[00:28] <seele> Tonio_: awesome!
[02:52] <nixternal> who broke what tonight?
[02:55] <n8k99> my heart
[02:58] <nixternal> hahahaha
[03:01] <ScottK2> nixternal: For me initramfs doesn't see my md0 array on the server I upgraded to Hardy tonight.
[03:06] <nixternal> I have some booged python pkg, probably from a non-testing motu
[03:13] <nixternal> hrmm, people already announcing the beta release and it isn't even released yet
[03:20] <nixternal> are the latest ISOs working fine anyone know?
[03:24] <daSKreech> Dunno
[03:25] <daSKreech> I have like a Alpha 4 ISO and I just update from that
[03:28] <ScottK2> nixternal: Which package?  It may also be the recently python-central changes.  Nothing like changing the tool chain in incompatible ways the day before beta freeze starts.
[03:29] <nixternal> hehe, python-wxgtk2.8
[03:29] <nixternal> I just purged it
[03:29] <nixternal> don't even know why it was installed in teh first place
[03:30] <nixternal> nixternal@ShakaDoobie:~$ dpkg -l *gtk* | grep ii | wc -l
[03:30] <nixternal> 21
[03:30] <nixternal> that is way to much gtk crap on this machine
[03:30]  * nixternal gets to cleaning
[03:32] <daSKreech> nixternal: what was all that?
[03:33] <nixternal> nixternal@ShakaDoobie:~$ dpkg -l *gtk* | awk '{print $1}' | grep ii | wc -l
[03:33] <nixternal> 14
[03:43] <daSKreech> nixternal: Yes :) what apps made you install gtk?
[03:43] <nixternal> inkscape and gobby
[03:43] <nixternal> the others I have no clue
[03:44] <nixternal> the gtk files left are needed for the gtk-qt-engine, gobby, and inkscape
[03:51] <daSKreech> why do you have a gtk engine for apps you don't use?
[05:05] <nixternal> daSKreech: that is a good point actually
[05:06] <daSKreech> I made a good point?
[05:08] <nixternal> unbelievably so
[05:11] <daSKreech> :)
[05:12] <nixternal> VBox is the shiznit
[05:12] <nixternal> it totally flies on my desktop, where as MS VPC is slow and so is VMWarez
[05:13] <daSKreech> I forget is it open source?
[05:13] <nixternal> yup
[05:13] <nixternal> !info virtualbox-ose hardy
[05:13] <daSKreech> I keep hearing it is then it isn't
[05:13] <daSKreech> I'm still in qemu mode
[05:13] <nixternal> I don't have a cpu that can do virtualization anymore
[05:14] <daSKreech> Neither do I
[05:14] <nixternal> qemu was way to slow for me on my amd64 and my pentium d
[05:15] <daSKreech> Hmm
[05:16] <daSKreech> I have a live Cd that I start and run Qemu off it to boot the Debian image then in that I run qemu to run Haiku
[05:16] <daSKreech> seems to be ok to me
[06:21] <nareshov> Hi, adept_manager crashed, what -dbg package do I have to install to get a reasonable backtrace?
[06:56] <mornfall> nareshov: 2.1 or 3.0 alpha4?
[08:13] <nareshov> mornfall: 2.1
[08:13] <nareshov> "2.1 Cruiser"
[08:14] <mornfall> Ah, well.
[08:14] <mornfall> Can't help with that, I'm afraid.
[08:18] <nareshov> :\
[08:18] <nareshov> was trying out that adept_manager --dist-upgrade-devel :|
[08:20] <mornfall> That's something I don't even know about...
[08:20] <mornfall> Someone else probably did that.
[08:20] <nareshov> okay
[09:37] <yao_ziyuan> what i want is very simple:
[09:37] <yao_ziyuan> a ubuntu-style language selector
[09:37] <yao_ziyuan> just a simple list with checkboxes
[09:37] <yao_ziyuan> no confusing concepts like "default language", "install languages", "system language", "system locale"
[09:38] <yao_ziyuan> terminology consistency is very important
[09:38] <yao_ziyuan> and an additional checkbox for enabling east asian input (scim)
[09:39] <yao_ziyuan> or, a fedora-style language selector
[09:39] <yao_ziyuan> same thing
[09:39] <yao_ziyuan> please!!!
[09:40] <yao_ziyuan> should only use one concept: enabled languages
[09:40] <yao_ziyuan> if chinese is enabled, it automatically means scim must be enabled too
[09:40] <yao_ziyuan> because there is no reason why it shouldn't
[09:43] <jpatrick> ...........
[09:45] <Nightrose> morning jpatrick :)
[09:45]  * Nightrose starts isotesting again
[09:46] <jpatrick> moin Nightrose
[09:47] <Tonio_> hi there
[09:47] <Nightrose> heya
[09:52] <Tonio_> Riddell: can you approve kdesudo 2.5 waiting in the queue ?
[10:24] <Riddell> Tonio_: no, we're in beta freeze
[10:25] <Tonio_> Riddell: ah okay, that's why ;)
[11:34] <davmor2> Riddell: is there a reason for the two about kubuntu icon on the kde4 desktop?
[11:37] <Riddell> davmor2: no, it's a bug
[11:37] <davmor2> okay cool
[11:37] <Riddell> its on my todo list for after beta
[11:38] <davmor2> Riddell: I can test now I have t'interweb again and some connection speed :)
[11:38] <Riddell> yay
[11:39] <Riddell> davmor2: 20MBit goodness?
[11:40] <davmor2> Riddell: Yes yesterday I was only able to rsync at about 10kb/s and downloading direct was at about 56kb/s but the fault looks fixed now rsync is averaging 1.2Mb/s
[11:43] <Riddell> whee
[11:43] <davmor2> Riddell: you notice the difference
[11:46] <Riddell> davmor2: what did they have to do to fix it?
[11:47] <davmor2> Riddell: apparrently there was excessive noise on the line
[11:48] <serzholino> will Kubuntu DVD contain both KDE3 and KDE4 live CD's &
[11:48] <serzholino> ?
[11:48] <Riddell> serzholino: no (no space, and too complex to make)
[11:49] <serzholino> ok, and what about kde4 packages?
[11:49] <Riddell> serzholino: what about them?
[11:50] <Riddell> they're on the kde 4 CD, DVD is kde 3 only
[11:50] <serzholino> will they be included in DVD
[11:50] <sahin_w> I installed kubuntu-kde4-desktop on hardy
[11:50] <serzholino> ok, thanks
[11:50] <sahin_w> I realized I can't use spell checking in kwrite.
[11:51] <sahin_w> I'm talking about the KDE4 version.
[11:51] <sahin_w> Is spell checking works for somebody in KDE4?
[12:03] <davmor2> shouldn't jockey auto start to say there's an Nvidia card in my machine?
[12:04] <davmor2> Riddell: ^
[12:05] <Riddell> mhb ^
[12:05] <Riddell> oh, he's not around
[12:05] <jpatrick>  /msg SeenServ seen mhb
[12:05] <Riddell> it runs  jockey-kde --check
[12:06] <davmor2> Riddell: kde4 isn't :(
[12:07] <davmor2> I got skim/nm/klip/my computer/clock and that's it
[12:12] <Nightrose> Riddell: testing alternate kde 4 desktop - it lets me choose my timezone but only american ones - no way to get mine - is this known? want me to file a bug?
[12:25] <Nightrose> umhhh never mind - /me headdesks
[12:29] <sahin_w> I found spell checking is broken in KDE4. So this is an upstream problem.
[12:29] <sahin_w> http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=159507
[12:29] <ubotu> KDE bug 159507 in kwrite "dictionary not found kate/kwrite" [Normal,Assigned]
[12:40] <davmor2> Riddell: I like the restart now that's been added to the installer it's about time :)
[12:58] <Riddell> davmor2: been meaning to do that for about three releases now :)
[13:01] <davmor2> Riddell: Much better anyway :)
[13:44]  * Jucato finds it amusing that a comment on seele's blog is telling her to talk to openusability.org :D
[13:45] <nosrednaekim> haha
[13:46] <Jucato> seele: btw. I don't think your most recent post made it to planetkde
[13:46] <seele> Jucato: yes, i've seemed to have dropped from planetkde.  i emailed clee about it
[13:47] <n8k99> i noticed that i only saw your post once in akregator
[13:47] <Jucato> seele: too bad... that particular post is extremely relevant to KDE :(
[13:47] <seele> i'm not sure when that happened.. it might have been before my last post
[13:47] <seele> yeah
[13:47] <n8k99> i think its because your hair is no longer blue
[13:47] <Jucato> lol :)
[13:48] <Jucato> n8k99: yeah I saw it from ubuntu planet/planet ubuntu
[13:48] <n8k99> ^_^
[13:48] <Jucato> :)
[13:50] <davmor2> Riddell: jockey doesn't auto start on Kubuntu 32-64bit or kde4 32-64bit
[13:51] <Riddell> davmor2: what happens if you start it manually?
[14:10] <davmor2> Riddell: kde4 starts the app but fails due to kdesudo once I ran the updates rebooted it still didn't seem to work properly but I'll test that again latter.
[14:12] <davmor2> Riddell: works manually on Kubuntu the pop up screen doesn't appear on kde4 (pop up reads some thing like are you sure you want to enable this?)
[14:50] <Tonio_> seele, Riddell: fancy testing kdesudo-kde4 3.1 ?
[14:50] <Tonio_> it should fix icon and app name when starting apps from kmenu/kickoff
[14:52] <Tonio_> or anyone else using kde4 ;)
[14:52] <Riddell> davmor2: have you come accross bug 199129 in any auto-resize install tests?
[14:52] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 199129 in ubiquity "Auto-resize install fails to mount drive" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199129
[14:53] <Riddell> Tonio_: got packages?
[14:53] <Tonio_> Riddell: http://www.toniox.org/temp
[14:53] <Tonio_> Riddell: of course :)
[14:54] <Tonio_> Riddell: just install and start adept_installer from kickoff
[14:55] <Riddell> you'll need to wait until I actually have a working machine again
[14:55] <Riddell> all busy with installs
[14:56] <Tonio_> Riddell: sure ;)
[14:56] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'm not on contrib day today, so no time to install kde4 and test
[14:56] <Tonio_> Riddell: if you can't test, that'll wait for friday, no pb
[14:56]  * Nightrose wonders what that little tray icon is...
[14:56] <Nightrose> in kde 4 - never seen it before
[14:57] <Nightrose> ohhh scim...
[14:57] <Nightrose> ok
[14:57] <Riddell> Nightrose: scim, which for some unknown reason is on the CD
[14:57] <Nightrose> ;-) ok
[14:58] <davmor2> Riddell:  No but I'm about to do another resize on Kubuntu 32 bit so I'll keep my eye out for it
[14:58] <davmor2> Riddell: jockey won't run correctly in oem mode
[14:59] <Riddell> davmor2: at what stage of oem mode?
[15:00] <davmor2> Riddell: once you in oem phase for update and adding packages, before you hit the Prepare for shipping button.
[15:00] <Riddell> davmor2: what doesn't work about it?
[15:01] <seele> Tonio_: works for when you start adept manager from kickoff, but not clicking adept notifier from the system tray
[15:01] <davmor2> Riddell: same as kde4 the kdesudo appears and asks for password the you get the window that list prop h/w.  You then select the nvidia card and nothing else happens
[15:04] <Tonio_> seele: hum interesting..... I'll try to figure out what happens on that side
[15:04] <seele> Tonio_: close though, that gets half a hug :)
[15:05] <Tonio_> seele: hehe :)
[15:05] <Riddell> davmor2: did it work in a normal KDE 3 session?
[15:05] <davmor2> Riddell: yes
[15:05] <Tonio_> seele: the problem is that there are different ways to call kdesu, without or without -c etc.....
[15:05] <Tonio_> seele: original kdesu doesn't resolve icon and app name, now I know why :)
[15:06] <Tonio_> seele: to have to do it differently depending the way it is called
[15:06] <davmor2> Riddell: Ive just hit the Prepare for Shipping button and am going to see if you can install it once in real mode
[15:08] <seele> ugh.. i woke up this morning with one meeting on my calendar for today
[15:08] <seele> there are now *six*
[15:09] <mvo> a file overwrite problem on dapper->hardy for kmplayer: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5874  if someone is interessted :) (and http://paste.ubuntu.com/5875)
[15:19] <Riddell> mvo: is it better to add Conficts and Replaces for such issues or is just Replaces fine?
[15:19] <mvo> Riddell: if its just about files moving from one package to the other a Replaces is fne
[15:19] <davmor2> Riddell: doesn't work in normal mode either :(
[15:20] <mvo> fine
[15:23] <Riddell> davmor2: at least that's consistent then
[15:24] <Riddell> mvo: when is both replaces/conflicts needed?
[15:26] <mvo> Riddell: when you want to get rid of something in favor of something else (Conflicts/Replaces: python2.4-foo when python-foo is now taking over the job of python2.4-foo for example)
[15:26] <mvo> its a bit confusing, because "replaces" can mean two different things: 1) replaces files that belong to some other package 2) replaces a package entirely
[15:27] <Riddell> mvo: ok, thanks
[15:31] <mvo> cheers :)
[15:40] <Riddell> mvo: uploaded fixed kmplayer
[15:44] <mvo> thanks!
[16:26]  * Jucato sees seele on planetkde now :)
[16:26]  * Jucato waits for the number of comments to go up :P
[16:39] <seele> Riddell: i thought kickoff was resizable in 4.0.2?
[16:39] <seele> or just panel?
[16:39] <Riddell> just panel I think
[16:40] <seele> ah
[16:45] <daSKreech> seele: You must be thinking of 4.2 :)
[16:46]  * Jucato whacks daSKreech with a club of 4.1
[16:46]  * daSKreech rolls a saving throw
[16:46]  * Jucato steals the dice/die
[16:47]  * daSKreech whaks Jukato with a klub of plenty
[16:50] <daSKreech> seele: I guess designing a software project for "people" is not sufficient as user research
[16:52] <Jucato> what kind of people? what do these people want to do with the product? what do people expect from the product? how are we going to evaluate the success of the product?
[16:52] <seele> exactly.  that is why i say "everyone/anyone" as an answer to "who" is not the correct answer
[16:53] <seele> it might be a lot of different types of people using your software, but they are not all using it in the same way for the same means
[16:53] <daSKreech> people with working digits hopefully at least one opposable, do groovy things, it not to crash and get better with time while taking up at most no more resources, when everyone can't function without it on the computer they are using
[16:53]  * daSKreech fully expects to be kicked now :)
[16:54] <nosrednaekim> daSKreech: where the heck is THAT from?
[16:54] <seele> i think he made it up
[16:54] <daSKreech> nosrednaekim: My head
[16:55] <seele> time for meeting 3/6 for today..
[16:55]  * seele goes afk
[16:55] <daSKreech> I was going to say gwenview might fit that but I can probably narrow gwenview down
[16:55] <nosrednaekim> 0.o
[16:55] <Riddell> seele: not only do you have lots of meetings, you also have no internet during them?!
[16:55] <daSKreech> That;s inhuman
[16:56] <seele> Riddell: luckily they are all phone calls.. but i do have to pay attention to most of them
[16:56] <seele> Riddell: i'm at home in pajamas and slippers :D
[16:56] <Riddell> seele: that's the best way to work :)
[16:56] <daSKreech> Ha ha :-)
[16:56] <daSKreech> I'm nearly there
[16:56] <daSKreech> minus slippers
[17:13] <Jucato> at least not "minus pajamas"
[17:20] <daSKreech> >_>
[17:20] <daSKreech> <_<
[17:20] <nixternal> anyone here have the Official Ubuntu Book 2nd Ed.?
[17:20] <daSKreech> shhhhhhh
[17:49] <Riddell> seele: you can add your testing results from yesterday to iso tracker if you want
[18:00] <Czessi> Hi, is there a way, that I can build kde4 packages for gutsy in my ppa?
[18:00] <comm_a_nder> hi there
[18:02] <jpatrick> hi comm_a_nder
[18:03] <Riddell> Czessi: what needs building?  I can add you to the kubuntu kde4 ppa if that's easier
[18:03] <jpatrick> Czessi: since the current kde4 ones are in their ppa, I don't think so. :(
[18:04] <Czessi> Riddell: coremoid, http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/CoreMoid?content=72789
[18:04] <Czessi> works great on hardy
[18:04]  * Nightrose would like to note that an installer that asks for all the information needed at the beginning and then installs would really rock (compared to one asking something now and then)
[18:05] <seele> Riddell: ok.  I'm testing wubi right now
[18:06] <daSKreech> Nightrose: isn't that what the current installer does?
[18:06] <daSKreech> or since the last time I installed
[18:06] <daSKreech> which was a year or two back
[18:06] <Nightrose> daSKreech: not really - I have to wait a few times each install
[18:07] <daSKreech> What gets asked in the middle?
[18:07] <Nightrose> username, proxy, ...
[18:08] <daSKreech> this is the GUI installer?
[18:08] <Nightrose> nope
[18:08] <Nightrose> cli
[18:08] <Nightrose> the gui one is fine
[18:08] <nareshov> adept_manager crashed on gutsy and I can't devel-upgrade to hardy ;/
[18:09] <nareshov> and I don't know what -dbg package to install to get meaningful bt
[18:17] <seele> uhm.. hmm.. wubi failed
[18:17] <seele> anyone else try this?
[18:18] <seele> well i dont knwo if it failed, it jsut didnt create a start entry, but i dont know how to start it in windows otherwise
[18:18] <nixternal> I haven't tried on the new one
[18:18] <seele> do you know how to start it without the shortcut?
[18:18] <nixternal> I used it this weekend though at a LUG event and it made quite a few people really happy
[18:18] <nixternal> did you reboot your computer?
[18:18] <seele> yep
[18:19] <nixternal> and there wasn't a menu item in the windows boot loader?
[18:19] <seele> nope
[18:19] <nixternal> well that stinks
[18:19] <nixternal> I am a windows dummy unfortunately for something like that
[18:19] <seele> i'm in a meeting now.. i'll uninstall and reinstall it on a different computer
[18:19] <nixternal> I haven't edited a windows boot loader since probably NT
[18:19] <seele> this isn't the cleanest windows box
[18:19] <nixternal> I installed it onto multiple Vista laptops this weekend with great success
[18:20] <Nightrose> Riddell: tested alternate kde 4 cd with crypto setup - not good :( - trustno1
[18:20] <nixternal> people were affraid of the dual boot option and after talking to them about wubi, they said go for it
[18:20] <Nightrose> meh
[18:20] <Nightrose> wrong window but still
[18:20] <nixternal> Nightrose: I am so glad you just said that, I was going to do my desktop
[18:20] <Nightrose> Riddell: crypto setup seems borked
[18:20] <Nightrose> ;-)
[18:20] <nixternal> as soon as that gets all worked out, I am going to redo my laptop
[18:22] <Nightrose> I get this when booting: modprobe warning: error inserting padlock:sha (/ib/modules/2.6.24-12-generic/kernel/drivers/crypto/padlock-sha.ko): no such device
[18:22] <Nightrose> and then:
[18:22] <Nightrose> cryptosetup: failed to setup lvm device
[18:24] <Nightrose> and it seems to stop at: running local boot scripts (/etc/rc.local)
[18:26] <Nightrose> jep stops there
[18:32] <gamemank> uhoh an n-m upgrade broke my internets
[18:33] <davmor2> Nightrose: was the crypto on 32bit or 64 bit?
[18:33] <Nightrose> 32
[18:34] <Nightrose> (I only test 32 bit stuff)
[18:34] <davmor2> np
[18:46] <davmor2> Nightrose: Did you check your cd image?
[18:46] <Nightrose> nope - install went fine so.. - but I will check now
[18:47] <nixternal> yuriy: it broke my internets a few days ago, actually only broke my eth0 internets because I had an old eth0 line in /etc/network/interfaces
[18:47] <nixternal> man, KDE Edu is doing some sweet arse work
[18:48] <yuriy> nothing weird in /etc/network/interfaces and neither eth0 (wired) or ath0 (wireless) seem to work, manually or through knm
[18:48] <yuriy> rebooting seems to have done the trick though
[18:48] <nixternal> ahh ya
[18:48] <nixternal> usually does :p
[18:48] <nixternal> new yakuake-kde4 awaiting approval :)
[18:49] <nixternal> nevermind, it was accepted
[18:49] <Riddell> nixternal: did you report wubi installs on iso testing?
[18:49] <Riddell> Nightrose: crypto setup?
[18:49] <nixternal> Riddell: I did the wubi installs from the Alpha 6 CD this weekend
[18:50] <Nightrose> Riddell: install on disk with encryption
[18:50] <Riddell> Nightrose: in the alternate installer?
[18:50] <Nightrose> jep
[18:50] <Nightrose> testing the image now
[18:50] <Nightrose> maybe it was broken
[18:50] <nixternal> we had an older gentleman, I would say around 80, come in with a brand new HP dv9000 laptop, totally gorgeous and one of the sweetest laptops I have seen
[18:50] <davmor2> Riddell: I got it installing now
[18:50] <nixternal> we installed Kubuntu on there because he doesn't like brown
[18:50] <nixternal> and he was in heaven with it..it was pretty neat
[18:51] <nixternal> and Kopete worked with his built-in Webcam right from the get go
[18:51] <davmor2> nixternal: I got one of them they are nice :)
[18:51] <nixternal> only thing that didn't work was the wifi (intel soemthing or other)
[18:51] <Nightrose> Riddell: test on the cd says the cd is fine
[18:51] <nixternal> davmor2: his had the volume slider up top, where you can slide your finger across it to pump up the volume :)
[18:51] <Nightrose> so something is b0rked
[18:51] <davmor2> nixternal: it needs ndiswrapper :(
[18:52] <nixternal> ahhh, I will make sure I tell his neighbor that so he can get him setup then
[18:52] <davmor2> Yeap thats the one
[18:52] <nixternal> it is so awesome
[18:52] <nixternal> Core 2 Duo 2.5 GHz, 3GB RAM, 17" widescreen, 2x 160GB SATA 7200 RPM drives (umph!)
[18:53] <nixternal> Gutsy didn't work worth a damn on it, but Hardy worked great
[18:53] <davmor2> nixternal: the only issue I had with mine is the sd card reader is a bit off :(
[18:53] <nixternal> ahh ya, that was a bit off we noticed
[18:53] <nixternal> don't know if that got fixed or not, but he was way to happy being an 80+ year old geek :)
[18:53] <nixternal> his daughter bought him the laptop so he could stay in touch with her easily when she travels
[18:54] <nixternal> it was a neat thing
[18:54] <daSKreech> my general feeling is that gutsy doesn't work
[18:54] <nixternal> hehe
[18:54] <nixternal> it is nice having fairly generic hardware, even the most broken of distros works great on it :p
[18:54] <davmor2> nixternal: I actually got the amd version of the same machine it was like 300 quid cheaper for the same spec.
[18:54] <nixternal> she paid $1,100 USD for it at a Costco here in Chicago
[18:55] <nixternal> if I had $1,100 USD burning a hole in my pocket, I would go and buy it
[18:55] <nixternal> if I had $1 USD burning a hole in my pocket, I would go and buy anything right about now :p
[18:57] <davmor2> nixternal: just save the dollar  and go to LRLUS 08 :)
[18:57] <nixternal> I thought about LRLUS, not sure if I want to go or will go just yet
[18:58] <nixternal> one of my buds, Joe Born from Neuros, is going and is trying to drag me along
[19:00] <nixternal> time to take the dogs for a walk
[19:00]  * daSKreech lights all of nixternal's dollar bills on fire and sticks them in his pants
[19:01] <davmor2> Nightrose: at which point do you get the error mine seems to work fine?
[19:01] <Nightrose> davmor2: when booting after I type in the password
[19:01] <Nightrose> then it boots until the line I posted
[19:01] <Nightrose> and stops
[19:02] <davmor2> No works fine here.
[19:02] <Nightrose> hmmm
[19:02] <Nightrose> I will install again
[19:02] <Nightrose> let's see if it happens again
[19:02] <Nightrose> will take some time though
[19:11] <davmor2> what package gives you the rest of the plasmoids ?
[19:11] <jjesse> extragears?
[19:11] <davmor2> cheers
[19:35] <yuriy> hmm can't seem to figure out how to set a plasma clock to UTC
[19:36] <yuriy> meeting tonight? almost nothing on the agenda...
[19:38] <Riddell> hmm, so there is
[19:39] <Riddell> yuriy: no, saturday according to fridge
[19:39] <Riddell> but today according to wiki
[19:39] <yuriy> and topic
[19:39] <Riddell> waily waily
[19:39] <Riddell> nixternal: do you know where fridge got its date from?
[19:39] <jjesse> oxen free?
[19:40] <Riddell> ?
[19:40] <jjesse> sorry wrong window
[19:40] <Riddell> you want #cattle-market
[19:40] <jjesse> lol
[19:40] <jjesse> does that exists?
[19:40] <jjesse> hrm new channel
[19:44] <Riddell> Czessi: I've added you to kubuntu-members-kde4, you can upload packages there if you want
[19:44] <Riddell> Czessi: is that package in hardy?
[19:46] <Czessi> Riddell: thanks. no, there is a hardy testpackage in my ppa. but i think it a good idea to have it in hardy. when its poosible to upload it at this time, i'll create a package
[19:47] <apachelogger> well, worst case would be hardy-backports when ibex development starts
[19:47] <Riddell> Czessi: can you put it on revu, we can take a look at it
[19:47] <Czessi> ok
[19:47] <Riddell> I'm going out now, hopefully I'll be back in time for the meeting
[19:48] <Riddell> if not, I'm sure someone else can clerk it just as well
[19:48] <apachelogger> :)
[19:48] <apachelogger> Riddell: have fun
[19:49] <davmor2> Riddell: on beta testing day your going out I don't know how you have the nevre ;)
[19:50] <Riddell> davmor2: I've got tests running!  these net installs take a long time you know
[19:50] <davmor2> :P
[20:00] <apachelogger> Riddell: I commit the current patch for amarok's media device detection to bzr
[20:26] <Nightrose> Riddell, nixternal, davmor2: second install seems to be ok now - I wonder what went wrong with the first one...
[20:27] <Nightrose> (I did exactly the same)
[20:27] <davmor2> Nightrose: did you forget your password :)
[20:27] <Nightrose> haha nope
[20:28] <Nightrose> and I booted the first one 3 times without success
[20:29] <seele> Nightrose: did you check the CD?  I had that problem last week and it ended up I burned 2 bad CDs in a row
[20:30] <Nightrose> seele: jep image is fine - I didn't burn it - using virtualbox
[20:31] <davmor2> Nightrose: that could be the issue :)
[20:31] <Nightrose> but why doeas it work the second time?
[20:31] <Nightrose> *does
[20:32] <nixternal> hey, for the encryption, do you have to do manual partitioning?
[20:33] <Nightrose> nope
[20:33] <nixternal> hrmm, I don't see the option on the ubuntu iso
[20:33] <nixternal> or I totally missed something
[20:34] <Nightrose> nixternal: using the gui installer?
[20:34] <nixternal> no, alternate
[20:34] <nixternal> is it gui only?
[20:34] <Nightrose> hmm same here
[20:34] <Nightrose> nope
[20:34] <Nightrose> but I guess it is missing there
[20:34] <nixternal> I will reinstall the Kubuntu one and see if I figure it out
[20:34] <Nightrose> it was the third guided option here IIRC
[20:34] <nixternal> ahh, maybe I just overlooked it then
[20:35] <nixternal> the ubuntu wallpaper is one oogly wallpaper
[20:35]  * Nightrose isn't really a fan of the new Kubuntu one either ;-)
[20:35] <Nightrose> but I use my own anyway so...
[20:35] <nixternal> I actually like the new Kubuntu one
[20:35] <nixternal> pretty much a first for me on liking a default wallpaper
[20:36] <Nightrose> hehe
[20:36] <daSKreech> nixternal: does it really have a heron on it?
[20:36] <nixternal> yes it does daSKreech
[20:36] <mhb> what's the current Kubuntu default?
[20:36] <daSKreech> Oh wow
[20:36] <mhb> the bluish abstractish one?
[20:36] <mhb> or something else
[20:36] <nixternal> I have to admit, whoever created that wallpaper did a good job, but the colors are to much
[20:36] <daSKreech> I liked it better when it was a bunch of Humans
[20:36] <nixternal> I like it better when it just black :p
[20:37] <nixternal> first thing I do with any non-blue install is go blue
[20:37] <mhb> hi folks as well
[20:37] <nixternal> howdy mhb
[20:37] <Nightrose> hey mhb
[20:37] <mhb> so what's the current kubuntu wallpaper?
[20:37] <mhb> the blue one?
[20:37] <nixternal> it is blue
[20:38] <mhb> very blue, very light, not much on it
[20:38] <nixternal> yes, that's it
[20:38] <nosrednaekim> no..... its got a ton of little curly spirals..
[20:38] <mhb> ah, I like the Ubuntu one more then
[20:38] <daSKreech> nixternal: it was never just black
[20:38] <nixternal> mhb: the one with the heron on it?
[20:38] <nosrednaekim> yeah, I like the heron :)
[20:38] <nixternal> eww
[20:39] <mhb> nixternal: yes, but it seems I can't find that one anymore, all I can find is heron-simple.png
[20:39] <daSKreech> Visually I odn't mind the heron it's just such a departure from the minimal guidelines
[20:39] <daSKreech> it's really overpowering
[20:39] <mhb> ah, warty-final-ubuntu
[20:39] <mhb> who could have thought
[20:39] <mhb> yes, that one I like
[20:39] <mhb> the blue one not so much
[20:40] <mhb> probbly because the heron is bold, and really fresh looking, unlike the blue one, which does not have anything defining on it
[20:41]  * Nightrose takes care of the dishes before the meeting - afk
[20:41] <mhb> I can't even describe it properly :o) ah bubbles, I miss you
[20:48] <nixternal> umm, how the heck do you change your video/monitor setup in Ubuntu?
[20:49] <nosrednaekim> somewhere DEEP in settings :)
[20:49] <nixternal> obviously...all I see is a resolutions setting, but I need to setup the monitor and vid card before I can setup resolutions
[20:55] <Nightrose> re
[20:55] <Nightrose> heya fregl :)
[20:55] <mhb> console line is the best
[20:55] <mhb> er, command line
[20:55] <fregl> evening Nightrose *g*
[20:56]  * mhb ist sehr dumm heute
[20:57] <Nightrose> Oo
[20:58] <nixternal> jeesh, getting ubuntu support is like picking boogers from a lions nose
[21:10] <emu> nixternal: ping
[21:11] <apachelogger> mhb: now you know how I feel ... everyday -.-
[21:13] <mhb> apachelogger: me too, especially these days
[21:13] <mhb> but there's a lot of new things I do these days
[21:14] <mhb> I've made my first edit to wikipedia! Added the note that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirchhoff's_theorem extends to multigraphs :o)
[21:15] <apachelogger> hm
[21:15]  * apachelogger is wondering why he doesn't need to scroll on that page
[21:15] <apachelogger> usually maths related pages are awfully long :S
[21:18] <mhb> apachelogger: guess I should add a proof
[21:19] <mhb> apachelogger: but I hate when something I do gets deleted
[21:19] <apachelogger> you could just write in uncyclopedia
[21:19] <apachelogger> the possibility something gets deleted there is quite low I guess
[21:20] <mhb> yeah, I guess
[21:20] <mhb> but adding math proofs there is not much fun
[21:22] <apachelogger> mhb: proof the theorem wrong
[21:26] <mhb> apachelogger: that's kinda hard
[21:26] <mhb> apachelogger: disproving something that has been proven and checked :o)
[21:27] <apachelogger> proofing others wrong is the ultimate goal of any scientist
[21:27] <apachelogger> cause usually when you proof some more valuable/bigger/whatever you proof someone other's work wrong
[21:38] <jpatrick> +b *!*@mar92-13-88-165-255-149.fbx.proxad.net!##fix_your_connection
[21:49] <mhb> apachelogger: well, at least in science, the best solution can be determined easily
[21:50] <mhb> apachelogger: or at least the correct solution
[21:51] <apachelogger> correct until someone superseeds the correctness ;-)
[21:51] <mhb> apachelogger: when someone develops a better algorithm for something, people do not ignore it just because it's GNOME only :o)
[21:52] <daSKreech> You have Gnome only algorithims?
[21:52] <daSKreech> how does that work outside of patents?
[21:52] <mhb> daSKreech: well, no
[21:53] <mhb> daSKreech: but you have Gnome only apps, which I was hinting at
[21:53] <apachelogger> there are gnome only apps which are better than KDE/generic ones?
[21:54] <mhb> cheese
[21:54] <mhb> for instance
[21:54] <daSKreech> Oh cheese is nice
[21:55] <mhb> it's the same as photo booth, a really cool app for OS X
[21:55] <mhb> I like both of those, except cheese is not really working out of the box on my mac
[21:55] <apachelogger> never heard of it
[21:55] <mhb> no such thing for KDE
[21:55] <coreymon77> mhb: photobooth is so fun to goof around with :P
[21:55] <apachelogger> never heard of photo both either
[21:56]  * Nightrose has used photobooth on her ex's mac
[21:56] <Nightrose> was fun
[21:57] <mhb> yep
[21:57] <apachelogger> ah
[21:57] <apachelogger> right
[21:57] <apachelogger> that app
[21:57] <apachelogger> I think my fancy switch windows scripts are more useful :P
[21:57] <Nightrose> mhb: is cheese as good as it yet?
[21:57] <mhb> no, at least not working with my mac yet
[21:57] <Nightrose> k
[21:59] <nixternal> emu: pong?
[21:59] <mhb> apachelogger: there you go - one app that is GNOME only
[21:59] <apachelogger> ok
[21:59] <mhb> apachelogger: if we're lucky, someone contacts the project and tries to work on a frontend with the same base code
[21:59]  * apachelogger meanwhile crashed his gnome -.-
[22:00] <coreymon77> mhb: that doesnt mean that you cant run the app in kubuntu though, isnt it? cant gnome apps run anyways?
[22:00] <nixternal> heh, I have been writing a webcam Qt app trying to get some cooler webcammage in Kubuntu with my webcam
[22:00] <apachelogger> uhhhh, that was a hidden message!!!
[22:00] <apachelogger> Nightrose: did you see that
[22:00] <apachelogger> mhb is using hidden messages to confuse me
[22:00] <Nightrose> oO
[22:00] <Nightrose> was it?
[22:00] <mhb> apachelogger: if we're not, someone tries to do that from scratch and we've got Yet Another Duplicated Work
[22:01] <daSKreech> Use the same lib
[22:01] <apachelogger> the thing with duplicates is that they are mostly not duplicates
[22:01] <daSKreech> don't see why an algorithim is gnome only
[22:01] <daSKreech>  dont we use libgphoto2 ?
[22:01] <apachelogger> no duplicates would cause an MS-like status
[22:01] <mhb> apachelogger: show me a duplicate for rm then
[22:02] <nixternal> del
[22:02] <daSKreech> :-)
[22:02] <nixternal> haha
[22:02] <mhb> bash: del: command not found
[22:02] <daSKreech> a bunch of my students made an alias for del to rm
[22:02] <daSKreech> and ren to mv
[22:02] <nixternal> who in their right mind would go after duplicating command line apps let alone GNU tools anyways?
[22:02] <apachelogger> daSKreech: I did do this as well
[22:03] <mhb> extending that argument makes all the GNOME guys unright, also all us Kubuntu ones
[22:03] <daSKreech> nixternal: sco?
[22:03] <nixternal> I don't care about duplicated work...if someone wants to duplicate it, they have that freedom
[22:04] <nixternal> but if someone duplicates an app and sticks it on gnome-apps or kde-apps, then it isn't either Gnome or KDE's fault
[22:04] <mhb> not so
[22:04] <apachelogger> freedom is a duplicate in itself IMO
[22:04] <mhb> someone duplicates, we help them out and bam - there are two big projects which do the same thing yet nobody really helps each other
[22:04] <daSKreech> mhb: Not if the projects are just front ends?
[22:04] <nixternal> is there something duplicated where we helped them out?
[22:05] <daSKreech>  then they can both work on the underlying algorithim
[22:05] <daSKreech> like parted
[22:05] <mhb> the whole Kubuntu, I guess
[22:05] <mhb> is just duplicated Ubuntu :o)
[22:05] <nixternal> it isn't the duplicators fault then, the problem lies within "we"
[22:05] <mhb> just a point of view, of course
[22:05] <nixternal> wth
[22:05] <nixternal> then every distro is a duplicated Linux kernel
[22:05] <nixternal> they should all die and everyone work on the kernel
[22:05] <apachelogger> lol
[22:05] <daSKreech> not KDe4 :)
[22:05] <apachelogger> essentially everything is a duplicate
[22:06] <daSKreech> It has windows as a distro
[22:06]  * mhb studies math, not philosophy :o)
[22:06] <daSKreech> It's unique :)0
[22:06]  * mhb studies CS, to be exact, but math is pretty close
[22:06] <apachelogger> a computers is a duplicate of the brain
[22:06] <apachelogger> doing calculations how stupid is that
[22:06] <apachelogger> it's slow and looks stupid, and even needs an own device to output it's results
[22:07] <daSKreech> CS is a subset of applied math in most Universities
[22:07] <nixternal> while we are at it, lets eliminate all humans, they are copies!
[22:07] <daSKreech> Of germs!
[22:08] <nixternal> well, I guess it would depend on your beliefs
[22:08] <daSKreech> a virus Mr Anderson
[22:08] <daSKreech> One which I intend to wipe off this earth
[22:08] <mhb> it's going a bit off, I guess
[22:09] <nixternal> IRC is a duplicate, eliminate it...email is a duplicate, eliminate it, the Internet is a duplicate, eliminate it
[22:09]  * nixternal grabs the cat and eliminates it
[22:09] <nixternal> this is fun!
[22:09] <apachelogger> nope
[22:09]  * nixternal gets back to writing
[22:10] <mhb> still, seeing the freedom of math, I can't really stop myself drifting away from all this gnome and kde and ubuntu stuff
[22:10] <nosrednaekim> daSKreech: why do you mention my name? shhh its supposed to be a secret :)
[22:11] <mhb> it feels so blocking the creative mind
[22:11] <mhb> I see it as obstacles. But as many other things, it's just my point of view
[22:11] <apachelogger> nosrednaekim: secrets != freedom
[22:12] <apachelogger> i.e. evil
[22:13] <daSKreech> mhb: sorry go over why the implementation of math is evil again?
[22:13] <mhb> what's the SendQ that keeps kicking people?
[22:13] <mhb> I haven't seen that exit message before
[22:14] <mhb> daSKreech: the implementation of math is fine, but the current state of Free Software, especially the GUI frameworks and distributions is evil, or rather: harmful to innovation
[22:14] <daSKreech> mhb: nope
[22:15] <mhb> daSKreech: you're blocked in many ways, like you have to care for all sort of silly and unneccessary package managers etc.
[22:15] <mhb> daSKreech: also desktop environment
[22:16] <mhb> daSKreech: from a scientist's (or engineer's) point of view there has to be a theoretical "best" desktop environment but in reality there's no such thing; both of the main ones are really slow and memory-hungry.
[22:17] <daSKreech> mhb: Why do you care about package managers?
[22:17] <mhb> daSKreech: a 2001 OS by a commercial company provides all the "bling" one needs for a lot more speed
[22:17] <mhb> even though it has one significant flaw: it's not unix :o)
[22:18] <daSKreech> mhb: It would be ultimately customizable but 100% secure and stable do everything faster than you can react but take up less memory than the kernel
[22:20] <mhb> daSKreech: I don't get your last comment
[22:22] <daSKreech> the theoritcal "best" desktop environement would
[22:22] <mhb> daSKreech: ah yes, indeed :o)
[22:22] <mhb> daSKreech: unfortunately no software is bugless
[22:22] <mhb> daSKreech: even the ol' unix command line tools have bugs
[22:24] <daSKreech> as noted inthe man pages
[22:24] <daSKreech> bc does not actually do math
[22:25] <apachelogger> mhb: sendq is some buffer on the irc server
[22:26] <apachelogger> IIRC the connection breaks with the sendq exceeded message when your connection can't take the amount of data the server is sending to you
[22:26] <mhb> apachelogger: thank you
[22:26] <apachelogger> then the server starts using that sendq and if that buffer is filled up some servers will break the connection
[22:27] <mhb> ah, so the q stands for queue :o)
[22:27] <daSKreech> who would have thunk?
[22:28] <mhb> daSKreech: it's hard to guess when it's not your native language, I guess
[22:28] <mhb> daSKreech: even though I know people use it that way, I didn't "get" it before the explanation
[22:28] <mhb> daSKreech: or I'm plain old stupid :o) your choice
[22:29] <daSKreech> English people are really quite lazy :)
[22:34] <Riddell> groovy
[22:34] <jpatrick> welcome back Riddell
[22:35] <nosrednaekim> ok, I'm messed up, is the meetin in 20 minutes?
[22:35] <mhb> I hope so
[22:35] <Riddell> nosrednaekim: 25 yes
[22:35] <jpatrick> nosrednaekim: yep
[22:35] <nosrednaekim> ok... day-light savings time just happened here and I'm all messed up :)
[22:36] <Riddell> UTC has no summer time
[22:36] <nosrednaekim> yeah.... i'm going to have to add another plasma clock and set it to UTC :)
[22:36] <coreymon77> oh
[22:37] <coreymon77> so the meeting is when?
[22:37] <coreymon77> 7 for me?
[22:37] <coreymon77> im on edt now
[22:37] <jpatrick> mhb: send q is when the client reaches the limit of requests it can send to a server
[22:38] <nosrednaekim> coreymon77: yep.
[22:38] <coreymon77> is the meeting in about 20-25 minutes-ish?
[22:38] <jpatrick> coreymon77: what nosrednaekim said
[22:38] <coreymon77> okay
[22:38] <apachelogger> yeess
[22:38] <coreymon77> wow, this whole switching to edt earlier than normal thing has really made things confusing
[22:40] <nosrednaekim> coreymon77: thats what I say
[22:41] <coreymon77> nosrednaekim: its rediculous, the US jumps, we jump with them
[22:43] <nosrednaekim> coreymon77: its ridiculous that the US jumped in the first place.
[22:44] <coreymon77> i know
[22:44] <daSKreech> What?
[22:44] <jpatrick> daSKreech: +1
[22:45] <daSKreech> we don't engage in war time frivolities so I have no idea what's going on
[22:45] <apachelogger> lol
[22:45] <apachelogger> totally uninformed
[22:45] <Hobbsee> kubuntu meeting...now, right?
[22:45] <jpatrick> Hobbsee: in 15 minutes
[22:46] <jpatrick> Hobbsee: btw, I removed some 2 year bans of yours in #kubuntu, hope you don't mind :)
[22:47] <coreymon77> jpatrick: ya and by doing so you almost kicked me off due to excess flood
[22:47]  * alleeHol suggests date --utc  # <- work without a webbrowser, irc client ;)
[22:47] <Hobbsee> jpatrick: no problem
[22:47] <coreymon77> jpatrick: since it happened right when i connected
[22:47] <jpatrick> coreymon77: whops, sorry :)
[22:47] <coreymon77> jpatrick: no prob
[22:47] <coreymon77> jpatrick: "almost" is the key word there
[22:47] <coreymon77> ;)
[22:48] <\sh> Hobbsee: if you could have a fast look on nexuiz 2.4 ffe ;) I could start the upload tonight ;)
[22:48] <Hobbsee> \sh: that's a crackful package.
[22:48] <\sh> Hobbsee: well...I made one in the past for suse ;) so I knew already what comes onto me ;)
[22:49] <\sh> Hobbsee: but 2.4 is sane and easy :)
[22:49] <Hobbsee> sure sure.  does it have a valid source?
[22:50] <\sh> Hobbsee: no one uses the .zip from upstream, because of binaries inside..so they are splitting them up from what's in the .zip...so you have 3 orig tar gzs..
[22:50] <nosredna_ekim> heh.... we aren't on the meeting docket.
[22:50]  * apachelogger is looking for meeting music
[22:50] <\sh> (3 because fteqcc needs to be upgraded as well)
[22:51] <\sh> Hobbsee: the new packages do have valid sources, yes :)
[22:51] <Hobbsee> right
[22:51] <\sh> Hobbsee: they were modelled after the original debian ones :)
[22:55] <Riddell> ** Kubuntu Meeting in 5 minutes in #ubuntu-meeting
[22:55] <Riddell> hah, jpatrick beat me to it :)
[22:55] <nosredna_ekim> Riddell: is that some sort of semi-global message?
[22:55] <jpatrick> Riddell: I inform #kubuntu, -offtopic, -es, and -de ;)
[22:55] <nosredna_ekim> jpatrick: and kubuntu-kde4
[22:56] <jpatrick> nosredna_ekim: arg, too many
[22:57] <Riddell> nixternal: about for the meeting?
[23:16] <Hobbsee> if i stop responding in the meeting, i've probably passed out
[23:16]  * daSKreech preps the First Responder manual
[23:18] <yuriy> blueyed: were you working on packaging gtk-engine-qt4?
[23:18] <blueyed> yuriy: I've tried it, but it failed..
[23:21] <yuriy> blueyed: oh. i wanted to add its inclusion to the meeting agenda, but since noone's even started packaging it yet it's most certainly too late
[23:22] <blueyed> yuriy: well, I started, but it failed.. just pbuilding it again to see what it was.. you may want to ask there though..
[23:23] <blueyed> yuriy: at least there's some uglyness with gtk apps now.. but that can be worked around, e.g. by running apps from krunner directly (or unsetting GTK2_RC_FILES in a shell)
[23:29] <mhb> good night folks
[23:29] <daSKreech> Riddell: ping
[23:29] <mhb> I'm not of much help at today's meeting anyway
[23:30] <daSKreech> should I add debian tracking trunk on the agenda?
[23:30] <daSKreech> mhb: night
[23:30] <Riddell> daSKreech: add whatever you like
[23:30] <daSKreech> Riddell: Of course :)