[00:09] <nixternal> these kde4 wrapper scripts only work when they want to it seems
[00:15] <Riddell> nixternal: wrapper scripts? we havn't used them for months
[00:16] <nixternal> hrmm
[00:17]  * Riddell snoozes
[00:17] <nixternal> ahhhahhhfdajfd00....woot that fixes it, removing that wrapper script
[00:17] <nixternal> nite Riddell
[00:22] <Riddell> Czessi: ahem
[00:27] <Jucato> Riddell: we're ban-forwarding him
[00:27] <Jucato> you can too :)
[01:16] <nixternal> gotta love the freedesktop.org spec for desktop files
[01:16] <nixternal> it tells you that certain things have been deprecated and that's it
[01:17] <nixternal> doesn't tell you why, what it may have been replaced by, how to fix current .desktop file..nothing
[01:17] <nixternal> in other words, I find it utterly useless
[01:17]  * Jucato tries to offer nixternal some Coke
[01:18] <nixternal> just another stupid wannabe policy in the free software world
[01:21] <seele> nixternal: i thought freedesktop.org died two years ago
[01:22] <ScottK2> So what desktop spec do we follow then?
[01:22] <nixternal> well, they just updated some of their specs recently
[01:22] <nixternal> ScottK2: the desktop spec is totally useless man, I would say about 10% of it may be useless
[01:22] <Jucato> as long as GNOME is alive, fd.o will never die!!
[01:23] <nixternal> whoever writes specificiations need to learn how to write in the first place
[01:23] <nixternal> Jucato: hahahahha
[01:23] <nixternal> you don't just write: This has been deprecated.
[01:23] <nixternal> you tell us why it has been deprecated, and tell us if it is in the MUST or MAY support column, and if it isn't supported, what was it replaced by
[01:24] <ScottK2> I actually disagree with the why part.
[01:24] <ScottK2> Specs are about what you should do, not rehashing the design decisions.
[01:24] <ScottK2> I totally agree with the replaced by though.
[01:24] <nixternal> well, first of all, the design decision isn't documented anywhere
[01:24] <nixternal> the people who work with fd.o don't even know why these 2 tags were deprecated
[01:24] <nixternal> so right there tells you it should be documented
[01:25] <nosredna_ekim> nixternal: heh....I have some release notes for my Apr 1st release, want to preview them/ give some advice?
[01:25] <nixternal> I just grepped everyone of their mailing lists, and found the Tags I was searching for in 1 email...and it said "Deprecating these as I don't think they are used anymore"
[01:25] <nixternal> yet, I just came across then in a KDE 4 package
[01:26] <nixternal> nosredna_ekim: I can do that in a few...right now I am wrestling with stupid -kde4 packages that are dirty
[01:26] <Jucato> well duh! that's why then :)
[01:26] <Jucato> "Deprecating as I don't think they are used anymore"... because KDE 4 uses them!
[01:26] <nixternal> no shit, it is like everything that is deprecated was used in KDE
[01:26] <nixternal> hell, they even have an entire KDE section to the spec
[01:27] <nixternal> if you can't beat um, create specs to hold them back so we can catch up
[01:27] <Jucato> nixternal: they're deprecated *because* they're used in KDE :)
[01:27] <Jucato> you only noticed that now? :P
[01:27] <nixternal> hey, there is 1 KDE rep in the spec though
[01:27] <nixternal> don't know who that person is though, seele you know Preston Brown?
[01:28] <nixternal> Jucato: I have known that for a while and have, since day one, found a majority of fd.o useless
[01:28] <nixternal> I mean come on, their doco spec calls for the 3 year old vaporware from gnome called project mallard
[01:28] <Jucato> it's 3 yrs already? wow
[01:29] <nixternal> the spec says "docbook has to much that we don't need...docbook doesn't have everything we need"
[01:29]  * Jucato is glad fd.o didn't accept the Tango style as a standard (yet?)
[01:29] <nixternal> its xml for christ's sake, you can do whatever you want with it
[01:30] <nixternal> kiconedit.desktop: warning: key "SwallowExec" in group "Desktop Entry" is deprecated
[01:30] <nixternal> kiconedit.desktop: warning: key "SwallowTitle" in group "Desktop Entry" is deprecated
[01:30] <nixternal> anyone know the purpose of those 2? I sure don't, and either does Google
[01:31] <nosredna_ekim> heh it was probably deprecated the say they made it....<_<
[01:31] <nosredna_ekim> *day
[01:32] <nixternal> I will create a lintian-override that says "who cares lintian, you and fd.o are to stupid to provide info on how to fix it"
[01:32] <crimsun> The SwallowTitle and SwallowExec keys are deprecated. The SwallowTitle key is of type localestring and specifies the title of the window if is swallowed onto the panel. The SwallowExec  key is of type string and specifies the program to exec if swallowed app is clicked.
[01:33] <crimsun> (http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/desktop-entry-spec-latest.html)
[01:33] <nixternal> ya, tells me a bunch, wth is swallowing into the panel?
[01:33] <nixternal> man did I have a good joke for that one
[01:33] <nixternal> heh, I have heard "Kubuntu ate my data", but never heard "The panel swallowed my app"
[01:33] <ScottK2> nixternal: What is it with you.  One minute you're complaining about size and then it's swallowing.  This is a family channel man.
[01:34] <nixternal> whoa, your head is in the gutter
[01:34] <nixternal> I was thinking along the lines of Heron silly
[01:34] <ScottK2> Not me.  I think you're projecting.
[01:34] <nixternal> hahahahaha
[01:34] <nixternal> shhh
[01:35] <nixternal> ScottK2: if there are keys in a .desktop file that are empty, they can be removed right? I can remove some to make desktop-file-validate happy
[01:36]  * ScottK2 dunno.
[01:36]  * ScottK2 server guy.
[01:36] <nixternal> horrible excuse, especially when you are working on a lot of KDE packages :p
[01:36] <nixternal> crimsun: you da man, can I just patch them to remove the empties?
[01:37] <ScottK2> I trust the desktop validate script more than lintian as lintian just grew all the .desktop stuff recently.
[01:37] <crimsun> nixternal: sure.
[01:37] <nixternal> groovy
[01:37] <nixternal> ScottK2: I was gonna say, today was the first time lintian ever complained about desktop files
[01:37] <nixternal> groovy, then I will just upload a new desktop file into kde svn then
[01:37] <crimsun> nixternal: as for "swallowed", think "app running in an afterstep wharf/blackbox slit/etc."
[01:38] <nixternal> ahhh, lets see, the last time I had any wharfs would have been the mid 90s :p
[01:40]  * ScottK cheers - http://www.getautomatix.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=2424
[01:41] <nosredna_ekim> nice...
[01:42] <ScottK2> I like the "It's not because we suck" excuse.
[01:43] <nosredna_ekim> heh
[01:43] <nixternal> aww, I am sad to see it go
[01:44] <nosredna_ekim> and like it or not... it is NOT needed any more
[01:44]  * nixternal grabs a tissue and wipes the tear
[01:44] <ScottK2> One of my last big pushes before the Gutsy release was to make sure we distributed everything they were distributing that was legal.
[01:45] <ScottK2> We should send flowers.
[01:46] <nosredna_ekim> maybe we should include automatix in the april fools release :P
[01:47] <ScottK2> Definitely.
[01:50] <nosredna_ekim> haha... I'll load it up and make a screen shot :P...I have to go find a nice wall paper though... you can read my current release notes here http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/61185/
[01:51] <ScottK2> Missing a W at the start
[01:52] <nosredna_ekim> yeah.. I know <_<
[01:52] <nixternal> nosredna_ekim: use the tux and butterfly wallpaper :)
[01:52] <nixternal> I would change the whole color scheme too
[01:53] <nosredna_ekim> oh yeah..... its gonna be pink :)
[01:53] <ScottK2> That's my value added for the release.
[01:53] <nosredna_ekim> maybe a nice turquise unicorn background
[01:54] <nixternal> oh man, imbrandon has a great unicorn one
[01:54] <nixternal> or maybe that was hobbsee
[01:54] <nosredna_ekim> any idea of the name?I can search google for it
[01:54] <nixternal> well speak of the devil :)
[01:55] <Hobbsee> heh
[01:55] <nixternal> Hobbsee: remember that nasty unicorn/pony wallpaper that either you or imbrandon had? any idea where it is located?
[01:55]  * Hobbsee blew up her system, and doesnt' have her private key here.
[01:55] <Hobbsee> nixternal: imbrandon had it, i dont know if he has a copy
[01:55] <nixternal> trying to remember where he posted that bad boy
[01:57] <nosredna_ekim> how about: http://bchilds.com/blog/files/blogimage.jpg
[01:57] <nosredna_ekim> ah.. its vista...
[01:57] <nosredna_ekim> NM ;)
[01:57] <nixternal> oh lord that is ugly, yet perfect
[01:58] <nixternal> I would screenshot kbfx looking like XP
[01:58] <Jucato> wth? O.o
[01:58] <nixternal> or better yet, just screenshot PCLOS, it looks like XP
[01:58] <Jucato> nixternal: oh I thought Vista looking like kbfx :)
[01:59] <nosredna_ekim> ha
[01:59] <nosredna_ekim> I want a wallpaper like that though
[02:05] <nosredna_ekim> here we go.... just gotta color it :) http://greywolf.critter.net/images/gallery/critters/2007-09-10-happy-unicorn-drawing-300dpi.gif
[02:06] <nosredna_ekim> hrm... its probably not GPLed though...
[02:07] <Jucato> not the same though... that other one is prettier :P
[02:09] <nosredna_ekim> ;)
[02:16] <nosredna_ekim> perfect! http://victorian.fortunecity.com/hampton/426/thwpics/01/unicorn-800x600-003th.jpg
[02:18] <Jucato> that's 800x600? O.o
[02:18] <nosredna_ekim> actuall... no... it seems its javascripted to the real image
[02:19]  * Jucato personally prefers dragons...
[02:38] <nareshov> do we have korundum for kde4/qt4 yet?
[02:39] <Jucato> ruby right? have you checked kdebindings?
[02:39] <Jucato> (or do you mean packages?)
[02:40] <nareshov> can I write a kde4/qt4 app with korundum?
[02:41]  * Jucato doesn't know :)
[02:41]  * Jucato doesn't know ruby at all
[02:41] <nareshov> :)
[02:41] <nareshov> I know PyQt4 is ready
[03:05] <ScottK2> My middle daughter (14) needed a laptop to take to school today for a science presentation she had to give.  I gave her my old laptop to take (which is running Hardy).
[03:05]  * ScottK2 didn't know she was going to have to use a projector and present to the whole class.
[03:06] <ScottK2> So, her whole science class has heard of Kubuntu now and the Hardy displayconfig manages just fine with at least one kind of projector.
[03:06] <yuriy> oh really? wow
[03:07] <yuriy> i use nvidia-settings for that, but have had an embarassing problem
[03:07] <yuriy> that involved my mouse running out of batteries and the computer freezing when i turned off the mouse o_O
[03:08] <yuriy> good to know displayconfig works for something
[03:09] <ScottK2> Yeah.
[03:10] <ScottK2> This is a very old laptop with an old enough ATI that's it's well supported with Free drivers
[03:26] <nixternal> ScottK2: what was the issue with projectors previously?
[03:26] <nixternal> only problem I have is keeping my lcd at 1280x800 and having the projector at 1024x768...did you fix that?
[03:27] <nixternal> what I would do to bypass it is use xrandr and switch it that way...only way it would work actually
[03:28] <ScottK2> Dunno.  I've heard people kvetch and with the general bitrot of displayconfig, I was pleasantly suprised it worked.
[03:28] <ScottK2> In this case just plugging it in with the 2nd display set to plug and play worked.
[03:29] <nixternal> nice
[03:29] <nixternal> I will test it next week at the uni
[03:29] <nixternal> I have a huge presentation next week to do and would like it working prior to giving it
[03:29] <ScottK2> nixternal: That'd be good.
[03:30] <nixternal> speaking of which, I need to get to work on that presentation
[03:30] <ScottK2> nixternal: When you say 'use xrandr', how would you go about doing that?
[03:30] <nixternal> 1 talk is Kubuntu and KDE community..the other talk is KDE 4
[03:30] <ScottK2> This is all KDE3 don't forget.
[03:30] <nixternal> ScottK2: there is a kicker applet/icon and I would click it and select 1024x768
[03:30] <nixternal> xrandr works in kde4
[03:30] <ScottK2> Ah.  KDE4.
[03:31] <nixternal> but I have to have my lcd at 1024x768 as well
[03:31] <nixternal> which sucks on a 1280x800 display
[03:31] <ScottK2> Guidance apparently talks to xrandr a bit too as I've seen comments in the code mentioning it.
[03:37] <nixternal> how come our kde4 packages all seem to have debian-changelog-file-is-a-symlink
[03:38] <ScottK2> nixternal: Because Ubuntu hacked CDBS to always do that.
[03:38] <ScottK2> Saves space on the CD.
[03:38] <ScottK2> It's a "Feature".
[03:39] <nixternal> ahh, is it safe/smart to add an overrides for it?
[03:41] <ScottK2> As long as the package with the symlink depends on the one that actually provides the changelog, it's fine.
[03:42] <nixternal> (= ${binary:Version})
[03:43] <ScottK2> Even source version would be fine.
[04:34] <nixternal> vorian: mega fix to keurocalc-kde4...test building and then will install and test fully before I upload
[04:57] <nixternal> are we looking at any showstoppers right now?
[05:02]  * ScottK2 hands nixternal https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-8.04
[05:03] <nixternal> it is taking forever to load, I am scared :)
[05:06] <ScottK2> That'll show ya.
[08:02] <Tonio_> hi there
[08:21] <jussi01> morning Tonio_
[08:48] <Tonio_> Riddell: ping ?
[08:50] <Tonio_> jcastro: ping ?
[09:04] <klerfayt> is there any point in submitting bugs for "compiz desktop-effects" at the moment?
[09:07] <Serega> hey guys, how do we change default X11 resolution now? I cannot find the options in xorg.conf and around
[09:59] <Riddell> hi Tonio_
[09:59] <Riddell> klerfayt: yes
[10:01] <klerfayt> Riddell: yeah. I couldn't resist, already reported
[10:02] <Tonio_> Riddell: hey :)
[10:03] <Tonio_> Riddell: I did contact eyas yet for the UDS? and I can't find the email sent by jcastro including the .doc file to sent to them
[10:03] <Tonio_> Riddell: could you forward the email please ?
[10:04] <Riddell> no, I don't have that e-mail
[10:04] <Tonio_> hum okay I'll ping him them :)
[10:04] <Nightrose> Tonio_: I have the doc for fosscamp if that helps
[10:04] <Tonio_> Nightrose: please ! :)
[10:05] <Nightrose> ok sending in a sec
[10:08] <Nightrose> Tonio_: your mail doesn't work :( - will upload somewhere
[10:09] <Tonio_> tonio@ubuntu.com ???????
[10:09] <Nightrose> jep - will pastebin
[10:10] <Tonio_> Nightrose: weird......
[10:10] <Tonio_> Nightrose: do you use a personal smtp server ? if yes, rejection is probably due to dsrbl filtering
[10:10] <Nightrose> nope - gmail
[10:10] <Tonio_> I'd be interested to see what happens :)
[10:11] <Nightrose> Tonio_: http://www.lydiapintscher.de/tmp
[10:12] <Tonio_> Nightrose: thanks :)
[10:12] <Nightrose> Tonio_: http://pastebin.com/m68b00ada
[10:12] <Nightrose> no prob
[10:12] <Tonio_> Nightrose: who to send the email to ?
[10:12] <Tonio_> at eyas ?
[10:14] <Nightrose> nicki at eyas co uk or  amy
[10:14] <Nightrose> for fosscamp at least
[10:14] <Tonio_> Nightrose: canonical smtp server has fallen in one of the filtering lists.......;
[10:14] <Nightrose> ah ok
[10:15] <Tonio_> Nightrose: can you re-send, to be sure ?
[10:15] <Nightrose> sure
[10:15] <Tonio_> I removed the "relays" list
[10:15] <Nightrose> done
[10:17] <Riddell> so Tonio_, you seem to have quietly imposed Tango upon us
[10:18] <Tonio_> hu ?????????
[10:18] <Riddell> maybe it was an accident :)
[10:18] <Nightrose> <- afk for a while
[10:19] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'm am not the kind of guys that "impose" things :)
[10:20] <Tonio_> Riddell: it was discussed a long time ago with sho
[10:20] <Tonio_> Riddell: 3 month ago we discussed this during a meeting with hobbsee, and afaicr, I said we'll change the icon theme to one sho likes, and I gave the url
[10:20] <Tonio_> everyone seemed to agree on the approach
[10:21] <Riddell> but but... it's tango!
[10:21] <Tonio_> Riddell: I just wanted the new konversation for the change, but seems it'll be too late for hardy, I did it last week :)
[10:21] <Tonio_> Riddell: any problem with it ?
[10:21] <Riddell> why did sho prefer a third party theme over one shipped with konversation?
[10:21] <Tonio_> Riddell: beter ask him ;)
[10:21] <Tonio_> Riddell: next konvi will include tango afaik
[10:22] <Riddell> arg!
       The Tango theme? Yeah, I switched to it too ;)
       this is the right one: http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/Tango+Theme+for+Konversation?content=51838
[10:22] <Tonio_> Riddell: as you can see, I didn't decide tango on my own ;)
[10:25] <Tonio_> Riddell: looking at the meeting minutes, I didn't say it was tango, I just said that we would use sho's prefered theme, and everyone agreed, since sho was complaning about us ;)
[10:25] <Tonio_> Riddell: don't you like tango ? I don't like on the normal desktop, but for konversation, I pretty much like it
[10:26] <Tonio_> Riddell: in any case I'm sorry for the confusion, but that's more a misscomprehension than me imposing things :)
[10:28] <Riddell> tango is badly licenced (CC not accepted by debian) and has a nasty political element to it (they call it a standard when its just an icon theme)
[10:28] <Tonio_> Riddell: ah...... I wasn't aware about that
[10:29] <Tonio_> Riddell: concerning the licence, I seem to remember that we at ubuntu didn't have any problem with the CC in the past, right ?
[10:29] <Tonio_> concerning icons at least
[10:29] <Riddell> no
[10:30] <Tonio_> Riddell: ./ubuntu irc_#kubuntu-devel.log:[mar jan 8 2008] [11:15:24] <Riddell>   CC is not DFSG free but it is fine in ubuntu
[10:30] <Tonio_> Riddell: isn't that you ? ;)
[10:31] <Riddell> hat's the case
[10:31] <Tonio_> Riddell: so except the political problem, what is the problem with the licence ?
[10:33] <Riddell> "CC is not DFSG free"
[10:33] <Tonio_> "but is fine in ubuntu" ;)
[10:34] <Tonio_> Riddell: that's in the kubuntu-default-settings package right
[10:34] <Tonio_> Riddell: so let's say what was exceptable 3 month ago is not anymore ?
[10:34] <Riddell> it's acceptable to us, not Debian
[10:35] <Tonio_> hum...... okay, so we can include a CC licenced theme to k-d-s, right ?
[10:35] <Tonio_> so what is the problem with tango ? I'm sorry but I'm lost....
[10:36] <Tonio_> Nightrose: got the mail this time :)
[10:39] <Riddell> the artistic problem is that it doesn't fit in with crystal, the political problem is that I don't especially like tango (and I suspect kwwii will agree) since it tried to proclaim itself as a standard that it isn't
[10:39] <Tonio_> Riddell: oki ;)
[10:40] <Tonio_> Riddell: so e have to find out another one sho will like
[10:40] <Riddell> well, hum
[10:41] <Riddell> I've e-mailed konversation-devel telling about the licence issue
[10:41] <Tonio_> oki
[10:41] <Riddell> and told ruphy the situation, he was the guy who complained origianlly and maybe he'll make an oxygen theme
[10:42] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'd love that
[10:42] <Riddell> I guess we can leave it for now and see what happens
[10:42] <Tonio_> Riddell: oki
[10:42] <Tonio_> Riddell: sorry for the confusion
[10:43] <_StefanS_> hey Tonio_
[10:43] <Tonio_> _StefanS_: hey ;)
[10:53] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'll ping you next time, promissed :)
[11:12] <Riddell> anyone have bright ideas how to disable kde3's kded mediamanager in kde 4?
[11:13] <smarter> Riddell: how is it disabled in ubiquity?
[11:19] <smarter> found it
[11:19] <smarter> Riddell: dcop kded kded unloadModule medianotifier
[11:22] <Riddell> well, not in ubiquity, in a kde 4 session
[11:22] <Riddell> the problem is you don't know when to call that, it would need to be after kded starts up
[11:23] <smarter> daemon?
[11:23] <Riddell> kded is a daemon :)
[11:23] <smarter> yes, but we could make some sort of daemon which checks peridoically if kded is running and unload medianotifier if it's the case
[11:24] <smarter> *periodically
[11:24] <Riddell> would be better just to modify kded to do it itself
[11:25] <smarter> patch kded to check if kde4 is running and disable medianotifier if it's the case?
[11:26] <Riddell> I guess so
[11:27] <smarter> Is there a reliable way to know what kde version is running?
[11:27] <TheInfinity> smarter, just start any kde app and click help -> about kde
[11:28] <Riddell> something more programmable :)
[11:28] <nareshov> was about to say that ^^
[11:28] <smarter> yes ;)
[11:28] <smarter> starting a KDE4 session in Xephyr to check some environment variables
[11:28] <smarter> oh, oxygen cursor theme, grooby
[11:28] <smarter> *groovy
[11:28] <nareshov> smarter: how about '<any_kde_app> -v' ?
[11:28] <Riddell> ps -ef | grep plasma would work, not terribly elegant
[11:29] <nareshov> '<any_kde_app> -v | grep KDE'
[11:29] <smarter> someone can start plasma under kde3
[11:29] <Riddell> right, but if they do they can live with the consequenses
[11:30] <smarter> (;
[11:30] <sebas> DESKTOP_SESSION=kde4
[11:30] <sebas> KDE_SESSION_VERSION=4
[11:30] <sebas> Those come to mind
[11:31] <smarter> DESKTOP_SESSION=kde here
[11:31] <Riddell> sebas: DESKTOP_SESSION=default is also possible
[11:32] <sebas> :)
[11:32] <sebas> Fix your environment, guys ;-)
[11:32] <smarter> KDE_SESSION_VERSION seems good
[11:32] <smarter> doesn't exist in kde3
[11:34] <Riddell> right, perfect
[11:35]  * smarter looks at kded code
[11:35] <Riddell> I think the patch would be to the medianotifier plugin, not kded itself
[11:36] <sebas> Does the medianotifier run when kde4 is started already?
[11:36] <sebas> THen one could unload it from startkde4
[11:36] <Riddell> no
[11:36] <sebas> Otherwise, kde3init might be a candidate?
[11:36] <Riddell> it runs when you start a kde 3 app (which starts kded)
[11:36]  * sebas is beautifully ignorant when it comes to that :>
[11:36] <sebas> Aye, then kded as you say
[11:36] <smarter> people still use kde3 and want medianotfier ;)
[11:37]  * smarter runs a dpkg -S /usr/share/services/kded/medianotifier.desktop
[11:37] <smarter> kdebase-kio-plugins
[11:38] <Riddell> kdebase-3.5.9/kioslave/media/medianotifier
[11:38] <Riddell> I think an if statement in the constructor of medianotifier.cpp would do it
[11:38] <smarter> how do we run shell code from C++, KProcess?
[11:38] <Riddell> if not KDE_SESSION_VERSION=4 {connectDCOP...}
[11:38] <Riddell> smarter: why do we need to?
[11:39] <smarter> KDE_SESSION_VERSION is not defined in the code
[11:39] <Riddell> c++ can read environment variables easily enough
[11:40] <smarter> really?
[11:40] <Riddell> http://www.cplusplus.com/reference/clibrary/cstdlib/getenv.html
[11:40] <smarter> cool
[11:41] <Riddell> smarter: do I detect you are volunteering to try coding this?
[11:41] <smarter> exactly ;)
[11:41] <Riddell> excellent, thanks
[11:42]  * Riddell out for annual haircut
[11:57] <Nightrose> hmmm /me should consider that as well...
[13:53] <jpatrick> did anyone test the moodin patch? (https://launchpad.net/~jpatrick/+archive)
[13:55] <ScottK2> Not yet.
[14:05] <uga> guys, are the new beta live CDs secure enough?
[14:06] <Hobbsee> why would they not be?
[14:06] <uga> well, not booting on 80% machines for example =)
[14:06] <uga> I need to recover a box from a friend, and my CDs are all 64bit
[14:06] <Hobbsee> security != workingness
[14:07] <uga> so I need to download one. As he'll end up upgrading to hardy anyway, I was wondering if it's the way to go
[14:07] <uga> Hobbsee: hehe, true
[14:07] <uga> are they somehow working mostly?
[14:07] <uga> I know the packages are rather okay
[14:07] <sebas> A machine that's not booted is pretty secure IMO
[14:07] <uga> rofl
[14:07] <CheGuevara> lol
[14:08] <Hobbsee> sebas: :)
[14:08] <Hobbsee> sebas: how's it going?
[14:08] <uga> so do those CDs have any chances of booting? =)
[14:08] <uga> >10%? =)
[14:08] <sebas> Hobbsee: bizzi as usual, but generally quite excellent
[14:08] <sebas> How are you, girlie?
[14:08] <Hobbsee> sebas: well, i became a traitor, and am focussing a lot on uni stuff atm
[14:08] <uga> sigh, I wonder why I bothered, given I knew I'd get no proper answer. Brds =))
[14:09] <Hobbsee> uga: they apperaed to pass the tests for beta, so they must work to some degree
[14:10] <uga> ok, that sounds good enough
[14:10] <Hobbsee> sebas: apart from that, pretty good :)
[14:11] <sebas> Hobbsee: Hehe, studying = traiting
[14:12] <Hobbsee> sebas: nah, moving to gnome == traitoring
[14:12] <sebas> Had i known this before, my study would have taken agres^2 (instead of just ages(
[14:12] <sebas> Ah, why GNOME?
[14:12] <sebas> Does someone pay you for it? ;-)
[14:12] <Hobbsee> a few reasons
[14:12] <Hobbsee> hah.  no.  i wish.
[14:13] <Hobbsee> sebas: /query?
[14:13] <sebas> sure
[14:13] <Jucato> s/moving/moved/
[14:13]  * Jucato just finished installing Ubuntu Gutsy on his lappy 2 minutes ago :P
[14:14] <uga> yeah, you gotta have guts-you to install that thing
[14:15] <uga> Jucato: I hope you meant _k_ubuntu =)
[14:15] <Jucato> uga: no. I meant *U*buntu :)
[14:15] <Jucato> I'm just playing with it until Hardy arrives
[14:15]  * uga tries to /op 
[14:15] <Jucato> then I'll wipe it from the face of my system and install Kubuntu :P
[14:16] <uga> Jucato: just install kubuntu 3.x and upgrade packages up to hardy
[14:16] <uga> it's rather safe. I did that
[14:16] <uga> kde4 packs had some conflicts that I had to solve manually, but they won't install unless you request explicitly, so you're safe
[14:17] <uga> s/kubuntu 3.x/kubuntu gutsy I meant obviousyl
[14:17] <uga> ly
[14:17] <Jucato> lol
[14:18] <Jucato> nah. I'm just taking advantage of the fact that I just reformatted the laptop and I don't have any hardy installers around yet
[14:18] <uga> so go get vista
[14:18] <uga> but not gutsy ;)
[14:18] <Jucato> lol
[14:18] <uga> ggutsy, I mean
[14:25] <Hobbsee> Jucato: dangerous idea.  what if you don't go back?
[14:26] <Jucato> Hobbsee: I will. I'm still using KDE on the desk :P
[14:26] <Jucato> besides, I hate programming in GTK+/C :P
[14:30]  * ScottK2 says what the heck and dist-upgrades his laptop to Hardy ...
[14:34] <Riddell> ScottK2: dist-upgrade or the proper process?
[14:34] <ScottK2> do-release-upgrade or whatever it is
[14:34] <ScottK2> The cli one.
[14:35] <ScottK2> My old laptop I dist-upgraded without issue several weeks ago.  I take that as a good sign.
[14:35] <Riddell> anyone seen bug 180429 ?
[14:35] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 180429 in dolphin "Dolphin creates huge temp files till partition is full" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/180429
[14:35] <seele> kde4?
[14:36] <Nightrose> ScottK2: can you give me some feedback on the speed of the servers later? if they are ok I will upgrade my laptop too
[14:37] <seele> ah, kde3
[14:37] <Nightrose> seele: 3 according to the bugreport
[14:37] <seele> yes, i see that
[14:38] <seele> i dont even see a tmp file for dolphin in my /tmp/kde-seele
[14:38] <ScottK2> Nightrose: According to the dist upgrade tool it's bouncing between ~150 and ~450 kB/s
[14:38] <Nightrose> ScottK2: ok thx
[14:39]  * Nightrose will backup some stuff then and join the fun
[14:42] <ScottK2> Nightrose: Just bumped up over 900 for a second.
[14:43] <Nightrose> hehe
[14:55] <sahin_h> Is it to late for ask a newer version of GTK-QT Theme Engine?
[14:56] <sahin_h> I tested the 1.1 version and works great with KDE4.0.2.
[14:56] <ScottK> Isn't there already an FFe pending for that?
[14:57] <sahin_h> ScottK: I don't know.
[14:58] <sahin_h> ScottK: Where can I check it? (The FFe pending)
[14:58] <ScottK> Bug #198762 is what I was thinking of.
[14:58] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 198762 in gtk2-engines-qtcurve "[FFe request] Upgrade to gtk2-engines-qtcurve 0.56.3" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/198762
[14:58] <ScottK> Is that the same package?
[15:00] <sahin_h> ScottK: Nope. I'm talking about the gtk-qt-engine package.
[15:00] <ScottK> OK.
[15:00] <ScottK> Then I guess the answer would be that you can ask (file an FFe).
[15:01] <sahin_h> ScottK: http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/GTK-QT+Theme+Engine?content=9714
[15:01] <sahin_h> ScottK: Is this FFe a special launchpad bug report?
[15:02]  * ScottK hands sahin_h https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
[15:02] <sahin_h> ScottK: Thanks for the link.
[15:04] <sahin_h> ScottK: Stupid me! apachelogger has created a package already.
[15:05] <sahin_h> ScottK: The name of the package:  gtk-qt-engine-kde4
[15:07] <apachelogger> :P
[15:09] <sahin_h> apachelogger: I know your goal... Package the whole KDE world for Kubuntu. ;-)
[15:12] <apachelogger> sahin_h: well, I am not too bad at it, right? ;-)
[15:15] <gribelu> while we're on the subject.. does firefox look weird for you with gtk-qt-engine-kde4?
[15:15] <yuriy> morning
[15:15] <yuriy> gribelu: tabs?
[15:15] <gribelu> tabs... in page widgets
[15:15] <sahin_h> apachelogger: Yes, you are simply amazing.
[15:15] <yuriy> ah, yeah, those too
[15:15] <gribelu> like checkboxes and stuff
[15:16] <gribelu> right.. so it's a feature :D
[15:16] <apachelogger> hm
[15:16] <apachelogger> I only noticed it for the tabs
[15:16] <apachelogger> rendering glitches probably
[15:16] <apachelogger> but better than plain gtk IMO
[15:16] <gribelu> apachelogger: try gmail for example
[15:17] <gribelu> other gtk apps look great though
[15:17] <apachelogger> hm
[15:17] <apachelogger> gmail buttons look like gtk native
[15:18] <gribelu> they look like oxygen for me.. but they are huge.. and sometimes buttons/checkboxes are somehow hidden like they have wrong Z value.. when i hover over them they become normal again
[15:19] <sahin_h> gribelu: Yep, I can confirm that.
[15:19] <gribelu> oh and oxygen buttons are supposed to be nice and rounded but in FF they have visible edges instead of transparent ones
[15:20] <apachelogger> gribelu: firefox3?
[15:20] <gribelu> yes..
[15:21] <gribelu> maybe it's because i'm using dark colors on oxygen
[15:21] <apachelogger> hm
[15:21] <apachelogger> hm
[15:21] <apachelogger> yeah
[15:21] <apachelogger> really, I blame firefox
[15:21] <apachelogger> especially firefox3
[15:22] <apachelogger> doesn't look all that off in my firefox2
[15:23] <yuriy> gribelu: i have the nontransparent edges problem, i haven't noticed any other glitches
[15:23] <yuriy> ff3
[15:25] <gribelu> well there's also a small glitch with the scrollbars.. as in the arrow thingies disappear when i scroll the page.. but that's nothing
[15:26] <gribelu> apachelogger: here's what it looks like http://img84.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snapshot3uu2.png
[15:28] <Riddell> jpatrick: your ksplash package fixes it for me
[15:28] <apachelogger> dark colors make it even worse looking :S
[15:28] <gribelu> yeah :D
[15:29] <gribelu> someone that knows stuff about GTK should post a bug at mozilla.. otherwise i'm sure they would blame gtk-qt-engine
[15:30] <gribelu> then again there are no gtk people here
[15:31] <yuriy> gribelu: there is a fix for the scroll bar problem that you can install through system settings
[15:34] <gribelu> yuriy: doesn't work.. for me
[15:35] <gribelu> never did.. even for qt3 and ff2
[15:35] <gribelu> but i almost never use the scrollbar
[15:35] <yuriy> gribelu: restarted firefox? logged out and in maybe?
[15:35] <gribelu> rebooted many times since then :D
[15:38] <ScottK2> That was painless.
[15:38] <Riddell> yay
[15:39] <nixternal> mornin'
[15:40] <Nightrose> 3 hours of package downloading remaining here
[15:41] <ScottK2> That was done via wireless too.
[15:42] <Nightrose> bah - down to 1 hour 20 mins after telling my flat mate to turn of torrents... :P
[15:42] <gribelu> haha
[15:50] <jussi01> oh noes!! its a nixternal!! :P
[15:51] <\sh> Nightrose: kick him/her ;)
[15:55] <Nightrose> hehe nah - he is rarely here (a few hours each month at most - spends the rest of his time at his bf's house) - don't want to loose him since he is paying half of the rent :P
[15:55] <gribelu> his bf?
[15:55] <gribelu> :|
[15:57] <Nightrose> jep - why the sad face? it is none of my busines after all
[15:57] <gribelu> well i hope you're not attractive
[15:58] <Nightrose> haha depends on whom you ask - anyway - back to work
[15:58] <uga> guys, the new beta live CD doesn't allow testing kde4 without installing, right?
[15:58] <uga> I'd like to show him what's next
[15:58] <Nightrose> uga: there is a kde 4 live cd
[15:59] <uga> ah, I thought it was a single cd :/
[15:59] <uga> ok, it'll have to be next time
[15:59] <Nightrose> nope one for 3 and one for 4
[15:59] <uga> ok thanks
[16:16] <nixternal> Riddell: take a peak at bug #80819 if you would please
[16:16] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 80819 in kdebase "/media /home directory international description" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/80819
[16:17] <ScottK2> Only filed one new bug out of that upgrade.  I must be slipping.
[16:18] <Artemis_Fowl> Where can I finf the Hardy Release Schedue?
[16:18] <Artemis_Fowl> Schedule*
[16:18] <Artemis_Fowl> find*
[16:18] <Artemis_Fowl> omg
[16:19] <\sh> Artemis_Fowl: on the wiki...search for releaseschedule or wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseSchedule it defaults to hardy
[16:19] <nixternal> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/HardyReleaseSchedule
[16:21] <yuriy> bug 99834: would it be reasonable to get qt4 apps to default to qtcurve on kde3 and oxygen on kde4?
[16:21] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 99834 in kubuntu-default-settings "QT 4 applications are not getting feisty default styles and widgets" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/99834
[16:21] <Riddell> nixternal: works for me
[16:21] <yuriy> (i don't know if this already happens since i'm just running kde4)
[16:22] <Riddell> nixternal: oh I see
[16:22] <Riddell> nixternal: on the whole, if you go to /, you should know what you're looking at
[16:23] <yuriy> slashcomma? :D
[16:24] <gribelu> it's too bad that hardy is scheduled before kde 4.1 alpha .. that alpha might be much better than 4.0.3 :D
[16:24] <yuriy> gribelu: but significantly less tested
[16:25] <ScottK> Which brings up a point I've been thinking about ...
[16:25] <gribelu> i guess.. but 90% of developers are working on 4.1 constantly... while 4.0.x only get some attention right before the release dates
[16:26] <ScottK> Once Hardy is released, since we know we will release Ibex with 4.1.something, would it be better to jump to 4.1 svn snapshots right away?
[16:26] <ScottK> Maybe shove 4.0.x into hardy-proposed/updates.
[16:26] <gribelu> hard feature freeze is scheduled for may 19th
[16:26] <Riddell> ScottK: I think that's a good idea
[16:27] <Riddell> ScottK: there's also the question of putting it in /usr and killing KDE 3 apps
[16:27] <gribelu> upgrading may be difficult
[16:27] <gribelu> but i would prefer having kde4 with normal paths and kde3 in /usr/ib/whatever
[16:27] <ScottK> Maybe move the kde3 apps out of the way (reverse the current situation).
[16:28] <yuriy> for upgrading, wouldn't e.g. kdebase from kde 3.5 upgrade to kdebase from kde 4, and then kdebase replaces/conflicts: kdebase-kde4
[16:29] <yuriy> that ought to do it, no?
[16:31] <gribelu> but will ibex still have kde3 as an option?
[16:31] <nixternal> ScottK: how would you like to work on some mountconfig stuff? :)
[16:31] <gribelu> kde3 is dead :|
[16:32] <ScottK> nixternal: Sure, if you teach displayconfig to talk to xrandr and find out about monitor configs when there is no xorg.conf.
[16:33] <ScottK> nixternal: IIRC, awen said he'd have a look at it.
[16:33] <nixternal> heh, I don't understand anything with guidance, so I am the wrong person :p
[16:33] <nixternal> my question is this: why do we use it? other distros don't and seem to not have these problems
[16:33] <Riddell> other distros have their own tools, which they maintain themselves
[16:34] <ScottK> We won't (at least not displayconfig) for KDE4.
[16:34] <Riddell> and yes displayconfig will go
[16:36] <ScottK> nixternal: Since bryce isn't one of the only two Gnome only devs that Ubuntu has, go ask him where the xrandr configuration tool for KDE Hardy is.
[16:36] <nixternal> krandtray
[16:36] <ScottK> That's KDE4, right?
[16:40] <ScottK> ^^^ Suspend works fine.  Restore, not so good.
[16:44] <Riddell> kcmshell4 display  is the up and coming one
[16:44] <Riddell> broken in kde 4.0
[16:44] <Riddell> krandrtray is in KDE 3
[16:52] <ScottK> OK.  Thanks.
[17:00] <jpatrick> Riddell: awesome, upload away?
[17:01] <Riddell> jpatrick: done it
[17:01] <jpatrick> ah
[17:01] <jpatrick> thanks :)
[18:58] <smarter> afternoon
[18:59] <smarter> Riddell: I've made a patch for kded medianotifier to not show up in kde4
[18:59] <smarter> problem is, I've never saw the medianotifier popup of kde3 in kde4, even with kde3 apps launched
[18:59] <smarter> *sawn
[19:00] <smarter> *seen
[19:04] <Riddell> smarter: I get it all the time
[19:07] <nosrednaekim> Riddell: so how is the proposal for getting the printing applet into KDE going? I can't tell from the discussion :)
[19:09] <Riddell> nosrednaekim: unsure
[19:09] <Riddell> albert has a fair point
[19:09] <Riddell> I don't know if everyone else agrees with him or not
[19:11] <nosrednaekim> yeah, thats the first thing I noticed when I ran it.... it didn't have the oxygen look.
[19:11] <smarter> Riddell: strange, patch is here if you can test: http://smarter.free.fr/pkg/kubuntu_9924_kde4_no_medianotifier.diff
[19:14] <smarter> I'll test by manually setting the KDE_SESSION_VERSION variable
[19:18] <smarter> hmm, my patch makes kdebase FTBFS, don't try it now ;)
[19:22] <nosrednaekim> uh... now I have to upgrade to hardy, there is no python kde 4.02 bindings for gutsy :)
[19:26] <blizzzek> nosrednaekim: you're right :(
[19:27] <blizzzek> but there's another issue
[19:27] <nosrednaekim> which is?
[19:28] <blizzzek> if you make a menu for a tray icon, you do not see the text when oxygene is the current style. works in plastique though e.g.
[19:28] <blizzzek> Riddell told me it has something to do with python-dbus or so
[19:30] <blizzzek> nosrednaekim: that's what it looks like then http://www.arthur-schiwon.de/sites/default/files/skbd_mnu_oxy_sm.png
[19:32] <nosrednaekim> blizzzek: amarok
[19:32] <nosrednaekim> 's loks fine... or is this a python only problem?
[19:33] <blizzzek> nosrednaekim: not amarok, an app of my own. as you see, the text is missing
[19:33] <nosrednaekim> yeah...
[19:34] <blizzzek> same app, same code, but with plastique-style: http://www.arthur-schiwon.de/sites/default/files/skbd_mnu_plas_sm.png
[19:36] <blizzzek> "#Oxygen doesn't work with python-dbus (it loads QtDbus which clashes) so force to plastique"  <--- i was told
[19:36] <nosrednaekim> yeah... so I saw...
[19:36] <nosrednaekim> so why can't we use qtdbus?
[19:36] <Riddell> no bindings
[19:38] <nosrednaekim> meh....
[19:45] <nosrednaekim> ok, how about this. put all the dbus related stuff in another program, and call the program containing the GUI from within that program(using the subprocess function)... then communicate between the two with stdin ...
[19:50] <nosrednaekim> could someone mark this as wishlist? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/desktop-effects-kde/+bug/207612
[19:50] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 207612 in desktop-effects-kde ""Custom effects" doesn't download compizconfig-settings-manager" [Undecided,New]
[19:53] <smarter> why does oxygen needs qtdbus?
[20:10] <Nightrose> wohoooo - upgraded my laptop sucessfully to hardy
[20:10] <Nightrose> this is the first upgrade that worked flawless for me \o/
[20:10] <Nightrose> awesome
[20:17] <smarter> Riddell: works now (: http://smarter.free.fr/pkg/kdebase.debdiff
[20:17] <smarter> should I commit it to the bzr branch?
[20:20] <Riddell> bzr is likely out of date
[20:22] <smarter> "4:3.5.8-2ubuntu13"
[20:22] <smarter> hum, yes
[20:29] <Riddell> Nightrose: what method?
[20:31] <Nightrose> Riddell: the graphical installer as mentioned in the release notes for beta
[20:31] <Riddell> excellent
[20:31] <Nightrose> the same for the upgrades I did for edgy and feisty
[20:31] <Nightrose> but they failed back then
[20:32] <Riddell> I think it was a good thing to remove the embedded konsole widget
[20:32] <Nightrose> did that cause a lot of trouble?
[20:40] <davmor2> Riddell: do you have some nice screenshots of kde4 with apps open?
[20:40] <smarter> Riddell: I've an idea on how to implement "don't autoload medianotifier in kde4" in a better way than I did with http://smarter.free.fr/pkg/kdebase.debdiff, but won't have time to do it before tomorrow, so don't hurry to upload it ;)
[20:44] <Riddell> davmor2: http://kde.org/announcements/4.0/applications.php ?
[20:46] <davmor2> Riddell: No I was really after the latest Kubuntu kde4 with several apps open if you get what I mean?
[20:48] <davmor2> I am going to be setting up a test page for KDE4 but I don't have it installed on anything at the moment.
[20:50] <Nightrose> davmor2: if you tell me what you need exactly I probably can get you some
[20:53] <davmor2> Nightrose: Just a KDE4 with several of the current common apps open, like mail, dolphin, dragon some of the plasmoids etc.
[20:53] <Nightrose> ok
[21:12] <blueyed> Will there be a depends from a meta package for gtk-qt-engine-kde4? (like kubuntu-desktop depends on gtk-qt-engine)
[21:18] <Nightrose> davmor2: whatdoyou think of these: http://lydiapintscher.de/tmp
[21:19] <Nightrose> hmm add some spaces in there :P
[21:19] <Nightrose> davmor2: dragonplyer with a video -> black on screenshot
[21:20] <Nightrose> and about mail: kontakt is not finished yet
[21:20] <davmor2> Nightrose: they're perfect thanks :)
[21:20] <Nightrose> :9 yw
[21:21] <davmor2> it's just so people new to testing know what the things look like :)
[21:22] <Nightrose> ughhh davmor2 - let me take the one again that shows the desktop
[21:22] <Nightrose> there is a rendering problem with the taskbar
[21:22] <Nightrose> happens sometimes
[21:22] <davmor2> oh yes
[21:24] <Nightrose> davmor2: uploaded
[21:25] <davmor2> Nightrose: Thanks :)
[21:40] <davmor2> amarok still isn't in KDE4 is it?
[21:45] <CheGuevara> nop
[21:46] <smarter> !info amarok2
[21:46] <smarter> !info amarok2 hardy
[21:47] <davmor2> ta I need to modify the page :)
[21:47] <Nightrose> davmor2: amarok 2.0 final not before kde 4.1 because we depend on these libraries
[21:47] <smarter> there's an alpha in the kde4 ppa at least
[21:47] <Nightrose> beta probably earlier
[21:47] <Nightrose> smarter: that isoutdatedbynow
[21:48] <Nightrose> andwaspre alpha ;-)
[21:48] <Nightrose> meh *and was pre
[21:48] <davmor2> Nightrose: it's only so I can modify the Kubuntu test page rather than writing a complete new one
[21:48] <smarter> space key problems? ;)
[21:48] <Nightrose> smarter: jep - dunno what is wrong with it today
[22:13] <xRaich[o]2x> Hi. When starting KDM4 in hardy i looks like it's doesn't recognize any keystrokes.
[22:14] <xRaich[o]2x> It this a known bug?
[22:15] <Tonio_> Riddell: contrib day tomorrow, time to add the new oxygen konvi theme :)
[22:15] <blizzzek> xRaich[o]2x: do you have kdm4 as default?
[22:15] <xRaich[o]2x> i did
[22:16] <xRaich[o]2x> now i have kdm3. it works but after loggin in kde4 causes trouble
[22:16] <blizzzek> you could not log on, since it was not possible to enter any password, right?
[22:17] <xRaich[o]2x> I kind of looked like the gui was frozen but i could move the mouse
[22:17] <xRaich[o]2x> the strange thing is that the prompt did't blink
[22:18] <xRaich[o]2x> And yes that's why i couldn't log in.
[22:18] <blizzzek> well, it works for me fine.
[22:19]  * Nightrose nags Tonio_ about ksniffer :P
[22:19] <blizzzek> actually, i have no idea where the problem could lie
[22:19] <xRaich[o]2x> blizzzek: what bothers me is that i really lack any information
[22:20] <xRaich[o]2x> I'd like to post a bug report.
[22:20] <xRaich[o]2x> But "it's doesn't work" is kinda crap.
[22:20] <blizzzek> xRaich[o]2x: did you check x server log? although i don't think that the problem lies there
[22:21] <xRaich[o]2x> I'll give it a try
[22:21] <xRaich[o]2x> thought about that already
[22:23] <xRaich[o]2x> hmm weird... it works now, but it took ages to show up
[22:24] <xRaich[o]2x> But those aliased fonts look mighty nice ^^
[22:25] <xRaich[o]2x> wtf? It shows up on Alt+F9 ôO
[22:28] <ScottK2> Someone who cares about KDE4, please see slangasek's latest comments in #ubuntu-motu
[22:29] <ScottK2> Riddell: ^^^
[22:29] <blizzzek> ScottK2: that's tricky when you're not in that channel already ;)
[22:30] <jpatrick> ScottK2: you killed him
[22:31] <ScottK2> kdepim-kde4 doesn't build.  Do we need it?
[22:31] <ScottK2> jpatrick: ^^
[22:32] <jpatrick> ScottK2: +1 for nukeage (for now), it's not yet ready upstream (iirc)
[22:32] <jpatrick> but..... I'm not the important-decisions-guy
[22:32] <jpatrick> apachelogger: ^^
[22:33] <ScottK2> If Riddell wants it back he can reupload it and New it himself.
[22:38] <jpatrick> aren't we using the kde3 version of pim anyway?
[22:39]  * Nightrose thought so
[22:44] <jpatrick> Riddell: wb, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/61284/
[22:47] <jpatrick> ok, nixternal is on the case
[22:47] <nixternal> ya, those can go
[22:47] <nixternal> neither of them work in the first place
[22:48] <nixternal> and people are filing bugs on them
[22:48] <Riddell> yes kill kdepim-kde4
[22:49] <nixternal> actually, I am checking to make sure kphotoalbum-kde4 won't be released with 4.0.3
[22:49] <nixternal> we will get 4.0.3 in Hardy correct?
[22:49] <nixternal> seeing as that is scheduled for next week?
[22:49] <Riddell> should do
[22:49] <Riddell> kphotoalbum-kde4 can go
[22:50] <nixternal> it isn't going to get tagged for 4.0.3?
[22:50] <nixternal> I was going to say if it did to just leave it
[22:50] <Riddell> no
[22:50] <nixternal> ok, let her go
[22:50] <nixternal> fire in the hole!
[22:51] <nixternal> hey, if anyone in here is interested in a bit of upstream work with documentation, let me know...it seems I have been dubbed the coordinator and I have some work all ready to be taken on
[22:51] <ryanakca> Riddell: How many news articles on the front page?
[22:51] <nixternal> figured I would give you first dibs, however I will be posting a blog to attract new contribs
[22:52] <Nightrose> nixternal: hehe - quite a few people jumped on you after that mail heh?
[22:52] <nareshov> nixternal: what sort of documentation?
[22:52] <nixternal> Nightrose: just a bit
[22:52] <Riddell> ryanakca: however many look good
[22:52] <ryanakca> Riddell: ok, I'll set to 5, we can increase/decrease as we see fit.
[22:52] <Riddell> nixternal: congratulations
[22:52] <nixternal> I am covering System Settings & modules, man pages, and kdereview
[22:52] <nixternal> Riddell: movin' on up..one of these days I might be half as cool as you :p
[22:53] <Nightrose> haha nixternal - you are already I think
[22:53] <ryanakca> nixternal: whats to do with man pages?
[22:53] <nixternal> ryanakca: create them in docbook, which isn't the easiest thing in the world
[22:54] <nixternal> well it is easy, just a) tedious, and b) kind of ridiculous actually
[22:54] <nixternal> first time writing a manpage in docbook instead of using those 2 silly manpage scripting things ;p
[22:54] <ryanakca> oh, ouch, what happened to just directly creating the man page in whatever markup man pages are?
[22:54] <nareshov> man pages are originally written in SGML right?
[22:54] <nixternal> nope
[22:54] <nareshov> oh
[22:54] <nixternal> i can't remember the name of it for the life of me
[22:54] <ryanakca> troff
[22:55] <ryanakca> that it?
[22:55]  * Jucato thinks so
[22:55] <nixternal> nroff
[22:55] <nixternal> and troff
[22:55] <nixternal> ya
[22:55] <Jucato> ?roff, better? :)
[22:55] <nareshov> i see a groff too >_>
[22:56] <nixternal> the build scripts are hit or miss for the docbook and manpages
[22:56] <nixternal> ya, groff is another one, so Jucato is right.... ?roff
[22:56] <nareshov> ;p
[22:56] <Jucato> yay! I'm right! for once...
[22:56] <ryanakca> lol
[22:56]  * Jucato hugs nixternal
[22:56] <nixternal> haha
[22:56] <ryanakca> ?buntu :P
[22:56] <nixternal> (.*)buntu
[22:56]  * ryanakca gets back to websiting
[22:56]  * nixternal has been doing about 50 watch files
[22:57] <ryanakca> oooh, got to brush up on your mad regex skills?
[22:57] <nixternal> (.*) that was it
[22:57] <nixternal> and every now and then I would have to do
[22:58] <nixternal> opts=dversionmangle=s/~/-/ \
[22:59]  * nixternal thinks LP needs:  a) better backbone connection, b) larger and faster server farm, and c) ScottK2 to start supporting it
[23:00]  * Jucato *cough*open*cough*source*cough*
[23:01] <ryanakca> nixternal: feel like giving suggestions on the website? (open to anybody else who wants to volunteer)
[23:01] <nareshov> ryanakca: which website? :)
[23:01] <Jucato> our website, presumably
[23:02] <nareshov> :D
[23:02]  * nareshov opens k.o
[23:02] <blizzzek> the secret one, presumably
[23:03] <Jucato> nareshov: it's not uploaded there methinks
[23:03] <nareshov> ok
[23:03] <ryanakca> see drupal(.)ryanak(.)ca
[23:03] <Jucato> why are there eyes in the middle? :P
[23:04] <ryanakca> Jucato: because it isn't a link :P AKA: Shhh please and thank-you
[23:04] <Jucato> :P
[23:04]  * ryanakca doesn't want google indexing it :P
[23:04] <Jucato> ryanakca: please tell me that's an Oxyen download icon? :)
[23:04] <nareshov> ryanakca: the "Helping Out" link in the bottom is too small ;/
[23:05] <nixternal> ryanakca: linkage would be good
[23:05] <Jucato> ooh seele's glasses!
[23:05] <nixternal> ahh see it
[23:06] <nixternal> ryanakca: is that on your home server or a server elsewhere?
[23:06] <nixternal> it isn't playing nice with konqueror 4 for some reason
[23:06] <ryanakca> nixternal: home server :)
[23:07] <nixternal> 30679 nixterna  20   0  130m  41m  24m S 42.9  2.8   0:17.07 konqueror
[23:07] <ryanakca> ouch
[23:07] <nixternal> there is something on that page killin' konqi
[23:07] <ryanakca> hmm... *tries here*
[23:07] <ryanakca> you running trunk or packages?
[23:08] <nixternal> NULL errors..guessing you are running a javascript somewhere
[23:08] <nixternal> ryanakca: both
[23:09] <ryanakca> Yes, just a wee bit of js :)
[23:09] <ryanakca> Hmm... works here. Does it work in FF or another browser?
[23:10] <nixternal> it only happens with konqi 4
[23:10] <ryanakca> I know that all the images get shifted to the right a bit in Opera
[23:11] <nixternal> I see a little rounded corner funniness
[23:11] <Jucato> I see 4 of those :)
[23:11] <nixternal> the free download arrow is shifted up
[23:12] <nixternal> the border shadow looks like a solid black line and not a shadow
[23:12] <ryanakca> Have a screenshot?
[23:13] <nixternal> http://nixternal.com/~rj/site.png
[23:14]  * nixternal wishes we didn't have to follow the 10 year old rounded corner design that ubuntu.com uses
[23:14]  * ryanakca shrugs. Next version I guess :)
[23:15] <nixternal> it just doesn't give me that "hey we are serious here" feel
[23:15] <nareshov> hmm
[23:15] <ryanakca> Hmm... the small links aren't underlined for you... are you using KHTML or whatever you tried to get working with konqueror a while back?
[23:15] <nareshov> apple.com bas rounded corners too ;p
[23:16] <nareshov> s/bas/has/
[23:16] <nixternal> yes, but they don't have 1 big rounded corner design, they have a very elegant design
[23:16] <nixternal> solid background for one
[23:17] <nareshov> agree
[23:17] <nixternal> my 2 favorite software sites are:
[23:17] <nixternal> for beauty: Microsoft.com almost tied with Apple.com
[23:17] <aos101> The thin blue line at the page edge doesn't go all the way down the page on the support page in Firefox 2.
[23:17] <nixternal> for simplicity: tough one, but I really like the front page for openSUSE
[23:18] <nixternal> I helped with the Foresight website, not a big fan of it, but it has a bit more of a professional look honestly
[23:18] <nareshov> ya, opensuse's is nice
[23:18] <Jucato> oooh now I know what fdoving looks like!!!
[23:19] <Jucato> nixternal: biased :P
[23:19] <nareshov> i like the green ;)
[23:19] <nixternal> and I know ryanakca that is nothing you can do because people are whispering in your ear :p
[23:19] <ryanakca> nixternal: :P
[23:19] <nixternal> those same people whispered in mine when I was doing the ubuntu-chicago website
[23:20] <Jucato> horse whisperer...
[23:20] <nixternal> Dog Whisperer! much beter, Cesar rocks!
[23:20] <Jucato> s/beter/better/
[23:20] <ryanakca> aos101: methinks thats because of the foreign characters (cyrillic or something of the sort)
[23:20] <Jucato> hm... gonna make my own distro and call it Hindsight
[23:20] <ryanakca> aos101: but I will look into it, thanks :)
[23:20] <nixternal> man, apple.com changed up a bit, I really like it now
[23:21] <aos101> ryanakca: It's the same in Opera 9.26 if that helps.
[23:21] <nixternal> I want to do a KDE Edu distro called eduKation :p
[23:21] <nixternal> or 'eduKateX'
[23:21] <nareshov> or kedubuntu
[23:21] <nixternal> lol
[23:21] <nareshov> ;p
[23:22] <ryanakca> ubukation :P
[23:22] <nixternal> no more edubuntu though...well there still is, just not for long
[23:22] <Jucato> JuKatix
[23:22] <nixternal> lol
[23:22] <nareshov> heh
[23:22] <ryanakca> lol, where's edubuntu going? dead?
[23:22]  * Jucato boots up his Ubuntu laptop...
[23:23] <nixternal> heh, the students at IIT guessed who drew the huge 'chiKago' sign on their white board
[23:23] <Jucato> lol
[23:23] <ryanakca> lol
[23:23] <nareshov> IIT?
[23:23] <nixternal> I tagged their classroom
[23:23] <nixternal> Illinois Institute of Technology
[23:23]  * ryanakca loves how running a dist-upgrade on a school computer slows down the network/internet in the /whole/ computer lab
[23:23] <nareshov> oh
[23:23] <Jucato> man sometimes I wish my second name were Karlos... and sometimes I want to change it :)
[23:23] <ryanakca> lol
[23:24] <Jucato> so that JuKato would be a valid name :P
[23:24] <nixternal> haha
[23:24] <ryanakca> lol
[23:29] <nixternal> http://www.flourishconf.com/flourish2008/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=39&Itemid=26
[23:29] <nixternal> who's coming to see me? :p
[23:29] <nixternal> my talk is next Saturday at 11:45 Chicago Standard Time
[23:30]  * Jucato books a ticket
[23:33] <nixternal> http://www.flourishconf.com/flourish2008/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=40&Itemid=53
[23:33] <nixternal> looking at the schedule, no ?buntu talks
[23:33] <nixternal> I was going to do a talk on Kubuntu and KDE 4, and they told me KDE only please
[23:34] <Jucato> lol?
[23:34] <Jucato> anti-buntu?
[23:35] <nixternal> big time
[23:35] <ryanakca> bummer
[23:35] <Jucato> bum bubum bum
[23:36] <Jucato> this->breakfast("peanut butter and strawberry jam");
[23:36] <nixternal> it will eventually blow over
[23:36] <nixternal> they just got upset with a couple of Canonical employees I guess..they even canceled the Bzr talk...funny thing I just noted, they are having an Svn talk
[23:41] <ryanakca> heh
[23:42] <nixternal> I am surprised there is even a Ubuntu Chicago booth
[23:42] <nixternal> everyone running the booth runs Kubuntu or Xubuntu, but the only CDs they got were Ubuntu :p
[23:46] <Riddell> nixternal: what did the Canonical employees do to them?
[23:47] <Riddell> hmm, up against maddog
[23:49] <nixternal> Mark and Jono issue
[23:49] <nixternal> last year they asked Mark to talk, but there wasn't enough time, and Mark said he would do it this year
[23:50] <nixternal> this year they asked and he said he wouldn't be traveling, then he recommended Jono
[23:50] <nixternal> so then I put them in touch with Jono and guess he stopped responding to their requests
[23:50] <nixternal> it will blow over, it always does
[23:51] <Riddell> not unusual for star speakers
[23:51] <nixternal> the one guy that is running the show get a little overzealous at times
[23:51] <nixternal> Riddell: exactly
[23:52] <nixternal> but they have been able to easily get RMS, Maddog, Perens, Mako, Peter Brown, Brian Fitzpatrick, and Ben Collins-Sussman
[23:52] <nixternal> so they think everyone is like that
[23:53] <nixternal> I told them you, but they said having on KDE/Kubuntu guy is enough :p
[23:53] <nixternal> s/on/one
[23:53] <nixternal> KDE haters...yet they love showing up to my talks and asking about KDE
[23:55]  * apachelogger is wondering what would happen if one has a KDE talk scheduled and starts talking about Kubuntu
[23:56]  * ryanakca envisions them muting the mic, running up on stage and dragging the presenter away... Of course, they don't hate KDE/Kubuntu /that/ much :P
[23:57] <nixternal> apachelogger: I will let you know :)
[23:57]  * ryanakca growls at the XHTML validator
[23:57] <nixternal> nah, you can go into #chiglug on OFTC and ask if anyone dare mute my mic
[23:57] <apachelogger> well, what happens if one starts talking about GNOME?
[23:57]  * apachelogger is considering talking @ LinuxTag about GNOME multimedia @ his KDE multimedia talk
[23:57] <nixternal> apachelogger: then I beat them up!
[23:57] <nixternal> forget muting a mic
[23:57] <nixternal> free speech
[23:57] <nixternal> hahahaha, free beating too :P
[23:57] <apachelogger> hrrhrr
[23:58] <apachelogger> novell gives free hugs, kubuntu gives free beats
[23:58] <apachelogger> just fair IMO
[23:58] <apachelogger> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yg6fDcWMJgY
[23:58] <ryanakca> lol :P
[23:59] <Jucato> hm... konversation oxygen nicklist theme looks good (though a bit too white)
[23:59] <Nightrose> apachelogger: you are sooooo not going to do that with me up on stage :P
[23:59]  * ryanakca wonders why <hr width="20%" /> is invalid on one line (no, its not under a <p> or anything), but not on another