[02:19] <LaserJock> hi dtrask
[02:20] <dtrask> dude!
[02:20] <dtrask> How's life in NV?
[02:21] <LaserJock> going ok
[03:49] <cesar_bo> Hi, How can I set a printer from the client side
[03:50] <cesar_bo> anyone can help me with this?
[03:50] <johnny> hmm.. they seem to just work for me so far..
[03:50] <johnny> or do you mean a printer connected to the client itself?
[03:50] <johnny> i just have it connected to my server
[03:51] <cesar_bo> to the client itself
[03:51] <johnny> usb printer?
[03:51] <cesar_bo> lp0 a matrix dot printer
[03:51] <johnny> ugh
[03:51] <johnny> i don't even remember how to configure that old stuff
[03:51] <cesar_bo> yea I know :(
[03:51] <johnny> where do you live?
[03:52] <cesar_bo> but, I read tht ltps.org but it seem that doc there doesn't work well
[03:52] <cesar_bo> Bolivia :D
[03:52] <johnny> aha
[03:52] <johnny> so printers are not always easily available?
[03:53] <cesar_bo> well ... Isn't like wer are on the third world ... but this are the the less expensive for the schools
[03:53] <johnny> hmm.. just figured you might be able to get newer ones donated
[03:54] <johnny> people are always upgrading printers around here
[03:54] <cesar_bo> for now, would be great get this to work
[03:54] <cesar_bo> I read the ltsp.org docs, and endeed there is a method, using the /etc/lts.conf file
[03:54] <johnny> hmm
[03:55] <johnny> i think ltsp.org docs are outdated
[03:55] <johnny> the edubuntu handbook is better
[03:55] <johnny> ltsp docs are for ltsp4?
[03:55] <johnny> you're prolly using ltsp5
[03:55] <cesar_bo> yea could be
[03:55] <johnny> check the file on your computer called lts-parameters.txt
[03:55] <johnny> use locate to find it.. i forget the path
[03:55] <cesar_bo> but isn't working ... and on the cookbook the printer section is empty :/
[03:55]  * johnny isn't in ubuntu atm
[03:56] <johnny> it has the comprehensive list of parameters that work
[03:56] <cesar_bo> hooo this file ! I don't have it
[03:56] <johnny> try just lts-parameters
[03:56] <cesar_bo> I use the ltsp-standalone server
[03:56] <johnny> yes
[03:56] <johnny> it should be there
[03:56] <johnny> ubuntu runs updatedb by default i think
[03:57] <johnny> try updatedb && locate lts-parameters
[03:57] <cesar_bo> let me see again
[03:57] <cesar_bo> let me get clear one thing
[03:57] <cesar_bo> I get the ltsp work with out installing the ltsp-client package, just with the ltsp-standalone package
[03:58] <cesar_bo> If I try to install the ltsp-client I get dependencie errors
[03:58] <cesar_bo> so, the file you told me is endeed on the ltps-client package
[03:59] <cesar_bo> I am quite confuse.... :P jejeje but the standalone server looks to not listen the lts.conf file
[06:27] <LaserJock> ogra_cmpc: squeak is just evil
[06:27] <LaserJock> ogra_cmpc: I got emails back from Lex Spoon and the author of the squeak VM about licensing
[06:27] <LaserJock> and I also had a look at the squeak-vm package in Debian
[06:27] <ogra_cmpc> and ?
[06:28] <ogra_cmpc> no way ?
[06:28] <LaserJock> well, the squeak Vm author claims it's been MIT for years
[06:28] <LaserJock> but that's totally not what it says for the current stable version
[06:28] <LaserJock> the Debian package is actually a svn snapshot and *is* MIT
[06:29] <LaserJock> the licensing of the Debian package is awesome, he really did a good job with the debian/copyright
[06:29]  * kgoetz thought debian didnt have one at all - i just learned something *heh*
[06:29] <ogra_cmpc> LaserJock, well, then it shouldnt be a prob to pull it in
[06:30] <ogra_cmpc> the other question is ... does it work ?
[06:30] <LaserJock> *but*, the debian maintainer is the guy that did the Linex stuff and so there is well over 1MB worth of patches
[06:30] <LaserJock> and yeah, I just installed it and it really doesn't work
[06:30] <ogra_cmpc> doesn't ... hrm
[06:30] <LaserJock> it has a .desktop, but it just calls the CLI squeak
[06:31] <ogra_cmpc> bah
[06:31] <LaserJock> the browser plugin doesn't work
[06:31] <ogra_cmpc> bad debian habit
[06:31] <LaserJock> and it's really hard to pull out what all is going on
[06:31] <ogra_cmpc> is it worse or better than what we have now ?
[06:31] <LaserJock> because like the .desktop and icons are in a 96K linex .dpatch
[06:32] <LaserJock> it's got a 780K configure.dpatch
[06:32] <ogra_cmpc> sigh
[06:32] <LaserJock> that does who knows what
[06:33] <ogra_cmpc> i'd say we concentrate on either making pitti happy with your current package or we keep what we have in the archive
[06:33] <LaserJock> so I looked at maybe taking the .orig.tar.gz (which is dfsg but the maintainer doesn't say what he removed :/ )
[06:33] <ogra_cmpc> at least that worked *somehow8
[06:33] <LaserJock> and using it with the other packaging
[06:34] <LaserJock> but the package from Lex and Matej just has a single 3.9M diff in debian/patches
[06:35] <LaserJock> I can't believe the upstream thought it was ridiculous to say the vm was GPL/Squeak licensed
[06:35] <LaserJock> it's *his* silly COPYING/COPYRIGHT/LICENSE mess that pitti had a problem with
[06:35] <nixternal> holy smokes, it is ogra_cmpc
[06:36] <ogra_cmpc> heh
[06:36] <nixternal> ogra_cmpc: the chapter has been edited until it has bled, and now I will be the chapter master forever more
[06:36] <ogra_cmpc> nixternal, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/ltsp-install-ubuntu.png
[06:36] <nixternal> which means, come the next release, it is getting an Extreme Chapter Makeover
[06:36] <ogra_cmpc> something for the next chapter :)
[06:37] <nixternal> for Intrepid or Hardy?
[06:37] <ogra_cmpc> hardy
[06:37] <ogra_cmpc> (i think we talked about that when you had to manually preseed it and there was no gui option some weeks ago)
[06:37] <nixternal> I have driven around to every bookstore in the area, and none of them has the book
[06:38] <nixternal> OK, so it looks like I am going to have to update the screenshots then
[06:38] <LaserJock> really? my Barnes and Noble had it last I looked
[06:38] <nixternal> Barnes and Noble, Borders, Frys, University Book Store...all of them are out
[06:38] <jsgotangco> hey guys
[06:39] <LaserJock> geeze, it's like a blast from the past in here
[06:39] <nixternal> whoa, and it is jerome
[06:39] <nixternal> no doubt, Edubuntu is going old school tonight
[06:39] <LaserJock> ogra_cmpc: well, are you insanely busy right now?
[06:39] <johnny> beep
[06:39] <nixternal> LaserJock: do you have the book (2nd ed.)?
[06:39] <johnny> i'm n00b.. so not that old school
[06:39] <kgoetz> heh
[06:40] <ogra_cmpc> LaserJock, sadly, yes
[06:40] <LaserJock> nixternal: of the "Official" book?
[06:40] <nixternal> yes
[06:40] <johnny> hey ogra...
[06:40] <nixternal> I gave mine away
[06:40] <LaserJock> no, I don't even have the 1st
[06:40] <johnny> fun times tonight..
[06:40] <nixternal> I have the 1st, nobody wanted it though :)
[06:40] <nixternal> ogra_cmpc: do you have a copy of the book (2nd ed.)?
[06:41] <ogra_cmpc> LaserJock, UTC 7:00 is my wednesday nemesis
[06:41] <nixternal> I have to finish up the chapter edits tomorrow, rearranging the entire LTSP section
[06:41] <LaserJock> ogra_cmpc: alright. Well, I'm really strapped for time, but I'll really try to get something to pitti ASAP
[06:41] <ogra_cmpc> nixternal, i think i have one of the first edition somewhere in a box ...
[06:41] <LaserJock> and then I wash my hands of squeak
[06:41] <nixternal> hehe, I have that, but there isn't an edubuntu chapter in it
[06:41] <LaserJock> I don't want anything to do with it again
[06:42] <ogra_cmpc> LaserJock, well, thne blindly syncing from debian would be best
[06:42] <LaserJock> that's what I'm afraid of :/
[06:42] <ogra_cmpc> i guess they will have sane and working packages for the lenny release, so all we need atm is something to skip that time gap
[06:42] <LaserJock> I can see if I can fix it up a tad first
[06:42] <LaserJock> but it should go through pitti no problem
[06:43] <LaserJock> the debian/copyright is beautiful
[06:43] <LaserJock> it's also much newer
[06:43] <LaserJock> the VM in the other packages is from 2006
[06:43] <LaserJock> the one in Debian is from like 2 weeks ago or something
[06:43] <nixternal> g'nite all!
[06:44] <kgoetz> later mate
[06:45] <LaserJock> time for bed here too
[06:45] <LaserJock> cya Edupeople
[09:46] <hivo-cmpc> ogra_cmpc: i think it was a very good idea using abiword and gnumeric instead of OOo
[09:47] <ogra_cmpc> yeah
[09:47] <ogra_cmpc> there is a bug ion fstab you might want to fix to not run out of ram
[09:47] <ogra_cmpc> remove the line for /tmp
[09:47] <ogra_cmpc> and reboot
[09:48] <hivo-cmpc> ok
[09:49] <ogra_cmpc> i found that when i tried to watch a 30min youtube movie yesterday night
[09:49] <ogra_cmpc> which actually works fine if you dont fill your ram with /tmp :)
[09:50] <stgraber> ogra_cmpc: Did you try italc on the classmates ?
[09:50] <highvoltage> heh
[09:51] <hivo-cmpc> kde apps still start slow, but I think that is to be expected.
[09:51] <hivo-cmpc> only so much you can do on this footprint
[09:51] <ogra_cmpc> hivo-cmpc, only the first time you start one
[09:51] <hivo-cmpc> true
[09:51] <ogra_cmpc> its the shoddy sound daemon that takes so long
[09:52] <ogra_cmpc> hmm
[09:52] <ogra_cmpc> no meeting on the schedule today
[09:52] <hivo-cmpc> oh really? wow. so that means there's a possibility of speeding it up in the future.
[09:52] <ogra_cmpc> not as long as kde uses arts
[09:52] <ogra_cmpc> so not in hardy
[09:52] <hivo-cmpc> kde4 uses something else, don't they?
[09:53] <ogra_cmpc> for intrepid i have some ideas ...
[09:53] <ogra_cmpc> like adding compcache to the kernel
[09:53] <hivo-cmpc> are UI changes out of the question?
[09:53] <ogra_cmpc> that will add a third of ram
[09:53] <hivo-cmpc> what does compcache do?
[09:53] <hivo-cmpc> oh wow
[09:54] <ogra_cmpc> i'm planning to start a subnotebook desktop team with bryce in intrepid
[09:54] <ogra_cmpc> we'll try to adjust apps
[09:54] <ogra_cmpc> for hardy the screen switcher in the panel needs to be enough
[09:54] <hivo-cmpc> I think it could be worth while combining the panels. the top panel has unused space, and the bottom pannel is mostly used for the application list. I thought that they mihgt be better combined on this small screen
[09:54] <ogra_cmpc> i'm dropping all apps that dont work on 800x600 atm
[09:55] <hivo-cmpc> ah, good idea
[09:55] <ogra_cmpc> but that are not many
[09:55] <ogra_cmpc> they usually work at 600px height
[09:55] <hivo-cmpc> ogra_cmpc: I love subnotebooks, I want to get the Eee with the larger display when it's available here.
[09:55] <ogra_cmpc> pfft
[09:55] <ogra_cmpc> get a classmate 2.0 :0
[09:55] <ogra_cmpc> :)
[09:55] <hivo-cmpc> :)
[09:56] <hivo-cmpc> what's the specs on 2.0? or isn't the specs available yet?
[09:56] <ogra_cmpc> it will have 9" and the flash attached to the ide bus
[09:56] <hivo-cmpc> I saw some intel-looking laptops on engadget the other day that looked a lot like a scaled up classmate pc. wondered about that.
[09:56] <ogra_cmpc> there is nothing public yet i think
[09:57] <hivo-cmpc> ah ok
[09:57] <hivo-cmpc> I've shown the cmpc to people at my7 lug and at work. everyone just wants one :)
[09:58] <hivo-cmpc> just want to know where the can buy them.
[09:59] <laga> oh no
[09:59] <hivo-cmpc> ogra_cmpc: I bought an extra 1GB flash disk, I'm going to purposely trash it, find out how mean write cycles these things have these days. there doesn't seem to be lots of reliable information available on it
[09:59] <laga> are you guys flocking? ;)
[10:00] <hivo-cmpc> laga: I prefer firefox to flock myself :)
[10:00] <Kamping_Kaiser> laga, i was thinking breeding perhaps
[10:00] <hivo-cmpc> laga: what are you refering to?
[10:00] <Kamping_Kaiser> -cmpc
[10:00] <ogra_cmpc> hivo-cmpc, -cmpc
[10:00] <highvoltage> the bigger versions of us are still here :)
[10:00]  * highvoltage points at ogra__ 
[10:01] <ogra_cmpc> yeah
[10:01] <ogra_cmpc> he's sititng upstairs ... slacking again
[10:01]  * Kamping_Kaiser wishes there was full sized low power laptops
[10:03] <hivo-cmpc> ogra_cmpc: does the full-scale edubuntu use the same desktop wallpaper?
[10:04] <ogra_cmpc> not exactly
[10:04] <ogra_cmpc> but the same look
[10:04] <ogra_cmpc> (the original wallpaper has the logo centered ... that looked strange on teh cmpc)
[10:05] <hivo-cmpc> ah ok. I quite like it. very peaceful.
[10:05] <hivo-cmpc> then again, I like dark bg's
[10:05] <ogra_cmpc> i'm pondering to do the same for the big screens as well
[10:05] <ogra_cmpc> but i havent had any feedback at all on hardy edubuntu yet
[10:05] <hivo-cmpc> ogra_cmpc: I think it looks great thee in the bottom corner
[10:05] <ogra_cmpc> yeah
[10:06] <hivo-cmpc> ogra_cmpc: I can have a window open and still see the edubuntu logo :)
[10:06] <ogra_cmpc> :)
[10:06] <ogra_cmpc> hmm
[10:06] <ogra_cmpc> someone should tell rich that the cmpc has 4h of battery life
[10:06] <ogra_cmpc> seems there are power outages in his area today and his HP desiced to only run 20min on one charge
[10:07] <hivo-cmpc> it is actually quite impressive. I ost my charger for a while and hardly even noticed :)
[10:07] <ogra_cmpc> *decided
[10:07] <hivo-cmpc> ouch. HP's seem to loose their capacity quickly after a year or so
[10:07] <ogra_cmpc> (i wish i could get him to do some testing)
[10:08] <ogra_cmpc> my HP2000 lappie only survives 40min ... it started off with 3h once
[10:08] <ogra_cmpc> but then i bought it pre edgy
[10:08] <ogra_cmpc> and i'm a heavy users
[10:08] <ogra_cmpc> *user
[10:09] <hivo-cmpc> yes, you also travel a lot, so you probably have a lot of charge/discharge cycles
[10:17] <ogra_cmpc> yeah
[10:19] <hivo-cmpc> ogra_cmpc: oh no, tuxpaint doesn't fit in the screen, does that mean you'll drop it?
[10:20] <ogra_cmpc> err
[10:20] <ogra_cmpc> is it on your image ?
[10:20] <hivo-cmpc> yep
[10:21] <ogra_cmpc> hmm
[10:21] <ogra_cmpc> ah, wait i dropped -type
[10:21] <ogra_cmpc> it should fit on the extended screen
[10:22] <hivo-cmpc> the hardware feedback thingy is also on here, not sure if that should be on this image, since it would only be used on cmpc's anyway, right?
[10:22] <ogra_cmpc> right, that just enetered the desktop last week
[10:22] <hivo-cmpc> ah ok
[10:22] <ogra_cmpc> its a new app
[10:22] <hivo-cmpc> yes, it kind of fits in on the extended screen
[10:23] <ogra_cmpc> it cuts off half the text at the bottom
[10:23] <ogra_cmpc> but thats bearable
[10:23] <hivo-cmpc> that used to be shipped by default in ubuntu previously though?
[10:23] <hivo-cmpc> yes I think people will be able to live with that.
[10:23] <ogra_cmpc> tuxpaint ?
[10:23] <ogra_cmpc> oh, you mean the HW tool
[10:23] <ogra_cmpc> no, thats new
[10:24] <ogra_cmpc> its the new generation of hwdb
[10:24] <hivo-cmpc> ah, it's very similar to hwdb though, or am I missing something?
[10:24] <ogra_cmpc> cr3 took my gui code
[10:24] <ogra_cmpc> but everything else is a new app
[10:25] <ogra_cmpc> gui code == glade file
[10:25] <hivo-cmpc> ok. :)
[10:26] <hivo-cmpc> oh wow, it ships liferea by default!
[10:26] <hivo-cmpc> is that an ubuntu default these days?
[10:28] <ogra_cmpc> edubuntu
[10:28] <ogra_cmpc> ah
[10:28] <ogra_cmpc> fixing the tuxpaint config makes it work fine
[10:28] <highvoltage> very nice. I like liferea. haven't really thought about using it in education... but I can imagine that it could have lots of value.
[10:29] <ogra_cmpc> setting windowsize to 800x480 and fullscreen to true in /etc/tuxpaint/tuxpaint.conf
[10:29] <highvoltage> I suspended the cmpc just now... but when I tried to wake it up, it shut down. I guess I shouldn't have hit the power button for wake-up again
[10:29] <ogra_cmpc> you shouldnt have suspended :)
[10:29] <ogra_cmpc> its not working yet
[10:30] <ogra_cmpc> \i'm still wainting for the kernel team
[10:30] <highvoltage> yeah, the suspend part seems fine, just the waking up that's the problem :)
[10:30] <ogra_cmpc> right
[10:30] <ogra_cmpc> there is no disk anymore after you wake up
[10:30] <highvoltage> aaaaah, yes.
[10:31] <ogra_cmpc> (btw rmmod button helps with the shutdown prob)
[10:31] <ogra_cmpc> if button is loaded it triggers an event to shut down if you press it ... right after it woke up
[10:31] <highvoltage> I guess something as simple as a sleep in the acpi scripts wouldn't fix the problem?
[10:31] <ogra_cmpc> no
[10:32] <ogra_cmpc> the kernel removes the USB host drivers
[10:32] <ogra_cmpc> with no way to prevent that
[10:32] <ogra_cmpc> so there is no disk anymore after you woke up
[10:32] <highvoltage> ah, and you cand modprobe them again because there's nowhere to modprobe them from?
[10:33] <ogra_cmpc> if you modprobe them they will create new devices
[10:33] <ogra_cmpc> the kernel needs the old device
[10:33] <ogra_cmpc> it cant handle if the sytate changed
[10:33] <highvoltage> ah, that's a pity. so suspend will have to wait for intrepid then?
[10:34] <highvoltage> at least the device doesn't get terribly hot. if a kid would walk around with it powered on, it wouldn't overheat. and at least there isn't a very sensitive mechanical disk either.
[10:34] <highvoltage> just power consumption as the problem.
[10:34] <highvoltage> ogra_cmpc: did the mandriva it used to ship have suspend working? how did they deal with it, if so?
[10:35] <highvoltage> (brb)
[10:36] <ogra_cmpc> they used a 2.4 kernel
[11:51] <highvoltage> ogra_cmpc_: any reason cmpc usb disk can't use GRUB?
[11:52] <ogra_cmpc_> it does
[11:52] <ogra_cmpc_> or didnt you boot ?
[11:53] <ogra_cmpc_> oh, you mean the installer ?
[11:53] <highvoltage> ogra_cmpc_: yep
[11:53] <ogra_cmpc_> grub cant be installed to loop devices without bad hacking
[11:53] <highvoltage> aah
[11:53] <ogra_cmpc_> so i had to resort to syslinux for the installed image
[11:53] <ogra_cmpc_> the installed system uses grub though
[11:54] <highvoltage> I installed grub to a usb disk last weekend, and it wasn't that bad, but I had to make a few minor tweaks by hand.
[11:54] <ogra_cmpc_> and i plan to fix grub in intrepid or at least add such functionallity
[11:54] <ogra_cmpc_> there is no USB disk
[11:54] <highvoltage> I mean, the external flash disk
[11:54] <ogra_cmpc_> its an image thats loop mounted on a build server
[11:55] <ogra_cmpc_> if you actually have a device its no prob
[11:55] <highvoltage> ah, I understand now.
[11:55] <highvoltage> sorry, I had bread for lunch, turns me into a zombie :)
[11:59] <stgraber> ogra_cmpc_: plug an external HDD on your server, then dd it to the image once the install process is done :)
[11:59] <ogra_cmpc_> stgraber, i wont run to london every night to plug in a HD to  a server in the datacenter ... thats nothing my salary covers (yet)
[11:59] <ogra_cmpc_> :)
[12:00] <ogra_cmpc_> syslinux is fine for now
[12:00] <ogra_cmpc_> its for the installer only anyway ...
[12:00] <ogra_cmpc_> soren has some really weird hacks to make his jeos images bootable with grub
[12:01] <ogra_cmpc_> i could have used that, but the code scared me
[12:01] <ogra_cmpc_> (he's assembling the stage2 of grub by dd'ing pieces of the different stage iages together)
[12:01] <ogra_cmpc_> *images
[12:01] <stgraber> scary
[12:01] <ogra_cmpc_> three bytes from here, five from there ...
[12:02] <ogra_cmpc_> well, he actually does the same thing grub does ... but in shell
[12:02] <stgraber> I don't like things that play with MBR anyway :)
[12:02] <ogra_cmpc_> well, its images ...
[12:02] <ogra_cmpc_> not as critical as real HDs
[12:04] <stgraber> well, if that was to be run in a VM, no problem but here you boot it on real HW (soren doesn't) so if you are lucky it reads the flash and eventually break it but couldn't it do the same to the HDD too ? :)
[13:37] <ogra_cmpc> stgraber, you have to dd the image to an external flash disk/usb key  ... indeed if the mbr of the image wouldnt work you could not boot from the device but the device wouldnt become unusable ... the installer thatthen runs does a normal grub install to the target device (internal classmate flash or another usb key)
[13:50]  * ogra_cmpc fiddles with https://wiki.edubuntu.org/HardyClassroomServer
[17:31] <nixternal> ogra: is the add-on CD working? as in, I can go ahead and make some screenshots of it in action?
[17:32] <ogra> there are two bugs in the menu ... Light desktop is still listed as well as teacher tools
[17:32] <nixternal> ok
[17:33] <ogra> both will have to vanish but my bugfix didnt work right
[17:33] <nixternal> I am trying to find the images used in the 2nd ed. book, nobody has the book though :)
[17:33] <ogra> beyond that it wont change
[17:33] <ogra> if you run into cbx33, he might have a copy of the original doc
[17:34] <highvoltage> ogra: http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/19/classmate-pc-hits-store-shelves-in-philippines-as-neo-explore-x1/
[17:34] <highvoltage> not sure if you've seen that yet :)
[17:34] <ogra> nope
[17:35] <ogra> 16,998 ?
[17:35] <ogra> they said it would be a hundret only !
[17:35] <ogra> :)
[17:36] <ogra> 16,998 Philippine pesos is about $408 US dollars
[17:36]  * ogra shakes head
[17:37] <ogra> ah, it comews with XP
[17:37] <ogra> that explains a bit of the price at least
[17:37] <highvoltage> ah, that must be where the R308 went to
[17:37] <highvoltage> $308, even
[17:38] <highvoltage> ogra: you should mail those guys and tell them they can sell it with edubuntu instead of an operating system that's going to be EOL'd one of these days.
[17:38] <ogra> i doubt MS will EOL it
[17:38] <ogra> vista adoption is to bad ...
[17:38] <ogra> they will surely extend
[17:39] <highvoltage> yes, I think they'll have to extend too, otherwise they'll lose even more users to OSX and Ubuntu.
[17:39] <highvoltage> (which they ultimately will :) )
[17:39] <ogra> anyway indeed :)
[17:40] <highvoltage> I installed Windows Vista today for the first time. I don't think it's /that/ incredibly bad. but it's nothing exciting. it's really just an updated Windows XP, but just much more resource intensive for no apparent reason.
[17:40] <highvoltage> I was thinking "wow! is this really the best a multibillion dollar corporation could come up in 6 years of development!?"
[17:41] <highvoltage> I think we've gotten so used to the fast paced development in the various linux distributions that we expect it in other systems too.
[17:41] <ogra> heh, well, apple manages that
[17:41] <highvoltage> in some ways, it's good that we're wrong about that, but I suppose competition is good too.
[17:42] <highvoltage> first OSX that I've used is Leopard, when I bought my mac mini a few weeks ago
[17:42] <highvoltage> I remember seeing OSX the first time a few years back, before compiz
[17:42] <highvoltage> I thought that the linux guys would /never/ caught up with those nice effect
[17:42] <highvoltage> now, I use the mac, and it feels *ancient*
[17:42] <highvoltage> the compiz fusion effects are just so much more nicer and abundant.
[17:43] <ogra> yeah
[17:43] <highvoltage> and people still complain that gnome is too simple. I got frustrated with OSX's extreme simplicity, and I'm a gnome user!
[17:43] <ogra> heh
[17:43] <highvoltage> (sorry, I'm slightly ranty tonight)
[17:48] <highvoltage> edubuntu is running quite nicely on the cmpc
[17:48] <highvoltage> couldn't find any real problems yet.
[17:48] <ogra> well
[17:48] <ogra> one of our OEM guys just tested
[17:49] <ogra> first thing he did was open youtube
[17:49] <ogra> since he wasnt able to get flash installed he considers it failed
[17:49] <highvoltage> ah, I haven't gotten to internetty things yet.
[17:50] <highvoltage> hmm, flash should be super-easy to install though? what went wrong?
[17:50] <ogra> well multiverese isnt enabled by default
[17:50] <ogra> ff now has a nifty hook into synaptic
[17:50] <ogra> but that doesnt enable multiverse properly
[17:50] <highvoltage> well, it had in gutsy already. or is this different now?
[17:51] <highvoltage> ah, I see.
[17:51] <ogra> oh, i just noticed my lang selector in the image has southafrican :)
[17:52] <highvoltage> flash is kind of important in education. I hate to say it, but most of the commercial educational tools require adobe flash. can't wait for the gnash guys to change that :)
[17:52] <highvoltage> ogra: heh, yes. I can tell you that /that/ works, at least :)
[17:53] <ogra> not my work (apart from the selection gui) :)
[17:53] <ogra> we have awesome translators
[17:54] <highvoltage> ogra: why is brasero on this image? is it a gnome dependency now?
[17:54] <highvoltage> ogra: or is it for people who plug in external optical drives?
[17:54] <highvoltage> doesn't really seem neccessary.
[17:57] <highvoltage> ogra: something else is also a bit weird. the Applications menu's icons look like Tango (or at least I think it's Tango) icons
[17:57] <highvoltage> ogra: but the rest (like Places and System) look like Gartoon (like it should be)
[17:57] <highvoltage> is this on purpose? or some strange bug?
[18:02] <highvoltage> hmm, pity synaptic doesn't know that it should enable multiverse. and it's a pity that firefox says that the plugin installed successfully, even though it fails.
[18:02] <highvoltage> I guess that's more work for asac then :)
[18:08] <nixternal> ogra: how much has the look to LTSP stuff changed since the last chapter edit? ie. single and dual nick setup, booting process, building the ltsp file system, dhcp boot, ldm login screen, windows dhcp reservations, multiboot system in action, setting fuse preferences, thin client manager
[18:08] <nixternal> changed visually that is
[18:11] <ogra> not at all
[18:11] <ogra> apart from the installer integration in ubuntu alternate
[18:12] <nixternal> awesome!
[18:12] <nixternal> dude, you just so saved my life
[18:12] <nixternal> ya, I am so excited I can't even talk right :)
[18:14] <ogra> the book was for gutsy, right ?
[18:15] <highvoltage> nixternal: cool :)
[18:15] <ogra> (the original one you refer to)
[18:16] <nixternal> ya
[18:16] <ogra> ok
[18:26] <highvoltage> g'night nixternal and ogra
[18:39] <mvo> highvolt1ge: hm, apturl has a mechnaism to tell it what component of the archive a package comes from
[18:40] <ogra> mvo, that hung heavily here
[18:41] <ogra> with multiverse in the default sources.list it seems to work though
[18:41] <nixternal> ogra: with the add-on CD, will Ubuntu/Kubuntu or whatever *buntu recognize it as an add-on and take off, or is there something funky you need to do?
[18:41] <stgraber> nixternal, ogra: hmm, we no longer have tcm as it was replaced by italc. Not sure how visual that's
[18:41] <nixternal> I am reinstalling Ubuntu in vbox to give the add-on cd a try
[18:41] <ogra> nixternal, all non ubuntu variants will need net access
[18:41] <nixternal> so only Ubuntu then
[18:42] <ogra> yeah
[18:42] <nixternal> Kubuntu, Gobuntu, and Xubuntu need to install edubuntu-desktop?
[18:42] <ogra> stgraber, that should go into the release notes
[18:42] <ogra> nixternal, same as ubuntu, but the dpes for doing a networkless install from the addon are computed against the ubuntu CD only
[18:43] <ogra> *deps
[18:43] <nixternal> ok
[18:43] <ogra> so all others need net access to pull the necessary libs
[18:43] <nixternal> correct, is edubuntu-desktop still the main meta pkg?
[18:43] <ogra> yes
[18:44] <nixternal> groovy
[18:44]  * nixternal thinks UED 8.10 should be KDE 4 with all of the new KDE Edu apps
[18:45] <nixternal> I have been playing around with the KDE 4 Edu apps on my trunk/ dev box for KDE 4
[18:45] <nixternal> good stuff
[18:45] <nixternal> I have made many pretty flowers with KTurtle :p
[21:03] <RichEd> ogra: you around ?
[21:03] <RichEd> ogra__:
[21:04] <ogra> RichEd, busy with beta
[21:06] <ogra> RichEd, the classmate has a 4h battery btw
[21:06] <RichEd> great
[21:06] <ogra> you could have survived a while on it
[21:07] <RichEd> i've had a pretty awful day along with the rest of cape town
[21:07] <RichEd> 2.5 hours outage yesterday afternoon
[21:07] <RichEd> outage again this morning ... jane wasn't well but decided to drag herself into work ...
[21:07] <ogra> you should buy some solar panels
[21:08] <ogra> you have a lot sun down there
[21:08] <RichEd> she was home 20 mins later saying the roads were blocked solid everywhere
[21:08] <RichEd> turns out a truck lost a container (shipping size) going over a bridge and that landed on a car
[21:09] <RichEd> 2 women sqaushed and trapped inside
[21:09] <RichEd> so the main aterial road crossing from anywhere to anywhere in cape town was shut from 6:30am to 1:00pm
[21:10] <RichEd> and as a result, people were up to 5 hours late for work ... with all the back-up traffic consequences ... so then you add dead (powerless) traffic lights ...
[21:11] <ogra> oh fun
[21:12] <ogra> in case you havent seen it: http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/19/classmate-pc-hits-store-shelves-in-philippines-as-neo-explore-x1/
[21:12] <RichEd> so that's why i wasn't at the meeting ... i had 4 hours in the car ... baking sun ... grumpy fellow drivers ... and accomplished exactly 2 things ... which in the normal world would have taken 3 hours tops
[21:12] <RichEd> but took instead the whole $*& day
[21:12] <ogra> we didnt hold a meeting

[21:12] <RichEd> ?
[21:12] <RichEd> no-one around ?
[21:13] <ogra> well, i'm busy with beta stuff and it wasnt on the schedule anyway ... nobody showed up or pinged so i left it slip
[21:14] <ogra> working on an install doc https://wiki.edubuntu.org/HardyClassroomServer
[21:15] <RichEd> ^ well that's what the main topic i wanted to discuss ... prompted by LaserJock
[21:16] <RichEd> he was worried there was no install doc, so i said this week's meeting should focus on docs for hardy
[21:16] <RichEd> so if you get the install doc done, then you and i and LaserJock can chat during the week to see what else is missing or needs revision
[21:17] <RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser was talking about some docs he wanted to write
[21:17] <ogra> right, i'll flesh that out more
[21:17] <ogra> but essentially thats what you need to do
[21:17] <RichEd> great ... a wiki list would be good ... i'll start a shell page now
[21:17] <ogra> (to get a classromm server)
[21:18] <RichEd> then you can add your doc, with a short description, and list what else comes to mind in terms of * new required or * existing to be revised
[21:18] <RichEd> ? classroom server ?
[21:20] <ogra> yeah
[21:20] <ogra> thats what we called the CD in former releases
[21:20] <ogra> so edubuntu with LTSP and italc == classroom server
[21:23] <RichEd> ahhh
[21:23] <RichEd> is clasroom server an absolute requirement or can the iTalc manager run on a edubuntu workstation ?
[21:24] <stgraber> RichEd: you can run iTalc on a Windows workstation to control an Edubuntu network made of classmate if you like
[21:25] <stgraber> RichEd: though you'll have to add your "clients" manually (get their IPs and add them to iTalc)
[21:25] <ogra> its cross platform and works on any kind of client
[21:25] <ogra> that was the main reason to pick it
[21:26] <RichEd> stgraber: excellent ... some of the schools in the developing countries would not really have a full network with servers
[21:26] <stgraber> RichEd: My LTSP specific change to iTalc is that in a LTSP environment it'll automatically generate a LTSP classroom containing all the thin clients
[21:26] <RichEd> stgraber: well as for the manual add, does it "discover"machines it can see on a network, or do you need to add IP for it to see them
[21:27] <stgraber> you need to add the IPs, iTalc doesn't have avahi support or similar stuff
[21:29] <RichEd> so is there any tool / utility (gui preferably) that we have by default or in main that would run through a network range looking for responses ?
[21:29] <RichEd> ogra: ^ ?
[21:30] <stgraber> nmap but that's CLI and not really user friendly :)
[21:30] <ogra> i think the gnome network test tool has something
[21:30] <johnny> zenmap
[21:30] <johnny> nmap has a nicer gui option now
[21:30]  * RichEd checks out the gnome option
[21:31] <ogra> hmm, no you cant scan a range with it
[21:31] <RichEd> was about to come to the same conclusion
[21:31] <RichEd> i'll check add/remove with a search ...
[21:31] <johnny> i forget what it is called in ubuntu
[21:31] <johnny> t he package for nmap gui
[21:31] <ogra> well, nmapfe
[21:32] <johnny> yes.. nmapfe
[21:32] <johnny> it looks even prettier now
[21:32] <ogra> its scary for normal people
[21:32] <ogra> way to overloaded
[21:32] <johnny> hmm.. then just print it out in zenity? from nmap cli?
[21:33] <RichEd> something light and simple ... then we can add a section to our italc doc (or wiki page) on how to find the IPs from one place (teacher workstation) and then copy / paste into iTalc
[21:33] <ogra> hmm, and nmapfe doesnt have a .desktop file it seems
[21:33] <ogra> so it doesnt show up in g-a-i
[21:33] <johnny> that's a change from before
[21:33] <RichEd> nmapfe appears in my add/remove
[21:34] <ogra> it doesnt in my hardy
[21:35] <ogra> and apt-cache only knows nmap
[21:35] <ogra> but no nmapfe
[21:35] <RichEd> kswitch *may* help ...
[21:35]  * ogra never heard of it
[21:35] <ogra> oh
[21:36] <RichEd> damn ... can't copy from the add/remove description
[21:36] <stgraber> (10:35:11 PM) Tobias Doerffel:   a plugin-arch. is already in development
[21:36] <stgraber> (10:35:17 PM) Tobias Doerffel:   one kind of plugins will be client-import-plugins
[21:36] <stgraber> (10:35:58 PM) Tobias Doerffel:   there could be plugins for LDAP, YP and network-scan
[21:36] <ogra> its called zenmap now apparently
[21:36]  * RichEd head off to the web link
[21:36] <RichEd> heads
[21:37] <johnny> that's what i said :) zenap :)
[21:37] <johnny> zenmap*
[21:37] <ogra> yeah
[21:37] <ogra> nontheless its not in g-a-i
[21:37] <ogra> that needs fixing if we wantr to recommend it
[21:38] <RichEd> are there any commandline utils / commands ?
[21:38] <ogra> nmap
[21:38] <johnny> well you could build a zenity dialog?
[21:38] <johnny> based on the results
[21:38] <ogra> nah
[21:38] <ogra> we're in beta
[21:38] <johnny> beta is for dorks
[21:38] <RichEd> command line is okay 'cos then they can pipe input to a text doc
[21:38] <johnny> alpha FTW
[21:38] <johnny> hehe
[21:38] <RichEd> and then work there way through that
[21:39] <RichEd> we just need to write a recipe level instruction ...
[21:39] <RichEd> or a script they can copy & paste into a terminal
[21:41] <stgraber> RichEd: I probably can write a script which you give your network and network mask and it'll generate iTalc's config
[21:41] <stgraber> RichEd: I do that for LTSP, the only difference is that I'll need to use nmap's output instead of my current "ps aux"
[21:42] <ogra> actually just ping -b -c1 <net address> should suffice
[21:42]  * LaserJock comes back to his computer
[21:43] <RichEd> LaserJock: never realised that you actuall step away from it :)
[21:43] <RichEd> *actually
[21:44] <RichEd> stgraber: well if you could do that, then "most excellent"
[21:44] <RichEd> you know the iTalc side of it, so you could mesh the output / input instructions best
[21:45]  * RichEd heads off to get that wiki page for doc started ... and will add the instructions to the list with an outline and a suitable name
[21:45] <RichEd> back in a bit
[21:46] <RichEd> oh LaserJock scrollback to see what ogra and i just chatted about ...
[21:46] <RichEd> he's busy with an installdoc for hardy server :)
[21:46] <RichEd> and i'm making a wiki page for you to add any other docs you think we need to create or revise/update
[21:47] <RichEd> back in a short while with the URL
[21:47] <ogra> no, i'm busy weith beta stuff and classmate  :)
[21:47] <ogra> not thye time for docs for me actually
[21:47] <LaserJock> stgraber: we have no doc on iTalic, do you think  you could work up some stuff?
[21:47] <RichEd> you just said this a few lines ago:
 working on an install doc https://wiki.edubuntu.org/HardyClassroomServer
[21:48] <RichEd> ??
[21:49] <ogra> yes i started that
[21:49] <ogra> i dont have time to work on docs on beat day
[21:49] <ogra> *beta as well :P
[21:49] <LaserJock> ogra: have the system requirements changed since gutsy?
[21:50] <ogra> yes
[21:50] <stgraber> ogra, RichEd: http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/f18309f65
[21:50] <ogra> LaserJock, "to install an edubuntu desktop you need 1G of spare diskspace"
[21:50] <ogra> ;)
[21:50] <stgraber> just call it with something like : sh run-italc 172.16.0.0/21
[21:50] <LaserJock> ogra: but what about the LTSP part?
[21:51] <LaserJock> and thin client specs?
[21:51] <stgraber> it'll scan the range and generate the xml
[21:51] <ogra> still the same
[21:51] <LaserJock> k
[21:51] <ogra> LTSP is in ubuntu though
[21:51] <LaserJock> we have to document it though, regardless of where it is
[21:51] <ogra> we dont have to care for it in edubuntu :)
[21:51] <ogra> right, but the docs should belong to ubuntu
[21:51] <LaserJock> no, we *have* to care because nobody else will
[21:52] <LaserJock> but they don't and that can't be changed for Hardy
[21:52] <LaserJock> the Edubuntu Handbook is still the only shippable doc that has LTSP info
[21:52] <ogra> LaserJock, the above wikipage RichEd pasted describes the process loosely
[21:53] <LaserJock> well, I see a couple options
[21:53] <LaserJock> 1) fix up the Edubuntu handbook and get it updated like now
[21:53] <LaserJock> 2) don't ship  the handbook and rely on www.edubuntu.org pages for installation/help
[21:55] <LaserJock> personally I don't think we can really do 1) unless several people have some newly found free time
[21:55] <pygi> the Edubuntu handbook, as I already said number of times, isn't really where people want to work
[21:56] <LaserJock> pygi: yes, we are aware of that :-)
[21:57] <LaserJock> a decision needs to be made though
[21:57] <LaserJock> ogra: what do you think?
[21:57] <LaserJock> RichEd: ?
[21:58] <RichEd> LaserJock: i'll make that page ... about to create one with this URL
[21:58] <RichEd> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Documentation/HardyRequirements
[21:58] <ogra> we have it on the web anyway
[21:58] <RichEd> then i'll add the install doc for server
[21:58] <RichEd> one for workstation
[21:58] <LaserJock> ok, but are we going to do 1) or 2) ?
[21:58] <RichEd> (just an outline)
[21:59] <RichEd> LaserJock: getting it right online I think is goal #1
[21:59] <ogra> LaserJock, why would you rip it out ?
[21:59] <LaserJock> ogra: because it's wrong!
[21:59] <ogra> is it ?
[21:59] <LaserJock> we can't ship gutsy docs in hardy
[21:59] <LaserJock> yes, it is
[21:59] <RichEd> then the compendium can come afterwards, assembled from the individual pages
[21:59] <ogra> well, but the configuration of ltsp servers for example hasnt changed
[22:00] <LaserJock> http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/edubuntu/handbook/C/
[22:00] <ogra> the majority of stuff is very likely still valid
[22:00] <RichEd> so then if we go the online route, then it is easy to copy & paste into a wiki page the gutsy sections that still are valid
[22:00] <LaserJock> so we need to do s/TCM/iTalic/, rewrite chapter 2 and parts of chapter 1
[22:00] <RichEd> and comment on the ones that need revising
[22:00] <RichEd> and then we can tackle those piecemeal and independently
[22:01] <ogra> LaserJock, ok, drop it
[22:01] <ogra> i dont see anyone doing that
[22:01] <RichEd> ogra: you mean updating ?
[22:02] <RichEd> or revising from gutsy to hardy >
[22:02] <ogra> thats the same sadly
[22:03] <ogra> its more than we can afford to update it ... rewriting whole chapters is just a bit much
[22:04] <ogra> so dumpi9ng it from the install is the best option
[22:05] <ogra> then we can update the online version independently from the release cycle
[22:05] <RichEd> if it is not on the install, sobeit ... let's get an online revision moving, then at least as a live resource, it will improve
[22:05] <RichEd> the ship doc is static and frozen
[22:05] <ogra> which was fine when someone kept it up to date
[22:06]  * RichEd gets a list started as a first step forward, which seems more productive than a circular debate here about the sad state of affairs
[22:07] <RichEd> then at least the list will outline *how sad it is and *where it is sad ... and then we can chew smaller pieces rather than try to swallow the whole thing
[22:16] <LaserJock> ogra: ok then, when Beta is over I'll upload a new edubuntu-docs that will keep the current source, but the binary will only install the "About Edubuntu"
[22:16] <ogra> yeah
[22:17] <ogra> saldy scottie is busy with RL
[22:17] <LaserJock> yeah, common problem :/
[22:17] <LaserJock> I think we should really focus our doc efforts on www.edubuntu.org
[22:17] <ogra> well, he vainshed for four months off the face of the earth
[22:18] <ogra> just turned up again recently
[22:18] <LaserJock> develop stuff in the wiki and then migrate them over to www.edubuntu.org when "release ready"
[22:18] <ogra> yeah
[22:24]  * RichEd nods
[22:24] <RichEd> in agreement and sleepiness
[22:44] <RichEd> ogra:
[22:44] <RichEd> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Documentation/HardyRequirements
[22:44] <RichEd> go mad ... add docs you think we need
[22:44] <RichEd> existing docs that need refreshing
[22:44] <RichEd> and there is a section to make comments on the handbook
[22:45] <RichEd> please add the doc(s) you know scotty is busy with
[22:46]  * RichEd heads to bed
[22:46] <RichEd> night all
[22:47] <LaserJock> cya RichEd