[00:07] <CIA-24> console-setup: cjwatson * r64 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.21ubuntu6
[01:27] <PenguinOfDoom> How come hardy netboot (netboot/boot.img.gz) is missing AHCI support?
[01:28] <PenguinOfDoom> (and how do I add it?)
[01:37] <PenguinOfDoom> oh hey, hd-media seems to work. Hooray for having 3 similar files that are different.
[13:48] <saispo> hi
[13:50] <saispo> cjwatson: do you think it's possible to include *-updates et *-security into cd building for having last packages ? because i distribute a disto under gutsy based but after install people have an heavy upgrade to do... i wan't to include it on the cd if it's possible
[13:53] <cjwatson> saispo: should be, but apt-cdrom probably won't like multiple trees under dists/; you could just merge the Packages files into dists/gutsy/
[13:55] <saispo> cjwatson: at this time i have two trees under dists, i have gutsy and local (for personnal packages)
[13:56] <saispo> i hesitate with two solutions... hacking shell scripts and germinate for building this automaticaly or building the cd and after, rebuilding the Packages file
[13:57] <cjwatson> I'm afraid I don't have time to help at the moment
[13:57] <saispo> ok, no problem, i will try and i submit you my solution when i found it :)
[13:58] <cjwatson> well, I don't really need it; cdimage already has code for managing a local tree
[13:58] <cjwatson> (cdimage/bin/update-local-indices and friends)
[13:59] <cjwatson> what I mean is that I don't have time to explain it at the moment :)
[13:59] <saispo> ok :)
[13:59] <cjwatson> it outputs things like dists/gutsy/local, rather than dists/local
[13:59] <saispo> thanks
[13:59] <saispo> for me no it's dists/local
[13:59] <saispo> and it work fine
[14:00] <cjwatson> if it works fine, you wouldn't be talking to me :)
[14:00] <saispo> héhé ;) i think you're the god of cd building ;)
[14:16] <foka_> Hi!  I have a (newbie) question: Is Rosetta the only way to do Ubuntu-specific (e.g. Ubuntu Installer) translations nowadays?
[14:59] <cjwatson> foka_: certainly for the installer, yes; but with a caveat, installer translations need to be applied by hand (semi-automatic, by me or evand)
[14:59] <cjwatson> foka_: the result of that is that it's better to do installer translation work in Debian where the strings are common
[15:00] <cjwatson> this doesn't apply to packages that use language packs, i.e. everything except the installer and the packages listed in the blacklist in pkgstriptranslations
[15:03] <foka_> cjwatson, I see.  Thanks for the tips!  I noticed recently that the Chinese (simplified or traditional) translation of the very first page of LiveCD (isolinux.txt stuff?) is lacking.  Could you please point me to the right place for those translations?  Also, how often is 16x16.fnt (?) updated?  Thanks!  :-)  (Sorry, I am a bit too lazy to look, rather confused by the huge maze in Rosetta)
[15:04] <cjwatson> foka_: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/gfxboot-theme-ubuntu
[15:04] <cjwatson> foka_: 16x16.fnt is updated when I remember :-)
[15:04] <cjwatson> (or when somebody prods me about it)
[15:05] <cjwatson> no shame in being confused by the translations maze; we need better guidance on that
[15:06] <foka_> cjwatson, Thank you very much!  That link is very helpful!  16x16.fnt: Hehe.  :-)  You got a script that scans through the translations and pick out which characters are needed (from e.g. unifont) and save it into 16x16.fnt, right?  :-)
[15:08] <foka_> cjwatson, We were at the Intel Developer Forum in Shanghai and met several great colleagues of yours at the Canonical booth, demonstrating Ubuntu Mobile Edition.  :-)  Very impressive indeed!  :-)
[15:10] <cjwatson> yeah, 'make font' in gfxboot-theme-ubuntu regenerates it in a rather horrible way
[15:11] <cjwatson> ah, cool; who was there? Kevin Huang I guess
[15:11] <cjwatson> David Mandala?
[15:12] <foka_> cjwatson, Yes, Kevin Huang, Jouston Huang (we were colleagues at ThizLinux too!), Jon Melamut and Peter Goodall.
[15:12] <foka_> cjwatson, David might be there too, though I may have missed him.
[15:13] <foka_> cjwatson, I'm wondering: would you consider using Unified CJK glyphs from xfonts-wqy rather than unifont?  :-)
[15:14] <cjwatson> foka_: if you can make it display properly; I think Arne tried that and it had the effect of allocating a larger square for every single character (including non-CJK), causing the whole thing to overflow
[15:14] <cjwatson> I'd certainly take a patch if it didn't affect non-CJK display
[15:15] <foka_> cjwatson, The Unified CJK glyphs from unifont is kind of a portmanteau from 3 or 4 different sources (China, Taiwan, Japan, Korea) and you may have noticed that it looks big and small etc.
[15:15] <foka_> cjwatson, Cool!  Let me take a note of that.  :-)
[15:16]  * foka_ adding it to my TODO list.
[15:17] <cjwatson> is it at all feasible to fix unifont?
[15:17] <cjwatson> it would be a lot easier to take everything from a single font if we can ...
[15:17] <cjwatson> (this may be a ridiculous question)
[15:23] <foka_> cjwatson, Yes and no... very good question though.
[15:26] <foka_> cjwatson, There are pros and cons of using xfonts-wqy (Wenquanyi) and unifont.  Wenquanyi looks very unified and conforms to Mainland China standard.  unifont is, well, an unadjusted portmanteau, but it may actually look nice for Japanese users.
[15:27] <foka_> cjwatson, I think fixing unifont would be a very good solution though, but I'm not sure if the original authors are maintaining it nowadays
[15:27] <cjwatson> ah, of course, CJK unification fun
[15:27] <cjwatson> I don't think they are really
[15:30] <foka_> cjwatson, I just started up virtualbox to take a look.  Japanese actually looks OK (kind of).  I think the unifont authors picked Japanese bitmap font as the first source, and then filled in traditional Chinese glyphs from big5 fonts, and finally simplified Chinese from X gb2312 fonts.  Since they were of different sizes (probably 15px vs 16px), the result is very ugly for zh_CN.
[15:31] <cjwatson> ah
[15:32] <foka_> cjwatson, But yeah, even for Japanese text, there is room for improvement too.  For example, the full-width fullstop:  "。"  Currently, the mandatory space after the little circle is lost.
[15:32] <foka_> cjwatson, So it is not too unlike writing sentences like this.Yes,no space after punctuation.
[15:33] <foka_> cjwatson, I'll look into that as soon as I get a chance.  It is my interest area.  :-)
[15:34] <cjwatson> we're pretty close to hardy, so it would have to be totally non-intrusive, but otherwise the next release along would be ffine
[15:34] <cjwatson> fine
[15:39] <foka_> cjwatson, Yes, you're right.  Anyhow, I'll do some experimentation and send you the results, and you can judge and see if it suits Hardy or Intrepid (sp?) better.  :-)
[15:40] <foka_> cjwatson, I am quite a procrastinator though, so don't hold your breath.  :-)
[15:48] <mariodebian> cjwatson: have some time to help me?
[15:50] <evand> mariodebian: I've responded to your post on ubuntu-install@lists.ubuntu.com
[16:43] <foka_> Hi!  When translating "Free software only" (gfxboot-theme-ubuntu), which of the following is better?  (a) "Install free software only"  (b) "Limited to Free software only"
[16:44] <foka_> Also: Is that phrase in Hardy beta?  I couldn't find it.  Thanks!  :-)
[16:45] <cjwatson> (a)
[16:45] <cjwatson> not in beta, no
[16:46] <foka_> cjwatson, Thanks!  :-)
[16:47] <foka_> Also: Motor Difficulties - switch devices.  Is switch here a verb or a noun?  Is the switch an "on-off" switch or more like keys on keyboard (or buttons on mouse)?
[16:48] <foka_> (the current zh_CN translation uses "switch" as in "exchange" (also in the sense of "network switch") which I find pretty weird.)
[16:50] <cjwatson> bear with me a moment; that text didn't originate with me
[16:50] <cjwatson> it's certainly a noun
[16:51] <cjwatson> it's accessibility jargon
[16:52] <cjwatson> sort of like keys on a keyboard, but not necessarily exactly that; http://www.aacmounts.com/4_2_other_switches_accessories.php has some pictures of the kind of thing
[16:53] <cjwatson> http://www.gawds.org/show.php?contentid=96
[16:55] <foka_> cjwatson, Thank you so much for taking the time to look up that article for me!  :-)
[23:01] <TheMuso> evand: Whenever you are around, I'm happy to work through possible a11y issues with you, if you have a minute.