=== kiko is now known as kiko-afk === kiko-afk is now known as kiko-zzz === cprov is now known as cprov-zZz === salgado is now known as salgado-afk === salgado_ is now known as salgado === mrevell is now known as mrevell-lunch === kiko-zzz is now known as kiko === mrevell-lunch is now known as mrevell === salgado is now known as salgado-lunch === salgado-lunch is now known as salgado === kiko is now known as kiko-fud === kiko-fud is now known as kiko [17:52] em [17:55] you're a few minutes early ;-) But I like your spirit! [17:58] I like the userlist on the channel. Much better than last week [17:59] Rinchen: appologies from mwhudson (holiday) [17:59] roger that.... [17:59] well, let's fire it up [17:59] #startmeeting [17:59] Meeting started at 19:00. The chair is Rinchen. [17:59] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [17:59] Welcome to this week's Launchpad development meeting. For the next 45 minutes or so, we'll be coordinating Launchpad development. [17:59] [TOPIC] Roll Call [17:59] New Topic: Roll Call [17:59] me [18:00] me [18:00] me [18:00] me [18:00] me [18:00] me [18:00] me [18:00] me [18:00] me [18:00] me [18:00] me [18:00] me [18:00] me [18:00] apologies from statik, bac, and mwh [18:00] me [18:00] me [18:00] me [18:00] me [18:00] and gmb [18:00] me [18:00] me [18:00] EdwinGrubbs? [18:00] me [18:01] cprov? [18:01] carlos? [18:01] me [18:01] jml? [18:01] me [18:01] me [18:01] Rinchen: no jml [18:01] oh, jml is asleep that's right [18:01] SteveA? [18:01] me [18:01] salgado? [18:02] me [18:02] nifty [18:02] [TOPIC] Agenda [18:02] New Topic: Agenda [18:02] * Next meeting [18:02] * Actions from last meeting [18:02] * Oops report (Matsubara) [18:02] * Critical Bugs (Rinchen) [18:02] * Bug tags [18:02] * Operations report (mthaddon/herb) [18:02] * DBA report (stub) [18:02] * Sysadmin requests (Rinchen) [18:02] * New packages required (salgado) [18:02] * A top user-affecting issue (mrevell) [18:02] * Doc Team report (mrevell) [18:02] * What environments use zopeless mode and require send_email: true (sinzui) [18:02] * LaunchpadValidationError and HTML escaping (intellectronica, kiko) [18:02] me [18:02] * Blockers [18:03] [TOPIC] Next meeting [18:03] New Topic: Next meeting [18:03] we have an action item on this [18:03] kiko - consider changing meeting time after April 6th. [18:03] translations team is sprinting [18:03] it's not april 6th yet! [18:03] Just a reminder :-) [18:04] [ACTION] kiko - consider changing meeting time after April 6th. [18:04] ACTION received: kiko - consider changing meeting time after April 6th. [18:04] thanks [18:04] So, next week, same time, same location [18:04] I love this location [18:04] nice isn't it? :-) [18:04] could be better [18:04] [AGREED] next week, same time, same location [18:04] AGREED received: next week, same time, same location [18:05] [TOPIC] Actions from last meeting [18:05] New Topic: Actions from last meeting [18:05] matsubara to email thumber the code oops [18:05] Rinchen: note that jtv, carlos, danilo will be sprinting, perhaps missing the meeting (not necessarily, but very well could be busy next week) [18:05] Rinchen: I've assigned thumper to the bug instead [18:05] danilos, we'll find you. *evil laughter* [18:05] thank matsubara [18:05] Rinchen: ;) [18:05] [TOPIC] Oops report (Matsubara) [18:05] New Topic: Oops report (Matsubara) [18:05] I have only one new oops to report. Filed as bug 207818 [18:05] Launchpad bug 207818 in malone "Change bug watch form needs better validation when a non-URL is entered" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/207818 [18:06] BjornT, it's a rare occurance (happened only 3 times) but it'd be nice to have it fixed. Is it possible to schedule a fix for the next week 0? [18:06] which is next week [18:06] exactly :-) [18:06] matsubara: yes, that should be possible. [18:07] tomorrow I'll follow up with the teams if there are any new OOPSes after the release [18:07] [AGREED] Bjorn to attempt to schedule bug 207818 for the next week 0 [18:07] AGREED received: Bjorn to attempt to schedule bug 207818 for the next week 0 [18:07] Launchpad bug 207818 in malone "Change bug watch form needs better validation when a non-URL is entered" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/207818 [18:07] btw, oops.cgi is broken and I'm fixing it. [18:07] thanks BjornT [18:07] apart from that, I'm done. back to you Rinchen [18:07] thanks [18:07] [TOPIC] Critical Bugs (Rinchen) [18:07] New Topic: Critical Bugs (Rinchen) [18:07] [LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/196936 [18:07] abel, how is this going? This is now about three weeks old. Perhaps this should be high and not critical? [18:07] LINK received: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/196936 [18:08] adeuring ^^ [18:08] Rinchen, I'm waiting for the review ... [18:08] adeuring, waiting for 3 weeks? :) [18:08] kiko: well, one week [18:08] [LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/207490 [18:08] [LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/207494 [18:08] allenap, you're working on these as release critical yes? Can we help any way? [18:08] LINK received: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/207490 [18:08] LINK received: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/207494 [18:08] help IN any way that is [18:09] Rinchen: intellectronica finished the second one off and they're in PQM afaik. [18:09] allenap, sweet thanks [18:09] adeuring, do you need a reviewer for it? I hear from a good source that salgado is today's on-call reviewer [18:09] It is already on Curtis's queue [18:10] adeuring, why didn't you use on-call? [18:10] adeuring, it's completely unacceptable for a patch to go for a week with no review [18:10] and it's not anybody's fault but yours -- you need to find somebody to review it, not idly wait for it to happen [18:10] kiko: yes, right... [18:10] please follow up with an on-call reviewer [18:10] this was critical.. [18:10] kiko: OK [18:10] anyway [18:11] [TOPIC] Bug tags [18:11] New Topic: Bug tags [18:11] we have two [18:11] * sinzui hangs head in shame for not seeing it [18:11] https://help.launchpad.net/TaggingLaunchpadBugs [18:11] spurious-test-failure by kiko and BjornT [18:11] we skipped this last week since both of you were absent [18:11] well, look at that -- a candidate :) [18:11] it's a tad long isn't it? [18:12] thumper, and? [18:12] I mean, it's /good/ that it's long [18:12] * thumper shrugs [18:12] what purpose would this solve over simply using the test-system tag? [18:12] being able to easily find these bugs when we have an occurrence? [18:13] hmm, there are 73 tagged with test-system today [18:13] that's the main use case [18:13] I'm not strongly +1 but I think it would help to tie this to a process (search using this URL, and research+file if not, email list, [18:13] so for these they would have 3 tags [18:13] etc) [18:14] infrastructure, test-system, and spurious-test-failure [18:14] BjornT, matsubara - your input? [18:15] Rinchen: a spuriour-test-failure might have nothing to do with infrastructure [18:15] right [18:15] Rinchen: i don't think they would automatically have three tags. just because it's a spurious test failure, it doesn't mean that it's infrastructure [18:15] infrastructure is a pretty useless tag tbh [18:15] thumper, indeed but currently all test-system related failures are tagged with both [18:15] kiko, yeah, I have to agree on that [18:15] yeah, not everything is our fault [18:15] kiko, It's rare that something is only tagged as infrastructure [18:15] flacoste, now I did NOT say that :) [18:15] Just your responsibility :-) [18:16] the infrastructure tag is from a time before the foundations team [18:16] I'm +1 for retiring that silly tag [18:16] and change it to foundations? [18:16] and not have a tag [18:16] unless you see a purpose in tagging it that way? [18:17] I think the infrastructure tag is too general to serve any purpose these days so +1 [18:17] -1 in retiring tags unless we have mass tag change in launchpad [18:17] yeah, it means that there is some infrastructure design involved [18:17] we'll have to modify 173 bugs though [18:17] UPDATE bugtags ... [18:17] Rinchen: still, if a bug has spurious-test-failure, it's not necessarily to to with testing infrastructure, so test-system might not be valid there [18:18] agreed [18:18] I see no overwhelming disapproval to the spurious-test-failure failure so [18:18] sold [18:18] [AGREED] spurious-test-failure tag approved. Kiko to update the tagging bug page [18:18] AGREED received: spurious-test-failure tag approved. Kiko to update the tagging bug page [18:19] is there a consensus on retiring infrastructure? [18:19] anyone against it? [18:19] and who will update those 173 bugs [18:19] does it serve /any/ use? [18:19] * Rinchen looks at kiko. [18:19] * SteveA belatedly says "me" [18:19] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/145746 [18:19] Launchpad bug 145746 in launchpad "Upgrade to zope 3.3.1" [High,Triaged] [18:20] * thumper looks at SteveA agreeing to update 173 bugs [18:20] there are some valid uses for Francis perhaps [18:20] yes, let's not kill him today [18:20] that tag, OTOH [18:20] flacoste, what's your opinion since this is in your area [18:20] do have to remove the tag, just because we retire it? why not just let it fade way? [18:20] we can also let it fade away [18:20] I just don't see any use in advertising it [18:20] yes, what kiko said [18:21] anyone against this? [18:21] Rinchen: hmm [18:21] flacoste, matsubara ? [18:21] i think i am against [18:21] yeah, i think it does has a purpose [18:21] it collects information on infrastructure need we have [18:21] when have you used it? [18:22] the zope item above [18:22] in planning before 2.0 [18:22] it's one of the few bugs I see that are infrastructure only [18:22] * kiko shrugs [18:22] I find it useful, specially to address things that should be foundations responsability :-) [18:22] Rinchen: infrastructure to me means any library-level stuff we need, not necessarily external infrastructure [18:22] ok, never mind then [18:22] matsubara, isn't that the ENTIRE launchpad product? ;-) [18:23] matsubara: kiko's view is what Rinchen just said [18:23] [AGREED] we will not retire the infrastructure tag just yet. [18:23] AGREED received: we will not retire the infrastructure tag just yet. [18:23] ok, the OTHER bug tag [18:23] but not everything in the launchpad product infrastructure though [18:23] so much controversy!!! [18:23] mpt would like to retire the UI tag [18:23] so the need for the tag [18:23] i'm -1 on that [18:23] why? [18:23] how should we tag ui bugs then? [18:23] The "ui" tag was defined as "A bug that suggests the user interface is confusing or otherwise difficult to use" [18:24] looking at the bugs currently tagged with infrastructure, i'd say most of them shouldn't have that tag [18:24] right [18:24] But for whatever reason, people haven't used it that way [18:24] yeah, -1 on that unless we can come up with other tags to replace it [18:24] mpt: given that sense, it's not useful [18:24] flacoste, so you want to keep that tag? fine -- clean up your bugs :) [18:24] They've used it to refer to any bug that touches the UI [18:24] mpt: right [18:24] which is about 1/2 of them :-) [18:24] mpt, right. so why not add a new one called confusing-interface [18:24] or something like that? [18:24] mpt: I tend to use it to refer to bugs that are purely ui related [18:24] * flacoste too [18:24] * Rinchen three [18:24] The other reason is that I don't think anyone actually uses it. [18:25] * thumper uses it [18:25] I don [18:25] I do [18:25] well, I tag those [18:25] I don't mean uses it as in adds it [18:25] I mean actually uses it as in filters on it. [18:25] but they'd be more useful when bug #176437, is fixed [18:25] Launchpad bug 176437 in malone "Conditional searching with tags" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/176437 [18:25] I actually use it when I look at your workload mpt :-) [18:25] And I don't think that would change even if we changed its meaning. [18:26] it is nice to have a list of all UI based issues [18:26] Rinchen, many of the bugs tagged with UI are bugs I can't fix [18:26] that is true [18:26] many of those require help from Foundations [18:26] I like the idea of a confusing-user-interface tag (confusing-interface could refer to zope) [18:26] thumper, :) [18:27] I don't think it's useful to have a tag that could be applied to ~1/2 of all bug reports. [18:27] lol [18:27] thumper: Wouldn't confusing-framework refer to Zope? [18:27] I admit I would rather have a tag for accessibility/usability issues rather than a generic UI tag [18:27] I don't care if something is confusing or not, really. [18:28] Who would use (as in filter on) a tag for accessibility/usability issues? [18:28] we could use it to further identify bugs that needed to be addressed as part of the usability study for example [18:28] I would very much like to address those findings [18:28] I don't think that the sole use for a tag is to filter on them [18:29] They're listed on the wiki page [18:29] I look at the tags of a bug without filtering on them [18:29] and I think one or two of them have been fixed [18:29] I remind people of them in each State of Launchpad Usability report, but I'm not sure a tag would help [18:29] just my personal preference. I'm not attached to it either way [18:30] So thumper, matsubara, flacoste - you expressed concern retiring UI [18:30] if we are going to retire ui, I'd like a tag to refer to UI only bugs [18:30] or we could simply amend the UI tag's description [18:30] -1 on retiring, based on this discussion, and +1 for confusing-ui [18:30] as in bugs that can be fixed with browser/template code only [18:31] +1 for amending the description of the ui [18:31] thumper, what counts as "UI only"? Template only? Template + browser code only? Template + browser + interface code only? [18:31] template+browser [18:31] mpt: that's the discression of the bug triager [18:32] flacoste, thumper, matsubara - looking for +1 or -1 on the proposals from you [18:32] flacoste: like kiko said [18:32] Rinchen: ^^^ [18:32] -1 on retiring ui, +1 on ammending description of it [18:32] Rinchen: yeah, -1 on that unless we can come up with other tags to replace it [18:32] +1 on confusing-ui [18:32] ok, then [18:33] mpt: less than half our team bugs are confusing-ui [18:33] [AGREED] will not retire the UI tag but amend it's description [18:33] AGREED received: will not retire the UI tag but amend it's description [18:33] [AGREED] create a new tag called confusing-ui to take the place of the original intent of the UI tag [18:33] AGREED received: create a new tag called confusing-ui to take the place of the original intent of the UI tag [18:33] mpt, would you be so kind as to make those changes to the bug triage wiki page? [18:34] What should the new definition of "ui" be? [18:34] bugs with an ugly face [18:34] ok [18:35] mpt, be creative. [18:35] thank you mpt [18:35] [TOPIC] Operations report (mthaddon/herb) [18:35] New Topic: Operations report (mthaddon/herb) [18:35] 3/24 - Librarian restarted due to memory usage causing swapping on mizuho [18:35] 3/25 - Codebrowse restarted due to memory usage causing swapping on vostok [18:35] 3/26 - Codebrowse restarted due to process using 84% of system memory. [18:35] Staging will be updated after the items that are currently in the queue. [18:35] Production update targeted for 00:00 UTC. [18:36] herb, mthaddon - please don't forget to update the news blogs maint page. I tweaked it yesterday but please ensure it's the right time. [18:36] that's it from Tom and I unless there are questions. [18:36] herb, if you need access to it, ping me after the meeting. [18:36] Rinchen: will do [18:36] thanks [18:36] kiko, what's the story with the librarian leak? [18:36] kiko, I know you were looking into that with spiv [18:37] Rinchen, we are stumped. mthaddon patched the librarian and re-ran it and no change. :-( [18:37] fooey [18:37] wiki updated. [18:37] Rinchen, I don't have the cycles to chase this myself but can help somebody who can [18:37] wonder if we can setup an instance locally and valgrind it [18:37] i.e. flacoste who loves libby [18:37] it's not a valgrind issue [18:37] that's a crazy suggestion [18:37] I'm a crazy guy :-) [18:38] it's just a matter of doing some python investigation [18:38] mpt thanks [18:38] flacoste <3 libby [18:38] ... [18:38] kiko: yeah, i could it a shot [18:38] right then, thanks [18:38] flacoste, do you know the history behind this? [18:38] kiko: vaguely, we can discuss this later [18:38] yes, please call me [18:39] [ACTION] flacoste to take a stab at the librarian issues next week [18:39] ACTION received: flacoste to take a stab at the librarian issues next week [18:39] thanks flacoste [18:39] kiko, i'll call you tomorrow [18:39] [TOPIC] DBA report (stub) [18:39] New Topic: DBA report (stub) [18:39] Nothing to report. [18:39] sure thing [18:39] 2nd week in a row there stub [18:39] Anything for stub? [18:39] stub, what's going on with the PAS stuff? [18:40] Should be thankfull - we are getting to overtime :-) [18:40] person-auth-split IYDKWIM [18:40] Jamesh threw some spammers into the works so I've got three designs now. [18:40] wow, really? [18:41] Stuff that needs to be in the auth database and the lp database [18:41] grumble [18:41] stub, what's the next step? [18:42] Think hard about them, write opinions for and against and get feedback. [18:42] stub, you want to schedule that? [18:42] I've got the spec scheduled for this next cycle [18:42] erm... 1.2.4 [18:43] stub, meaning just the spec, or impl starting too? [18:43] Hopefully both. [18:43] okay, good. let's catch up again next week, week zero! [18:43] Just stop throwing spanners at me [18:43] thanks stub [18:43] [TOPIC] Sysadmin requests (Rinchen) [18:43] New Topic: Sysadmin requests (Rinchen) [18:43] the spammers are throwing themselves at us :-/ [18:43] (Rinchen, do we need to remind people that we are in "ubuntu freeze"?) [18:43] Hi! Is anyone blocked on an RT or have any that are becoming urgent? I'm tracking 1 overdue for Julian, 1 overdue for me, 1 for IS (apache), and 1 for kiko. The IS one is the only one making any progress. [18:44] the security apache thingy is important [18:44] kiko asked me to mention the one for mail capture on dogfood [18:44] that's the one I have :-) [18:45] cool [18:45] So I apologize that I've not been able to move these others along. [18:45] Scheduling with IS has been difficult lately [18:45] it's release month, understandable [18:45] as always, lots of stuff on their plate [18:45] indeed [18:46] kiko, I wasn't going to remind folks about stable... I think everyone knows. It doesn't seem to make much difference anyway since you, me, and Steve approve cherries [18:46] and we know [18:46] [TOPIC] New packages required (salgado) [18:46] New Topic: New packages required (salgado) [18:46] hold your horses, we're in stable [18:46] Rinchen, it's not just cherry-picks [18:47] it's also edge landings. [18:47] if any of the branches you're working on right now depends on any library which is not part of the launchpad-dependencies package, come talk to me ASAP. [18:47] be specially careful about what you land [18:47] I think pytz should end up in lp-dep [18:47] And lost from sourcecode [18:47] because if it annoys ubuntu, it will really annoy me [18:47] salgado: I will need the lexml2-utils package soon [18:47] stub, are we no longer updating it? [18:47] stub: once we move servers to hardy? [18:47] adeuring, you've filed the bug already? [18:48] kiko: There is no need to keep it updated if we use the Ubuntu one, as it uses the system libraries [18:48] salgado: yes [18:48] SteveA: sure [18:48] adeuring, can you define soon in the bug? [18:48] salgado: I'll add a comment [18:48] salgado, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/81082 [18:48] Launchpad bug 81082 in launchpad-dependencies ""Australia/Perth" time zone needs updating" [Medium,Confirmed] [18:49] Anything else for salgado? [18:49] no on-time ending for us today [18:49] [TOPIC] A top user-affecting issue (mrevell) [18:49] New Topic: A top user-affecting issue (mrevell) [18:49] This week's issue is pertinent to a week in which we're making a release :) [18:49] Throughout the month, we add new/changed functionality to Edge but we don't announce what the changes are. This prompted a question on launchpad-users a couple of days ago. [18:49] Edge is clearly marked as a beta environment. However, I wonder if: [18:50] a) there's an easy way (i.e. largely automated) to show beta testers what's changed over night on Edge [18:50] b) if that's something we would want to put time into, as we clearly mark Edge as beta and people know that it's a rapidly changing environment. [18:50] Cheers. [18:50] perhaps we could have an edge blog, where we add a couple of words for every new feature that makes it there? [18:50] well [18:51] the way I'd do that is somehow do a daily transport of commits to news [18:51] mrevell: what about a feed of the subjects of pqm landings that don't have !log? [18:51] we could strip [!log] from arch commits at the moment and just update that daily [18:51] which could then be used as the user-visible part of our release notes later, so it's not waster work. [18:51] Rinchen, barry: not really user-consumable [18:51]