[06:07] good morning === \sh_away is now known as \sh === \sh is now known as \sh_away === \sh_away is now known as \sh === Mithrand1r is now known as Mithrandir [14:34] <\sh> lool: ping claws-mail: I just need to test it still for building on lpia and see if it's starting up with the ubuntu-mobile environment ... you don#t need to do anything...uploading will be done hopefully tonight :) === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach [15:09] lool: ping [15:13] \sh: Cool! [15:13] \sh: Also, you might want to talk with agoliveira (Adilson) when he's around, he's the one working on this port for us [15:14] \sh: bfiller from MSG team was also highly interested :) [15:14] \sh: ("MSG" => Canonical Mobile Solution Group) [15:14] bfiller: ^ [15:14] bfiller: \sh has been reviewing, porting, and soon will be uploading claws-mail's hildon patch [15:15] bfiller: (he updated claws to 3.3.1) [15:15] lool: great, thanks for the update [15:15] cgregan: pongt [15:15] cgregan: suggestion: group your ping with a question to allow me to attach an answer to the pong) [15:16] or to the pongt [15:16] <\sh> lool: I documented everything in the bugreport :) [15:16] \sh: Excellent, thanks again [15:16] asac: http://blog.mozilla.com/blassey/2008/03/17/maemo-buildbot/ [15:16] lool: got it..thanks....is there an iso image for the latest release of ubuntu-mobile that I can use to boot a VM. LIW mentioned [15:17] asac: Some recent efforts to build xulrunner for maemo :) [15:17] asac: The hard part is probably the arm port for these folks though [15:17] cgregan: We don't have ISO images [15:17] lool: yes. at least debian can benefit of this i guess [15:17] cgregan: Latest MIC might be able to generate some, but we don't build dailies [15:18] cgregan: The reason there's no big need for them is that the devices don't have CD-ROM usually, but they do have USB ports [15:18] cgregan: So it's easier for us to boot on USB [15:18] lool: thanks...I will check moblin. [15:18] cgregan: This is in the mail I sent you though [15:19] lool: yes...VM/qemu does not like USB as far as I can see [15:19] cgregan: Our dailies are at cdimages.u.c though, not at moblin [15:19] moblin is the upstream of the projects we package [15:19] lool: we should entangle with them if we need features for xulrunner in the code base. [15:19] asac: them == ? [15:19] maemo folks? [15:19] yes [15:20] nokia [15:20] Sure [15:20] lool: correct...actually trying to VM menlow [15:20] cgregan: Have fun [15:20] lool: hehe [15:20] not even sarcastic! [15:20] asac: Who was handling the xulrunner stuff for Nokia? [15:20] asac: (You know that all their GTK people are leaving next week, right?) [15:21] timeless is working for them as far as i know [15:21] mjg59: Terrible news :-( [15:21] not sure if he works on xul specifically [15:21] lool: thanks...I told liw I would keep him in the loop, do you want a digest of my findings as well? [15:21] mjg59: nokias gtk people ... wow. [15:21] cgregan: I certainly do; as I wrote in my email ;) [15:22] asac: I think there's a couple of managers left, but as far as I know all the coders are leaving [15:22] mjg59: any destination or just walking away? [15:22] asac: I think they're going to the same place, but I don't know where [15:23] ;) [15:23] yeah === amitk_ is now known as amitk [15:53] Other than the XWindows configuration and drivers, what are the differences between Mccaslin and Menlow images? I'm asking because I'm getting a development system for home in the next couple of weeks, and will be using a mccaslin image for it, but want the latest apps as well. [15:57] cjb: is it devel@lists.laptop.org [15:57] err, wrong chan [16:21] no adilson... [16:21] lool: ping? [16:21] bspencer: pong [16:21] bspencer: Adilson is more or less around, he just came back from Bossa [16:22] horace and I were trying to make small patches for galculator and mousepad (notepad) [16:22] we didn't see these in bzr. [16:22] do we just add our patches to PPA only [16:22] bspencer: Hi. Looking for me? [16:22] and not worry about bzr repo? [16:22] agoliveira: wow, what response! [16:23] just a quick Q about galculator and notes [16:23] bspencer: lool was vigilant. I was around, just forgot to join here. [16:23] we have a couple small patches to galculator. We can add these as patch files to hardy ppa on top of your source [16:23] bspencer: Sure; either file patches against hardy proper or upload to the ppa or both :) [16:23] bspencer: The right way is to open a bug. [16:23] the Q was if we need to add these changes to the bzr repo. But there doesn't seem to be one for galculator or mousepad [16:23] bspencer: or upstream :) [16:24] bspencer: We bzr-imported maemo stuff, and only that AFAIK [16:24] bspencer: We could do the same for more projects [16:24] We didn't do this for galculator though [16:24] lool: ok. So ppa patches, and upstream. We'll do it in that order. [16:24] bspencer: Well, lool can answer that better than I but he's correct. [16:24] cool, got it [16:25] bspencer: IMO it's best to push it upstream first; but to get packages the soonest, you need to go to the ppa step :) [16:25] lool: is there an upstream for mousepad? [16:25] I think it was an imported Maemo app [16:25] horaceli: is there an upstream for mousepad? [16:26] bspencer: Looks like it was http://erikharrison.net/ but is dead now [16:26] bspencer, I didn't find the place [16:26] bspencer: Let me check [16:26] ok. so for mousepad, just put patches into the ppa [16:26] and for galculator put patches into the ppa but also write a patch for upstream inclusion and send to maintainers for discussion [16:26] perhaps with USE_HILDON flag [16:27] Usually, USE_HILDON should be avoided, but if you have no other options, then yes [16:27] If you require hildon libs, then you probably need it [16:27] bspencer: Could it be http://www.xfce.org/projects/mousepad now? [16:28] lool, bspencer, galculator already have hildon patches. [16:28] lool: I don't think that a hildon version of galculator can be generated from upstream yet [16:29] and you mean, only use USE_HILDON if the changes are exactly for hildon, not just mobile changes [16:29] horaceli: 17:27 < lool> bspencer: Could it be http://www.xfce.org/projects/mousepad now? [16:29] agoliveira, where can I get the hildon-ized galculator? [16:29] how would you specify mobile changes. [16:29] horaceli: in the hardy ppa :) [16:29] Bonus point for bspencer [16:29] horaceli: the same place as everything else: hard [16:29] bspencer: I think the galculator patches should be sent upstream too :) [16:30] agoliveira: hard? or rock? [16:30] bspencer, so I need to get it from hardy ppa first, add patches, bump up version , then put back to ppa? [16:30] lool: I sent them ages ago. Never got an answer :( [16:30] agoliveira: bug id? [16:30] lool: Blame that to my lack of sleep [16:30] horaceli: yes. and also consider current upstream project and try to create a patch they will accept [16:30] horaceli: have we ever engaged with galculator maintainers? [16:30] horaceli: Yup [16:30] lool: Good question. I was agaes ago, I really don't know if I even created a bug. [16:31] bspencer, seems not [16:31] ok [16:31] horaceli: 17:27 < lool> bspencer: Could it be http://www.xfce.org/projects/mousepad now? [16:31] agoliveira: I heartily recommend you file bugs [16:31] that's the upstream where you got mousepad, right? [16:31] bspencer, lool, yep, I have seen the link [16:31] ok. anything eles horaceli ? [16:32] s/eles/else [16:32] bspencer, I got mousepad actually by `apt-get source mousepad` in my feisty environment months ago [16:32] and then do hildon-ization [16:32] dholbach, Mr DJ :) [16:32] horaceli: ok. anything eles? [16:33] horaceli: I have to run to get to work before the next mtg. [16:33] hi happyCamp [16:33] bspencer, nope [16:33] will be you online tnight [16:33] ok. have a good night. thanks for the checkin. [16:33] lool: Sure, was something that went into the limbo when it was just Tollef and I, I guess [16:33] horaceli: yes. I'll stay until you arrive [16:33] I want to talk about mousepad tomorrow [16:33] for the hand-off [16:33] if you have time [16:33] okay [16:33] ok [16:33] see ya [16:33] see ya [16:34] dholbach, Hey. I sold my Technics SL-1210MK2 this last weekend. I hadn't used them in probably 10 years. I bet you think I should have kept them :) [16:34] But I am going to be moving, so had to clear out stuff. [16:34] HappyCamp: no way :) [16:34] HappyCamp: So moving to Europe? [16:34] lool: I'll be in Paris tomorrow :) [16:35] dholbach: Cool! I'll be spazierganging in Paris Saturday; otherwise, I'm quite away of the city (40 mn S-Bahn) [16:35] lool, not yet. Actually Boston / New Hampshire area [16:35] HappyCamp: Oh ok; I wish you a good move then [16:35] New assignment. Starts in a about 2 months [16:36] lool: Spazierganging! :-) [16:36] lool: we'll be spazierganging a lot too :) [16:36] dholbach, one thing that looked cool was the Denon DN-HS5500 [16:36] dholbach: We could arrange gemeinsamspazierganging for a while [16:37] Just don't ask pitti how it was to walk with me in Paris [16:40] lool: I'm used to walking - no problem [16:40] HappyCamp: what's that? [16:40] * dholbach hugs lool [16:41] lool: I'll make a note of your mobile phone number :) [16:42] Current plan is eating at Ladurée (Printemps / grand magasins), then perhaps walking to some shops around la Madeleine, then going to some shops around les Halles [16:42] See you! [16:43] horaceli: You around? [16:43] horaceli: Could you try with the glib2.0 version in the ppa? [16:43] * dholbach hugs lool [16:44] dholbach, The denon is a turntable like music player. Has a rotating platter like a 7" turntable. You can scratch on it and stuff. [16:44] ahhh ok [16:44] It just looked cool :) [16:45] It is about $850.00 here in the U.S. if you shop around. [16:45] horaceli: Did it work with -Wno-error? [16:46] HappyCamp, Real man use vinil. Period :) [16:46] I guess most of the guys are using the Pioneer stuff [16:47] agoliveira, They have a few products which use viny but you are still mixing MP3s and stuff. Traktor, Serato Scratch Live [16:48] They come with two time-coded vinyl records. And it figures out that you how you are mixing the vinyl [16:48] s/out that you how/out how/ [16:48] HappyCamp: Mix MP3... pfst... I'm talking about hand-mixing stuff with real vinil and felling the beat instead of having software doing it for you! :) [16:48] agoliveira, That is what that stuff does [16:49] google for Serato Scratch Live [16:49] HappyCamp, so I forgive you. [16:49] It is kind of interesting. I doubt I will ever buy it, but it looks cool. [16:50] HappyCamp, I'm just kidding, it's being like 15 years I don't do anything like this. [16:50] Same here. I stopped DJing in 1996, once I graduated from college and got a good paying job :) [16:51] But I was mainly just DJing wedding receptions and such. [16:51] Nothing too exciting, just trying to make money for school. [16:52] HappyCamp, I've done it just for fun, not trying to make any money. [16:54] HappyCamp: ah yeah... I remember [16:55] lool: excellent :) === rustyl is now known as rustyl_ [16:55] * bspencer runs to work. might be a few mins late to mtg... [16:55] noted [16:57] jay: hi [16:57] hi [16:58] jay: I did some extensive culling to the lpia kernel config. Do you have time next week to test? [16:59] amitk, optimized configs? [16:59] amitk: sure, let me know what you want me to test for [17:00] jay, BTW I did a fix to USBC today [17:00] amitk: I mean what to focus on? [17:01] meeting? [17:01] alek_desk: jay: kind of. There was a boatload of stuff that I don't anticipate on menlow architecture, such as hotplug PCI, scsi disks, etc. I just want to make sure that I didn't inadvertently turn off something you depend on [17:01] alek_desk: I saw that, I will wait for a release to be cut before I sync it to hardy-ume [17:01] lool, can you chair please [17:02] amitk: did you figure out the ACPI_VIDEO config issue? [17:02] jay: lets continue after the meeting [17:02] amitk: OK [17:03] We will start the meeting in just a minute. [17:03] #startmeeting [17:03] Meeting started at 18:03. The chair is lool. [17:03] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [17:03] Hi everybody [17:03] * agoliveira waves [17:03] morning [17:03] bspencer: Will be a tad late [17:04] s/: / [17:04] I'll start by reviewing the action items [17:04] Which will soon turn into bashing of my own lateness [17:04] [topic] patm to to produce boot charts for squashfs vs ext3 for hardy CB by 13 March. [cted] [17:04] New Topic: patm to to produce boot charts for squashfs vs ext3 for hardy CB by 13 March. [cted] [17:04] pat_mcgowan: woot [17:05] ToddBrandt will be in in 15 minutes [17:05] Ok, I'll defer this topic until we grab pat [17:06] [topic] davidm & agoliveira to look at what asac provides and get script written by 13 March that does conversion of .po files to xpi structures. [cted] [17:06] New Topic: davidm & agoliveira to look at what asac provides and get script written by 13 March that does conversion of .po files to xpi structures. [cted] [17:06] asac, davidm: How is it going? Good progress I think? [17:06] lool, it is in progress now, I have just about completed the parsing of all strings in a .po file [17:06] Shall we continue tracking in meetings? [17:07] I'm just finishing up the comment lines. [17:07] I don't think it's worth it, it's well in hand [17:07] agree ... i think we can drop it from agenda [17:07] woot [17:08] Ok [17:08] Let's move back to the first topic :) [17:08] [topic] patm to to produce boot charts for squashfs vs ext3 for hardy CB by 13 March. [cted] [17:08] New Topic: patm to to produce boot charts for squashfs vs ext3 for hardy CB by 13 March. [cted] [17:08] pat_mcgowan: Did you produce some boot charts? [17:09] lool, did not produce them but assigned the task to Debbie [17:09] Cool [17:09] so now they will appear sometime soon [17:09] [action] Debbie to produce boot charts for squashfs vs ext3 for hardy CB by 13 March. [cted] [cted] [17:09] ACTION received: Debbie to produce boot charts for squashfs vs ext3 for hardy CB by 13 March. [cted] [cted] [17:09] Poor Debbie, didn't start and is already two weeks late ;) [17:09] btw Debbie is looking at boot speed in general [17:09] Excellent news [17:10] Let's move forward then, thanks for the update [17:10] [topic] kyleN to attach his python script to list gettext domains in use in hildon modules on the langpack research page [17:10] New Topic: kyleN to attach his python script to list gettext domains in use in hildon modules on the langpack research page [17:10] can you please remind me which exact page you'd like me to attach this to? [17:10] kyleN: The langpack research page [17:10] can you be less specific ? [17:10] ;) [17:10] how about a url [17:10] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/MobileLangpack [17:11] will do it [17:11] Should I consider it done? [17:11] I'll do it soon. you can remove it from actions [17:11] Ok [17:11] [topic] kyleN to enhance his python script looking into hildon modules to build a map of where the gettext templates are stored [17:11] New Topic: kyleN to enhance his python script looking into hildon modules to build a map of where the gettext templates are stored [17:11] I think you made some good progress on the script this week [17:12] How is it going? [17:12] here's a summary [17:12] we are talking about grepping source code packages to find domains [17:12] someimtes domains are set with variables [17:12] so getting a definitive list from any tool is not worth the effort [17:12] however, the tool simplifies the process of getting the domains [17:13] you have a list of packages you edit through the gui [17:13] it downloads source packages for them all [17:13] then there is a stage of grepping in which you can edit the various grep commands [17:13] these are then grepped again and post processed [17:14] the reesult is a neat lit of per package domains plus items that need further research [17:14] list [17:14] so it gets you much of the way, with some manual follow up needs [17:14] When you say a list of per package domains, are these gettext domains used by the package or templates provided in the package? [17:14] gettext domains [17:15] so we end up with a list of domains each pkg uses. some pkgs use multiple [17:15] some hildon pkgs, that is, use multiple [17:15] Ones used by the package to request strings or ones for which the package provides strings? [17:15] the former [17:15] Ok; did you also look for the later? [17:15] the second part is yet to be investigaged [17:16] Ok; nice work on the first part; thanks a lot! Could you list the current output of the script on the same wiki page with today's date? [17:16] yes but I have one question, the answer of which may be obvious to many here [17:17] what's the actual list of hildon packages I should be searching. I can apt-cache search "hildon" in a target, but that doesn't seem definitive [17:17] What about searching the ones from a haf checkout? [17:18] what is the clear lsit of hildon package we use so that I can find out what domains they require [17:18] don't understand "haf checkout" [17:18] kyleN: https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk [17:19] A SVN checkout of this URL, which I think I mentionned as a starting point a long long while back [17:19] oh, but wouldn't that be ALL hildon packages, and we don't use some of them, right [17:19] But you might have followed a different path in the mean time [17:19] kyleN: Does it matter? [17:19] we only need domains for the packages we use, not for all of them [17:19] kyleN: One issue with looking at what we have in APT able packages is that we might be missing the packages actually providing the templates [17:20] kyleN: We can easily filter down the list [17:20] that's what I am asking for: the filetered list. however, I can start with the haf svn co [17:20] kyleN: we can prioritize the list to those we use now heavily and those we don't use much, or don't use at all yet [17:20] bspencer_: http://people.dooz.org/~lool/um-meeting-20080320.txt [17:20] but I agree with lool that all are important and will likely be used eventually [17:20] lool: thx. [17:21] ok, I'll get them all. [17:21] by the way, not today. hopefully tomorrow [17:21] Ok [17:21] kyleN: So, the action was about locating the templates [17:21] "kyleN to enhance his python script looking into hildon modules to build a map of where the gettext templates are stored" [17:21] kyleN: Carry on that action? [17:21] yes please. [17:21] [action] kyleN to enhance his python script looking into hildon modules to build a map of where the gettext templates are stored [cted] [17:21] ACTION received: kyleN to enhance his python script looking into hildon modules to build a map of where the gettext templates are stored [cted] [17:21] [topic] kyleN to look into hildon-help; what's is useful for and whether we should package it for UME [cted] [17:21] New Topic: kyleN to look into hildon-help; what's is useful for and whether we should package it for UME [cted] [17:22] sadly not touched, please carry forward [17:22] [action] kyleN to look into hildon-help; what's is useful for and whether we should package it for UME [cted] [cted] [17:22] ACTION received: kyleN to look into hildon-help; what's is useful for and whether we should package it for UME [cted] [cted] [17:22] [topic] lool review progress on Hildon 2.0 updates next week [cted] [17:22] New Topic: lool review progress on Hildon 2.0 updates next week [cted] [17:22] agoliveira, bfiller, horaceli, smagoun, lool: progress? [17:22] horaceli: you still here? [17:22] I've been slacking and still only did one out of two [17:23] lool: I'll need to carry over to next week. did not get to yet. [17:23] lool: At the Bossa Conference this week so, not yet. I hope to complete until next week. [17:23] Also, I intend to upload my work to hardy, but it's in freeze til today for beta [17:23] * ToddBrandt is back [17:23] Ok; carrying on [17:23] [action] lool review progress on Hildon 2.0 updates next week [cted] [cted] [17:23] ACTION received: lool review progress on Hildon 2.0 updates next week [cted] [cted] [17:23] [topic] ToddBrandt to turn on moblin-settings-daemon's watching of the gtk theme gconf keys [cted] [17:23] New Topic: ToddBrandt to turn on moblin-settings-daemon's watching of the gtk theme gconf keys [cted] [17:23] ToddBrandt: woot [17:23] amazing, just in time [17:23] indeed [17:24] lool: I've been fighting fires this week so it's not in 0.47 yet, but I send Kyle a clarification request to understand exactly what you guys want [17:24] So, we're working it offline essentially [17:24] lool, perhaps you can help me articulate it, but here's my thinking [17:25] in desktop, there's a gconf key that is watched by the settings daemon. change the gconf key and it refers to a new gtk directory + theme [17:25] the gtk theme changees automically and dynamically [17:25] however, this does work on mobile [17:25] That's correct [17:26] I believe it may be at least in part because moblin daemon does watch this key [17:26] doe NOT watch this key i mean [17:26] Could be [17:26] so the first step to getting dynamic gtk themes is waching the key [17:26] wait, who changes this key? Do you mean gconf-editor or some theme-switcher applet? [17:26] ToddBrandt: Whatever, usually desktop-background-properties or appearance-properties in a normal desktop [17:26] if you cahnge it manually in desktop, everything happens [17:26] moblin-applets is intended to supply that applet [17:26] well, not desktop-background-properties, sorry, it was some other capplet [17:27] that's where I'm confused [17:27] theme is different from background [17:27] theme switcher applet is not planned by us, but should be by someone :) [17:27] +1 bspencer [17:27] Yes, I didn't mean background [17:28] moblin-applets includes the schema to default those theme keys [17:28] To be clear: there are many types of themes, GNOME theme are "meta themes", pointing to a Gtk+ theme [17:29] There are issues with theme switching in hildon [17:29] the daemon programs watching this gconf property is here to bridge gconf changes over Xsettings changes; the other programs should watch the relevant gconf keys directly [17:29] not least of which is that hildon-desktop seems to hard code the gtkrc files [17:30] So you want moblin-settings-daemon to watch one set of keys for changes, then when it detects them apply those changes to other keys? [17:30] couldwe extend hildonprogram to watch this key so that every application that extends it watches too? === \sh is now known as \sh_away [17:30] Ok; so where do we stand here? bspencer says theme switching isn't in the plans; kyleN you need theme switching? [17:30] we need at lest gtk theme switching [17:30] least [17:30] ToddBrandt: The gnome-settings-daemon watches gconf key changes and updates "xsettings" for the Gtk+ theme at least [17:30] well, gnome-control-center has a theme-switcher applet, it's on the table to be added to moblin-applets at some point in the future [17:31] ToddBrandt: but even if you don't implement the applet, could you watch the key over gconf and update the xsettings like gnome does? [17:31] ToddBrandt: Say, gconftool-2 would be used to switch between themes in your tests [17:31] ok, so which code would I look at to understand exactly what gnome does? [17:31] gnome-settings-daemon [17:32] hmm, ok [17:32] I think xsettings-manager.c is the point [17:32] So basically I should resurrect that code into moblin-settings-daemon, gotcha [17:32] ToddBrandt: gnome-settings-xsettings.c => /desktop/gnome/interface/gtk_key_theme gconf => Gtk/KeyThemeName Xsettings [17:33] gnome-settings-xsettings.c [17:33] Right [17:33] ok, I understand [17:33] We should use something else than /gnome obviously [17:33] our (shortish term) need is not to empower the user to switch themes, but to receive an event and respond by changing the gconf gtk theme key to point to another theme. then, all gtk bjects magically change accordingly [17:33] moblin-settings-xsettings.c is there but is dormant [17:33] ToddBrandt: Is it ok for you to work on this? [17:34] yes, that shouldn't be a problem [17:34] Ok; I'll carry on the same action then; thanks! [17:34] [action] ToddBrandt to turn on moblin-settings-daemon's watching of the gtk theme gconf keys [cted] [cted] [17:34] cool [17:34] ACTION received: ToddBrandt to turn on moblin-settings-daemon's watching of the gtk theme gconf keys [cted] [cted] [17:34] k, thanks, and sorry for the delay [17:34] [topic] sabotage to provide drafts of themes tools guide and implementation options as links on the mailing-list [cted] [17:34] New Topic: sabotage to provide drafts of themes tools guide and implementation options as links on the mailing-list [cted] [17:34] done [17:34] sabotage: You did I think [17:34] sabotage: Congrats! [17:34] sabotage: Now what's the next step? [17:34] [link] http://www.moblin.org/moblin-wiki/ThemeGuide [17:35] LINK received: http://www.moblin.org/moblin-wiki/ThemeGuide [17:35] feedback, debate, beer [17:35] in that order? [17:35] not necessarily [17:35] You can insert beer before debate or feedback [17:35] But don't drive [17:35] sometime beer first helps the process [17:35] thx for posting, sabotage. [17:35] My first feedback is: thanks! [17:35] Nice compilation [17:35] sabotage: do you have plans to resurrect the tools that were created by Peter? [17:36] so, point is, it's in wiki form, and there are areas where detail is still needed [17:36] or update them and release them? [17:36] who is peter? we might want theme creation tools for OEMs ODMs. [17:36] and some places where direction must be set, and this really should be done collaboratively [17:37] I believe Moblin has diverged from Hildon theme tools [17:37] bspencer, no idea who/what you are refering to? [17:37] kyleN: Peter Zhu is on our PRC team. He created a simple extension to the hildon theme creation tools to support our additions. [17:37] oh, yeah... [17:37] Peter Zhu gave these tools to kwiii who created an ubuntu-specific theme [17:37] well, no plans today [17:37] we've been sitting on that theme and tools [17:37] sabotage: ok. [17:37]