[00:05] <orbisvicis> if the /debian/control specifies a different package than the original/older name can i set the new/(changed name) package to 'replace' the original package, that way dependencies can be met ?
[00:12] <orbisvicis> aka does the 'replaces' field in the control file work if the packages have different names ?
[00:15] <slangasek> the Replaces field only makes sense if the packages have different names
[00:15] <slangasek> but a Replaces field doesn't satisfy any dependencies.
[00:15] <slangasek> recommended reading: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html
[00:16] <orbisvicis> i guess that was an awful explanation; let me read brb
[00:16] <orbisvicis> then explain better
[00:39] <lifeless> slangasek: so
[00:40] <lifeless> 0.6.6-0ubuntu1
[00:40] <lifeless> 0.5.10+git20080301-1ubuntu2
[00:40] <slangasek> ok, what wireless chipset?
[00:40] <slangasek> you seem to have evaded the hal breakage, at least :)
[00:41] <lifeless> 4965
[00:42] <slangasek> hmmmmm, I thought there was a 4965 bug open somewhere
[00:43] <lifeless> so I get online at the moment by iwconfig + nm
[00:43] <lifeless> hammer iwconfig at it enough and it comes up
[00:43] <lifeless> after that its fine
[00:44] <lifeless> it may not be nm, but I blame nm before anything else. With historical reason :)
[00:45] <slangasek> possibly "nm/kernel driver interplay", in this case; the new nm has just changed to make use of the improved kernel stack, which not all drivers support yet (incl. the iwl3945 and iwl4965 drivers we're shipping)
[00:46] <slangasek> so n-m may be making some... suboptimal choices
[00:46] <mjg59> slangasek: Erm. Got a bug#?
[00:47] <slangasek> lifeless: you might look through https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24 to see if any of these 4965 bugs match your symptoms; otherwise, dunno
[00:47] <mjg59> The only new kernel stack I can think of is the new configuration stack, which is integrated in the mac80211 stack the iwl* drivers use
[00:47] <mjg59> FWIW, 4965 works solidly here
[00:47] <mjg59> Though I'm using n-m 0.7
[00:47] <slangasek> mjg59: the mac80211 stack used by the iwl* drivers doesn't know scan_capa
[00:47] <slangasek> there's a bug number, yes
[00:48] <slangasek> #200950
[00:48] <mjg59> slangasek: Ah, ok. I think your summary is wrong, then :)
[00:48] <slangasek> sorry :)
[00:48] <mjg59> mac80211 is the stack everything is migrating to
[00:49] <slangasek> yes - but we have a forked version of mac80211 in l-u-m for iwl[34]*, and that version doesn't know scan_capa.  The one in linux-image does
[00:49] <mjg59> Wurgh?
[00:49] <slangasek> (don't ask me why we have two different versions of mac80211, that's beyond my ken)
[00:49] <mjg59> They're developed against the one in -wireless, which should always be identical or ahead of the one in -image
[00:50] <slangasek> that would imply that scan_capa is going away again, that would be messy
[00:50] <mjg59> I suspect it might just be the case that the stuff in l-u-m wasn't updated appropriately
[00:50] <slangasek> anyway, bug #200950 is the bug
[00:50] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 200950 in linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24 "[iwl3945] network manager not able to associate to hidden SSID (scan_capa = 0x0)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/200950
[00:52] <lifeless> that summary looks exactly accurate
[00:52] <lifeless> except for the chipset
[00:52] <slangasek> you have a hidden SSID?
[00:53] <slangasek> feel free to update the summary then, and poke asac about adding iwl4xxx to his quirk
[00:57] <vorian> slangasek: I'll fix keurocalc straight away.
[00:57] <slangasek> vorian: ok, cheers :)
[00:57] <vorian> :)
[00:58] <orbisvicis> slangasek, thanks for the link, virtual package provides was exactly what i needed
[00:58] <orbisvicis> just didnt want to debuild, then 1/2 hr later find out it actually wasnt correct
[01:43] <hmuller> Anyone know if there's a method to use hal to set xserver screen properties? (instead of manually editing xorg.conf after 'autoconfig')
[02:17] <slangasek> bryce: in what sense is 915resolution no longer supposed to be removed?  The conflict is still there, and my understanding is that the conflict is corret
[02:17] <slangasek> correct
[02:17] <slangasek> or maybe "that should be fixed" is "we should fix that"?
[02:20] <bryce> slangasek: yeah I don't know exactly what the situation is there, but I *believe* that we decided if they were using -i810 in gutsy, we weren't planning on rewriting their xorg.conf to use -intel, so we should check to make sure we aren't going to cause this bug in that case
[02:20] <bryce> but I'm not sure exactly what we intend to do here though, so assigned to timo to take a look at
[02:36] <jdong> bryce: hmm do you have any hints on why xserver-xorg-intel on GMA950, when playing xv after suspend+resume X freezes?
[02:40] <bryce> jdong: no, I was just looking at that bug report though.  I have a 945 box here, I'll have a shot at reproducing it some time this week
[02:41] <bryce> jdong: if you can post a backtrace, that could be quite valuable in tracking it down
[02:41] <jdong> bryce: what kind of backtrace, and how would I go about getting one?
[02:41] <bryce> we've only had a limited set of xorg changes recently that could account for it, so I think it's likely we can get it figured out
[02:42] <bryce> ah, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingXorg for details
[02:42] <bryce> basically ssh into the machine after locking up, and attach gdb to the Xorg process and do backtrace full
[02:43] <jdong> bryce: ah, ok I'll give that a shot the next time I have a chance :)
[02:46] <RAOF> bryce: Are you aware of the proposed patch (attached to freedesktop bugzilla) for bug #194214?  I don't know enough X to really tell if it's good, but the guy sounds reasonably confident :)
[02:46] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 194214 in xorg-server "Keys get "stuck" down" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194214
[02:46] <jdong> bryce: OF COURSE, when I TRY to reproduce it, it doesn't happen
[02:46]  * jdong cries
[02:46] <bryce> hehe
[02:46] <bryce> RAOF, looking
[02:46] <jdong> lol
[02:49] <jdong> bryce: ok from now on, I will tell you that X crashes each time before I suspend. That seems to do the trick.
[02:50] <bryce> RAOF: interesting, the patch so far looks fairly straightforward but it sounds like it's not super thoroughly tested.  I'd sort of prefer giving it more time to be tested before rolling it into hardy, but I could probably roll a .deb for people to test with meantime.  I'll put it on the todo list for tomorrow
[02:50] <RAOF> bryce: I'm very happy to attach a debdiff to the bug if that's easier for you.
[02:50] <bryce> oh yes that would be great
[02:51] <bryce> oh, I notice people have already posted debs, excellent
[02:51] <RAOF> I'm not sure which patch they're applying, though.
[02:51] <RAOF> There was an initial hack patch, then the better version on freedesktop bugzilla.
[02:52] <bryce> ah, then if you could also post a .deb for folks to test that would be handy too
[02:52] <RAOF> Yeah, I will.  Time to update my i386 schroot.
[02:55] <hmuller> on bug #194214:  I experience similar results when using emacs (keys stick) , but the rumor is that mouse events trigger this (Hardy amd64 Beta+)
[02:55] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 194214 in xorg-server "Keys get "stuck" down" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194214
[04:16] <pwnguin> wow
[04:16] <pwnguin> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=494944&cid=22815662
[04:17] <pwnguin> (about john nagle's validator service) "This tool is regularly abused as a proxy server. At one point, somebody even built a call to it into the Debian build process because they needed to read HTTPS from some code that didn't know how to talk SSL."
[04:17] <pwnguin> "(That's been fixed.) "
[06:14] <pitti> Good morning
[06:15] <ion_> Night
[06:17] <pitti> evand, _MMA_: sane does not need the scanner group any more; dev permissions are dynamically assigned by hal now
[07:28]  * StevenK tries to figure out what colour depth his X server is running in
[07:30] <Mithrandir> StevenK: xdpyinfo?
[07:30] <StevenK> Mithrandir: Yeah, remembered that as I hit enter. :-)
[08:13] <tjaalton> what's the procedure for getting new packages (= non-existing in ubuntu) from debian? fontmatrix seems useful
[08:15] <ion_> It will be done automatically for intrepid.
[08:15] <tjaalton> I was referring to hardy
[08:16] <ion_> I’d guess it’s too late in the release cycle, but i don’t know for sure.
[08:19] <zdzichuBG> tjaalton: there a wiki page somewhere, which is called official way and is ignored by develoeprs
[08:20] <tjaalton> zdzichuBG: right.. paperwork it is then
[08:22] <soren> zdzichuBG: The official way is ignored by developers?
[08:22] <zdzichuBG> tjaalton: there is also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
[08:23] <zdzichuBG> soren: thinkfinger was requested by this page for two releases, even with links to debian packages and haven't been included in Ubuntu
[08:23] <tjaalton> zdzichuBG: read that already
[08:23] <sivang> hi all
[08:23] <soren> tjaalton: What you need to do is file an FFe for it.
[08:23] <sivang> hmm, mvo is not online
[08:23] <tjaalton> zdzichuBG: thinkfinger is in ubuntu
[08:23] <soren> tjaalton: When that's accepted, you just file a sync request.
[08:24] <soren> tjaalton: Well... The sync request could be written as an FFe, I guess.
[08:24] <sivang> does anybody know a reliable way to find out the component a package belongs to through python-apt ?
[08:24] <tjaalton> seems that fontmatrix has been requested already, bug 198837
[08:24] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 198837 in ubuntu "Sync fontmatrix from debian lenny or unstable" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/198837
[08:24] <soren> zdzichuBG: Erm... A wiki page is not the correct way to request new packages in Ubuntu. I don't know why you think it's official.
[08:25] <sivang> candidateOrigin's component attribute seems to be missing for package like distcc and alike
[08:25] <zdzichuBG> soren: it was. now it states it Obsoleted and bug has to be reported in launchpad
[08:26] <soren> zdzichuBG: So the page even says that it's not the right way to do it... It's hardly surprising noone is picking it up then, is it?
[08:26]  * sivang waits for Michael to come online
[08:27] <soren> sivang: He's on holiday.
[08:27] <soren> afaik
[08:27] <sivang> oh
[08:27] <sivang> hi soren
[08:27] <soren> o/
[08:27] <zdzichuBG> soren: it was official 1-2 years ago. Instructions on wiki.ubuntu.com stated, that in order to get package in ubuntu one has to add pointers to software in this page. Apparently process changed since then
[08:27] <sivang> and there nobody else who knows python-apt as good as he.. darn
[08:28] <Fujitsu> soren: When's he back? I have a question for him too.
[08:28] <soren> Next week.
[08:29] <soren> zdzichuBG: Right. We use wiki pages to track policies and such, and bug reports to handle tasks, bugs, etc.
[08:29] <soren> zdzichuBG: ...because wikis make lousy bug trackers.
[08:31] <soren> zdzichuBG: Basing statements like "foo is ignored by developers" on 1-2 years old empirical data is not very useful.
[08:31] <zdzichuBG> soren: and louse archive tool, too. I can't find this wiki page right now, so I will back out my statement. Sorry.
[08:32] <soren> zdzichuBG: Didn't you just say that it said the page was obsoleted and all that? Where did you see that if not on the page itself?
[08:33] <zdzichuBG> tjaalton: see the page I linked. Correct way to have package included in Ubuntu is described there
[08:33] <zdzichuBG> soren: there was a page with long table of software, sorted alphabetically
[08:34] <zdzichuBG> soren: this page was linked from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionQueue or similar page
[08:34] <zdzichuBG> soren: whole process involving wiki got obsoleted
[08:35] <slangasek> the main inclusion queue is for getting software into main, not for getting it into Ubuntu as a whole...
[08:35] <zdzichuBG> (”This page is obsolete; please file a bug report for each package to be moved to main and subscribe [WWW] ubuntu-mir to the report.“)
[08:35] <Mithrandir> zdzichuBG: I believe soren knows this, he's been contributing to Ubuntu for years.
[08:36] <zdzichuBG> Mithrandir: I'm explaining myself
[08:38] <soren> zdzichuBG: Basing statements about policy about A based on wikipages about B is not useful either. *Especially* when you don't even mention that when you're making said statements.
[08:39] <soren> zdzichuBG: It happens to be correct, but as a general rule, I'd advise against it.
[08:43] <zdzichuBG> I'm sorry, I didn't meant to offend anybody.
[08:47] <soren> Hm... I happend to notice that a package called "xenman" was removed from Ubuntu with a note saying that it had been renamed to "convirt", but "convirt" wasn't sync'ed. This seems unfortunate.
[08:48] <soren> Package removal is a completely manual process, is it not?
[08:56] <Fujitsu> soren: Some are manually requested, but others are semi-automatically imported from Debian.
[08:56] <Fujitsu> I'm not sure how semi-automatic semi-automatic is, as the archive admin processes are very secret indeed.
[08:57] <soren> Non-obvious != secret
[08:58] <seb128> Fujitsu: what is secret?
[08:58] <seb128> Fujitsu: it's all documented on the ubuntu wiki
[08:59] <Fujitsu> Ah, so it is.
[09:00] <Fujitsu> So it's "asks for confirmation [for each removal]" semi-automatic.
[09:00] <seb128> I don't understand the question
[09:00] <Fujitsu> I'm not seeing a question.
[09:01] <seb128> Fujitsu: what is your issue then, what information would you like to know but is secret?
[09:01] <Fujitsu> seb128: Oh, I see you joined afterwards.
[09:01] <Fujitsu> seb128: soren asked about how manual removals were.
[09:02] <soren> 09:47:59 < soren> Hm... I happend to notice that a package called "xenman" was removed from Ubuntu with a note saying that it had been renamed to "convirt", but  "convirt" wasn't sync'ed. This seems unfortunate.
[09:02] <soren> 09:48:20 < soren> Package removal is a completely manual process, is it not?
[09:03] <seb128> ah, ok
[09:03] <soren> I don't know... I guess I just expected that when a package was removed because it got a new name, the new package would be imported straight away without the need for a sync request.
[09:03] <Fujitsu> I find it strange that removals were processed after the autosync was switched off.
[09:04] <seb128> why? we still do cleaning
[09:05] <seb128> soren: seeing the reason it's likely manual processing
[09:06] <soren> seb128: That makes it even more strange why the new package wasn't synced, doesn't it?
[09:06] <seb128> not really
[09:07] <soren> No? Hm.. Is that how renames are usually handled?
[09:07] <seb128> if you ask me now to remove something because it has been renamed I'm likely to trust you, have a quick look and do it
[09:08] <seb128> soren: we get lot of ping on IRC, mails, etc, dunno about this one especially but if the request comes from somebody known and trusted it's likely to be done without a lot of checking
[09:09] <Fujitsu> Isn't this why a bug trail is mandated?
[09:09] <soren> seb128: Are we talking about the removal of the old package or the syncing of the new one? Or perhaps both?
[09:09] <seb128> soren: any archive admin request
[09:09] <soren> seb128: Ah.
[09:10] <seb128> Fujitsu: well, bugs are the usually way, but we tend to try to minimize the paper work when it's not required
[09:10] <seb128> Fujitsu: I tend to do quite a lot of desktop syncs when asked on IRC rather than asking them to open a bug, then go to find the bug to close it, etc
[09:11] <Fujitsu> seb128: For syncs it's not so bad; the requester is generally recorded as the Changed-By.
[09:31] <PecisDarbs> hi people, question about OpenOffice.org translations - how they get pulled in and how they get updated?
[09:48] <tkamppeter> pitti, hi
[10:20] <seb128> pawalls: hi
[10:20] <seb128> pawalls: want to discuss the mounts listed by gvfs?
[10:23] <tkamppeter> Does someone know if pitti already came back from easter vacation?
[10:24] <seb128> tkamppeter: /whois pitti and read the away text there
[10:37] <tkamppeter> seb128 thanks
[10:44] <pitti> hi tkamppeter
[10:45] <pitti> tkamppeter: I'll upload your packages now, don't worry :)
[10:45] <pitti> tkamppeter: sorry, I was out for a bit
[11:08] <asac_> lifeless: please test if the branch now associated with bug 200950 fixes your hidden connect problem for iwl4965
[11:08] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 200950 in linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24 "[iwl3945] network manager not able to associate to hidden SSID (scan_capa = 0x0)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/200950
[11:11] <tkamppeter> pitti, it was not primarily about the stack of packages, but that I have good news for you: bug #25966 is fixed. Bugs in the individual packages get now assigned to the packages.
[11:11] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 25966 in Ubuntu Hardy "NEW PACKAGE: Printer drivers for Brother needed" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/25966
[11:11] <tkamppeter> pitti, Now the Brother packages are ready for Jockey.
[11:11] <pitti> tkamppeter: right, I read it this morning; awesome job of Saivan and you!
[11:12] <pitti> tkamppeter: looking forward to Austin and discussing how to integrate printer drivers into this
[11:12] <tkamppeter> pitti, should Saïvann appy for MOTU now?
[11:13] <pitti> tkamppeter: he should probably collect some more experience (bug triage, bg fixing, freezes, packaging of free software and best practices, etc)
[11:14] <tkamppeter> pitti, I have a question about bug 139665. In the last comment in it there is a syslog with AppArmor messages about smaba files.
[11:14] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 139665 in cupsys "apparmor profile error messages" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/139665
[11:15] <tkamppeter> For me it looks like that for Hardy this is no problem any more, as third-party backends, including smb, are excluded from AppArmor protection:
[11:16] <tkamppeter> /usr/lib/cups/backend/* Ux
[11:16] <tkamppeter> pitti, am I right»
[11:16] <tkamppeter> pitti, am I right?
[11:16] <pitti> tkamppeter: in theory yes
[11:17] <pitti> tkamppeter: however, that same relaxed profile is also in gutsy-updates
[11:17] <pitti> tkamppeter: so I'd ask again for his version, and whether he uses the -update packages
[11:17] <tjaalton> what happened to linda? it's not installable
[11:18] <pitti> tjaalton: it got removed from Debian
[11:18] <tjaalton> oh..
[11:19] <pitti> tkamppeter: I wouldn't mind adding some rm privs to /usr/share/samba, that doesn't hurt
[11:19] <pitti> tkamppeter: depends on whether it's only through a third-party driver (and thus fixed now) or due to something built into cups itself
[11:19] <Riddell> calc: whats the status of openoffice.org-l10n-en-gb ?
[11:20] <tkamppeter> pitti, CUPS is not talking to Samba directly. Using CUPS as a client to an SMB server is always done via the smb backend.
[11:21] <pitti> tkamppeter: hmm, which is not covered by the AppArmor profile
[11:21] <pitti> so it should work
[11:25] <tkamppeter> pitti, thanks. Bug closed.
[11:25] <pitti> tkamppeter: hm, I just followed up with that question
[11:25] <pitti> tkamppeter: but anyway, if I get a negative response, I'll just reopen it
[11:25] <pitti> thanks
[11:30] <tkamppeter> pitti, I am also closing 153003, as the /dev/tty problem does not break printing and the other problems are fixed.
[11:30] <pitti> ah, great
[11:31] <tkamppeter> bug 153003
[11:31] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 153003 in cupsys "inode_permission error for cupsd on /dev/tty" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/153003
[11:41] <asac> any idea if dpkg-genchanges is somewhat broken at the moment? -S -si yields http://paste.ubuntu.com/6057/ for me
[11:41] <asac> while it works in feisty
[11:42] <asac> and works in gutsy
[11:44] <ogra_cmpc> asac, do you work remotely and ahve a rinning display as asac on the same machine ?
[11:44] <ogra_cmpc> *running
[11:45] <asac> ogra_cmpc: no thats locally
[11:45] <ogra_cmpc> dpkg-genchanges (or rather gnome-keyrig i think) does use a graphical PW prompt now
[11:45] <asac> ogra_cmpc: doing the same in gutsy chroot works
[11:45] <asac> ogra_cmpc: pw prompt? afaik it doesn't sign on its own
[11:45] <asac> ogra_cmpc: the problem is that the orig.tar.gz is in the .changes ... even though i build with -si
[11:46] <asac> i hope that its not pw related :)
[11:46] <ogra_cmpc> heh, no
[11:46] <ogra_cmpc> but the .changes need to know the md5 for the orig.tar,gz
[11:46] <asac> ogra_cmpc: no thats the .dsc
[11:46] <ogra_cmpc> so that should indeed show up there
[11:46] <ogra_cmpc> hmpf
[11:46] <asac> he?
[11:47] <asac> it never shows up there
[11:47] <asac> only in hardy
[11:47] <asac> feisty, gutsy, dapper work :)
[11:47] <asac> e.g. it just doesn't obey the -si flag anymore
[11:47] <asac> (at least here)
[11:51] <asac> ogra_cmpc: you have ralink?
[11:51] <asac> can you test hidden ssid if you have a minute?
[11:52] <asac> you need to remove the connection info from gconf (through nm applet "Edit Connection ..")
[11:52] <ogra_cmpc> asac, you have ralink :) its in the classmate :)
[11:52] <asac> ogra_cmpc: right ;)
[11:52] <asac> ogra_cmpc: what do you have?
[11:52] <ogra_cmpc> rt73usb
[11:52] <asac> i thought you had another ralink of a different kind
[11:53]  * ogra_cmpc would have said now "all classmates are the same" ... but that doesnt seem true anymore ...
[11:53] <asac> ogra_cmpc: does that work out of the box?
[11:53] <ogra_cmpc> but ours are at least :)
[11:53] <asac> a friend complained that his rt73usb doesn't work out of the box in gutsy
[11:53] <ogra_cmpc> i never tired hidden essid ... but for all other setups it works fine
[11:53] <ogra_cmpc> oh, ah, eh ... gutsy
[11:53] <asac> ogra_cmpc: yes. hidden essid is special.
[11:53] <ogra_cmpc> no thats rather gamblinbg
[11:54] <asac> ogra_cmpc: ok. so hardy is better
[11:54] <asac> good to know
[11:54] <ogra_cmpc> gutsy did work depending on the moon phase only
[11:54] <asac> are there issues with just installing the hardy kernel in gutsy or should i advise him to upgrade?
[11:55] <ogra_cmpc> hardy worked with all setups i have tried yet ... no idea about the kernel though, you will need new module-init-tools and udev additionally i think
[11:55] <asac> hmm
[11:55] <asac> i think he should just hit dist-upgrade
[11:56] <asac> we are at beta stage after all
[11:56] <tkamppeter> pitti, thanks for uploading all that packages which I have prepared the last days, now we had real bug closing fireworks. I have now also prepared hplip, see your mail.
[11:57] <ogra_cmpc> asac, yeah
[11:58] <ogra_cmpc> hardy is far beyond wrt ralink
[11:58] <pitti> tkamppeter: indeed :) uploaded hplip, too
[12:02] <sistpoty|work> pitti: please give back haskell-http on sparc, thanks!
[12:02] <pitti> sistpoty|work: kicked
[12:02] <sistpoty|work> thanks!
[12:04]  * Hobbsee gently kicks pitti
[12:04] <Hobbsee> if i give pitti back, will he clone himself?
[12:05] <sistpoty|work> heh
[12:05]  * pitti plops back into existence fourfold
[12:05] <Hobbsee> yay!
[12:05]  * Hobbsee gives pitti back again
[12:05] <Hobbsee> 8, or 16 now?
[12:05] <pitti> -ENOSPC on my desk
[12:06] <Hobbsee> aww
[12:07] <tkamppeter> pitti, thanks
[12:07] <ogra_cmpc> pitti, hey, you said you like ltsp, i could send you some terminals :)
[12:07] <pitti> hah, great idea
[12:08] <pitti> can then someone please clone my wife, bicycle, fridge, and laptop as well?
[12:08] <ogra_cmpc> you want a bike riding harem ?
[12:09] <Hobbsee> with a fridge?
[12:09] <ogra_cmpc> no, with fat geeky girls i guess :)
[12:10] <pitti> eww
[12:10] <ogra_cmpc> heh
[12:10] <Hobbsee> erk.
[12:10] <StevenK> No, pitti just doesn't like sharing.
[12:10] <StevenK> Even with himself.
[12:14] <seb128> pitti: do you have an option on whether desktop users should be in lpadmin or not?
[12:14] <pitti> seb128: IMHO no
[12:14] <seb128> pitti: can you add and configure printers without being lpadmin member?
[12:15] <pitti> seb128: no, that needs lpadmin
[12:15] <seb128> so you think desktop users should not be able to set up a printer?
[12:15] <seb128> hum
[12:15] <pitti> probably 'lpadmin' should have been just 'admin'...
[12:15] <seb128> I'm not sure I agree
[12:15] <pitti> same question as 'so desktop users should not be able to change the time zone', or install a package
[12:16]  * pitti grumbles about a stale 5-a-day lock on lp bzr
[12:16] <seb128> hum
[12:16] <seb128> I'm not sure I agree there
[12:16] <seb128> with admin rights you can break things
[12:17] <seb128> but adding a printer should be no issue
[12:17] <pitti> you can enable printer sharing to the world with lpadmin, or reroute known printers to somewhere else
[12:17] <seb128> alright
[12:18] <seb128> I'm wondering if it makes sense to have a desktop profile
[12:18] <seb128> that's just useless thing, you can't do anything as a desktop user apparently
[12:18] <pitti> why not?
[12:18] <pitti> it's exactly what I'd give to users at an university or an office
[12:18] <pitti> or my wife on my computer
[12:19] <seb128> well, that's just an standard unpriviledged user then, no?
[12:19] <pitti> i. e. audio, video etc. are fine, but no admin rights
[12:19] <seb128> we should have user and admin
[12:19] <pitti> seb128: hm, desktop user is audio/video/modem etc.
[12:20] <ogra_cmpc> printer adminstration was possible before for nomal users iirc (with the older print tools)
[12:20] <ogra_cmpc> but never with lpadmin
[12:20] <pitti> ogra_cmpc: how?
[12:20] <pitti> cupsys always required being in lpadmin to do administration
[12:20] <ogra_cmpc> pitti, i could manage print jobs and add/remove printers with gnome rpint tool  if i'm not totally wrong
[12:20] <seb128> pitti: alright, makes sense, I was just checking before changing, thanks ;-)
[12:21] <seb128> ogra_cmpc: you were likely in lpadmin
[12:21] <pitti> ogra_cmpc: I doubt that
[12:21] <ogra_cmpc> hmm
[12:21] <pitti> ogra_cmpc: you didn't need a password or anything, but you did need the group membership
[12:21] <ogra_cmpc> and did we use that group for non admin users ?
[12:22] <ogra_cmpc> i thought i remember it working with such users in ltsp
[12:23] <ogra_cmpc> but i may remeber it wrongly ... you will know petter as the cups maintainer
[12:23] <ogra_cmpc> heh
[12:23] <ogra_cmpc> better as well
[12:34] <_MMA_> pitti: The issue is bug #205496. I'm going to grab a new daily to see if the problem persists there still. My installed Hardy still has this issue.
[12:34] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 205496 in xsane "[Hardy]Xsane needs root to operate scanner" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/205496
[12:36] <seb128> _MMA_: are you member of the scanner group or not?
[12:37] <_MMA_> seb128: I did enable it yes.
[12:38] <_MMA_> My 1st post in Bug #205628 shows how to reproduce.
[12:38] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 205628 in xsane "[Hardy] xsane reports all devices as busy. (dup-of: 205496)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/205628
[12:38] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 205496 in xsane "[Hardy]Xsane needs root to operate scanner" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/205496
[12:42] <pitti> _MMA_: hm, weird; you shouldn't need group scanner any more, for me it works perfectly without
[12:42] <jdstrand> zul: regarding bug #204612 , I saw it the other day (but haven't tried to reproduce it)
[12:42] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 204612 in nut "nut 2.2.1-2.1ubuntu1 fails to install on Hardy Heron" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/204612
[12:42] <zul> jdstrand: just tried it here locally in my vm and I wasnt able to
[12:43] <jdstrand> zul: the machine it happened on has upsmon enabled, but not upsd
[12:44] <zul> jdstrand: hmm...interesting anything in the log files?
[12:45] <_MMA_> pitti: It is odd. All 3 of my devices that xsane can see give me busy errors unless I open as root/sudo. This happened a little before beta. I'll see what the daily yields to try to narrow it down to a quirk on my installed system.
[12:45] <ogra_cmpc> _MMA_, did you notice that ~/.sane is owned by root automatically if you run scanimage as root ? it wont be writable for your user
[12:45] <jdstrand> zul: nothing out of the ordinary (grep ups /var/log/*)
[12:45] <jdstrand> zul: but I can't remember quite when I saw it
[12:46] <_MMA_> ogra_cmpc: I made sure to clear out any .sane folders and re-run as user.
[12:46] <ogra_cmpc> ah, k
[12:46] <jdstrand> (I new there was a bug and moved on :( )
[12:46] <zul> jdstrand: I wasnt getting the udev messages like the user is in the bug
[12:46] <jdstrand> zul: oh-- I remember I got udev failed to restart or something too
[12:46] <jdstrand> zul: sorry I am not being much help here...
[12:46] <jdstrand> (with specifics)
[12:47] <jdstrand> zul: I was really just doing a 'me too'
[12:47] <zul> jdstrand: yep I got that as well but the upload fixed that and just double checked as well
[12:47] <zul> jdstrand: heh
[13:01] <ScottK> doko_: For Bug #199014 (python-xml removal), only zsi remains.  bzed is looking at an svn snapshot for Debian to deal with it, but it's a non-trivial packaging effort.  zsi as is stands needs some substantial chunks from python-xml to work correctly.  I'm not going to have time to sort through it before release.
[13:01] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 199014 in qm "python-xml removal: please drop/replace (build) dependencies" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199014
[13:02] <Mirv> bryce: hi. I don't think the current approachin gnome-control-center to apply a patch (104) to a patch (101) works, the i18n seems to be as broken as earlier. the patch I gave you was supposed to be applied (so as to update the existing 101 patch), not to add as a patch...
[13:02] <Mirv> bryce: could you do another upload and also test that the i18n works with a language of your choice?
[13:03] <doko_> ScottK: seen.I'll at move the package into a private directory probably, so that it gets out of sys.path
[13:25] <Riddell> evand: no-reboot and no minimise button changed made in kde_ui
[13:26] <Riddell> evand: do let me know when ui changes like that happen so I can make them happen in kde_ui too
[13:26] <Riddell> calc: thanks for the minimise issue poke ^^
[13:29] <pitti> _MMA_: can you please check the ACLs of /dev/bus/usb/...?
[13:29] <pitti> _MMA_: and whether ck-list-sessions has a local session for you?
[13:31] <\sh> hmmm..the compile archs for wine are written in the PAS file?
[13:52] <evand> Riddell: will do in the future and thanks. fwiw, both were on my TODO list.
[13:54] <Riddell> evand: then I rephrase, "do let me know when ui changes like that happen so I can make sure they don't get too low priority on your TODO" :)
[13:56] <sistpoty|work> pitti: please give back haskelldb on sparc, thanks!
[13:57] <evand> Riddell: :)
[13:58] <siretart> Riddell: do you remember the dvd playing issue you asked me last week?
[13:58] <siretart> Riddell: FYI, I've filed bug #204563 about it
[13:58] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 204563 in gxine "Update to gxine 0.5.901-1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/204563
[14:00] <Riddell> siretart: this is gxine only?
[14:01] <siretart> Riddell: I couldn't reproduce it with totem-xine, but I have to admit that I didn't have to time to test other players
[14:01] <siretart> Riddell: you didn't answer my question what player you have used that time ;)
[14:01] <Riddell> kaffeine and xine-ui
[14:02] <siretart> ok, I'll check xine-ui this evening
[14:02] <Riddell> thanks
[14:02] <siretart> but for gxine, I know that the version in hardy has serious locking issues.
[14:02] <siretart> do you know if the feature freeze request is missing something?
[14:03] <siretart> if you have a sek to look at it only, of course
[14:05] <Riddell> siretart: not that I can see, but its for the universe review team to judge
[14:06] <siretart> Riddell: err, both apps are in main
[14:06] <siretart> both gxine and xine-lib, that is
[14:06] <siretart> (that's why I didn't bother with xine-ui too much, TBH)
[14:09] <Riddell> siretart: Directory: pool/universe/g/gxine
[14:11] <siretart> oh? gxine got demoted? why doesn't anyone tell me!
[14:11] <siretart> :)
[14:12] <Riddell> xine-lib too
[14:12] <Riddell> no
[14:12] <Riddell> xine-ui too
[14:12] <jdong> can a core-dev look at bug 188261 for me?
[14:12] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 188261 in pm-utils "[debdiff] pm-utils modunload nonfunctional" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/188261
[14:12] <jdong> It's a trivial straightforward fix
[14:13] <jdong> mjg59: ^^
[14:13] <mjg59> jdong: I'm not a core-dev
[14:13] <mjg59> But pitti's been working on pm-utils
[14:15] <jdong> mjg59: wha? really??
[14:18] <Mithrandir> jdong: uploaded
[14:48] <buttterz> hello, who would i talk to about committing a deb to the repository
[14:49] <Lamego> probably you should start at #ubuntu-motu, I am assuming it will be an universe package
[14:49] <buttterz> Lamego , hello again -- its a truecrypt wrapper.
[14:52] <buttterz> Lamego , appreciated -- i'll take care of it
[15:10] <calc> Riddell: ah yea :)
[15:10] <calc> Riddell: also if you continue to use the live cd after doing the install it shows all the dirs from the root of the cd on the desktop
[15:10] <calc> Riddell: not sure if there is a way to clean that up
[15:11] <calc> anyone know how I should make this work?
[15:11] <calc> LANG=es_US.UTF-8 oowriter
[15:11] <calc> it gives me this:
[15:11] <calc> (process:20108): Gdk-WARNING **: locale not supported by C library
[15:11] <calc> (soffice:20108): Gtk-WARNING **: Locale not supported by C library. Using the fallback 'C' locale.
[15:11] <calc> then shows it in english for me anyway
[15:11] <Lamego> calc, es_US ?
[15:11] <ogra_cmpc> heh
[15:11] <ogra_cmpc> yay for typos
[15:12] <calc> Lamego: well es_MX does the same, etc
[15:12] <calc> spanish US
[15:12] <calc> not typo
[15:12] <ogra_cmpc> thats actually existing ?
[15:12] <Lamego> there is a spanish US ?
[15:12] <calc> /usr/share/i18n/locales/es_US
[15:12] <calc> it looks like it
[15:12] <ogra_cmpc> yeah
[15:12]  * ogra_cmpc hides again
[15:12] <calc> even es_ES.UTF-8 gives me the error
[15:13] <ogra_cmpc> calc, you did "sudo locale-gen es_US.UTF-8" before ?
[15:13] <pitti> calc: locale -a shows the existing locales
[15:13] <calc> ogra_cmpc: no, i thought i had made it work in the past without having to do that
[15:13] <Spads> we have a locale for US Spanish?
[15:14] <calc> i must have just been testing various other countries english in the past
[15:14] <ogra_cmpc> es_US will be generated by the language-pack-es-base package i thik
[15:14] <calc> well it works now after doing locale-gen :)
[15:14] <ogra_cmpc> *think
[15:14] <Lamego> you need to localcal-gen it, it is not generated by default, not if you selected an english install
[15:15] <Lamego> only en_* are generated if you select an english install
[15:15] <ogra_cmpc> well, all others are generated by iunstalling the $lang-base packages
[15:15] <calc> now i have to remember enough spanish from school to see if this bug is fixed :-) heh
[15:15] <ogra_cmpc> *installing
[15:16] <calc> the bug is fixed, yipee :)
[15:17] <calc> 1 down 44 new to go
[15:18] <calc> is there a way to remove a locale i generated if i don't want it anymore?
[15:19] <ogra_cmpc> well, --purge as option to locale-gen would wipe all of the existing ones and only newly generate the one you gave
[15:20] <calc> ogra_cmpc: or can i just manually remove whatever it generated somewhere on disk?
[15:20] <ogra_cmpc> no idea
[15:20] <ogra_cmpc> i usually use the tools for that
[15:20] <calc> looks like it creates a dir under /usr/lib/locale (sounds like a FHS violation)
[15:21] <calc> yea rm'ing that dir made it go away from locale -a
[15:21] <ogra_cmpc> calc, sudo locale-gen --purge en_US.UTF-8 && sudo dpkg-reconfigure language-pack-en-base
[15:21] <ogra_cmpc> that will give you all en locales back and delete everything else in advance
[15:22] <calc> ogra_cmpc: cool :)
[15:23] <calc> now i can test various locales without causing problems :)
[15:31] <calc> ogra_cmpc: local-gen --purge doesn't seem to do anything
[15:31] <calc> doh nm
[15:31] <ogra_cmpc>        --purge
[15:31] <ogra_cmpc>               Remove all existing locales before processing.
[15:31] <ogra_cmpc> :)
[15:31] <ogra_cmpc> man locale-gen
[15:31] <calc> i thought i had a root console but had already exited it when i ran the command
[15:32] <calc> now it works :)
[15:32]  * calc goes to find some caffeine
[15:32] <ogra_cmpc> usually if i give lines like the above you can copy paste them :) old supporter habit ;)
[15:33] <calc> for some reason doing that doesn't change the line in
[15:33] <ogra_cmpc> (if my fingers didnt play tricks on me with the classmate keyboard indeed *g*)
[15:33] <calc> /var/lib/locales/supported.d/local
[15:33] <laga> usually i tell people to read the manual.. different school of support, i guess ;))
[15:33] <calc> so if you manually add a locale with locale foo it adds it there but when you purge it doesn't update it
[15:34] <ogra_cmpc> laga, 1.5years of #ubuntu tought me that ...
[15:34] <calc> laga: there's not really a manual in this particular case wrt running dpkg-reconfigure on the lang pack, etc
[15:34] <laga> ogra_cmpc: heh.. yeah. also the manual is often non-existant
[15:34] <laga> calc: i know
[15:34] <laga> i wasn't being serious
[15:34] <calc> ogra_cmpc: thanks for the help :)
[15:34] <ogra_cmpc> calc, well, the sudo locale-gen --purge en_US.UTF-8 should have cleared it according to the manpage
[15:35] <ogra_cmpc> but you need to have a new locale as option as i understood it
[15:35] <calc> ogra_cmpc: it clears out the files in /usr/lib/locales/ but didn't seem to update the static local file in /var/lib/locales/supported.d/local
[15:35] <ogra_cmpc> ah
[15:35] <calc> not sure if that really hurts anything or not
[15:35] <ogra_cmpc> i'm not sure how the backend stuff works here, pitti would though
[15:36] <pitti> calc: right, it should remove it from supported.d/local, but it's only a minor bug
[15:36] <calc> pitti: ok
[15:36] <calc> pitti: i don't know enough about locales to know if it was a big issue :)
[16:41] <asac> TheMuso: awake still?
[16:55] <LaserJock> pitti: I'm uploading a squeak package that's not going to go to source NEW
[16:55] <pitti> LaserJock: what do you mean?
[16:55] <LaserJock> I'm keeping the naming scheme and licensing of the current packages
[16:55] <LaserJock> so it won't go to source NEW
[16:55] <pitti> ah, I see
[16:56] <LaserJock> but the -sources and -image packages will
[16:56] <pitti> as you wish
[16:56] <pitti> LaserJock: was the licensing situation clarified?
[16:56] <LaserJock> do you want me to split them up so they aren't native?
[16:56] <LaserJock> pitti: not terribly well
[16:56] <pitti> LaserJock: if they are in Debian, they should be as close as possible to Debian; if not, it doesn't matter much
[16:56] <LaserJock> pitti: the author seems to have amnesia about how he licensed his software
[16:57] <LaserJock> pitti: well the debian package is an svn snapshot and will be MIT
[16:57] <pitti> non-native is always better, of course, but not if it's too much trouble
[16:57] <LaserJock> pitti: but the package doesn't work at all
[16:57] <LaserJock> so I'm keeping the naming scheme that is used in Debian (and what we were using before) but with the stable packages
[16:58] <LaserJock> for Hardy I'd rather have packages that actually work
[16:58] <ogra_cmpc> ++
[16:58] <LaserJock> and for Intrepid we can sync up with Debian
[16:58] <LaserJock> as I'm assuming by then the package will have the bugs worked out
[16:58] <ogra_cmpc> not having a working squeak for an LTS would pretty much harm us in the edu world
[16:59] <ogra_cmpc> LaserJock, btw, did you ever try it on a classmate ?
[16:59] <ogra_cmpc> :)
[16:59] <LaserJock> no, I didn't even think about it
[16:59] <ogra_cmpc> :)
[16:59] <LaserJock> I guess since they use it on the OLPC it would be a good thing to try
[17:00] <ogra_cmpc> i'll do as soon as we have working packages
[17:00] <aguthrie> is there a reason why people still have to configure their mice manually using xorg.conf? surely it would be easy to recognize the mouse and automatically set this up so all mouse buttons work by default
[17:01] <LaserJock> aguthrie: I've never heard of anybody having to do it manually
[17:01] <jeromeg> LaserJock: maybe he speaks of 5 buttons mice
[17:01] <ogra_cmpc> LaserJock, well, you didnt meet people with 27button mice , fingerprint reader and coffe machine included yet i guess
[17:01] <aguthrie> I do
[17:02] <jeromeg> i've heard some people complaining about this
[17:02] <aguthrie> well, most mice have back/forward buttons today, no?
[17:02]  * ogra_cmpc doesnt have one among 20 he owns
[17:02] <aguthrie> I mean, I guess most people who use those are power users who could figure out how to set it up with xorg.conf...
[17:02] <aguthrie> but I just don't see why the It Just Works mentality hasn't been implemented with this
[17:03] <jeromeg> aguthrie: the main problem is that the config is different for almost every mouse, so it's not easy to set ;)
[17:03] <ogra_cmpc> aguthrie, there is work going on in hal for such stuff
[17:03] <jeromeg> there does not seem to be a standard
[17:03] <ogra_cmpc> but that will still take a while (not hardy)
[17:03] <aguthrie> ogra_cmpc: where can I find out more about that?
[17:03] <aguthrie> jeromeg: yeah, but there are only so many mice...
[17:03] <ogra_cmpc> read the HAl mailing list at freedesktop org
[17:03] <aguthrie> ogra_cmpc: ok
[17:04] <ogra_cmpc> X input is supposed to completely go to hal eventually
[17:04] <ogra_cmpc> keyboards as well as other input devices
[17:04] <ogra_cmpc> but as i said, not hardy ...
[17:14] <aguthrie> hmm... looks like there was a Google SoC student working on that in summer of '07, but there doesn't seem to have been much progress since then
[17:14] <Ng> win 136
[17:18] <jpatrick> Ng: again? :)
[17:18] <Ng> yes, I fail at IRC ;(
[17:18] <ogra_cmpc> jpatrick, he wins a lot here
[17:18] <ogra_cmpc> all day
[17:19] <LaserJock> I need like: win $1000000
[17:19] <jpatrick> ogra_cmpc: haha :)
[17:26] <slangasek> pitti: thanks for the e2fsprogs upload
[17:28] <pitti> slangasek: you're welcome
[17:35] <alex-weej> are theme bugs good to be fixed? or is there some kind of UI freeze?
[17:35] <slangasek> there is a UI freeze
[17:35] <alex-weej> tooltips in murrine-human aren't using the right keyword
[17:35] <alex-weej> so they appear grey and without any padding
[17:36] <seb128> alex-weej: hardy will use ubuntulooks anyway
[17:36] <slangasek> that would be an appropriate bug to fix, too, IMHO
[17:36] <alex-weej> oh it's being reverted?
[17:36] <alex-weej> actually, the Human theme on my system never changed to murrine
[17:36] <alex-weej> i just keep seeing it in people's pointless screenshot tour blogs
[17:45] <evand> Riddell: Do you have any more casper or ubiquity changes you'd like to get in before I send them to the buildds?
[17:46] <Riddell> evand: no (I'm onto oem-config now)
[17:47] <pitti> seb128: does nauttilus actually open f-spot for you if you plug in a camera?
[17:47] <pitti> seb128: actually, both nautilus and g-v-m are supposed to handle it, but ATM nothing happens at all for me; for you, too?
[17:50] <Riddell> evand: I did send casper to the buildds already
[17:56] <zul> thom: ping (re: puppet)
[17:59] <seb128> re
[17:59] <seb128> pitti: I've be disconnected, did you get my reply?
[17:59] <evand> ah, so you did.  OK
[18:05] <slangasek> ScottK: hmm, do you have any idea what's going on with bug #192622, then?  It's been milestoned, I'm not sure whether it should be but if it should then that puts it on my nag radar :-)
[18:05] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 192622 in kdesudo "[Feature Freeze Exception]New upstream release (kde4 port)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/192622
[18:05]  * ScottK looks.
[18:06] <ScottK> I'll have to ask.
[18:06] <Riddell> slangasek, ScottK: that can be closed, we have kdesudo-kde4 now
[18:06] <ScottK> Riddell: Thanks.
[18:07] <ScottK> So marked
[18:07] <slangasek> yay, thanks :)
[18:08] <thom> zul: yo?
[18:09] <zul> thom: i was looking at the puppet stuff and there is a sync request but ubuntu-archive is not subscribed was that intentional?
[18:09] <tsmithe> hi. could someone take a look at http://launchpadlibrarian.net/12847770/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-hppa.mscore_0.9.1d%2Bdfsg-0ubuntu3_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[18:10] <thom> probably not
[18:10] <tsmithe> it seems that pdftk on hppa depends on libgcj6, which doesn't exist. in fact, on other architectures, pdftk depends on libgcj8-1, which does exist. what's up with hppa?
[18:10] <thom> i think requestsync was bust for me
[18:10] <thom> so i c'n'pd, obviously missed the sub
[18:10] <zul> thom: i guess it needs to go through motu-release now as well
[18:10] <thom> we really don't particularly want to ship current puppet, it's pretty bust
[18:11] <zul> ah ok
[18:11] <slangasek> tsmithe: what's up is that pdftk isn't up-to-date on hppa
[18:11] <slangasek> so it probably had a FTBFS
[18:11] <slangasek> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/pdftk/1.41-2 is bound to tell you more
[18:12] <tsmithe> slangasek, yeah - http://launchpadlibrarian.net/12293105/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-hppa.pdftk_1.41-2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[18:12] <tsmithe> segfault in compiling
[18:13] <slangasek> yes
[18:13] <tsmithe> does it need a re-upload to try again? how would one debug a segfault in the build process on hppa?
[18:13] <slangasek> no, you don't reupload just to make the buildd retry
[18:13] <tsmithe> didn't think so
[18:13] <slangasek> you talk to the porters / buildd admins
[18:13] <Riddell> evand: oem-config changes committed, are you planning an upload?  I see a bunch of changes that havn't been uploaded for a couple of weeks
[18:14] <slangasek> debugging -> get access to an hppa, or harrass the porters to do it :)
[18:14] <ScottK> tsmithe: For hppa that's lamont
[18:14] <tsmithe> ScottK, slangasek, thanks :)
[18:15] <tsmithe> lamont, are you available?
[18:15] <lamont> tsmithe: if it's a reproducible segv, then it's "get on a machine"
[18:15] <lamont> if it's not so reproducible, well, sometimes that happens... :-(
[18:15] <lamont> infinity: you wanna give back pdftk on hppa
[18:15] <tsmithe> i'm not sure if it's reproducible... i don't have an hppa machine to check
[18:16] <lamont> ScottK: what package did you want given back in dapper-backports again>?
[18:16] <lamont> tsmithe: the simple check is to give it back and see if it does it again... == "reproducible" :)
[18:16] <tsmithe> i'm not familiar with the term "to give back" ;)
[18:16] <ScottK> lamont: postfix on all archs except i386.
[18:18] <lamont> tsmithe: it's buildd-admin speak for "have a buildd try it again"
[18:18] <lamont> (give it back to the pool of needs-build stuff)
[18:18] <slangasek> lamont: we should start saying "zurückgeben" for clarity
[18:18] <ogra_cmpc> slangasek, why did you unmilestone bug #198157 ?
[18:18] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 198157 in ltsp "ltsp-update-image: /opt/ltsp/i386 is hardcoded in some places" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/198157
[18:19] <tsmithe> ah right, cheers. then, if that succeeds, i could request mscore be given back?
[18:19] <Trollinator> did anybody here ever write a kernel module? I can't compile my kernel module because it doesn't find the necessary include files :/
[18:19] <lamont> tsmithe: well, inifinity is really the right one to abuse^Wrequest it of.
[18:20] <lamont> I am occasionally willing to abuse my admin-privs for hppa stuff, but I shouldn't, so I tend not to...
[18:20] <slangasek> ogra_cmpc: because the milestone list needs to be usable as a list of "these things block the release"; IMHO that one should not - please still fix it as intended, but if you don't have time, that looks to me like a fix we can live without
[18:20] <tsmithe> ok, thanks. infinity, ^^ :)
[18:20] <infinity> lamont: given-back.
[18:20] <infinity> lamont: Of course, I doubt the ICE was transient...
[18:20] <ogra_cmpc> slangasek, damned ... i should stop using it as personal TODO list then i guess :)
[18:20] <slangasek> probably not, it's gcj
[18:21] <lamont> tsmithe: ICE (internal compiler error) != SEGV..
[18:21] <infinity> slangasek: Yeah, exactly. :/
[18:21] <lamont> oh
[18:21] <tsmithe> lamont, hmm ok
[18:21] <lamont> gcj?  hppa?  yeah, like that's gonna work in hardy
[18:21] <slangasek> ogra_cmpc: you may find https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ogra/+assignedbugs?orderby=status more useful :)
[18:21] <ogra_cmpc> slangasek, but you are right, its one of these "if i manage to not forget about it" bugs
[18:22] <lamont> tsmithe: failure of a java package to build on hppa/hardy is taken as a given, and certainly does not (should not) be taken as a defect in the package
[18:22] <evand> Riddell: I have no additional changes, so if you want to upload it, feel free.  Otherwise I'll take care of it after I upload ubiquity.
[18:22] <infinity> lamont: DOES NOT BE TAKEN!  ENGRISH BERRY HARDO!
[18:23] <Riddell> evand: probably better if you do
[18:24] <evand> Riddell: will do
[18:24] <tsmithe> lamont, to be fair, i've never come across an hppa machine, and i doubt mscore (for which pdftk, thus libgcj8-1) will have much use there, so i'm not too worried. i just like it to be clean on the stats :)
[18:25] <slangasek> infinity: say it with me: "zurückgeben"
[18:25] <infinity> slangasek: I would, but then the Canonical.de contingent will think they've won.
[18:26] <infinity> slangasek: I don't need mvo marching around in my living room and plating flags in my couch.
[18:26] <slangasek> heh
[18:26] <infinity> planting, too.
[18:26] <slangasek> infinity: it's ok! he'll bring tea!
[18:26] <lamont> tsmithe: yeah.  me too.  the issue right now is that java and hppa aren't exactly speaking to each other
[18:29] <mib_t3v1a82d> Hey guys, I just wanna make sure before I file this as a bug. I have Dell D830 with Nvdia Quadro NVS 140M. After I installed the Nvidia Driver it loads in a low-resolution. Everything was uptodate
[18:31] <_MMA_> mib_t3v1a82d: Try using nvidia-settings to set the res. Otherwise I still use a full xorg.conf.
[18:31] <_MMA_> mib_t3v1a82d: Is this Gutsy or Hardy?
[18:31] <mib_t3v1a82d> It is hardy
[18:31] <mib_t3v1a82d> In Gusty it was working pretty good
[18:32] <_MMA_> mib_t3v1a82d: Then #ubuntu+1 would be the best place to work this out.
[18:32] <mib_t3v1a82d> Ah OK .. thanks
[19:26] <evand> Riddell: can you merge your changes for casper 1.126 into trunk?  I think you forgot to bzr push.
[19:32] <bryce> Mirv: actually that patch 101 comes from upstream and is autogenerated based on their git tree, so I'm trying to keep all "our" patches independent to that, so I can update patch 101 periodically as new stuff comes down the pipe, and leave our patches alone
[19:32] <bryce> Mirv: but I'll redo your patch so it works properly and re upload
[19:43] <Riddell> evand: let me look
[19:45] <zul> slangasek: any thought on the samba ucf stuff?
[19:46] <slangasek> zul: "kill me now"? :)
[19:46] <zul> slangasek: heh how about reverting it?
[19:46] <slangasek> zul: I don't think that's a good idea
[19:47] <slangasek> this is something that's been needed for a *long* time
[19:47] <zul> gotcha
[19:47] <slangasek> and not having it in hardy will just mean another 5 years of config upgrade problems
[19:47] <zul> yay! :)
[19:48] <slangasek> anyway, I have a 3.0.28a-1ubuntu1 merge in the works, which I want to finish up and get uploaded
[19:48] <slangasek> then we can look at the remaining ucf issues against a clean background
[19:48] <slangasek> (grumble, need an Ubuntu samba branch, mutter)
[19:49] <Riddell> evand: should be it now
[19:49] <zul> slangasek: if you are too busy I could do it for you
[19:50] <slangasek> zul: I'm almost done with the merge, that's the easy part
[19:50] <zul> ah
[19:50] <evand> thanks Riddell
[19:54] <slangasek> zul: hmm, looks like one thing that will let us get a head start on the ucf stuff would be triaging of bug #206036
[19:54] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 206036 in samba "package samba 3.0.28a-0ubuntu3 failed to install/upgrade: " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/206036
[19:55] <slangasek> that's almost certainly ucf-related again, and we may need more detail about pre-upgrade config contents
[19:57] <Mirv> bryce: ah, I understand. but ok thanks, waiting for it.
[20:01] <shaya> sort of wondering why the vmsplice() security hole hasn't been fixed in gutsy?
[20:03] <shaya> nevermind, I'm an idiot
[20:19] <slangasek> zul: 3.0.28a-1ubuntu1 uploading
[20:20] <slangasek> (includes the fix for bug #204703, fwiw)
[20:20] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 204703 in samba "usershare: insuffisant permissions for anonymous login" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/204703
[20:33] <LaserJock> slangasek: is removing dependencies on python-xml a release goal for Main in Hardy?
[20:34] <seb128> LaserJock: I think it's a doko goal rather ;-)
[20:34] <slangasek> LaserJock: uh... python-xml is in universe at this point?
[20:35] <LaserJock> slangasek: right
[20:36] <LaserJock> I'm trying to figure out the feasibility of doing a FFe for gcompris
[20:36] <slangasek> so hopefully there are no such dependencies left in main...
[20:36] <slangasek> confirmed, there aren't
[20:36] <slangasek> if you're asking to add it back, that'll be a "no" then :)
[20:36] <LaserJock> no
[20:37] <LaserJock> I just found a Debian changelog entry saying they removed it
[20:37] <LaserJock> so I don't know if they added the dep between our version and theres or ...
[20:38] <LaserJock> so I guess python-xml is a non-issue
[20:41] <ScottK> LaserJock: We're down to zsi as the only python-xml depends in the archive once a few syncs are done, so please don't make it worse.  We are very close ...
[20:43] <LaserJock> ScottK: no, I *thought* our current package had it because Debian mentioned removing it. Apparently it was added somewhere in between
[20:43] <LaserJock> ScottK: I was trying to get rid of a dep, not create one
[20:43] <ScottK> LaserJock: Great.
[20:43] <ScottK> Just making sure ...
[20:45] <LaserJock> ScottK: np
[20:47] <Mez> hmm, building a new pbuild of gutsy, dpkg segfaults setting up udev ...
[20:55] <alex-weej> what's the consensus on PackageKit? nothing decisive on the LP spec https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/package-kit so i'm wondering if there may be any interest in a policy-kit powered APT without the extra level of abstraction
[20:58] <seb128> alex-weej: not a priority for what I know, it doesn't bring a lot over what we have and doesn't reply to the need anyway since it's non interactive and deb can have questions, etc
[20:59] <alex-weej> all that in respect to PackageKit?
[20:59] <alex-weej> or p-k APT?
[20:59] <alex-weej> policy-kit APT that is
[20:59] <seb128> alex-weej: I think we have other things to solve before trying to switch to a less powerful package management tool
[20:59] <slangasek> heh
[20:59] <alex-weej> seb128: right, but i might be able to have a go at getting something going and it gives me an excuse to learn policykit
[20:59] <seb128> alex-weej: packagekit, policykit is a different topic but that's not really an apt thing
[21:00] <alex-weej> basically i'm asking if it would be a good use of my time to create an APT frontend that runs over dbus
[21:00] <seb128> you should speak to mvo and glatzor about it
[21:01] <seb128> but what would the apt frontend talk to over dbus?
[21:01] <seb128> I'm sure that mvo welcomes patches if they are not too crackfuls ;-)
[21:02] <seb128> but making apt use dbus might not be that trivial
[21:03] <slangasek> yes, I'm looking forward to marking dbus as Essential: yes
[21:04] <slangasek> because the package manager doesn't work without it :)
[21:07] <alex-weej> slangasek: i didn't say apt-get needed to be replaced
[21:11] <alex-weej> it's for privilege separation more than anything else.
[21:11] <alex-weej> synaptic still must be run as root
[21:21] <TheMuso> asac: I'm around now.
[21:23] <asac> TheMuso: thanks. i figured it out. (at least i hope :))
[21:24] <TheMuso> asac: Ok.
[21:35] <_MMA_> pitti: Thanx! The updates worked. Now hopfully SANE fixes my specific issue.
[22:03] <LaserJock> slangasek: would actually uploading hardy documentation for Edubuntu (there is only gutsy documentation now) need a FFe?
[22:03] <mario_limonciell> slangasek, it looks like gawk is suddenly gone on any DVD images generated after 2008-03-18
[22:05] <tjaalton> asac: I know you are terribly busy, but could you update your nm-0.7 packages on your PPA some time?-) there's been some 3G love upstream that I'd like to try out
[22:06] <asac> tjaalton: do the patches still apply?
[22:06] <asac> :)
[22:06] <asac> anyway, i plan to do that once i have a free minute :)
[22:06] <tjaalton> asac: no idea.. I just noticed that there's been some progress upstream :)
[22:08] <asac> lets see ... running  bzr merge http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/network-manager/main
[22:10] <tjaalton> asac: rock :)
[22:10] <asac> strange .. how the hell can i get a conflict in configure.in?
[22:11] <asac> i branched from the same branch and didn't touch that upstream file according to blame
[22:11] <tjaalton> asac: btw, a friend of mine managed to get 0.6.6 working with a 3G card using ppp, but to fully utilize it the 0.7 should be better :)
[22:11] <asac> oh shame on me ... i did touch it ;)
[22:11] <tjaalton> hehe
[22:29] <laga> slangasek: can you please merge rev1286 from the mythbuntu debiancd branch into mainline? http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mythbuntu/debian-cd/mythbuntu-debiancd
[22:29] <laga> slangasek: here's the launchpad interface if you prefer that: https://code.launchpad.net/~mythbuntu/debian-cd/mythbuntu-debiancd
[22:39] <asac> tjaalton: it bails out like http://paste.ubuntu.com/6082/
[22:40] <tjaalton> asac: damn.. thanks for trying though :)
[22:40] <asac> tjaalton: and access-point.xml like http://paste.ubuntu.com/6083/
[22:40] <asac> (just the first lines of course)
[22:40] <asac> no idea why dbus binding tool would fail like this
[22:50] <lifeless> asac: to test that branch I need to build it locally right ?
[22:50] <asac> lifeless: yes.
[22:50] <asac> its an all in one branch ... so no orig needed
[22:51] <lifeless> ok; I'll put it on the todo :)
[22:56] <asac> tjaalton: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/network-manager/ubuntu.0.7 the branch builds but you need a patched dbus-glib with patch from http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=212572
[22:56] <ubotu> bugs.gentoo.org bug 212572 in Ebuilds "dev-libs/dbus-glib - dbus-binding-tool ignore namespaced nodes & attributes" [Normal,New]
[22:59] <tjaalton> asac: wicked, I'll try it out. thanks!
[22:59] <asac> tjaalton: i added the url to the bug to the branch whiteboard
[22:59] <asac> ok off for today
[23:24] <Riddell> doko: which bug is used to track the gutsy-proposed upload of icedtea?
[23:27] <twb> Hi, is there an ETA for new desktop-i386.iso in http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/releases/hardy/ ?  If so, what is it?  (The alpha images have disappeared.)
[23:29] <doko> Riddell: #204221
[23:36] <Riddell> twb: beta was last week
[23:36] <twb> Riddell: where are the .iso's then?
[23:36] <twb> I specifically want the casper/ubiquity .iso, not a jigdo one
[23:36] <twb> *jigdo/d-i
[23:39] <Riddell> twb: #ubuntu
[23:39] <twb> I want a *hardy* image.
[23:39] <twb> I asked #ubuntu+1 and was ignored.
[23:40] <Riddell> http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ubuntu+beta
[23:43] <laga> no daily images anymore?
[23:44] <mario_limonciell> http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/daily-live/
[23:46] <laga> great. :)