=== dieman_ is now known as dieman
seb128Caesar, pawalls: doh, I'm not awake, the glib and gvfs I pointed before, it should not use a ! before the strcmp comparaison00:08
pawallsseb128, *nods*00:08
seb128Caesar, pawalls: could you remove the ! in the glib change and try again?00:08
pawallsseb128, That was what I was going to do :-P00:09
pawallsseb128, However I'm wrapped up with another bug at the moment. Was hoping to get to it within the next 30 mins.00:09
seb128pawalls: ok, it's 1am here so I'll not be around for a while but I'll try to wait a bit, I would like to know if that fixes the issue00:09
pawallsseb128, Ok.. give me just a second then.00:11
seb128pawalls: thanks!00:11
infinityUnpacking mktemp (from .../mktemp_1.5-5ubuntu1_i386.deb) ...00:13
infinitydpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/mktemp_1.5-5ubuntu1_i386.deb (--unpack):00:13
infinity trying to overwrite `/bin/mktemp', which is also in package debianutils00:13
* infinity boggles that this hasn't been fixed yet...00:13
infinityslangasek: Dude, your changelog claims to have fixed the above bug, but I see no Replaces in the control info...00:14
pawallsseb128, FYI.. g_get_home_dir returns the exact entry from passwd, which (generally) doesn't have a '/' at the end.00:17
infinityslangasek: Another case of "write the changelog before the fix, get distracted, upload"? :)00:17
=== iceman is now known as gluck
slangasekhmm, odd00:17
pawallsSo if you had two users (pawalls and pawalls2 let's say), they one user would get the mounts of the other.00:17
pawallsseb128, My understanding based on looking at the glib code.00:18
slangasekinfinity: well first of all, it hasn't "been fixed yet" because it was un-fixed post-etch in the Debian package00:18
pawallsso we might want to change that to "%s/", g_get_home_dir()00:18
=== gluck is now known as Iceman
slangasekas for how I missed it in the upload, ... no idea00:18
seb128pawalls: well, neither the mount_point nor the user directory should have it no?00:19
pawallsseb128, You're using 'has_prefix'00:19
pawallsWhich means.. if someone mounted /home/pawalls2/something it would show up for pawalls00:19
infinityslangasek: Yeah, I know it was unfixed, I assumed mvo's upgrade testing would have caught it eons ago, that's all. :)00:19
pawallsWhich is why the trailing / is important.00:19
seb128pawalls: ah, that's a good point00:20
* pawalls nods.00:20
infinity... and now all my postinst scripts are segfaulting.00:22
=== Iceman is now known as gluck
pawallsseb128, Of course it is ;-)00:22
seb128pawalls: so it's working better now?00:28
pawallsseb128, compiling.00:28
pawallsseb128, Appears to have worked.. let me confirm on my other box so I can log completely out/into gnome00:41
seb128pawalls: excellent, thanks00:42
slangasekinfinity: mktemp fixed some more00:46
infinityslangasek: "Slightly more fixed"? :)00:48
infinityslangasek: (Thanks!)00:48
pawallsseb128, Looks good.00:49
pawallsseb128, Thanks again.00:49
pawallsseb128, I do recommend also adding the '/' onto the end of that comparison though.00:50
seb128Caesar, pawalls: ok, so nothing weird about the config you are using, that was just a typo in the suggested changed ;-) Sorry for the extra rebuilds, etc00:50
seb128pawalls: thanks00:50
pawallsseb128, Yeah.. I wasn't really paying much attention earlier.00:50
pawallsseb128, I told Ceasar I would hack up a patch and then kinda drifted onto other things.00:51
seb128pawalls: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=525866 btw00:51
ubotuGnome bug 525866 in gio "the user directory should not be considered as a mount to display" [Normal,Unconfirmed]00:51
seb128pawalls: both issues are described there00:51
seb128pawalls: I'll get the fix in hardy tomorrow00:51
pawallsseb128, Great!00:51
pawallsseb128, Thanks again for your help.00:52
seb128pawalls: you are welcome! and thanks for pointing the issue and testing the change ;-)00:52
seb128enough for today00:53
seb128good night everybody, see you tomorrow00:53
infinityslangasek: I'll be your VERY BEST FRIEND, if you do NEW processing for LRM (I fiddled with queues to make sure it built everywhere, should be good to go)01:45
* keescook slaps himself02:05
=== runur changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: asdas
=== runur changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive: Feature Freeze, DocumentationStringFreeze | Ubuntu 8.04 LTS Beta released | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/edgy/feisty/gutsy, #ubuntu+1 for hardy | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki
slangasekBFF-infinity: done02:12
=== foka__ is now known as foka_
KhajaviI want to install codeblock (C++ IDE)03:33
Khajavidpkg -i libcodeblocks0_8.02-0ubuntu1_i386.deb03:34
Khajavilibcodeblocks0 depends on libwxgtk2.8-0 (>= 2.8.7); however:03:34
Khajaviwhat do I do?03:34
protonchrisKhajavi: try apt-get -f install03:42
Khajaviprotonchris: this command didn't work03:44
=== kitterma is now known as ScottK2
geniiAre there any plans to incorporate some incremental apt system? (zsync or similar)04:38
geniiThere seems someone made a start on it ~7.04    https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/apt-sync  but it looks stalled04:40
useronebest mobo for linux?04:45
* RAOF fails to see how that's a question relating to the development of Ubuntu.04:46
rhineheart_many plans to include webmin back to the repo since it has been maintained already?04:51
LaserJockrhineheart_m: I doubt it, we have ebox04:56
rhineheart_mLaserJock, but ebox has limited features.. and I guess it is still immature05:06
pwnguinso LP provides openID -- is it going to consume it?05:09
LaserJockpwnguin: "not at this time"05:09
LaserJockrhineheart_m: well, if webmin's getting maintained in Debian it might come back. We dropped it when Debian did05:10
pwnguinLaserJock: so now it's a game of which is the longer timeline "eventually" (as in, eventually we see LP being open sourced) or "not at this time"05:11
LaserJockpwnguin: I don't think it really matters either way05:12
rhineheart_mcan you recommend the use of ISPConfig for ubuntu-server ed?05:12
geniirhineheart_m: I've set it up and used it under 6.06 but it was a headache to get operating correctly05:13
LaserJockthe point of the openID stuff was to allow various things (like forums, wiki, Fridge) to authenticat using LP05:13
pwnguinwhat about QA?05:14
rhineheart_mgenii, uhuh. really? but have you tried it with gutsy? or anybody here uses ISPConfig and has something to share too?05:14
geniirhineheart_m: I go from LTS to LTS so not bothering with 7.10 server. When 8.04 release comes I'll attempt it again if you want a review later05:16
LaserJockpwnguin: the Ubuntu QA sites?05:16
rhineheart_mgenii, is that a server? are you using it for server?05:16
geniirhineheart_m: Yes05:17
rhineheart_mgenii, is there something wrong with 7.10?05:18
pwnguinLaserJock: yea05:18
geniirhineheart_m: Probably not anything the matter with 7.10 server, just a matter of personal preference for me to stay with 6.06 until next LTS (8.04)05:22
rhineheart_mgenii, okay.. I got you.. so the next stable LTS version of ubuntu is 8.04 (Hardy)... any idea when it will be made available?05:23
geniirhineheart_m: April 24 apparently05:24
rhineheart_mokay.. so I will wait for its release.. I am actually to try debian..05:24
rhineheart_mgenii, have you tried debian/?05:28
geniirhineheart_m: Not on any of my personal boxes but I have to minimally deal with it on two servers05:29
rhineheart_mgenii, are you hosing several domains in your box?05:33
geniirhineheart_m: There were previously 3 domains for those two machines, it's since been reduced to one05:34
rhineheart_mokay.. how do you manage multiple domains in one box?05:35
geniirhineheart_m: Primary and scondary DNS answering to those domain name lookups, virtual hosts in apache and postfix05:36
LaserJockpwnguin: yeah, I imagine that would be a big part to. Anything we can get an openID module/plugin for.05:36
rhineheart_mgenii, okay.. I used actually webmin to do the task. I thought you're using something different..05:37
geniirhineheart_m: We ssh in and do everything in CLI05:38
geniiSince we are drifting OT and there seems no answer to my original question I'll leave you all to be05:40
dholbachgood morning06:31
=== asac_ is now known as asac
kagouGood morning06:55
warp10Good morning07:13
=== hunger_t is now known as hunger
hungerWhen will bzrzools become installable again? It always fails to install here (it keeps failing in "Preparing to replace bzrtools 1.0-1ubuntu3)07:34
hungermake that 1.2.0, not 1.0.07:35
dholbachbug 20197807:37
ubotuLaunchpad bug 201978 in python-central "pycentral crashed with OSError in prepare()" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/20197807:37
kagouhey seb12808:21
seb128lut kagou08:22
tkamppeterRiddell, ping08:43
\shdid anyone saw a break in d-i kernels and broadcom netextreme bcm5704 gbit nics on yesterdays daily (ubuntu-server flavour)09:00
pittiGood morning09:01
\shhey pitti09:01
ogra_cmpchey pitti09:03
\shogra_cmpc, do you need somehow the debian-edu package?09:04
\shogra_cmpc, well, it ftbfs on lpia and amd64...09:06
\shogra_cmpc, that's why I'm asking09:06
ogra_cmpc\sh, nothing to do with me, its the defaults for the debian-edu cd/distro09:08
\shcjwatson, where can I find the udeb for the NIC drivers which are loaded from d-i during install? I thought they were under pool/main/l/linux/09:14
pitticalc: any chance to fix bug 114503 before you upload o-l10n?09:30
ubotuLaunchpad bug 114503 in ubuntu-meta "language-support-* packages depend on Firefox, Thunderbird and Open Office Writer on Ubuntu and Kubuntu" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/11450309:30
pittiit's trivial, but serious09:30
pittitrivial to fix, I mean09:30
mantiena-baltixhello all09:31
pitticalc: ah, you uploaded already09:31
mantiena-baltixdoko_: hi09:31
dholbachKeybuk: can you say a bit more about your "answer" in bug 211159? :)09:34
ubotuLaunchpad bug 211159 in udev "prevent create_devices in postinst from failing" [Low,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/21115909:34
\shdamn...looks like yesterdays iso of ubuntu-server is borked09:35
FujitsuWhy did this morning's upgrade throw me back to ubuntulooks, and apparently remove the option to go back to the much nicer Human/Murrine?09:36
seb128Fujitsu: because ubuntulooks looks better and the other themes were buggy09:37
\shFujitsu, that was announced...09:37
seb128Fujitsu: and it has been decided to roll back09:37
seb128though I agree that could have kept the corresponding gtkrc variants, didn't hurt09:37
seb128you need to ask to kwwii and mvo about that09:37
FujitsuI knew the default was being changed, but I didn't think it'd remove the option.09:38
Fujitsuubuntulooks looks a whole lot worse, IMO.09:38
seb128Fujitsu: that's a joke, right? the other theme had blue tooltips and some very visible bugs09:38
FujitsuErm? My tooltips were a pleasant orange.09:38
seb128I had blue at some places09:39
seb128that was not tooltips I think09:39
seb128but the nautilus bars at the top of the burn location for example09:39
FujitsuHmm, that was orange too.09:39
dholbachI didn't have anything in blue either09:40
seb128maybe you used an another theme than me09:40
Keybukdholbach: ?09:40
Keybukdholbach: vserver prevents the postinst from creating device nodes09:40
seb128anyway I'm not the one who decided09:40
Keybukudev cannot work without those device nodes09:40
Keybuktherefore the postinst has to fail09:40
seb128and I think ubuntulooks looks better09:40
Keybukit looks like Launchpad rudely discarded my comment09:41
pittimvo: lts-ubuntu> eww09:41
dholbachKeybuk: ok, thanks09:42
mvopitti: yeah :(09:42
pittimvo: does it get much better if removed packages get purged?09:42
mvopitti: interessting questions, I can test that in a bit09:43
Keybukdholbach: sometimes I think I put the comment under the add a comment bit, and then change the status09:43
KeybukLP UI bug :-/09:43
dholbachKeybuk: np09:44
Keybukdholbach: if postinst fails in create_devices, you won't have /dev/null, /dev/console and other useful things ;)09:45
dholbachKeybuk: I just purged udev - I just thought it'd be useful if udev didn't break in postinst - but I agree it's a special case where it probably doesn't make sense09:46
mantiena-baltixcalc: hi, are you online ? I'm backporting OpenOffice 2.4 to Ubuntu 7.10 (Gutsy), maybe you already did this job ?09:46
Keybukthat would mask failures on legitimate systems, e.g. disk full09:46
dholbach*nod* fine with me09:46
ogra_cmpcFujitsu, orange ? do you have edubuntu-artwork installed ? that uses orange and a dark red by default09:47
Fujitsuogra_cmpc: It was the correct Ubuntu orange. No, I don't have it installed.09:47
ogra_cmpcah, k09:47
mantiena-baltixdoko_: or maybe you can tell me something about OOo 2.4 backport to Gutsy ?09:50
doko_mantiena-baltix: no, do you want to make one?09:53
mantiena-baltixdoko_: I'm backporting OpenOffice 2.4 to Ubuntu 7.10 (Gutsy) now :) (firsty try was unsuccessful because of incorrect build-deps - mono-1.0-dev doesn't exist in gutsy). I'm wondering maybe someone already did this job and I don't need to backport openoffice 2.4 ?09:56
doko_mantiena-baltix: no, don't know of anybody who did it09:57
\shcjwatson, it seems, something went wrong with the ubuntu-server daily cd building yesterday...09:58
mantiena-baltixdoko_: ok, then I will replace mono-1.0-devel and mono-2.0-devel dependancies with ones from gutsy and try again :)09:59
Ngmjg59: I think that in conjunction with doing the network module unload on suspend, we should do an init.d/networking restart on resume, otherwise some things get very confused10:03
Ngmjg59: i.e. the manual network configurmatron sees no devices on resume without restarting networking10:03
cjwatson\sh: they are. nic-modules10:08
cjwatson\sh: I imagine it's just kernel version out of sync with d-i10:08
=== cjwatson changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive: Feature Freeze, DocumentationStringFreeze | Ubuntu 8.04 LTS Beta released | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/edgy/feisty/gutsy, #ubuntu+1 for hardy | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs
\shcjwatson, yep..looks like...10:09
mantiena-baltixdoko_: btw, maybe you know when calc will be online ?10:09
ogra_cmpcmantiena-baltix, US timezone ... rather in your afternoon10:10
\shcjwatson, the nic-modules packages are missing (well more then 3/4 of the packages in this dir are missing...) I think it was really the -14 upload which bugged ... coincidence10:10
cjwatson\sh: it's not buggy.10:10
mantiena-baltixogra_cmpc: thanks10:11
cjwatson\sh: it's just that we haven't uploaded d-i to match it yet.10:11
cjwatson\sh: please don't file a bug about this - this always happens if we don't get the timing just right.10:11
\shcjwatson, won't do that anyhow...that's why I was pinging you :)10:13
cjwatson\sh: I'll bring things back into sync today10:14
\shcjwatson, ok..because right now, I'm unable to test the >2TB patch :)10:14
IvshtiWhy dont we include graphical configuration tools in Ubuntu?10:26
IvshtiLike the tools in Mandrake/Mandriva?10:26
IvshtiI mean tools like drakconf, so the user can easly configure the system.10:27
seb128Ivshti: to configure what?10:27
seb128Ivshti: ubuntu has graphical configuration tools10:28
ogra_cmpcseb128, mandrake indeed, else it wouldnt be called drakconf :P10:28
seb128ogra_cmpc: ah, right ;-)10:28
ogra_cmpcIvshti, what are you missing from the shipped tools ?10:28
IvshtiTest Mandriva and you will see10:29
Ivshtieverything is in one control panel10:29
pwnguinwell thats constructive., lets just take a break from the final strech in an LTS to install mandriva10:29
seb128Ivshti: that's not the question10:30
Ivshtiyou start drakeconf, and from there you can configure all the things, while in ubuntu you must search for the needed tool10:30
seb128Ivshti: the question is what option is lacking in the current ubuntu tools10:30
mantiena-baltixIvshti: Ubuntu has control panel, just install gnome-main-menu package and add "Start" menu applet to your panel10:30
seb128Ivshti: that's a design decision, a zillion options in one dialog is not something easier to use10:30
seb128Ivshti: run gnome-control-center?10:31
Ivshtifor example I want to resise a partition... In Mandrake/Mandriva I just start drakeconf (one way or another) and I click on "manage disk partitions"10:31
Ivshtiin ubuntu I must search for Gparted10:31
Ivshtiand what if I dont know what is Gparted :D10:31
IvshtiA user will search for "configure computer" or "configure partitions" or something like this10:31
ogra_cmpcso you are missing a partition editor in the default install, what else ?10:32
seb128Ivshti: it's called partition manager in the menu, it's as easy to search for it there than in a dialog which has zillion options10:32
Ivshtihmm, the control panel must be build-in10:32
seb128Ivshti: no thanks10:32
Ivshtisorry, It was "Gparted" in the version I've tested :D10:32
mantiena-baltixIvshti: control panel is already build-in since Ubuntu 7.1010:32
mantiena-baltixIvshti: which Ubuntu version you use ?10:32
IvshtiNo, I mean "7.10", I am 100 % sure10:33
ogra_cmpcmantiena-baltix, its not set as default, we disaabled it because it had usability issues vs the menu structure10:33
Amaranthmantiena-baltix: it is disabled10:33
IvshtiI will take a look next time I start Ubuntu10:33
ogra_cmpc(takes about three times as long to get to any option that way ... you have to wait until teh panel started and then search your optionn)10:33
ogra_cmpcIvshti, alt+f2 and run gnome-control-center10:34
IvshtiYes, of cource10:34
IvshtiI saw that10:34
pwnguinpersonally, i'd call the presence of keyring-manager in both prefs and administration a usability bug10:35
Ivshti(I am not running ubuntu, but I am runnning gnome)10:35
Ivshtithanks, a tip: just put this in the "System" Gnome menu10:35
AmaranthIvshti: No10:36
AmaranthRead what was just said about that10:36
mantiena-baltixIvshti: look at the contents of /etc/lsb-release file - Ubuntu version should be mentioned there10:36
ogra_cmpcIvshti, we diliberately dont10:36
Amaranthgnomecc also takes some time to load10:36
ogra_cmpcuntil the usability of such integrated stuff is on par with the meu system used curretly10:36
Amaranthi can view the menu and load the thing i want by the time gnomecc starts10:37
mantiena-baltixIvshti: you could report a wishlist bug about putting gnome-control-center launcher in the System menu10:37
ogra_cmpcmantiena-baltix, ugh10:37
AmaranthThe main problem I have with it is that it pretends to be something special when it's really just a weird display of a menu10:38
IvshtiThis gnome-control-center is very good.10:38
ogra_cmpcseb128, btw, what about movig baobab ad the printer thingie from accesoires to system tools as well if we keep system tools10:38
seb128ogra_cmpc: we are getting ride of system tools again I think10:38
IvshtiBut how will one new user know about it10:38
AmaranthIvshti: They won't, that's why it is hidden10:39
seb128ogra_cmpc: users reactions on the list show they prefer not having it in the default install10:39
ogra_cmpcseb128, ah, good ...10:39
mantiena-baltixogra_cmpc: lots of users feels better when they have "control center" - why don't allow them to use  it ?10:39
ogra_cmpcyeah, understandable10:39
IvshtiAnd... that is a  very bad idea.10:39
ogra_cmpcmantiena-baltix, because itsd totally confusing :)10:39
AmaranthIvshti: If you like it you can use it, don't force your choice on others10:39
AmaranthIvshti: There are serious problems with it10:40
mantiena-baltixIvshti: I support you, so you could report a wishlist bug about putting gnome-control-center launcher in the System menu10:40
IvshtiAnd... here is the question... why dont the ubuntu developers put a tool like drakeconf10:40
\shda pitti is blogging :) wow :)10:41
IvshtiLike gnome-control-center but without bugs10:41
mantiena-baltixIvshti: some Linux distributions already uses this, for example Novell (Suse) Linux, Baltix Linux and others10:41
ogra_cmpcIvshti, what bugs ?10:41
AmaranthAs soon as it starts as fast as clicking the menu and does something more useful than the menu I'm all for it10:41
IvshtiI just want easyer ubuntu :D10:41
seb128Ivshti: because it's not better than what we have now10:41
seb128Ivshti: ubuntu is easy10:41
pwnguinIvshti: because Ubuntu chooses to support upstream developers instead of starting yet another project?10:41
Ivshtiyes, I know is easy10:41
AmaranthRight now the gnomecc is just a slower way to access the same thing the menu gives you10:41
IvshtiI've tryed Slackware, that means I know Ubuntu is easy (if you get the idea)10:42
seb128Ivshti: how hard is it to read labels in a menu rather than on an canvas?10:42
seb128Ivshti: gnome-control-center just lists the menu items in a grid10:42
IvshtiYes, but it's litle bit better when all things are in one grid10:43
seb128no it's not10:43
mantiena-baltixAmaranth: gnomecc is slow for you, but lots of users feels better when they have "control center" - why don't allow them to use  it ?10:43
Ivshtibecause some tools are in the applications menu ;)10:43
ogra_cmpcIvshti, beyond telling us we miss gparted in the default install and that gcc has bugs you didnt specify with any details you didnt really tell anything that could convince yet10:43
seb128you have to search in 2 dimensions10:43
Amaranthmantiena-baltix: you can enable it in alacarte10:43
seb128Ivshti: you don't want to remove all the menu and put 80 items in a canvas10:43
IvshtiOkay, you are right...10:44
seb128Ivshti: gnome-control-center doesn't list applications tools10:44
mantiena-baltixAmaranth: I already did this in Baltix distro :)10:44
ogra_cmpcIvshti, if you can make convincing points i'm sure nobody would object changes, buut i didnt see anything that wo8uld convince me personally to do anything different to what ubuntu does atm10:44
Ivshti(But drakeconfig does list the applications tools)10:44
seb128Ivshti: so basically the gnome-control-center is an another view listing the same content as the system menu, not easier to use, just slower to load10:44
Siliciumhow i can change the font color of the ubuntu isolinux bootmenu? i dont want to hack the source if is possible10:44
cjwatsonSilicium: which version?10:45
ogra_cmpcIvshti, how about making a real comparison with pro and con lists and send that to the ubuntu-devel-discuss mailinglist ? :)10:45
seb128Ivshti:  you can use kubuntu it you want complicated interface listing zillion options10:45
* Amaranth hides10:45
ogra_cmpcseb128, !10:45
Siliciumcjwatson: u 8.04 isolinux 3.5310:45
mantiena-baltixseb128: gnomecc is easier for newbies, because it has search entry, also it's easier for Windows OS users10:45
ion_Awesome bug. :-D gdm played the login sound, like, twenty times and then played the end of the sample again probably as many times.10:45
cjwatsonSilicium: play with 'foreground' and 'background' in /isolinux/gfxboot.cfg10:46
seb128mantiena-baltix: I'm not convinced10:46
cjwatsonSilicium: the names are actually sort of backwards, sorry10:46
Siliciumthere are any documentations about?10:46
ogra_cmpcion_, it just wants to tell you its *really* there now10:46
cjwatsonSilicium: afraid not, as far as I know10:46
cjwatsonSilicium: Ubuntu uses 'background=0xB6875A', for example10:46
ion_ogra: Yeah, "why don't you login already?!?!!"10:46
cjwatsonwhich is actually the foreground font colour *cough*10:46
Siliciumso i use a Background splash.pcx10:46
Siliciumand the font color is blue10:47
cjwatsonright, so set background=10:47
Amaranthmantiena-baltix: That's the problem with most of the SLED stuff. It makes it somewhat easier for new users but doesn't grow with you as you become a more advanced user10:47
mantiena-baltixIvshti: If you wanna to have some applications listed in gnome-control-center you could report a wishlist bug about that in launchpad or gnome bugzilla ;)10:47
Siliciumcjwatson: ok10:47
Siliciumcjwatson: i will try, thanks :)10:47
pwnguinion:  cant get gdm to even let me log in. i wonder if it's just playing nothing twenty times10:47
Amaranthmantiena-baltix: With a menu a new user can scan it slowly reading for the thing they need, the more advanced user has muscle memory built up for where in the menu the thing they want is and just fly right to it10:48
ogra_cmpcpwnguin, do you use a facebrowser ? someone had probs here yesterday with that10:48
mantiena-baltixAmaranth:  you shouldn't tell this to me - I'm advanced user10:48
pwnguinogra_cmpc: yea =/10:48
IvshtiOh yes, is it legal to include wine in ubuntu?10:48
ogra_cmpcpwnguin, switch it off until its fixed then :)10:48
mantiena-baltixIvshti: yes, why not ?10:48
Ivshti(Yeah, It's legal)10:48
cjwatsonwe aren't aware of legal problems with wine10:48
IvshtiBut why dont you include it?10:48
pwnguinIvshti: legal, but do you really want novices running random windows programs they find?10:48
cjwatsonright, the biggest problem with wine is that it can end up being an automatic spyware vector if you're not careful10:49
LamegoIvshti, because most people don't need it ?10:49
mantiena-baltixIvshti: Baltix distro already includes wine in default CD ;)10:49
AmaranthIvshti: Ubuntu is not a Windows replacement, it is a Windows alternative10:49
pwnguinor filing bugs against ubuntu when windows software doesn't work?10:49
IvshtiHmm... windows programs can crash ubuntu too.10:49
pwnguini mean, no offense to the wine people who work on ubuntu, but i imagine it'd be a hell of a triage load10:49
AmaranthIvshti: I mean it isn't supposed to be a drop-in replacement for Windows, installing WINE by default would make it seem that way10:50
IvshtiYeah, I know you are NOT trying to replace Windows...10:51
seb128mantiena-baltix: what do you remove from the baltix cd to ship wine?10:51
Amaranthprobably mono stuff10:51
IvshtiAnd, when speaking about mono...10:52
IvshtiWhy dont you include mono in Ubuntu10:52
AmaranthIvshti: f-spot and tomboy are installed by default10:52
Ivshti.NET replacement in uBuntu? Why not?10:52
mantiena-baltixAmaranth: btw, my view is slightly different from SLED - I think operating system should be easy to use for newbies and for advanced users. That's why Baltix has both ways to access system configuration - gnome-control-center and traditional System->Administration and System->Preferences menus ;)10:52
pwnguinIvshti: do you actually run ubuntu?10:52
IvshtiThat wont make Ubuntu to look like Windows replacement10:52
Siliciumcjwatson: nope, does not work10:53
IvshtiYes, of coure, I had it installed but... I've installed Mandriva10:53
mantiena-baltixseb128: you are asking what I removed from Ubuntu CD to have space for wine ?10:53
Amaranthtrying to remember how long ago mono stuff was added10:53
cjwatsonSilicium: it's what we do to make the text brown in Ubuntu menus, so I know it works10:53
pwnguinso right now, you cant check to see if your claims about what ubuntu does or doesn't do, etc, you can't actually check?10:53
Siliciumso if u use the original isolinux.bin, i have the old ubuntu 6.x menu10:53
ogra_cmpcAmaranth, yeah, around that10:53
Siliciumand in the 8.04 is the color also blue10:54
cjwatson"Ubuntu 6.x" isn't something that makes sense10:54
seb128mantiena-baltix: yes10:54
cjwatsonthe 6 is a year, not a series10:54
ion_Ok, audio is not the only problem. Ethernet doesn't work properly either. Dhcpdiscover goes out but it never gets the response, and there are errors about eth0 in dmesg.10:54
cjwatsonSilicium: no, the Ubuntu boot menu has brownish text in 8.0410:54
IvshtiUbuntu CD is... 695 MB... It has space for a litle bit more software10:54
ion_(After today's kernel upgrade)10:54
cjwatsonIvshti: *we do include mono in Ubuntu".10:54
Siliciumcjwatson: oO on my beta image not :D10:54
pwnguinoh poor seb10:54
pittiseb128: hm, seems your --language=python fix in apport now broke the pot, it does not have the glade strings any more10:54
* ogra_cmpc wonders which CD Ivshti is looking at10:55
pittiseb128: what's the syntax again for setting a particular format for a POTFILES.in entry?10:55
pwnguinIvshti: misstatement of the year10:55
seb128pitti: doh10:55
cjwatsonIvshti: the hard limit is 700MB, though10:55
IvshtiI am looking at 7.10!!10:55
IvshtiYou have 5 MB space!10:55
cjwatsonIvshti: which we intend to use for more localisation10:55
ogra_cmpcwhich we would fill with translations10:55
ogra_cmpcsnap :)10:55
cjwatsonSilicium: oh, right, server is wrong10:55
cjwatsonI'll fix that10:56
IvshtiAt least for installed Macromedia Flash player! :D That's very, very important!!10:56
Keybukif only stackable filesystems worked properly :-/10:56
pwnguinIvshti: there's plenty of consternation every release about what does or doesn't make the cut for space concerns10:56
Siliciumcan i use the isolinux.bin from the desktop version to fix it for me?10:56
cjwatsonSilicium: no, isolinux.bin is the same10:56
IvshtiNTFS in Ubuntu works perfectly, what is the problem about filesystems?10:56
cjwatsonSilicium: I told you what to put in gfxboot.cfg already10:56
Siliciumcjwatson: ya, but does not work :)10:56
pittiseb128: if I drop the option from Makevars, a "cd po/; intltool-update -p --verbose" works fine, hm10:57
cjwatsonSilicium: I am quite certain it does, because we use exactly that for Ubuntu (desktop)10:57
seb128pitti: how fine?10:57
AmaranthIvshti: adobe's flash will never be installed by default, it is closed source10:57
Siliciumcjwatson: i will try again10:57
cjwatsonSilicium: I'm afraid you must be doing it wrong somehow. Perhaps you have DOS line endings?10:57
pwnguinAmaranth: how soon till gnash is in?10:58
cjwatsonanyway, committed a fix for server10:58
Siliciumnoe, i have tried background=0x000000 (black) so no i try with exactly you line10:58
Amaranthpwnguin: i'm pulling for swfdec10:58
cjwatsonI expect background=0x000000 would make all the text go black10:58
cjwatsonlike I say, the naming is unfortunately reversed10:59
Siliciumyou line does also not work :D10:59
Siliciummhm can you paste me the whole isolinux.cfg?10:59
cjwatsonisolinux.cfg is not involved10:59
IvshtiAmaranth: Okay, but I think there is an open-source flash player. There are alot of flash players that have nothing to do with Adobe's flash player!10:59
cjwatsonI said gfxboot.cfg10:59
Siliciumiam sorry11:00
AmaranthIvshti: they are...not ready11:00
Amaranthto put it kindly11:00
Amaranthgetting better all the time though, so i'm still hoping11:00
ion_Ok, getting rid of kexec and rebooting fixed the problem. :-)11:00
cjwatsonIvshti: Keybuk was talking about something else with regard to stackable filesystems11:00
cjwatsonnot NTFS11:00
pwnguinogra_cmpc: so how do i turn off facebrowser without running gdm?11:00
mantiena-baltixseb128: Ubuntu CD has lots of unneeded stuff, for example unneeded help files, look at bug #80978 for example11:01
ubotuLaunchpad bug 80978 in baltix "[Suggest] Help *.deb packages for each languages" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/8097811:01
ogra_cmpcpwnguin, use startx and sudo gdmsetup or so ...11:01
pwnguinogra_cmpc: it just tells me that gdm is running.,11:01
Lamegomantiena-baltix, still those split languages files would need to be available on the Ubuntu cd11:02
AmaranthLamego: well, no11:04
mantiena-baltixLamego: not all - Ubuntu CD contains support for only most popular languages, while help files are shipper for all languages, even for not supported in CD11:04
Siliciumis it works :DD11:04
Siliciumcjwatson: thanks11:04
pwnguinogra_cmpc: or rather, it tells me that gdm isnt running, then closes11:04
Amaranthbut i doubt that would free up much space11:04
pwnguinwhich is... not helpful11:04
ogra_cmpcpwnguin, indeed11:05
mantiena-baltixAmaranth, Lamego: look how big is /usr/share/gnome/help folder in your system and you see11:05
cjwatsonSilicium: great11:05
ogra_cmpcmight be that you cant get around ediuting the config manually11:05
ogra_cmpcpwnguin, well, you are using unreleased software ....11:06
mantiena-baltixAmaranth, Lamego: in default edubuntu CD (which I currently use) help files uses 140 MB !11:07
cjwatsonmantiena-baltix: I think we probably should look at doing something about it, but not for 8.04; getting it right (e.g. not inadvertently shipping systems without any help) will take a bit of effort11:07
pwnguinyea, its just annoying to have to dig into gdm.conf when ive not done that before, this close to release11:07
cjwatsonmantiena-baltix: it compresses quite well, so it's not quite that bad11:07
ogra_cmpcmantiena-baltix, define "default edubuntu CD" :) edubuntu is an addon to ubuntu with hardy11:08
Amaranthogra_cmpc: wait, what?11:09
ogra_cmpc(with about 200M spare space atm, so who cares about size :) )11:09
* Amaranth missed that one11:09
mantiena-baltixcjwatson: only XML part of help files compesses well, but in /usr/share/gnome/help there are a lot of .png files, which doesn't compress at all11:09
cjwatsonmantiena-baltix: they are often identical across languages, so in terms of a tarball containing all of them they do in fact compress rather well11:09
mantiena-baltixogra_cmpc: I'm use Edubuntu 7.10 LiveCD now11:09
ogra_cmpcah, k11:09
mantiena-baltixcjwatson: it's a pitty, but png files are different for several languages, like zh, jp or ko11:10
cjwatsonmantiena-baltix: sure, I didn't say "always identical".11:10
ogra_cmpcAmaranth, we had the edu software on a separate cd anyway .... so it was cleverer to move over completely and put the core bits only edubuntu had (ltsp) inot ubuntu11:10
cjwatsonand I said "compresses quite well" (i.e. significantly less than the 140 MB you cited), not "compresses brilliantly"11:11
cjwatsonso please stop nitpicking :)11:11
mantiena-baltixcjwatson: :-P11:11
ogra_cmpcmantiena-baltix, the sad thing is that svg supports localization since years (2003 or so) and that still pngs are used11:11
ogra_cmpcbut thats not in our hands and requires upstream to do the switch11:12
mantiena-baltixogra_cmpc: I think png are used in help because most of them are screenshots11:12
ogra_cmpcwith text on them ;)11:13
ogra_cmpcmenus, toolbars ....11:13
mantiena-baltixogra_cmpc: yea, but do you know a way how to make vectorized screenshot ? ;)11:13
AmaranthOS X screenshots are pdfs11:13
ogra_cmpcthat surely would requirre some thinking, but there are ways11:14
pwnguinAmaranth: are they bitmaps embedded in pdfs?11:14
ogra_cmpceven potracing a png can work ...11:14
Amaranthpwnguin: i don't think so, the display server uses something similar to pdf internally11:14
Amaranthbtw, my help folder is 176M and compresses (bz2) to 65M11:15
ogra_cmpcmantiena-baltix, i didnt say its easy or straghtforward but the capabnility is there since ages, someone needs to write software to make use of it11:15
* cjwatson uploads GRUB with EDD support; please let me know about any device ordering regressions11:15
cjwatsonit won't activate unless you boot with edd=on, so I'm not too concerned about migrating people's menu.lst files11:16
ogra_cmpcwhat does it do ? alter the device.map ?11:16
mantiena-baltixAmaranth: I quess you need only about 50 Mb of help files (quess you know not more than 5 languages :) )11:17
cjwatsonit alters the way device.map is constructed if there is none11:17
cjwatsonif device.map is already there, it won't do anything, so definitely no migration problem11:17
ogra_cmpcso it cant affect the existing one11:17
mantiena-baltixAmaranth: how big are OS X screenshots' ? I mean are they real vector PDF's or only bitmap inside PDF ?11:18
pittimvo: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/bzr/hwdb--mvo/po/POTFILES.in -- did those type: fields ever work for you? I just tried to use them in apport, but they seem to be entirely ignored11:21
pittimvo: I just get some weird perl warnings11:21
* ogra_cmpc guesses thats for old hwdb11:22
pittiright, it's ancient, but it's utterly hard to find a documentation about POTFILES.in format11:22
pitti/usr/bin/intltool-update still has code to process it AFAICS11:22
cjwatsonKeybuk: it just occurred to me (again) that device.map has device names not UUIDs, and so can break on upgrade when devices get moved around; we should do something about that for 8.1011:23
mvopitti: I think this stuff worked once, but I was struggling recently with it too and I think it stopped :/11:23
pittimvo: ok, thanks11:23
seb128we should get danilo to fix it11:24
seb128he's upstream for intltool11:24
pitti    foreach (@buf_potfiles) {11:36
pitti        s/^\[.*]\s*//;11:36
pitti    }11:36
pittiseb128: ^ no wonder that [...] doesn't do anything; WTF??11:36
seb128pitti: weird11:37
cjwatsonpitti: what's weird?11:44
pittiseb128: hm, seems the main flaw is that it tries to put it all into just one xgettext call, which just doesn't work if you mix glade and python files11:45
pitticjwatson: I'm trying to figure out why the [type: gettext/glade] etc. syntax does not work in POTFILES.in11:45
cjwatsonpitti: I know, but I was wondering what specifically you were commenting on in the above code11:45
pitticjwatson: that seems to be the bit which throws out all the [...] tags11:45
cjwatsonoh, you mean the way it's explicitly stripped off, right :)11:46
seb128pitti: maybe ask danilo about the issue, as said he's upstream for intltool and might have an idea about the issue11:46
pittiright, I'll do that11:46
seb128I already pinged him about that before doing the apport changes11:47
seb128that's him who suggested the change I did11:47
phoenix_About a month ago, I reported a bug, and alas I know I'm not the only one that reports bugs, but this one causes a kernel panic in the raid controller device driver - and I was wondering why the bug is still "undecided".... and I'm a little bit puzzled how bugs are being "decided" to be fixed...11:48
cjwatsonphoenix_: that's the priority; don't stress too much about the priority; some people don't do all the paperwork11:48
cjwatsonphoenix_: about kernel bugs, #ubuntu-kernel is the best place to ask11:49
phoenix_cjwatson: AFAICS I can't give any hints about the priority, I think that's something the being set by the person that does the triage...11:50
phoenix_cjwatson: thanks for the channel hint, I'll go ask them about it11:51
pittiseb128: ok, h4ck1sh, but works: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/apport/ubuntu/revision/109212:04
Siliciumcjwatson: how works the language selection in isolinux? in isolinux.cfg is the english version written but when i use "german" the menu entries goes german, where are saved the german version of the menu entrie?12:13
davmor2evand: ping12:17
tkamppeterRiddell, hi12:18
cjwatsonSilicium: they're in /isolinux/de.tr12:28
cjwatsonSilicium: that's in a weird compiled format, though - the version in the gfxboot-theme-ubuntu source package is probably more comprehensible, though12:28
cjwatsons/, though$//12:28
mantiena-baltixdoko_ , calc: maybe you know if I should set BUILD_JARS_NATIVE=n in OOo2.4 Gutsy backport ?12:32
mantiena-baltixdoko_: in gutsy's (OOo 2.3) debian/rules file BUILD_JARS_NATIVE was set to 'n', while in OOo 2.4 from Hardy it's set to 'y'12:34
Riddellhi tkamppeter12:36
Siliciumcjwatson: how i can create/compile that file?12:37
cjwatsonSilicium: build the gfxboot-theme-ubuntu source package in the usual way for Debian-format source packages12:39
loolsoren: Hmm I wanted to have a look at ubuntu-vm-builder again, but I don't see the rewrite branch anymore and I don't see its merge in the trunk branch12:43
twi_ping on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/elisa/+bug/201133 ?13:06
ubotuLaunchpad bug 201133 in elisa "Elisa doesn't start" [Undecided,Confirmed]13:06
twi_it's quite trivial it's only a dep issue13:06
Siliciumincludes the actual beta desktop cd a live environment?13:12
cjwatsonSilicium: yes, please try it13:13
Siliciumcjwatson: thanks :)13:17
Riddellseb128: starting today's Ubuntu Desktop live CD I get "There was an error starting the GNOME Settings Daemon"13:23
Keybukcjwatson: just been reading the glibc incident report13:23
Keybukit occurs to me that we still haven't fixed the initramfs-tools bug that Mark ran into13:23
Keybukwhich is also my fault, since I've known about that bug for about two years ;)13:23
lamonthrm... I suspect that hardy-alternate-ia64.iso needs some pruning... 741M is slightly larger than my largest CD-R media...13:25
* lamont wonders if the daily-live dvd for ia64 (830MB) stands a chance of working, or if ia64/hppa should really just have server isos13:26
cjwatsonKeybuk: could you add that to the report?13:33
Riddellpitti: bug 197819 can be fixed with making jockey use DEBIAN_PRIORITY to high, shall I change that in bzr?13:35
ubotuLaunchpad bug 197819 in jockey "[Hardy]b43-fwcutter install script fails to fetch firmware in first run" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19781913:35
pittiRiddell: ooh13:35
pittiRiddell: but isn't that the default priority anyway?13:35
Riddellpitti: it's currently "critical"13:35
pittiRiddell: hm, still weird; the question should default to 'true'13:36
cjwatsondebconf's default priority is high, for the record13:36
pitticjwatson: right, jockey overrides it to critical, so that the question isn't askd13:37
cjwatsonwhy do you say the question should default to true13:37
cjwatsonthere's no Default in the .templates13:37
pitticjwatson: that code is still from bcm43xx-fwcutter, where that was the case13:37
cjwatson        db_get bcm43xx-fwcutter/cut_firmware || true13:38
cjwatson        if [ "$RET" = "true" -o "$RET" = "false" ]; then13:38
cjwatson                db_set b43-fwcutter/cut_firmware $RET13:38
cjwatsonunrelated, but that's just bizarre code13:38
cjwatson"let's put it back, just in case cosmic rays hit it"13:38
pittiwhen I apt-get install b43-fwcutter, the dialog defaults to true at least13:38
cjwatsonthat's probably chance13:38
cjwatsonI don't think it's defined what happens13:39
pittihah, indeed13:39
pittisudo DEBIAN_PRIORITY=critical apt-get install b43-fwcutter13:39
cjwatsonand also depends on whether you had previously purged b43-fwcutter or just removed it13:39
pittiRiddell: hm, then let's ask the debconf question; at least it's explicit then13:40
cjwatsonI assume the reason it should be asked is that you might not have network access13:41
cjwatsonBTW, I was wondering if we should promote b43-fwcutter to main and put it on the CD13:41
pittiwhich you need most of the time anyway to get b43-fwcutter itself13:41
cjwatsonbecause you might be able to use it without network access if you have Mac OS installed13:42
pittiyeah, in that case it makes sense13:42
seb128Riddell: do you get it every time? does running gnome-settings-daemon manually does the same?13:42
pittiSize: 1641813:42
cjwatson(real case, this came up with a friend yesterday)13:42
cjwatsonseems pretty much the same as ndiswrapper to me13:42
Riddellcalc: today's livefs didn't get built with "The following packages have unmet dependencies:  openoffice.org-help-en-gb: Depends: openoffice.org-writer but it is not going to be installed" (curious since openoffice.org-writer is installed already)13:42
Riddellseb128: I'm afraid I've rebooted into other things13:43
seb128Riddell: ok, that's alright13:43
seb128Riddell: if there is an issue we will figure soon enough13:44
Riddellevand: recent live CDs won't launch ubiquity from the desktop icon, .xsession-errors has 'error: g_spawn_command_line_sync: Failed to execute child process "/usr/lib/ubiquity/bin/ubiquity kde_ui" (No such file or directory)'13:46
Riddellevand: strangely starting ubiquity on a command line works fine13:47
pittiRiddell: I'll upload a fix now, ok?13:47
Riddellpitti: sure13:47
Riddellpitti: what are you changing?13:47
pittiRiddell: I think I'll just drop the DEBIAN_PRIORITY setting altogether13:47
pittiRiddell: b43cutter is the only package so far where we actually wanted it, and now we don't any more13:48
cjwatsonRiddell: that sounds like it genuinely is quoted13:48
cjwatsonas in, the file "/usr/lib/ubiquity/bin/ubiquity kde_ui" does not exist13:49
Riddellah hah13:49
Riddellcommand line "ubiquity" is fine but "ubiquity kde_ui" as used in the .desktop file gives me that error13:50
cjwatsonhmm, I wonder if hal-lock changed13:50
cjwatson(see /usr/bin/ubiquity for why I'm wondering this)13:50
mjg59cjwatson: Hrm. I just tried to create a partition flagged as "dont_use" in ubiquity, got some CD access and now it's hung13:52
mjg59(yesterday's daily)13:52
cjwatsonmjg59: yes, there's a bug about that13:52
mjg59cjwatson: It's, uh, running du?13:52
cjwatsonbug 132611 is the one I know about13:53
ubotuLaunchpad bug 132611 in ubiquity "Crash of installer when partitioning - "dont_use" filesystem" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/13261113:53
mjg59du -s --block-size=1 /rofs13:53
cjwatsonit's probably looping through check.d13:53
mjg59Ah, yeah, that could be it13:53
mjg59Yes, pid count is rising rapidly13:54
mjg59Anything I can save you before starting again?13:54
cjwatsonI bet "PartmanOptionError: partman-target/choose_method should have None (dont_use) option" is in /var/log/installer/debug?13:54
cjwatsonright, in that case no need13:55
mjg59That's the final line13:55
mjg59Any workaround?13:55
cjwatsonI'll see if we can figure out what's going on, sorry about that13:55
mjg59No problem13:55
_MMA_Not sure if I should ask here or in -devel but has anyone see the "Failed to mount /" issue on the resent Alt disks?13:56
_MMA_After partitioning that is.13:56
cjwatsonI think you can create it outside ubiquity and then just delete any automatic mountpoint that gets added13:56
mjg59cjwatson: Hm. Doing sudo killall ubiquity results in me being launched into a full desktop session13:56
cjwatsonmjg59: that's a sort of awkward not-sure-what-to-do thing13:56
mjg59I appreciate that this is not obviously a bug :)13:56
pittiKeybuk: if I wanted a command ("rm -f /media/.hal-mtab") to be executed on boot, but *not* on /etc/init.d/hal restart, could I write an upstart script for that?13:57
cjwatsonat least in a desktop you can maybe do something about it13:57
kagouwho does the update of language/translations packages ?13:57
Keybukpitti: what about on runlevel changes?13:57
pittikagou: me, and in the future, ArneGoetje13:57
ion_How about putting hal-mtab to a tmpfs?13:57
pittiKeybuk: preferably not13:57
Keybukpitti: does it have to be in /media ?13:58
pittiion_: I thought about moving it to /var/run/hal-mtab, but that requires a large upstream patch13:58
Keybukpitti: isn't that precisely what /var/run is for?13:58
pittiKeybuk: right; currently pondering what's easier (remove on boot, or introduce a huge patch to hal to move it)13:58
Keybukpitti: you could add it to bootmisc13:58
ion_ln -s? :-)13:58
pitti^ which would go along with a postinst snippet to move it, and maybe a compatibiliyt symlink in /media in case other programs read hal-mtab as well13:59
kagouoh nice pitti, many changes are done (installer/kernel image) can you do a recent sync for these package, as this, next daily-iso will be a good piece for tests13:59
pittikagou: they are automatically updated in hardy twice a week13:59
kagouoh sorry, i didn't know13:59
pittiKeybuk: in fact I faintly remember adding that code in the past to bootclean or bootmisc, but it's not ATM; might got droped in a merge, not sure14:00
Keybukpitti: it could arguably just go in mtab.sh14:00
Keybuksince it's related14:00
pittiKeybuk: I just thought it would be cleaner to ship an upstart script for hal instead of cluttering other standard init scripts with hal stuff14:00
seb128Keybuk, pitti: meeting? ;-)14:01
pittiKeybuk: I can live with that :)14:01
pittimeeting, sure14:01
Keybukclutter - meh, HAL is essential ;P14:02
Keybuk(and will be increasingly so as davidz increasingly merges it with udev)14:03
Keybukpedro_: did you want to join #ubuntu-meeting for the desktop team meeting?14:03
pedro_Keybuk: going now14:04
lamontKeybuk: does hal know it is? :)14:07
cjwatsonmjg59: ok, apply http://paste.ubuntu.com/6426/ to /usr/lib/ubiquity/ubiquity/components/partman.py and restart the installer14:14
cjwatsonthe result is ugly (it should use translated text rather than 'dontuse') but at least it works14:14
james_wAmaranth: hi, I made some comments in bug 118936, do they make sense? Do you know of a good way we can fix this?14:28
ubotuLaunchpad bug 118936 in alacarte "Alacarte does not recover deleted menu items" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/11893614:29
mjg59cjwatson: Rebooted, I'm afraid :(14:36
cjwatsonmjg59: ok, well it works in my tests, so committed14:39
elmois anyone else getting messages from SANE on resume?14:40
* ogra_cmpc wishes he could resume first place :P14:42
ogra_cmpci'd appreciate any messages ... sane or not :P14:43
mjg59cjwatson: Do you know what the conclusion was about dealing with the usplash configuration?14:44
=== Sebast1an is now known as Sebastian
cjwatsonmjg59: yeah, I need to arrange for xauth to be passed through when ubiquity reconfigures usplash14:47
cjwatsonso usplash.postinst can get at the display14:47
mjg59cjwatson: Wurgh. I'm really not convinced that's the best way of doing this.14:47
mjg59I guess there are issues with getting ubiquity to write it, then?14:47
cjwatsonmjg59: it's usually not good for ubiquity to have excessive package-specific code14:49
cjwatsonmuch better for it to go in the package where at all possible14:49
cjwatsonit's technically possible to do it in ubiquity, but I'd really rather not unless all other avenues have been exhausted14:49
cjwatsonubiquity ends up ridiculously big and unmaintainable, and there are problems when packages change their configuration file formats, as they have a habit of doing14:50
mjg59cjwatson: Hrm. Yeah.14:50
cjwatsonI realise passing through DISPLAY and xauth is nasty as well, but14:51
kirklandjames_w: ping14:51
james_wkirkland: hi14:51
kirklandjames_w: hi, see https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-tools/+bug/20619814:52
ubotuLaunchpad bug 206198 in gnome-system-tools "network manager cannot authenticate" [Undecided,Confirmed]14:52
kirklandjames_w: i noticed you were the last one to upload to it, i think there's a missing dependency, debdiff attached14:52
james_wkirkland: yeah, I don't think I touched anything that would cause that, but the analysis seems sane14:53
james_wseb128: what do you think? ^14:53
kirklandjames_w: oh, yeah, sure, i'm not pointing the finger :-)14:53
kirklandjames_w: i'm just remarking that you seem to be close enough to the package to sponsor the diff :-)14:53
seb128james_w: that I hate g-s-t, looking at the bug ;-)14:53
james_wseb128: :-)14:53
james_wkirkland: I can't sponsor I'm afraid, seb128 sponsored my fix.14:54
kirklandjames_w: ah, okay.  keescook pointed me to seb128 anyway :-P14:54
seb128I'm not sure policykit-gnome is really required14:55
kirklandseb128: i can't unlock network-admin with out it14:55
seb128kirkland: you could use the command line policykit interface to grant your rights and then run the tool no?14:56
Siliciumi.e when i have installed fooapp.deb on my local machine, and then i create a live dist with remastersys, the foo application is on the image, or or only the base system?14:58
kirklandseb128: there's an "unlock" button at the bottom of the gui presented by network-admin.  how would the command line polkit-* help that?15:01
seb128kirkland: if you already have the credential it doesn't need to open the password dialog, it'll just unlock for you15:01
james_wso a recommends would be appropriate?15:02
kirklandjames_w: i think there's already a recommends15:02
seb128well, I'm pondering since we don't install recommends15:02
* seb128 looks at mvo15:02
seb128that's really mvo's fault then ;-)15:02
mvonot really, it was a joint fault of me and a missing seeds review15:03
seb128mvo: right, just teasing you, but not installing recommends is bad, it forces us to abuse depends or to have broken situations for users15:03
kirklandseb128: so to use the command line polkit-auth, at least some code would be required to acquire that credential if using the gui and not having policykit-gnome15:04
seb128kirkland: ?15:04
seb128kirkland: polkit-auth15:05
kirklandseb128: polkit-* ?  which one?15:05
seb128I don't understand your question15:05
mvoseb128: first thing I will upload in intrepid is a new apt15:06
* seb128 hugs mvo15:06
kirklandseb128: here's the use case....15:06
seb128kirkland: I understand the usecase thanks15:06
kirklandseb128: install a very, very minimal xubuntu system15:06
kirklandseb128: click on networking15:06
kirklandseb128: click on unlock15:06
kirklandseb128: go boom15:06
seb128kirkland: I'm pointing that xubuntu should have a recommends on policykit-gnome as ubuntu-desktop do if it's required15:07
\shwoot...ubuntu certified for sun hardware, certified by sun...that's a big shot..15:07
kirklandseb128: ah, okay15:08
seb128kirkland: gnome-system-tools should recommends it too15:09
kirklandseb128: okay, i see it recommends gksu15:11
seb128yes, that's wrong, I though I changed it when I did other changes this week but I didn't clean the changes and forgot that one or something15:12
kirklandseb128: okay, you want another debdiff, or do you have it?15:13
seb128attach a debdiff to the bug and subscribe the sponsors15:13
kirklandseb128:  sponsors being...15:14
kirklandseb128: yourself?15:14
kirklandseb128: and move the policykit-gnome from Required to Recommends?15:15
kirklandseb128: okay, and I'm moving policykit-gnome from Depends to Recommends, and removing gksu from Recommends?15:16
seb128kirkland: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess15:16
seb128kirkland: right15:16
james_wdoes anyone have a dapper vm image anywhere that I could get a copy of?15:24
kirklandseb128: done.  thanks for your help.15:24
seb128kirkland: you are welcome, thank you for your work15:25
james_wor alternatively and help on installing a dapper kernel on hardy?15:25
Keybukjames_w: let me know if that works ;)15:25
kirklandjames_w: /me shudders15:25
james_wit won't boot by default because it refuse to generate an initramfs15:25
Keybukthought it might do that15:25
james_wI've tried stopping udev from preventing it, but the organisation of /lib/modules has apparently changed as well15:26
kirklandjames_w: i have one, but it's 4G, and it'll be tuesday before you finish downloading it from me15:26
Keybukwhat kernel did we ship with dapper?15:26
Keybukah right15:27
KeybukI really don't think the hardy udev can work on that15:27
james_wno, it requires .17 IIRC15:27
Keybukuevent wasn't even introduced to .17 iirc15:27
elmoerr?  doesn't that some implications for upgrades?15:27
Keybukelmo: in the sense that you have to upgrade your kernel?15:27
Keybuk(from the supported one for the previous release, to the supported one for the current release)15:28
elmoKeybuk: well the current procedure doesn't upgrade it first15:28
Keybukit doesn't have to upgrade it *first*15:28
elmoKeybuk: so you run hardy udev on dapper kernel, at least for whle15:28
Keybukthe important thing is to upgrade it before you reboot ;)15:28
Keybukno you don't15:28
Keybukudev's upgrade leaves the existing one running15:28
elmoah, ok15:28
Keybukone of the major ways we differ from Debian15:28
cjwatsonthe existing daemon, but presumably new rules files15:28
cjwatsonany new uevent will go through those, right?15:29
Keybukcjwatson: right, but that's generally ok15:29
cjwatsonI thought there was some new syntax15:29
Keybukthe worst that happens is hotplugging breaks a little bit15:29
Keybukbut since you have a big "RESTART NOW!" thingy, that's ok :p15:29
cjwatsonRiddell: could you (get somebody to) try out my changes in ubiquity r2600? You'd need to test the "Use as:" bit in both partition creation and partition editing15:30
Keybuk"I just upgraded from dapper to hardy, haven't rebooted yet, but now my digital camera doesn't work" ... "reboot then"15:30
cjwatsonRiddell: the code is nasty at the moment because it isn't using a model/view design - I wasn't confident in doing that untested!15:30
cjwatsonbut should really be fixed at some point15:30
kirklandheno: ping15:30
kirklandheno: i see that you commented on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hplip/+bug/187403/15:31
ubotuLaunchpad bug 187403 in hplip "hplip or dependencies/dependents should explicitly depend on foomatic-filters" [Undecided,Triaged]15:31
KeybukI actually thought for a while about adding a udevcontrol command to tell it to stop reloading new rules15:31
Riddellcjwatson: let me look15:31
Keybukbut then everything that shipped a new udev rule would have to pre-depend on the new udev, etc.15:31
Keybukthat was messy15:31
kirklandheno: I think the same missing dependency needs to be added for hpijs.  looking for a sanity check......15:31
henokirkland: looking15:32
Riddellcjwatson, evand: I tracked down the g_spawn issue to a difference in the way gksudo and kdesu parse arguments, kdesu really work with quotes.  one workaround is to include a single line shell script to launch hal-lock and have kdesu run that15:34
henotkamppeter: will you update hpjis re bug 187403 ?15:34
ubotuLaunchpad bug 187403 in hplip "hplip or dependencies/dependents should explicitly depend on foomatic-filters" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18740315:34
kirklandheno: thanks, should I subscribe anyone else to this bug?15:34
kirklandheno: ie, i have a debdiff attached to it15:35
henokirkland: no, Till is the maintainer, just add a hpjis task15:35
kirklandheno: ;-)  thanks15:35
cjwatsonRiddell: shouldn't be necessary, we can control argument passing15:35
cjwatsonRiddell: so what does kdesu need when called from the shell?15:35
Riddellcjwatson: I can't find a way to make it happy.  it either passes it as one file, or it splits everything up (in which case hal-lock just runs "ubiquity" which is mostly ok but will run the wrong frontend if the gtk one is installed)15:37
Riddellkdesu doesn't really work with quotes, is what I ment above15:38
cjwatsonthere aren't any quotes, though ...15:47
cjwatsonoh, I think I see what you mean15:47
cjwatsonthat's awful15:47
cjwatsonis kdesudo less badly broken?15:47
cjwatson(and/or usable here at all)15:47
Riddellcjwatson: our kdesu is kdesudo (it's a dpkg-divert) and we made it work in this way to match kdesu's ugly behaviour15:48
cjwatsondoes it work differently if called as kdesudo?15:49
Riddellcjwatson: no15:49
cjwatsonthat sounds like it might be a plan ...15:49
cjwatsonadverbial commands shouldn't muck with spaces like that - that sort of shenanigans can end up being a security hole15:50
cjwatsonand at the very least tends to cause knock-on bugs like this15:50
emgentheya people15:59
cjwatsonRiddell: I'm looking at a workaround that doesn't involve yet another script, though16:00
cjwatsonRiddell: (and instead involves self-execing)16:00
cjwatsonanyway, phone ...16:00
tkamppeterheno, I will do so, hpijs contains a PPD generator now and this one generates foomatic-rip-based PPDs.16:03
henotkamppeter: thanks16:04
tkamppeterRiddell, hi16:04
cjwatsonRiddell: could you try http://paste.ubuntu.com/6429/ applied to /usr/bin/ubiquity? I don't have kdesudo installed here at the moment, but I think that will work16:04
Riddellcjwatson: yes, that works fine16:10
cjwatsongreat, will commit that16:10
Riddelltkamppeter: I'll add back hpijs-ppds to the Kubuntu CDs16:11
tkamppeterRiddell, thanks, and check whether the Hp inkjets really appear in the KDE Printing Manager, as in bug 209220 they say that the package was already installed and the printer still not listed.16:13
ubotuLaunchpad bug 209220 in system-config-printer-kde "HP DeskJet 5550 not supported in Hardy" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/20922016:13
Riddelltkamppeter: ok.  a shame I wasn't able to fix it properly for this release, hopefully next time16:14
Tonio_cjwatson: I'll try to add a gksu cmdline compatibility layer for kdesudo in the future16:23
Tonio_cjwatson: probably a -g option or something16:23
Tonio_cjwatson: unfortunately we can't get rid of the kdesu compatibility by default in order not to break everything...16:23
Keybukrandom QoTD: does anyone know who we can complain to about Google Calendar?16:41
ogra_cmpcKeybuk, ask leslie ?16:43
KeybukI never seem to find her online16:43
ogra_cmpcshe might have a googlemail account *g*16:45
KeybukI don't16:45
Keybuktbh, I'm after immediate gratification with my problem :p16:45
Keybuksince it's fixed, or I stop using it entirely16:45
Robot101Keybuk: any XMPP account will do...16:46
KeybukRobot101: ?16:46
Robot101to talk to people on google talk16:47
Robot101you don't need a gmail account16:47
Keybukdoes anyone have an address for her?16:47
keescookKeybuk: have you looked much at process personality settings for upstart?  I think I might need to tweak one...17:08
Keybukprocess personality?17:08
keescook("man personality")  the kernel process personality bits: ADDR_NO_RANDOMIZE, ADDR_COMPAT_LAYOUT, READ_IMPLIES_EXEC, etc17:09
keescookKeybuk: basically, i think, i have to prove it fully, but READ_IMPLIES_EXEC is set by default for process 1 on ia32.17:10
keescookas a result, until a setuid process is hit (like, say "sudo"), it stays active.17:11
keescookthis causes mmap PROT_READ to get PROT_EXEC included.  and this causes AppArmor to think a process is requesting an executable region of memory.17:11
keescookAFAICT, READ_IMPLIES_EXEC is no longer needed (it was for old ELF binaries: http://lwn.net/Articles/94068/)17:12
Keybukset by default _just_ for process 1?17:13
keescookwell, it's passed from parent to child.17:13
cjwatsonit's a legacy binary; you haven't built it since 12:15 this afternoon17:13
Keybukcjwatson: damn, dude17:13
keescookthe point being that we've see mmap PROT_EXEC at boot, but after we sudo to root, it's gone.17:13
Keybukkeescook: ?17:14
Keybukpretend that this baffled look means you have to explain things to me ;)17:14
keescookKeybuk: I'm working on it.17:14
keescooker :)17:14
keescookKeybuk: rewinding -- we have been seeing issues with AppArmor profiles (only on ia32)17:14
keescookwhen we generated the profile originally, mmap-opening of regular files (with only PROT_READ) happen, and get flagged as "r" (read access)17:15
keescookon a reboot, that same process suddenly needs "m" (mmap with PROT_EXEC) access, so the service fails (usually)17:15
asacbryce: Option      "XAANoOffscreenPixmaps" "true" ... can we have that by default in hardy?17:16
Keybukjust mmap?17:16
Keybukor any kind of file access (like ld.so)17:16
keescookright.  this was a way to work around the addition of the non-executable memory stuff that was added to the kernel (see lwn URL above)17:16
Keybuknot sure I follow17:17
Keybukthe LWN link was a bit "since you know what I'm talking about" :)17:17
keescookit seems that old ELF didn't have a "mark this region as executable" flag.17:17
keescookoh, I didn't mean it that way, I meant it as "here's this thing I found that helped me understand"17:18
mjg59Keybuk: Where has my sub-pixel anti-aliasing gone?17:18
keescookto work around the need for the PROT_EXEC on hardware that didn't support the non-exec CPU bit, the kernel added READ_IMPLIES_EXEC, so that "old" mmap calls that were missing PROT_EXEC would get it added automatically.17:19
mjg59Keybuk: Metacity and gnomepanel seem to be managing it, gnome-terminal is greyscale17:19
Keybukmjg59: didn't you want gnome-terminal to be greyscale?17:19
mjg59Keybuk: No?17:19
Keybuks/greyscale/differently filtered/17:20
mjg59I wanted it not to have obvious colour fringing, which is rather different :)17:20
KeybukArneGoetje: changed fontconfig, xft or cairo recently?17:20
Keybukkeescook: I meant that the author clearly assumed readers knew what he was talking about17:20
Keybukkeescook: I see17:21
Keybukso if you do mmap (PROT_READ) you automatically gain PROT_EXEC17:21
keescookif the READ_IMPLIES_EXEC personality bit is set, yes.17:21
asacbryce: thats for #18203817:21
keescookand READ_IMPLIES_EXEC vanishes once you pass through a setuid process.  (like, sudo)17:21
keescookmy understanding is that READ_IMPLIES_EXEC is totally unneeded for modern distros.17:22
Keybukhow does a process's personality work?17:22
Keybukis a personality inherited from a parent?17:22
Keybukis it initialised to a default on fork() or is it initialised on exec() ?17:22
keescookyes, though masked with a "is-it-setuid?" filter17:22
keescookexec, it seems17:23
Keybuk"yes" to a 3-choice question17:23
Keybukso when you exec(), the process gains a personality?17:23
keescookit just gets the parent personality17:23
Keybukthat kinda just contradicts what you said <g> ?17:23
Keybukpersonalities, iirc, were so you could run BSD binaries on Linux, right?17:23
keescookwe're probably talking past eachother on some subtle symantic point.17:24
keescookno, I don't think so.17:24
keescookthey're for various internal kernel thingies (see the top of /usr/include/linux/personality.h for the list)17:24
Keybukyeah, and below that is the list of system types17:25
* ogra_cmpc wonders if there is also a schizophrenia.h then17:25
keescookah-ha!  okay, then that part is true.  (this is a relatively new area for me too...)17:25
Keybukso what I'm trying to understand is17:26
keescookthough I see none include READ_IMPLIES_EXEC.  :)17:26
Keybuk1) is Upstart's personality wrong?17:26
KeybukUpstart makes use of mmap(), so I could understand why this flags your apparmor profiler17:26
KeybukI don't need EXEC, so I could do without it17:26
keescook1) perhaps -- I'm suspecting so (it gets the kernel default, which includes READ_IMPLIES_EXEC on ia32 only)17:26
Keybukthat implies Upstart needs to call personality() which is a bit odd really17:26
Keybukespecially since this is working around people who didn't read the mmap() manpage properly17:27
keescookit's not a problem with upstart directly, it's that it's children (i.e. init.d services) get that personality flag too17:27
Keybukso that's the next bit17:27
Keybuk2) if I change Upstart's personality, is that change inherited by Upstart's children (ie. everything)17:27
Keybuksignal masks, settings, resources, etc. are *all* inherited17:27
keescookit's not a workaround for mis-use of mmap -- the kernel adds PROT_EXEC against the will of a process calling mmap if READ_IMPLIES_EXEC is in the personality.17:27
keescook2) yes.17:28
Keybuk3) when is the personality changed?17:28
cjwatson2) but the linker will put it back if necessary, if I understood Kees' link correctly17:28
keescookIt is my theory that upstart's personality on x86 is only READ_IMPLIES_EXEC, and 0 on amd64.17:28
Keybuk3b) should Upstart support setting the personality in the job description17:28
Keybuk3c) if Upstart sets the personality, is it pointless because the link-loader resets it17:28
Keybukif so, how does the link-loader know what it should be? :p17:29
keescook3) personality is changed either via a call to personality(), or during exec, with PER_CLEAR_ON_SETID is removed from the personality.  (currently (READ_IMPLIES_EXEC|ADDR_NO_RANDOMIZE))17:29
keescook3b) no clue, but this is one of the many reasons I wanted to discuss it before diving in any further.  :)17:29
Keybukwhich all pretty much sums up with17:30
Keybuk- if the link loader sets the personality17:30
keescook3c) what I want upstart to do is UNset READ_IMPLIES_EXEC.  the linker won't re-add that.17:30
Keybuk- what do we need to change to make Upstart have the right personality?17:30
Keybuk- why not just change the default in the kernel?17:30
keescookpers = personality(0xffffffff); pers |= ~READ_IMPLIES_EXEC; personality(pers);17:30
keescooksorry, yes17:31
keescookgetting kernel changes in this late is Hard(tm)17:31
Keybukbut if Upstart's personality is inherited by everything else17:31
Keybukthen that's basically the same17:31
* lamont adds sync requests for bind9 (to make jdstrand happy) and postfix (to make scottk happy)17:32
keescookand the kernel vs upstart is the other main reason I wanted to discuss it with you.  :)17:32
Keybukthere's a lot of implications here I'd like to understand first17:32
KeybukI tend to assume that deliberately overriding kernel defaults in userspace in ways that are hard to un-override is silly17:32
Keybukif the kernel default is wrong, fix the kernel :p17:32
Keybuk(which is why I campaign against any modprobe options -- just change the default in the damned module)17:32
KeybukI guess I'm thinking:17:33
KeybukIf personalities are inherited from the parent, changing the personality in Upstart is identical to changing the default personality in the kernel17:33
keescookupstream kernel is notoriously conservative.  while I would agree this makes more sense to fix in the kernel, I'm trying to a) minimize the number of kernel changes, and b) make the change somewhere that if we've overlooked something, we can quickly and easily fix it17:34
KeybukIf personalities are set on exec by the link-loader, then we should fix the link-loader to not set that for binaries that don't need it (which may be as simple as rebuilding the binary, no?)17:34
Keybukwhat's so bad about kernel changes?17:34
Keybukthe patch will be the same size no matter where it's applied <g>17:34
elmoKeybuk: people not using ubuntu kernel lose17:34
keescookah, there's that.17:34
Keybukelmo: they probably lose anyway17:34
Keybukthey certainly don't deserve to win :p17:35
cjwatson(don't you have people using upstart on non-Ubuntu ...?)17:35
elmoKeybuk: err, I thought you wanted upstart to be used by non-Ubuntu folks?17:35
keescooknah -- upstream kernels boot okay.  the kernel team even advocates using them to test for driver issues, etc.17:35
Keybukcjwatson, elmo: I don't see that this is a problem unique to Upstart?17:35
ogra_cmpccjwatson, fedora uses it by default in the next release17:35
Keybukit's not doing anything weird here, no?17:35
cjwatsonKeybuk: FWIW (a) I haven't understood the problem enough to say where it should be fixed (b) I'm just saying that "fix it in the Ubuntu kernel, screw upstream" is wrong - I agree in general that fixing things in the kernel when they belong there is correct17:36
cjwatsondoes sysvinit have the same problem?17:36
Keybukcjwatson: I don't mean "screw upstream", "push" would be abetter verb :p17:36
Keybukit worked with SELinux <g>17:36
keescookcjwatson: I haven't checked, but AppArmor upstream had mentioned they'd seen similar bugs, and he was going to check on it in SuSE17:36
KeybukI finally got them to agree that initramfs was the right way to set the policy, not by patching init <g>17:37
Keybuksysvinit itself doesn't use mmap()17:37
KeybukUpstart does17:37
Keybukbut that should only affect that process, not its children17:37
Keybuk(since sysvinit doesn't change any personality flags)17:37
cjwatsonunless the linker does magic, like the PT_GNU_STACK thing17:37
Keybuklike adding the flag if you use mmap? :p[17:38
keescookit's just the passing of the personality READ_IMPLIES_EXEC bit to children that I care about.  none of our distro needs it (but until now it did no harm)17:38
cjwatsonwell, PT_GNU_STACK gets added if the toolchain thinks you need an executable stack. In theory this could be something similar. (I'm not saying it's PT_GNU_STACK BTW, it's just an analogy)17:39
keescookcjwatson: AFAIU, it's directly related to PT_GNU_STACK, actually.17:41
keescookkernel loader:17:41
cjwatsonaha. but upstart does not seem to have the relevant ELF section17:41
keescook        if (elf_read_implies_exec(loc->elf_ex, executable_stack))17:41
keescook                current->personality |= READ_IMPLIES_EXEC;17:41
keescook./include/linux/elf.h:# define elf_read_implies_exec(ex, have_pt_gnu_stack)     017:41
keescook./arch/x86/ia32/ia32_binfmt.c:#define elf_read_implies_exec(ex, executable_stack)     (executable_stack != EXSTACK_DISABLE_X)17:42
cjwatsonwhere does 'executable_stack' come from?17:43
keescooktracking it now, it's related to PT_GNU_STACK in fs/binfmt_elf.c17:43
keescook./include/linux/binfmts.h:#define EXSTACK_DEFAULT   0   /* Whatever the arch defaults to */17:43
Ngtkamppeter: thanks for your reply about the Xerox and poppler17:43
cjwatson'objdump -x /sbin/init | grep -i gnu' doesn't show it17:43
keescook./fs/binfmt_elf.c:      int executable_stack = EXSTACK_DEFAULT;17:43
keescookthen there's a chunk that looks for PT_GNU_STACK17:44
Ngtkamppeter: I'm curious if the distro team is aware of the apparent poppler madness :)17:44
keescookcjwatson: see line 774 of fs/binfmt_elf.c17:44
Ngwhich branch of distro is poppler under? desktop or platform?17:45
Ngspecifically I care about bug #207776, which tkamppeter suggests is the result of broken postscript, and that it is by no means alone17:46
ubotuLaunchpad bug 207776 in poppler "[hardy] printing some PDFs from evince is crashing our Xerox printer" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/20777617:46
keescookhm, the more I follow the implies-exec code, the less sane I feel.17:48
cjwatsonkeescook: right, but only if there is such a section - I don't think there is here17:50
cjwatsonunless it's in the initramfs17:50
cjwatsonwhich execs upstart later17:50
keescookwell, I'm really starting to scratch my head since it seems like this should get set for amd64 too17:51
ArneGoetjeKeybuk: please define "recently" :P17:51
keescookinstead of wasting everyone's time more, I'll go poke at this a bit more.  I feel like I have a better idea what to look for now.17:51
seb128Ng: does gs opens the ps correctly?17:52
tkamppeterNg, Poppler needs really to be fixed. It does not only crash Xerox prnters with its PostScript, the output quality on printers which do not crash is very bad, a lot of unreadable small fonts.17:54
elmoseb128: yes, but it looks terrible17:55
elmoseb128: (but neither ghostscript nor the kernel crash, so we're one up on Xerox ;-)17:55
* Ng adds the above question and answer to the bug17:56
Keybukkeescook: back17:57
seb128well, I would argue that the printer should not crash on incorrect ps or that cupsys should not send a broken ps to the printer17:57
Keybukthe kernel stuff certainly implies to me that personalities *aren't* inherited17:57
seb128but right, would be nice to fix17:57
keescookKeybuk: no problem, I'm still reading kernel code... well, they are, but the linker also sets some.17:57
Ngseb128: absolutely the printer should not crash, and I have asked xerox to make it so17:57
keescooki.e. if I set ADDR_NO_RANDOMIZE and exec cat /proc/self/maps, randomization is clearly disabled.17:58
lamonthrm... why is it that right after I minimize firefox 3.0, it unminimizes itself?17:58
keescookI'm still following the per-arch paths for elf_read_implies_exec.  the way I read it, everything should exec with READ_IMPLIES_EXEC, but since that's clearly not true, I'm scratching my head.17:59
Keybukit's not copied in fork though?17:59
seb128Ng: thanks18:00
keescookI assume it's copied in fork, yes.  but then the loader does stuff to it on exec.18:00
Keybukkeescook: I don't see where18:01
* Keybuk is reading copy_process()18:02
keescookKeybuk: I haven't looked at kernel code, I did that test experimentally.18:02
Keybukah, no, it is18:05
Keybukpersonality is directly in task_struct, so it will be18:05
Keybukok, so personality is inherited unless otherwise overridden18:05
* keescook boots a 32bit vm18:06
Keybukon x86 READ_IMPLIES_EXEC is always removed18:06
keescookwhere do you see that?18:06
Keybuk        current->personality &= ~READ_IMPLIES_EXEC;18:06
Keybukmmmm, hacky18:06
Keybukit just always masks it out when setting it ;)18:06
keescookthe code says what it _should_ do is define the elf_read_implies_exec macro to '0'.  oh well.18:07
keescookthat at least explains my confusion then.18:07
Keybukso the kernel can chose to _add_ the read_implies_exec flag18:08
Keybukand it will inherit down to any other proces that removes it18:08
Keybukit's never cleared by the kernel18:08
* keescook beats head on wall.18:09
keescook32bit doesn't have it set either.18:10
keescook(based on a call to personality())18:10
keescookfrom the code I see in the kernel for binfmt_elf.c, it looks like READ_IMPLIES_EXEC gets set if PT_GNU_STACK is missing.18:11
keescookyou found where it gets cleared for 64bit.18:11
keescookI don't see how it stays cleared for 32bit.18:12
Keybukit doesn't18:13
keescookwhen I call personality(0xffffffff) on 32bit, it comes back 0.  I would expect READ_IMPLIES_EXEC.18:13
Keybuk(gdb) p personality(0xffffffff)18:14
Keybuk$1 = 018:14
keescookI'm curious how that's possible, given the logic in binfmt_elf.c18:14
Keybuk#define elf_read_implies_exec(ex, executable_stack)     (executable_stack != EXSTACK_DISABLE_X)18:15
Keybukso the read_implies_exec flag is added if executable_stack *is not* EXSTACK_DISABLE_X ?18:15
keescookright, and executable_stack == EXSTACK_DEFAULT18:15
keescookwhich != EXSTACK_DISABLE_X18:16
keescookaw, I can't ptrace init.  ;)18:19
Keybukinit=/bin/bash :)18:20
keescookbut I can ptrace a child, and it does have it...18:20
Keybukso something is removing that personality()18:20
keescookright... *scratch head*18:21
keescookthe PER_CLEAR_ON_SETID happens during exec for a setid process.18:21
keescookbut it seems like non-setid children would get the flag back.18:21
Keybukwhat sets that executable stack bit?18:22
Keybukie how would it get set to EXSTACK_DISABLE_X ?18:22
keescookafaict, via a PT_GNU_STACK entry with NX in it18:22
mdzpitti: I took advantage of the kernel update to test your fsck/usplash fix, and it worked fine this time (with /forcefsck)18:22
jdstrandlamont: \o/18:22
keescooksorry, PF_X18:23
pittimdz: yay18:23
Keybukkeescook: what would one of those look like?18:23
mdzpitti: that is, usplash is still broken for me, but fsck displays progress bars correctly18:23
pittimdz: I usually test with tune2fs -C 50 /dev/..., but force should work as well18:23
mdzso it was tested in the same case AFAICT18:23
mdznow to figure out why usplash is broken18:23
pittimdz: broken in what way?18:23
pittistopping prematurely?18:23
keescookKeybuk: going on what cjwatson showed, we'd see it in objdump -x18:23
mdzpitti: it only displays during initramfs18:23
Keybuk  GNU_HASH    0x4023c818:24
Keybuklike that?18:24
mdzand seems to dispappear instantly when init starts18:24
keescookKeybuk: unsure, let me see what I can find.18:24
Keybukquest scott% objdump -x /sbin/init | grep -i gnu18:24
Keybuk  GNU_HASH    0x40067818:24
Keybuk  3 .gnu.hash     00000038  0000000000400678  0000000000400678  00000678  2**318:24
Keybuk  6 .gnu.version  000000c8  000000000040133e  000000000040133e  0000133e  2**118:24
Keybuk  7 .gnu.version_r 00000030  0000000000401408  0000000000401408  00001408  2**318:24
Keybuk 25 .gnu_debuglink 0000000c  0000000000000000  0000000000000000  0001b9d0  2**018:24
cjwatsonKeybuk: gnu.stack or gnu.attr, I believe18:25
cjwatsonthe sections above are (afaik) innocuous for this purpose18:25
Keybukcjwatson: I don't see any binaries with that18:25
mdzI also noticed I was unable to ^C fsck; I'm pretty sure that used to work ages ago18:25
Keybukdo you have an example of one?18:25
cjwatsonthe names have gone through an iteration or two18:25
mdzKeybuk: did that change with upstart?18:25
cjwatsonnot offhand; maybe wine or mono?18:25
Keybukmdz: yes18:25
mdzKeybuk: is it a bug?18:26
cjwatsonit's a long time since I last looked at this18:26
cjwatsonwarty or thereabouts18:26
Keybukmdz: it was kinda deliberate ;)18:26
Keybukcjwatson: mono hasn't18:26
mdzKeybuk: I don't understand18:26
Keybukmdz: there is an unexplained difference in behaviour between Upstart and sysvinit when it comes to the ownership of /dev/consoe18:27
Keybukunexplained in that the code is identical, but produces different behaviour18:27
bryceasac, I'll see if that may have some side effects18:29
ogra_cmpcbryce, qfunk poked me about bug 21138518:29
ubotuLaunchpad bug 211385 in xserver-xorg-video-amd "please sync xserver-xorg-video-geode (main) from Debian (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/21138518:29
Keybukmdz: if Upstart gives sys-rc "ownership" of the console, then X will crash18:29
Keybukso "telinit 3" while running X becomes disasterous18:30
bryceogra_cmpc: me too18:30
Keybukthe identical code in sysvinit appears to be fine18:30
mdzKeybuk: I don't see a bug open about it18:30
Keybukso to work around that, we don't give sysv-rc ownership of the console, instead we just put output to it18:30
ogra_cmpcbryce, well, at least we'll always have his latest code that way :P18:30
Keybukmdz: I find filing bugs and assigning them to myself slightly eerie18:30
Keybukespecially when I end up replying to my own comments18:31
mdzKeybuk: I find a bug report a good place to record my thinking about a bug so that it's around for reference18:31
bryceogra_cmpc: do you have any issues with including it?18:31
ogra_cmpcmdz, usplash breakage -> is your /etc/usplash.conf ok ?18:31
ogra_cmpcbryce, not from my side, but i dont have the HW to test18:31
pittidoko_: a dapper->hardy install has /etc/skel/.bash_profile, a fresh hardy install doesn't; is that deliberate?18:31
Keybukmdz: I use TODO lists for that18:31
mdzogra_cmpc: 1600x120018:31
mdzthat's the same as my X session18:32
Keybuktrouble is, it's a damned annoying bug to play with18:32
Keybukbecause the only way to test it is to repeatedly kill X :p18:32
Keybuk(which is usually where one is editing the code)18:32
ogra_cmpcmdz, ah, k, i recently saw it not working where someone had an empty file18:32
bryceogra_cmpc: thanks18:33
ogra_cmpcKeybuk, thats what god lets grow virtual machines for :)18:33
ogra_cmpc(or soren ...)18:33
Amaranthi was gonna say screen plus vim/emacs (no wars here)18:33
mdzKeybuk: ok to copy your remarks to the bug I'm filing?18:34
Keybukmdz: sure18:35
doko_pitti: yes, that's .profile now18:35
pittidoko_: ok, so that should be cleaned up on upgrade, I figure; I'll file a bug18:35
doko_pitti: really, not only if it's unmodified?18:38
pittisure, only unmodified18:38
pittiotherwise it shuold be renamed in preinst, then the user will get a proper dpkg conffile prompt18:38
mdzthe default usplash timeout is 15 seconds, yes?18:40
mdzit doesn't seem to be running for that long in total, much less between commands18:40
* ogra_cmpc has systems where it runs 90sec18:40
pittimdz: hm, hard to say; too many init scripts change the value18:43
mdzpitti: but I'm talking about initramfs18:43
mdzit's dead already when S01readahead is running18:43
tjaaltonbryce, asac: it would break 2D performance18:44
pittimdz: but yeah, the defautl is 1518:44
mdzbut it's running before that18:44
asactjaalton: for whom?18:44
tjaaltonasac: those who don't run compiz18:44
asactjaalton: for those that currently see black rectangles in firefox?18:44
asactjaalton: yeah. i think only those that don't use compiz see black rectangles where images should be18:45
Spadsand since ATI gets no more compiz...18:45
asaci think every ati user except those running EXA have black rectangles without that option18:45
asacbut EXA wouldn't be hit by that i guess18:46
mjg59asac: Given that we didn't have that as default in gutsy, what's changed?18:47
pittimvo: so, I reduced the dapper->hardy /etc diff to 173 KB18:47
asacmjg59: images are scaled by X18:47
pittimvo: I'm through18:47
bryceasac, -ati only, or also -fglrx or -radeonhd?18:47
asacmjg59: at least thats what i understand (in cairo=18:47
ogra_cmpcmjg59, firefox not only scales fonts alone anymore18:47
asacbryce: fglrx as well18:47
asacbryce: i think everything that uses normal XAA code18:48
keescookKeybuk, cjwatson: we want readelf -l $EXEC | grep GNU_STACK not objdump.18:48
pittimvo: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/tmp/dapper-hardy-etc.diff FYI; those are the bits which need to be fixed, but I didn't report bugs for yet18:48
keescookactually, grep -A118:48
asacogra_cmpc: it also scaled images in the past (just not the complete website) ... the difference is that cairo lets X do all the ground work18:48
ogra_cmpcah, i didnt know that18:49
mjg59Ah, ok18:49
asacwe already have a hack because of that in cairo for this behaviour: http://people.ubuntu.com/~asac/corrupted1.png ... but i don't think that we can do something similar for normal images.18:49
brycehmm, my main desktop is -ati w/ XAA and no compiz, running current Hardy, and I'm not seeing that issue18:49
asacbryce: really?18:50
ogra_cmpci saw it for a while, but havent seen any non classmate desktop since weeks ... i can go checking though18:50
asacbryce: http://www.ubuntu.com/files/u3/desktop-tn.png18:50
asacif i zoom that image in and out18:50
bryceasac, ah yes18:51
asacyou see it?18:51
asacgood ;)18:51
mvopitti: thanks, I need to leave now, but will have a look later18:51
bryceasac, ok, so I can reproduce the behavior, but I don't think this has impacted my day-to-day use of the machine very much ;-)18:52
asacbryce: maybe you don't look closely18:52
asacbryce: http://www.ubuntu.com/products/WhatIsUbuntu/desktopedition18:52
asacthe page has a black image for me (the one from above)18:53
asacand thats just one click from ubuntu.com away ;)18:54
brycestill, I don't think it's so serious that we should adopt a solution that isn't side-effect free18:54
asacbryce: well. its a serious blocker for sure. you see black images on every second page out there18:54
asacand performance looks not that bad ... in fact for me scrolling in ffox became faster now :)18:54
asacbryce: i'd really like to try this and see what the response is ... except of doing nothing18:55
bryceI've not seen that many black pages to be honest.  Maybe I overlooked them but I don't think so ;-)18:55
tjaaltonthere's a reason we have the patch from fedora that is more clever than this option.. if I only could remember it18:55
asactjaalton: maybe the patch is what breaks it here?18:55
tjaaltonasac: could be, but dropping it would mean no compiz18:56
asacbryce: you as me are probably not really the ones that care. but there are a lot of users that look more closely18:56
tjaaltonthe upstream bug is marked as a blocker for X.org 7.4, so there should be a solution soon18:56
asaci don't see those issues, but others are and if you cannot see the image you want to see you have a problem18:56
asactjaalton: which upstream bug?18:57
ubotuFreedesktop bug 13795 in Acceleration/XAA "RenderComposite with XAA renders at wrong position if vertically scaled." [Critical,New]18:57
tjaaltonthe one that is attached to the bug :)18:57
asactjaalton: can you prod around to see what the state is?18:57
Keybukkeescook: with the response being non-zero?18:58
Keybukie. we should expect GNU_STACK in the output, but with all zeros ?18:58
Keybuk(to mean not present)18:58
keescookKeybuk: IIUC, it's the "RWX" at the end.  "RW" is non-executable.  I'm totally baffled at the moment.18:58
bryceasac, the risk with these options is that sometimes flipping them on across the board can cause unexpected (sometimes major) issues on some chipsets18:58
Keybukwing-commander scott% readelf -l /sbin/init | grep -A 1 GNU_STACK18:58
Keybuk  GNU_STACK      0x000000 0x00000000 0x00000000 0x00000 0x00000 RW  0x418:58
keescooksorry "E".  look at /usr/bin/gpg18:59
tjaaltonasac: pinged ssp18:59
Keybukso gpg means "won't get read implies exec" ?18:59
keescookright, I cannot understand how these processes have READ_IMPLIES_EXEC set.18:59
Keybukor means "read implies exec" ?18:59
keescookgpg's means it WILL get read_implies_exec18:59
Keybukfrom this, it looks like Upstart *won't* get read_implies_exec19:00
keescookright!  *bang head on desk*19:00
* Keybuk checks the shells ;)19:00
asacbryce: thats true, but we will never know if we don't enable that by default ;)19:00
Keybuknope, no E there19:00
Keybukthat would have been an obvious answer19:00
keescookor things like acpid which I can gdb-attach to and see the r-i-e pers flag19:00
keescookyet the executable doesn't have "E" in gnu_stack.19:01
asacbryce: and from what i understand it removes logic that depends on chipset and does it in software with that option19:01
Keybuk(gdb) p personality(0xffffffff)19:01
Keybuk$1 = 419430419:01
Keybuk(gdb) printf "%x\n", personality(0xffffffff)19:02
KeybukI see19:02
keescookKeybuk: however, the kernel doesn't _clear_ that flag.  it only ever sets it.19:03
keescookif GNU_STACK lacks "E", the kernel does _nothing_ to the flag.19:03
Keybuk(gdb) printf "%x\n", personality(0xffffffff)19:03
Keybuk[Switching to Thread 0xb7dd86b0 (LWP 8920)]19:03
keescookif GNU_STACK *has* E, the kernel *sets* it.19:04
Keybukthat was a sleep inf spawned from upstart19:04
Keybukwhich is pretty conclusive that upstart has flag19:04
Keybuk(while running)19:04
keescookso if the kernel spawns init with READ_IMPLIES_EXEC, upstart will have it.19:04
keescookokay.  I feel sane again.19:04
Keybukwing-commander scott# readelf -l /usr/lib/klibc/bin/run-init | grep GNU_STACK19:05
Keybuk  GNU_STACK      0x000000 0x00000000 0x00000000 0x00000 0x00000 RWE 0x419:05
Keybukthere's your E19:05
Keybuklooks like all of klibc has it19:06
Keybukinitramfs busybox *doesn't*19:06
Keybukso it comes from the klibc run-init that runs /sbin/init (which doesn't)19:06
keescookokay, we need to fix that.  it's likely due to it have assembly routines that lack:19:06
keescook.section .note.GNU-stack, ""19:06
keescookin their .S19:06
KeybukI'll leave that with you :)19:07
KeybukI have to leave an hour ago <g>19:07
keescookokay, sounds good.  thanks for digging into this with me.19:07
Keybukno worries19:07
keescookKeybuk: yay full circle.  klibc's author is hpa -- my fellow kernel.org admin.  *slap forehead*19:29
slangasektjaalton: why is  bug #120834 marked as 'invalid' for xserver-xorg-video-intel?  this appears to be a driver-specific X server crash?19:32
ubotuLaunchpad bug 120834 in mesa "intel gm965 freezes with 3d applications" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/12083419:32
mantiena-baltixcalc: hi, are you online ?19:33
tjaaltonslangasek: the dri driver is in mesa19:35
tjaaltonslangasek: btw, there's a mesa 7.0.3rc3 available ;)19:35
tjaaltonwe have rc219:36
tjaalton+some fixes from the 7.0.3 branch19:36
slangasekneeds to go through the process, of course...19:37
calcmantiena-baltix: yea19:37
tjaaltonslangasek: sure19:37
mantiena-baltixcalc: I'm backporting OpenOffice 2.4 to Ubuntu 7.10 (Gutsy), maybe you already did this job or maybe you already know someone, who are backporting ?19:39
calcmantiena-baltix: haven't done it and don't know anyone working on it19:39
calcmantiena-baltix: i still have lots of work to do on hardy's version in the next couple weeks19:40
calcmantiena-baltix: plus i will be gone for about 5 days to a conference19:40
calcmantiena-baltix: if you get it working if you want you can send me a debdiff and i will try to get the changes integrated19:40
blueyedpitti: can you release virtualbox-ose-modules from NEW, or is there a problem with it?19:43
keescookwhen did the dpkg FLAG changes go in?  I am nervous about klibc.  :P19:43
infinitykeescook: Do a local test build and boot with it?19:44
keescookinfinity: yup, going to shortly19:44
infinitykeescook: It builds in a matter of seconds on fast hardware. :P19:44
keescookyeah, doing so now... was just wondering out "loud".  :P19:45
mantiena-baltixcalc: I almost finished the backport - look at https://edge.launchpad.net/~mantas/+archive/+builds?build_text=&build_state=all19:45
calc1:2.4.0-3baltix0 ?19:46
calclooks like the build segfault on i38619:47
calcin sbuild(?)19:47
mantiena-baltixcalc: yes, there was only one problem with hsqlsb amd64 build (it seems we should backport java-gcj-compat-dev) and also there are i386 ppa builder problems :(19:48
calcah ok19:48
calcyea and mono package split is what is affecting lpia19:48
* calc notes backporting is fun :-\19:48
infinityOkay, update-grub(8) spawning ucf just seems terribly broken...19:49
ogra_cmpchmm, why dont i have write access to devices i have mounted myself ... (or hal on behalf of me at least)19:53
jdstrandpitti, tkamppeter: I was just testing the cupsys package on hardy, and found that /usr/share/cups/enable_browsing and enable_sharing are missing.  I don't see in the changelog why this happened.  Is this intentional, and if so is there an alternative I can use?19:53
slangasekwhy bother, infinity++ == infinity19:54
lamontmeh.  let's just rename him aleph219:54
infinityslangasek: Thus proving that the only thing more awesome than me is... Me?19:54
slangaseklamont: now you're thinking :-)19:54
slangasekinfinity: it just means that you're immune to scalar math :)19:55
ogra_cmpcslangasek, that really depends who says it ... in a poetic way infinity++ is more :)19:55
slangasekogra_cmpc: try it with IEEE fp math ;)19:55
mantiena-baltixcalc: maybe you know how I could solve i386 builder bug ? cprov told me, that I should remove the stuff in [] from the B-d - then i386 builder has a chance to work.19:55
infinityslangasek: An odd immunity, to be sure, but I suppose things like chicken pox and the measels are passe.19:55
infinitymantiena-baltix: I'm looking into the bug later today, but it's not going to be a quick fix.  Your best bet is the pare down a bunch of the build-deps that you don't actually need, yes.19:56
Mithrandirlamont: renaming him aleph1 (or aleph2) would mean he was multiplied by himself.  I'm not sure I want to know about such things.19:57
* infinity makes a note to put "immune to scalar math" on his resume.19:57
lamontMithrandir: and there are anatomical challenges there19:57
Mithrandirlamont: LALALALALA19:57
Mithrandirlamont: I see your lips move, but I can't hear what you're saying.19:58
lamontMithrandir: but if we made him aleph2, wouldn't that mean we'd cubed him?19:58
* lamont thinks of bullion.19:58
lamontor would that be aleph3?19:58
infinityI'm not entirely sure what being cubed entails, but it doesn't sound pleasant.19:59
lamontslangasek: for giggles, do your next dput inside of a screen session on hardy, then figure out whether that's a dput bug or a screen bug...19:59
slangasekI think I may have had enough giggles for one workday20:00
infinitylamont: The suspense is killing me; what's it do?20:00
lamontUploading to mmj (via ftp to archive.mmjgroup.com):20:01
lamont  postfix_2.5.1-2~gutsy1.dsc: done.20:01
lamont  postfix_2.5.1.orig.tar.gz: done.                                     postfix_2.5.1-2~gutsy1.diff.gz: done.                                             postfix20:01
lamonthrm.. that kinda cleaned up20:01
lamontthe dsc is indented 2 chars, the orig.tar.gz, 2 chars, the diff.gz?  -9 chars20:01
calcmantiena-baltix: eh, that stuff is in the regular build so if that is causing the buildd to fails is really broken20:02
calcmantiena-baltix: er i mean the buildd is really broken20:02
lamontand the bottom of things says "... Succe\nfully uploadeded packages.\nNot running dinstall."20:02
calcmantiena-baltix: buildds have supported foo [arch] build-deps for 8yr+ (afaik)20:03
lamontcalc: since forever, yeah20:03
elmocalc: that's not the point20:03
calcelmo: maybe i am missing something about the failure then?20:03
elmocalc: oo.o's build-depends are a ridiculous size and between that and all the arch conditionals, it causes either a bug in sbuild or a bug in perl itself to trigger and segfault20:04
calcelmo: ah20:04
elmodebian's been seeing this for a while now on various arches (arms/mips)20:04
elmoand now we're seeing it20:04
calcmantiena-baltix: well you could manually edit the control file (its generated) to remove the parts not needed in build-depends20:04
calcelmo: ah ok, i didn't know what he meant due to just removing the [] stuff20:05
calcelmo: a too long string issue?20:05
calcnice build-dep line is 6920 characters long20:06
slangasekan unknown issue that causes perl to segfault20:06
mantiena-baltixcalc: btw, maybe you have a i386 gutsy system to build my backported ooo 2.4 ?20:06
slangasekalso, perl segfaulting because a string is too long == perl isn't good for much anymore, is it? :)20:06
calcmantiena-baltix: nope, don't have a gutsy system here20:06
lamontcalc: and the binaries line length crossed with the log file size is it's own form of painful20:07
calcmantiena-baltix: i have to make a chroot anytime i work with older releases20:07
=== doko_ is now known as doko
calclamont: yea build log is a bit huge :)20:07
lamontoo.o really needs to separate into more sensibly sized pieces...20:07
lamontI mean, it makes KDE's packages look small20:07
lamontand _they're_ rediculously large20:08
calca large chunk of it is translations20:08
calcactually a very large chunk of it20:08
calc87MB of the diff, plus 81MB of the orig20:09
lamontBuild needed 15:22:23, 8080476k disk space20:09
lamont42MB of log20:09
calcah kde finally split up their i18n source package (it used to be fairly huge as well)20:11
slangaseklamont: well, yes - there's a reason we have precisely one person each in Debian and Ubuntu who ever dare to build the damn thing20:11
lamontyes.  and they still have a long way to go before they approach "sensibily packaged"20:12
lamontslangasek: I think more than one person each builds kde.... :)20:12
slangaseklamont: I meant OOo20:12
* lamont glares at the keyboard20:12
calchell OOo doesn't even follow the FHS20:12
lamontor rational build process design20:12
slangasek"hmm, let me think. I could spend 3 hours downloading the orig.tar.gz and 12 hours for each build iteration, or... I could let calc do it."20:13
calcor choice of language *cough*20:13
calclets write lots of a already bloated app in java, yipee :\20:13
calcespecially when there is no free stable java available20:13
slangaseknow don't say that, you'll only encourage them to think what they're doing with OOo will be reasonable once there *is* free stable java available :)20:14
calc8 years after starting on OOo they may finally have a stable free java in the next year or so20:14
calcits still crazy but at least might stop crashing every few minutes20:14
elmowas my fstab meant to be converted to uuids?20:15
ogra_cmpcelmo, in edgy, yes20:16
elmodapper -> hardy upgrade didn't20:16
ogra_cmpcouch, sounds like a bug20:16
elmoit left me a nice fstab.pre-uuid file.  which err, is the same as fstab20:16
slangasekyes, there's a bug on that20:16
slangaseker, or maybe not, that detail wasn't present in the bug I saw described20:16
elmoslangasek: what package, if you know?20:17
slangasekelmo: I think that's 209347 though20:17
slangasek(from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-8.0420:17
elmohmm, on second thoughts, I guess leaving the pre-uuid file around is probably considered a feature20:19
LaserJockyeah, that would be handy if stuff blows up20:19
slangasekmaybe - but not switching to uuid is still a bug, and one that can render systems unbootable since dapper->hardy also crosses the libata transition20:19
slangasek(for many controllers, at least)20:20
lamontslangasek: "transition" is such a pretty word for "cluster" :-)20:20
elmoI just don't use ATA in my servers ;-)20:20
slangasekheh :)20:20
elmoand whatever code that does this, loses the final newline on fstab </nitpick>20:20
seb128pawalls: around?20:25
pawallsseb128, yessir20:25
pittijdstrand: it's intentional indeed, since we do not need them any more20:25
pawallsseb128, how can I help?20:25
jdstrandpitti: can you elaborate?20:25
jdstrandpitti: why not needed?20:26
pittijdstrand: if you still need the functionality, you need to do the conf file changes yourself20:26
pittijdstrand: system-config-printer and the cups webui do that in a much better way, without the need to restart the daemon, etc.20:26
seb128pawalls: have you seen the patch I attached upstream today for the glib issue?20:26
seb128pawalls: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=108556&action=view20:26
jdstrandpitti: ok-- but is there no use case for cli only?20:26
jdstrand(other than my testing script :)20:27
seb128pawalls: it's the same idea than yours done in an easier way (no need to duplicate string and your code doesn't leak the string)20:27
pittijdstrand: they were not even in $PATH...20:27
pittijdstrand: originally I wrote them as backend for a gnome-cups-manager patch20:27
pawallsseb128, Cool. Did you see what I mentioned about /.gvfs/ though?20:27
seb128pawalls: s/doesn't//20:27
jdstrandpitti: you thought a little thing like that would keep them from me?20:27
pittibut we don't use that any more20:27
seb128pawalls: right, looks to that now20:27
pittijdstrand: :)20:28
pawallsseb128, Yeah.. I mentioned in a second comment that there would be memory leak with the g_strconcat unless you free it later :)20:28
seb128pawalls: could you try my variant to make sure it's ok? I've a package ready to upload to hardy using it20:28
pittijdstrand: so, if you really need them back, I can add them again, but it's not an interface I want to keep forever, so I better wanted to drop them in hardy20:28
pittijdstrand: of course you are welcome to copy them into the qa-test branch :)20:28
jdstrandpitti: yes, I was just thinking about that20:29
pittiblueyed: certainly no problem20:29
jdstrandpitti: ok thanks!20:29
pawallsseb128, Sure, I will give it a go.20:29
seb128pawalls: thanks20:29
pawallsseb128, I think the gvfs line can just be removed entirely20:29
seb128pawalls: which one?20:29
seb128ah .gvfs20:29
pawallsseb128, The one 4 lines above the one you patched.20:30
pawallsIt's redundant and actually will show other users' mount on everyone's desktop20:30
pittiblueyed: done20:30
blueyedpitti: Thanks.. I was just wondering, because it was staying there the whole day, while other packages got processed.20:31
Riddellcalc: Debian still insist on packaging kde l10n as one huge tar, I've always refused to do so20:32
corevetteWho is the webmaster for Ubuntu.com?20:35
* ogra_cmpc wonders if its gvfs's fault that he cant cheat update-manager anymore with loopmounting isos under /cdrom20:36
pawallsseb128, building and will get back to you shortly.20:37
seb128pawalls: thanks20:37
LaserJockcorevette: kinda depends on what you're looking for but https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-website20:39
calcRiddell: oh20:44
tkamppeterjdstrand, the /usr/share/cups/enable_browsing and enable_sharing are intendedly removed as system-config-printer and CUPS do this job by themselves now. KDE Printing Manager is patched to use these tools. The patch has to be changed to use the cupsctl command.20:46
calcOOo source isn't that big ;-) 1.8G - OOH680_m1220:46
jdstrandtkamppeter: ah cupsctl-- didn't know about that20:48
jdstrandtkamppeter: so --[no-]share-printers is obviously for sharing, --[no-]remote-printers is for browsing?20:48
jdstrand(I'm thinking so...)20:50
pawallsseb128, Appears to work.20:50
pawallsseb128, I also tested with removing the if /.gvfs/ conditional and that also worked.20:51
seb128pawalls: well, .gvfs mounts should never be showed, so the if is wrong20:52
pawallsseb128, Ahh.. I see.20:53
seb128pawalls: but the g_unix_mount_is_system_internal (mount_entry) call before filter those out20:53
pawallsMaybe all dirs beginning with a "." shouldn't be shown?20:53
pawallseg.. /home/$USER/.something20:53
seb128I think there is some discussions upstream about that20:53
pawallsCool :)20:53
pawallsseb128, It actually affects us now, but it's not nearly as big a problem as the home itself being shown.20:53
seb128pawalls: you have automounts in the user directory too?20:54
pawallsseb128, :)20:54
pawallsseb128, snapshots20:54
seb128pawalls: an another way would be to ignore autofs20:54
jdstrandtkamppeter: thanks!20:54
pawallsseb128, *nods*20:54
seb128pawalls: do you think there is cases where autofs mounts should be displayed?20:55
pawallsseb128, Not sure how we'd do that though20:55
=== tsmithe` is now known as tsmithe
pawallsseb128, I can't think of any.20:55
pawallsseb128, But I'm not sure how you'd find out if it was mounted by autofs.20:55
seb128pawalls: what is the mtab line for a such mount?20:55
seb128anything mentioning autofs?20:56
pawallsseb128, Nothing in /etc/mtab or /proc/mounts makes it obvious.20:56
seb128hum, k20:56
seb128ok, one issue at time20:56
seb128I'll upload this fix for now20:56
pawallsseb128, Yeah20:56
pawallsseb128, This patch already makes it heaps better.. and also that we're not showing all directories in /home anymore.20:56
pawallsseb128, Whatever patch you made to restrict it to /media and /home/$USER really improved things significantly.20:57
pawallsseb128, Before that, the desktop was just completely unusable.20:57
seb128pawalls: well, the change is the function we are tweaking since yesterday ;-)20:57
pawallsseb128, Yep20:57
seb128I think the media thing is good enough20:58
* pawalls nods.20:58
seb128we might want a way to let user not show mount in their directory too20:58
seb128ie, filtering those using .directory for example20:58
pawallsseb128, Yeah20:58
seb128but I think that's a less common usecase20:58
pawallsseb128, Perhaps just a gconf setting for manual blacklist?20:58
seb128not easy20:58
seb128glib is way under gconf in the stack20:59
pawallsglib doesn't depend on gconf I suppose.20:59
pawallsseb128, Anyway thanks again. What we have now is a great improvement.20:59
seb128pawalls: you are welcome!20:59
ogra_cmpcseb128, i think mounting in homedir is only relly annoying for developers ...21:00
pawallsseb128, And I'll try to sticking around on IRC in case you have any questions. Feel free to poke me whenever.21:00
seb128pawalls: ok, thanks21:00
ogra_cmpc(i found more than 280 nautilus windows one day after running unattended buildscripts in my home tht loop mount stuff)21:00
elmohow is there not a bug for this bash completion promptage?21:00
ogra_cmpci guess general users might appreciate the feature21:01
pawallsogra_cmpc, :)21:01
seb128ogra_cmpc: might still need some tweaking, for example loop mounts should be ignored21:01
pawallsseb128, I think the way it used to work is that all nfs mounts were ignored.21:01
pawallsseb128, Which is I suppose why it didn't affect us in Gutsy.21:02
ogra_cmpcseb128, well, at least as long as you need root anyway to mount it ... if you can mount them by doubleclicking an iso for example, the i'd disagree21:02
ogra_cmpcbut i think that still defaults to fileroller if i'm not wrong21:03
elmooh, there is, nm21:03
seb128pawalls: gnome-vfs seems to be something interesting21:04
ogra_cmpcah, no, it defaults to n-c-b21:04
seb128pawalls: it looks if the device_path is starting by "(pid" and classify those as autofs apparently21:04
Ibycushello, anyone here know where i would go to offer an opinion on ubuntu hardy ui?21:04
seb128pawalls: ups, not starting21:05
* lamont will upgrade his laptop tonight and see if he can get more info for bug 21079221:05
ubotuLaunchpad bug 210792 in consolekit "no sessions after logging in" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/21079221:05
seb128pawalls: just if there is a (pid there21:05
seb128Ibycus: try the forum maybe?21:05
Ibycusseb128: ok, will do21:06
Ibycusseb128: a particular subboard?21:06
seb128Ibycus: no idea about that one21:06
Ibycusill have a look21:06
Ibycusseb128: ill put it here: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/21:09
cjwatsonMithrandir: (aleph0)^2 is still aleph0 - to get a higher order, you need to raise something to the power of aleph021:12
pawallsseb128, Ah.. interesting.21:13
cjwatson(number-theoretic pedantry 'r' us)21:13
* slangasek grins21:15
keescookdoko: are you around?  I'm trying to sort out some note.GNU-stack/GNU_STACK issues when linking.  I have an "E" GNU_STACK that I can't find the origin of...21:16
keescook(or anyone else...)21:17
slangasekshouldn't that be ℵ⁰ ?21:20
dokokeescook: sorry, have a conference call21:20
keescookdoko: okay, no problem.21:21
ion_slangasek: Wikipedia doesn't seem to think so.21:22
cjwatsonslangasek: it's usually subscripted, or at least was when I was studying number theory21:24
cjwatsonpresumably to avoid confusion with exponential notation21:24
slangasekfair 'nuff, it's been a long time for me so I suppose I was just misremembering :)21:25
cjwatsonof course, what we *don't* know is whether 2^ℵ₀ == ℵ₁ ...21:26
jdong*grumble* ACPI mWhr discharge rates are estimated from mAh battery capacity decrease, isn't it...21:27
jdongstupid sanity21:27
=== RAOF_ is now known as RAOF
RAOFcjwatson: Well, we do, kinda. We know 2^ℵ₀ == ℵ₁ is independent of ZFC :)21:43
cjwatsonRAOF: I think that's an extremely weak form of "know". :-)21:51
=== dhaval is now known as dhaval_away
mdkehi cjwatson, do you have a moment?21:54
cjwatsonmdke: sure21:55
ScottKslangasek: I just uploaded the unforked version of SE Linux setools.  It will need to get looked at for binary New.  I'm pretty sure I did the transitional packages right, but ...21:57
slangasekScottK: ok21:57
calcgetting these icon themes working properly in OOo is pita :\22:11
Riddellcalc: did you look at the issue with the livefs builds?22:23
keescookdoko: I'm trying to understand the live cycle of .note.GNU-stack into GNU_STACK bits.22:25
keescookat what point does the GNU_STACK get set?22:25
dokokeescook: tbh, I didn't look at this after making it the default for edgy(?)22:27
keescookdoko: this isn't related to -fstack-protector22:27
keescookthat's entirely a code-generation and libc issue22:27
keescookthis is related to how gcc/as mark the GNU_STACK section.22:28
keescook(as executable or not)22:28
brycehey kees, with latest hardy I notice xsane no longer detects my scanner, except when run as root22:28
keescookbryce: perhaps a udev rule is needed?22:28
brycekeescook: (which it didn't require on gutsy).  Is this some security thing?22:28
keescookbryce: nothing I did explicitly.22:29
bryceok, strange22:29
brycemaybe xsane needs gksu now?  hmm22:29
doko.note.GNU-stack notes are emitted by the compiler, for assembly you have emit these yourself, for the rest, I'll have to look myself22:29
keescookbryce: check the ownership of the device nodes, etc compared to gutsy22:29
bryceunfortunately I no longer have gutsy around for checking22:29
keescookdoko: right.  I'm now emitting these in klibc, but the final (shared) link still gains GNU_STACK with "E".22:29
keescookeven though every component being linked in either has the note or doesn't have "E" in it's GNU_STACK.22:30
calcRiddell: it was just a ooo-l10n wasn't built until this morning issue22:30
calcRiddell: it wasn't installable on hardy yesterday either22:30
calcRiddell: at least i am 99% sure that was what the problem was with livefs22:30
keescookif you have a moment (it's quick to build), can you build klibc on i386 with this patch: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/13099228/klibc_1.5.7-4ubuntu2.debdiff22:30
Riddellcalc: ah, sorted22:30
keescookdoko: then I can show you what I've scratching my head about.  :)22:31
* calc thinks he found why it doesn't fall back to the right theme properly22:31
tedgkeescook: BTW, do you know somewhere I could post to ask more about that FF linker bug?  I'd like to figure it out, but I don't know where to go.22:31
keescooktedg: I don't.  My linker go-to guy is doko.  :)  Perhaps ask asac for pointers to devel channels/mailing lists?22:32
asactedg: which FF bug?22:35
tedgasac: Sorry, not as much a bug, as I can't seem to link with the gnome-keyring plugin :(  https://launchpad.net/~ted-gould/+archive/+build/54281322:36
asactedg: what are you trying to do ;)?22:37
tedgasac: It seems to be something with the linker.  If I link in "-lgnome-keyring" it fails, but "/usr/lib/libgnome-keyring.a" succeeds.22:37
tedgasac: Make all the authentication tokens for FF be in gnome-keyring.22:37
kirkland`evand: cjwatson: i'm curious if either of you guys have an opinion on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/partman-basicfilesystems/+bug/8235122:38
dokokeescook: built, but I made the mistak to look at the current glibc build logs :-/22:38
ubotuLaunchpad bug 82351 in partman-basicfilesystems "support for swap files" [Wishlist,Confirmed]22:38
asactedg: where is that gnome-keyring/ code from?22:38
tedgasac: Mozilla bugzilla.22:38
keescookdoko: yeah, it builds, and it's certainly different (libklibc correctly lacks "E" in GNU_STACK)  the problem seems to be the utils, which strangely all still have "E"22:38
* tedg tries to say that 10 times fast 22:38
kirkland`evand: cjwatson: i assume it's not something worth pursuing in hardy, due to the fact that it's probably just a minor annoyance and the bug has gotten no attention ;-)  but is it something worth pursuing in Intrepid?22:39
asactedg: bug id?22:39
tedgasac: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=30980722:40
ubotuMozilla bug 309807 in Password Manager "Integrate Password Manager with Gnome Keyring Manager" [Enhancement,New]22:40
asactedg: 1st. try to apply that to xulrunner-1.9 instead of firefox22:41
tedgasac: Okay, what's the difference?22:42
asactedg: not sure. everything is hidden nowadays ;)22:45
asac++-4.2 -o GnomeKeyring.o -c -I../../dist/include/system_wrappers -include ../../config/gcc_hidden.h22:45
asactry to remove that business by hand and see if the link then succeeds22:45
asacthe include of gcc_hidden.h i mean22:45
asaci currently don't understand why it doesn't see the symbols in libgnome-keyring because of that, but i guess its due to that mechansim22:47
asactedg: why are you working on that now?22:47
cjwatsonkirkland`: I've seen it, but it's a fair amount of work22:49
kirkland`cjwatson: okay, thanks, i was just curious22:50
asactedg: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=309807#c422:50
ubotuMozilla bug 309807 in Password Manager "Integrate Password Manager with Gnome Keyring Manager" [Enhancement,New]22:50
cjwatsonI've updated the bug22:50
asactedg: that makes this solution unfeasible for prime-time (which is most likely the reason why nothing has landed and no review has been requested.22:50
keescookdoko: any thoughts or things I should try?22:50
tedgasac: Working on proving out some ideas on getting Firefox and the desktop to work together.22:51
asactedg: first start working with me ;)22:51
tedgasac: Yes, that is a problem.  I'll have to see if it is feasible to work around.22:51
tedgasac: Heh, I didn't mean to work around you.  I just thought this was going to be an easy "drop in and see if it works" type of thing....22:52
asactedg: yeah, but it isn't.22:52
asacfirefox 3 and gnome-keyring is only possible in an ugly fashion :)22:52
asacwe thought about a solution for epiphany for that ... but now that they give up on gecko, there is no point to investigate further ;)22:53
tedgWell, the nice part is that the Webkit integration is already done.  So really they're ahead on it.22:53
dokokeescook: please let me look at it tomorrow, I do have the build at least now22:53
Riddelltkamppeter: have you looked into backporting the libpaper patch change in ghostscript to 7.10?22:53
asactedg: webkit + keyring integration?22:54
calcdoko: ping22:54
calcdoko: i have something for you to look at (small bit of code) to see if i am reading it correctly22:54
keescookdoko: okay, cool -- thanks!22:55
asactedg: we will land a gconf integration for proxy stuff in the next days22:55
asactedg: i think we cannot do much more for hardy22:55
asacand for intrepid we can discuss at UDS.22:55
asacI am open to any new idea ;)22:56
TheMusoWhat is the default debconf priority for a dapper install supposed to be? High?23:01
cjwatsonhigh, yes23:02
TheMusocjwatson: Right, I'm trying to reproduce that libssl bug, with no luck so far...23:03
tkamppeterRiddell, no I did not come to this idea.23:06
Ngtjaalton: does the led-enabled iwl driver work ok for you?23:12
seb128Ng: I'm not sure your printer issue is a poppler one23:17
Ngseb128: oh?23:17
=== fta_ is now known as fta
seb128Ng: pdftops in poppler-utils generates a ps which looks correct23:20
seb128Ng: using evince to print the ps is correct too but I've some fonts issues apparently23:20
seb128Ng: I think the way evince works is that it renders the pdf using poppler and then use gtk to print23:21
Ngseb128: ah, so it could be gtkprint?23:23
seb128Ng: yes23:23
seb128Ng: well, how do you try printing?23:23
Ngseb128: the PS files were produced with the Print To File printer in the evince print dialog23:24
seb128Ng: do printing to a ps and using lp on the ps crashes the printer?23:24
Ngseb128: afair feeding the hardy ps on the bugreport to lpr will crash the printer23:24
seb128Ng: could you try to pdftops the pdf and try to send this ps to the printer?23:24
Ngseb128: I will wait for a quiet time in the office tomorrow and test23:25
seb128Ng: ok, thanks23:25
seb128Ng: might be https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+2.0/+bug/15114523:27
ubotuLaunchpad bug 151145 in gtk+2.0 "Evince print fails with Postscript driver" [Critical,Incomplete]23:27
Riddellcjwatson: tranlations on partition types works well23:31

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