[01:05] <Ng> jdong: could the tiny fix for #190679 sneak into hardy?
[01:05] <Amaranth> bug 190679
[01:05] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 190679 in pm-utils "Most recent package update breaks loading /etc/pm/config.d/*" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/190679
[01:07]  * Ng also generally curious why pm-utils doesn't unload network drivers like acpi-support does
[01:08] <Ng> e1000 stops my laptop suspending if it's loaded at the time
[01:59] <dashua> slomo, ping.
[02:52] <jdong> Ng: talk to Mithrandir, I can't upload it anyway :)
[03:11] <joshudson> Here's something interesting: the old procedure documentented in https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FeistyUpgradesManual almost works for upgrading fiesty to hardy
[03:11] <joshudson> I have exact directions if someone can tell me where to post them
[03:12] <_MMA_> joshudson: Why not edit that page?
[03:13] <jdong> joshudson: you shouldn't really use the manual upgrade unless the system is already too broken to run the standard upgrader
[03:13] <ScottK> Please don't
[03:13] <ScottK> Please don't put instructions on h.u.c on how to do things that are explicitly not supported.
[03:13] <jdong> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HardyUpgrades
[03:13] <joshudson> It draws less bandwidth then trying to upgrade version by version
[03:14] <jdong> THESE are the ONLY UPGRADE PROCEDURES that should be attempted
[03:14] <jdong> all others are completely unsupported
[03:14] <ScottK> !worksforme | joshudson
[03:14] <ubotu> joshudson: Common Sense: Just because you can, does not mean you should (and especially recommend to others). Think before you do. "Works for me" does not mean it is ok. The latest version of everything is not always useful if you aim for stability. Please see http://geekosophical.net/random/worksforme/
[03:14] <jdong> you are on your own if something goes wrong before, during, or after the upgrade.
[03:14] <ScottK> So please don't encourage others to go off the supported path.
[03:14] <joshudson> all right, I won't
[03:15] <jdong> there's a *reason* we don't support hopping upgrades. and it's not because we get ad revenue from additional bandwidth to the apt repos
[03:15] <jdong> though I think that would be a great idea if we do adwords in apt-get and the revenue goes to jdong@ubuntu.com paypal.
[03:15] <joshudson> lol
[03:15] <ScottK> joshudson: I don't generally update the approved way and it almost always works for me, but I'd never encourage someone else to take the risks I take.
[03:16] <jdong> joshudson: then again, ScottK is a core developer and you are pobably an experienced Ubuntu user yourself who isn't afraid to get your hands dirty fixing minor upgrade breakages
[03:16] <joshudson> I'm not an experienced ubuntu developer
[03:16] <jdong> joshudson: but others might not be, and from my experience 90% of "upgrades are broken" whining are directly caused by users not following correct upgrade procedures
[03:16] <_MMA_> jdong: "we don't support hopping upgrades" I haven't had 1 Dapper->Hardy test box work. :P
[03:17] <joshudson> This was my first upgrade (didn't have a GUI to try the normal procedure)
[03:17] <orbisvicis> why does ubuntu have a upgrade cycle ... why not just release newer packages as they come?
[03:17] <jdong>  joshudson if you read HardyUpgrades, there are command line supported upgrade paths too
[03:17] <ScottK> joshudson: There's a command line option too.
[03:17] <joshudson> which isn't indexed by google yet btw
[03:17] <jdong> orbisvicis: because new packages often introduce changes that make them non-backwards-compatible
[03:17] <lifeless> orbisvicis: many users want stability
[03:17] <ScottK> orbisvicis: If you want that, just run Debian Unstable.
[03:17] <lifeless> orbisvicis: others want long term stability
[03:18] <lifeless> orbisvicis: and some want latest features
[03:18] <jdong> orbisvicis: a rolling release distro means every time you hit the upgrade button you have NO GUARANTEE that your existing config files or apps will continue to work without tweaking config files, rebuilding custom apps, etc
[03:18] <lifeless> orbisvicis: so we have releases, long term support releases, and development
[03:18] <jdong> orbisvicis: think about whether or not an administrator of 70 laptops used by 300 students daily, like me, would want that....
[03:19] <joshudson> I'm a rather experienced slackware user. If something broke I could probably fix it, unless it was udev.
[03:19] <orbisvicis> jdong, i hadnt considered your last two statements, but i find stability an invalid argument, as users are often locked into packages with major bugs fixed in newer packages
[03:20] <jdong> joshudson: slackware teaches you to explore around and fix things
[03:20] <jdong> orbisvicis: then those bugs should be fixed. Frozen releases do not preclude bugfixes, we just ask bugfixes to be done as bugfixes only
[03:20] <jdong> orbisvicis: in open source projects, one can choose just to apply changes to the code directly pertinent to the bugs
[03:21] <jdong> orbisvicis: and as a member of the team that approves such bugfix updates, I encourage everyone to do this
[03:21] <joshudson> It was also the only non-rpm distro that didn't assume the user had broadband (everything is on 2 cds. I wish the default ubuntu installs did as good a job of picking packages)
[03:21] <joshudson> at least back when I started
[03:21] <lifeless> orbisvicis: stability means 'no new bugs', not 'no bugs'
[03:21] <jdong> orbisvicis: also, Ubuntu Backports can be used to provide new versions of stuff as long as it doesn't horribly break everything. and I am also a part of the team that approves those updates :)
[03:22] <joshudson> Did any of you every try apt-get install gcc after a fresh ubuntu install and wonder why gcc didn't work?
[03:22] <ScottK> joshudson: Keep in mind Ubuntu is squeezing into one CD, not two.
[03:22] <orbisvicis> hmm well i like browsing hardy source (even debian) and pulling packages from them, but why not provide a tool that does this automatically as the dependencies get tedious
[03:23] <joshudson> good point. Only the second cd on slackware has only kde and tex
[03:23] <RAOF> joshudson: You mean apt-get? :P
[03:23] <ScottK> orbisvicis: Because pakcages have to be rebuilt as the toolchain changes.
[03:24] <joshudson> yeah
[03:24] <joshudson> It turned out that gcc had some unstated dependency
[03:24] <ion_> cjwatson: I updated the compcache packaging to use debconf to set the cache size.
[03:24] <joshudson> apt-get build-dep dash works
[03:25] <StevenK> It's assumed build-essential (or at least everything it depends on) is installed if you want to build things.
[03:25] <joshudson> also dpkg needs dependencies of gzip, bzip and tar (found that out when trying to get dpkg working on my slackware box)
[03:25] <orbisvicis> ScottK, toolchain? bison, gcc, make, etc ?
[03:25] <orbisvicis> or libraries
[03:25] <joshudson> ah that's why
[03:25] <joshudson> build-essential wasn't installed by default and I didn't know of its existance
[03:25] <StevenK> Because not everyone wants a build environment. :-)
[03:25] <jdong> orbisvicis: see prevu
[03:26] <jdong> orbisvicis: it's a one/two command tool for rebuilding source packages from the development release to run on the current release
[03:26] <joshudson> I've been around too long. I can't even imagine not wanting a build environment
[03:27] <StevenK> I can. It's called the server behind me. :-)
[03:27] <joshudson> g
[03:28] <joshudson> And I'd be screaming bloody murder if I discovered one of my servers didn't have it the first time I tried to compile my maintaince utils
[03:28] <orbisvicis> jdong, thanks
[03:28] <joshudson> (an ordinary sysadmin probably would use shell scripts but they barf on unsanatary file names)
[03:29] <orbisvicis> but i dont understand what ScottK meant though
[03:29] <jdong> yeah I'd rather *not* provide a build environment on a shell server :)
[03:29] <jdong> that's one of those "please root me now" invitations
[03:29] <jdong> might as well just add em to sudoers and save everyone time.
[03:29] <joshudson> if you are stock ubuntu, uudecode is enough to "root-me-now"
[03:30] <StevenK> That's news to me.
[03:30] <jdong> as to me.
[03:30] <joshudson> besides, some of my tools are still in assembly
[03:31] <jdong> good luck making it match the regex "/usr/rbin/* rixm" :)
[03:31] <jdong> ah, I love restricted shells
[03:31] <ScottK> orbisvicis: Packages are compiles using shared libraries from the packages they build on.  If those shared libraries change, the packages need to be recompiled with the new version to be able to communicate properly.
[03:31] <joshudson> restricted shell, ewwww
[03:33] <jdong> what's wrong with a restricted shell? everything here on my machines runs in restricted contexts :)
[03:33] <jdong> even this irssi I'm typing from
[03:33] <jdong> 23:33 -!- Irssi: process 0 (uname -a) terminated with return code 126
[03:34] <joshudson> it doesn't let the user take any advantage of writing so much as the simplest of automation scripts
[03:34] <jdong> why not? they've got access to perl, python, and their shell for scripting
[03:35] <StevenK> rbash by default will kick itself out of restricted mode in the shell it spawns to run shell scripts.
[03:35] <joshudson> are we talking about two different things? I'm talking about rbash and its ilk
[03:35] <jdong> joshudson: I use apparmor or SELinux to write restricted shell contexts
[03:35] <joshudson> oh, much better
[03:35] <orbisvicis> ScottK, i find that minor versions leave me a bit of leeway, and that ubuntu dependencies can take care of the rest (b/c i remove all current packages bottom up)
[03:35] <jdong> joshudson: the actual shell is usually a bash or zsh type
[03:35] <joshudson> I'm just accustomed to being able to edit myh .profile
[03:36] <ScottK> orbisvicis: It often works.  Sometimes it doesn't.
[03:36] <jdong> orbisvicis: it's not guaranteed to work and I've screwed myself over several times with that assumption in the past
[03:37] <joshudson> I have no problems with most kinds of security settings on servers
[03:38] <joshudson> but the fundamental problem that rbash cannot allow the user to have his own .profile is enough to make me detest it
[03:38]  * orbisvicis testing the limits
[03:39] <joshudson> (you see if it does, .profile can contain PATH=.$PATH)
[03:39] <ScottK> orbisvicis: You are quite welcome to do that.  I use most of my Ubuntu machines for $WORK, so I have a different risk tolerance.
[03:39] <orbisvicis> which brings back to full circle > stability
[03:39] <jdong> joshudson: I typically don't like to play babysitter with shell accounts as it's always a game favoring the attacker...
[03:40] <orbisvicis> anyway, anyone notice that linux-image rt doesnt provide CONFIG_PREEMPT_RT
[03:40] <joshudson> jdong: exactly
[03:40] <jdong> joshudson: this particular usecase is primarily a SFTP filesharing account on one of my lower-security VMs and giving shell access facilitates the kind of organization work needed to be done
[03:40] <jdong> joshudson: I've found Apparmor has made it a lot easier for me to quickly define restricted profiles that seem fairly strong to me
[03:41] <jdong> it'd probably take a kernel-level exploit like the vmsplice one, custom crafted, to break out.
[03:42] <joshudson> My favorite is the /home in chrootjail trick (I spawn a sshd in the chroot jail with passwd, ping, and tracert as the only setuid binaries in the jail)
[03:42] <orbisvicis> zcat /proc/config.gz | grep CONFIG_PREEMPT_RT
[03:42] <orbisvicis> gzip: /proc/config.gz: No such file or directory
[03:43] <jdong> orbisvicis: we don't build with config.gz in /proc, use the config files in /boot instead
[03:43] <orbisvicis> gotcha
[03:45] <orbisvicis> hm i shouldve known that from last time copying the config to rebuild a module
[03:47] <slangasek> LaserJock: I don't believe we should need the FFe process for edubuntu documentation, no
[03:47] <slangasek> mario_limonciell: there's been a change to the contents of DVD images, yes - you needed gawk?
[03:48] <slangasek> mario_limonciell: we can probably get gawk added back, I think - the change is that the DVD no longer ships .debs for all of the supported seed, to make room for a much-expanded livefs with full translations
[03:50] <slangasek> laga: having a look at the debiancd stuff
[04:06] <Frederick> folks have anyone here ever used hibernate relational persistence for java in ubuntu? isnt there a package for it?
[04:26] <twb> I notice that my Ubuntu mirror (and archive.ubuntu.com, I believe) isn't using the rred method to send pdiffs instead of having to resend the whole Packages.gz file with each apt-get update.  Is rred support on a roadmap or something?
[04:29] <LaserJock> twb: I'm sure there is a spec on that somewhere
[05:05] <pleaseandthankyo> can i install ubuntu edubun xunbu kubuntu at the same time?
[05:09] <LaserJock> usually I think so
[05:59] <pleaseandthankyo> ok installed xubuntu and and goubuntu  on top of edubuntu where are they now? and how do i load them?
[06:01] <LaserJock> well, for xubuntu you just select Xfce as the Session in the login screen
[06:02] <LaserJock> and yeah, probably #ubuntu is the place for these questions
[06:02] <pleaseandthankyo> LaserJock what about go ubuntu
[06:03] <LaserJock> well, there's not going to really be a difference between it and ubuntu that you will notice
[06:06] <pleaseandthankyo> how can i load goubuntu?
[06:07] <Fujitsu> pleaseandthankyo: By asking in #ubuntu.
[06:10] <nxvl> Fujitsu: heh, good one
[06:12] <Fujitsu> He'll be back, I'm sure.
[06:15] <Hobbsee> greetings
[06:20] <nixternal> greetings to you too
[06:56] <slomo_> dashua: pong?
[07:00] <pitti> Good morning
[07:00] <Hobbsee> pitti!
[07:55] <asac> slangasek: someone confirmed that iwl3945 works with hidden SSID on my NM branch. however, i saw that benc set the kernel part (scan_capa in iwl*) to fix committed.
[07:55] <asac> slangasek: unfortunately he didn't drop a comment, so i am not sure if its just the latest iwl driver he committed or if he verified that it has scan_capa
[07:56] <asac> slangasek: i will try to get in touch with him before uploading the ap_scan ... if it really has scan_capa we should try to not tweak the iwl chipsets
[07:56] <asac> bug 200950 that is
[07:56] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 200950 in linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24 "[iwl3945] network manager not able to associate to hidden SSID (scan_capa = 0x0)" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/200950
[07:57] <slangasek> asac: I think it's unlikely that your user is testing using that kernel branch...?
[07:58] <slangasek> oh, n/m
[07:58] <asac> slangasek: yes. my branch surely worksaround the issue
[07:58] <asac> but i'd like to not workaround if the kernel module has scan_capa support now
[07:59] <slangasek> IMHO it would be nice to have the workaround in place immediately since the kernel isn't uploaded yet, and users may not reboot to it immediately after it becomes available
[07:59] <slangasek> (I expect it'll be another ABI-changing upload)
[07:59] <asac> agreed, otoh it gets even harder to get feedback on the a nm without the workaround once the kernel modueles are available
[08:00] <slangasek> suer
[08:00] <slangasek> sure
[08:00] <slangasek> if I can figure out how to get into my AP, I could do plenty of testing for iwl3945
[08:01] <StevenK> With a screwdriver? :-P
[08:01]  * StevenK hides
[08:01] <slangasek> actually, I meant to ask you at some point about a problem I have with n-m (or wpa-supplicant directly) not wanting to talk to open APs for me, since, um... about January in London
[08:01] <asac> slangasek: ok. looking at the code the iwl code tweak will not be used anymore once they have scan_capa support.
[08:01] <asac> so it should be safe
[08:01] <slangasek> ok
[08:02] <asac> ok Ill upload. we haven't received feedback for ndiswrapper and atheros yet, but imo it should be fixed as well
[08:02]  * slangasek nods
[08:03] <asac> slangasek:  dpkg-genchanges -S -si >../firefox_2.0.0.13+0nobinonly-1ubuntu0.7.4_source.changes
[08:03] <asac> dpkg-genchanges: including full source code in upload
[08:04] <asac> looks bogus now ;) ... is noone else seeing this?
[08:05] <slangasek> I don't use -si
[08:05] <slangasek> isn't -si supposed to be implicit?
[08:05] <asac> same happens without -si
[08:05] <slangasek> I also don't ever run dpkg-genchanges by hand
[08:05] <asac> slangasek: i don't do that too
[08:05] <asac> i just see that during build
[08:05] <StevenK> -si is implicit, according to the man page
[08:05] <asac> same happens for debuis and dpkg-buildpackage
[08:05] <slangasek> well, I did two uploads today and I didn't notice problems with either of them
[08:06] <asac> strange
[08:06] <slangasek> but maybe that just means I didn't *notice* the problems :)
[08:06] <asac> yeah. i think soyus doesn't complain if you include an already existing orig.tar
[08:22] <tjaalton> asac: hey, did you try to build the nm-0.7 branch?
[08:22] <asac> tjaalton: read the branch comment :)
[08:23] <tjaalton> asac: I know, but debuild failed much earlier :)
[08:23] <tjaalton> it failed because there's no system-settings/plugins ifcfg
[08:23] <tjaalton> +/
[08:24] <asac> tjaalton: oh
[08:24] <asac> i forgot to push the last revision i guess :-P
[08:25] <tjaalton> asac: hehe :)
[08:25] <StevenK> pitti: Oh, could you poke at NBS? There's a whole bunch of packages there that I thought didn't exist.
[08:26] <asac> tjaalton: ok pushing right now
[08:26] <pitti> StevenK: yes, I should get it cleaned up
[08:26] <tjaalton> asac: great, thanks
[08:27] <asac> tjaalton: revno 2789
[08:36] <pitti> keescook, jdstrand: do we have a wiki page about "static code copies"? We are currently discussing main promotion of libarchive, which has the BSD versions of tar and cpio code inside
[08:37] <seb128> Mithrandir, lool: could one of you look at bug ##197145?
[08:37] <pitti> keescook, jdstrand: in intrepid we might switch to bsd's tar which uses libarchive, but too late for hardy
[08:37] <seb128> bug #197145
[08:37] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 197145 in bluez-gnome "REGRESSION [hardy] nautilus-sendto not compatible with bluetooth-sendto" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/197145
[08:39] <tjaalton> asac: yeah, built fine. now the same for nm-applet?-)
[08:42] <slangasek> asac:  dpkg-genchanges -S >../directory-administrator_1.7.1-1ubuntu1_source.changes
[08:42] <slangasek> dpkg-genchanges: not including original source code in upload
[08:43] <asac> hmm
[08:45] <asac> tjaalton: how hard is applet broken?
[08:48] <tjaalton> asac: I haven't tried to build it, but assumed it needs an update as well
[08:48] <asac> tjaalton: no i ment ... how broken is the applet in my ppa with the new NM?
[08:48] <asac> (i know that probably all the great new features are missing ... just curious if its enough to verify that NM at least works :))
[08:49] <pitti> cjwatson, evand: hm, on the current hardy daily desktop I get "the ext3 fs creation on /dev/sda1 failed"; yesterday I uploaded a new e2fsprogs, which might be the reason for that; however, /dev/sda1 does not even exist
[08:49] <tjaalton> asac: ok, I'l try it first
[08:49] <Fujitsu> Can we sync things from testing?
[08:50] <pitti> cjwatson, evand: I completely repartitioned the device, using 'New label'; does that need something like an udevtrigger?
[08:50] <pitti> hm, no, udevadm trigger doesn't help
[08:51] <asac> Fujitsu: a downgrade sync?
[08:51] <asac> :)
[08:51] <pitti> StevenK: NBS cleaned
[08:51] <Fujitsu> asac: No, a sync of a new upstream version, but there's a newer one that I don't want in sid.
[08:52] <slangasek> Fujitsu: I'm not sure what that would do when auto-syncing came back on after the release
[08:52] <slangasek> probably pull from unstable again
[08:52] <Fujitsu> slangasek: That's fine.
[08:53] <slangasek> I also suspect that a fake-sync is easier
[08:54] <Fujitsu> With a build1 version, or a faked .changes?
[08:55] <pitti> Fujitsu: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/scripts/syncpackage
[08:55] <Fujitsu> pitti: That's what I meant by faked .changes, yep.
[08:55] <pitti> Fujitsu: you can use that; please do check the generated .changes, though
[08:57] <tjaalton> asac: the old nm-applet snapshot fails to start: undefined symbol: nm_connection_settings_get_type
[08:58] <slangasek> bryyce: <ahem> how's that fix for the spontaneous intel video crashes coming along? :-)
[08:59] <Fujitsu> Spontaneous Intel video crashes?
[08:59] <Fujitsu> Mine's been more stable than ever over the past couple of weeks.
[08:59] <soren> I haven't had it crash on me for a while, too.
[08:59] <slangasek> I have a bug with mine that only showed up recently; just had the third crash in as many weeks
[09:00] <Fujitsu> Up until about 3 weeks ago, I had the occasional Compiz hang, but it's all good now.
[09:00] <bryyce> slangasek: it's still waiting on someone to do git bisecting.  Which of course is a PITA since the bug occurs so sporadically
[09:00] <slangasek> bah :/
[09:00] <bryyce> "X crashes randomly" bugs are the bane of my existence
[09:00] <soren> Oh, mine didn't just hang. It crashed. And X wouldn't start again.
[09:01] <Fujitsu> soren: Ah, I had those in the first couple of months of Hardy.
[09:01] <slangasek> soren: yes, that's what I have: "FatalError re-entered, aborting" -> "Existing errors found in hardware state"
[09:01] <pitti> cjwatson, evand: hm, after rebooting the desktop CD again, the new partitions appear in /dev and all is well; hmm
[09:03] <bryyce> slangasek: if it happens and you can ssh in and attach gdb and get a full backtrace, that may help.  However sounds like upstream is insisting on doing bisecting to find the issue.
[09:04] <slangasek> bryyce: but once it happens, the X server is dead, I would have to attach with gdb beforehand...?
[09:05] <slangasek> I've never done a git bisect before, can you give me a pointer to the right repo and a cheat sheet for running the bisect?
[09:06] <bryyce> if its crashing to the command line, yeah.  In other cases where it freezes or hangs, you can often ssh in to get a backtrace.
[09:06] <slangasek> yeah, this is the X server aborting altogether
[09:06] <slangasek> and only kinda-sorta crashing to the commandline, since it leaves the video in an unusable state which requires a reboot
[09:07] <bryyce> man git-bisect  has the best docs on it.  the repo can be checked out from gitweb.freedesktop.org
[09:07] <bryyce> hrm
[09:07] <tjaalton> might need some drm changes in the kernel too
[09:08] <slangasek> I'm git-stupid, giving me more explicit instructions on checking out would help
[09:11] <bryyce> slangasek: ok stay tuned, I'll see what I can come up with to make the process simpler.  Give me a couple days.
[09:11] <slangasek> ok, cheers
[09:12] <tjaalton> slangasek: if you have older kernels handy you could try booting -8 and see if it crashes the same way
[09:12] <slangasek> I don't
[09:12] <tjaalton> bummer
[09:13] <slangasek> to the extent that it correlates with any change on my system, though, it seems to correlate with me wiping out my old xorg.conf and regenerating a clean one
[09:13] <slangasek> OTOH, maybe I did that after it crashed the first time :-P
[09:18] <bryyce> well, some of the stuff we've fiddled with recently includes setting "greedy" migration mode for EXA, turning EXA on by default, and adding a few minor patches
[09:18] <tjaalton> we've had 2.2.1 for a month now
[09:18] <tjaalton> and EXA has been the default since November :)
[09:20] <bryyce> well, I mean in the sense that if he had an old xorg.conf that was setting XAA, then our EXA by default might have kicked in when he wiped out his old xorg.conf
[09:20] <tjaalton> yeah, sure
[09:29] <slangasek> bryyce: the old xorg.conf didn't set XAA explicitly; the only difference I can see is loading GLcore and v4l modules
[09:29] <bryyce> hmm, yeah none of that should matter
[09:36] <zdzichuBG> bryyce: textured video is still disabled?
[09:39] <\sh> moins
[09:40] <bryyce> zdzichuBG: I think it depends on the driver.  We're not forcing it to be disabled, so right now it's whatever upstream thinks best.
[09:40] <\sh> someone forgot to sync bug #205737 (wireshark 0.99.8) this morning or yesterday evening...could this be synced now?
[09:40] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 205737 in wireshark "[FFe] wireshark 0.99.8" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/205737
[09:41] <tjaalton> zdzichuBG, bryyce: it's disabled for intel because of the overlay patch
[09:41] <tjaalton> now it doesn't melt the CPU
[09:41] <bryyce> tjaalton: ah, what about -ati?
[09:42] <tjaalton> bryyce: I think support for textured video was recently added upstream
[09:47] <davmor2> evand: I've found a dodgy issue with Wubi.  Not sure how to report it though.  Basically it won't install on my windows box if the only cd drive is a cd-rw.  Once I put in my old dvd-rw it worked flawlessly.  How do you report that?
[09:55] <tjaalton> how do I finish a bzr merge after resolving a conflict?
[09:55] <lool> bzr commit
[09:55] <Mithrandir> bzr resolve then bzr commit
[09:55] <lool> (But do bzr resolve the conflicted files=
[09:56] <tjaalton> yes, bzr resolve done, commit next, thanks
[09:56] <seb128> siretart: could you add "x-content/video-dvd;x-content/video-vcd;x-content/video-svcd;" to gxine mimetype list if you get the update approval?
[09:56] <seb128> siretart: that's required to get it listed as a player for dvd and video cds in nautilus
[09:56] <siretart> I'll add that to the bugreprt. ok
[09:57] <seb128> siretart: if you don't I'll upload the change to hardy
[09:57] <seb128> siretart: I mean if you don't get the approval, because we want this change anyway ;-)
[09:57] <seb128> siretart: thanks!
[09:57] <siretart> seb128: well, you could do the upload anyawys, and I'll merge it for the update, if you prefer
[09:58] <seb128> siretart: ok, will do that then
[09:58] <seb128> siretart: so we are sure the change is there
[09:58] <seb128> siretart: looking at the diff you attached to the bug you likely want to add those to the new txt
[09:59] <siretart> 'new txt'?
[10:00] <seb128> siretart: mime.default, I was not sure of the name
[10:01] <seb128> slangasek: could you approve bug #204563? That likely makes sense since the ubuntu documentation recommends installing gxine for dvd playing we want it working correctly
[10:01] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 204563 in gxine "Update to gxine 0.5.901-1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/204563
[10:01] <seb128> that's universe thing though, not sure who is supposed to approve those
[10:03] <\sh> seb128: motu-realse :)
[10:03] <\sh> motu-release even
[10:03] <seb128> \sh: could you get them to approve the request?
[10:04] <siretart> seb128: ah, sure.
[10:04] <seb128> Hobbsee, TheMuso: ^
[10:04]  * TheMuso takes a peak.
[10:04] <seb128> TheMuso: thanks
[10:05] <\sh> seb128: motu-release is subscribed, so I think when scottk, hobbsee or sistpoty have time, they'll deal with it
[10:05] <seb128> \sh: trying to boost that, it's waiting for several days and we want to get it testing
[10:05] <seb128> that's the recommended ubuntu dvd playing software
[10:05] <seb128> not some random universe wishlist
[10:06] <\sh> siretart: is sistpoty on your area? :)
[10:06] <\sh> s/on/in/
[10:06] <seb128> how many approvals do you need?
[10:06] <seb128> TheMuso is looking at it now
[10:06] <\sh> seb128: 2 at least..after that siretart could upload
[10:07] <\sh> Hobbsee, ScottK: around?
[10:08]  * TheMuso approves.
[10:08] <\sh> seb128: could you do me a favour and sync wireshark 0.99.8 from sid (approval bug #205737)
[10:08] <TheMuso> Just need another MOTU release person to look at it.
[10:08] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 205737 in wireshark "[FFe] wireshark 0.99.8" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/205737
[10:08] <seb128> TheMuso: cool
[10:09] <\sh> I wonder where norsetto hides?
[10:09] <seb128> TheMuso: btw while you are around, are the lpi changes something we want for hardy, are they blocked on something? you didn't reply to the comments I think
[10:10] <TheMuso> seb128: I've been told they are wanted for hardy. I haven't replied because I've been working on it, and was actually going to reply to the emails that were sent. My updated changes are in the same branch as my original changes were found.
[10:10] <seb128> TheMuso: ok, excellent
[10:10] <ogra_cmpcng> seb128, do we plan to ship cheese in the default ?
[10:11] <seb128> ogra_cmpcng: no, there has been not demand for that, we don't have extra cd space and that's late for a such change, why?
[10:12] <ogra_cmpcng> i had complains from intel, the new classmate has a webcam built in and they apparently needed to run cheese as root to get it going (just installing it here, it works fine with ekiga)
[10:12] <seb128> \sh: synced
[10:12] <seb128> ogra_cmpcng: ask lool about it maybe, I think the mobile team is using it
[10:13] <\sh> seb128: rthx
[10:14] <ogra_cmpcng> seb128, works fine here out of the box, no idea what problems intel has ...
[10:15] <seb128> ogra_cmpcng: maybe the video group has not rights on the device or something
[10:15] <seb128> ogra_cmpcng: or their user is not in the group required
[10:16] <ogra_cmpcng> there is only ione user in the cmpc installer and that is in the video group by default (i installed this testmachine about 10min ago and use teh default user)
[10:16] <ogra_cmpcng> they must have done something wonky
[10:29] <\sh> siretart: you can upload gxine .. it's approved
[10:31] <siretart> \sh: after lunch. :)
[10:32] <\sh> siretart: ok :)
[10:53] <seb128> are non modified conffiles supposed to be removed automatically on upgrade if the package stop shipping those?
[10:53] <sjoerd> no
[10:54] <seb128> hum, suck
[10:54] <sjoerd> http://www.dpkg.org/dpkg/ConffileHandling :)
[10:54] <seb128> slomo_: ^ we need to make nautilus-cd-burner 2.22 remove mapping-modules.conf on upgrade
[10:55] <seb128> sjoerd: thanks
[10:55] <slomo_> hrm
[10:55] <slomo_> does it break something if it's still there?
[10:55] <seb128> slomo_: it displays ugly warning when starting an application using gnome-vfs
[10:56] <slomo_> great :)
[10:56] <seb128> slomo_: try sound-juicer
[10:56] <slomo_> i hate conffiles
[10:56] <seb128> sjoerd: and do you know if there is something special to do when moving conffiles between source and binary packages?
[10:56] <seb128> I guess there is
[10:57] <sjoerd> I think just the proper conflicts/replace rules, but i'm not sure
[10:57] <seb128> the capplets-data xrdb things have been moved to gnome-settings-daemon
[10:57] <\sh> damn...how do you script nowadays firefox to be placed at a special location on your screen...
[10:57] <seb128> ok, so that one is correct ;-)
[10:59] <tjaalton> how often are launchpad vcs-imports updated?
[10:59] <tjaalton> nm-applet is 11 days old, that's why I'm asking..
[10:59] <james_w> tjaalton: #launchpad should know better
[11:00] <tjaalton> james_w: k, I'll try ther
[11:00] <tjaalton> +e
[11:04] <\sh> does anyone has a clue to do for getting instanbul actually running? I mean it stops working directly when you want to start recording
[11:45] <Hobbsee> seb128: looks confirmed by now
[11:53] <seb128> Hobbsee: right, thanks
[11:54] <seb128> siretart: ok, you got the gxine approval, I didn't upload the changes since that was quick and there no point to upload things and then merge those to a new version
[11:55] <siretart> seb128: ok. will upload with your change merged in
[12:00] <seb128> siretart: thanks
[12:20] <jdstrand> hi pitti!
[12:21] <jdstrand> pitti: I don't know of a document about our policy on embedded code.  it's obviously discouraged generally, but..
[12:22] <jdstrand> pitti: there is embedded-code-copies from debian's 'secure-testing', and it's not listed there, so I'll update it
[12:29] <pitti> jdstrand: thank you
[12:29] <laga> slangasek: thanks for looking at the debiancd stuff. did you merge it?
[12:39] <soren> pitti: Oooh.. I just saw the usplash fsck thing for the first time. Neat.
[12:39] <pitti> soren: :)
[12:40] <pitti> soren: I just uploaded a fix-it-harder version of it three seconds ago
[12:40] <Fujitsu> usplash turns off for me just after initramfs :(
[12:40] <soren> pitti: Well, I didn't need to cancel it, so it worked as expected for me :)
[12:40] <laga> slangasek: yay, you did. thanks a lot.
[12:41] <laga> slangasek: oh, you did not. i need to wake up.
[12:41] <mjg59> pitti: #201037 - we probably need network module unloading/loading in pm-utils
[12:43] <ogra_cmpcng> mjg59, hey ... i got a new classmate here, having an issue with the brightness on resume ... do you know any way i can trigger a brightness up event on a i915 (works all fine but io have to hit a brightness key to get backlight after resume)
[12:43] <mjg59> ogra_cmpcng: Which kernel version?
[12:44] <ogra_cmpcng> yesterdays ... let me look for the exact version
[12:44] <ogra_cmpcng> 2.6.24-12-generic
[12:45] <mjg59> ogra_cmpcng: Ok. How are you suspending?
[12:45] <ogra_cmpcng> i dont use any intel xserver (using vesa to get the panning mode) though
[12:45] <mjg59> Ugh.
[12:45] <ogra_cmpcng> mjg59, gpm
[12:45] <mjg59> Please try with the intel x server
[12:45] <ogra_cmpcng> i cant
[12:45] <mjg59> Please try with the intel x server
[12:45] <ogra_cmpcng> i mean iu can for a test
[12:46] <ogra_cmpcng> but not constantly (no panning in intel, i810 which does panning eats half of my ram ...)
[12:48] <pitti> mjg59: ah, indeed; that should become a /etc/pm/sleep.d/ script, I suppose?
[12:49] <mjg59> pitti: /usr/share, ideally
[12:49] <pitti> ah, right
[12:52] <ogra_cmpcng> mjg59, ok, intel works, anything i can hack up to get vesa do the same ?
[12:58] <mjg59> ogra_cmpcng: Not really, no
[12:59] <ogra_cmpcng> hmm
[13:00] <ogra_cmpcng> how does gpm do the brightness switching without having a sysfs socket or anything in proc ... i only need a single trigger it seems ... that could well go into a pm utils hook
[13:00]  * ogra_cmpcng goes to look at gpm code
[13:00] <mjg59> ogra_cmpcng: Is there anything in /sys/class/backlight?
[13:00] <ogra_cmpcng> nope
[13:01] <mjg59> Then gpm shouldn't be able to do any brightness control
[13:01] <ogra_cmpcng> thats my prob else i'd just echo something to it :)
[13:01] <ogra_cmpcng> hmm
[13:01] <ogra_cmpcng> changing power changes backlight ... i wonder if thats bios based then
[13:02] <mjg59> Yes
[13:03] <ogra_cmpcng> vbetool vbestate save/restore seems to get me something but that seems way to hackish
[13:03] <mjg59> That should be happening by default in any case
[13:03] <mjg59> Oh, wait, it won't on i915
[13:03] <evand> davmor2: where does it fail?
[13:03] <mjg59> Hm. It sounds like the DRM code isn't restoring the backlight register.
[13:04] <mjg59> I'll try to find out about that
[13:04] <ogra_cmpcng> feel free to use me for tests if you have ideas :)
[13:25] <davmor2> evand: It gets to the end of creating image then pops up a message saying "unable to access cd"
[13:26] <asac> slangasek: on bug 194459 - the themes package should go imo.
[13:26] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 194459 in firefox-themes-ubuntu "FTBFS in latest archive rebuild test" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194459
[13:26] <davmor2> evand: now though it gets past that point no problems and carries on the the first restart now prompt and then carries on installing.
[13:26] <asac> slangasek: what does "classic chrome theme" mean in your words?
[13:27] <evand> davmor2: is this drive otherwise reliable?
[13:28] <davmor2> evand: It's the one I've done all the installs on for the last 6 months with no issues.  However like I say once I installed the dvd-rw all the issues went away I've installed 2 versions of Wubi since without issue, where as with the one drive in it would install any.
[13:29] <davmor2> s/would/wouldn't
[13:30] <evand> davmor2: hrm, there should be a Wubi-revXXX.log file in %TEMP%.  Can you attach that to a new bug report against the Wubi project, the description you gave me, and any additional information you can provide?
[13:31] <evand> you'll probably want to delete the version that's there first, then run it again with the offending drive.
[13:32] <evand> the version of the log, that is
[13:32] <davmor2> evand: I'll need to strip the machine of a drive but it shouldn't be an issue but I'll have to do it again latter.  (mind you I haven't tried wubi in the old drive since I installed the new one so I'll try that first)
[13:34] <davmor2> evand:  Also out of curiosity why doesn't wubi include M-A?  It seems odd that installing in a windows environment and then have to manually do your bookmarks etc.
[13:34] <evand> ok, thanks
[13:35] <evand> davmor2: it does, but there are likely bugs in m-a.
[13:35] <evand> it doesn't pull in any folders though.
[13:36] <davmor2> evand: it didn't pull anything at all no email no bookmarks nothing.
[13:36] <evand> hrm, I'll take a look at that today
[13:41] <davmor2> evand: no probs this is the cd a day before beta if you want I can update to yesterdays and try again if it's an issue you have remedied in M-A
[13:43] <evand> nope, that shouldn't be necessary -- I don't believe it would have been remedied by any uploads I've made since then.
[13:45] <davmor2> evand: no probs I'll try wubi from my old cd-rw and see if the issue still exists and if not I will remove the dvd-rw and try again and post the log file etc to a new bug for you.  Would it help to have a copy of lshw/lspci too
[13:46] <evand> davmor2: it can't hurt.  It might help finding duplicates, should we start to get reports of similar issues.
[13:47] <davmor2> evand: np's I'll do that latter though I got to go off for bit.
[13:47] <evand> ok, thanks
[13:49] <jdstrand> evand: hi!
[13:49] <jdstrand> evand: can you take a look at bug #206030
[13:49] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 206030 in ubuntu "cannot activate ufw in live mode" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/206030
[13:50] <jdstrand> evand: I was asked to bring this to your attention since colin is away
[13:52] <davmor2> evand: Wubi crashed out at the same point I'll get the log files in a report asap
[13:53] <evand> jdstrand: looking now
[13:53] <evand> davmor2: yikes, thanks
[13:54] <jdstrand> evand: the reporter is obviously talking about it in reference to ufw, but the problem is obviously that '/' is world writable on the live cd
[13:54] <jdstrand> (can I say obviously more?)
[13:55] <jdstrand> (obviously so...)
[13:56] <davmor2> jdstrand: don't you need to reboot to get ufw up?
[13:56] <jdstrand> davmor2: shouldn't
[13:56] <jdstrand> davmor2: 'sudo ufw enable'
[13:57] <davmor2> jdstrand: yes then it tells you that it will be enabled the next time you restart
[13:57] <jdstrand> davmor2: it is disabled by default
[13:57] <jdstrand> davmor2:
[13:57] <jdstrand> $ sudo ufw enable
[13:57] <jdstrand> Firewall started and enabled on system startup
[13:58] <jdstrand> $ sudo ufw status
[13:58] <jdstrand> Firewall loaded
[13:58] <davmor2> our right me reading it wrong sorry
[14:00] <cody-somerville> slangasek, the daily builds for Xubuntu are frozen, right?
[14:08] <jdstrand> pitti: do you have any test scripts for cups? (I am preparing a security update)
[14:08] <jdstrand> pitti: didn't see anything in qa-regression-testing and didn't know if you had even something hacky laying around
[14:09] <ogra_cmpcng> wow, camporama seem not to work with anything here, telling me it cant access /dev/video0 ... i wonder why cheese works fine
[14:09] <ogra_cmpcng> *camorama
[14:09] <ogra_cmpcng> not even running it as root helps ... weird
[14:24] <Laney> Hmm, why is bash-completion no longer installed by default in Hardy?
[14:32] <pitti> jdstrand: I just recently fixed the upstream test suite to work at all
[14:33] <pitti> jdstrand: did you see my patch sent to security@ubuntu/debian?
[14:33] <pitti> jdstrand: otherwise my usual test is just to detect and configure a printer, print something, and check browsing/exporting
[14:39] <_MMA_> SANE in Hardy is 1.0.19 correct?
[14:40] <jdstrand> pitti: ok (yes I saw your email-- thanks!)
[14:41] <tseliot> _MMA: yes, it's Version: 1.0.19-1ubuntu2
[14:41] <_MMA_> Thnx
[14:57] <davmor2> evand: bug 207137 I will update with lshw/lspci once ubuntu finishes installing on the system.
[14:57] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 207137 in wubi "Wubi fails to install from my cd-rw but does from my dvd-rw" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/207137
[15:02] <evand> thanks, do note that ago has already commented on the bug.
[15:27] <pitti> slangasek: WDYT about bug 196021? this drives me up the wall, too, and I agree that it is a regression, so I'd like to add back bash-completion to ubuntu-standard recommends
[15:27] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 196021 in ubuntu-meta "include bash-completion by default in hardy" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/196021
[15:28] <ogra_cmpc> pitti, i think colin already agreed on that in a recent platform meeting ... we had that topic some time in the recent past
[15:28] <pitti> ah, fine
[15:31] <tjaalton> ubuntu-desktop no longer Recommends oo.o but calc/writer/impress. I guess this was intentional?
[15:32] <tjaalton> for instance oo.o-java-common is not installed due to that
[15:36] <mario_limonciell> slangasek, yes we need gawk on the DVD
[15:36] <mario_limonciell> slangasek, so if you can add that back for the next time it's generated, that would be most appreciated
[15:37]  * dtrask is away: Lunch time...leave a msg
[15:47]  * \sh wonders how the kernel sound stuff determines the name of a sound device...most C-media usb headsets are defaulting to "default" as name...
[15:49] <\sh> crimsun: btw...I just got pulseaudio+flash to work..strange phenomenon is: you have to set the default output for the flash playback stream to the usb headset via padevchooser/volume manager after that it remembers this setting and works without problems
[15:49] <broonie> \sh: It's propagated up from the driver.
[15:49] <broonie> \sh: Though user space doesn't generally look *directly* at the kernel output.
[15:52] <\sh> broonie: hmm...
[15:52] <broonie> You can see the kernel idea in /proc/asound/cards
[15:58] <\sh> broonie: which means: id + name ... i wonder what happens when two of the very same sound devices are attached and both have the same names attached to it...
[15:58] <\sh> asoundconf is not very friendly for this case ;)
[15:58] <\sh> what I'm trying now is to determine the right setting to capture sound for recordmydesktop...
[16:00] <\sh> what setting is the right one to tell rmd that he should use pulseaudio ;)
[16:05] <seb128> mdke: is anything in the ubuntu documentation mentioning gnome-cd or cddb-slave2-properties? because we want to drop those
[16:15] <pitti> Riddell: can you replicate bug 206169? (The "Decoding unicode is not supported" thingy)
[16:15] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 206169 in jockey "Jockey does not install anything, help button does nothing" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/206169
[16:18] <slangasek> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mythbuntu/debian-cd/mythbuntu-debiancd
[16:18] <laga> slangasek: yeah?
[16:19] <slangasek> laga: right, looking at it now ;)
[16:23] <slangasek> asac: "classic chrome theme" are my words, aren't they? :-)  It means that firefox-themes-ubuntu needs to be able to find classic.jar for unpacking...
[16:24] <Riddell> pitti: I don't have any hardware to test it on
[16:24] <asac> slangasek: ah. ok thought you referred to some kind of special theme (like the old ffox 2 theme)
[16:24] <asac> slangasek: the package should be dropped
[16:24] <Riddell> the help button does nothing indeed
[16:24] <asac> we don't need that anymore. firefox already uses system theme
[16:24] <asac> slangasek: i can upload with depends on firefox-2 though (thought i already did that though)
[16:25]  * dtrask-away is away: I'm back!
[16:25]  * dtrask-away is back.
[16:25] <\sh> pitti: when I set asoundconf set-pulse...all alsa capable apps should use PA via alsa backend, right?
[16:26] <slangasek> laga: mythbuntu changes pushed
[16:26] <laga> slangasek: thanks
[16:26] <ogra_cmpc> \sh, yes if you point them to use alsa
[16:27] <\sh> ogra_cmpc: recordmydesktop uses hw:0,0 as default..I wonder if this is correct...
[16:27] <ogra_cmpc> unlikely
[16:28] <\sh> so what setting could it be?
[16:28] <ogra_cmpc> look in the selector of the volume control ... it should tell you what to use
[16:29] <slangasek> cody-somerville: yes, Xubuntu daily builds are frozen...
[16:29] <cody-somerville> slangasek, thanks
[16:29] <\sh> ogra_cmpc: front:2 ?
[16:30] <cody-somerville> slangasek, testing seems to be picking up for those two images. I imagine we'll be able to make the release by Friday at the latest.
[16:30] <pitti> \sh: no idea what that does, sorry
[16:30] <cody-somerville> slangasek, If not, we'll just forget about it
[16:32] <\sh> ogra_cmpc: well, it tells me that it's front:2 but somehow it doesn't work..let's see if I can redirect all sound to front:0
[16:33] <slangasek> pitti: I've never been a heavy bash-completion user, so I don't have a strong opinion... I remember cjwatson being opposed to it though
[16:35] <slangasek> asac: why is it that it should be dropped, then?  is the existing firefox theme already ubuntuized...?
[16:36] <slangasek> ah, so you said, ok
[16:36] <asac> slangasek: you don't use firefox 3?
[16:36] <seb128> mario_limonciell: do you really care about having the mythv totem plugin in the default installation?
[16:37] <asac> slangasek: anyway ... i upload now (for firefox-2)
[16:37] <seb128> that things add a depends on the mysqlclient lib
[16:37] <slangasek> asac: a) no, b) I probably wouldn't know the difference between the themes anyway since when I do use it I only use it from the packages :)
[16:37] <slangasek> asac: ok, thanks for the upload then :)
[16:37] <asac> slangasek: ok its up. if its still in main feel free to demote it
[16:37] <slangasek> ok, will do
[16:37] <seb128> which is around 4meg CD space
[16:38]  * seb128 considers doing a totem-plugins-extra and move that out of the space to win some megabytes
[16:38] <seb128> s/space/cd
[16:39] <mario_limonciell> seb128, that's fine with me
[16:40] <seb128> ok
[16:40] <mario_limonciell> space on that disk is more important imo
[16:40] <seb128> slangasek: ^ will give you 5 extra megas on the desktop cd
[16:40]  * slangasek bounces up and down gleefully
[16:40] <slangasek> :)
[16:41] <seb128> ;-)
[16:42] <mario_limonciell> slangasek, so re bash-completion it was a chosen decision to remove it, not accidental then?
[16:43] <slangasek> mario_limonciell: I don't know; doko's the person to ask
[16:44] <slangasek> oh very nice, I notice my panel clock is displaying UTC after the last reboot... so I click on it to change it, the panel crashes and respawns with the right time
[16:44] <slangasek> :P
[16:44] <ScottK2> Feature: Enhanced automation.
[16:44] <mario_limonciell> that reminds me i wanted to ask doko about bug 103929 too.
[16:44] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 103929 in bash "Bash prompt string looks for xterm-color, gnome terminal identifies as xterm" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/103929
[16:45] <mario_limonciell> been in progress since sept or so :)
[16:45] <Ng> while we're asking about bash bugs, why is our PROMPT_COMMAND stuff commented out? :)
[16:47] <slangasek> mario_limonciell: hmm, so I can't actually see where gawk was being included on the DVD image before
[16:47] <mario_limonciell> slangasek, yeah I didn't either.  was it a fluke that it was somehow coming as a recommends to gawk-doc or somethign?
[16:47] <slangasek> gawk isn't seeded directly anywhere, nor was it before the addition of the dvd seed; and it's only a build-dep of various packages
[16:48] <slangasek> gawk-doc doesn't recommend it either, I looked for that
[16:48] <slangasek> but obviously it makes no sense to ship gawk-doc on there *without* gawk...
[16:48] <mario_limonciell> :)
[16:49] <mario_limonciell> Is quilt still on the disk?  It was coming before to satisfy <awk> for a quilt depend I thought
[16:50] <slangasek> er, there's really no reason it should've done that, awk is part of essential and should always be satisfied by mawk long before gawk is looked at
[16:50] <slangasek> sorry, awk is "virtually essential" - it's a virtual package, depended on by base-files
[16:52] <slangasek> pitti: is elisa still on your radar, btw?
[16:54] <laga> bah, use mythtv ;)
[16:54] <mario_limonciell> slangasek, take a look at http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/ubuntu/hardy/dvd-20080318.log
[16:54] <mario_limonciell> "* Chose gawk out of awk to satisfy quilt"
[16:54] <pitti> slangasek: what's still wrong with it?
[16:55] <slangasek> mario_limonciell: yep, a peek at the gutsy seed shows it being pulled into main via quilt - because quilt used to depend explicitly on gawk
[16:55] <pitti> slangasek: it's gone from http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/hardy_probs.html since yesterday
[16:55] <slangasek> pitti: oh, ok :)
[16:55] <slangasek> pitti: I was just looking at the CD report, which obviously lags
[16:55] <pitti> slangasek: ah, if you mean today's DVD report, it's probably just lagging behind
[16:55] <pitti> :)
[16:56] <slangasek> mario_limonciell: so the question is... what pulled in quilt?
[16:57] <slangasek> pitti: is there anything different about "supported" that would have caused build-dependencies to also be pulled onto the DVDs?
[16:57] <mario_limonciell> installer dependencies it claims?  So maybe one of the udebs that lived in ubiquity
[16:57] <slangasek> er?
[16:58] <mario_limonciell> but then again that is a lot of -dev packages that were pulled.  you're right that it was probably build depends doing it
[16:58] <pitti> slangasek: not that I know of
[16:58] <slangasek> well, I don't think it's a loss to have build-depends off of there in general
[17:14] <tsmithe> lamont, the rebuild of pdftk failed with an ICE in the same place
[17:14] <tsmithe> (on hppa)
[17:15] <lamont> unsurprising
[17:16] <lamont> steps are (1) find someone to fix  java/hppa. (2) profit
[17:16] <lamont> I'm still stuck on #1
[17:16] <ogra_cmpc> you dont look close enough
[17:17] <ogra_cmpc> (given that hppa devs are rare you likely have to look *very* close)
[17:19] <doko> mario_limonciell, slangasek: thing is that bash-completion is unmaintained for about two years by upstream; however last week I was sent the upstream repository, and now somebody is trying to set up a project ib alioth to coordinate new upstream work. I'lll look to get it included on the CD without depending on it (just seeding it).
[17:20] <doko> tsmithe, lamont: the pdftk build system should be rewritten
[17:20] <tsmithe> doko, uhuh, but would that fix the ICE?
[17:22] <ogra_cmpc> doko, thats like saying hppa should be re-soldered :P
[17:23] <doko> tsmithe: I think so; just compile the code to byte code, and then, if needed, from byte-code to native code. the direct compilation from source to native is known to have problems
[17:24] <doko> ogra_cmpc: not really, after you look at pdftk's build system
[17:24] <ogra_cmpc> yeah was rather bad joking ...
[17:57] <zul> can I get a giveback for nut?
[18:01]  * Seveas gives zul a packet of peanuts
[18:05] <zul> seb128: hi can you give back nut? thanks
[18:07] <pitti> zul: he can't, but I can; done
[18:07] <zul> pitti: thanks..
[18:07] <pitti> zul: erm, wait
[18:07] <pitti> zul: first, nothing to give back; it hasn't started to build yet
[18:07] <pitti> zul: second, the most current version is 2.2.1-2.1ubuntu4~ppa1
[18:07] <pitti> that might have been a wrong upload?
[18:07] <zul> pitti: ah can you reject that one then
[18:07] <zul> yes it was
[18:08] <pitti> no, uploads can't be rejected unless a distro is frozen
[18:08] <pitti> you have to supersede it with a newer upload
[18:08] <zul> ok
[18:11] <slangasek> seb128: does bug #203956 get resolved if we nuke shares-admin?
[18:11] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 203956 in gnome-system-tools "Sharing the 'public' folder causes buggy behaviour " [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/203956
[18:12] <slangasek> (references policykit, which isn't involved with net usershare)
[18:17] <seb128> slangasek: yes
[18:21] <slangasek> seb128: should I assign it to you?  or to me, maybe?
[18:23] <ScottK2> I know which one of those I would vote for if I was seb128.
[18:25] <seb128> slangasek: assign it to me if you want, I'll close it when I remove shares-admin from gnome-system-tools later today or tomorrow
[18:25] <slangasek> ok
[18:33] <bryce> whoa, it's snowing.  snow in March in Oregon?
[18:34] <Spads> We had snow on Easter in London.
[18:35] <LaserJock> bryce: when did that start?
[18:35] <slangasek> bryce: not here, just rain
[18:35] <slangasek> though I got hailed on earlier in March
[18:35] <bryce> couple minutes ago
[18:36] <bryce> it's sort of rainy snow, not sticking of course
[18:36] <LaserJock> bryce: it's just windy down here, but it might rain/snow soon
[18:37] <slangasek> oh, LaserJock is part of the Oregon cabal too?
[18:38] <LaserJock> no, I'm south
[18:38] <LaserJock> in Reno
[18:38] <slangasek> oh :)
[18:38] <LaserJock> but the weather is similar-ish
[18:40] <bryce> wow, now it's normal snow, with big huge flakes
[18:40] <bryce> yes I'm easily amused
[18:41] <_MMA_> Atlanta got flurries a couple of days ago. Nuts.
[18:42] <saivann> mjg59: May-I abuse of your knowledge and ask for your opinion on what viable solution can be used for bug 188764?
[18:42] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 188764 in usplash "[hardy]640x480 usplash on a 1024x768 LCD laptop" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/188764
[18:42] <stgraber> here we got something like 40cm of snow on Friday and like 10cm yesterday morning
[18:43] <LaserJock> other than the use of cm, that's impressive! ;-)
[18:44] <mjg59> saivann: I have no sensible solution to this off-hand, other than doing DDC probing in usplas
[18:44] <mjg59> h
[18:44] <mjg59> But no, the postinst can't depend on a running X. For a start, it's running as root and not the X user
[18:45] <saivann> mjg59 : Is that a possible solution for Hardy? Or time is missing
[18:45] <saivann> mjg59 : I was not really convinced by this idea too
[18:45] <mjg59> saivann: The alternative is for ubiquity to write the values
[18:46] <saivann> mjg59 : I'm not a developer but I have a basic knowledge with packaging, may I help on this task?
[18:47] <_MMA_> mjg59: Which wouldn't help in Alt disk installations. :(
[18:47] <saivann> mjg59 : ubiquity, would means that good usplash resolution would only be set in the LiveCD
[18:47] <mjg59> Yes, it would mean that
[18:47] <cody-somerville> There is an Xubuntu community meeting taking place in #ubuntu-meeting in roughly 15 minutes. If you're interested in getting involved in Xubuntu or are interested in the future direction of the project, please feel free to join us. For background information, please see: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2008-March/005242.html
[18:48] <mjg59> saivann: No, if DDC stuff is being done then it should be integrated into usplash directly
[18:48] <mjg59> So it can check resolution at runtime
[18:48] <slangasek> stgraber: but er, don't you live in the mountains? :)
[18:49] <saivann> mjg59 : Since you know usplash very well, do you think that you can take this task? It would also fix bug 158048
[18:49] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 158048 in usplash "Automatic usplash resolution (no static configuration file)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/158048
[18:50] <mjg59> saivann: Potentially, but I can't promise it
[18:50] <mjg59> slangasek: What do you think?
[18:50] <_MMA_> I'd personally pay someone to fix Usplash on widescreen resolutions.
[18:50] <mjg59> _MMA_: Impossible
[18:50] <_MMA_> :P
[18:50] <mjg59> VESA doesn't include widescreen modes
[18:51] <mjg59> Once we have kernel modesetting, sure
[18:51] <saivann> mjg59 : of course, thanks. Can I do something else to help that bug report?
[18:51] <stgraber> slangasek: switzerland is not only made of mountains you know :)
[18:51] <mjg59> saivann: Not really, other tan to point out that the proposed solution won't work :)
[18:51] <slangasek> mjg59: what do I think in reference to usplash?
[18:51] <saivann> mjg59 : Thanks :)
[18:51] <slangasek> stgraber: s/mountains/higher elevation/ ;)
[18:51] <mjg59> slangasek: In reference to #188764
[18:52] <stgraber> slangasek: well, 500m is not that high from my point of view :)
[18:52] <LaserJock> has anybody screen been going weird the last couple days while hibernating and resuming?
[18:52] <LaserJock> mine turned neon green
[18:52] <LaserJock> and I don't get any more usplash
[18:52] <mjg59> LaserJock: There's a proposed patch to fix that
[18:53] <LaserJock> mjg59: ok, just wondered if it was me
[18:53] <slangasek> asac: bug #201127 is just removing the .desktop file, right?
[18:53] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 201127 in network-manager "(Hardy) please remove Network Manager Editor from Internet and Preferences" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/201127
[18:53] <slangasek> mjg59: I think that I should let you tell me what I should think
[18:54] <saivann> mjg59 : Wait, can-we simply ddcprobe in the postinst?
[18:54] <mjg59> saivann: Not safely, since X is running
[18:54] <saivann> mjg59 : Ah ok
[18:54] <slangasek> stgraber: yes, my elevation here is 60m. :)
[19:06] <mjg59> saivann: Actually, no, ddcprobe is a bad idea. Most laptops don't do DDC.
[19:06] <saivann> mjg59 : ok
[19:07] <saivann> mjg59 : Anyway, thanks for your work on this :)
[19:07] <mjg59> saivann: Without the knowledge X has, I don't think there's anything we can do to fix this
[19:07] <mjg59> saivann: So the closest to a solution right now will still be writing the file from ubiquity
[19:08] <saivann> mjg59 : There is no way to fix usplash to discover automatically the good resolution to use?
[19:08] <saivann> mjg59 : Not the package but usplash itself
[19:09] <mjg59> saivann: No. We can't use DDC.
[19:09] <saivann> mjg59 : owh.. that sounds bad..
[19:09] <mjg59> In the future, when we have kernel modesetting, yes
[19:10] <saivann> mjg59 : From now on, should I set back status to confirmed in ubiquity, IYO?
[19:11] <mjg59> saivann: Sure
[19:15] <saivann> mjg59 : Do you think that subscribing the ubuntu install team would be a good idea?
[19:34] <evand> saivann: the install team is the bug contact for ubiquity, so there's no need.
[19:34] <saivann> evand : Thanks for the confirmation
[19:40] <Kopfgeldjaeger> @ufw-developers: couldn't you extend the "simple syntax"? to make "ufw allow port 23", too. so that the options are just set to "any" by default
[19:40] <Kopfgeldjaeger> +"work"
[19:41] <jdstrand> Kopfgeldjaeger: can you give an example?
[19:41] <jdstrand> (of any)
[19:43] <Kopfgeldjaeger> at the moment, ufw allow 23/tcp is the same as ufw allow proto tcp from any to any port 23 (or so)
[19:43] <Kopfgeldjaeger> you should be able to do the same with "ufw allow port 23/tcp", or "ufw allow port 23/tcp from 192.168.0.1"
[19:44] <emgent> kirkland: ping
[19:44] <emgent> s/kirkland/kiko/
[19:44] <Kopfgeldjaeger> so that the values for "from","to" etc. are set to any by default and you can use ufw in more ways
[19:45] <jdstrand> Kopfgeldjaeger: well, the 'ufw allow port 23', isn't more ways-- just more typing
[19:45] <kirkland> emgent: pong
[19:45] <jdstrand> Kopfgeldjaeger: the other was done initially, but it made the parser much more complex
[19:45] <Kopfgeldjaeger> yeah, that's what i mean
[19:46] <jdstrand> Kopfgeldjaeger: changes like this would have to be after hardy
[19:46] <jdstrand> Kopfgeldjaeger: can you file a bug report against ufw, with examples and mark as wishlist?
[19:46] <Kopfgeldjaeger> sure
[19:47] <jdstrand> Kopfgeldjaeger: thanks! :)
[19:47] <Kopfgeldjaeger> np ;)
[19:47] <Kopfgeldjaeger> against the package ufw or the project ufw?
[19:47] <jdstrand> Kopfgeldjaeger: either is fine-- I get mail from both
[19:47] <Kopfgeldjaeger> ok
[20:20] <Kopfgeldjaeger> jdstrand: is it okay? ;)
[20:40] <alex-weej> seb128: is human-murrine definitely getting kicked out of the default config? i ran the hardy beta on my housemate's macbook yesterday and realised it actually looks really nice :(
[20:40] <alex-weej> and if so, is that not a UI freeze break? :P
[20:40] <alex-weej> and if not, i need to fix the tooltip bug!
[20:42] <seb128> alex-weej: ubuntulooks will be used for hardy yes, it looks better
[20:42] <alex-weej> has the change already gone in?
[20:42] <seb128> alex-weej: the new theme have some issues and the scrollbar, etc don't look as good I think
[20:42] <alex-weej> ok fair enough
[20:42] <seb128> alex-weej: I don't think so no
[20:42] <alex-weej> as long as it is definitely happening
[20:43] <seb128> that's what scott said at the desktop team meeting some days ago
[20:43] <alex-weej> i don't want Hardy to ship with murrine and broken tooltips :)
[20:43] <seb128> right
[20:46] <mdke> seb128: I don't know offhand, can you describe exactly what they do? Maybe they are described in the gnome user-guide
[20:49] <seb128> mdke: gnome-cd is a gnome cd player as its name indicates, enter gnome-cd on a command line to get it
[20:49] <seb128> mdke: it's not in the menu, not started by default and sound-juicer and rhythmbox read cds without any issue
[20:50] <mdke> seb128: ok, I've checked. Neither are referred to in the ubuntu specific documentation. I don't see anything obvious in the gnome user guide either, so I don't see any documentation problem with dropping them
[20:51] <seb128> mdke: ok, good, thanks
[20:51] <seb128> mdke: I'm asking to make sure but we didn't use it for a while and redhat and some other distros already stopped shipping it since we have better cd playing softwares now
[20:51] <seb128> it's still available in the source package and can be built easily though ;-)
[20:52] <mdke> yep
[21:30] <Fujitsu> Should I really be able to completely stop X responding by debdiffing something sufficiently large on a LUKS-encrypted  disk?
[21:31] <\sh> Fujitsu: depends on your IO? :)
[21:32] <\sh> Fujitsu: I'm getting it every time, when I start three or more sbuilds with large source files...my controller <-> mainboard combination doesn't like so much IO load and X stops responding
[21:33] <Fujitsu> \sh: I can generally only do one before it dies.
[21:33] <Fujitsu> The CPU is mostly in IOWAIT, so it can't be the limiting factor.
[21:34] <\sh> Fujitsu: without the encryption does it work then?
[21:34] <Fujitsu> \sh: I haven't tried for about a year without encryption.
[21:34] <Fujitsu> In Gutsy I didn't have this problem.
[21:34] <soren> Fujitsu: How do you see that the CPU is mostly in IOWAIT?
[21:35] <Fujitsu> soren: multiload-applet
[21:35] <\sh> Fujitsu: try iostat
[21:35] <Fujitsu> It does freeze after a while, but before it dies I can see the load shooting up, and the IOWAIT colour filling the CPU box.
[21:35] <soren> Fujitsu: apt-cache doesn't know anything about that?
[21:36] <Fujitsu> soren: It's the GNOME panel system monitor applet.
[21:36] <Fujitsu> Installed by default, I believe.
[21:36] <soren> Fujitsu: Ah.
[21:36] <jdong> what's up with Ubuntu and unionfs vs aufs?
[21:37] <jdong> I know our livecds use unionfs
[21:37] <jdong> but everyone in $blogworld says that aufs is better?
[21:37] <\sh> Fujitsu: the system monitor ?
[21:37] <Fujitsu> \sh: That's it.
[21:38] <\sh> Fujitsu: hmmm...I don't see iowait counters...not even in the preferences
[21:39] <Fujitsu> \sh: It's the system monitor applet, not gnome-system-monitor.
[21:39] <Fujitsu> iowait is represented by a very dark blue on the CPU box.
[21:40] <\sh> na now it's light green ;)
[21:41] <\sh> Fujitsu: so your dark blue graph goes up?
[21:41] <Fujitsu> \sh: It's not dark blue for me either, but yes.
[21:44] <\sh> fun part: iostat doesn't show any iowait stats with rt kernel
[21:45] <ogra_cmpc> jdong, that might actually be but is nothing for hardy
[21:45] <ogra_cmpc> most of the tools like casper etc have aufs support but dont enable/use it by default
[21:47] <\sh> Fujitsu: I'll do some tests tomorrow morning in the company.../me needs to hit the bed now.
[21:48] <Fujitsu> \sh: Night.
[21:48] <\sh> cu tomorrow
[21:52] <mjg59> ogra_cmpc: Hm. Intel have a couple of ideas about the backlight - I may have some kernel patches for you tomorrow
[21:53] <ogra_cmpc> mjg59, yay !
[21:53] <ogra_cmpc> you rock
[21:53] <ogra_cmpc> :)
[21:58]  * ogra_cmpc wants a --no-progress option in mksquashfs ... damned ... 
[21:58] <ogra_cmpc> makes every log unreadable
[21:59] <slangasek> --republican-health-care?
[21:59] <ogra_cmpc> heh
[22:00] <ogra_cmpc> we use it in so many places that get logged, i wonder why nobody patched it yet
[22:00] <slangasek> I never thought about it until you mentioned :)
[22:03] <ion_> When might cjwa-tson return?
[22:04] <mario_limonciell> ogra_cmpc, perhaps 1>&3 or something so that it's not showing any output
[22:04] <ogra_cmpc> ion_, next week
[22:04] <ion_> ogra: Thanks
[22:04] <ogra_cmpc> mario_limonciell, i actually want the rest of the output
[22:04] <mario_limonciell> oh
[22:05] <mjg59> ogra_cmpc: BTW, using -vesa will decrease battery life
[22:05] <ogra_cmpc> just not the progressbar that makes it impossible to read it in a pager like less
[22:06] <ogra_cmpc> mjg59, it frees up about 40M of ram
[22:06] <mjg59> No framebuffer compression, no clock gating, chip ends up doing much more work
[22:06] <ogra_cmpc> vesa vs i810
[22:06] <mjg59> ogra_cmpc: Disabling gl in -i810 should free up most of that
[22:06] <ogra_cmpc> hmm
[22:06] <mjg59> It'll allocate much more RAM in order to have back buffers and so on
[22:06] <ogra_cmpc> you mean patch it ?
[22:07] <mjg59> But -i810 isn't going to be much better than -vesa from a power point of view
[22:07] <ogra_cmpc> performance is actually not much different between the two
[22:07] <ogra_cmpc> not even with video playback
[22:08] <ogra_cmpc> or flash
[22:08] <mjg59> Wurgh. Having an overlay enging will make a huge difference if you scale anything
[22:08] <mjg59> Flash will be much the same speed on everything, yes
[22:08] <ogra_cmpc> where should i scale to ? i have 800x480 ....
[22:09] <ogra_cmpc> thats either maximized/fullscreen or not ...
[22:15] <mjg59> ogra_cmpc: Anything other than the native size of the video
[22:16] <ogra_cmpc> right, but the difference will be rather small on that screensize ...
[22:16] <ogra_cmpc> do you think setting DRI to false in xorg.conf is sufficient to get rid of gl in ram ?
[22:19] <ogra_cmpc> patching the driver would mean i need to put it in a ppa ... not really what i want
[22:29] <crimsun> \sh_away: not a bug, but certainly counterintuitive.  Do you have suggestions for exposing the selection in a different fashion?
[22:54] <ogra_cmpc> mjg59, did i say that you rule already ? Option DRI false gains me 50M with i810 :D
[22:54] <ogra_cmpc> ending up with 3M more free ram than with vesa actually
[22:55] <mjg59> ogra_cmpc: Ha
[22:56] <mjg59> ogra_cmpc: How about the backlight? (not optimistic, but always possible)
[22:56] <TheMuso> 5~/c
[22:56] <ogra_cmpc> i'll try
[22:57] <ogra_cmpc> nope, still needs a poke with the brightness key
[22:57] <Fujitsu> Do I blame -ati if I don't get correct resolution detection using it?
[22:58] <tjaalton> Fujitsu: yes
[22:59] <tjaalton> Fujitsu: generally so
[22:59] <Fujitsu> tjaalton: THanks.
[23:02] <Fujitsu> tjaalton: Do I want to include the output of get-edid or similar?
[23:03] <tjaalton> Fujitsu: that would be nice, and the logfile
[23:03] <Fujitsu> tjaalton: Will do.
[23:15] <asac> slangasek: yes.
[23:15] <asac> slangasek: its just .desktop file from what i can see
[23:15] <asac> (or better from what i remember)
[23:21] <slangasek> asac: ok, proposed patch in the bug; I could upload that if you like
[23:22] <asac> slangasek: i can do tht tomorrow ... when uploading the ap_scan branch
[23:22] <asac> i hoped for more feedback, but i think its now going up
[23:24] <neutrinomass> At the risk of being slightly offtopic, will ubuntu participate in this year's SoC ?
[23:24] <mjg59> No
[23:24]  * asac off for bed
[23:25] <neutrinomass> Ok, thanks
[23:25] <slangasek> asac: ok then; I just figured that since they're separate source packages, some parallelization might be in order :)
[23:25] <slangasek> asac: 'night!
[23:26] <ogra_cmpc> hmm
[23:26] <asac> slangasek: oh right ... its applet. feel free to go ahead then (if you remember to update the bzr branch)
[23:26] <asac> thanks and night
[23:29] <ogra_cmpc> isnt visudo supposed to use $EDITOR or the editor alternative ?
[23:31] <ogra_cmpc> ah, no its explicitly now
[23:31] <ogra_cmpc> s/now/not/