dholbachgood morning06:07
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=== \sh is now known as \sh_away
=== \sh_away is now known as \sh
=== Mithrand1r is now known as Mithrandir
\shlool: ping claws-mail: I just need to test it still for building on lpia and see if it's starting up with the ubuntu-mobile environment ... you don#t need to do anything...uploading will be done hopefully tonight :) 14:34
=== dholbach_ is now known as dholbach
cgreganlool: ping15:09
lool\sh: Cool!15:13
lool\sh: Also, you might want to talk with agoliveira (Adilson) when he's around, he's the one working on this port for us15:13
lool\sh: bfiller from MSG team was also highly interested :)15:14
lool\sh: ("MSG" => Canonical Mobile Solution Group)15:14
loolbfiller: ^15:14
loolbfiller: \sh has been reviewing, porting, and soon will be uploading claws-mail's hildon patch15:14
loolbfiller: (he updated claws to 3.3.1)15:15
bfillerlool: great, thanks for the update15:15
loolcgregan: pongt15:15
loolcgregan: suggestion: group your ping with a question to allow me to attach an answer to the pong)15:15
loolor to the pongt15:16
\shlool: I documented everything in the bugreport :)15:16
lool\sh: Excellent, thanks again15:16
loolasac: http://blog.mozilla.com/blassey/2008/03/17/maemo-buildbot/15:16
cgreganlool: got it..thanks....is there an iso image for the latest release of ubuntu-mobile that I can use to boot a VM. LIW mentioned15:16
loolasac: Some recent efforts to build xulrunner for maemo :)15:17
loolasac: The hard part is probably the arm port for these folks though15:17
loolcgregan: We don't have ISO images15:17
asaclool: yes. at least debian can benefit of this i guess15:17
loolcgregan: Latest MIC might be able to generate some, but we don't build dailies15:17
loolcgregan: The reason there's no big need for them is that the devices don't have CD-ROM usually, but they do have USB ports15:18
loolcgregan: So it's easier for us to boot on USB15:18
cgreganlool: thanks...I will check moblin.15:18
loolcgregan: This is in the mail I sent you though15:18
cgreganlool: yes...VM/qemu does not like USB as far as I can see15:19
loolcgregan: Our dailies are at cdimages.u.c though, not at moblin15:19
loolmoblin is the upstream of the projects we package15:19
asaclool: we should entangle with them if we need features for xulrunner in the code base.15:19
loolasac: them == ?15:19
loolmaemo folks?15:19
cgreganlool: correct...actually trying to VM menlow15:20
loolcgregan: Have fun15:20
cgreganlool: hehe15:20
loolnot even sarcastic!15:20
mjg59asac: Who was handling the xulrunner stuff for Nokia?15:20
mjg59asac: (You know that all their GTK people are leaving next week, right?)15:20
asactimeless is working for them as far as i know15:21
loolmjg59: Terrible news :-(15:21
asacnot sure if he works on xul specifically15:21
cgreganlool: thanks...I told liw I would keep him in the loop, do you want a digest of my findings as well?15:21
asacmjg59: nokias gtk people ... wow.15:21
loolcgregan: I certainly do; as I wrote in my email ;)15:21
mjg59asac: I think there's a couple of managers left, but as far as I know all the coders are leaving15:22
asacmjg59: any destination or just walking away?15:22
mjg59asac: I think they're going to the same place, but I don't know where15:22
=== amitk_ is now known as amitk
GrueMasterOther than the XWindows configuration and drivers, what are the differences between Mccaslin and Menlow images?  I'm asking because I'm getting a development system for home in the next couple of weeks, and will be using a mccaslin image for it, but want the latest apps as well.15:53
nrpcjb: is it devel@lists.laptop.org15:57
nrperr, wrong chan15:57
bspencerno adilson...16:21
bspencerlool: ping?16:21
loolbspencer: pong16:21
loolbspencer: Adilson is more or less around, he just came back from Bossa16:21
bspencerhorace and I were trying to make small patches for galculator and mousepad (notepad)16:22
bspencerwe didn't see these in bzr.16:22
bspencerdo we just add our patches to PPA only16:22
agoliveirabspencer: Hi. Looking for me?16:22
bspencerand not worry about bzr repo?16:22
bspenceragoliveira: wow, what response!16:22
bspencerjust a quick Q about galculator and notes16:23
agoliveirabspencer: lool was vigilant. I was around, just forgot to join here.16:23
bspencerwe have a couple small patches to galculator.  We can add these as patch files to hardy ppa on top of your source16:23
loolbspencer: Sure; either file patches against hardy proper or upload to the ppa or both :)16:23
agoliveirabspencer: The right way is to open a bug.16:23
bspencerthe Q was if we need to add these changes to the bzr repo.   But there doesn't seem to be one for galculator or mousepad16:23
loolbspencer: or upstream :)16:23
loolbspencer: We bzr-imported maemo stuff, and only that AFAIK16:24
loolbspencer: We could do the same for more projects16:24
loolWe didn't do this for galculator though16:24
bspencerlool: ok.  So ppa patches, and upstream.  We'll do it in that order.16:24
agoliveirabspencer: Well, lool can answer that better than I but he's correct.16:24
bspencercool, got it16:24
loolbspencer: IMO it's best to push it upstream first; but to get packages the soonest, you need to go to the ppa step :)16:25
bspencerlool: is there an upstream for mousepad?16:25
bspencerI think it was an imported Maemo app16:25
bspencerhoraceli: is there an upstream for mousepad?16:25
loolbspencer: Looks like it was http://erikharrison.net/ but is dead now16:26
horacelibspencer, I didn't find the place16:26
loolbspencer: Let me check16:26
bspencerok.  so for mousepad, just put patches into the ppa16:26
bspencerand for galculator put patches into the ppa but also write a patch for upstream inclusion and send to maintainers for discussion16:26
bspencerperhaps with USE_HILDON flag16:26
loolUsually, USE_HILDON should be avoided, but if you have no other options, then yes16:27
loolIf you require hildon libs, then you probably need it16:27
loolbspencer: Could it be http://www.xfce.org/projects/mousepad now?16:27
agoliveiralool, bspencer, galculator already have hildon patches.16:28
bspencerlool:  I don't think that a hildon version of galculator can be generated from upstream yet16:28
bspencerand you mean, only use USE_HILDON if the changes are exactly for hildon, not just mobile changes16:29
loolhoraceli: 17:27 < lool> bspencer: Could it be http://www.xfce.org/projects/mousepad now?16:29
horaceliagoliveira, where can I get the hildon-ized galculator?16:29
bspencerhow would you specify mobile changes.16:29
bspencerhoraceli: in the hardy ppa :)16:29
loolBonus point for bspencer 16:29
agoliveirahoraceli: the same place as everything else: hard16:29
loolbspencer: I think the galculator patches should be sent upstream too :)16:29
loolagoliveira: hard?  or rock?16:30
horacelibspencer, so I need to get it from hardy ppa first, add patches, bump up version , then put back to ppa?16:30
agoliveiralool: I sent them ages ago. Never got an answer :(16:30
loolagoliveira: bug id?16:30
agoliveiralool: Blame that to my lack of sleep16:30
bspencerhoraceli: yes.  and also consider current upstream project and try to create a patch they will accept16:30
bspencerhoraceli: have we ever engaged with galculator maintainers?16:30
loolhoraceli: Yup16:30
agoliveiralool: Good question. I was agaes ago, I really don't know if I even created a bug.16:30
horacelibspencer, seems not16:31
bspencerhoraceli: 17:27 < lool> bspencer: Could it be http://www.xfce.org/projects/mousepad now?16:31
loolagoliveira: I heartily recommend you file bugs16:31
bspencerthat's the upstream where you got mousepad, right?16:31
horacelibspencer, lool, yep, I have seen the link16:31
bspencerok.  anything eles horaceli ?16:31
horacelibspencer, I got mousepad actually by `apt-get source mousepad` in my feisty environment months ago16:32
horaceliand then do hildon-ization16:32
HappyCampdholbach, Mr DJ :)16:32
bspencerhoraceli: ok.  anything eles?16:32
bspencerhoraceli: I have to run to get to work before the next mtg.16:33
dholbachhi happyCamp16:33
horacelibspencer, nope16:33
horaceliwill be you online tnight16:33
bspencerok.  have a good night.  thanks for the checkin.  16:33
agoliveiralool: Sure, was something that went into the limbo when it was just Tollef and I, I guess16:33
bspencerhoraceli: yes.  I'll stay until you arrive16:33
horaceliI want to talk about mousepad tomorrow16:33
bspencerfor the hand-off16:33
horaceliif you have time16:33
bspencersee ya16:33
horacelisee ya16:33
HappyCampdholbach, Hey.  I sold my Technics SL-1210MK2 this last weekend.  I hadn't used them in probably 10 years.  I bet you think I should have kept them :)16:34
HappyCampBut I am going to be moving, so had to clear out stuff.16:34
dholbachHappyCamp: no way :)16:34
loolHappyCamp: So moving to Europe?16:34
dholbachlool: I'll be in Paris tomorrow :)16:34
looldholbach: Cool!  I'll be spazierganging in Paris Saturday; otherwise, I'm quite away of the city (40 mn S-Bahn)16:35
HappyCamplool, not yet.  Actually Boston / New Hampshire area16:35
loolHappyCamp: Oh ok; I wish you a good move then16:35
HappyCampNew assignment.  Starts in a about 2 months16:35
dholbachlool: Spazierganging! :-)16:36
dholbachlool: we'll be spazierganging a lot too :)16:36
HappyCampdholbach, one thing that looked cool was the Denon DN-HS550016:36
looldholbach: We could arrange gemeinsamspazierganging for a while16:36
loolJust don't ask pitti how it was to walk with me in Paris16:37
dholbachlool: I'm used to walking - no problem16:40
dholbachHappyCamp: what's that?16:40
* dholbach hugs lool16:40
dholbachlool: I'll make a note of your mobile phone number :)16:41
loolCurrent plan is eating at Ladurée (Printemps / grand magasins), then perhaps walking to some shops around la Madeleine, then going to some shops around les Halles16:42
loolSee you!16:42
loolhoraceli: You around?16:43
loolhoraceli: Could you try with the glib2.0 version in the ppa?16:43
* dholbach hugs lool16:43
HappyCampdholbach, The denon is a turntable like music player.  Has a rotating platter like a 7" turntable.  You can scratch on it and stuff.16:44
dholbachahhh ok16:44
HappyCampIt just looked cool :)16:44
HappyCampIt is about $850.00 here in the U.S. if you shop around.16:45
loolhoraceli: Did it work with -Wno-error?16:45
agoliveiraHappyCamp, Real man use vinil. Period :)16:46
HappyCampI guess most of the guys are using the Pioneer stuff16:46
HappyCampagoliveira, They have a few products which use viny but you are still mixing MP3s and stuff.  Traktor, Serato Scratch Live16:47
HappyCampThey come with two time-coded vinyl records.  And it figures out that you how you are mixing the vinyl16:48
HappyCamps/out that you how/out how/16:48
agoliveiraHappyCamp: Mix MP3... pfst... I'm talking about hand-mixing stuff with real vinil and felling the beat instead of having software doing it for you! :)16:48
HappyCampagoliveira, That is what that stuff does16:48
HappyCampgoogle for Serato Scratch Live16:49
agoliveiraHappyCamp, so I forgive you.16:49
HappyCampIt is kind of interesting.  I doubt I will ever buy it, but it looks cool.16:49
agoliveiraHappyCamp, I'm just kidding, it's being like 15 years I don't do anything like this.16:50
HappyCampSame here.  I stopped DJing in 1996, once I graduated from college and got a good paying job :)16:50
HappyCampBut I was mainly just DJing wedding receptions and such.16:51
HappyCampNothing too exciting, just trying to make money for school.16:51
agoliveiraHappyCamp, I've done it just for fun, not trying to make any money.16:52
dholbachHappyCamp: ah yeah... I remember16:54
dholbachlool: excellent :)16:55
=== rustyl is now known as rustyl_
* bspencer runs to work. might be a few mins late to mtg...16:55
amitkjay: hi16:57
amitkjay: I did some extensive culling to the lpia kernel config. Do you have time next week to test?16:58
alek_deskamitk, optimized configs?16:59
jayamitk: sure, let me know what you want me to test for16:59
alek_deskjay, BTW I did a fix to USBC today17:00
jayamitk: I mean what to focus on?17:00
amitkalek_desk: jay: kind of. There was a boatload of stuff that I don't anticipate on menlow architecture, such as hotplug PCI, scsi disks, etc. I just want to make sure that I didn't inadvertently turn off something you depend on17:01
jayalek_desk: I saw that, I will wait for a release to be cut before I sync it to hardy-ume17:01
davidmlool, can you chair please17:01
jayamitk: did you figure out the ACPI_VIDEO config issue?17:02
amitkjay: lets continue after the meeting17:02
jayamitk: OK17:02
davidmWe will start the meeting in just a minute.17:03
MootBotMeeting started at 18:03. The chair is lool.17:03
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]17:03
loolHi everybody17:03
* agoliveira waves17:03
loolbspencer: Will be a tad late17:03
lools/: /17:04
loolI'll start by reviewing the action items17:04
loolWhich will soon turn into bashing of my own lateness17:04
lool[topic] patm to to produce boot charts for squashfs vs ext3 for hardy CB by 13 March. [cted]17:04
MootBotNew Topic:  patm to to produce boot charts for squashfs vs ext3 for hardy CB by 13 March. [cted] 17:04
loolpat_mcgowan: woot17:04
AtomicPunkToddBrandt will be in in 15 minutes17:05
loolOk, I'll defer this topic until we grab pat17:05
lool[topic] davidm & agoliveira to look at what asac provides and get script written by 13 March that does conversion of .po files to xpi structures. [cted]17:06
MootBotNew Topic:  davidm & agoliveira to look at what asac provides and get script written by 13 March that does conversion of .po files to xpi structures. [cted] 17:06
loolasac, davidm: How is it going?  Good progress I think?17:06
davidmlool, it is in progress now, I have just about completed the parsing of all strings in a .po file17:06
loolShall we continue tracking in meetings?17:06
davidmI'm just finishing up the comment lines.17:07
davidmI don't think it's worth it, it's well in hand17:07
asacagree ... i think we can drop it from agenda17:07
loolLet's move back to the first topic :)17:08
lool[topic] patm to to produce boot charts for squashfs vs ext3 for hardy CB by 13 March. [cted]17:08
MootBotNew Topic:  patm to to produce boot charts for squashfs vs ext3 for hardy CB by 13 March. [cted] 17:08
loolpat_mcgowan: Did you produce some boot charts?17:08
pat_mcgowanlool, did not produce them but assigned the task to Debbie17:09
pat_mcgowanso now they will appear sometime soon17:09
lool[action] Debbie to produce boot charts for squashfs vs ext3 for hardy CB by 13 March. [cted] [cted]17:09
MootBotACTION received:  Debbie to produce boot charts for squashfs vs ext3 for hardy CB by 13 March. [cted] [cted] 17:09
loolPoor Debbie, didn't start and is already two weeks late ;)17:09
pat_mcgowanbtw Debbie is looking at boot speed in general17:09
loolExcellent news17:09
loolLet's move forward then, thanks for the update17:10
lool[topic] kyleN to attach his python script to list gettext domains in use in hildon modules on the langpack research page17:10
MootBotNew Topic:  kyleN to attach his python script to list gettext domains in use in hildon modules on the langpack research page 17:10
kyleNcan you please remind me which exact page you'd like me to attach this to?17:10
loolkyleN: The langpack research page17:10
kyleNcan you be less specific ?17:10
kyleNhow about a url17:10
kyleNwill do it17:11
loolShould I consider it done?17:11
kyleNI'll do it soon. you can remove it from actions17:11
lool[topic] kyleN to enhance his python script looking into hildon modules to build a map of where the gettext templates are stored17:11
MootBotNew Topic:  kyleN to enhance his python script looking into hildon modules to build a map of where the gettext templates are stored 17:11
loolI think you made some good progress on the script this week17:11
loolHow is it going?17:12
kyleNhere's a summary17:12
kyleNwe are talking about grepping source code packages to find domains17:12
kyleNsomeimtes domains are set with variables17:12
kyleNso getting a definitive list from any tool is not worth the effort17:12
kyleNhowever, the tool simplifies the process of getting the domains17:12
kyleNyou have a list of packages you edit through the gui17:13
kyleNit downloads source packages for them all17:13
kyleNthen there is a stage of grepping in which you can edit the various grep commands17:13
kyleNthese are then grepped again and post processed17:13
kyleNthe reesult is a neat lit of per package domains plus items that need further research17:14
kyleNso it gets you much of the way, with some manual follow up needs17:14
loolWhen you say a list of per package domains, are these gettext domains used by the package or templates provided in the package?17:14
kyleNgettext domains17:14
kyleNso we end up with a list of domains each pkg uses. some pkgs use multiple17:15
kyleNsome hildon pkgs, that is, use multiple17:15
loolOnes used by the package to request strings or ones for which the package provides strings?17:15
kyleNthe former17:15
loolOk; did you also look for the later?17:15
kyleNthe second part is yet to be investigaged17:15
loolOk; nice work on the first part; thanks a lot!  Could you list the current output of the script on the same wiki page with today's date?17:16
kyleNyes but I have one question, the answer of which may be obvious to many here17:16
kyleNwhat's the actual list of hildon packages I should be searching. I can apt-cache search "hildon" in a target, but that doesn't seem definitive17:17
loolWhat about searching the ones from a haf checkout?17:17
kyleNwhat is the clear lsit of hildon package we use so that I can find out what domains they require17:18
kyleNdon't understand "haf checkout"17:18
loolkyleN: https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk17:18
loolA SVN checkout of this URL, which I think I mentionned as a starting point a long long while back17:19
kyleNoh, but wouldn't that be ALL hildon packages, and we don't use some of them, right17:19
loolBut you might have followed a different path in the mean time17:19
loolkyleN: Does it matter?17:19
kyleNwe only need domains for the packages we use, not for all of them17:19
loolkyleN: One issue with looking at what we have in APT able packages is that we might be missing the packages actually providing the templates17:19
loolkyleN: We can easily filter down the list17:20
kyleNthat's what I am asking for: the filetered list. however, I can start with the haf svn co17:20
bspencerkyleN: we can prioritize the list to those we use now heavily and those we don't use much, or don't use at all yet17:20
loolbspencer_: http://people.dooz.org/~lool/um-meeting-20080320.txt17:20
bspencerbut I agree with lool  that all are important and will likely be used eventually17:20
bspencerlool:  thx.17:20
kyleNok, I'll get them all.17:21
kyleNby the way, not today. hopefully tomorrow17:21
loolkyleN: So, the action was about locating the templates17:21
lool"kyleN to enhance his python script looking into hildon modules to build a map of where the gettext templates are stored"17:21
loolkyleN: Carry on that action?17:21
kyleNyes please.17:21
lool[action] kyleN to enhance his python script looking into hildon modules to build a map of where the gettext templates are stored [cted]17:21
MootBotACTION received:  kyleN to enhance his python script looking into hildon modules to build a map of where the gettext templates are stored [cted] 17:21
lool[topic] kyleN to look into hildon-help; what's is useful for and whether we should package it for UME [cted]17:21
MootBotNew Topic:  kyleN to look into hildon-help; what's is useful for and whether we should package it for UME [cted] 17:21
kyleNsadly not touched, please carry forward17:22
lool[action] kyleN to look into hildon-help; what's is useful for and whether we should package it for UME [cted] [cted]17:22
MootBotACTION received:  kyleN to look into hildon-help; what's is useful for and whether we should package it for UME [cted] [cted] 17:22
lool[topic] lool review progress on Hildon 2.0 updates next week [cted]17:22
MootBotNew Topic:  lool review progress on Hildon 2.0 updates next week [cted] 17:22
loolagoliveira, bfiller, horaceli, smagoun, lool: progress?17:22
bspencerhoraceli: you still here?17:22
loolI've been slacking and still only did one out of two17:22
bfillerlool: I'll need to carry over to next week. did not get to yet.17:23
agoliveiralool: At the Bossa Conference this week so, not yet. I hope to complete until next week.17:23
loolAlso, I intend to upload my work to hardy, but it's in freeze til today for beta17:23
* ToddBrandt is back17:23
loolOk; carrying on17:23
lool[action] lool review progress on Hildon 2.0 updates next week [cted] [cted]17:23
MootBotACTION received:  lool review progress on Hildon 2.0 updates next week [cted] [cted] 17:23
lool[topic] ToddBrandt to turn on moblin-settings-daemon's watching of the gtk theme gconf keys [cted]17:23
MootBotNew Topic:  ToddBrandt to turn on moblin-settings-daemon's watching of the gtk theme gconf keys [cted] 17:23
loolToddBrandt: woot17:23
ToddBrandtamazing, just in time17:23
ToddBrandtlool: I've been fighting fires this week so it's not in 0.47 yet, but I send Kyle a clarification request to understand exactly what you guys want17:24
ToddBrandtSo, we're working it offline essentially17:24
kyleNlool, perhaps you can help me articulate it, but here's my thinking17:24
kyleNin desktop, there's a gconf key that is watched by the settings daemon. change the gconf key and it refers to a new gtk directory + theme17:25
kyleNthe gtk theme changees automically and dynamically17:25
kyleNhowever, this does work on mobile17:25
loolThat's correct17:25
kyleNI believe it may be at least in part because moblin daemon does watch this key17:26
kyleNdoe NOT watch this key i mean17:26
loolCould be17:26
kyleNso the first step to getting dynamic gtk themes is waching the key17:26
ToddBrandtwait, who changes this key? Do you mean gconf-editor or some theme-switcher applet?17:26
loolToddBrandt: Whatever, usually desktop-background-properties or appearance-properties in a normal desktop17:26
kyleNif you cahnge it manually in desktop, everything happens17:26
ToddBrandtmoblin-applets is intended to supply that applet17:26
loolwell, not desktop-background-properties, sorry, it was some other capplet17:26
ToddBrandtthat's where I'm confused17:27
bspencertheme is different from background17:27
bspencertheme switcher applet is not planned by us, but should be by someone :)17:27
kyleN+1 bspencer 17:27
loolYes, I didn't mean background17:27
ToddBrandtmoblin-applets includes the schema to default those theme keys17:28
loolTo be clear: there are many types of themes, GNOME theme are "meta themes", pointing to a Gtk+ theme17:28
kyleNThere are issues with theme switching in hildon17:29
loolthe daemon programs watching this gconf property is here to bridge gconf changes over Xsettings changes; the other programs should watch the relevant gconf keys directly17:29
kyleNnot least of which is that hildon-desktop seems to hard code the gtkrc files17:29
ToddBrandtSo you want moblin-settings-daemon to watch one set of keys for changes, then when it detects them apply those changes to other keys?17:30
kyleNcouldwe extend hildonprogram to watch this key so that every application that extends it watches too?17:30
=== \sh is now known as \sh_away
loolOk; so where do we stand here?  bspencer says theme switching isn't in the plans; kyleN you need theme switching?17:30
kyleNwe need at lest gtk theme switching17:30
loolToddBrandt: The gnome-settings-daemon watches gconf key changes and updates "xsettings" for the Gtk+ theme at least17:30
ToddBrandtwell, gnome-control-center has a theme-switcher applet, it's on the table to be added to moblin-applets at some point in the future17:30
loolToddBrandt: but even if you don't implement the applet, could you watch the key over gconf and update the xsettings like gnome does?17:31
loolToddBrandt: Say, gconftool-2 would be used to switch between themes in your tests17:31
ToddBrandtok, so which code would I look at to understand exactly what gnome does?17:31
ToddBrandthmm, ok17:32
loolI think xsettings-manager.c is the point17:32
ToddBrandtSo basically I should resurrect that code into moblin-settings-daemon, gotcha17:32
loolToddBrandt: gnome-settings-xsettings.c => /desktop/gnome/interface/gtk_key_theme gconf => Gtk/KeyThemeName Xsettings17:32
ToddBrandtok, I understand17:33
loolWe should use something else than /gnome obviously17:33
kyleNour (shortish term)  need is not to empower the user to switch themes, but to receive an event and respond by changing the gconf gtk theme key to point to another theme. then, all gtk bjects magically change accordingly17:33
ToddBrandtmoblin-settings-xsettings.c is there but is dormant17:33
loolToddBrandt: Is it ok for you to work on this?17:33
ToddBrandtyes, that shouldn't be a problem17:34
loolOk; I'll carry on the same action then; thanks!17:34
lool[action] ToddBrandt to turn on moblin-settings-daemon's watching of the gtk theme gconf keys [cted] [cted]17:34
MootBotACTION received:  ToddBrandt to turn on moblin-settings-daemon's watching of the gtk theme gconf keys [cted] [cted] 17:34
ToddBrandtk, thanks, and sorry for the delay17:34
lool[topic] sabotage to provide drafts of themes tools guide and implementation options as links on the mailing-list [cted]17:34
MootBotNew Topic:  sabotage to provide drafts of themes tools guide and implementation options as links on the mailing-list [cted] 17:34
loolsabotage: You did I think17:34
loolsabotage: Congrats!17:34
loolsabotage: Now what's the next step?17:34
lool[link] http://www.moblin.org/moblin-wiki/ThemeGuide17:34
MootBotLINK received:  http://www.moblin.org/moblin-wiki/ThemeGuide 17:35
sabotagefeedback, debate, beer17:35
kyleNin that order?17:35
sabotagenot necessarily17:35
loolYou can insert beer before debate or feedback17:35
loolBut don't drive17:35
sabotagesometime beer first helps the process17:35
kyleNthx for posting, sabotage. 17:35
loolMy first feedback is: thanks!17:35
loolNice compilation17:35
bspencersabotage: do you have plans to resurrect the tools that were created by Peter?17:35
sabotageso, point is, it's in wiki form, and there are areas where detail is still needed17:36
bspenceror update them and release them?17:36
kyleNwho is peter? we might want theme creation tools for OEMs ODMs. 17:36
sabotageand some places where direction must be set, and this really should be done collaboratively 17:36
kyleNI believe Moblin has diverged from Hildon theme tools17:37
sabotagebspencer, no idea who/what you are refering to?17:37
bspencerkyleN: Peter Zhu is on our PRC team.  He created a simple extension to the hildon theme creation tools to support our additions. 17:37
sabotageoh, yeah...17:37
bspencerPeter Zhu gave these tools to kwiii who created an ubuntu-specific theme17:37
sabotagewell, no plans today17:37
bspencerwe've been sitting on that theme and tools 17:37
bspencersabotage: ok.17:37
kyleNare these tools suitable for OEMs?17:37
sabotageand that is one of the ares that needs further community discussion17:37
bspencerkyleN: they may be, but they need an owner.  17:37
sabotageI'm not sure I liked the path that the tools peter was working was going17:38
bspencersabotage: right.   kyleN that's why they need an owner :)17:38
kyleNso I +1 sabotage's call for someone to bite this bullet, and no I am not volunteering right now. but it's absence will continue to plague us, I believe17:38
sabotageso action would be for stakeholders to review the tools section of the theme guide and lets start discussing options17:39
loolSo, do you people have an exact idea of what needs discussing, or do we need to discuss a general direction for these tools?17:39
sabotagethe problem statement is in my doc17:39
sabotageoptions are presented17:39
bspencerwe have some ideas, I think sabotage has described the issues.17:39
loolsabotage: The part about changing this or that gtkrc?17:39
sabotageand it needs review 17:39
sabotageno, the part about the dependancies on hildon layout and template files today17:40
sabotageand that they don't meet the broader needs and flixibility going forward17:40
kyleNi think there needs to be a set of requriements for themeing defined17:41
kyleNbroadly speaking17:41
sabotagewe need to come up with a plan on if moblin themes will be compatible with hildon, vice versa, or totally new/different17:41
loolOk; is this something which we need to settle right now?  Could it wait for e.g. UDS?17:41
sabotagenot now, a sprint or UDS or other forum would be better17:41
sabotageface 2 face is best17:42
kyleNUDS sounds reasonable17:42
loolOk; sabotage could you add a simple blueprint (mostly empty for now) for this?17:42
kyleNit's not trivial17:42
loolsabotage: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile17:42
sabotagegive me an action...I just got a call I need to take...17:43
loolThat's fine17:43
bspencerI think we can expose the tools we have now and you could look at them17:43
loolamitk: Which was the blueprint you created recently?17:43
bspencerand also kwii's theme.17:43
loolbspencer: Sounds reasonable17:43
lool[link] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntu-mobile-kernel-version17:44
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntu-mobile-kernel-version 17:44
loolThis is an example empty blueprint which amitk created last week and which we intend to discuss at next UDS (uds-intrepid, in Prague)17:44
lool[action] sabotage to create a blueprint entry at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/17:45
MootBotACTION received:  sabotage to create a blueprint entry at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/ 17:45
amitkone thing I just realised... it isn't under ~ubuntu-mobile17:45
loolamitk: Please subscribe u-m17:45
loolamitk: This is how I failed finding it at first sight ;)17:45
lool[topic] lool to document tarball release + ppa upload process and patch addition + submission process17:45
MootBotNew Topic:  lool to document tarball release + ppa upload process and patch addition + submission process 17:45
loolThis is the moment where you can all bash me17:45
loolExecutive status: zero17:46
loolSo, I simply didn't update any moblin module to a tarball release, and this really sucks; I'm very sorry17:46
* bspencer thinks look is a loser and wonders how he rose to the status of MOTU17:46
loolThis subsequently prevented rustyl_ to assign the other updates17:46
* rustyl_ is relieved17:46
loolbspencer: I'm even core dev now17:46
loolYeah, they accept almost anybody17:47
loolSo, I'll have to reconduct the action; as a bonus, I should be able to push to hardy as we were in freeze this week17:47
lool[action] lool to document tarball release + ppa upload process and patch addition + submission process [cted]17:47
MootBotACTION received:  lool to document tarball release + ppa upload process and patch addition + submission process [cted] 17:47
lool[topic] lool to send rustyl_ steps to update ppa packages for the new tarball based release process17:48
MootBotNew Topic:  lool to send rustyl_ steps to update ppa packages for the new tarball based release process 17:48
loolHmm dito17:48
lool[action] lool to send rustyl_ steps to update ppa packages for the new tarball based release process [cted]17:48
MootBotACTION received:  lool to send rustyl_ steps to update ppa packages for the new tarball based release process [cted] 17:48
loolrustyl_: My sincere apologies; I hate blocking other people17:48
lool[topic] rustyl_ to assign ppa packages updates for the new tarball based release process17:48
MootBotNew Topic:  rustyl_ to assign ppa packages updates for the new tarball based release process 17:48
rustyl_just means other items got more cycles17:48
loolrustyl_: So, sorry again; allow me to carry on17:49
lool[action] rustyl_ to assign ppa packages updates for the new tarball based release process [cted as blocked by lool last week]17:49
MootBotACTION received:  rustyl_ to assign ppa packages updates for the new tarball based release process [cted as blocked by lool last week] 17:49
loolMoving to today's items now17:49
lool[topic] bfiller: how to keep moblin-applets in sync with gnome-control-center/gnome-system-tools17:49
MootBotNew Topic:  bfiller: how to keep moblin-applets in sync with gnome-control-center/gnome-system-tools 17:49
lool(WARNING: 10mn left)17:50
loolbfiller: woot17:50
bfillermy understanding is moblin-applets forked from gnome-control-center/gnome-system-tools a while back. Lots of things have changed in the gnome packages in Hardy (many related to PolicyKit/ConsoleKit). moblin-applets needs to sync up. I filed one bug (#203311) on Date/Time that is an example, there are probably others.17:50
bfillerI'm concerned about this being a general problem for each release. How will this be managed? Seems a better approach would have been not to fork, but to create patches and get them included in Gnome. Gnome Mobile would most likely be interested.17:50
loolI suppose ToddBrandt would have an opinion on that17:50
loolToddBrandt: ^17:50
ToddBrandtbfiller: yea I've seen alot of those upgrades, some are pretty neat17:51
ToddBrandtwe'll keep that in the wishlist for now17:51
ToddBrandtuntil all the bugs are done with17:51
ToddBrandtwhich should be very soon17:51
bfillerToddBrandt: keep what in the wishlist?17:51
ToddBrandtbfiller: pulling in some of the gnome-control-center 20.1+ upgrades17:52
bfillerToddBrandt: I don't think it's a wishlist thing. I think it has to be done otherwise some things won't work..17:52
bfillerToddBrandt: like Date/Time settings17:52
ToddBrandtbfiller: actually I've completely revamped date/time for 0.47 mooblin-applets, it looks nothing like gnome-control-center anymore17:53
ToddBrandtwe'll take it on a case by case basis17:53
bfillerToddBrandt: so it doesn't use gksu to launch the applet anymore?17:54
ToddBrandtbfiller: nope, I added moblin-system-daemon, which runs as root, and has a connection to the system backends and the touchscreen driver17:54
ToddBrandtbfiller: So now all the low level stuff that used to requre gksu and root access go through a DBUS api to moblin-system-daemon17:55
ToddBrandtthings run much more smoothly this way17:55
loolWhere's the access policy defined?17:55
bfillerToddBrandt: sure that probably works. But I guess my point is Hardy and Gnome do it a different way now and we are not taking advantage of it..17:56
ToddBrandtWell, I just expose 6 DBUS functions to the user domain, any user space app can access the daemon17:56
davidm4 minute warning17:56
lool(a root running daemon which you can talk to over dbus makes my security ears beep)17:56
davidmloudly I might add17:56
ToddBrandtMithrandir suggested it way back when17:56
ToddBrandtI was going to update the sudoers file but that got poo-pooed17:57
loolWell in GNOME it's like that *but* there's policykit/consolekit to actually grant dbus access17:57
loolBut perhaps we're far of the original topic17:57
ToddBrandtI'm sure there's always something else we have to add, send me a pointer to an example and I'll take a look17:57
loolIf bfiller allows me to reword: is moblin-applets a perpetual fork, or will you rebase?17:57
bfillerlool: yes, good question17:58
ToddBrandtperpetual fork, we will rebase only for things we really like17:58
ToddBrandtthe intent is for moblin-applets to split off completely and be very MID specific17:58
loolToddBrandt: Will you look into cherry picking these regularly, or are you expecting to be requested to do this?17:58
ToddBrandtnot regularly, only in extremely rare instances17:59
davidm1 minute warning17:59
loolbfiller: Does that answer the question?17:59
bspencerlool: the merging with Hardy hasn't been on our plate.  We haven't scoped that for moblin-applets.  We'll chat about that and let's talk again next week17:59
bfillerlool: it does, but I can't say I agree with the approach. Will be very problematic to maintain17:59
bspencerdavidm:  action:  ToddBrandt to talk to bspencer and mawhalen about this task and bfiller and lool, etc.17:59
loolbspencer: It's not about hardy I think, but rather about upstream's module17:59
loolbfiller: I do agree with you18:00
bspencerlool: I see.  Well then it is a wishlist item -- to be done later.18:00
davidmbspencer, actually lool is chairing the meeting18:00
loolI think it's a question of long term strategy18:00
bspencerdavidm: oh.  you were such a consistent reminder of time.18:00
loolbspencer: I don't understand the action18:00
bspencerlool: ToddBrandt has no direction to get hardy working 18:01
bspencerwith moblin-applets18:01
loolbfiller: Perhaps an UDS session is a better place to discuss this?18:01
bfillerlool: sure18:01
loolbspencer: I'm not sure it's related to hardy at all18:01
davidmaction:  ToddBrandt to talk to bspencer and mawhalen about the merging with Hardy and bfiller and lool, etc.18:01
bspenceras far as upstream, I think the task is quite a bit more involved as we have to consider our long-term strategy for applets.18:01
loolWell if everybody want that action that I don't understand, you'll get it :)18:02
bfillerbspencer: but doesn't moblin-applets have to work properly with Hardy?18:02
bspencerlool: so UDS is a good place to discuss.18:02
lool[action] ToddBrandt to talk to bspencer and mawhalen about the merging with Hardy and bfiller and lool, etc.18:02
MootBotACTION received:  ToddBrandt to talk to bspencer and mawhalen about the merging with Hardy and bfiller and lool, etc. 18:02
bspencerbfiller: I think it does for you, yes.18:02
ToddBrandtbfiller: yes, but not necessarily in concert with gnome-control-center's latest18:02
ToddBrandtit's a compeltely separate package now18:02
bspencerlool:  bfiller   I see two separate issues:  working in hardy.   patches upstream.18:02
bfillerbspencer, ToddBrandt : ok, so specific bugs will be fixed but independent of gnome?18:02
bfillerbspencer: yes18:03
ToddBrandtyes, exactly18:03
bspencerbfiller: in the short term, yes.  18:03
loolbspencer: There's the overall "fitting with a modern GNOME platform" issue which you can connect with "staying relevant" :)18:03
bspencerabsolutely.  18:03
bfillerbspencer: works for me18:04
loolbfiller: topic closed?18:04
bfillerlool: yes18:04
lool[topic] davidm: How many Intel folks have their UDS plans made?18:04
MootBotNew Topic:  davidm: How many Intel folks have their UDS plans made? 18:04
bspencercan you post a link to the UDS info?18:04
loolSo, rustyl_, bspencer, ToddBrandt, sabotage ...18:05
* agoliveira thought davidm has asked something in the "light bulb change" line18:05
loolbspencer: I'm actually surprized that I can't find one18:05
loolhttps://blueprints.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-intrepid isn't very helpful18:06
bspencerok.  where and when ?18:06
loolWe have a private page at Canonical18:06
loolOh, renamed18:06
rustyl_lool, i don't know the travel plans for UDS18:06
lool[link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Intrepid18:06
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Intrepid 18:06
bfillerbspencer: Prague, May 18-2518:06
loolGeez, you weren't put in the loop?18:06
davidmIt's pretty important to attend.18:07
bspencerbfiller: lool  we'll discuss.  I don't know yet about our plans.18:07
davidmI've suggested folks to  Mauri and Don18:07
bspencerbut I have never been to Prague.  I know if rusty can go all will be well.18:07
bspencerall hail rusty.18:07
loolThe more Intel folks, the better :)18:08
loolThis is a great occasion to sit face to face, and we have a whole week of coffee and biscuits to discuss or spec things18:08
amitklool: we are going to Prague and you want to drink coffee?18:08
loolYou'll need to mention your personal interest in sessions you care about, and the big computer should compute the best planning for all of us18:09
loolamitk: Heh18:09
loolbspencer, rustyl_: Could you please gather interest in attending UDS Prague / Intrepid, and also you can start brainstorming about what you'd like to discuss18:10
loolYou're also welcome to register blueprints immediately18:10
bfilleramitk: :)18:10
loolEven if only high level18:10
looldavidm: Topic closed?  Did you want to discuss anything in particular?18:10
loolOk, ending the meeting then18:11
MootBotMeeting finished at 19:11.18:11
davidmTime to join Dons call18:11
loolbspencer, rustyl_: I'd like to mention I'll attend over phone the Moblin 2.0 event18:11
bspencerlool:  great.18:11
loolbspencer, rustyl_: I understand it's like a counterpart to our UDS, but it wasn't efficient for me to come physically and be in a bad sleeping state in the whole day of Moblin 2.0; I hope it will be manageable over phone18:12
bspencerlool: no problem.  We'll remember to call the bridge 18:13
amitkjay: I'm heading out for some emergency grocery shopping before Finland shuts down until Tuesday. I'll send kernel configs in email.18:14
loolbspencer, rustyl_: If you organize such events regularly, perhaps every 6 months, I think I could be in a better state of attendance if I could come for more days; for instance a 3 days event, I'd come one day upfront, sleep, etc.18:14
pat_mcgowanbspencer, David and I will be attending next week FYI18:14
jaycamitk: sure18:14
ToddBrandtlool: wrt to the security policy, can you point me to some documentation or an example on how to implement that? Is there a way to set up dbus to only work with a certain user or only from a certain collection of apps?18:22
loolToddBrandt: Kind of18:24
loolToddBrandt: My understanding is that policykit is inspired by macosx security framework18:24
loolToddBrandt: Check /etc/dbus-1/system.d/NetworkManager.conf18:24
loolToddBrandt:         <policy at_console="true">18:25
ToddBrandtlool: we have a conundrum in moblin wrt to security vs convenience, logging in as root is unacceptable so I have to find some middle ground18:25
loolToddBrandt: This tells dbus to use policykit to check whether the user is in front of the active session18:25
ToddBrandtpolicykit, is that another daemon?18:25
loolNot really18:26
loolToddBrandt: I think you should read doc onthe policykit website18:26
loolhttp://hal.freedesktop.org/docs/PolicyKit/ might be a good read18:26
lool(design overview)18:26
ToddBrandtyea I just saw that, first link in google18:27
ToddBrandtis it related to HAL?18:27
ToddBrandtoh, that's something I could read, gotcha, thanks!18:27
loolIt can check things in hal18:27
loolToddBrandt: Same kind of checks to allow access to the interfaces of hal is done in its dbus config18:28
loolToddBrandt:   <!-- You can change this to a more suitable user, or make per-group -->18:28
lool  <policy user="0">18:29
loolThis means only root can use these18:29
lool  <!-- Only root or user haldaemon can own the HAL service -->18:29
lool  <policy user="haldaemon">18:29
ToddBrandtYea I saw that the system backends have a debug interface that can be exposed to the user, that's why I didn't touch that18:29
lool  <!-- Allow everything, including access to SetHostName to users of the group "netdev" -->18:29
lool  <policy group="netdev">18:29
lool    <allow send_destination="org.freedesktop.Avahi"/>18:29
loolToddBrandt: So I think this is how you should access control it18:30
ToddBrandtok, I'll take a look18:30
loolToddBrandt: have fun!18:31
ToddBrandtlool: heh, thanks ;)18:31
RaseelI'm trying to install a Project using image-creator for the first time. How long does it usually take ?18:38
bspencerRaseel: the majority of the time is downloading all the packages, so it depends on your connection, and your computer speed18:40
bspencerI have a great quad-core and a local mirror of hardy and gutsy, so it takes me about 4mins18:41
bspencerbut before that it took upwards of 30-60mins.18:41
bspencermost of the time just waiting though.18:41
Raseelbspencer:Yeah. So how much data is downloaded ? In MBs ?18:41
bspencerhm, not sure.  But the image that is created on a compressed filesystem is ~500MB.18:42
bspencerso I guess about 1GB18:42
bspencerI could be way off though18:42
RaseelWow !!!! That much ?18:42
bspencerhow big is hardy ?  It downloads the full mobile distribution packages.18:43
RaseelThen maybe even I should set up a local mirror first and then go about trying to create a build nvironment18:43
bspencerafter you do it once, though, creating images is fast.18:43
bspencerHappyCamp have you ever documented a BKM for creating a mirror for mobile ?18:43
GrueMasterI think there is a bkm on mirroring up on moblin.org18:45
loolBest Known Method?18:50
loolI use squid here, it allows me to limit how much disk space I want to give to caching and it will keep the most recent objects only18:51
GrueMasterpat_mcgowan: ping.  Don said you wanted CB info?20:37
pat_mcgowanGrueMaster, I had asked how to query a system to know what chip revs are present20:40
GrueMasterlspci should give you the chipset stepping.20:40
GrueMasterRev 6 is D1, Rev 5 is D0, etc20:41
GrueMasteryou can get the cpu info from /proc/cpuinfo20:42
pat_mcgowanGrueMaster, thanks20:42
pat_mcgowanI think Poulsbo is generally in lock step with the cpu20:42
GrueMasterNot necessarily.  The current (latest) is C0 SLT, D1 PSB20:43
pat_mcgowanGrueMaster, you around, more camera questions22:07
GrueMasterI'm here.  Not awake, but here none-the-less.22:09
GrueMasterwhat's up?22:11
GrueMasterpat_mcgowan:  you rang?22:15
pat_mcgowanGrueMaster, hey, trying to narrow down our camera issue22:16
pat_mcgowanit works on C0, not on D1, how come?22:16
GrueMasterI've been tied up with video driver and helix testing, but I will load your image here in a few and look.22:16
pat_mcgowanGrueMaster, we are trying to figure out if there was some change to the USB interface, or the latest BIOS, or what22:17
GrueMasterI know there were some fixes in D0/D1 sil for USB.  USBc is still apparently broken, though.22:18
GrueMasterIs this on CB or ODM hardware?22:19
pat_mcgowanGrueMaster, we have C0 and D1 CB, and D1 OEM22:21
pat_mcgowanonly C0 CB is working with the latest software22:22
GrueMasterOk.  On the D1 CB, which bios do you have?22:22
GrueMasterSee if there is an update available.  I have 73, and found a video issue with earlier bios versions on D1.22:23
pat_mcgowanon ARMS?22:23
pat_mcgowanI dont think so22:23
GrueMasterYou'll have to talk to either Don or whomever is your TME.  I can't put it up there for you.  They'd tar and feather me, then strap me to a flag pole.22:25
GrueMasterI just imaged a drive with your 0313 image.  I'll try it against bios 73, and also against newer video drivers and see if I see a difference.22:26
pat_mcgowanGrueMaster, great22:26
GrueMasterSo what's with the X loop?22:28
pat_mcgowanGrueMaster, best if you can first reproduce our failure of course22:28
GrueMasterendless respawn.22:28
pat_mcgowanWhat X loop?22:28
pat_mcgowanoh yeah, touchscreen enabled22:29
GrueMasterThat's right22:29
pat_mcgowanyou need to disable the touchscreen in the conf22:29
pat_mcgowanGrueMaster, we just loaded an old BIOS on the oem unit, and camera worked22:31
GrueMasterI wish the default would to be not to respawn X.  22:31
pat_mcgowanreally old version22:31
pat_mcgowanGrueMaster, our C0 that works is running BIOS v6722:35
GrueMasterOk, I'm not seeing an issue with default image and bios 73.  I'll downrev to 70 now and see if it shows up.22:36
pat_mcgowanGrueMaster, please email me your results22:43
GrueMasterI'm just booting into gui now w/ bios 70.22:45
pat_mcgowanI worry it only happens with our higher res camera22:46
GrueMasterNo, it looks like cheese is bombing out on me with bios 70.  I'm also seeing the video shake, which is what I saw here on other tests with that bios.22:47
pat_mcgowanCool, thats it then22:48
pat_mcgowanDo you have errata list for 70 to 73?22:48
pat_mcgowanI will ask Don to get me the new version22:48
GrueMasterI do, but it's mostly internal info.  I have to watch what I give out, being the absolute lowest on the totem pole.22:50
pat_mcgowanGrueMaster, well thanks for your help, you are highest on our totem pole22:50
pat_mcgowantalk to you tomorrow22:50
GrueMasterSee ya.22:50

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