[00:00] <kirkland> slangasek: which is why i glimmered to life when I saw you and lamont discussing the possibility that dund might be coming back!  :-P
[00:00] <slangasek> aoh, here's some info though: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-users/2007-December/007933.html
[00:01] <slangasek> not *encouraging* info, it basically says "use dbus-send", but...
[00:05] <kirkland> slangasek: nice, "successively calling dbus-send...and parsing its output"
[00:07] <kirkland> slangasek: hrm, perhaps someone should write a "daemon" to do that?  oh wait!  :-)
[00:09] <slangasek> kirkland: well, the python dbus bindings are certainly a saner choice than dbus-send... :)
[00:11] <kirkland> slangasek: about like writing a webserver in awk, though isn't it?  :-P
[00:12] <slangasek> hrm?
[00:12] <slangasek> surely you're not comparing python to awk? :)
[00:12] <kirkland> slangasek: never.  i was comparing the dbus-send hack to writing a webserver in awk.  it can be done, but......
[00:13] <slangasek> ah, yes
[00:16] <kirkland> slangasek: awk is more like a tire iron.   there bigger, better, faster, prettier, tools in the shed, but in the right situation, it'll get you out of a jam.
[00:22] <slangasek> kirkland: "awk is more like a tire iron.  If you find yourself faced with someone wielding it, back away slowly."
[00:23] <kirkland> slangasek: i'd agree with that one too ;-)
[00:24] <kirkland> slangasek: i suppose you could "hit them with a pipe" and "grep it away from them" ?
[00:24] <slangasek> haha
[00:25] <kirkland> nerd humor gone too far
[00:27] <slangasek> no, nerd humor gone too far would be "sed plerumque sequitur ocassio calvata"
[00:28] <slangasek> or "occasio calvata", if I could spell today
[00:42] <verb3k> Are there plans to upgrade Transmission to the latest release? it fixes many problems
[00:42] <verb3k> http://www.transmissionbt.com/
[00:43] <alex-weej> asac: still up?
[00:43] <verb3k> It has smaller memory footprint
[00:44] <pochu> verb3k: don't think so, too late and it adds new features
[00:44] <pochu> jdong: ^
[00:45] <jdong> see bug 208836
[00:45] <verb3k> pochu, but it also fixes many many problems, we will need this during the 3 year timespan
[00:46] <verb3k> + lower footprint
[00:47] <jdong> please read the bug report
[00:47] <verb3k> ok
[00:47] <jdong> so far I am planning , with Charles, to isolate the bugfix patches to 1.06
[00:47] <jdong> we will hold off on the new features of 1.10 for now
[00:47] <lamont>  Warning: Color name "'#400040'" is not defined
[00:47] <lamont> stupid uxterm
[00:47] <verb3k> I see
[00:48] <jdong> transmissions's also one of those things that I backport within a week of a new release, so that's where Hardy users can go for newer versions
[00:48] <jdong> but at this stage IMO it's too big of a risk to upgrade the default torrent client to a UI-changed version.
[00:52] <verb3k> jdong, I see, I think I agree now :)
[00:52] <jdong> verb3k: alright, cool :)
[00:52] <verb3k> jdong, as long as there will be backports I am cool :)
[00:52] <jdong> verb3k: I promise there will be backports :)
[00:52] <verb3k> thanks for your time jdong  :)
[00:53] <jdong> of course
[01:04] <ScottK> Oh sure.  He applies and then runs off.
[01:04]  * mneptok does the Deluge dance
[01:06] <RAOF> mneptok: Is that the one where the UI blocks all the time, and the blocklist plugin crashes it? :P
[01:06] <mneptok> RAOF: not in my experience.
[01:08] <RAOF> I could be using the wrong plugins, of course.
[01:08] <mneptok> generally you'd want to use Deluge plugins with Deluge. *shrug*
[01:08] <mneptok> >:)
[01:10] <emgent> heya people
[01:10] <RAOF> Right, yes :P
[01:25] <nabcore> Can I use apt to upgrade my current gutsy 7.10 to the hardy 8.04 beta?
[01:27] <nabcore> it's an old test laptop; I've got the desktop 8.04 beta, but it cannot use that since it's not powerful enough and I don't have resources to burn another CD
[01:28] <ion_> Use do-release-upgrade, and now please read the topic.
[01:59] <theunixgeek>  How can I call various arguments for a callback? here's the declaration: void command (GtkWidget *joliet, GtkWidget *rock, GtkWidget *verbose, GtkWidget *volid_entry, GtkWidget *input_entry, GtkWidget *output_entry); and I'm pretty sure this won't work: g_signal_connect (G_OBJECT (make_button), "clicked", G_CALLBACK (command), (gpointer) joliet, (gpointer) rock_ridge, (gpointer) verbose, (gpointer) volid_entry, (gpointer) in
[02:00] <Nafallo> theunixgeek: wrong channel
[02:00] <RAOF> theunixgeek: /topic.  This channel is not for development *on* Ubuntu :)
[02:00] <theunixgeek> oh
[02:00] <theunixgeek> never mind :)
[05:12] <keescook> jdong: *rofl*
[05:13] <jdong> keescook: lol you saw it too :)
[05:13] <keescook> you totally had me for like 10 seconds.  multiple layer of "wtf" before I remembered the time.
[05:14] <keescook> http://lkml.org/lkml/2008/3/31/367
[05:16] <StevenK> Twitch
[05:16] <StevenK> Perhaps they should have said OpenBSD and Theo is going to be a co-admin
[05:25] <lamont> StevenK: did you see scrollback re: bluez-utils?  I wantses my dund back... or a writeup of how to get palm net-over-bt without it...
[05:28] <lamont> StevenK: and I'm wondering if maybe dund isn't in the current dbus-hackery or such?  what about the other util binaries that got dropped, I wonder?
[05:31] <StevenK> lamont: I saw it, but I'm not sure about it
[05:32] <lamont> I'm pretty sure that it's the only thing keeping my secondary work surface on gutsy
[05:32] <StevenK> So a binary has been dropped between gutsy and hardy?
[05:33] <lamont> 3 of them
[05:33] <ion_> jdong: Saw what? URL please. :-)
[05:33] <lamont> see the diff in dpkg --contents between the two bluez-utils debs
[05:34] <StevenK> lamont: Where is that output?
[05:34] <lamont> StevenK: and comments in the bug about how maybe at least part of that is intentional
[05:35] <StevenK> lamont: I've been distracted with $WORK for the better part of four hours since, what's the bug number?
[05:35] <jdong> ion_: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-April/thread.html
[05:35] <jdong> ion_: see if you spot anything wrong
[05:35] <lamont>  dpkg --contents bluez-utils_3.19-0ubuntu3_i386.deb | grep /bin/
[05:35] <lamont> drwxr-xr-x root/root         0 2007-10-03 02:55 ./usr/bin/
[05:35] <lamont> -rwxr-xr-x root/root     10716 2007-10-03 02:55 ./usr/bin/ciptool
[05:35] <lamont> -rwxr-xr-x root/root     20204 2007-10-03 02:55 ./usr/bin/dund
[05:35] <lamont> -rwxr-xr-x root/root     39864 2007-10-03 02:55 ./usr/bin/hcitool
[05:35] <lamont> -rwxr-xr-x root/root     32680 2007-10-03 02:55 ./usr/bin/hidd
[05:35] <lamont> -rwxr-xr-x root/root      6904 2007-10-03 02:55 ./usr/bin/l2ping
[05:35] <lamont> -rwxr-xr-x root/root     20620 2007-10-03 02:55 ./usr/bin/pand
[05:35] <lamont> -rwxr-xr-x root/root     26784 2007-10-03 02:55 ./usr/bin/passkey-agent
[05:35] <lamont> -rwxr-xr-x root/root     26848 2007-10-03 02:55 ./usr/bin/rfcomm
[05:35] <lamont> -rwxr-xr-x root/root     62936 2007-10-03 02:55 ./usr/bin/sdptool
[05:35] <lamont> -mix 780 : dpkg --contents bluez-utils_3.26-0ubuntu3_i386.deb | grep /bin/
[05:35] <lamont> drwxr-xr-x root/root         0 2008-02-14 18:07 ./usr/bin/
[05:35] <lamont> -rwxr-xr-x root/root     10620 2008-02-14 18:07 ./usr/bin/ciptool
[05:35] <lamont> -rwxr-xr-x root/root     39864 2008-02-14 18:07 ./usr/bin/hcitool
[05:35] <lamont> -rwxr-xr-x root/root      6844 2008-02-14 18:07 ./usr/bin/l2ping
[05:35] <lamont> -rwxr-xr-x root/root     26848 2008-02-14 18:07 ./usr/bin/rfcomm
[05:35] <lamont> -rwxr-xr-x root/root     62520 2008-02-14 18:07 ./usr/bin/sdptool
[05:35] <StevenK> Argh. Pastebin!
[05:36] <lamont> sorry - it looked shorter
[05:36] <jdong> tha'ts what she said.
[05:36]  * StevenK belts jdong
[05:36] <Fujitsu> Yes, yes it is.
[05:37] <StevenK> lamont: So, dund, hidd, and pand are missing?
[05:37] <lamont> and there are corresponding --enable-foo entries in configure that weren't there before...
[05:37] <ion_> jdong: Haha! (the email)
[05:37] <lamont> OTOH, there are comments about having dbus integration for at least some parts of it...
[05:43] <StevenK> lamont: You think we need a few --enable's scattered around, and the extra files installed?
[05:43] <lamont> well, I can't see how to get dund otherwise... not so sure about hidd
[05:44] <lamont> hidd and pand seem to maybe just possibly have dbus ducttape
[05:47] <TheMuso> But that doesn't help those who may need such daemons on a system where there is no GUI, and no dbus...
[05:50] <StevenK> lamont: Are you able to play, or were you hoping I would just fix it?
[05:50] <lamont> I can play - I just wanted to give you the opportunity to say "hell no, not that way" :-)
[05:51] <lamont> and then there's the question of whether we want to restore all of those binaries, just dund, or somewhere in between...
[05:53] <lamont> and then there's the little tidbit that I'm going to hit bed in about 3 minutes...
[05:54] <StevenK> lamont: I have no idea about bluetooth
[05:54] <lamont> heh.  you gonna use my old argument of "I just upload bits??" :-)
[05:55] <StevenK> lamont: Works for me. :-)
[05:57] <lamont> ok.  so you think I should just enable all the binaries - and people can sort out dbus vs helper binaries at their leisure?
[05:57] <lamont> anyway, I'll upload something in about 16 hours or so. :-)
[05:58] <lamont> or maybe sooner, depends on how my day looks before core-hours tomorrow
[05:58]  * lamont -> sleep
[06:24] <calc> http://live.gnome.org/GnomeGoals/XDGConfigFolders <- Rock!
[06:25] <ion_> calc: Awesome.
[06:26] <calc> now just get .bashrc into there and it will be complete ;-)
[06:26] <ion_> "if the user choose a default preference, this preference should not be saved anywhere and the corresponding entry in the config file should be empty" ♥
[06:27] <ion_> calc: I have a ~/.config/shellrc, which is sourced by both .bashrc and .zshrc. :-) The .<shell>rcs still contain shell-specific stuff, but .config/shellrc contains everything that works in both shells.
[06:31] <ion_> Slightly relevant to the quote i pasted, i've been thinking of hacking together a script that goes through your gconf settings and deletes every personal setting that matches with the system setting.
[06:31] <RAOF> calc: Wheee!!!!  Yay, that'd be cool.
[06:37] <calc> i just submitted the upstream bug for OOo
[06:37] <calc> it will likely take a few centuries for them to fix that one ;-)
[06:42] <Fujitsu> Isn't getting to OOo to work, not look like it has been hit by a train, and be quick, a little more important?
[06:47] <Amaranth> Yes, I'd much rather have it look like a GNOME app instead of a Windows app with a gtk-like theme :)
[07:12] <pitti> Good morning
[07:25] <calc> Amaranth: changing the functionality of it though would end up making it hard for users to transition from Windows to Linux, but the look is going to improve some with the new font display patch
[07:25]  * calc bbl, bedtime
[07:54] <dholbach> good morning
[07:56] <pitti> keescook: ah, thanks for fixing PK (bug 205037); did you forward it upstream?
[07:59] <pitti> cjwatson: do you know why d-i in bug 193696 was marked 'invalid'? it's obviously still an issue
[08:16] <\sh> Mithrandir: congrats to your new job...but hopefully you stay with ubuntu :)
[08:18] <Mithrandir> \sh: thanks, and yes, I will
[08:55] <warp10> Good morning
[08:56] <Fujitsu> mvo: Around?
[09:02] <mvo> Fujitsu: yes, hello
[09:02] <Fujitsu> mvo: Hi. You're only running upgrade tests for main, aren't you?
[09:03] <mvo> Fujitsu: mostly yes, universe is just so big. currently I have a test running with gutsy universe, but it takes quite a long time to finish. are you interessted in running some of this too?
[09:05] <Fujitsu> mvo: It is unfortunate that it's so large :(
[09:05] <Fujitsu> But yes, I poked you to ask how I could help.
[09:06] <Fujitsu> We rebuilt universe and multiverse in 5 days, I'm sure we can manage upgrade testing in only a few times that interval.
[09:08] <ogra_cmpc> oh, jdong finally uploaded automatix to the archive
[09:09] <ogra_cmpc> cool :)
[09:10] <bryce> wasn't automatix just declared as dead?
[09:11] <ogra_cmpc> bryce, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-April/003510.html
[09:12] <ogra_cmpc> bryce, morning btw
[09:12] <mvo> Fujitsu: ok, sounds cool!
[09:12] <bryce> morning
[09:12] <mvo> Fujitsu: do you have access to a machine that supports kvm?
[09:12] <bryce> huh, well whatever, guess I'm confused
[09:12] <Fujitsu> mvo: Said machine is currently running Xen. Probably can't run both at the same time :(
[09:19] <slangasek> Seveas: I've subscribed you to bug #209429 (the tzdata issue from the other day) because you indicated you were able to reproduce the problem; I'm having trouble reproducing it, and am hoping you can help me narrow it down
[09:22] <mvo> Fujitsu: right, xen is fine for semi-manual testing.
[09:27] <slomo> slangasek: hi :) may i update swfdec, swfdec-gnome and swfdec-mozilla? all in universe, no other rdeps except these three... swfdec-gnome is part of gnome 2.22 and needs swfdec0.6 (we currently have 0.5, soname change)... if we get these two we require new swfdec-mozilla too because the old version doesn't work with the new swfdec0.6
[09:28] <slomo> slangasek: what do you think? if you need more information just ask :)
[09:29] <slangasek> slomo: if you're asking for a freeze exception, you need to talk to motu-release
[09:29] <slomo> slangasek: which makes things much more complicated... *sigh* ok, thanks
[09:31] <dholbach> slomo: the bug is filed already and was approved AFAIK
[09:31] <slomo> dholbach: thanks, i'll search for it
[09:31] <dholbach> slomo: bug 202468
[09:33] <james_w> can someone confirm that in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ca-certificates/+bug/153625/comments/29 we are not using "ubuntu" in the version as we don't need to worry about auto-syncs?
[09:35] <slangasek> james_w: I think that may have been an oversight on pitti's part
[09:36] <james_w> so I need to prepare them as normal, but make sure that there is an upgrade path between all releases?
[09:37] <james_w> (including maintainer update?)
[09:38] <slangasek> make sure that the version numbers for each upload sort correctly wrt the releases, yes
[09:38] <slangasek> (perhaps pitti did mean what he said, I don't know; but I don't see any reason that SRUs would be exempt from the DebianMaintainerSpec)
[09:41] <james_w> I shall wait for his return, there's plenty of time while I create all my chroots anyway.
[09:54] <lool> cjwatson: Hmm that Xsettings for the IM in Gtk+ never worked, right?
[09:55] <ogra_cmpc> bryce, still around ?
[09:55] <seb128> lool: do you understand the change sent to the bts?
[10:00] <lool> seb128: Yeah, the backport was incorrect
[10:00] <lool> I thought these were some codes, but these are actually offsets
[10:00] <seb128> ok
[10:02] <seb128> lool: btw about the glib upload, did you commit your changes to debian?
[10:03] <lool> AFAIK yes, did I miss any?
[10:03] <lool> I don't see anything pending in my SVN checkout
[10:57] <Riddell> mvo: want me to approve release-upgrader-apt?
[10:57] <Riddell> and -dpkg?
[10:58] <mvo> Riddell: from when are those?
[10:59] <Riddell>   456636 | S- | release-upgrader-apt | 0.7.9ubuntu1         | 12 days
[10:59] <Riddell>          | * release-upgrader-apt/0.7.9ubuntu1 Component: main Section: debian-installer
[11:01] <mvo> Riddell: please do, much appreciated
[11:02] <Riddell> mvo: ok.  also update-manager 0.81.3 has been stuck in gutsy unapproved for 5 weeks I believe to wait for 0.81.2 to move from -proposed to -updates, is that in progress?
[11:03] <mvo> Riddell: sort of, I need to nag bdmurray again I think
[11:04] <Riddell> mvo: he added a comment to bug 172609 a while ago
[11:04] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 172609 in update-manager "mishandles prerequists-sources.list on ports architectures" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172609
[11:08] <asac> soren: as part of the server team i wonder if you have a working samba setup :)?
[11:14] <Fjodor> Sorry if this seems like a support question, but I just want to know if what I see is expected behaviour or not... I have replaced 2 old dvd drives with a single new one, and the symlink to the device is now /dev/dvd1 (and dvdrw1, cdrom1 and cdrw1). Is this to be expected, or shouldn't it rather be dvd, dvdrw, cdrom and cdrw, now that there is now only a single one of those types of drives?
[11:15] <james_w> Fjodor: that's expected behaviour. hotplugging means that you can't know there will only ever be one.
[11:16] <soren> asac: I have samba installed, and I haven't noticed it not working... But it's not something I use on daily basis (or even a monthly basis). What's up?
[11:16] <asac> soren: :)
[11:16] <Fjodor> james_w: Ok, thanks. I personal opinion would be, then, that it should be /dev/dvd0 then, shouldn't it?
[11:16] <asac> soren: you are my tester then ;) ... bug 134082
[11:16] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 134082 in network-manager "[gutsy][fiesty] network-mannager should restart samba if ip-address is changed." [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/134082
[11:16] <james_w> Fjodor: I don't know about that.
[11:17] <asac> soren: does that happen?
[11:17] <asac> soren: otherwise we might wanna try to ship a restart script in /etc/NetworkManager/dispatcher.d/
[11:17] <asac> soren: what do you think?
[11:19] <Fjodor> james_w: Ok. Thanks for your answer ;-)
[11:20] <soren> asac: Restartin samba unconditionally seems icky. Won't a SIGHUP do the trick?
[11:20] <asac> soren: you are much more in samba land than i am :)
[11:20] <asac> (i guess)
[11:21]  * soren tries to act innocent
[11:21] <pitti> slangasek, james_w: right, that indeed was a typo; of course it should be ubuntu0.6.06 etc.
[11:21] <asac> soren: you think we can come up with a script for dispatcher.d?
[11:22] <asac> soren: how can me make samba behave correctly when changing the IP?
[11:22] <pitti> james_w: do you want to prepare the SRUs, or shall I help you with them?
[11:23] <soren> asac: Well, I'm hoping a SIGHUP (or smbcontrol reload-config) will make samba figure out that it's got a new IP.
[11:23] <asac> soren: so only call SIGHUP on start) :?
[11:23] <asac> and do nothing on stop?
[11:23]  * ogra_cmpc thinks smbcontrol reload-config sounds way cleaner ... leave it to the tool to care 
[11:24] <asac> well s/start/up/ s/stop/down/
[11:24] <james_w> pitti: I'm happy to do it, I have all the chroots now, I might just have a couple of questions along the way.
[11:24] <soren> asac: Yeah, when stopping, I think it figures it out on its own.
[11:24] <pitti> james_w: right, I'll gladly help you with anything you encounter
[11:24] <asac> soren: but thats strange
[11:24] <james_w> pitti: so for dapper it would be 20050804-0ubuntu0.6.06 ?
[11:24] <asac> soren: well not
[11:25] <james_w> pitti: given that dapper currently has 20050804
[11:25] <pitti> james_w: exactly
[11:25] <james_w> great, thanks.
[11:25] <pitti> james_w: -0ubuntu6.06 would work, too, but for hysterical raisins we usually use 0ubuntu0.6.06
[11:25] <asac> soren: so you say that samba recognizes the down, but then doesn't get to know about he "up" ?
[11:25] <asac> soren: would reload-config the right thing then?
[11:26] <pitti> james_w: so that the next 'regular' ubuntu upload (ubuntu1) would be greater
[11:26] <soren> asac: Well, in the down case, it notices that the network has gone away. In the up case (in the bug), it's just a matter of the IP changing.
[11:26] <soren> asac: It's worth a try.
[11:26] <soren> asac: I've not tried it. It's just a guess.
[11:26] <soren> asac: (and haven't looked at code either)
[11:26] <soren> asac: I can take a quick peek at the code, when I'm back from lunch.
[11:27] <james_w> pitti: the bug referenced as an example on the SRU page also includes .changes, are those required? It also mentions something about the changelog mentioning approval.
[11:28] <pitti> james_w: the debdiff is enough for review
[11:28] <pitti> james_w: the .dsc, .diff.gz, and source.changes are the bits that actually get uploaded, but they can be generated from the debdiff
[11:28] <pitti> james_w: well, since the changelog is part of the debdiff, it needs approval, too, right
[11:29] <pitti> james_w: I'm picky about it because a lot of users read stable changelogs in update-manager
[11:29] <pitti> james_w: so " * Fix bug (LP: #1234)" isn't helpful at all
[11:29] <james_w> pitti: but the text of the changelog doesn't need to specify that the SRU is approved or anything?
[11:29] <pitti> james_w: no; it should be a human-readable text which points out the impact, some technical details, and the bug #
[11:30] <pitti> james_w: sth like " * Do not mark variable names ad translatable. This fixes certificates under Brazilian Portugese locales (LP: #1234)"
[11:31] <pitti> i. e. properly describe the bug (for users), the solution (for developers), and the bug# (for tracking)
[11:31] <james_w> ok, great. Thanks
[11:34] <asac> soren: you could use /etc/NetworkManager/dispatcher.d/01ifupdown as a template if you want to give it a quick shot.
[11:42] <ogra_cmpc> asac, btw, we were advised to use the suspend.d and resume.d dirs for that in gutsy (for dhcpd), is it better to use /etc/NetworkManager/dispatcher.d/ here ?
[11:42]  * ogra_cmpc notes that the dhcpd patch should be updated to use pm-utils though
[11:42] <ogra_cmpc> soren, are you the dhcpd guy now ? ^^^
[11:43] <asac> ogra_cmpc: why suspend and resume if i want up and down handling?
[11:43] <ogra_cmpc> hmm, indeed
[11:43] <asac> i am confused :/
[11:43] <ogra_cmpc> dhcpd is unlikely to be used on dynamic devices :)
[11:44] <asac> ogra_cmpc: who knows. i am sure that someone complained that dhcpd doesn't work well with network-manager :)
[11:44] <ogra_cmpc> heh
[11:45] <ogra_cmpc> sorry, i didnt think that far, i thought they could be related but dhcpd is indeed different
[11:45] <ogra_cmpc> still though, the patch needs updating
[11:45] <asac> not sure ... maybe it should be restarted as well when network manager downs and ups interfaces :)
[11:46] <ogra_cmpc> well, dhcpd should be run on dynamic interfaces at all imho
[11:47] <ogra_cmpc> *shouldnt
[11:47] <asac> how do prevent that?
[11:47] <ogra_cmpc> by not tieing dhcpd start/stop to NM but to pm-tools :)
[11:48] <ogra_cmpc> dhcpd will start if it finds an interface with an IP range iot knows from its own config
[11:48] <ogra_cmpc> it wont start at all if thats not the case
[11:48] <ogra_cmpc> so NM doesnt matter for it here
[11:49] <soren> ogra_cmpc: I don't think so, no.
[11:49] <ogra_cmpc> soren, i just saw it was handed to the server team recently here in teh channel, but forgot to whom
[11:51] <ogra_cmpc> might have been mathiaz
[11:51]  * soren has lost track of the amount of things he's supposed to handle :)
[12:11] <james_w> pitti: I think the original fix may have been too simplistic, do we need to provide an upgrade path from broken versions that does something for pt_BR users?
[12:12] <james_w> currently they still won't get any enabled, as they are all marked to ignore.
[12:12] <james_w> is there a way we can detect if they were hit by the bug? We don't know what locale was used originally do we?
[12:15] <cjwatson> pitti: because the bug was filed elsewhere, and in any case was never a d-i bug
[12:15] <cjwatson> pitti: Steve's comment is correct
[12:15] <cjwatson> pitti: there were two different bugs conflated into one
[12:33] <scobby> hi all
[12:34] <scobby> why you dont fix that errors in /usr/bin/compiz for the path !! the path is /usr/local/bin/compiz. but the right path would be /usr/bin/compiz.real !!
[12:35] <scobby> i have already hardy installed and this basic bug is annoying
[12:38] <pitti> james_w: indeed, there should be a transition path; maybe detect if the file sizes are 0?
[12:40] <james_w> pitti: that's probably the safest, it would be bad for anyone that had chosen to enable no certificates
[12:40] <pitti> james_w: hm, if someone dpkg-reconfigure'd the package and chose not to use any certificate, it would be empty as well?
[12:41] <pitti> james_w: if we need to take debconf values into account, then IMHO a 'forced reconfigure' on upgrade should work?
[12:41] <seb128> scobby: what bug is that? do you have a launchpad bug number?
[12:42] <scobby> i dont know but its only a minor bug. the path is wrong. the right path is /usr/bin and there is /usr/local/bin. and the libary path is wrong too, and the compiz bin path
[12:42] <scobby> every time i update compiz or reinstall i have to change these path to /usr/bin
[12:43] <seb128> scobby: where is the wrong path used?
[12:43] <soren> scobby: Where to you change that path?
[12:43] <james_w> pitti: I'm unable to actually get debconf to ask me in the pbuilder chroot, I haven't yet worked out why
[12:43] <scobby> wrong path in /usr/bin/compiz
[12:44] <james_w> pitti: but a forced reconfigure wouldn't work for pt_BR I think, as they are all marked as rejected and so filtered out from the list that would be shown
[12:46] <scobby> you see the wrong pathes in the compiz wrapper?
[12:46] <scobby> any dev should repair that. but btw some people report it is working with that wrong path. but not for my 2 pcs
[12:47] <soren> I see them, but I'm deeply surprised. compiz works just fine here.
[12:47] <james_w> scobby: is there a bug in the bugtracker?
[12:47] <scobby> you are one of them
[12:47] <scobby> james_w: didnt search
[12:47] <seb128> what wrong path is used?
[12:48] <soren> seb128: The first variable set is COMPIZ_BIN_PATH
[12:48] <scobby> wrong: /usr/local/bin  right: /usr/bin  same with COMPIZ_NAME="compiz"  but COMPIZ_NAME="compiz.real" is right
[12:48] <seb128> Amaranth, mvo: around? ^
[12:49] <soren> seb128: The final line that ends up calling compiz starts with $COMPIZ_BIN_PATH. Running it with sh -x clearly says /usr/bin/compiz.real, though.
[12:50] <soren> Ah. /etc/xdg/compiz/compiz-manager has the answer.
[12:50] <soren> scobby: Do you have that file?
[12:51] <scobby> i have similar files
[12:51] <scobby> scobby@laptop:~$ nano /etc/xdg/compiz/compiz-manager.
[12:51] <scobby> compiz-manager.bak              compiz-manager.ubuntu           compiz-manager.ubuntu.dpkg-new
[12:51] <scobby> compiz-manager.dpkg-dist        compiz-manager.ubuntu.bak
[12:51] <scobby> but the pathes are wrong or i am wrong?
[12:51] <Hobbsee> greetings
[12:52] <james_w> that looks like fallout from some conffile updates
[12:52] <seb128> scobby: the path are sent in /etc/xdg/compiz/compiz-manager
[12:52] <seb128> s/sent/set
[12:52] <seb128> hey Hobbsee
[12:52] <soren> The paths in /usr/bin/compiz is (as you've seen) /usr/local/bin. However, we override that in a configuration file, which you seem to have chosen to remove.
[12:52] <soren> (or at least rename)
[12:53] <scobby> hmmm sucks. maybe in /usr/bin/compiz should be the right path from the beginning
[12:53] <seb128> scobby: would need Amaranth or mvo to comment, but it seems to be the upstream version there and the ubuntu changes in /etc/xdg/compiz/compiz-manager
[12:53] <seb128> scobby: why did you remove the correct configuration?
[12:54] <scobby> i never removed that config. and i didnt know that there is also a config hidden ;-)
[12:55] <mvo> scobby: as seb128 said, we use the compiz-manager wrapper that comes from upstream and use the config to customize it to our needs
[12:55] <scobby> i think some people have that problems and the best solution would be to set the right path in /usr/bin/compiz and dont hope for a correct use of n /etc/xdg/compiz/compiz-manager
[12:55] <seb128> scobby: if you didn't do that you used some broken tool which did it for you
[12:55] <scobby> since i can think i always have to edit that /usr/bin/compiz
[12:56] <scobby> and with hardy i have also to comment out that new laptop check for radeon ......
[12:57] <seb128> scobby: restore /etc/xdg/compiz/compiz-manager and you will have no need to do those changes
[12:57] <scobby> ok i try it
[12:59] <scobby> but the laptop check has to be removed for me to, btw i dont understand why my laptop should not use compiz??
[12:59] <scobby> ok i renamed that compiz-manager and now it works
[13:00] <scobby> but this is not a good solution
[13:00] <pitti> james_w: you might need dpkg-reconfigure debconf first
[13:00] <pitti> james_w: hm, too bad; ah, right, the bug was in debconf itself, not in the evaluation of the debconf DB
[13:01] <james_w> pitti: dpkg-reconfigure debconf does nothing either
[13:01] <james_w> even with -plow -freadline
[13:02] <Hobbsee> \sh: i did, then persia reinstated it.  Don't mention the lack of power of the MC and such
[13:02] <cjwatson> pitti: sorry, lacking context, which bug in debconf?
[13:03] <pitti> cjwatson: sorry, bad expression; I mean "the bug was in ca-certificate's debconf templates itself"
[13:03] <cjwatson> ah
[13:03] <pitti> cjwatson: not in the debconf package
[13:03] <pitti> james_w: hm, weird
[13:05] <james_w> http://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/2003/09/msg00047.html
[13:05] <james_w> it appears I can't do it within the chroot
[13:07] <ogra_cmpc_> james_w, you can do fiddly things with the passthrough frontend and work through a filedescriptor that you can access from outside the chroot then i think
[13:07] <pitti> Riddell: nice one on u-archive@!
[13:08] <james_w> pitti: I think we can do it with a forced reconfigure, so that the only annoyance will be an extra question for non pt_BR users.
[13:09] <james_w> ogra_cmpc_: I'd be happy with the readline frontend, so let's hope it doesn't come to that
[13:09] <pitti> james_w: hm, extra question for affected users is ok (pt_BR), but not for the unaffected users?
[13:11] <james_w> pitti: so, forced reconfigure if the file is empty, and just cope with annoying those few users who deactivated all certificates?
[13:12] <pitti> james_w: that sounds good
[13:12] <james_w> pitti: I'll try and come up with that then
[13:12] <ogra_cmpc_> pitti, is there an easy way to prevent translations to be ripped out of a package ?
[13:12] <james_w> pitti: we should put the improved fix in hardy as well?
[13:13] <pitti> james_w: indeed, and please let's have it uploaded to hardy first
[13:13] <pitti> ogra_cmpc_: export NO_PKG_MANGLE=1 in debian/rules
[13:13] <ogra_cmpc_> thanks :)
[13:13] <pitti> ogra_cmpc_: that will also suppress pkgmaintainermangler, though
[13:13] <pitti> ogra_cmpc_: and prevent LP import
[13:14] <pitti> ogra_cmpc_: why do you want to do that?
[13:14] <ogra_cmpc_> seems we got a patch for ldm to make it translateable
[13:14] <ogra_cmpc_> pitti, i dont need lang\packs in ltsp chroots ... the only thing exposed to the user is the ldm gui
[13:14] <james_w> pitti: sure.
[13:14] <ogra_cmpc_> so i'd like to keep the translations in ldm to save size
[13:15] <ogra_cmpc_> (instead of installing the whole translation set)
[13:15] <pitti> ogra_cmpc_: I see; that currently means that you need to use LP manually for translations
[13:15] <pitti> ogra_cmpc_: yeah, makes sense
[13:48] <calugor> haha I need to download more than the size of the CD to upgrade to 8.04
[13:48] <calugor> 900mb :/
[13:49] <Hobbsee> calugor: got a lot of stuff that's not on the cd installed?
[13:50] <calugor> yeah
[13:50] <calugor> but I thought they were the latest :P
[14:02] <cjwatson> soren: is it intentional that kvm seems to do no work when it doesn't have X input focus?
[14:02] <soren> cjwatson: Um.. No :)
[14:02] <cjwatson> actually, that's not quite true - when it isn't on the current virtual desktop
[14:02] <cjwatson> it's rather inconvenient not to be able to just leave a test running and go and do something else
[14:02] <soren> cjwatson: Execution is halted?
[14:03] <soren> cjwatson: With the sdl frontend?
[14:03] <cjwatson> I'm running 'sudo kvm -hda ~/desktop.img -cdrom hardy-desktop-i386.iso -boot d -m 512'
[14:03] <cjwatson> so whatever is the default I guess
[14:03] <cjwatson> when I switch desktops, activity in my system monitor applet drops to zero
[14:04] <cjwatson> but, interestingly, only if kvm had focus before I switched desktops
[14:04] <cjwatson> if I alt-tab and then switch desktops, activity continues
[14:04] <soren> When running like that, you don't need sudo.
[14:04] <soren> Just access to /dev/kvm.
[14:04] <cjwatson> ok, but does that matter?
[14:04] <soren> Nono, not at all.
[14:04] <soren> I'm just saying.
[14:04] <cjwatson> I'll add myself to the kvm group, then
[14:04] <ogra_cmpc_> but it might expose something
[14:05] <soren> cjwatson: I can't seem to reproduce it..
[14:06] <cjwatson> I noticed the same thing last night
[14:06] <cjwatson> (but didn't nail it down quite as much)
[14:06] <soren> Are you using compiz?
[14:06] <cjwatson> no
[14:07] <ogra_cmpc_> X bug ?
[14:16] <cjwatson> Spads: do you have a minute to help me debug bug 210200?
[14:17] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 210200 in cdrom-detect "cdrom-detect fails for HP DL145 in hardy beta" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210200
[14:32] <jono> quick q - is the updated theme still in hardy - so when I click on Places, it has a brown border on the left?
[14:32] <jono> after my upgrade that theme doesnt seem to be there
[14:33] <\sh> Hobbsee: I just wanted to know..a bit surprising ;)
[14:33] <soren> cjwatson: Wow. I've reproduced it. Extraordinary.
[14:33] <Hobbsee> jono: you should switch to kubuntu.
[14:33] <jono> heh
[14:35] <cjwatson> soren: glad it's not just me
[14:36] <soren> cjwatson: You switch virtual desktops with ctrl-alt-arrow keys, right?
[14:36] <soren> Or did you trigger it some other way?
[14:36] <mvo> Riddell: I did another upload of release-upgrader-apt that should make pkgstriptranslations happy, would be cool if you could accept it
[14:37] <soren> ctrl-alt tells kvm (qemu, actually) to grab input focus. When you switch to a different virtual desktop, I'm guessing it can't finish grabbing input, so it gets stuck.
[14:41] <cjwatson> soren: ctrl-alt-arrow, yes
[14:42] <soren> qemu does it, too.
[14:43] <Riddelll> mvo: ok
[14:43] <mvo> rock, thanks riddell
[14:44] <davmor3> soren: in qemu at least there is  the option to change the key for grabbing.  I think it's in prefs if memory servers
[14:44] <soren> davmor3: prefs?
[14:45] <davmor3> preferences
[14:45] <soren> What preferences?
[14:47] <davmor3> soren: sorry that might be part of qemu launcher the gtk app for setting up qemu
[14:47] <soren> The key combo to do it seems to be #define'd in the code.
[14:50] <cjwatson> davmor3: I'm not bothered about changing the key for grabbing, I'm fine with it being ctrl-alt; I just occasionally have to press ctrl-alt twice, that's all
[14:51] <soren> davmor3: Maybe you're thinking of the alternate grab code? (ctrl-alt-shift)
[14:52] <soren> davmor3: You don't seem to be able to specify arbitrary ones.
[14:52] <soren> But yeah, at any rate, this is a bug.
[14:54] <davmor3> soren: could be
[14:56]  * Hobbsee erks
[14:57] <Hobbsee> haven't been thru the u-d moderation quuee in a while, obviously
[14:57] <Hydrant> hey all, quick question... how do I add libs to ld.so.conf under Ubuntu ?  I added a new .conf file in the ld.so.conf.d dir, but it doesn't get picked up
[14:57] <Hydrant> I did an ldconfig after
[15:09] <pitti> dholbach: argh, you assigned sponsoring of bug 205854 to me, but I cannot push into https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-art-pkg/usplash-theme-ubuntu/ubuntu
[15:09] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 205854 in usplash-theme-ubuntu "Progress bar flickers during redraw" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/205854
[15:09] <pitti> dholbach: BTW, the source should get Vcs-Bzr: for debcheckout love
[15:10] <pitti> dholbach: oh, and the branch is horribly out of date, too (from feisty)
[15:12] <TomaszD> carlos, hi, could you take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/seahorse/+bug/188859 , as this is a prevalent problem even after the latest langpack update
[15:12] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 188859 in seahorse "Italian translation of seahorse is missing" [Low,New]
[15:12] <TomaszD> Polish translation is missing as well
[15:12] <TomaszD> something ain't right
[15:17] <TomaszD> also, someone ( dholbach ? :] ) really needs to look at this simple patch-and-go https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/brasero/+bug/200532
[15:17] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 200532 in brasero "Brasero doesn't utilize .desktop translations from Rosetta" [Low,Confirmed]
[15:17] <TomaszD> these two issues really mess up the translation state
[15:17] <carlos> TomaszD: do you have /usr/share/locale-langpack/it/LC_MESSAGES/seahorse.mo file?
[15:18] <TomaszD> pl, not it, but yes, I do have it carlos
[15:18] <TomaszD> heh, pun not intended
[15:18] <carlos> TomaszD: hmm, yeah, sorry
[15:19] <carlos> TomaszD: I do have the es.po file too and it shows translated here
[15:19] <TomaszD> carlos, there's just the desktop file that is translated and one string during authorization that says something about an app taking an action
[15:19] <TomaszD> that's it
[15:19] <TomaszD> the whole interface is in English, apart from this
[15:20] <TomaszD> and I see the translation status for seahorse in Polish is 100% imported a long time ago
[15:20] <TomaszD> so it must be in the langpack I'm using
[15:23] <carlos> TomaszD: could you execute 'msgunfmt /usr/share/locale-langpack/pl/LC_MESSAGES/seahorse.mo|grep msgid|wc -l' ?
[15:24] <carlos> that should give you the number of messages translated from language packs
[15:24] <TomaszD> the result is: 751
[15:24] <carlos> that means it's fully translated
[15:24] <carlos> well, except two strings
[15:24] <carlos> in Spanish I get 751 files
[15:24] <carlos> in Spanish I get 751 translations
[15:25] <TomaszD> carlos, in Rosetta it says:
[15:25] <TomaszD> Statistics
[15:25] <TomaszD> Messages: 758
[15:25] <TomaszD> To do: 0
[15:25] <carlos> TomaszD: do you have this other file? /usr/share/locale/pl/LC_MESSAGES/seahorse.mo ?
[15:26] <TomaszD> carlos, no such file
[15:26] <TomaszD> only in locale-langpack
[15:28] <carlos> then I don't have an answer for you. You have the translations and nothing is overriding it
[15:28]  * carlos installs the Polish lang pack
[15:29] <TomaszD> hurray for carlos !
[15:29] <TomaszD> ;]
[15:31] <cjwatson> keescook: I've changed openssh in my CVS repository to have a proper CVE reference for bug 210175, FYI
[15:31] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 210175 in openssh "[openssh] [CVE-2008-1483] allows local users to hijack forwarded X connections" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210175
[15:31] <carlos> TomaszD: it works here...
[15:32] <TomaszD> carlos, oh shit... I meant policykit-gnome, I'm really sorry
[15:32] <carlos> TomaszD: at least I don't see English strings neither Spanish strings but something I don't understand when I execute LC_ALL=pl_PL.UTF-8 seahorse
[15:32] <carlos> TomaszD: ;-)
[15:32] <carlos> ook
[15:32] <TomaszD> try that
[15:33] <TomaszD> it's Upoważnienia in the menu
[15:33] <TomaszD> why oh why was I thinking this was seahorse, damn
[15:33] <TomaszD> ok, anyway
[15:34] <TomaszD> I see that in launchpad the translation isn't imported
[15:34] <TomaszD> "2008-02-29" last update
[15:37] <TomaszD> lol, carlos I reported the problem a month ago already https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/policykit-gnome/+bug/199029
[15:37] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 199029 in policykit-gnome ".pot file isn't regenerated on build time or another template problem" [Undecided,New]
[15:37] <dholbach> pitti: sorry, I didn't know the package was out of date, etc - I'm not an admin of the team, so I can't help with it
[15:38] <pitti> dholbach: I just uploaded it now, since the branch was already out of date
[15:38] <dholbach> pitti: right-o
[15:38] <TomaszD> and then there's this problem https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/policykit-gnome/+bug/200092
[15:38] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 200092 in policykit-gnome "Untranslatable string in policykit authentication dialog box" [Undecided,New]
[15:38] <lamont> slangasek: btw, the bottom of https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bluez-utils appears to be mostly-dups of the "you changed bluez-utils to not work" collection :-)
[15:43] <carlos> TomaszD: the first one is fixed
[15:43] <carlos> TomaszD: about the second one... I cannot do anything about it...
[15:43] <carlos> however, I think that's a duplicate
[15:43] <TomaszD> carlos, yeah well it wasn't exactly fixed, did you try opening policykit-gnome with Polish locale?
[15:44] <seb128> what is the issue?
[15:44] <carlos> TomaszD: yeah, I get it untranslated too
[15:44] <carlos> seb128: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/policykit-gnome/+bug/200092 is a duplicate of https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/policykit-gnome/+bug/199255
[15:44] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 200092 in policykit-gnome "Untranslatable string in policykit authentication dialog box" [Undecided,New]
[15:45] <carlos> at least that's what it seems to be
[15:45] <seb128> pitti: shouldn't this tool be masked from the menus? is it useful to any standard user?
[15:45] <carlos> seb128: I'm not sure whether it may help you to fix it, but with strace, the policykit-gnome programs try to open message.mo file to get translations from
[15:46] <TomaszD> I too think that policykit-gnome in the menu is not a good idea
[15:46] <carlos> seb128: well, one of the missing translations is the one about the auth dialog when you try to increase your privileges
[15:46] <TomaszD> yeah, just fix that, hide the menu entry and it'll be fine
[15:46] <carlos> so that's still an issue, even that other application is removed from the menu
[15:47]  * carlos -> back to the translations sprint....
[15:48] <seb128> carlos: enjoy ;-)
[15:50] <pitti> seb128: it's quite an expert tool, indeed
[15:51] <pitti> it would be best if this was a separate package which we wouldn't install by default
[16:07] <jeromeg> can somebody upload something for me in gutsy-proposed ?
[16:10] <jeromeg> the bug is bug 156432
[16:10] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 156432 in zim "Zim freeze when create a link" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156432
[16:10] <jeromeg> i attached a debdiff and it was approved by a member of motu-sru
[16:41] <keescook> pitti: yes, oops, forgot to link it.
[16:41] <keescook> cjwatson: ah, great, thanks.
[16:46] <nxvl> cjwatson: i already fix Bug #210175
[16:46] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 210175 in openssh "[openssh] [CVE-2008-1483] allows local users to hijack forwarded X connections" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210175
[16:46] <nxvl> cjwatson: can you please take a look
[16:47] <pitti> keescook: good morning
[16:47] <pitti> keescook: thanks
[16:47] <keescook> pitti: hi!  :)
[16:51] <james_w> pitti: hi. http://paste.ubuntu.com/6327/ is my new propsed fix for hardy
[16:51] <james_w> it checks if they are upgrading from a broken version and the file is empty, and if so offers a list of all certificates
[16:52] <james_w> however the user must still select them all if they want them, which is a pain
[16:54] <pitti> james_w: the version comparison looks a bit weird
[16:54] <james_w> yeah, that might be my lack of shell scripting knowledge showing
[16:54] <pitti> james_w: shouldn't a version for $release just compare against lt-nl fixed_version_in_$release?
[16:55] <pitti> instead of each release testing versions from all other releases?
[16:55] <pitti> james_w: right, IMHO you should pre-set the choices to enable all of them in debconf
[16:55] <pitti> james_w: in particular, all choices which get enabled by default if you install the package from scratch
[16:56] <pitti> I wonder if there is a much easier way to trigger that?
[16:56] <james_w> I'm trying to take care of the upgrade path, so that if they install a fixed version and then reject all certificates they will not be prompted each time they upgrade a release.
[16:57] <pitti> james_w: also, $cur_version is the old version in many cases, I think, not the one you are upgrading to
[16:57] <pitti> because debconf often runs before preinst (ICBW, though)
[16:57] <james_w> yes, that's what I want to use
[16:58] <pitti> but 'eq'? shouldn't you need 'ge' then, which would again ruin the comparison?
[16:58] <pitti> if we'll get another version into any release, it'll fail again, no?
[16:58] <james_w> it will break if there are any more updates to stable releases, yes
[16:58] <cjwatson> nxvl: uh, *I* already fixed it ... ;-)
[16:59] <cjwatson> nxvl: oh, dapper-gutsy. Please talk with Kees
[17:00] <cjwatson> nxvl: your patches look fine, but you should include the CVE ID in the changelogs
[17:00] <pitti> james_w: hm, without knowing the package in detail: wouldn't it suffice to check the 'seen' flags?
[17:00] <pitti> james_w: if seen is true, don't touch configuration; otherwise (seen is false), behave like installing from scratch
[17:01] <pitti> shouldn't that be much more robust and less code?
[17:02] <nxvl> cjwatson: yes, i meant dapper-gutsy patches i saw that it was already fixed on hardy
[17:03] <cjwatson> nxvl: right, sorry, I was confused by the way you used the word "already"
[17:04] <nxvl> cjwatson: np, so keescook is the one which need to take a look?
[17:04] <cjwatson> or one of the other security team members, yes
[17:05] <nxvl> ok thnx
[17:06] <james_w> pitti: yes, you may be right, let me try that.
[17:07] <pitti> james_w: *crossing fingers*
[17:16] <SEJeff> jcastro, ping
[17:21] <mvo> hm, "loadkeys de" seems to not work anymore in hardy, is that replaced with something different?
[17:22]  * mvo takes that back
[17:22] <cjwatson> it should do ... I thought I fixed that in hardy
[17:22] <cjwatson> it didn't work in edgy-gutsy
[17:23] <mvo> I'm confused now, it says loading /usr/share/keymaps/de.map.bz2 but that direcotry is empty :) - but it works
[17:23] <mvo> (in hardy that is)
[17:24] <cjwatson> the message lies, it actually runs ckbcomp behind the scenes
[17:24] <mvo> heh :) ok, thanks
[17:27] <mathiaz> mvo: is there a way to tell do-release-upgrade to use a local deb repository during the upgrade ?
[17:28] <mathiaz> mvo: I'm trying to test a new version of the samba package to fix an upgrade problem
[17:30] <mvo> mathiaz: yes, but its a bit complicated currently and requires some manual hacking unfortunately
[17:30] <mathiaz> mvo: ok - I'll use apt-get dist-upgrade then
[17:30] <james_w> pitti: it works: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6329/
[17:30] <james_w> at least for the pt_BR case
[17:31] <pitti> james_w: hm, that looks better, but isn't exactly what I meant
[17:31] <james_w> ah, ok
[17:31] <pitti> james_w: I thought if seen is false, then the question should stay 'low', and it shuold Just Happen
[17:32] <mvo> mathiaz: in automatic upgrade  testing mode its simpler, but you need a kvm capable machine for this
[17:32] <pitti> james_w: i. e. if the question is seen=false, we can assume that the user never dpkg-reconfigured it
[17:32] <pitti> (right?)
[17:32] <mathiaz> mvo: I do have such hardware !
[17:32] <pitti> james_w: and thus clean up automatically; and if it's seen=true, we don't do anything, since it is manually configured
[17:32] <james_w> well, I think the problem is the even if the user did the values are not stored correctly in pt_BR
[17:32] <pitti> james_w: would that work?
[17:32] <pitti> james_w: ah, I see
[17:33] <james_w> I don't know if in the default case seen=false
[17:33] <mario_limonciell> asac, I've been wondering, why does NetworkManager spam /var/log/syslog in it's own nonstandard format rather than it's own log file?
[17:33] <pitti> james_w: ok, in this case we should set the priority to critical if locale is pt_BR only
[17:34] <james_w> pitti: the current locale?
[17:34] <TomaszD> carlos, sorry to bother you again, but where in lp can I find the template for this /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/locales/index-pl_PL.html page (welcome page of firefox). dpkg -S doesn't return any package for this.
[17:35] <carlos> TomaszD: if it's in Launchpad, it should be ubuntu-docs because is the only documentation that we translate using Launchpad
[17:35] <pitti> james_w: I jsut installed ca-certificates from scratch, and the debconf questios  do not have the seen flag
[17:35] <asac> mario_limonciell: i think its planned upstream for 0.7
[17:35] <jwendell> hi, seb128. is gdm broken? console-kit, or something?
[17:35] <carlos> TomaszD: better check with mdke
[17:35] <mario_limonciell> asac, ah okay very good
[17:35] <pitti> james_w: yeah, that should be good enough IMHO
[17:36] <TomaszD> mdke, hi, where in lp can I find the template for this /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/locales/index-pl_PL.html page (welcome page of firefox). dpkg -S doesn't return any package for this.
[17:36] <pitti> james_w: (you can check it in /var/cache/debconf/config.dat, you know that?)
[17:36] <james_w> pitti: you mean peek in to the file to see the current values?
[17:36] <pitti> james_w: right, and the seen flags
[17:37] <pitti> james_w: so: "unseen" -> behave like fresh installation, i.e. enable defaults without asking; "seen" and pt_BR: raise prio to critical; "seen" and != pt_BR: do nothing
[17:37] <pitti> james_w: ^ is that correct?
[17:38] <pitti> james_w: and all wrapped into a dpkg --compare-versions "$cur_version" lt-nl "fixed_version_in_this_release"
[17:38] <pitti> james_w: maintainer scripts need to be idempotent anyway, so the code must work if run twice
[17:39] <pitti> so, relying on 'eq' comparison is dangerous IMHO
[17:43] <james_w> pitti: looking in the confid.dat it seems that all the information is there somehow, so perhaps it's possible to rescue this properly
[17:48] <pitti> james_w: what do you think about the three cases I stated above?
[17:49] <james_w> pitti: I think that's sensible.
[17:54] <evand> We need to put something in the provider field in Add / Remove programs for Wubi.  Would the Ubuntu Foundation be the most appropriate option, or would "Ubuntu Community" or "Canonical Ltd." be preferred.
[17:54] <evand> err publisher, not provider
[17:58] <jcastro> SEJeff: pong
[17:58] <cody-somerville> Is there any easy way to see if adding a package to the seeds will pull in other packages not already pulled in?
[17:59] <cjwatson> james_w: use FGET rather than looking in /var/cache/debconf/config.dat by hand
[17:59] <cjwatson> cody-somerville: you can run germinate locally and diff the output
[18:00] <jwendell> Is GDM broken? https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/210335
[18:01] <seb128> jwendell: re, not that I know
[18:01]  * seb128 opens the bug
[18:02] <seb128> jwendell: that bugs says nothing about gdm apparently
[18:02] <jwendell> seb128, yes, I know, but this is the only clue I have
[18:02] <seb128> how "broken" is it and since when?
[18:02] <seb128> gdm didn't change for a while
[18:03] <seb128> nor did consolekit
[18:03] <cjwatson> evand: Ubuntu Foundation wouldn't be appropriate really, and Canonical doesn't feel appropriate since it's largely not written by us. Perhaps just "Ubuntu"?
[18:03] <jwendell> seb128, GDM starts, I see the brown background, but it doesn't show the faces, the cursor is the 'wait' (circle)
[18:03] <cjwatson> evand: (provided that this isn't a statement of copyright)
[18:03] <evand> cjwatson: yeah, agreed.  Ok, thanks.
[18:03] <jwendell> seb128, maybe usplash? there was an update of it...
[18:03] <seb128> jwendell: try to downgrade or boot without usplash
[18:04] <cjwatson> the usplash update is a no-op if you have a configured /etc/usplash.conf
[18:04] <evand> cjwatson: in which case it would be Canonical?
[18:04] <seb128> jwendell: since when do you have the issue, did you try to reboot?
[18:04] <seb128> jwendell: what else did you upgrade?
[18:04] <cjwatson> evand: no, that would be incorrect
[18:04] <jwendell> seb128, yep, twice
[18:04] <cjwatson> evand: we didn't write most of it and it's legally very dodgy indeed to claim copyright on something you didn't write (or pay for)
[18:04] <seb128> jwendell: maybe try booting without usplash if you want to make sure
[18:05] <jwendell> seb128, ok, will try now
[18:05] <evand> ah, point taken
[18:05] <ogra_cmpc_> evand, doesnt wubi have a copyright file you can pull that out from ?
[18:05] <cjwatson> evand: the copyright holders are the actual legal entities who wrote the code - so Ago et al, and Canonical Ltd. for our contributions
[18:05] <cjwatson> evand: but IIRC the provider field is not a statement of copyright so this is moot
[18:06] <evand> ok, thanks
[18:09] <jwendell> seb128, same thing :(
[18:10] <seb128> jwendell: what did you upgrade since it was working?
[18:10] <jwendell> seb128, it's not usplash
[18:10] <jwendell> seb128, let me see
[18:11] <seb128> jwendell: you can look to /var/log/dpkg.log
[18:11] <cody-somerville> cjwatson, Can I use --seed-packages option to do what I want?
[18:14] <jwendell> seb128, gnome-system-tools, gtk2-engines-ubuntulooks, gnome-icon-theme, apport, launchpad-integration, policy-kit, network-manager, console-setup, pulseaudio
[18:14] <jwendell> seb128, I mean, I just upgraded all packages available today...
[18:15] <seb128> I didn't upgrade yet
[18:15] <seb128> cjwatson: could the console-setup changes create issues?
[18:16] <seb128> jwendell: I don't see something which could create issues there
[18:16] <jwendell> :'(
[18:21] <lool> Heh #20276
[18:22] <seb128> bug #20276
[18:22] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 20276 in gtk+2.0 "CAL shows dates 5 - 14 october 1582 -  but they do not exist." [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/20276
[18:24] <slangasek> haha
[18:26] <cjwatson> cody-somerville: yeah, I guess, though I'd just edit a local branch of the seeds and point it at that
[18:27] <cjwatson> seb128: shouldn't think so ...
[18:27] <cody-somerville> cjwatson, thats what I've ended up doing
[18:32] <warp10> Hi all
[18:32] <pitti> hey warp10
[18:32] <lool> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tv.elisa.general/428
[18:33] <lool> elisa team moves to bzr and launchpad
[18:33] <pitti> warp10: congratulations to your ubuntu-dev badge! *hug*
[18:33] <pitti> lool: ooh! not an April's fool, I hope? :)
[18:34] <warp10> hi pitti, thank you! :) /me hugs back
[18:34] <lool> pitti: Ah you're too quick :)
[18:35] <pitti> lool: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~elisa-developers/elisa/trunk doesn't look like a joke, though :)
[18:36] <lool> pitti: Well I'm checking
[18:36] <pitti> if it was a joke, the email wouldn't be funny at all, too
[18:36] <lool> pitti: It didn't sound very funny, but then you have to be careful
[18:36] <lool> Yeah
[18:38] <ForzaPalermo> hey guys any luck getting system-config-samba working in heron?
[18:38] <seb128> what is system-config-samba?
[18:38] <ForzaPalermo> gui for samba
[18:39] <ForzaPalermo> for idiots lik eme that cant configure it properly
[18:39] <seb128> what is wrong with nautilus-share?
[18:39] <jwendell> seb128, gdmgreeter eats 100% cpu...
[18:39] <jwendell> seb128, any clue?
[18:39] <seb128> no
[18:39] <ForzaPalermo> never herad of that
[18:40] <seb128> attach gdb to ir and look at the stacktrace
[18:40] <ForzaPalermo> im runinning kubuntu
[18:40] <seb128> ah, dunno about kubuntu
[18:40] <seb128> jwendell: or strace it
[18:40] <mathiaz> slangasek: I've attached a debdiff to bug 201059
[18:40] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 201059 in samba "conffile prompt on latest upgrade in hardy" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/201059
[18:41] <mathiaz> slangasek: could you have a look at it ?
[18:44] <slangasek> mathiaz: it'll take me a bit, but I will look at it, thanks
[18:45] <mathiaz> slangasek: great ! thanks
[19:04] <mdke> carlos: have replied to TomaszD in #ubuntu-doc, but for the record, the file is included in the ubuntu-docs source package, but not in rosetta - translations are done manually
[19:05] <mdke> carlos: unless you know a reliable html<->po toolchain?
[19:10] <cjwatson> mdke: have you tried po4a?
[19:10] <cjwatson> assuming xhtml
[19:12] <cjwatson> that's odd, the web site has http://po4a.alioth.debian.org/man/man3pm/Locale::Po4a::Html.3pm.php, but I don't see that module in the package
[19:12] <mdke> cjwatson: no, will look into it. I don't think it is strict xhtml though
[19:13] <cjwatson> still there in CVS too
[19:14] <cjwatson> ah, "It also contains additional modules which are being considered, but are not of a sufficient quality."
[19:16] <cjwatson> so maybe grab it from :pserver:anonymous@cvs.alioth.debian.org:/cvsroot/po4a and try it out
[19:16] <mdke> will do, thanks for the suggestion
[19:22] <slangasek> james_w: mime-support uploaded, thank you for your contribution to Ubuntu :-)
[19:24] <jwendell> seb128, I guess it was latest human-icon-theme
[19:24] <jwendell> seb128, I switched gdm theme from face browser to normal and it worked
[19:24] <jwendell> seb128, how can I download human-icon-theme 0.25?
[19:29] <jwendell> seb128, I'm going to download 0.24 and do the downgrade
[19:32] <james_w> slangasek: thanks.
[19:33] <jwendell> seb128, no way...
[19:33] <seb128> jwendell: ?
[19:34] <seb128> jwendell: I doubt the icon theme will create such issues
[19:34] <jwendell> seb128, I thought it was human-icon-theme's fault
[19:34] <jwendell> seb128, face browser is broken
[19:35] <jwendell> I'll try another face browser theme
[19:37] <jwendell> seb128, yep, it worked... somehow ubuntu humanlist theme is broken
[19:38] <seb128> jwendell: ah, you don't use the default theme
[19:39] <jwendell> seb128, isn't it default? ubuntu with face browser?
[19:40] <seb128> no
[19:40] <seb128> the default is human
[19:40] <seb128> no face browser
[19:40] <jwendell> seb128, ok then
[19:40] <jwendell> :(
[19:45] <Hydrant> calc: hey
[19:46] <Hydrant> calc: do you know where I can get the SDK out of OO's downloads?  All I find is .exe files for anything prior to 2.4
[19:47] <slangasek> mathiaz: oh, interesting heuristic indeed :)
[19:47] <slangasek> mathiaz: was there no difference between the edgy and feisty configs?
[19:51] <slangasek> mathiaz: otherwise - confirmed, and I look forward to dropping ALL of this code again for intrepid :)
[20:25] <calc> Hydrant: nope
[20:30] <pitti> keescook: why is bug 210175 an SRU? shouldn't it be an USN?
[20:30] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 210175 in openssh "[openssh] [CVE-2008-1483] allows local users to hijack forwarded X connections" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210175
[20:33] <keescook> pitti: right, it shouldn't be an SRU.
[20:33] <keescook> odd, I didn't sub u-sru
[20:33] <keescook> pitti: can you please unsub that?
[20:34] <slangasek> Seveas: looks like the timezone bug is reproducible with an edgy install but not with a feisty install; following through
[20:34] <pitti> keescook: sure, thanks
[20:34] <Seveas> slangasek, strangely enough, my feisty install also doesn't have the file
[20:36] <slangasek> Seveas: right, that confused me; but if I can reproduce it with edgy I at least have a starting point.
[20:36] <slangasek> er, oh
[20:36] <slangasek> no, /etc/timezone does get created during the install, eventually :/
[20:36] <slangasek> so it's still not reproducible for me, mutter grumble
[20:38] <Seveas> slangasek, which timezone are you picking?
[20:39] <slangasek> mathiaz: btw, if you'd like me to do that samba upload, I have another fix I could roll in (bug #206036)
[20:39] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 206036 in samba "package samba 3.0.28a-0ubuntu3 failed to install/upgrade: " [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/206036
[20:40] <slangasek> Seveas: America/Los_Angeles; is there another you'd like me to try?
[20:40] <Seveas> mine are both Europe/Amsterdam
[20:40] <slangasek> ok, will try that
[20:40] <Seveas> could be that cjwatson hates the dutch
[20:41] <slangasek> then afterwards I'll try upgrading edgy->feisty->gutsy->hardy
[20:41] <slangasek> you said your systems were installed as edgy/feisty; how far have they been upgraded?
[20:41] <Seveas> incrementally to hardy
[20:42] <slangasek> ok
[20:43] <cjwatson> what timezone bug?
[20:43] <cjwatson> (since I got highlighted ...)
[20:44] <slangasek> cjwatson: bug #209429
[20:44] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 209429 in tzdata "/etc/localtime bitrots" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/209429
[20:44] <slangasek> basically, lifeless reported that /etc/timezone was missing, so he wasn't getting updated timezone data
[20:46] <cjwatson> slangasek: I suggest asking for /var/log/installer/syslog to see if anything went wrong during instal
[20:46] <cjwatson> l
[20:46] <cjwatson> it could be that ubiquity didn't finish but he went ahead anyway, for example
[20:46] <cjwatson> sometimes the system can still be mostly usable
[20:46] <slangasek> Seveas: you still have /var/log/installer/syslog to hand?
[20:46] <slangasek> cjwatson: so the timezone is saved after the bootloader is written out (hmm, eew)?
[20:47] <cjwatson> slangasek: no, but somebody could have made bootloader arrangements by hand and then forgotten about it :)
[20:47] <slangasek> heh
[20:47] <cjwatson> tzsetup writes /etc/timezone unconditionally
[20:48] <cjwatson> are we sure that lifeless' problem is that /etc/timezone is missing? he doesn't mention that in the bug
[20:49] <Seveas> slangasek, one line related to tzsetup:
[20:49] <Seveas> Jul 19 22:54:11 ubuntu ubiquity: Jul 19 22:54:11 ubiquity: Starting up '['log-output', '-t', 'ubiquity', '--pass-stdout', '/usr/lib/ubiquity/tzsetup/post-base-installer']' for ubiquity.components.timezone_apply.TimezoneApply
[20:49] <slangasek> yes, we discussed it at length on IRC, the bug submission was more terse though
[20:49] <Seveas> and something indeed went wrong
[20:49] <Seveas> the system was not connected to the internet so could not install the NL langpacks
[20:49] <cjwatson> slangasek: tzdata.postinst looks wrong to me
[20:49] <slangasek> Seveas: could you attach the log to the bug, then?
[20:49] <slangasek> cjwatson: current or past?
[20:49] <Seveas> will check for sensitive info and do
[20:50] <cjwatson> ... oh, no, sorry, I misread
[20:50] <cjwatson> I thought it would only ever update /etc/localtime if you were in dpkg-reconfigure
[20:50] <cjwatson> but I read || instead of &&
[20:50] <slangasek> cjwatson: I've already been over the current tzdata.postinst with the Debian glibc folks, I'm fairly confident that it's correct
[20:50] <cjwatson> yeah
[20:50] <cjwatson> Seveas: that's just status output, we'd need more context
[20:51] <Seveas> cjwatson, yeah, but that's a bit too much for irc, attaching to bug...
[20:53] <Seveas> attached
[20:54] <emgent> heya
[20:56] <cjwatson> Seveas: and /etc/timezone is missing after that?
[20:56] <cjwatson> there's no mention of a problem at that stage in the installer
[20:56] <cjwatson> I think a maintainer script must be stomping on it
[20:57] <slangasek> cjwatson: "after that" being "now that he's upgraded across three releases and is running hardy" :/
[20:57] <cjwatson> perhaps the preinst should check if /etc/timezone is missing and if so try comparing /etc/localtime with all the timezone files to reconstruct it ...
[20:57] <cjwatson> might not help either, but would help if the upgrade were direct
[20:58] <Seveas> I'll run sime tests tomorrow
[20:58] <cjwatson> could be gnome-system-tools for all I know
[20:58] <Seveas> err, thursday
[20:58] <cjwatson> or the clock applet
[20:58] <Seveas> trashable system is in the office
[21:12]  * cjwatson acquires a new level of understanding of how horrible the handling of the numeric keypad . (or in some layouts ,) key is
[21:15] <mathiaz> slangasek: there isn't any difference between edgy and dapper
[21:15] <slangasek> mathiaz: ok, cool
[21:16] <mathiaz> slangasek: so you can upload a new version of samba with your fix
[21:16] <slangasek> sounds good
[21:17] <pitti> mjg59: WDYT about https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/162654/comments/8 ?
[21:17] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 162654 in pm-utils "networkmanager (0.6.5-0ubuntu16.7.10.0) needs to be restarted manually after suspend using pm-utils, while functioning correctly using acpi" [Undecided,Triaged]
[21:18] <croSmiley> is there any way to code in c# in ubuntu?
[21:18] <pitti> mjg59: I forwarded the 'network modules unload' patch to upstream, BTW, they didn't like it very much ('fix kernel instead kthxbye' type)
[21:18] <pitti> mjg59: however, if we keep it, then I agree that we should also call /etc/init.d/networking stop/start on suspend/resume
[21:22] <cjwatson> croSmiley: we ship Mono; this isn't a good place to ask about development *on* Ubuntu, though (this channel is for people actually developing Ubuntu itself)
[21:31] <croSmiley> cjwatson: thank you, sorry for OT
[21:33] <keescook> okay, so who is a g-p-m expert?  I want to immediately trigger power-save mode on my monitor (since it seems to have stopped working)
[21:33] <thom> who do i need to talk to about #204066 ? (jcastro, you're in th eloop on this i think)
[21:36] <slangasek> keescook: doesn't sound like a g-p-m thing if you're talking about a one-time event, though, maybe you want 'xset dpms'?
[21:36] <slangasek> though ICBW
[21:36] <keescook> slangasek: mostly I'm trying to just debug the lack of power-save.  :P  I'll start with xset...
[21:37] <seb128_> keescook: g-p-m didn't change recently, since when do you have the bug?
[21:37] <bryce> keescook: you could look at the code in xdg-screensaver; I think I included power saving commands in that
[21:38] <keescook> seb128_: I noticed after my last big dist-upgrade, which was about 4 days ago (which covered maybe 10 days of updates)
[21:38] <keescook> I just did another update today, and it's still a problem.
[21:38] <keescook> so now it's time to debug.  ;)
[21:39] <keescook> "xset dpms force standby" worked just fine
[21:39] <seb128_> keescook: you can run gnome-power-manager --no-daemon --verbose
[21:39] <seb128_> keescook: and set /apps/gnome-power-manager/timeout/sleep_display_battery in gconf-editor to some low value
[21:40] <mjg59> pitti: Wurgh. No, I'm not convinced that's the right thing to do.
[21:40] <keescook> but I'm on AC (this is my desktop)
[21:40] <pitti> mjg59: but rmmod'ing any network devices will kill all up'ed devices in /etc/network/interfaces...
[21:41] <seb128_> keescook: there is a similar ac key
[21:41] <bryce> keescook: for reference, last change to xserver was the 13th, but mostly dealt with exa/glx video issues, not power saving (AFAIK)
[21:42] <jcastro> thom: someone in -motu can probably look at it
[21:42] <bryce> wait, let me doublecheck that
[21:42] <keescook> bryce: yeah, it seems that x/intel is happy (dpms force worked)
[21:42] <seb128_> keescook: well, the power saving delay will be idle + g-p-m setting, so you want to set /apps/gnome-screensaver/idle_delay to 1 too
[21:42] <keescook> seb128_: it's safe to kill the existing g-p-m daemon first?
[21:42] <seb128_> keescook: yes
[21:42] <keescook> seb128_: okay, cool
[21:43] <bryce> ah, timo put in 3 more patches over the weekend.  1 exa, 2 xkb.
[21:44] <bryce> keescook: changes to -intel in last 10 days aren't likely to affect dpms either
[21:45] <bryce> the last major -intel change was the greedy heuristics stuff, though, which had pretty far reaching implications (almost entirely good)
[21:48] <keescook> seb128: hm, no standby happened.
[21:48] <seb128> keescook: anything useful in the log?
[21:49] <keescook> wtf, is the pastebin rot13'ing stuff for apr1st?
[21:49] <keescook> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/61850/
[21:49] <keescook> it doesn't mention DPMS during the idle.
[21:49] <keescook> [x11_sync_server_dpms_settings] gpm-dpms.c:130 (13:45:01):       Syncing DPMS settings enabled=1 timeouts=0 0 0
[21:49] <keescook> that seemed odd (the 0 timeouts)
[21:50] <seb128> maybe worth talking to ted, he maintains gnome-power-manager now
[21:50] <seb128> he did some change to the code to be action based
[21:52] <keescook> tedg: I'm trying to debug lack of DPMS when idle
[21:52] <keescook> dpms itself works (xset dpms force standby)
[21:52] <keescook> and g-p-m notices I'm idle, but DPMS never seems to trigger
[21:52] <keescook> log of it here: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/61850/  (though it seems pastebin is rot13'ing eveyrhting today)
[21:53] <slangasek> heh
[21:53] <tedg> It's probably because you don't have a laptop panel entry in your HAL.
[21:53] <tedg> HAL tells GPM whether it has a panel that it can dim.
[21:53] <tedg> Oh, wait, DPMS should be regardless of that.
[21:53] <keescook> tedg: yeah, this is a desktop system.
[21:53] <keescook> I'm unclear if this is sane:
[21:53] <keescook> [x11_sync_server_dpms_settings] gpm-dpms.c:130 (13:45:01):       Syncing DPMS settings enabled=1 timeouts=0 0 0
[21:54] <tedg> keescook: Nobody uses desktops anymore... *wontfix* ;)
[21:54] <keescook> timeouts all 0?
[21:54] <keescook> haha
[21:54] <keescook> tedg: what should I expect to see in the gpm logs?
[21:55] <tedg> You should see it setting that value.
[21:55] <tedg> I'm trying to look for the logic, just a sec.
[21:55] <keescook> okay
[21:55] <keescook> tedg: note that this is, from my perspective, a regression -- it worked correctly prior to a few weeks ago-ish.  (I didn't change any gconf settings)
[21:56] <keescook> (until today that is to debug it based on seb128's advice)
[21:56] <andrea_c7a> Hi. I created a debdiff to fix bug #201330. Now I should look for a sponsor but https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess is not very clear on how to do this. Shall I set it as "Fix Released" ? Why not "Fix Committed" ? Why "unsubscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors" ?
[21:56] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 201330 in compiz "Need to whitelist multiple ATI cards, or remove blacklisting" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/201330
[21:57] <pitti> andrea_c7a: subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors and set it to 'fix committed'; that sounds pretty appropriate to me
[21:58] <pitti> andrea_c7a: the part you are reading is for the sponsor
[21:58] <tedg> keescook: I believe that it broke on my desktop also, but I hadn't looked into it at all.  I'm curious if an X change happened...  nothing GPM related has change.
[21:58] <andrea_c7a> pitti: thanx I think I'll try that
[21:58] <tedg> keescook: but there have been bugs where people complained about similar behavior.
[21:58] <keescook> tedg: how do we debug it?
[21:58] <tedg> keescook: So I'm thinking that GPM only sets DPMS for laptop panels.  Elsewise it expects X to set them.
[21:59] <keescook> tedg: is that behavior a regression?  the gpm-prefs show a DPMS timeout.
[21:59] <keescook> though it's called "put display to sleep"
[22:00] <tedg> keescook: Perhaps, I'm thinking that the value has never actually done anything :)
[22:00] <keescook> tedg: that's certainly not true -- my desktop goes into blank, and later into DPMS
[22:00] <keescook> (or rather, it used to)
[22:01] <tedg> keescook: But did that value change based on how you slid the slider?
[22:01] <keescook> yeah
[22:01] <keescook> at least I think so
[22:01] <keescook> and either way, how do we debug the change in behavior?
[22:02] <seb128> keescook: use the source? ;-)
[22:02] <seb128> the g-p-m code is not really complicated
[22:02] <keescook> I was hoping to avoid that if someone else knew it better already.  :P
[22:02] <seb128> and the debug mode is verbose
[22:03]  * keescook downgrades gpm
[22:03] <seb128> tedg: btw did you package the new version?
[22:03] <tedg> I don't think that'll fix it, but go ahead :)
[22:03] <tedg> seb128: Yes, but I haven't logged out and in to make sure it doesn't kill my laptop yet, it works well on my desktop though.
[22:04] <tedg> keescook: I'm thinking that it's getting that DPMS is disabled, but it turns out there is no debug message for that....
[22:04] <seb128> tedg: could you give it a try so it can be uploaded? ;-)
[22:07] <keescook> hrm...
[22:07] <keescook> $ xset dpms 10 20 30
[22:07] <keescook> $ xset -q | grep Stand
[22:07] <keescook>   Standby: 10    Suspend: 20    Off: 30
[22:07] <keescook> *change gpm*
[22:07] <keescook> $ xset -q | grep Stand
[22:07] <keescook>   Standby: 0    Suspend: 0    Off: 0
[22:08] <keescook> I assume that's what this means:
[22:08] <keescook> [x11_sync_server_dpms_settings] gpm-dpms.c:130 (14:07:38):       Syncing DPMS settings enabled=1 timeouts=0 0 0
[22:09] <keescook>                         gpm_debug ("not laptop, so use GPM_BACKLIGHT_METHOD_STAGGER");
[22:09] <keescook>                         method = GPM_DPMS_METHOD_STAGGER;
[22:09] <keescook> that's a debug typo...
[22:10]  * keescook wishes he had his gnome vcs login again
[22:15] <keescook> I think sync_settings is failing
[22:15] <keescook>         if (dpms->priv->active) {
[22:16] <tedg> Yeah, it would seem that's the only path to all zeros.
[22:20] <tedg> Do you see where "active" is initialized?
[22:20] <keescook> tedg: not yet, I'm looking at the "Idle state changed" stuff currently
[22:21] <keescook> i never see "Idle state changed: SYSTEM" in my logs.  should I?
[22:22] <tedg> I guess it's possible depending on your timeout values.  But I don't think it should be normal if GPM is controlling everything.
[22:43] <tedg> keescook: You find anything odd?
[22:44] <keescook> I'm presently suspicious of 01_no_backlight_on_idle.patch
[22:45] <keescook> yup.  that appears to be unchecked in my gconf for "idle_dim_ac".
[22:45] <keescook> which means it never attempts DPMS
[22:45] <keescook> tedg: that's a problem.  :P
[22:45] <tedg> Yeah, for me too.  I wonder why it's unset.
[22:46] <tedg> And why so recently... that patch has been in for a while.
[22:47] <keescook> confirmed, checking that box made my DPMS kick in on idle.
[22:47] <keescook> so... where does that gconf setting get controlled, and how could it get cleared?
[22:47] <keescook> btw, it was only added 2 weeks ago
[22:48] <tedg> It's in the schemas.  I just verified that we're not changing it in the packaging.
[22:48] <keescook>   * Adding patch 01_no_backlight_on_idle.patch which was attached on to
[22:48] <keescook>     Bug # 137598 by Tim Hull.  Not sure that it fixes the problem, but
[22:48] <keescook>     seems like good code to include.
[22:48] <keescook> I would refute your claim of "good code".  ;)
[22:48] <tedg> No, that's when I combined everything.  I guess that's when it got pushed out to everyone then.
[22:50] <tedg> I guess the problem here is that the GConf value is related to dimming, in reality we're talking about blanking.
[22:50] <keescook> other people in bug 137598 have my same complaint.  :(
[22:50] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 137598 in gnome-power-manager "Screen brightness resets to default (maximum) on idle with AC plugged in" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/137598
[22:51] <keescook> tedg: idle_changed_cb is the entire "backlight" idle entry point.  :P
[22:51] <tedg> keescook: Yes, that report makes sense now....
[22:52] <keescook> the dim check needs to happen somewhere else, I imagine.
[22:52] <keescook> can we drop that patch for release, and file the dimming bug upstream to get solved more cleanly?
[22:55] <tedg> Well, it seems like it should be in "evaluate_and_set" when it checks to see if the other dimming options are set.
[22:56] <keescook> tedg: 207553
[22:59] <Level15> if i boot off the alternate cd in recovery mode and choose Reinstall Grub boot loader option, is there a way to know if it worked (besides rebooting), and if it didn't work, see the error messages?
[23:18] <norsetto> pitti: any chance superpitti is around?
[23:18] <tedg> keescook: It looks like the patch is included in 04, so when moving it, it becomes duplicate.
[23:19] <tedg> keescook: I'm removing that one in favor of 04.
[23:19] <TheMuso> norsetto: pitti is off for the night I believe.
[23:19] <norsetto> TheMuso: Yes, I wouldn't be surprised, how is it going with you?
[23:20] <TheMuso> norsetto: Well thanks. Yourself?
[23:20] <alex-weej> scaled video looks like ass with compiz in the default install
[23:20] <alex-weej> can we not use gl output or something?
[23:20] <keescook> tedg: sure, sounds good
[23:20] <norsetto> TheMuso: I'm fine, thx
[23:20] <keescook> tedg: okay, so you'll drop 01 as a fix for 207553?
[23:21] <tedg> keescook: Yes, building a PPA version and testing, but that's the plan.
[23:21] <seb128> don't reintroduce the other bug
[23:21] <keescook> \o
[23:21] <tedg> seb128: Yes, it turns out that it was also fixed by the 04 patch.  We were infact fixing it twice.
[23:21] <seb128> ah, ok
[23:22] <seb128> alright then
[23:22] <tedg> If we fix it twice does that mean we have negative bugs?
[23:22] <tedg> ;)
[23:26] <alex-weej> is Xv supposed to work with composite?
[23:27] <tedg> alex-weej: I don't believe so.  There is a compiz video plugin, and a gstreamer output for it, but I dont' think it's super stable.
[23:27] <jdong> supposed to? yes.
[23:27] <jdong> depends on what card whether or not it actually works.
[23:27] <alex-weej> i've just discovered that fglrx actually does composite well now
[23:27] <tedg> alex-weej: Sorry, work, yes, is it GL happy, no.
[23:27] <alex-weej> so i'm testing it out
[23:27] <jdong> it works perfectly on nvidia for me, somewhat okay on Intel, puke on fglrx
[23:28] <alex-weej> is Xv supposed to work at all?
[23:28] <jdong> alex-weej: for everyone not fglrx, yes
[23:28] <alex-weej> cause i can't get gst to run with xv sink
[23:28] <alex-weej> it didn't work with radeon either
[23:28] <jdong> alex-weej: fglrx has been braindead retarded with xv for the past decade
[23:28] <jdong> right now xv works okay with moderate diagonal tearing with composite off
[23:28] <jdong> and with composite on, 90% of users report freakish flickering
[23:28] <jdong> so YMMV
[23:28] <alex-weej> with fglrx?!
[23:29] <jdong> yes, with fglrx
[23:29] <jdong> personally I run fglrx 8.40.4 with Xgl because it works the smoothest
[23:29] <alex-weej> maybe it's my card then, but the R350 on both fglrx and radeon fails to get an Xv output
[23:31] <alex-weej> hm, aticonfig...
[23:31]  * alex-weej restarts X
[23:32] <jcole> im trying to install the latest hardy beta from the destop cd and cant figure out how to find my raided /home partition
[23:32] <jcole> i see the 2 separate ones, but not the unified of those 2
[23:33] <jcole> i originally installed via the debian installer
[23:33] <jcole> prehaps i can modprobe something in ctrl-alt-f1?
[23:39] <jcole> software raid0
[23:40] <TheMuso> jcole: The desktop CD doesn't support installing/using RAID partitions for installing.
[23:41] <jcole> TheMuso: ah, just like encrypted partitions...
[23:42] <TheMuso> jcole: I believe so yes.
[23:43] <TheMuso> jcole: I think the alternate CD is your best bet.
[23:43] <jcole> TheMuso: the alternate cd and the mini.iso both hang
[23:43] <TheMuso> jcole: How so?
[23:43] <jcole> TheMuso: locks up my machine
[23:43] <TheMuso> jcole: Where abouts in the process does it hang?
[23:43] <jcole> TheMuso: installing the kernel
[23:44] <TheMuso> ah ok... interesting.
[23:44] <jcole> TheMuso: it install all the packages
[23:44] <jcole> TheMuso: everything
[23:44] <jcole> TheMuso: but cant get to the kernel or grub
[23:45] <jcole> TheMuso: ya, that shouldnt matter since its running the d-i kernel
[23:45] <jcole> TheMuso: i wanted to see ctrl-alt-f4 but it locked up
[23:45] <TheMuso> jcole: Right, I'm not sure if I can help you then.
[23:45] <jcole> TheMuso: march 20 was the last release right?
[23:46] <jcole> TheMuso: the mini.iso is dated the 10th -> http://ubuntu.osuosl.org/ubuntu/dists/hardy/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/
[23:46] <TheMuso> jcole: Are you referring to the beta?
[23:46] <jcole> ya
[23:47] <TheMuso> jcole: Have you tried the latest daily cd image?
[23:47] <jcole> no
[23:47] <jcole> TheMuso: where do i get it?
[23:47] <TheMuso> jcole: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current >- alternate CD
[23:47] <TheMuso> jcole: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current <- desktop CD
[23:48] <tedg> keescook: It's in my PPA, should be built shortly.
[23:49] <keescook> cool
[23:51] <jcole> TheMuso: ill get the images from there from now on
[23:51] <jcole> TheMuso: is there a daily mini.iso?
[23:52] <jcole> TheMuso: thats what i usually use... we have internal mirrors that we point to
[23:53] <TheMuso> jcole: The only time mini.iso gets updated is when a new debian-installer is uploaded.
[23:54] <TheMuso> jcole: But you can find the mini.iso in your local mirror dists/hardy/main/installer-i386 dir I think it is.
[23:55] <jcole> TheMuso: i did... and burnt it... doesnt work
[23:55] <jcole> TheMuso: it should be rebuilt everytime there is also a kernel change
[23:55] <TheMuso> jcole: Yes thats right.
[23:58] <jcole> TheMuso: thanks alot
[23:59] <jcole> TheMuso: ill try the daily build and see how it goes :)
[23:59] <jcole> $ wget -c --no-cache http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/hardy-alternate-i386.iso
[23:59] <jcole>  6% [=>                                   ] 43,375,965   105.11K/s  ETA 1:12:30
[23:59] <cjwatson> a hang installing the *kernel* is pretty odd - oh, he's gone
[23:59] <cjwatson> syslog will be useful, if he comes back