[05:14] <tcpdumpgod> w00t
[05:15] <JonathanElli1> jrib: Hello
[05:15] <jrib> hi
[05:16] <JonathanElli1> Just waiting for reboot
[05:20] <JonathanElli1> Error message as follows: User's $Home/.dmrc file is being ignored. This prevents the default session and language from being saved. File should be owned by user and have 644 permissions. User's $HOME directory must be owned by user and not writable by other users.
[05:21] <jrib> JonathanElli1: hmmm, did you recursively change the permissions on your HOME?
[05:21] <JonathanElli1> I think this was the error previously. In future I will always write error messages down rather than trying to rely on my memory!
[05:23] <JonathanElli1> Erm. It was a few days ago but I think yes, because it seemed the "easy" (sorry, lazy! - please forgive a recent convert from windows) way to set permissions on all the files and directories beneath /home/username. With hindsight I guess I should have changed permissions on /home/username/*.* recursively instead
[05:23] <jrib> JonathanElli1: well you shouldn't have needed to change any
[05:24] <jrib> JonathanElli1: can you get to a terminal now?
[05:24] <JonathanElli1> Yes. All applications start and I have opened a terminal. Presumably I now need to chmod /home/jonathan 644. Is that right before I break it again?!
[05:25] <jrib> JonathanElli1: what does 'ls -ld ~/.dmrc' return?
[05:26] <JonathanElli1> -rw-rw-rw- 1 jonathan jonathan 28
[05:26] <nalioth> JonathanElli1: no
[05:26] <jrib> JonathanElli1: k, 'chmod 644 ~/.dmrc'
[05:26] <nalioth> JonathanElli1: if you recursively change _all_ the files under your homedir, you will create a brick.
[05:26] <JonathanElli1> I dont understand why my laptop, logged on as the same username and password couldnt access the files
[05:26] <nalioth> JonathanElli1: the permissions, that is
[05:27] <nalioth> sorry to interrupt, jrib, but i thought i'd throw that in
[05:27] <JonathanElli1> Yes. I already discovered that the hard way! Now we are trying to fix it
[05:27] <jrib> JonathanElli1: actually, my ~/.dmrc is 600, so do that instead
[05:27] <jrib> sure nalioth
[05:27] <nalioth> easiest way is to back up your stuff you want to keep and reinstall  :(    ( just my opinion )
[05:28]  * nalioth has done this  ( recursively chmodded himself )
[05:28] <JonathanElli1> What is the difference between 644 and 600, and please don't say 44 :-(
[05:28] <jrib> the 44 means read for group and others
[05:29] <jrib> "read privileges"
[05:29] <JonathanElli1> Nalioth. Backing up an entire hard drive strikes me as a lot harder than typing half a dozen commands into a terminal!
[05:29] <JonathanElli1> Especially when I couldnt start any applications to actually do the backup
[05:30] <jrib> nalioth: if he backs up the data in his home, it's going to retain the permissions anyway though, right?  I suppose he could delete all the dot files and let them be recreated
[05:30] <nalioth> JonathanElli1: not the whole drive
[05:30] <JonathanElli1> So 600 is rwx for u, 644 is rwx for u plus r for go, correct?
[05:31] <nalioth> jrib: i made myself a new user, actually
[05:31] <JonathanElli1> Why do I need to delete anything. Why cant we chmod them back to what they should be
[05:31] <jrib> JonathanElli1: when you recursively changed the permissions on your HOME, you performed an operation that is impossible to reverse.  It is as though I change all the letters "A" and "B" to "X" and then ask you to tell me what was "A" and what was "B" in the word "XXXXX"
[05:31] <nalioth> and transferred over the stuff i needed, as i needed it
[05:31] <JonathanElli1> OK
[05:31] <nalioth> JonathanElli1: because they are all different
[05:32] <nalioth> JonathanElli1: most are permissioned for you, but some the system has assigned specific perms
[05:32] <JonathanElli1> Yes, your answer came through just before I posted my question
[05:32] <jrib> JonathanElli1: your statement about 600 and 644 was correct
[05:33] <JonathanElli1> So why do you suggest 600 when the error message suggested 644?
[05:33] <jrib> JonathanElli1: on my system it is 600.  You can try both if you like.  Both will probably work
[05:34] <JonathanElli1> Hmm. No disrespect intended but I would prefer to do it by the book - ie 644
[05:34] <jrib> go for it
[05:34] <JonathanElli1> So I will do chmod 644 ~/.dmrc   Correct?
[05:34] <jrib> yes
[05:35] <JonathanElli1> By the way, can you remind me what ~ is and what the . prefix does?
[05:35] <jrib> ~ means /home/jonathan
[05:35] <jrib> . is part of the filename
[05:36] <JonathanElli1> Yes. There are lots of files prefixed .               They seem to be hidden. Does the dot make them hidden or designate them as system files?
[05:37] <nalioth> the dot designates a hidden file
[05:37] <nalioth> !cli
[05:37] <ubotu> The linux terminal or command-line interface is very powerful. Open a terminal via Applications -> Accessories -> Terminal (Gnome) or K-menu -> System -> Konsole (KDE).  Guide: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UsingTheTerminal
[05:38] <JonathanElli1> Thanks. OK. So now the permissions are -rw-r--r--
[05:40] <JonathanElli1> Now I think I need to create a new user and copy all my documents, music, videos etc to the new user. I guess this will mean that the new user profile (sorry for the windows speak - dont know the correct unix term yet) has correct permissions set for the essential files and directories?
[05:41] <JonathanElli1> Will I then be able to delete the buggered-up jonathan and rename the newuser to jonathan?
[05:41] <JonathanElli1> Or must I delete jonathan and recreate it and copy everything back again?
[05:43] <jrib> JonathanElli1: create new user, copy data, transfer ownership of data to new user, delete old user, rename new user.  Unfortunately I have to go now though
[05:43] <jrib> JonathanElli1: if you can live with a different username until someone else can help or you poke me tomorrow, you should be able to do steps 1-3 above
[05:44] <JonathanElli1> Thanks. I can probably manage 4 & 5 as well. Any idea why the laptop couldnt access the files even though it was logged in as the same user and pwd? Thats why I started the whole fiasco in the first place
[05:45] <jrib> JonathanElli1: permissions are determined by uid
[05:45] <jrib> a number
[05:45] <JonathanElli1> uid?
[05:45] <JonathanElli1> !uid
[05:45] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about uid - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[05:45] <jrib> JonathanElli1: type 'id' in your terminal
[05:46] <JonathanElli1> Both laptop and desktop show 1000 for jonathan
[05:46] <jrib> JonathanElli1: then it probably should have worked.  How did you copy them?
[05:46] <JonathanElli1> So it seems to me that it should have worked
[05:47] <JonathanElli1> Using file manager and navigating to //desktop/jonathan/blahblah
[05:47] <jrib> samba?
[05:47] <JonathanElli1> Or possibly ///desktop/jonathan/blahblah
[05:48] <JonathanElli1> No. I shouldnt need samba cos both machines are running ubuntu
[05:48] <jrib> how did you copy them?
[05:48] <jrib> or how are you accessing the other machine?
[05:48] <JonathanElli1> I dont want anything more to do with windows. By using drag and drop in file manager
[05:49] <JonathanElli1> The two machines are on the same subnet. I forgot to mention I mapped the ip address of the desktop to "desktop" in hosts on the laptop
[05:51] <JonathanElli1> But if you have to go, I can try to get to the bottom of that one another day since I have succesfully copied all the files I need to the laptop. I am very familar with windows networking but there are some peculiarities of ip in linux that I dont know yet
[05:51] <JonathanElli1> Thanks very very much for all your help
[05:51] <jrib> JonathanElli1: I don't see what happened right away.  You could always repose the question in #ubuntu.
[05:52] <jrib> no problem, good night
[05:52] <JonathanElli1> Goodnight - sorry morning
[05:52] <jrib> :)
[18:56] <visualdeception> are we still having our weekly meeting??
[19:03] <Heartsbane> I am planning on it
[19:03] <Heartsbane> I don't know where everyone else is
[19:03] <visualdeception> ok
[19:03] <visualdeception> i have seen zelut twittering, so I assume he is around somewhere
[19:04] <Heartsbane> anyone seen pleia2?
[19:09] <Heartsbane> visualdeception: guess we were the only two who remembered to show
[19:09] <visualdeception> nice
[19:10] <visualdeception> Zelut: ping
[19:10] <visualdeception> pleia2, ping
[19:11] <Heartsbane> visualdeception: next time we will set them a hiveminder
[19:11] <Heartsbane> :)
[19:11] <visualdeception> lol one got created yesterday
[19:11] <pleia2> hey
[19:11] <visualdeception> i was just going through the tasks
[19:11] <Heartsbane> pleia2: hey 2 U
[19:12] <visualdeception> hey pleia2 how goes it
[19:13] <pleia2> it goes
[19:13] <Heartsbane> visualdeception: what did you get as purposed slogans because I saw one on the mailing list that was good
[19:14] <visualdeception> i think the only ones were on the mailing list....
[19:14] <visualdeception> if we can get a consensus on one I'll work on getting it finished up/cleaned up
[19:15] <Heartsbane> I liked Ubuntu Classroom - Learn something new every day, or ubuntu classroom - tweak it yourself
[19:16] <visualdeception> ok
[19:17] <visualdeception> any other feedback?
[19:17] <Heartsbane> That is just me, maybe take all the submissions and put them in a list send it out the group since many of them are not here
[19:18] <visualdeception> http://linux.dudenhofer.net/ubuntuclassroom.png
[19:18] <visualdeception> there is the base image
[19:18] <pleia2> I like the "learn something new every day" one too - not overly fond of the "tweak" one since I think it comes off as a bit nerdy
[19:19] <visualdeception> ok, i think I can handle that
[19:19] <Heartsbane> I guess we make a quorum 3 votes for 'learn something new everyday'
[19:19] <visualdeception> lol
[19:20] <Heartsbane> pleia2: any word from Belinda Lopez?
[19:20] <pleia2> Heartsbane: nope :\
[19:20] <Heartsbane> I take it also no word from Jono either?
[19:21] <Heartsbane> most likely because of LUG Radio Live?
[19:21] <pleia2> possibly, they're both there
[19:21] <Heartsbane> who is going? I am planning on going
[19:21] <pleia2> I did get a note from one of the UOW organizers though, he sent out a call for sessions to all of us who had done them in the past
[19:22] <Heartsbane> nice, so I would imagine there is some progress there
[19:22] <pleia2> I forwarded the email to Zelut in case he wanted to follow up, but ..
[19:23] <Heartsbane> What did you mean 'they're both there'?
[19:23] <Heartsbane> ya but ...
[19:23] <pleia2> Jono and Dinda are both involved with LUG Radio Live
[19:23] <pleia2> "We've begun planning the next Ubuntu Open Week. Right now we have
[19:23] <pleia2> April 28 to May 3rd penciled in as the dates."
[19:23] <Heartsbane> Oh I didn't know Dinda was involved
[19:24] <visualdeception> do we know who is handling open week?
[19:25] <pleia2> Jorge Castro is the one who sent out the email
[19:25] <pleia2> I don't know him
[19:26] <Zelut> sorry, had to tend to the baby
[19:26] <Zelut> I know Jorge.. I can talk to him
[19:26] <Heartsbane> Isn't that Jono's counterpart/assistant to Jono
[19:26] <Zelut> Heartsbane: yeah
[19:26] <Heartsbane> sorry Community Manager...
[19:28] <Heartsbane> okay I guess that brings us to Classroom Guidelines, has anyone read this lately other than me?
[19:29] <visualdeception> link?
[19:29] <Heartsbane> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom/Guidelines
[19:30] <Heartsbane> I was going to start there, but the only interested in feeback about what still should apply was RyanC
[19:30] <pleia2> I don't like the GUI & CLI requirement
[19:31] <Heartsbane> really because?
[19:31] <pleia2> people tend to do one or the other, not always easy to find an expert in both or two experts who are available and willing at the same time
[19:32] <Heartsbane> I can understand that
[19:32] <visualdeception> and since we are starting over again, we will probably be recruiting people to teach rather than waiting on volunteers
[19:33]  * pleia2 nods
[19:34] <pleia2> I think in general the guidelines were there back in the day for the off chance that someone did volunteer and wanted some instructions (there was a fair amount of recruiting and in house teaching then too)
[19:35] <Heartsbane> other than that, anyone feel that anything needs to be changed
[19:36] <pleia2> I think we might consider changing the 1.2 section at some point - but leave modifying that until we have some experience as to what works
[19:36] <pleia2> 1.2.1 that is
[19:37] <Heartsbane> in what way, are you saying that +m to the channel probably won't be necessary, or atleast at the start?
[19:38] <pleia2> yeah, or the way of asking questions could be loosened up somehow
[19:39] <Heartsbane> okay
[19:39] <pleia2> UOW tends not to set +m unless requested, and then the lesson people can always /msg the ops to change channel settings if things get out of hand, or they want freer conversation
[19:40] <Heartsbane> Usually every UOW I have seen is +m, but we will see how it goes
[19:40] <Heartsbane> okay I will make those adjustments, as well as work on incooperating it nicely into the front page, show it off next meeting :)
[19:40] <visualdeception> cool
[19:41] <Heartsbane> Lets go back to Logo/Slogan review for a second since we have 1 more now
[19:41] <Heartsbane> is Christer still out there?
[19:43] <Heartsbane> guess not, visualdeception lets just go with 'learn something new everyday'
[19:43] <Heartsbane> make a submission to the mailing list so everyone can have their input
[19:43] <Heartsbane> that would be my suggestion
[19:43] <visualdeception> i can handle that
[19:44] <Heartsbane> give it a week, and then if that idea floats, we sail on it
[19:44] <pleia2> sounds good
[19:44] <visualdeception> ok
[19:45] <Heartsbane> I guy RyanC is still working a blootbot/mootbot/waytomanykindabots solution
[19:46] <Heartsbane> we have a blootbot variant in my LoCo channel and I love it
[19:46] <pleia2> solution for?
[19:46] <Heartsbane> factoids, editing 's/soltion/solutions/g'/reminders
[19:47] <Heartsbane> I don't know, I was hoping to hear more about the idea
[19:48] <pleia2> ok
[19:48] <Heartsbane> pleia2: it was coded by Tim Riker, a Debian Dev
[19:48] <Heartsbane> I know you are still use Debian or so I have read
[19:49] <pleia2> yeah, and I'm a package maintainer
[19:49] <Heartsbane> I don't know if you know his name
[19:49] <pleia2> what does the bot do in your loco channel exactly?
[19:49] <Heartsbane> onjoin reminders, factoids, logging, editting typos
[19:50] <pleia2> I see
[19:50] <Heartsbane> that is all I have ever seen it do, I just want to hear RyanC ideas about what he wanted to do with it
[19:50]  * pleia2 nods
[19:51] <Heartsbane> so I guess that is still postponed
[19:51] <Heartsbane> Last item, has anyone contacted anyone to present other than US Teams
[19:52] <Zelut> i have not
[19:52] <Zelut> looks like i lost connection for 10min in there.  I'm going to have to get the logs later :(
[19:54] <Heartsbane> any ideas? desktop? gasp? exaile? KDE? any thoughts?
[19:54] <pleia2> I think the Bug Squashing Team would be particularly open to giving classes
[19:55] <Heartsbane> maybe a idea by First Week in April ... really cause I would really like that
[19:57] <Heartsbane> Anyone want to handle that?
[19:58] <pleia2> what, coming up with ideas on what teams to contact?
[19:59] <Heartsbane> Yes, or contacting some teams because eventually we are going to have to contact someone, because I don't think they are going to contact us
[20:04] <Heartsbane> Well I guess I will type this up, and post it tonight
[20:04] <Heartsbane> later
[20:04] <pleia2> thanks Heartsbane
[20:04] <visualdeception> thanks!