[00:08] apachelogger: libsmokeqt4-2 should Replace libsmokeqt4-1 [00:08] same for -dev [00:09] apachelogger: libsmokeqt4-2-dev should depend on libsmokeqt4-2 [00:09] likewise libsmokekde4-2-dev [00:11] apachelogger: any idea how I tell ruby to look in /usr/lib/kde4/lib/ruby/ ? [00:13] * Nightrose thinks he went to bed already [00:13] sensible chap [00:14] ;-) [00:14] apachelogger: libkrosspython0 and libkrossruby probably need to depend on python and ruby [00:14] it ia 1:14 here after all [00:15] *is [00:21] hey its not really a bug, but i'd like to know where you can suggest feature (for konversation, an autojoin when kicked) [00:22] you can file wishlist bugs on bugs.kde.org [00:26] thank you Riddell [00:26] i'll check if someone already did it first [00:27] on that note, i wish you a good night and thanks for the great work ! [00:28] * Nightrose remembers something about konversationdevs not wanting to implement this since kicked means you proably got kicked for a reason [00:28] * stdin remembers the same thing [00:29] I think, it might be time to upload a sensible k-d-s [00:30] hehe yea [00:30] apachelogger: libkorundum4-ruby1.8-examples has a lot of .gz files being made by dh_installdocs, there's a variable you can set to stop that happening [00:31] yay, got korundum working [00:32] \o/ [00:37] qtruby too but I have to change require 'Qt' to require 'Qt4' [00:45] something broke on a daily update here [00:45] http://dpaste.com/42661/ [00:47] nareshov: do report a bug and let me know the number [00:47] ok [00:49] I think that's bug #194016 [00:49] Launchpad bug 194016 in bzrtools "package bzrtools 1.2.0-1ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194016 [00:49] different version, but similar error [00:51] and bug #210452 [00:51] Launchpad bug 210452 in bzrtools "error updating bzrtools" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210452 [00:51] yep [00:52] that [00:53] the 2nd report looks closer [00:54] I'll try removing bzrtools and installing it again. [00:54] worked :| [01:00] http://www.flickr.com/photos/nixternal/2381606928/ [01:00] check that bad boy out [01:00] naughty naughty [01:01] hehe, I am stuck using windows though here in the classroom [01:01] but now I have konqi, konsole, and everything I need to feel happy :) [01:02] Riddell: so that package can just be changed back to the old one, but with a new version number? [01:12] nosrednaekim: uploaded [01:27] "I did the latest updates today and after tha, my default Kubuntu wallpaper was some kind of purple, new-agey depiction of a unicorn. The kind of thing that would fit in perfectly with music by Yanni and John Tesh. If any Kubuntu developers are reading this, please--please!--ditch this awful wallpaper and replace it with something that normal people can bear to look at. Send that ugly one back to the incense and candles crowd." [01:30] and the answer is: "no" :p [01:37] Riddell: thanks :) [01:37] Jucato: LOL... where was that? [01:37] kubuntuforums.net [01:38] (he could have saved himself the trouble and embarrassment... there was already another similar thread :P) [01:38] Jucato: ^_^ [02:01] morning Jucato [02:01] hi jjesse [02:02] how are you? [02:03] 3/4 good [02:05] that's good [02:10] wow the speed crunch manual is boring to work on [02:19] the wallpaper is in kubuntu-kde4? [02:20] kubuntu-default-settings [02:20] devilsadvocate: its in kubuntu-default-settings [02:32] good lord lots of kde4 updates [02:32] 4.0.3? [02:33] i assume so... seing getting kdebase-data-kde4 etc [02:33] cool :) [02:34] ok how do i find out? [02:34] is that apt-cache show and then the package name? [02:34] policy might be a bit easier to understand [02:34] apt-cache policy [02:34] is that candidate 4.0.3? [02:35] I geuss [02:35] installed is 4.0.2 and candidate is 4.0.3 [02:35] so i would assume its kde 4.0.3 [02:35] yea [02:36] dang stupid dog stinks [02:55] quiet channel tonight [02:55] eveyone must be asleep [02:55] nah [02:57] :) [02:59] nah [03:55] just curious - what happened to kde4 pim stuff like kontact, etc? [03:55] been a while since I looked at KDE4. [03:55] LeeJunFan: it's there in trunk [03:57] i heard it should be in kde 4.1 [04:59] man, kubuntu-default-settings even bled into my trunk build :/ [05:05] You interested in coming to work at Red Hat? You seem to be a real rock star and we'd love to talk to you. [05:05] ummm, don't think so..thanks anyways [05:05] hah [05:05] sure, talk to them. it might be interesting [05:06] already have [05:06] the position for me would require me to stop working on Kubuntu [05:06] 23:05:57 [ kenvandin] nobody cool works at red hat anymore :) [05:06] hahahahahaha [05:06] awww [05:06] ex red hat employee [06:36] oi, the k-d-s stuff messed up setting for both kde3 and kde4 fairly good [06:36] kde3, kicker can't find wallpaper images [06:36] kde4, all icons in plasma have a white background now [06:44] we need to grab the latest slim-glow theme, as well as the fixed svg panel background === never|mobi is now known as neversfelde|mobi === hunger_t is now known as hunger [07:55] Is it a policy decision or a bug that when upgrading xorg.conf Adept does not warn about modified local configuration file but instead just changes it? === fabo_ is now known as fabo [08:19] Riddell: Hi === \sh_away is now known as \sh [08:38] meuh !!!!!!!!! [08:43] Tonio_: sounds like my hardy experience this morning... X being horribly slow, resolution being wrong and konsole not working (running, but not taking input) [08:48] Riddell: ok, thanks [08:49] Lynoure: you probably have to reconfigure X I'm affraid [08:50] Tonio_: I did that, that part was easy. Though I don't understand why it overwrote a modified config file without asking my opinion first. [08:50] Lynoure: no idea, I never saw that problem before.... [08:50] But no idea what do to about the slow konsole or sluggish kde/x [08:51] Lynoure: slow console can be due to tty, which are also linked to X [08:51] not console [08:52] konsole, and actually, just slow to start, otherwise not doing a thing. Tried asking about it on #ubuntu+1 but no kde users there, it seems [08:53] So no idea whether this is universal. [08:53] <_StefanS_> morning [09:38] hey _StefanS_ ;) [09:39] Lynoure: are you using kde3 or 4 ? [09:40] More kde3 [09:40] sometimes kde4, so both are installed [09:42] Lynoure: and do you see the slowness with both konsole and konsole-kde4 ? [09:43] Tonio_: konsole just does not work, not just slowness. I have not tried kde4 yet today [09:43] Lynoure: weird........ [09:43] it takes no input, no text or mouse action on menus [09:44] Lynoure: what does it tell if you start from command line ? [09:44] Lynoure: start konsole within xterm for example [09:46] it complains about scim [09:47] brb, so I can paste... [09:50] it's in http://pastebin.com now, entry by Lynoure [09:50] scim firmly put itself in my tray some time back, and not finding any other working way to get rid of it I removed whole scim as nothing was depending on it [09:55] Tonio_: http://pastebin.com/m6c5ecf2 if I got that right [10:08] Tonio_: I do seem to have scim-bridge-client-qt installed just fine, still [10:09] Tonio_: dmesg shows repeating scim-brigde segfaults [10:10] try to remove scim-bridge* [10:12] smarter: thanks, that seems to have fixed it. I wonder how I got it in the first place... [10:13] kubuntu-desktop depends or recommends on it IIRC === kitterma is now known as ScottK2 [11:23] hmm ntfs partitions don't mount in kde 4 [11:26] CheGuevara: yep.. they don't [11:27] should probably be fixed before rls [11:27] * CheGuevara investigates [11:27] etretyak, it was your patch for 3.5 to fix this wasnt it [11:27] CheGuevara: actualy, i could create a patch for Solid ... the same as for 3.5 [11:28] CheGuevara: but it would be better to integrate policykit authentication in Solid [11:28] don't really have much time left before hardy [11:29] CheGuevara: yes.. and this was not planed for hardy [11:30] yeah [11:31] your 3.5 patch looks quiet simple [11:31] so I guess you could probably port it easily? [11:32] yes i know where to patch Solid too.. [11:35] great! [11:36] but... we had already a featurefreeze [11:40] thats a bugfix [11:40] not really a feature? [11:42] i bet loads of ppl will complaign if it don't work properly [11:46] * etretyak downloading kde4 sources... [12:06] I've added font settings to kds-kde4 kdeglobals to workaround bug #209358 but they seem to be ignored, If I copy /usr/share/kubuntu-default-settings/kde4-profile/default/share/config/kdeglobals to ~/.kde4/share/config it works, anyone know why? [12:06] Launchpad bug 209358 in qt4-x11 "fonts in Qt4 look ugly because it uses Nimbus Sans L instead of Deja Vu Sans for Sans-Serif" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/209358 [12:07] smarter: kdeglobals doesn't seem to work there [12:07] smarter: try /usr/lib/kde4/etc/kde4/kdeglobals [12:08] apachelogger: please have a look at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/amarok/+bug/103227/ [12:08] Launchpad bug 103227 in amarok "Add last.fm "recommendations" playlist" [Undecided,Invalid] [12:27] Riddell: it works [12:27] why does kds kdeglobals doesn't work? [12:27] smarter: dunno, but we can easily enough install to the other location [12:27] yes, I'll change that === smarter_ is now known as smarter === \sh is now known as \sh_away === \sh_away is now known as \sh [14:05] the bzrtools-breaking-the-upgrade thing still exists... it just broke a safe-upgrade (bzrtools required bzr < 3.2) for me [14:12] devilsadvocate: did you get a bug number? [14:13] Riddell, it was discussed here esterday, i believe [14:13] Riddell, i think #210452 [14:13] Riddell, let me check [14:15] Riddell, sorry. not that one [14:16] Riddell, http://dpaste.com/42755/ . should i file a bug report? [14:18] that's not a bug, that's you fixing the problem :) [14:19] Riddell, but that shouldnt happen in the first place :P [14:19] right but what was the problem i nthe [14:19] in the first place? [14:19] "bzrtools: Depends: bzr (< 1.3~) but 1.3-1 is installed." ? [14:20] that seems to be fixed with current bzrtools [14:20] Riddell, the situation is thus : bzr and bzrtools were installed a week or two ago together. then, when i upgrade, something messes up the dependency [14:20] hm, ok [14:21] the bzrtools build only happened some hours ago https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bzrtools/1.3.0-2ubuntu1/+build/552260 [14:22] so I think you just had bad timing yesterday and today it's all good [14:29] #!&#@ [14:29] why did uninstalling kde4 mess up my kde3 settings? [14:30] * seele sighs === smarter_ is now known as smarter [15:41] seele: in which way? [15:50] Riddell: that kde broke? [15:51] * seele isn't sure what way you're asking of [15:51] seele: yes, what kde 3 settings got messed up when uninstalling kde 4 [15:52] ah.. well what i did was go in to adept and find everything installed that was -kde4 and removed it and rebooted [15:52] kdm was gone, but i figured that might have been kde4, but kde 3 konq and kontact were also removed [15:53] and the kde3 desktop is completely broken [15:53] there is no background and i cant click on the Desktop, and i can't configure kicker at all [15:53] i didn't try deleting .kde yet (in the middle of backing it up -- there's a few gigs of mail in there) [15:53] ouch [15:54] so.. i dunno if i did something really stupid by removing all the -kde4 packages.. but i didnt know how else to remove it [15:54] i dont use kde4 on my work laptop and i needed the space [15:55] Riddell: yesterday, a normal daily-upgrade removed some parts of kde4 [15:55] kdm-kde4 is gone [15:55] and when I do 'sudo aptitude install kubuntu-kde4-desktop' now, this is what I get: http://dpaste.com/42770/ [16:00] seele: install kdebase-bin-kde3 and kubuntu-desktop [16:01] nareshov: probably just the archive playing around with the new 4.0.3 packages [16:01] stdin: how did gutsy 4.0.3 go? [16:02] hmm [16:04] and aptitude update && aptitude install kubuntu-kde4-desktop seems to be working [16:08] yay [16:08] Riddell: you should really have super-hero status [16:09] :D [16:12] seele: doesn't he already? ;-) [16:13] Nightrose: i dont remember seeing a cape and tights, but maybe he was in clark kent mode [16:13] *loool* right [16:26] nixternal: wb === pgquiles_ is now known as pgquiles [16:55] seems we had an internet issue this morning while I was at skewl [17:40] 12:30 < yuriy> warrend: iirc Riddell and mhb already know about that bug and someone is working on it but hasn't figured it out yet [17:40] Riddell: is that accurate wrt bug 209578 [17:40] Launchpad bug 209578 in gdebi "gdebi-kde crashes with an memory allocation error" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/209578 [17:41] yuriy: hope so. serenga said he's work on it [17:41] although if anyone else wants a quick python job, all welcome [17:51] nixternal: how did the extragear apps go? [17:52] the ones that weren't broken have been uploaded [17:52] kpovmodeler is a tricky one [17:52] 3 new icons have been added, yet the version remained the same [17:52] I wish they would bump the version for each tagging [17:54] and it seems the majority of the new keg apps were just pot updates === \sh is now known as \sh_away [17:55] nixternal: did you report that kpovmodeler version issue to toma? [17:55] Riddell: all of the version in keg weren't bumped at all...except for one that follows the 4.x.x releases [17:56] nixternal: how did you work around that in packaging? [17:57] man, didn't want this question asked..I cheated big time, and I know it is wrong, but I just extracted the upstream tarball and copied the changes in [17:58] shrug, if upstream will do silly things, silly workarounds are needed [17:59] nixternal: but did you tell toma about the problem? [17:59] ya, but I can't do it with kpovmodeler [17:59] talking to him now about [17:59] it [18:00] nixternal: I'd recommend calling it 1.0.0b or similar [18:00] I am going to take it to the release-team ml...he said there isn't much they can do about it, but it is a valid issue [18:00] wow i have no desire to do any work [18:00] Riddell: hrmm, I guess I could do that [18:00] umm, there are things they can do about it, upping the version number for example :) [18:00] how else can i procrastinate today [18:01] Riddell: he said if the apps themselves don't do it then I guess the release team doesn't do it [18:01] jjesse: you are talking to the best procrastinator there is! [18:01] nixternal: then the release team should do it (or not release) === firephoto_ is now known as firephoto [18:02] nixternal: lol [18:02] Riddell: my feelings exactly [18:02] nixternal: btw commited a speedcrunch doc last night so that app can finally get a help manual [18:02] I will go ahead and redo the packages with a new version, ie. x.x.xb [18:03] that is safer and I don't have to worry about md5 issues or someone down the line catching the fact it is a cheated package and complain about it [18:03] will Okular become part of the default install of hardy remix? [18:03] Riddell: 4.0.3 built ok, I didn't test it because I fell asleep :p [18:03] back [18:03] hehe [18:03] forward [18:03] stdin: sleep is not a valid excuse though [18:04] I am really liking okular...but for some reason, the same issue I had with kpdf and the caching of the files [18:04] when I load a pdf, and go to the 2nd or which ever page is next, it takes a few seconds to load [18:04] works fine when in presentation mode though [18:05] nixternal: i like it as well [18:05] I need to reformat/reinstall on this laptop anyways...it has gone from dapper -> hardy via dist-upgrade now for 2 years [18:05] jjesse: okular is n'est pas? [18:05] just wasn't installed by default [18:05] it's in the seeds [18:05] Riddell: don't you think being able to view pdf's should be a part of the default? [18:06] when i did a fresh install of beta it was not included [18:06] jjesse: yes, it certainly should be installed [18:06] I think we should charge people for its installation :) [18:06] jjesse: oh, I see, the seeds say "okular" but should be "okular-kde4" [18:06] le tme fix [18:06] let me fix [18:06] thought you were trying to speak french for a second there :) [18:07] cool [18:07] * nixternal goes and eats lunch...back in a few [18:07] then I have to finish my presentation for this week [18:07] eww [18:09] nixternal: it is when you spend 12 hours getting it all to build [18:26] hmm, the splash screen does go wonky on upgrade [18:28] thtaa's no good [18:48] yay, I've made a fix to stop guidance-power-manager from saying "no battery found" when hal is restarted [19:15] ScottK: ping ^ [19:21] wow, the new UK coins are pretty [19:21] especially compared to boring american money [19:27] seele: humph [19:27] sorry this is a humph free zone [19:28] humph, they use the English royal crest [19:29] between that and the "UK" government trying to stop scottish bank notes, the referendum is bound to be won! [19:30] Riddell: i just think they're pretty! i don't know anything about inter-kingdom squirmishes :P [19:35] <_StefanS_> so who put that horse in kdm ?? :) [19:36] smarter: Excellent [19:37] smarter: Please attach the patch to the bug and link me the bug number. I'll try and have a look at it tonight. [19:37] ok [19:37] It works with hal restart but not with dbus restart [19:37] and I don't see why [19:39] what's the difference between "self.foo = bar" and "foo = bar"? [19:40] (I'm a beginner in Python :p) [19:40] smarter: that is an important curiosity of python [19:40] self.foo makes it a class variable [19:40] foo is just local to the method [19:40] Riddell: thanks [19:47] Someone is asking me about a kubuntu store... does one exist? [19:49] not that I know of, there's the canonical shop but that's mostly ubuntu stuff [19:50] stdin: Thats what I figured [19:51] I don't understand why dbus doesn't work anymore after a /etc/init.d/dbus restart: http://smarter.pastebin.com/dad337cb [19:58] smarter: doesn't it use some kind of environment variable to know where to connect? [19:58] dunno, is there a way to "reset" it? [19:58] I tried another "import dbus" but it doesn't work [19:58] no idea. [19:58] i kind of have issues with dbus/hal. [19:59] it crashes alot here. [19:59] for some strange reason i haven't figured out yet. [20:00] is there a way to "unimport" a python module? [20:02] don't know how it works in python, in c++ you can't un-include anything. [20:04] your favourite flamer is back (for today)! [20:04] hi folks [20:04] hi flamer hero! :) [20:04] or flaming hero :) [20:04] "name a *Kit, I flame it" is my motto [20:05] yay :) [20:05] console-kit :) [20:06] i have like 5thousand console-kit-daemon processes running. would be nice to be able to burn those. [20:06] i should revert back to slackware. [20:06] or atleast gutsy. [20:06] after upgrading to hardy i have all kinds of issues. [20:07] fdoving: hehe :o) [20:07] graphical artifacts, random lockups. [20:07] much like what i had back with Windows ME. which got me into linux because i got so pissed at that crashing pice of crap. [20:08] not to mention suspend just randomly working because dbus-daemon randomly segfaults. [20:08] fdoving: hmm, lockups are hard to fix... I also had one today, but I hope it was a HW malfunction or something [20:09] yeah, i've been hoping that too. but the funny thing is that vista works flawlessly on the same machine. [20:09] and so did gutsy. [20:10] so i'm probably looking at a reinstall some time soon. this is so annoying it keeps me away from the computer. i prefer books or tv actually. [20:10] fdoving: ouch. [20:12] one of the most annoying things, is that switching from X to any other tty freezes the machine, with some graphical artifact all over the screen. loging out does the same. so does shutdown, but that doesn't lockup, it actually shuts down with the graphcial artifact showing. [20:13] this is actually the first time in my linux-time i've considered re-installing as an option to fix something. [20:15] that's a hard one to fix on the fly if you're not a kernel hacker - sounds like a video card issue [20:15] well, the video card works nicely in vista. [20:15] sounds like a hardy issue. [20:15] as gutsy livecds works nicely. [20:15] fdoving: i've started seeing those graphical artifacts after i upgraded to hardy [20:15] nareshov: yeah, hardy sux. [20:15] heh [20:16] lockups too, yeah [20:17] when i just started mplayer X hung, I could move my mouse pointer though. I went to my neighbours room and ssh'ed to my pc and pkill'ed mplayer. didn't help => hard reset ;/ [20:17] yeah, i have all kinds of weird issues i've never experienced before. === _StefanS__ is now known as _StefanS_ [20:19] here's the best part :D during my kubuntu install, i created a jfs /home. i have no idea why my freebsd's 'a' slice got relabeled to jfs ;/ [20:23] all the others are happy with the current Kubuntu? [20:23] :o) [20:23] *Kits and such [20:23] :D [20:26] fdoving, nareshov; what graphic cards and drivers do you use? [20:26] i use intel. [20:26] i think it's a reported bug, the vt-switch one, that is. [20:28] intel 950 gma [20:28] with the i810 or intel driver? [20:28] they are the same. [20:28] only the names differ in ubuntu. [20:28] i915 [20:28] they were merged back in gutsy or feisty. iirc. [20:29] * Nightrose is happy with hardy besides the problem that right klicking in dolphin opens the file and the menu at the same time [20:29] xserver-xorg-video-i810 and xserver-xorg-video-intel are not the same [20:30] smarter: back in gutsy they were, with i810 beeing an alias to intel. [20:30] Nightrose: no problem here with dolphin4/kde3, what version do you use? [20:30] fdoving: i810 is the legacy driver iirc [20:30] smarter: 1.0.2 (kde 4 version) in kde 4 [20:30] smarter: nevermind, you are right. the packages are different, the names in xorg.conf can be intel or i810. [20:31] try the other one, it might magically solve your problems (: [20:31] the other one sucks, so that won't be an option. i could downgrade to the gutsy version of the intel driver. [20:33] (when i say i810 sucks, i mean it doesn't support xrandr runtime config/detection, which i need) [20:36] how do i run a program with a different locale to test a translation? [20:37] fdoving: Did you try rebooting to single user and letting bulletproog X try to fix it for you? [20:37] LANG=FOO prog [20:37] where FOO can be something like fr_FR.UTF-8 [20:38] KDE_LANG=fr_FR for kde apps [20:39] doesn't seem to be working, maybe i need to install a language pack [20:39] ScottK: [20:39] no. [20:40] fdoving: You might do that. So far every time I've broken X working on displayconfig it's got me back to a good config. [20:40] ScottK: it [20:41] is kind of weird that my so long working xorg.conf should break suddenly. [20:41] i think it's the intel driver. looks like debian have the same problem and version. [20:41] Wow, incredible how drastically the amount of channels you are on shrinks when you restart your client :) [20:49] smarter: hmm can't get it to work [20:55] well anyways, i've attached a debdiff to bug 204439, can somebody test? [20:56] in lp how do you remove a bugs.k.o that has been linked to a bug but it isn't relevant? [20:56] (also confirm the bug since i haven't actually succeeded in running it with a different locale [20:56] seaLne: if you click on the little arrow next to the bug number there should be an option to change the bug link [20:57] * yuriy kicks ubotu [20:57] hmm that still left a line for kde pim just no bug details [20:58] Bug #50686 [20:58] seaLne: it's not an upstream bug? [20:59] long live the dead bot! [20:59] well it is but not the one Nightrose had linked to [20:59] dimap != imap [20:59] seaLne: so file one and fix the link [20:59] yuriy: meh :) [21:02] seaLne: sorry - linking that bug seemed reasonable when going through it yesterday [21:04] since ubotu is not helping: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/adept/+bug/204439 [21:04] hrmm, so it seems that the LP folks took it upon themselves to upload my info to the openid stuff..so I guess I have an OpenID account now [21:06] nixternal: ? [21:06] do you mean LP is an open id provider now? [21:06] yuriy: yes, it was announced today [21:06] (beta) [21:07] great now i have 3 :P [21:07] which is rather silly [21:08] I have one, which I never was interested in, but I guess LP made a decision for me [21:09] nixternal: if i understand correctly there is no "upload" or "account". it's your current account on LP that you can now use to identify yourself to other websites [21:10] but what if you don't want to ? [21:10] nareshov: upgrading xserver-xorg-video-intel to the version from debian experimental actually improves the crash-situation for me. atleast i can switch vts and suspend without freezing. [21:10] jjesse: then don't use it? point being they haven't given your information to someone or anything like that [21:11] the silly thing is of course as aaron pointed out (http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/pthree/~3/238240432/) all these sites are becoming providers but don't actually accept it as login credentials [21:12] hrmm, well it seems I had an OpenID already with AOL, Blogger, Flickr, Technorati, Yahoo, and WordPress, and now LP [21:13] so does that mean 1 OpenID per location, or is it the same OpenID for all? [21:13] 1 per location i think, which is the silly thing [21:13] nixternal: generally you should be able to log in with all of them everywhere [21:13] but: [21:13] congratulations, you now have 7 different ways to "uniquely" identify yourself [21:13] the silly thing is that everyone wants to be an openid provider but not consumer [21:14]