=== asac_ is now known as asac
=== mrevell is now known as mrevell-lunch
Riddellgood afternoon13:57
* kwwii runs to get a coffee14:00
Keybukoh, yes14:01
Keybukseb128: thanks ;)14:02
seb128np ;-)14:02
Keybukmvo: there?14:02
Keybukmpt: awake? :)14:02
=== mrevell-lunch is now known as mrevell
Keybukok, the others can catch up14:05
KeybukI put together the agenda, pitti had a small bunch of agenda items - did I miss any from anyone else?14:05
pittiKeybuk: there are a few outstanding action points from the last two meetings14:06
seb128Keybuk: no but I'll have a quick one to add about the gvfs libarchive backend and whether we want to use it in hardy or not14:06
Keybukpitti: do you have them to hand, I didn't spot one?14:07
pittiKeybuk: they shuold be in the 'action points' from last one14:07
mvoKeybuk: yes14:07
* mvo was in deep hacking mode14:08
pittiah, nautilus share transition is an important one to discuss IMHO14:08
Keybukoh yes14:08
seb128mvo: napping you mean? ;-)14:08
Keybuk * Sebastien to initiate a discussion about shares-admin -> nautilus-share14:08
Keybuk upgrade migration with slangasek on u-devel@14:08
Keybukseb128: how did that discussion go?14:08
mvoseb128: isn't that the same ;)14:08
seb128we discussed it on #ubuntu-devel14:08
seb128no migration possible14:08
seb128he doesn't think that's an issue and we will write about it in the upgrade notes14:09
Keybukwhat needs migrating?14:09
seb128shres-admin does "normal" smb sharing14:09
seb128adding things to smb.conf14:09
mvoanything we can do in update-mangaer?14:09
seb128nautilus-share uses net usershare14:09
seb128and store things in /var/lib/samba/usershare14:09
seb128basically slangasek said that migration is not possible14:10
seb128because there is no way to know which shares have been added using shares-admin or in a other way14:10
Keybukif they have things in smb.conf, will they still work?14:10
seb128and migrating those to useshare could be a security issues14:10
seb128because other people will have access to thing they should not14:10
seb128and there is no way to know which ones should be public or not14:10
seb128Keybuk: yes14:11
seb128Keybuk: we just remove the way to graphically edit this list14:11
Keybukso it only really affects people wanting to modify shares they had in the past?14:11
Keybukcan they just install shares-admin?14:12
seb128not now, I dropped the binary to not get duplication etc14:12
pittiit's not a separate package14:12
Keybukah right14:12
seb128but I think I'll do a separate binary14:12
pittimaybe we can just drop the .desktop file?14:12
Keybukso was steve happy with that?14:12
seb128xubuntu users would like that too I think14:12
pittior use NotShowIn to hide it?14:12
seb128pitti: either new binary package or drop nautilus integration and menu entry14:12
seb128pitti: I suggested that to steve but he seemed to no see the point14:13
seb128and I would prefer to not have to still maintain this code14:13
seb128it's written in perl, ugly and upstream stopped maintaining it14:13
Keybukah, that thing14:13
seb128Keybuk: steve said he's happy to drop shares-admin and write something in the hardy notes about the old shares14:14
Keybukseb128: it sounds like you've had generally good feedback from your plans and no significant concerns raised?14:14
seb128since we can't migrate anyway14:14
seb128it's either we do that or never change14:14
seb128and we don't want to never change so better to bite the bullet now14:14
seb128Keybuk: right, I think everything is on track14:14
Keybuksounds like a no-brainer then :-)14:14
Keybuk * Sebastien to prepare theme change back to ubuntulooks14:15
KeybukI think I saw that get done?14:15
seb128yes, kwwii and mvo took care of the theme changes14:16
Keybuk * Sebastien to rename the tracker menu item14:16
seb128we had some random discussions on the list about menu changes, etc14:16
seb128and I think we should better wait next cycle to do those cleanup, that's late now to break translations14:16
* pitti raises hand14:17
pittiIMHO we should still fix at least "transmission"14:17
pittinobody knows what that means14:17
seb128right, need to ping jdong about this one again14:17
seb128they were working on updating or backporting changes14:18
seb128and dunno why that has not been uploaded yet14:18
Keybukdo we need a UDS session for menu changes?14:18
mdzjanebot noticed some of the menu inconsistencies14:18
mdzpitti: agreed re: "transmission"14:19
seb128well, I think menus changes discussions will lead nowhere14:19
* tedg thinks Keybuk will get the room to himself ;)14:19
seb128we already had those14:19
kwwiithat kind of thing should really be done by usability people, or?14:19
seb128I think we should think about change the menu to use gnome-main-menu or consider using the gnome-control-center shell and improve it14:19
Keybuklet's follow up on this later14:19
Keybuk * Ken to look into updating important bits of example-contents for Hardy, primarily release name14:20
seb128mdz: right, we discussed it at previous meeting, there is also an inconsistancy about using or not the software names in the menus entries, that's being discussed upstream too14:20
kwwiiKeybuk: haven't gotten around to that yet14:20
* Keybuk still has nightmares about a street of shops all names "Shoes"14:21
Keybuk * (pitti) libgphoto gvfs: keep and fix, or ditch?14:21
pittioh, I added that before I discussed it with Seb, sorry14:22
pittiI think we pretty much agreed on disabling it, since it's too buggy14:22
Keybukah, what was the result of the discussion ooi14:22
Keybukwhat replaces it?14:22
pittiany objections?14:22
pittiKeybuk: f-spot-import14:22
pittisimilar to gthumb import from rpevious releases14:22
pittithe libgphoto gvfs backend is cool, but it's not ready yet IMHO14:22
Keybukthis is the thing where the camera appears accessible to the gnome vfs14:22
Keybukinstead of needing to spawn a program to deal with it?14:23
pittiit appears in places and computer:///, but clicking on photos doesn't work (missing eog gvfs integration), it's not automounted, and if it's mounted, it blocks f-spot14:23
seb128it does mount your camera14:23
seb128and you can use it as a standard mount14:23
Keybukah, and doesn't get the photos into f-spot?14:23
pittiKeybuk: no, you just get a file browser14:23
pitti(which might not be what most people want to do with their camera, dunno)14:24
seb128well, it makes you gphoto camera being seen as a removable disk14:24
Keybukgot it14:24
pittiso, I think it would be great to use in intrepid14:24
Keybukif you're both happy with disabling for now and reviewing later, that's fine14:24
seb128you can copy directly from the folder if your app use gvfs14:24
pittiwhen we'll switch f-spot/gthumb to file-based import14:24
seb128which is not the case yet14:24
pittiand 'mount' the camera14:24
pittithen you can have both14:24
pitti*shiny* *shiny* :)14:24
Keybuk"This folder contains pictures from a camera.  [ Import into F-Spot ]"14:24
pittibut I guess for that it needs a real fuse mount, otherwise you can just see it from gvfs-enabled apps14:25
KeybukI half expected someone to write an LD_PRELOAD wrapper that wrapped open(), creat(), etc. with gvfs calls :p14:25
awalton__that should already work fine if you have gvfs-fuse installed and working.14:25
Keybukbut anyway, digressing into dangerous territory ;)14:25
Keybuk * (seb128) gvfs libarchive backend, use in hardy?14:26
awalton__there's just not a way yet to make that "apparent" to users.14:26
Keybukis this "open tar files as a folder" ?14:26
seb128Keybuk: ok, where we stand now is that the current gvfs in hardy has the libarchive backend14:26
seb128we promoted libarchive for that14:26
seb128it's not used now but I've the change ready, fedora is using it14:26
seb128that's basically added a .desktop to nautilus which gives you a "mount archive" context menu option on zip, iso, etc14:27
seb128and the mounted archive is listed as mount then14:27
seb128you can browse it, copy from it, etc14:27
mvowhat about file-roller then? its no longer needed with that?14:27
Keybukdoes it work?14:27
seb128Keybuk: it works fine yes14:28
seb128I think the "have to mount and then use" user experience is not optimal14:28
pittiso ideally it would work like file-roller, but look like nautilus?14:28
Keybukyeah, I guess you just want to double-click14:28
seb128but it's not exposed a lot and easy to use for those who want the feature14:28
seb128mvo: file-roller is needed because libarchive does only cpio, zip, iso14:29
KeybukWhy isn't it the default action?14:29
pittizip:///home/martin/foo.zip/path/inside/zip.txt nautilus window would be cool :)14:29
seb128another thing is that libarchive does reading only14:29
seb128Keybuk: ^14:29
seb128which means you can't add files to a zip for example14:29
Keybukany plans for it to expand its format support or be writable?14:29
seb128and it doesn't support rar, ace, and other formats which are used14:30
Keybukany downsides to activating it? does it break anything else?14:30
pittilibarchive itself supports writing, but I doubt that it gets support for other formats anytime soon14:30
seb128Keybuk: Company is speaking about it, but not sure how much work that is and if that's going to happen soon14:30
seb128Keybuk: no, the gvfs backend is already activated14:30
Keybukdo you think we should activate it?14:31
seb128that just adds a context menu item and a string to translate14:31
mvosounds like its harmless because file-roller is still the default and its just a optional new feature14:31
seb128the downside is to have to support libarchive for the lts14:31
Keybukwill we have to support it for intrepid?14:31
Keybukthen we'll be supporting it anyway14:31
Keybukseb128: your decision :-)14:32
seb128well, I've difficulties to evaluate how many users are wanting to browse isos14:32
seb128there was some users on the brainstorm website asking for a such feature14:32
Keybukactually, I hear quite a bit that being able to use .dmg files is a killer mac feature14:33
Keybukyeah, indeed14:33
Keybukso taking a step towards that for us seems good too14:33
Keybuk(of course, running programs from inside isos will mean that ld.so will need gvfs support <g>)14:33
seb128ok, so my vote would be to activate it, my concern was just adding extra load on the security team for something not really required14:33
Keybukseb128: check with kees, but if it's already in main, it sounds like he's approved it14:33
seb128yeah, we discussed it on friday14:34
pittiKeybuk: (note that file-roller browses ISOs just fine, too)14:34
seb128that was basically "if you really want it, alright"14:34
Keybuk * (pitti) Coordination of fixing /etc diff for upgrades (Michael started to provide diffs now, thanks a lot!)14:34
pittiright, so http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/automatic-upgrade-testing/kvm/profile/lts-ubuntu/etc.diff is a nice and handy 5.2 MB (!!) diff14:35
pittibetween /etc/ upgraded from dapper and a fresh hardy installation14:35
pittiI think there are probably many bombs and bugs inside14:35
mvoit dosn't purge obsolete packages currently though14:35
pittiso we should at least go through it with a fine comb, and turn errors into bug reports14:35
pittimvo: do you think you can regenerate it with purged uninstalled packages?14:36
pittialthough I suppose stuff like the /etc/cron.daily/find bug wouldn't have appeared then14:36
mvoI will create a run with purge later, but my test-machine is running out of space to do too many of those in parallel (I "only" have a 320GB hdd for this)14:36
pittimvo: anyway, I think we just need to check newly added files in /etc/rc*.d/ for now, and can ignore others, right?14:36
pittithat should make it easier14:37
pittiI'm willing to work on that and turn it into a bug list, but I might need some more hands to fix all of them14:37
Keybukpitti: is that changes between /etc from dapper to hardy?14:37
Keybukah yes, you said that14:37
mvoprobably, at least a exlucd list for stuff like /etc/altneratives should be added to the diff generator14:37
pittiKeybuk: between a dapper->hardy upgrade and a hardy fresh install14:38
seb128pitti: are those changes really an issue?14:38
Keybukoh, right14:38
pittiyes, probably14:38
pittiin the last weeks I fixed a few bugs which e. g. totally broke hal on dapper->hardy upgrade14:38
pittimissing or wrong transitions in postinsts, etc.14:38
mvoseb128: some are, /etc/cron.daily/find caused trouble for example with diversion in slocate under some circumstances14:38
pittior obsolete configuration files which don't match the new version any more14:38
Keybukmvo: are you planning to review and file bugs?14:38
pittiso, we don't need to get the diff down to 0, but we need to watch out for real bugs14:39
mvoKeybuk: yeah, I plan to review them (and did to some extend)14:39
pittimvo: shall we attack it together?14:39
Keybukpitti: or are you?14:39
mvosure, together is even better14:39
pittimvo: we could start at opposite ends of the file and work towards meeting i n the middle or so14:39
seb128seems that quite some issues are packages not cleaning conffiles on upgrade when they stop shipping those14:40
seb128dpkg should really do that automatically14:40
pittiwe have similar diffs for gutsy->hardy and a few other cases, but I guess this is the biggest/worst one14:40
seb128having to add maintainer scripts to do that is annoying14:40
mvoseb128: yeah, the amount of copied rm_conffile is really anoying14:40
pittiat least if they weren't modified, yeah14:41
Keybukjust be glad we *have* a relatively standard function for it now <g>14:41
mvowe should ship common snippets like rm_conffile or mv_conffile in some central package so that they can be sourced at least IMHO14:41
pittiI do see the point for keeping modified ones, but there is *no* reason for unmodified ones14:41
seb128mvo: indeed14:41
Keybukmvo: I've been arguing for ages that they should be debhelper things14:41
mvoyeah, that would be fine as well14:41
Keybuksince even when people use them, they forget prep_rm_conffile, undo_rm_conffile, finish_rm_conffile in preinst and postrm :)14:41
seb128pitti: well, usually that's maintainers not knowing they need a snippet or not not been careful about that14:42
pittiTBH, most of the time I just remove them in postinst14:42
Keybukpitti: then they show up as an obsolete file in dpkg14:42
seb128what I do too14:42
pittierm, preinst I mean14:42
Keybukpitti: then if the unpack fails, the file vanishes forever ;)14:42
pittiit's just too painful to get it 100% right without introducing other bugs FWIW14:43
Keybukanyway, dpkg sucks14:43
Keybukmvo, pitti: you're both happy to go through that file together and file bugs?14:43
mvoat least this bit in it :P14:43
pittiKeybuk: ack14:43
mvoKeybuk: yeah14:43
KeybukI'm sure I can probably be blamed for some of them14:43
Keybuk * (pitti) next week I'll be at the LinuxFoundation collaboration summit in Austin; anything I should do/ask/tell/promote there?14:44
mvoI will also keep the regular kvm tests running here and report issues14:44
pitti^ good to know for the default assignee :-P14:44
mvoliw was doing some work here too recently, that is pretty cool14:44
pittioh, that's not really something to discuss here, just a general question to the team14:44
Keybukok, if you have things for pitti to do at the LF summit next week, please tell him ;-)14:44
Keybukpitti: beware of "The Tilted Kilt"14:44
mvobuy me some hardware :P14:44
* pitti ponders what to bring as a souvenir - a Colt, a barrel of oil, or a cactus14:45
Keybuk * Final call for UDS Agenda topics14:45
KeybukI'll be putting together the draft agenda (ie. list of topics to discuss and a paragraph summary of each) tomorrow14:45
seb128- rethink the menus?14:45
tedgIs there a list of UDS agenda topics?14:45
Keybukyou've all given me a list, but if you have anything else, please e-mail it me14:45
Keybuktedg: that's what I'll be writing <g>14:46
ogra_cmpcpitti, take the colt, thats likely the most exciting at customs :)14:46
tedgKeybuk: Okay, I don't have any others to add :)14:47
Keybukmvo: bug #21017314:48
ubotuLaunchpad bug 210173 in transmission "Transmission does not use .desktop translations from Rosetta" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/21017314:48
mvowill take care of it14:49
KeybukRiddell: bug #20786314:49
ubotuLaunchpad bug 207863 in qt4-x11 "assert in qbrush.cpp on LPIA (skype)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/20786314:49
Riddellhmm, proprietry software on a platform i can't test14:50
Keybuksure, but if it's in the sponsoring queue, it means someone's already done a ptach14:50
Keybukyou just need to check that, and upload14:50
pittiKeybuk: "ptach" is a Klingon name-calling...14:50
Riddellyep, sponsorship queue is on my todo14:51
Keybukpitti: it's slightly worrying that you know that ;)14:51
MacSlowpitti, I'm amazed :)14:51
pittidon't tell me you guy's didn't watch Star Trek TNG/Voyager14:51
MacSlowsure I did/do14:52
Keybukseb128: bug #199402 looks like it was fixed and got re-opened ?14:52
ubotuLaunchpad bug 199402 in metacity "gnome-appearance-properties crashed with SIGSEGV in meta_theme_get_frame_style()" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19940214:52
MacSlowand waiting for the new StarTrek-movie14:52
kwwiiit just takes a special kind of person to learn klingon :-)14:52
seb128Keybuk: yeah, I just unsubscribed the sponsors14:52
seb128Keybuk: I don't think the guy who reopened has the same issue14:52
seb128the bug was a crash, and he has a lack of preview in the capplet14:53
seb128anyway nothing to sponsor there14:53
Keybuk*waits for LP*14:53
* Keybuk sits down and starts singing about gold14:53
Keybukmvo: bug #10455314:53
ubotuLaunchpad bug 104553 in fontconfig "upgrade failed when fontconfig cache dirs are newer than system date" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/10455314:53
KeybukI remember that one came up before?14:53
mvoI'm not happy with the patch, I would rather want to fix it in fontconfig (and I believe its fixed there already)14:54
Keybukcan you unsubscribe u-m-s14:55
mvomy bad, I need to remove it from u-m-s14:55
Keybukooh look one for me14:55
Keybukmvo: also new patch on #8791414:55
Keybukmdz: since you're here ... bug #15051 <g>14:56
seb128bug #8791414:56
ubotuLaunchpad bug 15051 in pcre3 "grep -P is not supported" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1505114:56
ubotuLaunchpad bug 87914 in update-manager "Progress bar refers to "1 minutes" or "1 hours"" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/8791414:56
mvodholbach: could you please unsubscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors from #10455314:56
Keybukdholbach: likewise, please unsub from #9412014:56
dholbachI can add you both to the team14:56
KeybukI don't want to be a member of the team14:56
* mvo check 8791414:56
mvodholbach: yeah, please add me14:57
dholbachthanks mvo14:57
dholbachKeybuk: done (#104553)14:57
KeybukI'm doing everything I can to cut down my bug mail to levels where I can actually read and respond to the incoming bugs14:57
dholbachKeybuk: you're not getting bug mail - it goes to a list :)14:58
Keybukso don't really want to join lp teams14:58
Keybuk(also it'll make people think I'm able to do sponsorship requests)14:58
dholbachfine with me14:59
Keybukdoesn't look like there's anything new on there14:59
Keybukor any changes from last time14:59
Keybukpedro_: ?14:59
pedro_no there's nothing new on there14:59
pedro_leann add the date reported column to it and also if the report is less than 10 days old it will mark it as yellow15:00
Keybukah, then there are two new things on there15:00
Keybukboth for human-theme15:00
Keybukah, just tasks on bug #9950815:01
ubotuLaunchpad bug 99508 in compiz "Window titlebar displayed not right with compiz enabled" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/9950815:01
mvotwo of the compiz ones require a new upstream snapshot, I guess I need to talk with steve about this15:01
pedro_change of state IIRC15:01
mvothe "Wrongly placed maximized window with cloned display" ones15:01
KeybukI didn't see any additions to ReportingPage today?  nothing to report for the last week?15:01
pittinothing fancy from me15:01
pitti"bug fixing, and more of it"15:01
mvoupgrade test from gutsy->hardy is running, 20.000 pkgs, VM needs 2.8Gb ram to run smoothly and is 24h later at 15%15:02
Keybukok, adjourned15:02
kwwiimvo, pitti, seb128: just for information I have several updated packages to be uploaded (human-icon-theme, ubuntu-gdm-themes, human-theme, and ubuntulooks)15:03
Keybukthanks all15:03
kwwiierm, wrong channel15:03
pittithansk all15:03
mdzKeybuk: what about it?15:07
Keybukmdz: it's assigned to you ;)15:07
Keybukyou have to review it, and upload it; or unsubscribe the ubuntu-main-sponsors team, etc.15:08
KeybukI'm almost entirely trolling <g>15:08
mdzKeybuk: it is not15:08
Keybukit has mdz in bold letters in dholbach's list15:08
mdzit's assigned to nobody15:08
mdzI just looked15:08
mdzI think it's too late for Hardy, unfortunately15:09
=== doko_ is now known as doko

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