[06:07] <dholbach> good morning
[14:34] <\sh> lool: ping claws-mail: I just need to test it still for building on lpia and see if it's starting up with the ubuntu-mobile environment ... you don#t need to do anything...uploading will be done hopefully tonight :) 
[15:09] <cgregan> lool: ping
[15:13] <lool> \sh: Cool!
[15:13] <lool> \sh: Also, you might want to talk with agoliveira (Adilson) when he's around, he's the one working on this port for us
[15:14] <lool> \sh: bfiller from MSG team was also highly interested :)
[15:14] <lool> \sh: ("MSG" => Canonical Mobile Solution Group)
[15:14] <lool> bfiller: ^
[15:14] <lool> bfiller: \sh has been reviewing, porting, and soon will be uploading claws-mail's hildon patch
[15:15] <lool> bfiller: (he updated claws to 3.3.1)
[15:15] <bfiller> lool: great, thanks for the update
[15:15] <lool> cgregan: pongt
[15:15] <lool> cgregan: suggestion: group your ping with a question to allow me to attach an answer to the pong)
[15:16] <lool> or to the pongt
[15:16] <\sh> lool: I documented everything in the bugreport :)
[15:16] <lool> \sh: Excellent, thanks again
[15:16] <lool> asac: http://blog.mozilla.com/blassey/2008/03/17/maemo-buildbot/
[15:16] <cgregan> lool: got it..thanks....is there an iso image for the latest release of ubuntu-mobile that I can use to boot a VM. LIW mentioned
[15:17] <lool> asac: Some recent efforts to build xulrunner for maemo :)
[15:17] <lool> asac: The hard part is probably the arm port for these folks though
[15:17] <lool> cgregan: We don't have ISO images
[15:17] <asac> lool: yes. at least debian can benefit of this i guess
[15:17] <lool> cgregan: Latest MIC might be able to generate some, but we don't build dailies
[15:18] <lool> cgregan: The reason there's no big need for them is that the devices don't have CD-ROM usually, but they do have USB ports
[15:18] <lool> cgregan: So it's easier for us to boot on USB
[15:18] <cgregan> lool: thanks...I will check moblin.
[15:18] <lool> cgregan: This is in the mail I sent you though
[15:19] <cgregan> lool: yes...VM/qemu does not like USB as far as I can see
[15:19] <lool> cgregan: Our dailies are at cdimages.u.c though, not at moblin
[15:19] <lool> moblin is the upstream of the projects we package
[15:19] <asac> lool: we should entangle with them if we need features for xulrunner in the code base.
[15:19] <lool> asac: them == ?
[15:19] <lool> maemo folks?
[15:19] <asac> yes
[15:20] <asac> nokia
[15:20] <lool> Sure
[15:20] <cgregan> lool: correct...actually trying to VM menlow
[15:20] <lool> cgregan: Have fun
[15:20] <cgregan> lool: hehe
[15:20] <lool> not even sarcastic!
[15:20] <mjg59> asac: Who was handling the xulrunner stuff for Nokia?
[15:20] <mjg59> asac: (You know that all their GTK people are leaving next week, right?)
[15:21] <asac> timeless is working for them as far as i know
[15:21] <lool> mjg59: Terrible news :-(
[15:21] <asac> not sure if he works on xul specifically
[15:21] <cgregan> lool: thanks...I told liw I would keep him in the loop, do you want a digest of my findings as well?
[15:21] <asac> mjg59: nokias gtk people ... wow.
[15:21] <lool> cgregan: I certainly do; as I wrote in my email ;)
[15:22] <mjg59> asac: I think there's a couple of managers left, but as far as I know all the coders are leaving
[15:22] <asac> mjg59: any destination or just walking away?
[15:22] <mjg59> asac: I think they're going to the same place, but I don't know where
[15:23] <asac> ;)
[15:23] <asac> yeah
[15:53] <GrueMaster> Other than the XWindows configuration and drivers, what are the differences between Mccaslin and Menlow images?  I'm asking because I'm getting a development system for home in the next couple of weeks, and will be using a mccaslin image for it, but want the latest apps as well.
[15:57] <nrp> cjb: is it devel@lists.laptop.org
[15:57] <nrp> err, wrong chan
[16:21] <bspencer> no adilson...
[16:21] <bspencer> lool: ping?
[16:21] <lool> bspencer: pong
[16:21] <lool> bspencer: Adilson is more or less around, he just came back from Bossa
[16:22] <bspencer> horace and I were trying to make small patches for galculator and mousepad (notepad)
[16:22] <bspencer> we didn't see these in bzr.
[16:22] <bspencer> do we just add our patches to PPA only
[16:22] <agoliveira> bspencer: Hi. Looking for me?
[16:22] <bspencer> and not worry about bzr repo?
[16:22] <bspencer> agoliveira: wow, what response!
[16:23] <bspencer> just a quick Q about galculator and notes
[16:23] <agoliveira> bspencer: lool was vigilant. I was around, just forgot to join here.
[16:23] <bspencer> we have a couple small patches to galculator.  We can add these as patch files to hardy ppa on top of your source
[16:23] <lool> bspencer: Sure; either file patches against hardy proper or upload to the ppa or both :)
[16:23] <agoliveira> bspencer: The right way is to open a bug.
[16:23] <bspencer> the Q was if we need to add these changes to the bzr repo.   But there doesn't seem to be one for galculator or mousepad
[16:23] <lool> bspencer: or upstream :)
[16:24] <lool> bspencer: We bzr-imported maemo stuff, and only that AFAIK
[16:24] <lool> bspencer: We could do the same for more projects
[16:24] <lool> We didn't do this for galculator though
[16:24] <bspencer> lool: ok.  So ppa patches, and upstream.  We'll do it in that order.
[16:24] <agoliveira> bspencer: Well, lool can answer that better than I but he's correct.
[16:24] <bspencer> cool, got it
[16:25] <lool> bspencer: IMO it's best to push it upstream first; but to get packages the soonest, you need to go to the ppa step :)
[16:25] <bspencer> lool: is there an upstream for mousepad?
[16:25] <bspencer> I think it was an imported Maemo app
[16:25] <bspencer> horaceli: is there an upstream for mousepad?
[16:26] <lool> bspencer: Looks like it was http://erikharrison.net/ but is dead now
[16:26] <horaceli> bspencer, I didn't find the place
[16:26] <lool> bspencer: Let me check
[16:26] <bspencer> ok.  so for mousepad, just put patches into the ppa
[16:26] <bspencer> and for galculator put patches into the ppa but also write a patch for upstream inclusion and send to maintainers for discussion
[16:26] <bspencer> perhaps with USE_HILDON flag
[16:27] <lool> Usually, USE_HILDON should be avoided, but if you have no other options, then yes
[16:27] <lool> If you require hildon libs, then you probably need it
[16:27] <lool> bspencer: Could it be http://www.xfce.org/projects/mousepad now?
[16:28] <agoliveira> lool, bspencer, galculator already have hildon patches.
[16:28] <bspencer> lool:  I don't think that a hildon version of galculator can be generated from upstream yet
[16:29] <bspencer> and you mean, only use USE_HILDON if the changes are exactly for hildon, not just mobile changes
[16:29] <lool> horaceli: 17:27 < lool> bspencer: Could it be http://www.xfce.org/projects/mousepad now?
[16:29] <horaceli> agoliveira, where can I get the hildon-ized galculator?
[16:29] <bspencer> how would you specify mobile changes.
[16:29] <bspencer> horaceli: in the hardy ppa :)
[16:29] <lool> Bonus point for bspencer 
[16:29] <agoliveira> horaceli: the same place as everything else: hard
[16:29] <lool> bspencer: I think the galculator patches should be sent upstream too :)
[16:30] <lool> agoliveira: hard?  or rock?
[16:30] <horaceli> bspencer, so I need to get it from hardy ppa first, add patches, bump up version , then put back to ppa?
[16:30] <agoliveira> lool: I sent them ages ago. Never got an answer :(
[16:30] <lool> agoliveira: bug id?
[16:30] <agoliveira> lool: Blame that to my lack of sleep
[16:30] <bspencer> horaceli: yes.  and also consider current upstream project and try to create a patch they will accept
[16:30] <bspencer> horaceli: have we ever engaged with galculator maintainers?
[16:30] <lool> horaceli: Yup
[16:30] <agoliveira> lool: Good question. I was agaes ago, I really don't know if I even created a bug.
[16:31] <horaceli> bspencer, seems not
[16:31] <bspencer> ok
[16:31] <bspencer> horaceli: 17:27 < lool> bspencer: Could it be http://www.xfce.org/projects/mousepad now?
[16:31] <lool> agoliveira: I heartily recommend you file bugs
[16:31] <bspencer> that's the upstream where you got mousepad, right?
[16:31] <horaceli> bspencer, lool, yep, I have seen the link
[16:31] <bspencer> ok.  anything eles horaceli ?
[16:32] <bspencer> s/eles/else
[16:32] <horaceli> bspencer, I got mousepad actually by `apt-get source mousepad` in my feisty environment months ago
[16:32] <horaceli> and then do hildon-ization
[16:32] <HappyCamp> dholbach, Mr DJ :)
[16:32] <bspencer> horaceli: ok.  anything eles?
[16:33] <bspencer> horaceli: I have to run to get to work before the next mtg.
[16:33] <dholbach> hi happyCamp
[16:33] <horaceli> bspencer, nope
[16:33] <horaceli> will be you online tnight
[16:33] <bspencer> ok.  have a good night.  thanks for the checkin.  
[16:33] <agoliveira> lool: Sure, was something that went into the limbo when it was just Tollef and I, I guess
[16:33] <bspencer> horaceli: yes.  I'll stay until you arrive
[16:33] <horaceli> I want to talk about mousepad tomorrow
[16:33] <bspencer> for the hand-off
[16:33] <horaceli> if you have time
[16:33] <horaceli> okay
[16:33] <bspencer> ok
[16:33] <bspencer> see ya
[16:33] <horaceli> see ya
[16:34] <HappyCamp> dholbach, Hey.  I sold my Technics SL-1210MK2 this last weekend.  I hadn't used them in probably 10 years.  I bet you think I should have kept them :)
[16:34] <HappyCamp> But I am going to be moving, so had to clear out stuff.
[16:34] <dholbach> HappyCamp: no way :)
[16:34] <lool> HappyCamp: So moving to Europe?
[16:34] <dholbach> lool: I'll be in Paris tomorrow :)
[16:35] <lool> dholbach: Cool!  I'll be spazierganging in Paris Saturday; otherwise, I'm quite away of the city (40 mn S-Bahn)
[16:35] <HappyCamp> lool, not yet.  Actually Boston / New Hampshire area
[16:35] <lool> HappyCamp: Oh ok; I wish you a good move then
[16:35] <HappyCamp> New assignment.  Starts in a about 2 months
[16:36] <dholbach> lool: Spazierganging! :-)
[16:36] <dholbach> lool: we'll be spazierganging a lot too :)
[16:36] <HappyCamp> dholbach, one thing that looked cool was the Denon DN-HS5500
[16:36] <lool> dholbach: We could arrange gemeinsamspazierganging for a while
[16:37] <lool> Just don't ask pitti how it was to walk with me in Paris
[16:40] <dholbach> lool: I'm used to walking - no problem
[16:40] <dholbach> HappyCamp: what's that?
[16:40]  * dholbach hugs lool
[16:41] <dholbach> lool: I'll make a note of your mobile phone number :)
[16:42] <lool> Current plan is eating at Ladurée (Printemps / grand magasins), then perhaps walking to some shops around la Madeleine, then going to some shops around les Halles
[16:42] <lool> See you!
[16:43] <lool> horaceli: You around?
[16:43] <lool> horaceli: Could you try with the glib2.0 version in the ppa?
[16:43]  * dholbach hugs lool
[16:44] <HappyCamp> dholbach, The denon is a turntable like music player.  Has a rotating platter like a 7" turntable.  You can scratch on it and stuff.
[16:44] <dholbach> ahhh ok
[16:44] <HappyCamp> It just looked cool :)
[16:45] <HappyCamp> It is about $850.00 here in the U.S. if you shop around.
[16:45] <lool> horaceli: Did it work with -Wno-error?
[16:46] <agoliveira> HappyCamp, Real man use vinil. Period :)
[16:46] <HappyCamp> I guess most of the guys are using the Pioneer stuff
[16:47] <HappyCamp> agoliveira, They have a few products which use viny but you are still mixing MP3s and stuff.  Traktor, Serato Scratch Live
[16:48] <HappyCamp> They come with two time-coded vinyl records.  And it figures out that you how you are mixing the vinyl
[16:48] <HappyCamp> s/out that you how/out how/
[16:48] <agoliveira> HappyCamp: Mix MP3... pfst... I'm talking about hand-mixing stuff with real vinil and felling the beat instead of having software doing it for you! :)
[16:48] <HappyCamp> agoliveira, That is what that stuff does
[16:49] <HappyCamp> google for Serato Scratch Live
[16:49] <agoliveira> HappyCamp, so I forgive you.
[16:49] <HappyCamp> It is kind of interesting.  I doubt I will ever buy it, but it looks cool.
[16:50] <agoliveira> HappyCamp, I'm just kidding, it's being like 15 years I don't do anything like this.
[16:50] <HappyCamp> Same here.  I stopped DJing in 1996, once I graduated from college and got a good paying job :)
[16:51] <HappyCamp> But I was mainly just DJing wedding receptions and such.
[16:51] <HappyCamp> Nothing too exciting, just trying to make money for school.
[16:52] <agoliveira> HappyCamp, I've done it just for fun, not trying to make any money.
[16:54] <dholbach> HappyCamp: ah yeah... I remember
[16:55] <dholbach> lool: excellent :)
[16:55]  * bspencer runs to work.  might be a few mins late to mtg...
[16:55] <lool> noted
[16:57] <amitk> jay: hi
[16:57] <jay> hi
[16:58] <amitk> jay: I did some extensive culling to the lpia kernel config. Do you have time next week to test?
[16:59] <alek_desk> amitk, optimized configs?
[16:59] <jay> amitk: sure, let me know what you want me to test for
[17:00] <alek_desk> jay, BTW I did a fix to USBC today
[17:00] <jay> amitk: I mean what to focus on?
[17:01] <agoliveira> meeting?
[17:01] <amitk> alek_desk: jay: kind of. There was a boatload of stuff that I don't anticipate on menlow architecture, such as hotplug PCI, scsi disks, etc. I just want to make sure that I didn't inadvertently turn off something you depend on
[17:01] <jay> alek_desk: I saw that, I will wait for a release to be cut before I sync it to hardy-ume
[17:01] <davidm> lool, can you chair please
[17:02] <jay> amitk: did you figure out the ACPI_VIDEO config issue?
[17:02] <amitk> jay: lets continue after the meeting
[17:02] <jay> amitk: OK
[17:03] <davidm> We will start the meeting in just a minute.
[17:03] <lool> #startmeeting
[17:03] <MootBot> Meeting started at 18:03. The chair is lool.
[17:03] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[17:03] <lool> Hi everybody
[17:03]  * agoliveira waves
[17:03] <rustyl_> morning
[17:03] <lool> bspencer: Will be a tad late
[17:04] <lool> s/: /
[17:04] <lool> I'll start by reviewing the action items
[17:04] <lool> Which will soon turn into bashing of my own lateness
[17:04] <lool> [topic] patm to to produce boot charts for squashfs vs ext3 for hardy CB by 13 March. [cted]
[17:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  patm to to produce boot charts for squashfs vs ext3 for hardy CB by 13 March. [cted] 
[17:04] <lool> pat_mcgowan: woot
[17:05] <AtomicPunk> ToddBrandt will be in in 15 minutes
[17:05] <lool> Ok, I'll defer this topic until we grab pat
[17:06] <lool> [topic] davidm & agoliveira to look at what asac provides and get script written by 13 March that does conversion of .po files to xpi structures. [cted]
[17:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  davidm & agoliveira to look at what asac provides and get script written by 13 March that does conversion of .po files to xpi structures. [cted] 
[17:06] <lool> asac, davidm: How is it going?  Good progress I think?
[17:06] <davidm> lool, it is in progress now, I have just about completed the parsing of all strings in a .po file
[17:06] <lool> Shall we continue tracking in meetings?
[17:07] <davidm> I'm just finishing up the comment lines.
[17:07] <davidm> I don't think it's worth it, it's well in hand
[17:07] <asac> agree ... i think we can drop it from agenda
[17:07] <pat_mcgowan> woot
[17:08] <lool> Ok
[17:08] <lool> Let's move back to the first topic :)
[17:08] <lool> [topic] patm to to produce boot charts for squashfs vs ext3 for hardy CB by 13 March. [cted]
[17:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  patm to to produce boot charts for squashfs vs ext3 for hardy CB by 13 March. [cted] 
[17:08] <lool> pat_mcgowan: Did you produce some boot charts?
[17:09] <pat_mcgowan> lool, did not produce them but assigned the task to Debbie
[17:09] <lool> Cool
[17:09] <pat_mcgowan> so now they will appear sometime soon
[17:09] <lool> [action] Debbie to produce boot charts for squashfs vs ext3 for hardy CB by 13 March. [cted] [cted]
[17:09] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Debbie to produce boot charts for squashfs vs ext3 for hardy CB by 13 March. [cted] [cted] 
[17:09] <lool> Poor Debbie, didn't start and is already two weeks late ;)
[17:09] <pat_mcgowan> btw Debbie is looking at boot speed in general
[17:09] <lool> Excellent news
[17:10] <lool> Let's move forward then, thanks for the update
[17:10] <lool> [topic] kyleN to attach his python script to list gettext domains in use in hildon modules on the langpack research page
[17:10] <MootBot> New Topic:  kyleN to attach his python script to list gettext domains in use in hildon modules on the langpack research page 
[17:10] <kyleN> can you please remind me which exact page you'd like me to attach this to?
[17:10] <lool> kyleN: The langpack research page
[17:10] <kyleN> can you be less specific ?
[17:10] <kyleN> ;)
[17:10] <kyleN> how about a url
[17:10] <lool> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/MobileLangpack
[17:11] <kyleN> will do it
[17:11] <lool> Should I consider it done?
[17:11] <kyleN> I'll do it soon. you can remove it from actions
[17:11] <lool> Ok
[17:11] <lool> [topic] kyleN to enhance his python script looking into hildon modules to build a map of where the gettext templates are stored
[17:11] <MootBot> New Topic:  kyleN to enhance his python script looking into hildon modules to build a map of where the gettext templates are stored 
[17:11] <lool> I think you made some good progress on the script this week
[17:12] <lool> How is it going?
[17:12] <kyleN> here's a summary
[17:12] <kyleN> we are talking about grepping source code packages to find domains
[17:12] <kyleN> someimtes domains are set with variables
[17:12] <kyleN> so getting a definitive list from any tool is not worth the effort
[17:12] <kyleN> however, the tool simplifies the process of getting the domains
[17:13] <kyleN> you have a list of packages you edit through the gui
[17:13] <kyleN> it downloads source packages for them all
[17:13] <kyleN> then there is a stage of grepping in which you can edit the various grep commands
[17:13] <kyleN> these are then grepped again and post processed
[17:14] <kyleN> the reesult is a neat lit of per package domains plus items that need further research
[17:14] <kyleN> list
[17:14] <kyleN> so it gets you much of the way, with some manual follow up needs
[17:14] <lool> When you say a list of per package domains, are these gettext domains used by the package or templates provided in the package?
[17:14] <kyleN> gettext domains
[17:15] <kyleN> so we end up with a list of domains each pkg uses. some pkgs use multiple
[17:15] <kyleN> some hildon pkgs, that is, use multiple
[17:15] <lool> Ones used by the package to request strings or ones for which the package provides strings?
[17:15] <kyleN> the former
[17:15] <lool> Ok; did you also look for the later?
[17:15] <kyleN> the second part is yet to be investigaged
[17:16] <lool> Ok; nice work on the first part; thanks a lot!  Could you list the current output of the script on the same wiki page with today's date?
[17:16] <kyleN> yes but I have one question, the answer of which may be obvious to many here
[17:17] <kyleN> what's the actual list of hildon packages I should be searching. I can apt-cache search "hildon" in a target, but that doesn't seem definitive
[17:17] <lool> What about searching the ones from a haf checkout?
[17:18] <kyleN> what is the clear lsit of hildon package we use so that I can find out what domains they require
[17:18] <kyleN> don't understand "haf checkout"
[17:18] <lool> kyleN: https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk
[17:19] <lool> A SVN checkout of this URL, which I think I mentionned as a starting point a long long while back
[17:19] <kyleN> oh, but wouldn't that be ALL hildon packages, and we don't use some of them, right
[17:19] <lool> But you might have followed a different path in the mean time
[17:19] <lool> kyleN: Does it matter?
[17:19] <kyleN> we only need domains for the packages we use, not for all of them
[17:19] <lool> kyleN: One issue with looking at what we have in APT able packages is that we might be missing the packages actually providing the templates
[17:20] <lool> kyleN: We can easily filter down the list
[17:20] <kyleN> that's what I am asking for: the filetered list. however, I can start with the haf svn co
[17:20] <bspencer> kyleN: we can prioritize the list to those we use now heavily and those we don't use much, or don't use at all yet
[17:20] <lool> bspencer_: http://people.dooz.org/~lool/um-meeting-20080320.txt
[17:20] <bspencer> but I agree with lool  that all are important and will likely be used eventually
[17:20] <bspencer> lool:  thx.
[17:21] <kyleN> ok, I'll get them all.
[17:21] <kyleN> by the way, not today. hopefully tomorrow
[17:21] <lool> Ok
[17:21] <lool> kyleN: So, the action was about locating the templates
[17:21] <lool> "kyleN to enhance his python script looking into hildon modules to build a map of where the gettext templates are stored"
[17:21] <lool> kyleN: Carry on that action?
[17:21] <kyleN> yes please.
[17:21] <lool> [action] kyleN to enhance his python script looking into hildon modules to build a map of where the gettext templates are stored [cted]
[17:21] <MootBot> ACTION received:  kyleN to enhance his python script looking into hildon modules to build a map of where the gettext templates are stored [cted] 
[17:21] <lool> [topic] kyleN to look into hildon-help; what's is useful for and whether we should package it for UME [cted]
[17:21] <MootBot> New Topic:  kyleN to look into hildon-help; what's is useful for and whether we should package it for UME [cted] 
[17:22] <kyleN> sadly not touched, please carry forward
[17:22] <lool> [action] kyleN to look into hildon-help; what's is useful for and whether we should package it for UME [cted] [cted]
[17:22] <MootBot> ACTION received:  kyleN to look into hildon-help; what's is useful for and whether we should package it for UME [cted] [cted] 
[17:22] <lool> [topic] lool review progress on Hildon 2.0 updates next week [cted]
[17:22] <MootBot> New Topic:  lool review progress on Hildon 2.0 updates next week [cted] 
[17:22] <lool> agoliveira, bfiller, horaceli, smagoun, lool: progress?
[17:22] <bspencer> horaceli: you still here?
[17:22] <lool> I've been slacking and still only did one out of two
[17:23] <bfiller> lool: I'll need to carry over to next week. did not get to yet.
[17:23] <agoliveira> lool: At the Bossa Conference this week so, not yet. I hope to complete until next week.
[17:23] <lool> Also, I intend to upload my work to hardy, but it's in freeze til today for beta
[17:23]  * ToddBrandt is back
[17:23] <lool> Ok; carrying on
[17:23] <lool> [action] lool review progress on Hildon 2.0 updates next week [cted] [cted]
[17:23] <MootBot> ACTION received:  lool review progress on Hildon 2.0 updates next week [cted] [cted] 
[17:23] <lool> [topic] ToddBrandt to turn on moblin-settings-daemon's watching of the gtk theme gconf keys [cted]
[17:23] <MootBot> New Topic:  ToddBrandt to turn on moblin-settings-daemon's watching of the gtk theme gconf keys [cted] 
[17:23] <lool> ToddBrandt: woot
[17:23] <ToddBrandt> amazing, just in time
[17:23] <lool> indeed
[17:24] <ToddBrandt> lool: I've been fighting fires this week so it's not in 0.47 yet, but I send Kyle a clarification request to understand exactly what you guys want
[17:24] <ToddBrandt> So, we're working it offline essentially
[17:24] <kyleN> lool, perhaps you can help me articulate it, but here's my thinking
[17:25] <kyleN> in desktop, there's a gconf key that is watched by the settings daemon. change the gconf key and it refers to a new gtk directory + theme
[17:25] <kyleN> the gtk theme changees automically and dynamically
[17:25] <kyleN> however, this does work on mobile
[17:25] <lool> That's correct
[17:26] <kyleN> I believe it may be at least in part because moblin daemon does watch this key
[17:26] <kyleN> doe NOT watch this key i mean
[17:26] <lool> Could be
[17:26] <kyleN> so the first step to getting dynamic gtk themes is waching the key
[17:26] <ToddBrandt> wait, who changes this key? Do you mean gconf-editor or some theme-switcher applet?
[17:26] <lool> ToddBrandt: Whatever, usually desktop-background-properties or appearance-properties in a normal desktop
[17:26] <kyleN> if you cahnge it manually in desktop, everything happens
[17:26] <ToddBrandt> moblin-applets is intended to supply that applet
[17:26] <lool> well, not desktop-background-properties, sorry, it was some other capplet
[17:27] <ToddBrandt> that's where I'm confused
[17:27] <bspencer> theme is different from background
[17:27] <bspencer> theme switcher applet is not planned by us, but should be by someone :)
[17:27] <kyleN> +1 bspencer 
[17:27] <lool> Yes, I didn't mean background
[17:28] <ToddBrandt> moblin-applets includes the schema to default those theme keys
[17:28] <lool> To be clear: there are many types of themes, GNOME theme are "meta themes", pointing to a Gtk+ theme
[17:29] <kyleN> There are issues with theme switching in hildon
[17:29] <lool> the daemon programs watching this gconf property is here to bridge gconf changes over Xsettings changes; the other programs should watch the relevant gconf keys directly
[17:29] <kyleN> not least of which is that hildon-desktop seems to hard code the gtkrc files
[17:30] <ToddBrandt> So you want moblin-settings-daemon to watch one set of keys for changes, then when it detects them apply those changes to other keys?
[17:30] <kyleN> couldwe extend hildonprogram to watch this key so that every application that extends it watches too?
[17:30] <lool> Ok; so where do we stand here?  bspencer says theme switching isn't in the plans; kyleN you need theme switching?
[17:30] <kyleN> we need at lest gtk theme switching
[17:30] <kyleN> least
[17:30] <lool> ToddBrandt: The gnome-settings-daemon watches gconf key changes and updates "xsettings" for the Gtk+ theme at least
[17:30] <ToddBrandt> well, gnome-control-center has a theme-switcher applet, it's on the table to be added to moblin-applets at some point in the future
[17:31] <lool> ToddBrandt: but even if you don't implement the applet, could you watch the key over gconf and update the xsettings like gnome does?
[17:31] <lool> ToddBrandt: Say, gconftool-2 would be used to switch between themes in your tests
[17:31] <ToddBrandt> ok, so which code would I look at to understand exactly what gnome does?
[17:31] <lool> gnome-settings-daemon
[17:32] <ToddBrandt> hmm, ok
[17:32] <lool> I think xsettings-manager.c is the point
[17:32] <ToddBrandt> So basically I should resurrect that code into moblin-settings-daemon, gotcha
[17:32] <lool> ToddBrandt: gnome-settings-xsettings.c => /desktop/gnome/interface/gtk_key_theme gconf => Gtk/KeyThemeName Xsettings
[17:33] <ToddBrandt> gnome-settings-xsettings.c
[17:33] <lool> Right
[17:33] <ToddBrandt> ok, I understand
[17:33] <lool> We should use something else than /gnome obviously
[17:33] <kyleN> our (shortish term)  need is not to empower the user to switch themes, but to receive an event and respond by changing the gconf gtk theme key to point to another theme. then, all gtk bjects magically change accordingly
[17:33] <ToddBrandt> moblin-settings-xsettings.c is there but is dormant
[17:33] <lool> ToddBrandt: Is it ok for you to work on this?
[17:34] <ToddBrandt> yes, that shouldn't be a problem
[17:34] <lool> Ok; I'll carry on the same action then; thanks!
[17:34] <lool> [action] ToddBrandt to turn on moblin-settings-daemon's watching of the gtk theme gconf keys [cted] [cted]
[17:34] <kyleN> cool
[17:34] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ToddBrandt to turn on moblin-settings-daemon's watching of the gtk theme gconf keys [cted] [cted] 
[17:34] <ToddBrandt> k, thanks, and sorry for the delay
[17:34] <lool> [topic] sabotage to provide drafts of themes tools guide and implementation options as links on the mailing-list [cted]
[17:34] <MootBot> New Topic:  sabotage to provide drafts of themes tools guide and implementation options as links on the mailing-list [cted] 
[17:34] <sabotage> done
[17:34] <lool> sabotage: You did I think
[17:34] <lool> sabotage: Congrats!
[17:34] <lool> sabotage: Now what's the next step?
[17:34] <lool> [link] http://www.moblin.org/moblin-wiki/ThemeGuide
[17:35] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.moblin.org/moblin-wiki/ThemeGuide 
[17:35] <sabotage> feedback, debate, beer
[17:35] <kyleN> in that order?
[17:35] <sabotage> not necessarily
[17:35] <lool> You can insert beer before debate or feedback
[17:35] <lool> But don't drive
[17:35] <sabotage> sometime beer first helps the process
[17:35] <kyleN> thx for posting, sabotage. 
[17:35] <lool> My first feedback is: thanks!
[17:35] <lool> Nice compilation
[17:35] <bspencer> sabotage: do you have plans to resurrect the tools that were created by Peter?
[17:36] <sabotage> so, point is, it's in wiki form, and there are areas where detail is still needed
[17:36] <bspencer> or update them and release them?
[17:36] <kyleN> who is peter? we might want theme creation tools for OEMs ODMs. 
[17:36] <sabotage> and some places where direction must be set, and this really should be done collaboratively 
[17:37] <kyleN> I believe Moblin has diverged from Hildon theme tools
[17:37] <sabotage> bspencer, no idea who/what you are refering to?
[17:37] <bspencer> kyleN: Peter Zhu is on our PRC team.  He created a simple extension to the hildon theme creation tools to support our additions. 
[17:37] <sabotage> oh, yeah...
[17:37] <bspencer> Peter Zhu gave these tools to kwiii who created an ubuntu-specific theme
[17:37] <sabotage> well, no plans today
[17:37] <bspencer> we've been sitting on that theme and tools 
[17:37] <bspencer> sabotage: ok.
[17:37] <kyleN> are these tools suitable for OEMs?
[17:37] <sabotage> and that is one of the ares that needs further community discussion
[17:37] <bspencer> kyleN: they may be, but they need an owner.  
[17:38] <sabotage> I'm not sure I liked the path that the tools peter was working was going
[17:38] <bspencer> sabotage: right.   kyleN that's why they need an owner :)
[17:38] <kyleN> so I +1 sabotage's call for someone to bite this bullet, and no I am not volunteering right now. but it's absence will continue to plague us, I believe
[17:39] <sabotage> so action would be for stakeholders to review the tools section of the theme guide and lets start discussing options
[17:39] <lool> So, do you people have an exact idea of what needs discussing, or do we need to discuss a general direction for these tools?
[17:39] <sabotage> the problem statement is in my doc
[17:39] <sabotage> options are presented
[17:39] <bspencer> we have some ideas, I think sabotage has described the issues.
[17:39] <lool> sabotage: The part about changing this or that gtkrc?
[17:39] <sabotage> and it needs review 
[17:40] <sabotage> no, the part about the dependancies on hildon layout and template files today
[17:40] <sabotage> and that they don't meet the broader needs and flixibility going forward
[17:41] <kyleN> i think there needs to be a set of requriements for themeing defined
[17:41] <kyleN> broadly speaking
[17:41] <sabotage> we need to come up with a plan on if moblin themes will be compatible with hildon, vice versa, or totally new/different
[17:41] <lool> Ok; is this something which we need to settle right now?  Could it wait for e.g. UDS?
[17:41] <sabotage> not now, a sprint or UDS or other forum would be better
[17:42] <sabotage> face 2 face is best
[17:42] <kyleN> UDS sounds reasonable
[17:42] <lool> Ok; sabotage could you add a simple blueprint (mostly empty for now) for this?
[17:42] <kyleN> it's not trivial
[17:42] <lool> sabotage: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile
[17:43] <sabotage> give me an action...I just got a call I need to take...
[17:43] <sabotage> sorry
[17:43] <lool> That's fine
[17:43] <bspencer> I think we can expose the tools we have now and you could look at them
[17:43] <lool> amitk: Which was the blueprint you created recently?
[17:43] <bspencer> and also kwii's theme.
[17:43] <lool> bspencer: Sounds reasonable
[17:44] <lool> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntu-mobile-kernel-version
[17:44] <lool> [link] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntu-mobile-kernel-version
[17:44] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntu-mobile-kernel-version 
[17:44] <lool> This is an example empty blueprint which amitk created last week and which we intend to discuss at next UDS (uds-intrepid, in Prague)
[17:45] <lool> [action] sabotage to create a blueprint entry at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/
[17:45] <MootBot> ACTION received:  sabotage to create a blueprint entry at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/ 
[17:45] <amitk> one thing I just realised... it isn't under ~ubuntu-mobile
[17:45] <lool> amitk: Please subscribe u-m
[17:45] <lool> amitk: This is how I failed finding it at first sight ;)
[17:45] <lool> [topic] lool to document tarball release + ppa upload process and patch addition + submission process
[17:45] <MootBot> New Topic:  lool to document tarball release + ppa upload process and patch addition + submission process 
[17:45] <lool> This is the moment where you can all bash me
[17:46] <lool> Executive status: zero
[17:46] <amitk> done
[17:46] <lool> So, I simply didn't update any moblin module to a tarball release, and this really sucks; I'm very sorry
[17:46]  * bspencer thinks look is a loser and wonders how he rose to the status of MOTU
[17:46] <lool> This subsequently prevented rustyl_ to assign the other updates
[17:46]  * rustyl_ is relieved
[17:46] <bspencer> s/look/lool
[17:46] <lool> bspencer: I'm even core dev now
[17:47] <bspencer> unbelievable
[17:47] <lool> Yeah, they accept almost anybody
[17:47] <lool> So, I'll have to reconduct the action; as a bonus, I should be able to push to hardy as we were in freeze this week
[17:47] <lool> [action] lool to document tarball release + ppa upload process and patch addition + submission process [cted]
[17:47] <MootBot> ACTION received:  lool to document tarball release + ppa upload process and patch addition + submission process [cted] 
[17:48] <lool> [topic] lool to send rustyl_ steps to update ppa packages for the new tarball based release process
[17:48] <MootBot> New Topic:  lool to send rustyl_ steps to update ppa packages for the new tarball based release process 
[17:48] <lool> Hmm dito
[17:48] <rustyl_> yeap
[17:48] <lool> [action] lool to send rustyl_ steps to update ppa packages for the new tarball based release process [cted]
[17:48] <MootBot> ACTION received:  lool to send rustyl_ steps to update ppa packages for the new tarball based release process [cted] 
[17:48] <lool> rustyl_: My sincere apologies; I hate blocking other people
[17:48] <lool> [topic] rustyl_ to assign ppa packages updates for the new tarball based release process
[17:48] <MootBot> New Topic:  rustyl_ to assign ppa packages updates for the new tarball based release process 
[17:48] <rustyl_> just means other items got more cycles
[17:49] <lool> rustyl_: So, sorry again; allow me to carry on
[17:49] <lool> [action] rustyl_ to assign ppa packages updates for the new tarball based release process [cted as blocked by lool last week]
[17:49] <MootBot> ACTION received:  rustyl_ to assign ppa packages updates for the new tarball based release process [cted as blocked by lool last week] 
[17:49] <lool> Moving to today's items now
[17:49] <lool> [topic] bfiller: how to keep moblin-applets in sync with gnome-control-center/gnome-system-tools
[17:49] <MootBot> New Topic:  bfiller: how to keep moblin-applets in sync with gnome-control-center/gnome-system-tools 
[17:50] <lool> (WARNING: 10mn left)
[17:50] <lool> bfiller: woot
[17:50] <bfiller> my understanding is moblin-applets forked from gnome-control-center/gnome-system-tools a while back. Lots of things have changed in the gnome packages in Hardy (many related to PolicyKit/ConsoleKit). moblin-applets needs to sync up. I filed one bug (#203311) on Date/Time that is an example, there are probably others.
[17:50] <bfiller> I'm concerned about this being a general problem for each release. How will this be managed? Seems a better approach would have been not to fork, but to create patches and get them included in Gnome. Gnome Mobile would most likely be interested.
[17:50] <lool> I suppose ToddBrandt would have an opinion on that
[17:50] <lool> ToddBrandt: ^
[17:50] <ToddBrandt> reading
[17:51] <ToddBrandt> bfiller: yea I've seen alot of those upgrades, some are pretty neat
[17:51] <ToddBrandt> we'll keep that in the wishlist for now
[17:51] <ToddBrandt> until all the bugs are done with
[17:51] <ToddBrandt> which should be very soon
[17:51] <bfiller> ToddBrandt: keep what in the wishlist?
[17:52] <ToddBrandt> bfiller: pulling in some of the gnome-control-center 20.1+ upgrades
[17:52] <bfiller> ToddBrandt: I don't think it's a wishlist thing. I think it has to be done otherwise some things won't work..
[17:52] <bfiller> ToddBrandt: like Date/Time settings
[17:53] <ToddBrandt> bfiller: actually I've completely revamped date/time for 0.47 mooblin-applets, it looks nothing like gnome-control-center anymore
[17:53] <ToddBrandt> we'll take it on a case by case basis
[17:54] <bfiller> ToddBrandt: so it doesn't use gksu to launch the applet anymore?
[17:54] <ToddBrandt> bfiller: nope, I added moblin-system-daemon, which runs as root, and has a connection to the system backends and the touchscreen driver
[17:55] <ToddBrandt> bfiller: So now all the low level stuff that used to requre gksu and root access go through a DBUS api to moblin-system-daemon
[17:55] <ToddBrandt> things run much more smoothly this way
[17:55] <lool> Where's the access policy defined?
[17:56] <bfiller> ToddBrandt: sure that probably works. But I guess my point is Hardy and Gnome do it a different way now and we are not taking advantage of it..
[17:56] <ToddBrandt> Well, I just expose 6 DBUS functions to the user domain, any user space app can access the daemon
[17:56] <davidm> 4 minute warning
[17:56] <lool> (a root running daemon which you can talk to over dbus makes my security ears beep)
[17:56] <davidm> loudly I might add
[17:56] <ToddBrandt> Mithrandir suggested it way back when
[17:57] <ToddBrandt> I was going to update the sudoers file but that got poo-pooed
[17:57] <lool> Well in GNOME it's like that *but* there's policykit/consolekit to actually grant dbus access
[17:57] <lool> But perhaps we're far of the original topic
[17:57] <ToddBrandt> I'm sure there's always something else we have to add, send me a pointer to an example and I'll take a look
[17:57] <lool> If bfiller allows me to reword: is moblin-applets a perpetual fork, or will you rebase?
[17:58] <bfiller> lool: yes, good question
[17:58] <ToddBrandt> perpetual fork, we will rebase only for things we really like
[17:58] <ToddBrandt> the intent is for moblin-applets to split off completely and be very MID specific
[17:58] <lool> ToddBrandt: Will you look into cherry picking these regularly, or are you expecting to be requested to do this?
[17:59] <ToddBrandt> not regularly, only in extremely rare instances
[17:59] <davidm> 1 minute warning
[17:59] <lool> bfiller: Does that answer the question?
[17:59] <bspencer> lool: the merging with Hardy hasn't been on our plate.  We haven't scoped that for moblin-applets.  We'll chat about that and let's talk again next week
[17:59] <bfiller> lool: it does, but I can't say I agree with the approach. Will be very problematic to maintain
[17:59] <bspencer> davidm:  action:  ToddBrandt to talk to bspencer and mawhalen about this task and bfiller and lool, etc.
[17:59] <lool> bspencer: It's not about hardy I think, but rather about upstream's module
[18:00] <lool> bfiller: I do agree with you
[18:00] <bspencer> lool: I see.  Well then it is a wishlist item -- to be done later.
[18:00] <davidm> bspencer, actually lool is chairing the meeting
[18:00] <lool> I think it's a question of long term strategy
[18:00] <bspencer> davidm: oh.  you were such a consistent reminder of time.
[18:00] <lool> bspencer: I don't understand the action
[18:01] <bspencer> lool: ToddBrandt has no direction to get hardy working 
[18:01] <bspencer> with moblin-applets
[18:01] <lool> bfiller: Perhaps an UDS session is a better place to discuss this?
[18:01] <bfiller> lool: sure
[18:01] <lool> bspencer: I'm not sure it's related to hardy at all
[18:01] <davidm> action:  ToddBrandt to talk to bspencer and mawhalen about the merging with Hardy and bfiller and lool, etc.
[18:01] <bspencer> as far as upstream, I think the task is quite a bit more involved as we have to consider our long-term strategy for applets.
[18:02] <lool> Well if everybody want that action that I don't understand, you'll get it :)
[18:02] <bfiller> bspencer: but doesn't moblin-applets have to work properly with Hardy?
[18:02] <bspencer> lool: so UDS is a good place to discuss.
[18:02] <lool> [action] ToddBrandt to talk to bspencer and mawhalen about the merging with Hardy and bfiller and lool, etc.
[18:02] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ToddBrandt to talk to bspencer and mawhalen about the merging with Hardy and bfiller and lool, etc. 
[18:02] <bspencer> bfiller: I think it does for you, yes.
[18:02] <ToddBrandt> bfiller: yes, but not necessarily in concert with gnome-control-center's latest
[18:02] <ToddBrandt> it's a compeltely separate package now
[18:02] <bspencer> lool:  bfiller   I see two separate issues:  working in hardy.   patches upstream.
[18:02] <bfiller> bspencer, ToddBrandt : ok, so specific bugs will be fixed but independent of gnome?
[18:03] <bfiller> bspencer: yes
[18:03] <ToddBrandt> yes, exactly
[18:03] <bspencer> bfiller: in the short term, yes.  
[18:03] <lool> bspencer: There's the overall "fitting with a modern GNOME platform" issue which you can connect with "staying relevant" :)
[18:03] <bspencer> absolutely.  
[18:04] <bfiller> bspencer: works for me
[18:04] <lool> bfiller: topic closed?
[18:04] <bfiller> lool: yes
[18:04] <lool> [topic] davidm: How many Intel folks have their UDS plans made?
[18:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  davidm: How many Intel folks have their UDS plans made? 
[18:04] <bspencer> can you post a link to the UDS info?
[18:05] <lool> So, rustyl_, bspencer, ToddBrandt, sabotage ...
[18:05]  * agoliveira thought davidm has asked something in the "light bulb change" line
[18:05] <lool> bspencer: I'm actually surprized that I can't find one
[18:06] <lool> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-intrepid isn't very helpful
[18:06] <bspencer> ok.  where and when ?
[18:06] <lool> We have a private page at Canonical
[18:06] <lool> Oh, renamed
[18:06] <lool> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Intrepid
[18:06] <rustyl_> lool, i don't know the travel plans for UDS
[18:06] <lool> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Intrepid
[18:06] <davidm> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Intrepid?highlight=%28UDS%29
[18:06] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Intrepid 
[18:06] <bfiller> bspencer: Prague, May 18-25
[18:06] <lool> Geez, you weren't put in the loop?
[18:07] <davidm> It's pretty important to attend.
[18:07] <bspencer> bfiller: lool  we'll discuss.  I don't know yet about our plans.
[18:07] <davidm> I've suggested folks to  Mauri and Don
[18:07] <bspencer> but I have never been to Prague.  I know if rusty can go all will be well.
[18:07] <bspencer> all hail rusty.
[18:08] <lool> The more Intel folks, the better :)
[18:08] <lool> This is a great occasion to sit face to face, and we have a whole week of coffee and biscuits to discuss or spec things
[18:08] <amitk> lool: we are going to Prague and you want to drink coffee?
[18:09] <lool> You'll need to mention your personal interest in sessions you care about, and the big computer should compute the best planning for all of us
[18:09] <lool> amitk: Heh
[18:10] <lool> bspencer, rustyl_: Could you please gather interest in attending UDS Prague / Intrepid, and also you can start brainstorming about what you'd like to discuss
[18:10] <lool> You're also welcome to register blueprints immediately
[18:10] <bfiller> amitk: :)
[18:10] <lool> Even if only high level
[18:10] <lool> davidm: Topic closed?  Did you want to discuss anything in particular?
[18:11] <lool> Ok, ending the meeting then
[18:11] <lool> #endmeeting
[18:11] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:11.
[18:11] <davidm> Time to join Dons call
[18:11] <lool> bspencer, rustyl_: I'd like to mention I'll attend over phone the Moblin 2.0 event
[18:11] <bspencer> lool:  great.
[18:12] <lool> bspencer, rustyl_: I understand it's like a counterpart to our UDS, but it wasn't efficient for me to come physically and be in a bad sleeping state in the whole day of Moblin 2.0; I hope it will be manageable over phone
[18:13] <bspencer> lool: no problem.  We'll remember to call the bridge 
[18:14] <amitk> jay: I'm heading out for some emergency grocery shopping before Finland shuts down until Tuesday. I'll send kernel configs in email.
[18:14] <lool> bspencer, rustyl_: If you organize such events regularly, perhaps every 6 months, I think I could be in a better state of attendance if I could come for more days; for instance a 3 days event, I'd come one day upfront, sleep, etc.
[18:14] <pat_mcgowan> bspencer, David and I will be attending next week FYI
[18:14] <jayc> amitk: sure
[18:22] <ToddBrandt> lool: wrt to the security policy, can you point me to some documentation or an example on how to implement that? Is there a way to set up dbus to only work with a certain user or only from a certain collection of apps?
[18:24] <lool> ToddBrandt: Kind of
[18:24] <lool> ToddBrandt: My understanding is that policykit is inspired by macosx security framework
[18:24] <lool> ToddBrandt: Check /etc/dbus-1/system.d/NetworkManager.conf
[18:25] <lool> ToddBrandt:         <policy at_console="true">
[18:25] <ToddBrandt> lool: we have a conundrum in moblin wrt to security vs convenience, logging in as root is unacceptable so I have to find some middle ground
[18:25] <lool> ToddBrandt: This tells dbus to use policykit to check whether the user is in front of the active session
[18:25] <ToddBrandt> policykit, is that another daemon?
[18:26] <lool> Not really
[18:26] <lool> ToddBrandt: I think you should read doc onthe policykit website
[18:26] <lool> http://hal.freedesktop.org/docs/PolicyKit/ might be a good read
[18:26] <lool> (design overview)
[18:27] <ToddBrandt> yea I just saw that, first link in google
[18:27] <ToddBrandt> is it related to HAL?
[18:27] <ToddBrandt> oh, that's something I could read, gotcha, thanks!
[18:27] <lool> It can check things in hal
[18:28] <lool> ToddBrandt: Same kind of checks to allow access to the interfaces of hal is done in its dbus config
[18:28] <lool> ToddBrandt:   <!-- You can change this to a more suitable user, or make per-group -->
[18:29] <lool>   <policy user="0">
[18:29] <lool> This means only root can use these
[18:29] <lool>   <!-- Only root or user haldaemon can own the HAL service -->
[18:29] <lool>   <policy user="haldaemon">
[18:29] <lool> etc.
[18:29] <ToddBrandt> Yea I saw that the system backends have a debug interface that can be exposed to the user, that's why I didn't touch that
[18:29] <lool>   <!-- Allow everything, including access to SetHostName to users of the group "netdev" -->
[18:29] <lool>   <policy group="netdev">
[18:29] <lool>     <allow send_destination="org.freedesktop.Avahi"/>
[18:29] <lool> etc.
[18:30] <lool> ToddBrandt: So I think this is how you should access control it
[18:30] <ToddBrandt> ok, I'll take a look
[18:31] <lool> ToddBrandt: have fun!
[18:31] <ToddBrandt> lool: heh, thanks ;)
[18:38] <Raseel> I'm trying to install a Project using image-creator for the first time. How long does it usually take ?
[18:40] <bspencer> Raseel: the majority of the time is downloading all the packages, so it depends on your connection, and your computer speed
[18:41] <bspencer> I have a great quad-core and a local mirror of hardy and gutsy, so it takes me about 4mins
[18:41] <bspencer> but before that it took upwards of 30-60mins.
[18:41] <bspencer> most of the time just waiting though.
[18:41] <Raseel> bspencer:Yeah. So how much data is downloaded ? In MBs ?
[18:42] <bspencer> hm, not sure.  But the image that is created on a compressed filesystem is ~500MB.
[18:42] <bspencer> so I guess about 1GB
[18:42] <bspencer> I could be way off though
[18:42] <Raseel> Wow !!!! That much ?
[18:43] <bspencer> how big is hardy ?  It downloads the full mobile distribution packages.
[18:43] <Raseel> Then maybe even I should set up a local mirror first and then go about trying to create a build nvironment
[18:43] <bspencer> after you do it once, though, creating images is fast.
[18:43] <bspencer> HappyCamp have you ever documented a BKM for creating a mirror for mobile ?
[18:45] <GrueMaster> I think there is a bkm on mirroring up on moblin.org
[18:50] <lool> BKM?
[18:50] <lool> Best Known Method?
[18:51] <bspencer> yep
[18:51] <lool> I use squid here, it allows me to limit how much disk space I want to give to caching and it will keep the most recent objects only
[20:37] <GrueMaster> pat_mcgowan: ping.  Don said you wanted CB info?
[20:40] <pat_mcgowan> GrueMaster, I had asked how to query a system to know what chip revs are present
[20:40] <GrueMaster> lspci should give you the chipset stepping.
[20:41] <GrueMaster> Rev 6 is D1, Rev 5 is D0, etc
[20:42] <GrueMaster> you can get the cpu info from /proc/cpuinfo
[20:42] <pat_mcgowan> GrueMaster, thanks
[20:42] <pat_mcgowan> I think Poulsbo is generally in lock step with the cpu
[20:43] <GrueMaster> Not necessarily.  The current (latest) is C0 SLT, D1 PSB
[22:07] <pat_mcgowan> GrueMaster, you around, more camera questions
[22:09] <GrueMaster> I'm here.  Not awake, but here none-the-less.
[22:11] <GrueMaster> what's up?
[22:15] <GrueMaster> pat_mcgowan:  you rang?
[22:16] <pat_mcgowan> GrueMaster, hey, trying to narrow down our camera issue
[22:16] <GrueMaster> k
[22:16] <pat_mcgowan> it works on C0, not on D1, how come?
[22:16] <GrueMaster> I've been tied up with video driver and helix testing, but I will load your image here in a few and look.
[22:17] <pat_mcgowan> GrueMaster, we are trying to figure out if there was some change to the USB interface, or the latest BIOS, or what
[22:18] <GrueMaster> I know there were some fixes in D0/D1 sil for USB.  USBc is still apparently broken, though.
[22:19] <GrueMaster> Is this on CB or ODM hardware?
[22:21] <pat_mcgowan> GrueMaster, we have C0 and D1 CB, and D1 OEM
[22:22] <pat_mcgowan> only C0 CB is working with the latest software
[22:22] <GrueMaster> Ok.  On the D1 CB, which bios do you have?
[22:22] <pat_mcgowan> v70
[22:23] <GrueMaster> See if there is an update available.  I have 73, and found a video issue with earlier bios versions on D1.
[22:23] <pat_mcgowan> on ARMS?
[22:23] <pat_mcgowan> I dont think so
[22:25] <GrueMaster> You'll have to talk to either Don or whomever is your TME.  I can't put it up there for you.  They'd tar and feather me, then strap me to a flag pole.
[22:26] <GrueMaster> I just imaged a drive with your 0313 image.  I'll try it against bios 73, and also against newer video drivers and see if I see a difference.
[22:26] <pat_mcgowan> GrueMaster, great
[22:28] <GrueMaster> So what's with the X loop?
[22:28] <pat_mcgowan> GrueMaster, best if you can first reproduce our failure of course
[22:28] <GrueMaster> endless respawn.
[22:28] <pat_mcgowan> What X loop?
[22:29] <pat_mcgowan> oh yeah, touchscreen enabled
[22:29] <GrueMaster> Ah.
[22:29] <GrueMaster> That's right
[22:29] <pat_mcgowan> you need to disable the touchscreen in the conf
[22:31] <pat_mcgowan> GrueMaster, we just loaded an old BIOS on the oem unit, and camera worked
[22:31] <GrueMaster> I wish the default would to be not to respawn X.  
[22:31] <GrueMaster> Interesting.
[22:31] <pat_mcgowan> really old version
[22:35] <pat_mcgowan> GrueMaster, our C0 that works is running BIOS v67
[22:36] <GrueMaster> Ok, I'm not seeing an issue with default image and bios 73.  I'll downrev to 70 now and see if it shows up.
[22:36] <pat_mcgowan> Hmmm
[22:43] <pat_mcgowan> GrueMaster, please email me your results
[22:44] <GrueMaster> rgtr
[22:45] <GrueMaster> I'm just booting into gui now w/ bios 70.
[22:46] <pat_mcgowan> I worry it only happens with our higher res camera
[22:47] <GrueMaster> No, it looks like cheese is bombing out on me with bios 70.  I'm also seeing the video shake, which is what I saw here on other tests with that bios.
[22:48] <pat_mcgowan> Cool, thats it then
[22:48] <pat_mcgowan> Do you have errata list for 70 to 73?
[22:48] <pat_mcgowan> I will ask Don to get me the new version
[22:50] <GrueMaster> I do, but it's mostly internal info.  I have to watch what I give out, being the absolute lowest on the totem pole.
[22:50] <pat_mcgowan> GrueMaster, well thanks for your help, you are highest on our totem pole
[22:50] <pat_mcgowan> talk to you tomorrow
[22:50] <GrueMaster> :D
[22:50] <GrueMaster> See ya.