[00:02] I am here to appeal on behalf of emma [00:03] I am here on my own will [00:03] ... and of course, the fact that you joined at a 46 seconds distance is coincidence :) [00:04] I told her to come [00:04] not vice versa [00:04] if she told me, I would have been here after her [00:04] logically speaking [00:04] now, down to business [00:04] sounds logical. [00:05] emma was kickbanned in #ubuntu for making a comment which offended an IRC op [00:05] however, her comments about a "slimy Israeli company" can be interpreted in many ways [00:06] the adjectives "slimy" and "israeli" modify the noun "company" [00:06] that part is a late development i believe. [00:07] then tell me, why can she not speak in #ubuntu-offtopic? [00:07] because she's pushed and pushed for a ban, over a prolonged period of time [00:07] How so? [00:09] Her comments in the channel are not offensive in any way [00:09] picard_pwns_kirk: the first ban i see (on -offtopic, then there's something for #ubuntu) was on 13 february, by me, for keeping talking about politics after warned to stop. then it was a crescendo. [00:10] picard_pwns_kirk: are you even familiar with the history involved? [00:10] Was there a kick before that? [00:10] tonyyarusso: I have read the logs [00:10] picard_pwns_kirk: yes, there was. [00:10] all of them eh? [00:11] And where did you find these logs? [00:11] the #ubuntu-offtopic channel is not logged at irclogs.ubuntu.com [00:11] * Seeker` has seen emma in here for a lot of time recently, it would take many many hours to read all of the logs from just this channel [00:11] WHich is precisely why I ask. [00:12] I have read logs from this channel [00:12] which allows me to roughly piece together what happened [00:12] picard_pwns_kirk: It doesn't give you all of the facts then [00:12] "roughly" != knowing what's going on [00:12] Please try again after you are informed enough to do so in a useful manner. [00:13] LjL - No there was not. You banned me quite some time ago when I was very new to #ubuntu-offtopic , there were incidental issues but I was kickbanned for my comments about IRSeek. In fact. EVERY incidental issue probably relates in some ways to my comments about IRSeek, and in the -offtopic channel only. I always respect #ubuntu. And rarely ever speak there. [00:14] tonyyarusso: is there any better source of information than the channel logs themselves? [00:14] emma, that is not accurate. [00:14] the ban i am referring to is [00:14] #ubuntu-offtopic emma LjL Feb 13 2008 00:55:35 [00:14] now, the following is a kick: [00:14] #ubuntu-offtopic emma LjL Feb 13 2008 00:32:47 [00:14] with reason: [00:15] Since #ubuntu-offtopic is not logged, where else can i find accurate information, than in the channel where the operators of that channel reside? [00:15] it's not a joke, we REALLY don't want politics talk here [00:15] picard_pwns_kirk: I think that the point is that you have'nt read *all* of the relevant logs [00:15] picard_pwns_kirk: Yes. Actually being involved. [00:15] I was kickbanned and these demands were placed on me directly because I have been vocal about the IRSeek policy (but not in #ubuntu, my comments have been in -offtopic) and I was kickbanned because I expressed my displeasure with IRSeek this last time. [00:16] tonyyarusso: who was in the channel at that time? [00:16] emma, or any story you can make up. my channel logs tell me differently. [00:16] all of the #ubuntu* channels fall under the CoC [00:16] LjL - yes that was the first time I was ever banned. That was actually a legitimate mistake on my part. At that time I was very much a noob to -offtopic and I think many people have been banned by you for making the mistake I made. It was all clarified. [00:16] emma: You have seen the list of conditions. We await your answer. Until you have one, you are wasting yet more of our time. I know that I for one don't have any more to waste, so ping me when you have that answer. [00:16] picard_pwns_kirk: you are talking about scores of "times". [00:16] emma, that's irrelevant. [00:16] [01:10:24] Was there a kick before that? [00:16] [01:10:40] picard_pwns_kirk: yes, there was. [00:16] * tonyyarusso goes back to paying attention to useful conversations [00:16] [01:13:15] LjL - No there was not [00:16] this is a lie. [00:16] i don't like lies. [00:17] LjL -- That was not a lie. I thought he was saying was there lots of kicks between the time you banned me (my first ever ban) and this last kickban. That's what I thought he was talking about. [00:17] that's not what i see him asking. [00:18] everything is open to interpretation [00:18] err, sure. [00:18] Then I mistook what he was saying. Yes you did kick me before you banned me, back in February, I was a complete -offtopic noob and rather new on IRC even for that matter. I have a much better sense of how things work now. [00:18] so now i can't answer your questions because they're open to interpretation, i suppose. [00:18] LjL: let's be professional [00:19] picard_pwns_kirk, i don't think i'm the one not being. [00:19] And until a few days ago when ops began asking me about my feelings about IRSeek, and I actually gave my feelings, there wasn't an issue. [00:19] From what I gather possibly dozens and dozens of people have been kicked and banned by you for talking about politics in -offtopic. [00:20] I was very much a noob and I really haven't talked about politics exhorbitantly (not more than everyone else) since you did that. [00:21] I feel that it is very accurate and fair to say that if I had not been kickbanned for saying that I have no problems with #ubuntu controlling users since it is a support channel, but I only don't like the slimy Israeli company IRSeek, then I would *not* be kickbanned and I would not be in here right now. [00:21] So *that* instance IS relevent and the JUSTICE of that kickban is extremely so. [00:22] emma: was it yesterday or the day before you insult the British in -offtopic? [00:22] insulted* [00:22] And that only begins to touch upon the reasonableness of imposing a draconian list of conditions that asks me to implicitly indict myself of things I've never done, and give up my fair use of unofficial Freenode channels. [00:23] emma: we're not asking you to do anything that we don't expect anyone else to do [00:23] Daviey - That was the day before, I think, and he was insulting me also. This was all on the same day. You have to understand that this whole conversation about surveillance and such, was not my conversation only. There were half a dozen people all talking to me. Also, I want to clarify with you, I NEVER attacked him personally. [00:24] I said that I thought it was a shame that the British allowed their country to become so monitored by police. [00:24] honestly, i don't think i'm willing to go over all this again, right now. i'm out [00:27] that, in my opinion is not an insult to the british [00:28] explain to me how it is [00:28] ...anyone? [00:29] emma: I don't know if you saw this, it was after you were no longer in the channel. The very end. http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/03/18/%23ubuntu-ops.html [00:32] how is her channel harmful to the community? [00:33] It does not seem to convey any negative ideas [00:37] her use of the "ubuntu" trademark is in agreement with the terms of the trademark policy [00:37] don't leave me hanging, people [00:38] you mean aside from having the "ubuntu" name in it while being definitely an unofficial channel, and really unrelated to ubuntu, where the CoC is not only not enforced but almost looks like actively frowned upon, a topic that talks "power-tripping ops", and i'd dare say actions against ubuntu channels being planned in it? [00:38] idle in the channel for a day [00:38] picard_pwns_kirk: We do. [00:38] We're well aware of the filth it contains. [00:38] and try to find any organized malicious activity planned [00:39] picard_pwns_kirk: one word: sudobash [00:39] he is a user, mentioned in the logs [00:39] picard_pwns_kirk: which logs? [00:40] http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/03/15/%23ubuntu-ops.html [00:40] those [00:40] what about his userness in ##ubuntu-uncensored? [00:40] that is not logged [00:40] no, it is not. [00:41] all right [00:41] #ubuntu-offtopic is not logged either [00:41] isn't the ubuntu "namespaced" owned by ubunut, and therefore comes under control of the ops? [00:41] the name "ubuntu" is a trademark of Canonical [00:42] Seeker`: http://freenode.net/policy.shtml#channelnaming [00:42] unless you guys work for canonical, you have no special say over this [00:42] picard_pwns_kirk, are you joking? [00:42] I am not [00:42] picard_pwns_kirk: I feel the need to point out yet again that terms for a resolution were discussed at great length yesterday. Until we have a yes or no answer from emma, this is just useless babble. [00:42] picard_pwns_kirk: I believe they were appointed by people from canonical [00:43] picard_pwns_kirk: http://freenode.net/primary_groups.shtml [00:44] canonical, ubuntu Canonical, Ltd., Douglas, Isle of Man, UK. [00:44] picard_pwns_kirk: what? [00:45] from the freenode site for primary groups [00:45] picard_pwns_kirk: what about it? [00:45] canonical has the right to "ubuntu" [00:45] tonyyarusso - You are aware of the filth it contains? You have been an active member of my channel. You have actually antagonized other members in my channel, called them fools and such. To say that my channel contains filth is very strange from an active member. [00:46] But indeed, no one stops you from doing that there. I expect you to control yourself. [00:46] picard_pwns_kirk: I fail to see the point you are trying to make [00:46] picard_pwns_kirk: you're certainly aware that we *are*, both for freenode and for the Ubuntu Community Council, the representatives of these channels namespace? [00:46] * tonyyarusso again goes back to doing more productive things than repeating himself [00:47] does it say that you have the power to deny people the right to use "ubuntu" in an unofficial channel name? [00:47] a right bestowed upon them by canonical? [00:47] picard_pwns_kirk: no. it doesn't say it can't kind of piss us off, either. [00:48] just because it pisses the ops off doesn't mean that it is not allowed [00:48] picard_pwns_kirk, and who said it's not allowed? [00:48] http://hobbsee.com/ubotu/emma_conditions [00:48] you did [00:48] picard_pwns_kirk, not that the channel originally had only one # (i.e. pretended to be a primary channel). [00:48] picard_pwns_kirk: fromhttp://freenode.net/policy.shtml#primarychannels: Primary channel name, formatted with a single leading hash mark (#), are reserved for participating groups and organizations based on their legal or informal claim to the associated name or name prefix. [00:49] "By registering such a channel, you indicate that you assert no legal or informal right to the channel name used" -< From the freenode guidelines - that states that you have no particular right to use the channel name [00:49] so why are we closing it down, if it is not a primary channel? [00:49] picard_pwns_kirk, we *can* se conditions for *our* channels, and those certainly include (for emma, and for everyone) NOT pointing unsolicitedly to random channels (which i tend to simply call "spamming", although that seems to be argued). [00:50] she could have kicked you and banned you for harrasing users of her channel [00:50] she could have kicked and banned users planning malicious behaviors against the ubuntu channels, too. [00:50] she can do basically whatever the heck she wants on her channel. [00:51] (not that there aren't some limits somewhere, but just saying) [00:51] I understand [00:51] I have *never* seen anyone planning malicious behavior against #ubuntu and if I did see that I would be *very* against that [00:51] stating an opinion != planning malicious behavior [00:52] You said you care about the truth, and I respect you for that. Because I do too. So please let's be true that I have NEVER condoned, or even seen, anyone threatening to hurt #ubuntu. [00:52] I LIKE #ubuntu. [00:52] The very comment that I was kickbanned for was a statement of this fact. [00:53] I was SAYING to the OPS who were engaging me and ASKING ME the questions, that I have no issue with #ubuntu being moderated since it is a support channel and must not become chaotic. [00:53] That is why I said in my next post.. [00:53] The ONLY thing I have against #ubuntu is that it allows that IRSeek corporation to sit in there. [00:54] I care about #ubuntu so much that in my OWN entry message, I warn people that my channel is not the best place to get support. And I suggest that they seek that in #ubuntu! [00:56] at least listen to us, people [00:57] I would even say, if this is your main concern, I would be willing to explicitly put a message in the channel that malicious behavior directed against other Freenode channels is prohibited. [00:57] * LjL chuckles [00:57] Although that is nothing that any other channel I've seen does. And I don't want to be held responsible or to blame for the actions of fools I don't control, anymore than you do. [00:57] I do not believe we are here for your amusement [00:59] well... [00:59] I digress [00:59] I am not wanted, and will leave [00:59] picard - Thank you for your comments, I think that you should not harm yourself for me, and my issues. [01:00] I think you should probably.. [01:00] peace out [01:23] * Hobbsee wonders what's happened now [01:24] nothing [01:24] in other news, my java plugin isn't working [01:30] emma: the rules for ops, and catalysers are different - see the section in freenode policy on catalysing. [01:37] oh you're fsking kidding me... [01:37] @btlogin [01:38] she made another comment about slimy israeli company, and then are surprised it got her banned, *again*? [01:40] !bots [01:40] Sorry, I don't know anything about bots - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi [01:40] !bot [01:40] I am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots [01:40] hm, picard is wrong, apparently [01:41] is there a policy on bots in #ubuntu* channels? [01:41] Seeker`: yes - don't bring any unless authorized by channel contacts [01:42] LjL: cool [01:42] LjL: Thanks [01:53] emma: so, can you explain about plumpypiggy? [01:54] he looked rather upset that he'd been poked about the channel repeatedly. [01:56] I do not know who plumpypiggy is. Can you help me out? [01:56] http://rafb.net/p/jB3ko450.html [01:57] that was in your channel ~11 hours ago. [01:57] first part, in particular [01:59] and that's a private log, so you can't reproduce it. [02:01] emma: [02:01] ? [02:01] damn enter key. [02:10] I don't know what reproducing it, means, I was at work 11 hours ago I think. I wasn't there. I don't know that person and I've never seen them before. [02:12] was in -uncensored, the channel you are the owner of. i thought you were supposed to have control of it. *shrugs* [02:13] Hobbsee - A fair point. Maybe the channel is actually large enough that I should put some one else on the access list. I'm an IRC rookie, and I always think of this little channel as insignificant. [02:13] But you make a valid point. [02:15] emma: of course, as to *why* you seem to draw so many users to ask in -offtopic, and -uncensored if you're a spammer is an interesting question. maybe you have the wrong definition of spam. [02:15] and cries to "leave them alone" [02:15] most channels, big or little, don't do that. [02:15] isn't that *interesting*? [02:47] @btlogin [03:15] !ops [03:15] Help! Channel emergency! (ONLY use this trigger in emergencies) - Mez, LjL, elkbuntu, imbrandon, DBO, gnomefreak, Hobbsee, rob, ompaul, Madpilot, Seveas, CarlK, crimsun, ajmitch, tritium, Nalioth, thoreauputic, apokryphos, tonyyarusso, PriceChild, Amaranth, jrib, jenda, nixternal, Myrtti, mneptok, Pici, Jack_Sparrow or nickrud! [03:15] emma called the ops in #ubuntu-ops () [03:15] wasabi? [03:16] yes? [03:17] I want to apologize to the ops for the times that I have been difficult. Some of my behavior has not been productive or even characteristic of my own ideal. I understand that ops are also human beings and I am sorry for bring any amount of distress to any of you. [04:30] aite tritium [04:30] You're going to have to use English, please. [04:30] ALL RIGHT [04:30] aite [04:31] = all right [04:31] No, it doesn't. [04:31] I'm not going to discuss your nonsense language with you. [04:31] Good night. [04:31] Hmmm... [04:31] Fine I will talk like this. Happy? [04:32] tritium, I am not leaving [04:32] until we are done discussing [04:33] Fine, stick around until I'm not busy. [04:33] err [04:34] I will be back in the morning [04:34] will you be here? [04:34] No, I have a job. [04:34] in about 10 hours or so [04:34] ah, I am a student on spring break [04:34] What time will you return. [04:34] Sometime tomorrow evening. [04:34] What would you like to discuss? [04:35] the code of conduct [04:35] would like to clarify that we both broke it tonite [04:36] No, you were kicked and then banned for specific reasons. [04:36] @btlogin [04:36] Ok, but i still would like to discuss it [04:36] Go ahead. [04:37] tomorrow evening.... [04:37] I am very tired [04:37] So am I. [04:37] and P/O [04:37] Look, it's quite simple. [04:37] I'll paste your offending comment that earned you your ban: [04:38] 22:26 < kumarphilly> but there is a @$$ named tritium ....and i didnt curse:-p [04:38] yes right there [04:38] those are symbols [04:38] they could mean nothing [04:38] Clearly translated to a foul name [04:38] no it didnt [04:38] No, nobody is that stupid. [04:38] tritium: what channel was this in? [04:38] #ubuntu [04:38] nalioth: #ubuntu [04:39] kumarphilly: it was off topic, never the less [04:39] kumarphilly: do not take me for a fool. [04:40] i am not [04:40] but look [04:40] You expect me to translate aite = All Right, but not translate @$$ to ass? Come on. Be reasonable. [04:40] a lot of people use @$$ or #!#@# to mean anything [04:41] kumarphilly: that argument has no substance [04:41] really, good night [04:41] aite to all right translates because A) its words and B) its shorthand accepted my many people... [04:41] nah [04:41] A) is false. aite is not a word [04:42] kumarphilly: the ban will stay in place at least 24h, is there anything else we can help you with? [04:42] tritium, so you NEVER use shorthand? [04:42] kumarphilly: no [04:42] hmm [04:42] kumarphilly: I can type. [04:42] jimmygoon: may we be of service? [04:42] nalioth, nope, my apologies. I will leave. [04:42] 24th eh... [04:43] thats a monday [04:43] kumarphilly: 24 HOURS ( at least ) [04:43] im suppose to be installing apache and stuff tomarow....on new server.... [04:43] oh... [04:43] max ? [04:43] Nothing is preventing you from installing. [04:43] Maximum I should say.... [04:44] Yes but I needed some help with apache and stuff [04:44] kumarphilly: most bans last 24h or less [04:44] kumarphilly: the time depends lots of things [04:44] is there anything else we can help you with? [04:44] Nah [04:44] **no... [04:44] nothing else.. [04:45] kumarphilly: /topic :) [04:45] reserve the right to remove idles [04:45] i cannot stick around if i have any more questions? [04:48] wat was that? [04:49] kumarphilly: that was you leaving [04:56] I lifted the ban. He was very reasonable in /query. [04:58] :) [05:00] I guess some people just have bad days. [05:41] reza_20 is kinda being very offtopic and not very family freindly with his chatter, keep an eye out maybe in the future? [06:22] !ping [06:22] oops [06:25] bad Jucato :P [06:25] * Hobbsee wonders where ubotu went [06:25] yeah I wonder as well. made ubotwo go to #k... but didn't know stdin had it muted :) [06:26] ubotwo: join #ubuntu [06:26] ubotwo: join #ubuntu-offtopic [06:26] ubotwo: join #ubuntu-desktop [06:26] aww [06:27] doesn't matter, no one active there for a couple more hours [06:27] ubotwo: join #ubuntu-offtopic [06:27] ubotwo: join #ubuntu-desktop [06:27] bah [06:28] it joined #ubuntu, but ... [06:30] maybe it's banned from the other channels? O.o [06:31] there we are [06:31] where else? [06:32] ...george? [06:32] what's seveas' bot doing on there? [06:32] Amaranth: ah, that's why it won't join then [06:33] should really grab a cloak for that bot. oh well. [06:33] mutually exclusive? [06:33] i think so [06:34] * Hobbsee just hijacked priceybot [06:36] floodbots are up. good. [06:46] is there anything relevant in the backlog from the past nine hours that I should be aware of? [06:47] Myrtti: not really... [06:47] unless you count Hobbsee conversing with emma "relevant" :D [06:48] yeah, and then nalioth's suddenly gone and given hre access agian. [06:48] eeek scary [06:50] Myrtti: You'll be better off if you go rent a movie instead. === elkbuntu_ is now known as elkbuntu [06:51] tonyyarusso: ok, so it's breakfast time and a quick browse thru the Intterhweb for me [06:52] yupyup [07:06] Myrtti: you are irc addicted, checking email over breakfast... oh crap, what am I doing? :P [07:07] gotcha [07:07] it's the joys of working from home [07:07] hehe [07:07] * jussio1 is about to go to work... [07:08] jussio1: I don't check mails and feeds and IRC before breakfast... I usually do that after getting up from bed (eyes half closed) [07:10] Jucato: me too! [07:10] :D [07:25] Jucato: :D yeah, I do too. I was just having a go :P [07:48] !staff [07:49] !staff [07:50] ...there's no response.. [07:50] yeah, i know. brilliant, isnt it? [07:51] !ping [07:51] ping yourself ;-) really the diodes all down my left side are sore [07:51] !staff [07:51] Hey nalioth, jenda, rob, SportChick, seanw, Dave2, Christel or Gary, I could use a bit of your time :) [07:52] will one of you please issue a /cs level #ubuntu-motu reset and make me the alternate channel contact please? [07:52] i'm sure elkbuntu will be happy to ack the request, being a GC. [07:52] kyro_ issued !ops on #ubuntu but ubotwo didn't relay here [07:54] ubotu's died again? [07:55] :) [07:55] :( [07:55] asjhsdddahkg [07:56] gah, sorry everybody, ssh connection seemed to have frozen... oh wait, was my cat... [07:57] PriceChild: yeah, yours is acting as ubotu [08:03] Hobbsee, ack [08:03] elkbuntu: hm? [08:04] i'm sure elkbuntu will be happy to ack the request, being a GC. [08:05] elkbuntu: ah, right. i thought you meant "ack" as in "argh! something bad! [08:12] hmmm, where is ubotu? it is fine in #u? [08:12] it's a replacement ubotu [08:13] it does not have all functions [08:14] ok, can we at least get it identified so it can pm? [08:15] i don't know how to [08:16] i don't have the p/ws [08:16] if you have control over ljl's bot, you cna use that instead [08:16] Hobbsee: aye [08:16] Hobbsee: can you test me please [08:17] [16:12] [Whois] ubotwo is an identified user. [08:17] Jucato: its not ubotwo its ubotu [08:17] oh [08:17] Hello [08:17] hi jescis [08:18] there we are [08:18] everyone I need to run, could someone explain to jescis why we dont use profanity in #ubuntu :) [08:18] now, if you manage to get the real ubotu back, you can use that. [08:21] I mean on the radio, tv, and recordings I have a problem with profanity. But not everyone is a 15 yo sitting in his/her parents house [08:21] jescis: we would like all Ubuntu related channels to be family-friendly, since we've got quite young users [08:21] it's also a sign of respect towards each other not to use profanity [08:22] hardly any issue in Ubuntuland is worth swearing [08:22] atleast it shouldn't be [08:24] well some time something goes wrong and people use some words that are profane. But are not considered profane by most. [08:25] yes? [08:27] your reasoning doesn't overrule the facts that there are set guidelines in Ubuntuland IRC which includes "no profanity" [08:27] jescis: have you read the !guidelines? [08:27] I don't even read the eula. [08:28] !guidelines | jescis, well, I suggest you read these [08:28] jescis, well, I suggest you read these: The people here are volunteers, your attitude should reflect that. Answers are not always available. See http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines [08:28] Gah, im back. hate it when $reallife interupts me. [08:28] jescis: did that make it clear to you? is there anything else we can help with? [08:29] * jussi01 cries at the lag [08:30] I don't mind a clean environment. But this is like being on #disney [08:31] with a "G" MPAA rating [08:31] !coc | jescis [08:31] jescis: The Ubuntu Code of Conduct to which we ask all Ubuntu users to adhere can be found at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct/ [08:32] But the world is PG-13 or even R at alot of places. [08:32] jescis: you know, there is a preamble in the EULA's you haven't read [08:32] this is not one of those placed [08:32] places* [08:33] the bottom line is that we have channel rules and rules of conduct. please abide by them [08:33] jescis: the guidelines say be respectful, and use your common sense. Tbh that's about it... go read them. [08:33] I obay the rules any where. even if I never read them. [08:33] jescis: "by opening the package and using the product, you've agreed to the following End User Licence Agreement" [08:34] But I'm only human and will slip once in a while. [08:34] sure, so now you've been told why it's not ok to use profanity in #ubuntu IRC channel(s)? [08:34] did you understand the rules and the guidelines, and did you read the CoC? [08:35] yeah, clean "G" rated for the whole family. [08:35] thank you. [08:35] from world war 2 veterans to toddlers [08:38] I'm not saying I try/tried to disobay the rules. I'm just not going to want to be kicked for something so trivial imo. That I do obay the rules. [08:41] btw I have a channel of my own. and there I've said many times I promote piracy(especially from microsoft, MPAA and RIAA) [08:41] don't advertise that in the Ubuntu channels :) [08:42] lol [08:42] !piracy [08:42] piracy discussion and other questionably legal practices are not welcome in the Ubuntu channels. Please take this discussion elsewhere or abstain from it altogether. This includes linking to pirated software, music and video. Also see !guidelines and !o4o [08:42] I really don't care. they're like windoze bloated mess of junk [08:43] jescis, we dont accept any attacks on people or companies in our channels [08:43]