nixternalRiddell: yes I am doing release notes00:00
nixternalI have to tweak my screenshots and then upload them, and that will be that00:01
nixternalI kind of changed the way I did release notes this route, so take a look at them and let me know what you think00:01
Riddellyuriy: so get it packaged and we can add it easily enough00:01
blueyedapachelogger_: have you packaged gtk-qt-engine already?00:02
blueyedjust installed?00:02
apachelogger_blueyed: you did package it?00:03
yuriyare you talking about the same things?00:03
dasKreechKDE 4.1 alpha and Hardy relelase are not the same week they are 5 days apart00:03
blueyedCan you look at it maybe? I've tried it, but build fails..00:03
apachelogger_just wanted to suggest that :P00:03
blueyedapachelogger_: great!00:03
yuriyapachelogger_, blueyed: http://gtk-qt.ecs.soton.ac.uk/index.php and http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/gtk-kde4?content=74689 i mean00:04
yuriyi was talking about the former00:04
blueyedyuriy: yep, that's the one I've tried (and uscan pulled in)00:05
apachelogger_yuriy: http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/GTK-QT+Theme+Engine?content=971400:05
apachelogger_so we were talking about the same :P00:05
apachelogger_blueyed: do you have the packaging uploades somewhere?00:06
blueyedapachelogger_: not yet, but will do so now..00:06
dasKreech858479\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\+ f500:07
dasKreechsorry my dog wanted to join in00:08
dasKreechRiddell: were 4.1 alpha packages planned anyway?00:08
blueyedapachelogger_: http://www.codeprobe.de/spool/debian/gtk-qt-engine_1.1-0ubuntu1.dsc - but it may be in very bad shape.. ;)00:14
apachelogger_blueyed: what problems did you have?00:18
dasKreechRiddell: For hardy of course00:19
blueyedapachelogger_: build failure.. something undefined IIRC, see http://www.codeprobe.de/spool/debian/gtk-qt-engine-build.log00:20
blueyedcouldn't find ui_searchpaths.h for some reason..00:20
apachelogger_upstream issue00:21
apachelogger_apparently it doesn't support out-of-source-builds00:21
* apachelogger_ diggs into the cmake files00:21
=== Czessi is now known as Czessi_
=== Czessi_ is now known as Czessi
=== ianmcorvidae|alt is now known as ianmcorvidae
=== thekorn_ is now known as thekorn
=== \sh_away is now known as \sh
=== \sh is now known as \sh_away
=== \sh_away is now known as \sh
=== mrevell is now known as mrevell-lunch
Hobbseehi seb12813:53
pittibonjour mes amis13:55
Keybukbonjour, ça va?13:55
MacSlowMahlzeit allerseits!13:55
pedro_porque no hablar en español mejor?13:56
seb128pitti: bonjour ;-)13:56
MacSlowpedro_, pure coincidence?! :)13:57
pedro_MacSlow: seems so ;-)13:58
* mvo waves13:59
seb128hey mvo13:59
pedro_hello mvo14:00
seb128hey Hobbsee14:00
KeybukRiddell: awake?14:00
MacSlowhey seb128, kwwii, Riddell14:01
* seele waves14:01
Keybuklet's begin14:01
tedgGood $(time of day in your timezone) everyone.14:01
mvohey everybody! I will be on vacation next week, if there is anything urgent, please call my landline (or mobile)14:01
KeybukI'll also be on holiday next week, anything urgent, please talk to pitti or mdz14:02
seb128tomorrow and monday are local and national holidaus14:02
pittimine too14:02
pedro_tomorrow is also holiday here14:02
seb128Keybuk: no catchup calls then I expect?14:02
pittiwe're all slackers :)14:02
kwwiifri and mon here as well14:02
* Riddell working tomorrow14:03
KeybukRiddell: oh?14:03
MacSlowindeed... but I skip those very likely... got some catchup to do due to cebit and gtk+-hackfest :/14:03
seeletomorrow is a holiday?14:03
RiddellKeybuk: I took jan 2nd off14:03
* MacSlow should not have started the hardy-upgrade of his desktop an hour ago14:04
MacSlowif I suddenly vanish you can guess why :)14:04
Keybukok, onwards14:04
Keybukseb128: I turned one of your activity report notes into an agenda item14:05
Keybuk(seb128) There is still quite some desktop glitches and annoyance but no real stopper, help to fix desktop milestoned bugs is welcome14:05
Keybukbugs are important :-)14:05
Keybukwe're actually in pretty good shape as a team, but we could always do better14:05
Keybukwho'd like to volunteer to help out?14:05
MacSlowI assume not working effects-profile-recognition is one of them14:05
MacSlowbut I'm on that whole issue anyway14:06
pittiwell, shouldn't we all? :)14:06
pittiI still have quite a bunch of bugs 'in progress', but I'm happy to help out with important ones14:06
Keybukpitti: kwwii isn't great at udev issues14:06
MacSlowkwwii, btw... were you able to work on the second (scale) icon?14:07
Keybukand I've stolen MacSlow for other duties14:07
seb128Keybuk: speaking about udev... ;-)14:07
kwwiiMacSlow: yeah, I'll get that to you soon, still not quite happy with it14:07
Keybukbut otherwise I'm happy if you want to assign bugs to people seb128 and nag them about it14:07
MacSlowkwwii, ok14:07
Keybukseb128: it's damned hard to fix that bug - I've fixed it for people doing gutsy->hardy14:07
Keybukbut for people who actually got hit during an upgrade through hardy, it's hard to fix14:08
kwwiiudev is certainly not my forte :-)14:08
seb128Keybuk: ok14:08
Keybuksince the vital information gets lost14:08
Keybuk(and I've fixed it for fresh hardy installs)14:08
seb128if people want to look to the desktop bugs issue I've noted, I use the desktop-bugs team as assignee and milestone those ubuntu-8.0414:08
mvoI will post upgrade issue bugs and milestone them for 8.0414:08
Keybukseb128: are there any that you think particular people would be good at?14:09
pittiseb128: feel free to assing some to me if you want help with them (and which I can actually help with :) )14:09
seb128Keybuk: there is some compiz integration issue where mvo or MacSlow could help I guess, and pitti is likely good for gvfs, hal, etc issues ;-)14:09
seb128pitti: ok, noted, thanks14:09
Keybukseb128: wrt to Compiz, I am hopeful that I'll have approval today for a short-term contract with one of the upstream guys14:10
Keybuksimilar to what we've done with Gicmo14:10
pittiright, I'm currently concentrating on hal issues since there are still quite some hw specific issues I'd like to see fixed14:10
seb128Keybuk: ah, that's good news14:10
pittiseb128: gvfs sounds good to me14:10
seb128pitti: we already have gicmo helping on gvfs so there is not too much to do but I might ping you on some of the remaining integration bit with nautilus, gvm, etc14:10
seb128well, there is lot to do14:11
MacSlowbtw... having a new/default use also be part of group "disk", what package would that end up in?14:11
pittiseb128: (like the floppy b0rkage)14:11
KeybukMacSlow: they shouldn't be14:11
seb128but having gicmo is already good help there ;-)14:11
pittiMacSlow: argh, ho14:11
pittino, I mean14:11
KeybukMacSlow: disk is a scary group14:11
pittidisk == root14:11
MacSlowbut then /dev/raw1394 needs some other ownership14:11
MacSlowbecause without that firewire-capture from a DV-cam in kino does not work14:12
pittiMacSlow: no, it shouldn't be accessible for users14:12
pittiwe had that discussion years ago14:12
MacSlowI see14:12
KeybukMacSlow: no, the kernel's ieee1394 subsystem needs a kicking14:12
MacSlowok well14:12
pitti/dev/video1394 should be fixed to do what app devs want14:12
Keybukfirewire devices can execute code on the host processor14:12
Keybukso raw access to all firewire devices as any user means you have root14:13
Keybukanyway, topic14:13
KeybukACTION: seb128 to hand out desktop team bugs to people as necessary14:13
KeybukACTION: Keybuk to get contract for compiz bugs sorted14:13
KeybukACTION: pitti, mvo, tedg to assist with desktop bugs14:14
* seb128 likes those action items ;-)14:14
mvoI will do my best - I'm also looking into upgrade issues currently14:14
pittiseb128: bug fix slave at your service!14:14
* pitti salutes14:15
* seb128 hugs mvo pitti14:15
Keybukok, next one14:15
Keybuk(seb128) There has been some discussion about menus, non-consistent labeling (using the application name or not in the title) and system, preferences going over the bottom panel on a 1027x768 screen (maybe we should consider moving things to the applications, system tools category, we tried to not list it because it's confusing but you quickly get one anyway when installing extra softwares)14:15
pittiseb128: I dont' quite understand how system-tools moving helps with preferences14:16
pittithey are in admin14:16
pittiand preferences >> admin14:16
pittiI do agree, though, that the prefs menu is horrible14:17
pittitakes ages to find something there14:17
seb128pitti: well, there is different issues there14:17
seb128- inconsistant labelling14:17
seb128- system tools which comes back quickly, not sure if that's worth trying to mask it in the default installation14:17
seb128- and preferences which has too many items (that one has been discussed several times at UDS without any obvious solution)14:18
seb128about the first one14:18
=== mrevell-lunch is now known as mrevell
seb128I know it's late now, but it worth trying to fix the consistency now?14:18
pittiah, you mean apps -> system tools, not gnome-system-tools, sorry14:18
Keybukthere's been a long thread about this on devel-discuss recently14:19
seb128I know we had jane reviewing those before dapper and we did some cleanup by then14:19
Keybukdid that come to any useful conclusions?14:19
seb128Keybuk: not really no14:19
=== Mithrand1r is now known as Mithrandir
seb128the discussion was not really focussed14:19
seb128rather lot of ideas from different users14:20
seb128nothing new nor really useful though14:20
Keybukdo you have any ideas? :)14:20
seb128as said there is different points there14:21
seb128let's tackle the first one which should be easy14:21
mvois your suggestion to break the UI freeze and relabel them?14:21
seb128do we want to have a review and fix labels to be consistent now?14:21
seb128or is it late?14:21
seb128mvo: yes, we have things like "transmission" which give no indication of what the thing is doing14:21
pittitricky for translations, but since we can clean them up step by step, it would be nice to do it14:22
Keybuktranslators also have some grace this time in the form of 8.04.114:22
pittiI don't think that the default install is that bad, maybe three or four things which really need improvement?14:22
seb128pitti: right14:22
seb128one of the issues users had is "Video Player" against "Rhythmbox Music Player"14:22
pittiseb128: indeed, transmission is the only one which really sticks out14:23
seb128ie, some items have software names, some other don't14:23
pittiseb128: tools doesn't have any app names, but at least consistently14:23
pittiand they don't really have names14:23
pittibut within a menu it should be consistent, yes14:23
pittiseb128: the vnc viewer thingy, that's vino or so, right?14:24
pittiit shuold get a name, too, perhaps?14:24
pittithat, and transmission, and the net menu would be fine14:24
kwwiidid someone say viagra?14:24
pittiseb128: system tools> could we add the gnome system monitor and thus make it a little less hilarious?14:24
pittithen there are at least two things inside, and I don't think we can permanently ban the menu anyway14:25
Keybukpitti: isn't that under System->Admin at the moment?14:25
* pitti has 4 items in apps -> system tools14:25
seb128pitti: well, that was my second point, either we still try to mask it in the default install or not14:25
pittiKeybuk: no, AFAIK it's just an applet you can add?14:25
=== cjwatson_ is now known as cjwatson
seb128I think it's pointless14:25
pittiseb128: I agree14:25
seb128as soon as you install vmware, virt-manager, etc you get it back anyway14:25
seb128and it looks stupid because there is only one or two items there14:26
pittiand I don't really see where else to put hwtest14:26
pittiand gnome-system-monitor is really useful IMHO14:26
pittiif nothing else, it gives you some system/ram info for bug reports14:26
pittibut you can kill runaway processes, etc.14:26
seb128- let's fix the labelling of the menu items which are not right and warn translators about the change14:26
seb128- and let's use applications, system tools again14:26
seb128anybody against that?14:27
Keybukseems fine to me14:27
seb128ok, preferences menu having too many items is not something we will fix this cycle14:27
seb128we should consider switching to gnome-control-center shell or something at some point14:27
seb128but that's later material14:27
MacSlowseb128, indeed14:27
pittiit's a small point, but we could remove the network manager editor14:27
seb128pitti: yeah, I want to have the menu fitting on 1024x768, so I'll make sure we drop one item from the list or move it somewhere else14:28
pittiah, if one is enough, then IMHO we should kill nm-editor14:28
seb128Keybuk: we are done with this one, thanks, you can move to next item ;-)14:28
pittiyou can get the same from the nm-applet14:28
pittiand it's ominous enough anyway14:28
seb128pitti: right, asac didn't disagree to that and I milestoned the bug14:29
Keybukok :)14:29
Keybuksounds like you're agreed14:29
Keybuk(pitti) solving bug #198808; in essence: do we rather (potentially) break suspend/resume on some machines which worked with gusty, or don't fix it for a lot of current popular and any future hardware?14:29
ubotuLaunchpad bug 198808 in hal "[Hardy] HAL breaks pm-utils quirks and resuming" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19880814:29
seb128pitti: I'm not sure to understand why we change the behaviour over upstream14:29
tedgYeah, that one is odd.  Did you find out why the logic was reversed?14:29
seb128but I think it would make relation with upstream, etc easier to no diverge14:29
Keybukpitti: what does the patch do?14:30
pittiright, I'm currently discussing this with mjg59, but I'm still not 100% clear why we need this silly patch14:31
pittiin short, hal has a patch which effectively reverses the default quirks we use for suspend/resume14:31
pittii. e. if we don't have an explicit FDI rule for a particular laptop, upstream assumes 'no quirks'14:31
pittiwhile our patch from mjg59 assumes 'all quirks'14:31
pittibut a lot of machines break if you actually use 'all quirks'14:31
pittithe rationale, as given by mjg59, was to maintain behavioural compatibility to what acpi-support did in previous releases14:31
pittiseb128: exactly my point14:31
pittisince with that, we break current and future models14:31
pitti-[ "$HAL_PROP_POWER_MANAGEMENT_QUIRK_DPMS_ON" = "true" ] && QUIRKS="$QUIRKS --quirk-dpms-on"14:31
pitti+[ "$HAL_PROP_POWER_MANAGEMENT_QUIRK_DPMS_ON" != "false" ] && QUIRKS="$QUIRKS --quirk-dpms-on"14:31
Keybukpitti: do we have any data on whether things are better with or without the patch?14:31
pitti^ like that, for all existing quirks14:32
pittii. e. if $VAR is empty, it defaults to 'use quirk'14:32
pittiKeybuk: I don't at least14:32
seb128well, the rest of the world is improving quirks14:32
seb128I really think we should work in this direction with them14:32
pittiI wish this would have come to me much earlier14:32
Keybukpitti: does your laptop work without the patch? :)14:32
pittithen I would have reverted it immediately and sorted out the remaining problematic models with positive quirks14:33
pittiKeybuk: haven't even tried yet (discussion started yesterday, too much CD testing to do, sorry)14:33
tedgThe only thing is I think we should leave it in for LTS and then change it early in Intrepid.14:33
seb128I don't think we should14:34
tedgIt's a pretty big change for lots of folks.14:34
seb128other distros are using the upstream things and are not known to be buggier than ubuntu afaik14:34
pittiTBH I think that patch was an absolutely wrong idea in the first place14:34
pittibut it wasn't documented, so I never investigated until I saw that bug14:34
pittiand it already causes lots of bugs with hardware we have today14:35
pittiso it's a bit like 'damned if yuo do, damned if you don't"14:35
Keybukremoving that patch makes suspend and resume work for me again14:35
Keybuk(they've been broken for a while in hardy)14:35
Keybuklike, actually, *really* well14:35
KeybukI'd be inclined to remove the patch for 8.04 and put it back for 8.04.1 if things really go bad14:35
pittiKeybuk: with the patch it works on mine, except that STD causes the VTs to break14:35
Keybuk(or work with upstream to fix the things broken)14:35
pittiKeybuk: I'd rather stuff new FDIs into -updates TBH14:36
pittifor particular modesl14:36
Keybukpitti: with patch on mine, compiz crashes on resume, keyboard often fails, and VTs don't switch14:36
seb128I would be in favor of dropping it now14:36
Keybukwithout the patch, I just did 5 cycles without problem14:36
seb128we still have some weeks until 8.0414:36
seb128and we can revert if we get really bad feedback14:36
pittiI feel the same actually14:37
MacSlowsorry... that upgrade didn't work out as planned14:37
pittibut really, that patch is a PITA to maintain (not the patch itself, of course, but the consequences)14:37
pittiMacSlow: n-m restarting? :-)14:37
Keybukagree; without the patch, putting quirks back where needed is a simple matter of FDI14:37
pitti^ and absolutely appropriate for SRU, too14:38
pittisince it selects precise HW models14:38
pittiand hal-info is no code at all14:38
pittibut there is no chance we can revert the patch post-release14:38
KeybukACTION: pitti to remove the patch and keep an eye on incoming bugs to identify needed quirks14:38
pittisince then we'd break stable installs14:38
MacSlowpartly... and using a trackpoint-mouse for more than two weeks did strange things to my hand-eye coordination using a normal mouse... thus hitting the reboot button although I "aimed" for the cancel-button14:38
* pitti bounces14:39
KeybukMacSlow: so not a _software_ bug then? :)14:39
Keybukthough I'm sure mpt would say one button should be bigger14:39
pittiHW usability bug14:39
Keybuknext item14:40
mvoMacSlow: no other issues during the upgrade? that is good14:40
MacSlowhm... gtk-window-decorator looks odd14:40
Keybukseb128: bug #191451 seems to have your name against it for no easily discernible reason14:40
ubotuLaunchpad bug 191451 in m17n-db "Bad default choices for Vietnamese installation" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19145114:40
MacSlowbut I don't want to rule out me using nvidia's 169.12 driver here on my desktop box14:40
seb128Keybuk: it has a gtk task14:40
Keybukseb128: is there something there you can do?14:41
Keybukseb128: it says Declined for Hardy14:41
seb128Keybuk: I'm waiting for a reply to my mail14:41
seb128Keybuk: the guy mailed me with explanations about the change14:41
seb128that's basically a one liner change to gtk14:41
* Keybuk sets it to Incomplete14:41
Keybukseb128, Riddell: bug #15971214:42
ubotuLaunchpad bug 159712 in serpentine "kde menu entry for 'Serpentine Audio CD Creator' has no icon" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15971214:42
seb128I just want to know if that makes sense for debian so we can get it there and sync or if that's just a quick hack for hardy14:42
seb128Keybuk: this bug should not be on the list and serpentine is universe now anyway14:42
Keybukcan you unsubscribe the sponsors team14:43
seb128Keybuk: it's supperseded by bug #19927714:43
ubotuLaunchpad bug 199277 in serpentine "[needs-merge] serpentine_0.9-2 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19927714:43
seb128Keybuk: done, and I've subscribed the universe sponsors14:43
Keybukmvo: bug #104553 - this doesn't seem to have an attached patch?14:43
ubotuLaunchpad bug 104553 in fontconfig "upgrade failed when fontconfig cache dirs are newer than system date" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/10455314:43
mvoKeybuk: it has a patch, but the patch is more a hack - I would rather want to see it fixed in fontconfig14:44
Keybukok, not suitable for sponsoring then14:44
mvoit is claimed to be fixed there, but I haven't managed to reproduce it yet14:44
Keybukcan you unsubscribe the team, and turn off the patch checkbox for the patch14:44
mvo(even with a old version)14:44
Keybukmvo: bug #87914 has a patch :-)14:45
ubotuLaunchpad bug 87914 in update-manager "Progress bar refers to "1 minutes" or "1 hours"" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/8791414:45
mvoKeybuk: tricky to write a good ngettext() thing for this, I don't think the patch is quite there yet14:45
Keybukok, unsubscribe the sponsors team and uncheck the patch checkbox14:46
mvowill do14:46
Keybuk(with anything on Daniel's list, if it can't be fixed by an immediate upload - it should not be on the list14:46
Keybukthe entire point is that these are known good patches that just need uploading14:46
MacSlowmvo, sofar only gtk-window-decorator gives my issues here14:46
Keybukif the patch isn't right, always unsubscribe the team and unmark it as a patch14:46
Keybukthat way someone else won't upload it later)14:47
Keybukqa bug list14:48
Keybukdoesn't look like there's anything new there to me14:48
pittihas it actually been updated since two weeks ago?14:49
Keybukit claims to be updated14:49
pedro_yes it's updated14:49
Keybukthe status are all correct fwict14:49
mvoI think I read it in the activity report that it got updated14:49
pedro_now there's less than last weeks14:49
Keybukpedro_: it'd be nice if it were obvious which were newly added14:50
Keybuk(or if none were)14:50
Keybukanything from activity reports need discussing?14:50
Keybukor any other business?14:50
* pitti hides an Easter egg14:51
pedro_Keybuk: ok i'll talk with leann about it14:51
* kwwii goes back to work on gdm14:51
MacSlowkwwii, btw... the new gdm-theme is nice14:51
* Keybuk heard kwwii's laugh of despair from here14:51
kwwiiMacSlow: thanks14:52
MacSlowKeybuk, kwwii: why... was the current gdm-theme any "battle"? :)14:52
pittiKeybuk: enjoy your holiday next week!14:52
KeybukMacSlow: I was up until 2am last night "discussing" it with Mark14:52
MacSlowKeybuk, sweet14:53
=== dholbach_ is now known as dholbach
KeybukMacSlow: not so much14:53
MacSlowKeybuk, kwwii: the "light from below"-look is cool there14:53
kwwiiMacSlow: well, wait and see what we end up with, then tell me you love it :p14:54
seb128speaking about themes, what gtk is going to be used in hardy?14:54
Keybukseb128: ubuntu-looks14:54
seb128gtk one14:54
kwwiiseb128: ubuntulooks14:54
MacSlowokyday... I'll hold my breath14:54
MacSlowkwwii, but it's murrine-based still, right?14:55
kwwiiseb128: we will look into changing it for +1 again14:55
kwwiiMacSlow: actually ubuntulooks is a fork of an older version of clearlooks14:55
Keybukthanks all14:57
seb128thank you Keybuk14:57
mvothanks Keybuk14:57
kwwiithanks, bye14:58
pittithanks all14:58
* MacSlow goes and tries to get his prism54-based wifi-nic to work again after the upgrade15:02
=== Rinchen` is now known as Rinchen
=== \sh is now known as \sh_away
=== thekorn_ is now known as thekorn
=== lamont` is now known as lamont
=== Czessi_ is now known as Czessi
=== ianmcorvidae|alt is now known as ianmcorvidae
=== Czessi is now known as Czessi__
=== Czessi__ is now known as Czessi_
=== Czessi_ is now known as Czessi
=== Czessi is now known as czessi_
=== czessi_ is now known as Czessi__
=== Czessi__ is now known as Czessi_
=== Czessi_ is now known as Czessi__
=== Czessi-m is now known as Czessi-m_
=== Czessi-m_ is now known as Czessi-m__
=== Czessi__ is now known as Czessi
=== Czessi-m__ is now known as Czessi-m

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!