[00:34] <jlparise> Good evening everyone hows hug day going?
[00:39] <catterly> this is hug day?
[00:40] <catterly> why I had no idea!
[00:40]  * rockstar_ thought hug days were Thursdays
[00:40] <james_w> catterly: yup, ubiquity one
[00:40] <catterly> oh every Thursday is a hug day?
[00:40] <james_w> rockstar_: tuesdays and thursdays
[00:40] <catterly> I have much to learn
[00:40]  * rockstar_ does too
[00:41] <james_w> I think thursday is a desktop one, and tuesday is "other"
[00:41] <james_w> I don't know what the right term would be, perhaps it's platform
[00:43] <catterly> so what does a hug day for ubiquity imply? is that the installer?
[00:46] <james_w> catterly: yeah, it's the graphical installer (as opposed to the "alternate" one)
[00:47] <james_w> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20080325
[01:24] <jer132> anyone here willing to help me address this?: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/206384/
[01:24] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 206384 in ubuntu "hostname is incorrect on LAN" [Undecided,New]
[01:24] <jer132> I can't get anyone to help me sort it out.
[01:26] <jer132> Everyone in bed?  :)
[01:32] <Tuv0k> try #ubuntu
[01:32] <jer132> This is for Hardy.
[01:33] <jer132> Not Gutsy.
[01:33] <jer132> They told me to go to ubuntu+1 who in turn told me to come here.
[01:40] <jer132> anyone want to help me triage a bug?  Plllleeeeaaassse?  :)
[01:45] <Tuv0k> jer132, #ubuntu+1
[01:46] <jer132> I did.  They old me to come here...
[01:46] <Tuv0k> sorry
[01:46] <jer132> No problem :)  Is there usually not many people here in the channel?
[01:54] <bddebian> Boo
[01:56] <calc> anyone here have dual head that can test a bug for me?
[03:12] <jer132> Can anyone help me figure a bug out?
[03:16] <techno_freak> jer132, which bug?
[03:17] <jer132> techno_freak: This bug - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/206384
[03:17] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 206384 in hostname "hostname is incorrect on LAN ("*", instead of "ubuntu")" [Undecided,New]
[03:19] <techno_freak> hmm
[03:19] <jer132> This is a Hardy bug...  But I'm not sure if I filed this properly.
[03:20] <jer132> I don't even know what package is causing it.
[03:20] <jer132> And I haven't been able to get confirmation that others are experiencing the bug.
[03:21] <JohnPhys> jer132:  what is the issue?
[03:21] <jer132> But this will likely generate issues for people who have more than one ubuntu machine on a lan that will both try and call themselves "*".
[03:22] <techno_freak> JohnPhys, bug #206384
[03:22] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 206384 in hostname "hostname is incorrect on LAN ("*", instead of "ubuntu")" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/206384
[03:24] <JohnPhys> thx
[03:24] <jer132> It's as though everything appears normal.  But something is making the ubuntu system identify itself to the network incorrectly.
[03:25] <jer132> Do you understand what I mean though?
[03:34] <jer132> you guys still there?
[03:35] <Tuv0k> then it aint a bug
[03:36] <jer132> How's it not a bug?
[03:36] <Tuv0k> http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
[03:36] <Tuv0k> because you have know idea what your talking about
[03:36] <Tuv0k> you don't know what package
[03:36] <Tuv0k> nothing
[03:37] <Tuv0k> yet your clamoring on about some none identifiable "bug"
[03:37] <Tuv0k> jer132, http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#id306810
[03:37] <Tuv0k> read it
[03:37] <Tuv0k> please
[03:38] <Tuv0k> Hint: unless you can provide a source-code patch that fixes the problem, or a regression test against a previous version that demonstrates incorrect behavior, you are probably not sure enough.
[03:39] <Tuv0k> Remember, there are many other users that are not experiencing your problem. Otherwise you would have learned about it while reading the documentation and searching the Web (you did do that before complaining, didn't you?). This means that very probably it is you who are doing something wrong, not the software.
[03:40] <JohnPhys> Tuv0k, you're being a bit hostile.
[03:40] <jer132> Tub0k: Lean the difference between know and no.  Thanks.
[03:42] <Tuv0k> JohnPhys, Much of what looks like rudeness in hacker circles is not intended to give offense. Rather, it's the product of the direct, cut-through-the-bullshit communications style that is natural to people who are more concerned about solving problems than making others feel warm and fuzzy.
[03:42] <Tuv0k> but I forget, this is ubuntu afterall
[03:43] <RAOF> Yes.
[03:43] <Tuv0k> we do warm and fuzzy here
[03:43] <jer132> Also, I'm trying to determine the package that is causing this.
[03:43] <Tuv0k> you determine that first
[03:44] <techno_freak> jer132, what does `hostname` on a terminal say?
[03:44] <RAOF> jer132: So, I've only ever installed from the alternate CD, which asks you to select a hostname.  Does the liveCD ask that too?
[03:44] <jer132> It says "ubuntu".
[03:46] <techno_freak> RAOF, think it does
[03:47] <jer132> RAOF:  I installed from the alternate CD.
[03:47] <RAOF> And you left the hostname as Ubuntu?
[03:47] <jer132> yup.
[03:47] <snerfu> My bug got marked as a duplicate to another bug, but when I went to look at the other one, it said I don't have permission to access it.  Is it possible someone with access might be able to paste  or email me the contents or something? https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/179886  any help appreciated, thanks.
[03:48] <JohnPhys> Tuv0k:  There's a difference between cutting through the bullshit and just being rude to someone that genuinely is new to the process and wants to be helpful by filing what they perceive to be a bug.  "Warm & fuzzy" is the price that has to be paid for newcomers in a distro that's being pushed to the "public" and also asks for their help in making the project better.
[03:50] <jer132> Tuv0k: and yes I have searched through the forums and other bug reports and even posted within the forums.  The problem is that nobody can see it from within Ubuntu itself.  Other machines can see it though.  So unless users happen to trip over it they're not likely to run into it and hence not report it.
[03:53] <RAOF> jer132: My machines have been reporting themselves correctly.  Also, I'm not really familiar with that part of the networking stack, so I don't think I can help you.  hostname is probabyl as good a package as any to start with.
[03:54] <Tuv0k> JohnPhys, We could debate this all nite, but I won't. I realize ubuntu is for a certain public. A generally lazy public, that expect wonderment upon install. Wubi is a indicator of such. Not saying jer132 is that type of user, but its frustrating helping people who don't even bother to search the web first, never even visted the forum. And when a user like myself links them, another user comes right behind me, and robs the
[03:54] <Tuv0k>  noob from the wonderment of learning how to fish. Take care.
[03:55] <Tuv0k> jer132, did not mean to hurt your sensibilities
[03:57] <jer132> Tuv0k: it's ok.  I understand how listening to the same mindnumbing questions all the time would drive you up the wall...  But I usually don't come in here asking questions unless I feel that I'm not having luck elsewhere.
[03:58] <jer132> But this is a niche problem that could have a large impact down the road.  At least from the way I see it.
[03:58] <techno_freak> jer132, you can ask people in #ubuntu whether some one ever heard of similar problem
[03:58] <snerfu> I'm not sure ubuntu is for a lazy public really. That happens to be a side effect, sure.
[03:59] <jer132> techno_freak: I did, and then I was quickly escorted to #ubuntu+1 followed by the suggestion that I move this to here.
[03:59] <techno_freak> ubuntu is for human beings, laziness is their virtue ;)
[03:59] <Tuv0k> thats perfect techno
[04:00] <Tuv0k> and all types use ubuntu
[04:00] <techno_freak> jer132, oh ok. but there might be another one in this world who faces similar problem, wait for him to confirm your bug ;)
[04:00] <Tuv0k> but it just seems like the total non-readers gravitate to ubuntu
[04:01] <Tuv0k> but I digress this aint the place
[04:01]  * Tuv0k one to beam up
[04:02] <techno_freak> Tuv0k, some people are of the idea that ubuntu-bugs is for answering your bugs, though we are interested in knowing bugs we look for "real" bugs :)
[04:02] <snerfu> So, I am not really sure bugs should be private by default.  The one I have a duplicate of probably contains no private info.  It could have saved me some time in filing it,
[04:02] <jer132> I read a great deal within the forums.  If not, I likely wouldn't use Ubuntu at all.
[04:02] <techno_freak> snerfu, it becomes private by default? i heard some one telling the same here yesterday, a newly filed bug became private or some such
[04:03] <Tuv0k> techno_freak, humour, love it :)
[04:03] <snerfu> when I filed mine last night it was set to private and I had to unset it.
[04:03] <RAOF> snerfu: Bugs aren't private by default.  Bugs with a _coredump_, uploaded by apport, are private by default.
[04:03] <snerfu> ah
[04:03] <JohnPhys> techno_freak:  I think those are only the ones that are auto-filed through apport, since they may have sensitive info in them with all of the data it collects.
[04:03] <techno_freak> JohnPhys, ah ok :)
[04:03] <RAOF> snerfu: Because that coredump contains an arbitrary chunk of your memory.  Which can contain such things as your password, bank account details/passwords, etc.
[04:04] <snerfu> Ok cool, that solves my concern then.
[04:04] <JohnPhys> RAOF:  Do you know if the devs "public" the bug report after cleaning up password info and such?
[04:04] <RAOF> Once the apport retracer has gone through and processed the coredump, extracted all the needed information, and removed the coredump it then sets it as public.
[04:05] <JohnPhys> thx
[04:05] <RAOF> Unless the retracer fails; then the coredump remains, and the bug remains private until you do something.
[04:06] <snerfu> Hmm it still might be nice just to see the title of it or something.
[04:28]  * DOOM_NX good morning all! :)
[04:29] <jer132> Ok folks.  I've marked my bug as invalid/private and deleted it as I don't have a patch to provide to fix it as Tuv0k suggested.  Sorry to cause disruption.  :)
[04:31] <catterly> you can delete bugs?
[04:31] <techno_freak> jer132, you need not always provide a patch. what we look for is bug which tells us what the bug is, how you got it, is it reproducable, if so how?
[04:32] <techno_freak> catterly, s/delete/close/ must have been what he meant
[04:32] <jer132> You can just blot out the text.
[04:33] <jer132> mark it as invalid and private.
[04:36] <jer132> techno_freak: I did explain the problem.  What is not understood?
[04:37] <techno_freak> jer132, there was no problem. you need not have closed the bug yourself, rather waited to see if some one else has the same problem
[04:38] <jer132> No.  I was advised in here that "it ain't a bug".
[04:38] <jer132> So I'll withdraw my claim.
[04:39] <techno_freak> jer132, never have a second thought to report a bug, if you are not able to find a solution else where and you made a honest effort to find one
[04:44] <jer132> Why?  With the attitude expressed in here as seen above I'll just wait until Hardy goes final and then post it.
[04:44] <JohnPhys> jer132:  Try not to let Tuv0k's reponse upset you, there are plenty of other dev's and people in here more than willing to investigate.
[04:46] <techno_freak> jer132, he was one of the other kind, we are here to help with bugs :)
[04:47] <Tuv0k> jer132, http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#not_losing
[04:49] <Tuv0k> I apologized dude, let it go
[04:57] <jer132> Wow.  I've never met anyone that requires a FAQ or terms of engagement in order to conduct themselves.
[05:05] <pleaseandthankyo> can i install ubuntu edubun xunbu kubuntu at the same time?
[05:14]  * techno_freak points pleaseandthankyo to #ubuntu
[05:59] <pleaseandthankyo> ok installed xubuntu and and goubuntu  on top of edubuntu where are they now? and how do i load them?
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[09:02] <bicyclis1>  #
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[14:02] <awen_> bdmurray: a suggestion for a future hug day... bugs in HAL ?
[14:02] <secretlondon> we had one a few weeks ago
[14:07] <bddebian> Boo
[14:10] <secretlondon> hi
[14:10] <bddebian> Heya secretlondon
[14:19] <hggdh> question (I know we had a bugday for Network-Manager just a few ago): anyone with problems with n-m?  I cannot get it to work in roaming mode...
[14:20] <secretlondon> hggdh, I hate it, it always seems to break stuff. however ymmv
[14:21] <hggdh> hi secretlondon -- unfortunately, yes. It does help with wireless, though
[14:22] <hggdh> but overriding to DHCP "static" mode causes my whole system to think I am offline
[14:23] <secretlondon> which causes the bug in eg firefox and evolution
[14:23] <secretlondon> I set up a serial connection in mine (it doesn't work, but nm now things I'm online all the time
[14:24] <secretlondon> I think if it works it works well, but like a lot of auto stuff if it breaks it breaks totally
[14:32] <secretlondon> tbh I'd rather remove nm totally and set up wifi manually if I needed it
[14:32] <secretlondon> it's not fit for (my) purpose(s)
[15:09] <hggdh> secretlondon: no, right now it is not, unfortunately. I remember, actually, discussing this on SuSE some 3 years ago
[15:39] <Nattgew> ok i have a couple questions
[15:39] <Nattgew> if i have a bug report in spanish should i change summary and description to english?
[15:39] <secretlondon> if you can
[15:40] <rockstar_> Nattgew, yes please
[15:40] <Nattgew> what should i mark bugs that are confirmed in Gutsy, etc. but fixed in Hardy?  leave them alone?
[15:40] <secretlondon> if they are fixed in gutsy (and it's unlikely that we will backport) then fix released
[15:41] <Nattgew> but fixed in Hardy just leave it as is
[15:41] <seb128> no
[15:42] <seb128> any bug fixed in hardy should be closed
[15:42] <seb128> when the fix is available in ubuntu the bug is closed, a gutsy task can be opened if that requires a backport though
[15:42] <JohnPhys> how can I make it so that bugs that I file go to the ocrrect release?  (hardy, gutsy, etc)
[15:42] <seb128> and don't translate bugs, close those as support request
[15:43] <seb128> you should mention in the description what version of ubuntu you are using
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[17:41] <afflux> morning
[17:42] <secretlondon> hi
[17:46] <afflux> 5-a-day-stats ignores 40 bugs again... any ideas on how to sort out what's wrong?
[17:47] <andrea-bs> afflux: it ignores bugs which are listed more than once
[17:48] <afflux> andrea-bs: yep
[17:48] <afflux> andrea-bs: checking..
[17:49] <afflux> andrea-bs: there are no duplicates in it
[17:50] <andrea-bs> afflux: does all bugs affect ubuntu?
[17:50] <afflux> andrea-bs: not sure, and I have no idea how to check that
[17:51] <afflux> hm, could write something using python-lp-bugs
[17:52] <andrea-bs> afflux: you can also use the +text page
[17:53] <afflux> err, how?
[17:53] <thekorn> afflux, is just the stats page ignoring yyour bugs or are these bugs not even committed to the branch?
[17:53] <afflux> thekorn: they are committed
[17:53] <andrea-bs> afflux: something like https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24/+bug/207245/+text
[17:53] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 207245 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24 "package nvidia-glx-new 100.14.19+2.6.22.4-14.10 failed to install/upgrade: " [Undecided,New]
[17:53] <afflux> andrea-bs: ah
[17:54] <afflux> andrea-bs: hm, I'll use python ;)
[17:54] <afflux> andrea-bs: thanks anyway
[17:54] <afflux> (but I bet it's not 40 bugs which are not in ubuntu)
[17:54] <andrea-bs> afflux: with wget + grep is simpler IMHO :D
[17:54] <afflux> andrea-bs: NO WAY!!!!!!! ;)
[17:55] <andrea-bs> afflux: ;)
[17:55] <secretlondon> afflux: the 5 a day infrastructure isn't very good. I managed to block it yesterday (unknowingly) as the applet may have crashed
[17:55] <afflux> secretlondon: haha, I noticed that :)
[17:55] <thekorn> afflux, dholbach is on vacation, but I think i know the reason:
[17:56] <thekorn> can you please remove ubuntu-bugcontrol from your teams file
[17:56] <thekorn> there might be an error in the teams filter
[17:58] <afflux> guess I missed the hourly updates to the stats page now..
[17:58] <afflux> thekorn: thanks for helping, I'll check if that was the problem ;)
[17:59] <thekorn> afflux, if this does not help, please file a bug, so daniel can fight with it :)
[17:59] <afflux> k, will do that
[18:02] <qense> hello
[18:02] <secretlondon> hi
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[18:28] <afflux> I'm not sure what to do with bug 205493. It's not a bug with the camara, nor cheese/gstreamer, because the images are correct but the display resolution is not.
[18:28] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 205493 in gst-plugins-good0.10 "[Hardy] Wrong video x-y-ratio with mbp internal webcam" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/205493
[18:28] <afflux> Well, the resolution seems to be correct, too, but the output is obviously not.
[18:29] <james_w> afflux: so do they look wrong in cheese?
[18:30] <james_w> do they look wrong if opened in e.g. gthumb as well?
[18:30] <afflux> james_w: they seem to look wrong when he is using ubuntu
[18:30] <james_w> all apps?
[18:30] <afflux> james_w: I'm not sure
[18:30] <james_w> it would be useful to know.
[18:31] <james_w> if it's just e.g. cheese then the bug is there, but if it's e.g. all apps using gstreamer then it's a bug in that
[18:31] <james_w> if it's all apps on Ubuntu then I don't know where it would be.
[18:31] <afflux> james_w: well, the cam is not the problem
[18:32] <james_w> no, but I imagine that it is whatever he is looking at them in that is scaling the pictures for his resolution
[18:32] <afflux> hm
[18:32] <james_w> and that's what he doesn't like.
[18:32] <afflux> I'll ask him
[18:34] <afflux> james_w: ah, I asked him to draw a circle and a square in OS X and look at it in ubuntu, he said that they look correct
[18:34] <afflux> james_w: not sure if that helps
[18:36] <james_w> crazy
[18:36] <james_w> it would be interesting to know what apps this is
[18:37] <james_w> did he view the drawings in the same app as he viewed the photos?
[18:37] <afflux> james_w: not sure, I just asked him for testing other viewers
[18:37] <james_w> great, thanks
[19:56] <Raseel> Hi !! I want to get involved with the Ubuntu BugSquad  team. Can someone please tell me what time is the Hug Day ?
[19:56] <pedro_> Raseel: March 27 in all the timezones
[19:57] <pedro_> that's tomorrow at least for me ;-)
[19:58] <Raseel> yeah , :-). but what time ?
[19:58] <Raseel> @pedro_ : as in, I'm from India, so I need to do a local time conversion so that I can participate
[19:58] <pedro_> Raseel: the whole day basically
[19:59] <bicyclist> What is the topic for the next hug day ?
[20:00] <pedro_> bicyclist: GDM, GNOME Screensaver and Konqueror
[20:01] <pedro_> Raseel: you can come and ask at any time you want to, there's always people willing to help here on the channel
[20:01] <bicyclist> Ok, count me in.
[20:01] <pedro_> bicyclist: rock on!
[20:02] <pedro_> we have a brief list of bugs here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20080327
[20:02] <pedro_> in case you want to start look at them
[20:02] <Raseel> pedro_: Ok, I'm gonna take that as, Hug Day is on 25th March PST
[20:02] <bicyclist> Thanx , firefox already started up.
[20:02] <Raseel> pedro_ : I am looking at the list
[20:02] <pedro_> and there's also the Konqueror page, if you're using  Kubuntu https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20080327/KDE
[20:08] <pedro_> gotta run now
[20:09] <pedro_> Raseel, bicyclist hope to see your name on the triagers list of the hug day page  ;-)
[20:09] <pedro_> see you later
[20:09] <bicyclist> Hope to be able to help, see you .
[20:11] <Raseel> pedro_:I hope so too ;-)
[20:28] <secretlondon> Raseel it's the 24 hours on your time zone, if anything it is more europe than pst
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[21:41] <cge> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sudo/+bug/207369 - does this look more like a joke or an actual reaction to vi?
[21:41] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 207369 in sudo ""visudo" is completely unusable (/etc/sudoers can only be editted with an external text editor)" [Undecided,New]
[21:42] <cge> Also, did visudo use nano instead of vi at some time in the past?
[21:46] <james_w> cge: visudo uses $EDITOR
[21:47] <james_w> so, there are a couple of things that may be happening here:
[21:47] <james_w> 1. the user changed their setting of this.
[21:51] <james_w> sorry, sidetracked
[21:51] <ogra_cmpc> james_w, he's likely used to vim while we ship the tiny version where vi actually behaves like good old unix vi (no cursor key support etc)
[21:51] <cge> ogra_cmpc: actually, it sounds like he doesn't know about vi at all.
[21:51] <cge> Also, visudo doesn't use $EDITOR in all cases.
[21:52] <james_w> 3. there's a configuration option that may have changed in debian/rules between the releases
[21:52] <james_w> 4. env handling changes in sudo may mean that $EDITOR is no longer set to what it was in the sudo environment
[21:53] <ogra_cmpc> cge, well, it does by default .. if a user doesnt know about vi i doubt he has changed it
[21:53] <james_w> so 'echo "$VISUAL | $EDITOR; sudo echo "$VISUAL | $EDITOR"' may be a good start
[21:55] <ogra_cmpc> hmm
[21:55] <cge> interesting, yes
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[23:38] <Tuv0k> update broke liferea