nexuiz , nexuiz , nexuiz :)
[11:15] <\sh> hellboy195: jaja..bin ja schon dran ,-)
[11:16] <hellboy195> \sh: hihi. danke -> hihi. thanks to be multilingual
[11:43] <ScottK> If I've got a library package that's mis-named (package name doesn't match soname) should I provide transitional packages when I rename it?
[11:45] <\sh> I would do that..
[11:45] <ScottK> Thanks.
[11:49] <Hobbsee> RAOF: this looks broken.
[12:04]  * jdstrand hugs Fujitsu 
[12:05] <jdstrand> Fujitsu: thanks for all the ubuntu-cve-tracker updates!
[12:05] <jdstrand> Fujitsu: I just reviewed keescook's merge of your work
[12:05] <Fujitsu> jdstrand: No problem... More to come over the next couple of days.
[12:09] <Fujitsu> jdstrand: There's still a fair bit of stuff that hasn't been merged yet, I note.
[12:11] <jdstrand> Fujitsu: I made a note to take a look at them
[12:23] <chuck_> DktrKranz: ping
[12:24] <DktrKranz> zul, pong
[12:25] <zul> Daviey: I dont get your nut merge request
[12:26]  * Hobbsee wtf's...
[12:26] <zul> hmmm..
[12:26] <DktrKranz> zul, sorry?
[12:27] <zul> DktrKranz: shoot...why do you need to merge nut for?
[12:27] <DktrKranz> zul, collectd FTBFS because nut tries to restart udev
[12:27] <DktrKranz> NMU fixed that
[12:27] <zul> ah ok..
[12:28] <zul> but I dont see it in the debdiff anything about udev
[12:28] <jdstrand> hi emgent!
[12:29] <DktrKranz> Debian fixed that with 2.1
[12:29] <Hobbsee> sladen: you around?
[12:29] <DktrKranz> debian 469855
[12:29] <ubotu> Debian bug 469855 in nut "postinst fails if udev is not running" [Serious,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/469855
[12:30] <zul> DktrKranz: ok.
[12:31] <zul> DktrKranz: ok but in the debdiff there is nothing about that
[12:32] <DktrKranz> why should it? I merged from Debian, so their changes are not visible in the debdiff
[12:32] <DktrKranz> only ours are
[12:35] <zul> DktrKranz: thanks Ill take a look
[12:36] <DktrKranz> zul, oh... daniel sponsored it this morning, it lies in unapproved ATM
[12:36] <Hobbsee> ....you're only telling him that now?
[12:36] <DktrKranz> I've seen just now it's still in u-m-s
[12:39] <DktrKranz> I'll update bug to reflect it
[12:39] <DktrKranz> sorry for the misunderstanding
[12:52] <Iulian> Hey
[13:01] <RainCT> morning
[13:02] <Iulian> Hi RainCT.
[13:21] <protonchris> dholbach: I got rid of the transitional packages on bug 190744.  If you have time for another look.
[13:21] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 190744 in libgdamm3.0 "Request: Upgrade libgdamm3.0 to upstream version 2.9.81" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/190744
[13:43] <bmk789> can anyone help me with patching/building acidrip for bug 182999?
[13:43] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 182999 in acidrip "AcidRip Fails to properly work with x264 (includes patch)." [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/182999
[13:45] <bmk789> ive downloaded the source, put the patches in debian/patches and added them to the list file, but im lost as to how to apply the patches, make the source deb then build it
[14:00] <asac> anyone can tell me how the backports process works? is there a team that signs off backport contributions?
[14:01] <persia> asac: File a bug against $(release)-backports, and the backports team will approve it for review by the archive admins.
[14:01] <persia> If there are source changes, it's a little more complicated.
[14:01] <persia> !backports
[14:01] <ubotu> If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they may go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
[14:02] <asac> persia: thanks
[14:02] <emgent> heya people
[14:12] <saysalone> hi, does anyone know where the "apply" command in ubuntu is ?
[14:13] <Hobbsee> apply?
[14:13] <saysalone> yes
[14:14] <saysalone> is there such a package ?
[14:16] <saysalone> it doesn't seem to exist
[14:17] <RainCT> saysalone: what is it?
[14:21] <saysalone> apply is a command
[14:21] <saysalone> to apply  a command to a set of parameters.
[14:25] <RainCT> ah, I see
[14:27] <RainCT> saysalone: you can try with: apt-file search /usr/bin/apply   (I can't right now as I'm upgrading to Hardy)
[14:31] <saysalone> RainCT: thanks, will try that later
[14:35] <jdong> ScottK: whenever you feel up to the task, Firefox 3.0 beta 4 backports are ready to upload
[15:01] <ScottK> jdong: On my list for maybe tonight.  That and pigdin.
[15:06] <jdong> ScottK: cool. But just for the record, you know a web browser is *SO* much cooler than an IM client, right? ;-)
[15:06] <jdong> (joking)
[15:29] <jdong> Dear Mutt:
[15:29] <jdong> Please let me pipe all tagged messages to a command.
[15:29] <jdong> Kind regards,
[15:29] <jdong> jdong.
[15:29] <StevenK> jdong: ;|
[15:29] <jdong> StevenK: does that actually work? I could've sworn it didn't do a thing
[15:30] <jdong> StevenK: I'm an idiot
[15:30]  * StevenK quotes jdong out of context
[15:30] <jdong> StevenK: I think that's a popularly known fact now
[15:30] <StevenK> :-P
[15:33] <hefe_bia> Hi! I think I have fixed bug #193606. (debdiff attached) What's the next step? Subscribing ubuntu-universe-sponsors?
[15:33] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 193606 in open-vm-tools "module-assistant fails to install open-vm-source" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193606
[15:33] <\sh> jdong: pls test latest wine if it builds on gutsy, thx :)
[15:34] <jdong> 0.9.57-0ubuntu1~7.10prevu1
[15:34] <jdong> is that latest?
[15:34] <\sh> jdong: yepp...
[15:34] <jdong> \sh: builds, works, backport request has been approved
[15:34] <\sh> jdong: but if I have time, there will be another upload with fixed build-deps and fixed polish translation
[15:34] <jdong> \sh: what's wrong with the build-deps?
[15:34] <jdong> \sh: and you forgot Poland??? ;-)
[15:35] <\sh> jdong: on i386 libxi-dev and libxinerama-dev are missing for .so files of the libs
[15:35] <jdong> ah
[15:35] <\sh> jdong: no...I didn't...we just copied it incorrectly from the browser...so UTF-8 broke badly ;)
[15:35] <jdong> haha, nice :)
[15:36] <\sh> jdong: the missing build-deps are changes between gutsy and hardy somehow..
[15:36] <\sh> it only occured on hardy it seems, and only after a xorg upload...strange
[15:36] <jdong> \sh: very odd... probably some x11 dep coincidentally pulled in the deps which no longer happens
[15:37] <jdong> \sh: I've seen the same with GNOME app backports the other way around -- something on Hardy coincidentally pulls in a dep that doesn't get pulled in on Gutsy
[15:37] <\sh> jdong: something which can be fixed easily ;)
[15:38] <jdong> indeed
[15:38] <\sh> todo list updated :(
[15:41] <RainCT> hefe_bia: yes, subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
[15:42] <RainCT> hefe_bia: but note that unified diff's are preferred
[15:43] <RainCT> hefe_bia: actually, is that a debdiff?
[15:43] <hefe_bia> Generated with debdiff pkg_oldrev.dsc pkg_newrev.dsc
[15:44] <RainCT> hefe_bia: do you have patchutils installed?
[15:44] <hefe_bia> RainCT: yes
[15:48] <hefe_bia> RainCT: I have checked that it applies cleanly as described in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing "Debdiff patches are best tested with ..."
[15:51] <RainCT> hefe_bia: well, shouldn't be a problem :)
[15:57] <hefe_bia> RainCT: done, thanks. :)
[16:01] <\emgent> heya
[16:15] <RainCT> hefe_bia: thank *you* :)
[16:35] <\sh> siretart: did you see the new announcement of HP with 8 socket for amd quad cores? :)
[16:56] <bddebian> Heya gang
[17:01] <Iulian> Hi bddebian
[17:01] <bddebian> Hello Iulian
[18:35] <bobbo> Does anyone know why i get this error, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5814/plain/, when i try to build jedit?
[18:46] <tball> Hello. Anybody good at packing debs here? I heart a rumor I just look here :P
[18:46] <tball> I know how to packaging, but got a weird problem
[18:46] <tball> in this case
[18:49] <tball> Wenn packaging I get a lot of: "Compatibility levels before 4 are deprecated." in the end. And my deb file is only 17 kb big :S?
[18:52] <james_w> tball: the first thing shouldn't cause you any trouble, but just check the number in debian/compat, and then read the debhelper manpage on compatibility levels.
[18:52] <james_w> bobbo: you need to define one of those values, debian/rules should tell you a sensible value
[18:52] <bobbo> james_w; managed to work it out, thanks :)
[18:53] <tball> james_w: Thx Ill try it out
[18:53] <tball> Another question. I try to compile kiba-docks. But it cause me alot of trouble. Just if any of you tried it before me and knew if there was any trouble.
[19:04] <tball> james_w: It worked. Just had to change the compatibility layer to V5b :) Thx
[19:19] <dneary> Hi
[19:19] <dneary> I've got a .dsc, .diff.gz and _orig.tgz from a Hardy package that I'd like to build on Gusty
[19:19] <dneary> Anyone mind running me through generating a .deb from the package files?
[19:20] <dneary> I'm not exactly starting from scratch, and I've been having lots of trouble going in circles in the packaging guide
[19:23] <tball> dneary: Let me try help you out
[19:24] <blueyed> bobbo: let me handle the jedit package, please. I want to include the new bugfix upstream release..
[19:25] <bobbo> blueyed; ah no problem, ive already got a debdiff to fix the build-deps if you want it?
[19:25] <blueyed> bobbo: thanks, but looks like a simple search and replace.
[19:26] <bobbo> blueyed; ok
[19:29] <Amaranth> dneary: dpkg-source -x foo.dsc then go into the directory created and run debuild binary
[19:29] <Amaranth> guessing you just want a quick deb for yourself
[19:32] <dneary> Thanks Amaranth
[19:32] <dneary> Sorry - was reading a bed-time story
[19:33] <dneary> I also thought maybe ubuntu-devel was a more appropriate channel, & asked there
[19:53] <bobbo> If you need a debdiff reviewed for part of a mass bug (like bug #203636) do you subscribe u-u-s or just advertise it in here?
[19:53] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 203636 in jedit "replace icedtea-java7 references with openjdk-6 references" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/203636
[19:55] <cody-somerville> bobbo, probably want to subscribe u-u-s
[19:55] <bobbo> thanks
[20:10] <RainCT> OT, is there someting like xkill but which will just give me the pid?
[20:17] <jpatrick> RainCT: ps ax | grep "program" ?
[20:20] <bmk789> can anyone help be with patching/packaging acidrip for bug 182999?
[20:20] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 182999 in acidrip "AcidRip Fails to properly work with x264 (includes patch)." [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/182999
[20:20] <blueyed> RainCT: pgrep?
[20:20] <RainCT> jpatrick: can't find it with that
[20:21] <bmk789> ive downloaded the source, put the patches in debian/patches but im lost as to where to go from here
[20:26] <blueyed> bmk789: try "dpkg-buildpackage -uc -us" in the source directory. You maybe need to enable the patches, too, before.
[20:26] <blueyed> bmk789: try "what-patch" (from the ubuntu-dev-tools package), to see which patch system gets used.
[20:27] <bmk789> thank you, running it now
[20:28] <nxvl> easier than that
[20:28] <bmk789> what-patch gave dpatch, but the patches i have were just .patch, do i need to convert or something?
[20:28] <nxvl> bmk789: look on the debian/rules if you are using cdbs patch system, dpatch or quilt (search for those names on debian/rules)
[20:29] <bmk789> its dpatch
[20:29] <nxvl> bmk789: with dpatch making the patchs is easier
[20:29] <nxvl> let me find the wiki page
[20:29] <nxvl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems#head-5f4642a5564760bd8aae0fd2cbd70e6cd78c1260
[20:29] <bmk789> how do i take the .patch files i have and make them work with dpatch?
[20:30] <nxvl> bmk789: take a look at the link i have just gave you
[20:31] <bmk789> ok
[20:33] <albert23> RainCT: xprop | grep PID ?
[20:35] <RAOF> Hobbsee: I know you'll not be here yet, but "this looks broken" presumably refers to one-or-more FFe bugs?"
[20:36] <RainCT> albert23: that's what I was searching, thanks :)
[20:37]  * RainCT thanks to jpatrick and blueyed, too ;)
[20:38] <pete_> Hey hey peeps
[20:38] <cbx33> long time
[20:38] <cbx33> is hardy .... stable enough to upgrade to now?
[20:38] <gary4gar> no
[20:39] <cbx33> that's a shame...hoping to test drive it a little
[20:39] <cbx33> I normally upgrade a few days before release
[20:39] <gary4gar> its still in BETA stage
[20:39] <cbx33> yeh of course
[20:39] <gary4gar> then you know must what beta means
[20:40] <ajmitch> hello cbx33 :)
[20:40] <cbx33> hey ajmitch howz it going
[20:40] <cbx33> long time eh?
[20:40] <RAOF> cbx33: Howdie!
[20:40] <cbx33> hey hey RAOF
[20:40] <ajmitch> good, busy, yes, long time :)
[20:40] <cbx33> been busy too
[20:40] <cbx33> too busy
[20:40] <cbx33> ;)
[20:40] <RAOF> Return of the long-lime-aways.
[20:41] <cbx33> indeed
[20:41]  * ajmitch is not returned, just visiting 'temporarily'
[20:41] <cbx33> heheh
[20:41] <RAOF> cbx33: It's probably reasonably safe for you to upgrade.  We've had our mandatory break-the-world libc update now :)
[20:41] <cbx33> me neither...not got the time at the moment
[20:41] <cbx33> RAOF hhehehah
[20:42] <cbx33> yeh I'm just updating all packages
[20:42] <cbx33> then maybe I'll go for it
[20:42] <cbx33> hope it doesn't break things
[20:42] <cbx33> :p
[20:42] <cbx33> I'm wondering if my laptop is too, specialised
[20:42]  * ajmitch may upgrade to gutsy one day
[20:42] <cbx33> hahaha
[20:42] <cbx33> i wonder if it'll make my machine slower or faster
[20:42] <ajmitch> my desktop is still lagging behind on a few packages, and isn't even at final gutsy
[20:43] <cbx33> I'm on gutsy now
[20:43] <ajmitch> my laptop is, and I'll probably upgrade that to hardy soonish
[20:44] <cbx33> trouble my laptop is a mite slow
[20:44] <cbx33> it's a 1Ghz chip
[20:44] <cbx33> but only 256Mb RAM
[20:44] <cbx33> and I think that's what's killing it
[20:44] <cbx33> but then I've slimmed down a lot and I'm running openbox
[20:44] <cbx33> but it's still dog slow
[20:45] <bmk789> i still dont understand how to use these .patch files into the dpatch system
[20:45] <cbx33> I think ti's HDD access that's my real issue
[20:45] <bmk789> i tried running dpkg-buildpackage -uc -us and it gives errors on the new patches
[20:45] <cbx33> but there seems no way to speed that up
[20:47] <bmk789> nxvl, blueyed, any ideas?
[20:47] <blueyed> bmk789: what errors?
[20:48] <cbx33> anyone know a way to speed up hdd access?
[20:48] <cbx33> i don't think I can just hoping
[20:48] <blueyed> bmk789: with dpatch you basically can do "dpatch-edit-patch", the edit/patch the files directly, and exit the subshell, which creates a patch for you. very handy.
[20:48] <cbx33> it is a very nice system
[20:48] <bmk789> heres the error: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/60082/
[20:49] <cbx33> anyone know if someone has written a wrapper for "cd" that enables you to cd into tar files
[20:49] <cbx33> now that'd be cool
[20:49] <kozz> I would need someone to upload (sponsor) a bugfix for me in sane-backends-extras
[20:49] <bmk789> should i apply the .patch  then create a dpatch from the old and the result from the .patch
[20:49] <kozz> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sane-backends-extras/+bug/180169
[20:49] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 180169 in sane-backends-extras "[hardy] /dev missing some entries, others have wrong permissions" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[20:50] <kozz> there is a debdiff in the bugtracker
[20:50] <ajmitch> cbx33: sounds like something that should be done with fuse
[20:50] <blueyed> bmk789: with a clean source (patch unapplied), do "dpatch-edit-patch good-name", then edit any files (or apply the patch manually), then "exit"/ctrl-d and dpatch has created the patch for you.
[20:51] <blueyed> bmk789: you can later edit the patch again.. you should move the patches out of debian/patches before/deactivate them, if they are failing (or you want to just make them), of course
[20:52] <bmk789> so with clean source, i can run dpatch-edit-patch and paste in the .patch i have. and it will format it correctly?
[20:52] <RainCT> kozz: upload it to a bug report and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
[20:53] <RainCT> bmk789: not paste, but apply it (dpatch-edit-patch will drop you into a shell)
[20:53] <kozz> RainCT: it is uploaded, but will add ubuntu-universe-sponsors
[20:53] <blueyed> bmk789: not paste, but apply it: it creates a subshell and on exit creates a patch for you. You can also just edit any files with a text editor (but don't paste the patch into the shell.. ;)
[20:54] <cbx33> ajmitch: yeh that's what I thought
[20:54] <cbx33> sounds cool though
[20:54] <RainCT> bmk789: dpatch-edit-patch will create a copy of the source, apply the patches listed in debian/patches/00list to it, drop you into a shell to do whatever you want, and then if you exit with code 0 (just type "exit 0") it will compare the files to the original ones and generate a patch
[20:54] <cbx33> ;)
[20:54] <bmk789> i see
[20:57] <kozz> RainCT: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sane-backends-extras/+bug/180169 - looks good?
[20:57] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 180169 in sane-backends-extras "[hardy] /dev missing some entries, others have wrong permissions" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[21:01] <bmk789> ok, i got the dpatch made correctly i think, but i got a new error when running "dpkg-buildpackage -uc -us"    http://paste.ubuntu.com/5825/
[21:04] <bmk789> should i have made a copy of acidrip.pm first?  i thought patch created a .orig
[21:04] <jdong> oh god, oh god....
[21:04] <jdong> I left a .bzr in azureus's orig.tar.gz
[21:04] <jdong> crap. Do I fix it now with a repack, or do I pretend it doesn't exist?
[21:08] <jdong> whew false alarm
[21:10] <cbx33> hehehe
[21:10] <cbx33> jdong: I hate it when that happens
[21:11] <jdong> cbx33: I only made the mistake in the 0ubuntu3 release, a jealous use of cp -av introduced a small .bzr (light checkout) into the diff.gz
[21:11] <jdong> cbx33: fortunately the orig isn't afffected, so it's very simple to fix
[21:11] <jdong> and hopefully nobody saw it :D
[21:12] <jdong> I also believe that Azureus was my first ever upload.... so there goes my track record :)
[21:12] <ajmitch> jdong: of never breaking a thing?
[21:12] <jdong> ajmitch: more like of never making a stupid upload.... I think my breakage record is untoppable if we extend back 3 years or so :)
[21:13] <cbx33> heheh
[21:20] <bmk789> RainCT, blueyed: i got "dpkg-buildpackage -uc -us" to complete successfully, what files should that have created?
[21:20] <blueyed> bmk789: just do "ls -lt .. | head" to see them, e.g. *.deb
[21:22] <bmk789> i was supposed to edit something else in debian/ wasnt i?
[21:22] <bmk789> there is one .deb there but its the exact same version as all the other files
[21:24] <bmk789> blueyed: isnt there a tool for updating the changelog?
[21:25] <blueyed> bmk789: "dch -e", for editing
[21:25] <bmk789> so i use that for the changelog then rerun "dpkg-buildpackage -uc -us"?
[21:25] <blueyed> bmk789: use "dch -i", to increase the version..
[21:26] <blueyed> yes. it pulls the version from the changelog.
[21:32] <bmk789> finished the changelog
[21:33] <bmk789> now when i try to rebuild i get this http://paste.ubuntu.com/5829/
[21:35] <nxvl> bmk789: why did you have an empty file "1"?
[21:35] <bmk789> i do?
[21:36] <bmk789> hm
[21:36] <bmk789> o well, fixed that
[21:36] <bmk789> idk how that file got there
[21:37] <bmk789> but what is the "unrepresentable changes to source"
[21:37] <asac> jdong: is b4 backport done already?
[21:44] <jdong> asac: it's posted on the sponsor queue, ScottK says he will do it tonight, unless you feel like pushing it now
[21:44] <bmk789> blueyed, nxvl: any ideas what this means? http://paste.ubuntu.com/5830/
[21:44] <jdong> asac: see https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/gutsy-backports/+bug/191796/comments/25
[21:44] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 191796 in gutsy-backports "Please backport firefox-3.0 3.0~b4 final" [Undecided,Triaged]
[21:45] <RainCT> bmk789: PNG files are binary; they can't be represented as text
[21:46] <RainCT> bmk789: if you want to add a binary file to the .diff.gz you have to uuencode it
[21:46] <bmk789> how do i do that?
[21:48] <RainCT> I'll add a page to the wiki explaining it :)
[21:48] <bmk789> great, thanks!
[21:49] <bmk789> RainCT, blueyed, nxvl: sorry for all the n00bish questions, just hoping i can figure out packaging so i can get some more packages fixed for hardy
[21:51] <RainCT> bmk789: heh, no problem, we all have to learn :)
[21:54] <bobbo> When does Univrse get un-freezed (so updates can be built)?
[21:54]  * bobbo just realises it doesnt work that way and goes to read more Wiki
[21:55] <blueyed> bobbo: new packages have to be approved manually until beta release
[21:55] <blueyed> bobbo: freemind just has been accepted.
[21:56] <bobbo> blueyed, heh thanks :)
[21:59] <asac> jdong: how long do you want to let it bake in your PPA before upload?
[21:59] <asac> jdong: i think the changes are similar to the ones required for beta3, so it should still be ok imo
[21:59] <jdong> asac: I think it's cooked already
[21:59] <jdong> asac: I'd be happy with uploading those two dsc's I posted on the bug report
[22:01] <asac> jdong: ok. just asked someone who asked for backports to test your ppa... lets see
[22:01] <jdong> asac: cool. I've had about 3 people report back on the bug report postively on those PPA packages
[22:02] <asac> jdong: yes, maybe lets wait a few more minutes if the guy replies :)
[22:02] <jdong> :)
[22:23] <nxvl> is there any documentation on how to make multiple binary packages?
[22:23] <crimsun> quite some, yes.
[22:24] <nxvl> crimsun: can you point me to one of them?
[22:24] <LaserJock> nxvl: I thought there was something in the packaging guide about that but I'm not positive
[22:25] <LaserJock> I can't remember what all is in there anymore
[22:25] <crimsun> nxvl: more detail would be useful
[22:26] <crimsun> e.g., cdbs?  quilt?  ...
[22:26] <nxvl> crimsun: for example apache, is 1 source and multiple binaries
[22:29] <crimsun> nxvl: do you want a template, or..?
[22:29] <crimsun> IIRC, mruiz has a nice briefer on multiple packages
[22:30] <crimsun> (and of course, the Debian wiki.  http://wiki.debian.org/Making_Multiple_Packages_From_A_Single_Source_Tarball )
[22:31]  * LaserJock screams!
[22:34] <ajmitch> LaserJock: issues? :)
[22:34] <LaserJock> a few
[22:35] <LaserJock> been trying for weeks to get a resolution on squeak licensing
[22:35] <LaserJock> the guy that maintains the "official" unofficial debian repo says that it's GPL/Squeak license
[22:36] <LaserJock> but it's not clear because there are *3* different files with licenses in them
[22:36] <ajmitch> oh well, just get it removed from ubuntu :)
[22:36] <LaserJock> well, I'm supposed to "fix it" :-)
[22:36] <ajmitch> but if you really can't...
[22:36] <LaserJock> then I email the author and he says "oh, it's been MIT for years, there's no GPL"
[22:37] <LaserJock> and now a new package has shown up in Debian
[22:37] <ajmitch> then if you're bored, go tackle the huge pile of possible rc bugs :)
[22:37] <LaserJock> and it looks nice at first
[22:38] <LaserJock> but I see it's .dfsg. but there's no info on what was removed
[22:38] <LaserJock> and so now I have like 2 different upstreams with 3 different licenses floating around
[22:38] <LaserJock> and I'm supposed to get this in Hardy :/
[22:39] <LaserJock> I so love good upstreams
[22:39] <LaserJock> that's what this is teaching me :-0
[22:39] <civija> what does 'dfsg' mean in package names?
[22:39] <LaserJock> it's for Debian Free Software Guidlines
[22:40] <civija> aha, tnx :)
[22:40] <LaserJock> it's the rules Debian uses to figure out if software is Free or not
[22:40] <LaserJock> so when it's put in the package name it means that they packager did something to the upstream files to make it comply with the DFSG
[22:42] <civija> cool, tnx for clarify
[23:03] <james_w> geser: you rock! thanks.
[23:12] <geser> james_w: no problem
[23:33] <blueyed> slangasek: can you please sponsor acpi-support once more, please? There's a severe regression on Fujitsu notebooks (bug 203369)
[23:33] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 203369 in acpi-support "FUJITSU SIEMENS.config Ubuntu 8.40 Beta 6" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/203369
[23:36] <chadmiller> Hi.  I haven't made a new .deb in /years/.  What's the recommended tool these days to boostrap making a new package?  I mean, initialization with example debian/* files and such.
[23:36] <keescook> blueyed: what's the other stuff in the debdiff?  conffile stuff?
[23:36] <james_w> chadmiller: dh-make
[23:36] <chadmiller> Still?!  Wow.
[23:36] <chadmiller> Thanks.
[23:36] <blueyed> keescook: yes, removes the conffiles obsoleted by 0.106.. it has been reported in a bug comment, so no real bug reference.
[23:39] <keescook> blueyed: ah, gotcha, reading changelog now
[23:40] <LaserJock> stink, what
[23:41] <LaserJock> what's the point of having patches if you just make 1, 119719 line one
[23:42] <keescook> blueyed: I've uploaded it -- thanks for getting it fixed.  :)
[23:42] <blueyed> keescook: thanks! :) I guess it was a typo from me.. :/
[23:43] <keescook> slangasek: acpi-support regression fix waiting in the queue for you, if you want it.  :)
[23:43] <keescook> blueyed: eh, still, good to get it fixed.  :)
[23:43] <blueyed> sure :)