[00:00] Riddell: sorry for getting your name wrong in my mail just sent... :( [00:01] Riddell: I was referred here from kubuntu-kde4. I would like to see the removal of systemsettings from the "Settings" submenu of the KDE4 menu widgets reverted. [00:02] The rational being that users of the Traditional menu don't have the "Computer" tab that Kickoff has. [00:02] [18:55:31] Was this on purpose or should I file a bug? [00:02] [18:57:44] I think this was done on purpose since it is still present under computer [00:02] [18:57:56] however I don't really like it either [00:02] [18:57:59] There is no computer tab in the traditional menu [00:02] that menu should be fixed then [00:03] for the logs: I don't like it because systemsettings don't turn up when I search for them in the searchbar in kickoff [00:03] Oh hey, you're right. It doesn't. [00:04] (that is quite annoying for me) [00:04] cause I use that search a lot [00:05] Even though I prefer the Traditional Menu to Kickoff, I must say that the search feature is one of the most compelling features of Kickoff [02:26] evening :) [02:28] Hello mate [02:32] hello DaSkreech [02:32] How are you? [02:33] doing well, getting ready for vacation next week [02:33] sounds good === jjesse_ is now known as jjesse [02:48] don't you hate projects youve been working so long on you don't want to get started back on? [02:49] * Hobbsee uses the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!™ on jjesse to motivate him [02:49] grin thanks Hobbsee [03:30] oh my body hurts [03:34] nixternal: Told you not to eat all the food [03:35] I didn't dude. Bruce Perens ate all of the food [03:35] that guy never stops eating [03:35] he got there before you did? [03:36] I had breakfast with him...he eats faster than he talks [03:36] and when he talks, there is no telling where it is going [03:36] he sounds like one of my cats [03:36] we went from Ubuntu and how great it is to Regan and Star Wars, China, something about Rye [03:36] and I can't remember what else [03:37] he has a few screws loose [03:37] mm, konsole-kde4 is nicer than gnome-terminal [no surprise there] [03:37] omg...the Open Source panel, had a Microsoft representative on it [03:37] Maddog and Bruce ate that poor guy up [03:37] and Bottomely even got in a few jabs [03:38] bottomely? [03:38] `What did they do? [03:49] wow that canonical training program branch is super huge, still trying to branch [03:50] How many people does canonical employ ? [03:50] DaSkreech: no clue [03:50] its the official ubuntu training branch is what i'm working on [03:50] * jjesse isn't an employee [04:25] `A fie on my Grandma!! She told me to be an actor! [04:25] :P [04:27] `Oooh You look ljust like clark gable [06:16] http://board.gulli.com/ === hunger_t is now known as hunger === hunger_t is now known as hunger [09:59] nixternal: you cannot zoom in [09:59] only out [09:59] and that will resize the toolbox [09:59] so if you zoom out you get lost if you don't have a very precise mouse [09:59] also [10:00] you can _remove_ vital plasmoids [10:00] like the whole bottom bar [10:00] in fact, in a stock setup that is all you can do [10:00] break you desktop in the easiest ways possible [10:01] Riddell: slow, I think the only things that are missing right now are the kross dependencies on python and ruby [10:01] * apachelogger is quite busy with school [11:00] morning :) [11:06] Nightrose: hi! [11:06] hey :) [11:43] so, should i stay part of kubuntu members? [11:46] * Nightrose votes yes [11:49] neat, i can choose my own subscription date [11:56] 'morning folks! [11:58] heya [14:07] Nightrose: ok, thanks. should I be present at the meeting? [14:07] yes [14:07] you will be asked some questions [14:07] * Serega said 'f..ck' about netsplit :) [14:07] ;-) [14:07] if you can't make it it might be possible to do it via email [14:07] or just wait for the next meeting [14:08] if you want to see how it usually works have a look at the log of the last meeting [14:08] Nightrose: when will be the next? [14:08] there were two going for membership [14:08] not sure [14:08] Jucato: do you know? [14:08] nope.. I kinda lost track of meetings since January... [14:09] there was a nasty trend of being on the times when I had real life :( [14:09] ;-) [14:09] * Nightrose hugs Jucato [14:09] thanks :) [14:10] Serega: just wait - it will be announced in the topic [14:10] * ryanakca can't win with meetings... either a) they're at 5AM, or b) they're on a Wednesday while I'm at band practice... [14:10] ooh band :) [14:10] kool [14:10] wohooo netsplits should be over now accoding to cristel \o/ [14:10] well, pipe band :) [14:11] riiiight.... over now... [14:11] we'll see :) [14:11] * Serega has bought electric guitar two weeks ago [14:11] hurra :) [14:11] ;-) [14:11] Serega: can you play it? or are you taking lessons? [14:12] * Nightrose played accordeon and keyboard way back then ;-) [14:12] uh oh... [14:12] Serega: I have much exp on accoustic one, so I hope to master this new guitar by myself :) [14:12] cool [14:12] now you reminded me that it will almost be 1 year since I got a violin... and I can't even play "Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star" on it... [14:13] I play keyboards too! [14:13] Serega: talking to ourself now, are we? :) [14:13] * Jucato can play basic keyboards/piano [14:13] PC 104 key is preferred [14:13] lol [14:13] ;-) [14:14] Jucato: :) [14:17] Jucato: ah... I just realize what you was talking about :))) [14:18] lol! 5 minutes! :) [14:18] long ping [14:18] :D [14:18] That msg was for Nightrose? of course [14:18] *delete '?' [14:18] ;-) [14:18] yea [14:18] got it [14:19] obviously :) [14:19] we're not talking to ryanakca anyway :) [14:19] * Jucato runs and hides [14:19] why? O.o :) [14:19] Serega: beyond me ;) [14:20] why? because there's no one else :) [14:20] * Jucato keeps quiet now... [14:36] Hey everyone, I'm Joseph Tate, one of the primary developers of Foresight's KDE edition. I'm here to pick your brains mostly. :) [14:37] hi [14:37] I mainly want a forum where I can confirm bugs to be upstream or not before I go bug kde devs. [14:38] but info on how you solve issues like Network Manager, and Pulse Audio/ConsoleKit integration would be nice too. [14:38] isn't there a cross-distro KDE mailing list for that sort of stuff? [14:38] not thatyou aren't welcome or anything ;) [14:38] Well, Nightrose said that this was kind of a congregating place [14:39] but yes, I'll be trying to liven up kde-packagers too. [14:39] hey jtate :) [14:39] welcome [14:40] Nightrose: thanks [14:40] I see nixternal is here too. [14:40] and crimsun? I haven't chatted with you in ages. [14:41] jtate: FYI there is also #kubuntu-testers [14:41] where you can ask for stuff to be tested/confirmed [14:41] cool [14:42] * jtate may need to start work on adv_adv_windowlist.pl for irssi [14:42] hehe [14:51] One of our biggest problems right now is getting Flash to work in konqueror. Have you solved this problem already? [14:52] in kde 3? [14:52] no, kde4 [14:52] kde3 just worked [14:52] admittedly I'm trying to get 64 bit konq to interface with 32 bit flash... [14:53] heh [14:53] thought u were still talking about the xembed issue [14:53] Seems to work Ok in Firefox... [14:54] 64 bit firefox? [14:54] yes [14:54] but that took significant engineering by another Foresight dev. [14:55] nspluginwrapper is supposed to support that. [14:56] yep [15:01] don't have a x64 machine to test this on [15:01] 32 bit konq with flash work ok? [15:02] let me check, i still prefer ff to konq [15:02] jtate: it magically worked here with amd64 kde3 konqueror [15:02] kde 4 konq is the questions :P [15:02] *question [15:02] oh :P [15:03] yeah jtate 32 bit konq 4 works fine with flash [15:04] Ok, we'll probably just have to extend the engineering from firefox over. I'll let you know what I figure out. [15:05] if kde4's konq support xembed now (am not sure), it should work fine with latest nspluginwrapper [15:06] jtate: if ever you get an adv_adv_windowlist.pl done, let me know :) [15:08] ryanakca: will do [15:35] jtate: what are you doing in here spying? :p [15:36] nixternal_: just brain picking. CheGuevara and nosrednaekim have been very helpful. [15:38] (you could try picking nixternal_'s nose...) [15:38] (btw he seems to have grown a tail) [15:39] oO [15:39] nixternal_: how was your talk? [15:39] went up there in a gnome shirt? *g* [15:57] apachelogger: heh, I have just read the Amarok 2.0 feature list, and you don't want to know what I'm thinking about it :o) [15:58] apachelogger: (remember our kickoff conversation to get the idea) [16:01] the selling point of Amarok 1 for me was no-nonsense approach to music, it was just a big list of tracks... now with all the SVG and plasma and integration with internet shops it is going to eat all the RAM just so I can play music... [16:02] playing music != looking at some covers flyby 3D style [16:02] mhb: you can disable about everything of that [16:02] and no 3d yet [16:02] and if it is going to come you can disable it as well [16:02] Nightrose: I'm sure you feature creep fans are going for it [16:02] please... [16:03] just an observation [16:03] yes it is a SoC proposal [16:03] but that doesn't mean that: [16:03] a) it is going to happen [16:03] and b) that you will need to use it [16:03] and c) no bling without features [16:03] I'm going to wait for the numbers [16:03] you can be sure about these 3 things [16:04] if Amarok 2 eats more ram than Amarok 1, it's going out the door :o) [16:04] noone can stop you... [16:04] and noone forces you to use 2 [16:04] so we're keeping amarok 1 in kubuntu indefinitely? Yay! [16:05] no, you will force me by trying to force it into kubuntu by default [16:05] no idea - but worse come to worse you can compile it [16:05] and please let's talk about this once Amarok 2 is released [16:05] and you gave it a try [16:06] sure [16:07] and another thing you have to keep in mind: [16:07] you need to be inovative [16:07] otherwise you will be left behind [16:07] that's BS, frankly [16:07] and this is exactly ehat we are tring to do with amarok 2 [16:07] if we will succeed is another thing [16:07] *what [16:08] you do not have to be "innovative", after all, you just have to label a product like this. Vista was not innovative in many ways, yet every other word in the brochures was "innovative". [16:08] ... [16:09] Nightrose: "rm" is still with us and I haven't heard about "innovating it" [16:10] * Nightrose thinks that is a completely different thing [16:11] Nightrose: irssi also does not innovate much, no radical new UI with SVGs and plasmoids, and I'm still using it [16:11] Nightrose: because it works well and fast [16:11] and once quassel is ready irssi will have a though competitor [16:12] just not there yet... [16:12] well, it's been around for a long time irssi [16:12] that is true [16:12] and I am not saying it will vanish [16:12] but competition will be tough [16:13] Nightrose: I'm saying that it seems to me that Amarok 2 is heading to become Mozilla (the product) [16:13] everything included [16:13] I don't think we are [16:13] but (almost) nobody usue it [16:13] uses [16:13] right now we are trying a lot of things [16:14] not everything will make it into the final version [16:14] or will be enabled by default [16:14] like I said, you trying many things implies feature creep. No offense. [16:14] and we have always had very sane defaults I think [16:14] you should trust us a little ;-) [16:15] get Donald Knuth as a lead feature planner and I'll trust you :o) [16:16] * mhb trusts bright scientists, open source software developers less so === LjL-Temp is now known as LjL [16:17] hehe [16:17] or ast, he is trying to fight feature creep a lot these days [16:17] I can asure you we have a few people in the team who really know what they are doing concerning this [16:17] unfortunately, your planned features suggest otherwise [16:18] they want all that shiny nonsense in [16:18] plasma, SVG UI and so on [16:18] but I doubt that's what makes the majority of users, techical or not, happy [16:19] well plasma will be awesome exactly because you might be able to design your own context view [16:19] so have only the stuff there you really care about [16:19] so less clutter in the end [16:19] no, plasma will be horrid because it'll just consume resources and most of the users won't design any such thing anyway [16:19] and svgs are awesome because it perfectly blends in with your desktop [16:19] but go for it, integrate as much as you need [16:19] and more [16:19] mhb: you could always fork Amarok, take an axe to it and get rid of the feature creep if you really wanted to :) [16:20] mhb: did you try it yet wrt plasma's memory usage? [16:20] * Hobbsee thought that was minirok. [16:20] and sure a lot of people will not write their own plasmoids [16:20] ryanakca: or, someone else would (will, I'm sure) do it and I'll just use my superpowers to get rid of that bloated amarok in kubuntu [16:20] but that is not the point [16:20] they can use others [16:21] (others plasmoids that is) [16:21] of course, I'm assuming it will get bloated, which might not be the point, as Nightrose says === neversfelde_ is now known as neversfelde [16:21] it may seem likely to me, but that's just speculation [16:23] Hobbsee: minirok will have to wait until after akademy it seems [16:23] Nightrose: I'm also guessing you will fail to get much OS X and Windows market share... because how big would a standalone Amarok build be, when you only have a clean XP system ready? [16:23] Stecchino is _very_ busy with work and preperation for akademy [16:23] 60MBs? more? [16:24] you have to get all of qt, kdelibs, then plasmoids, and more [16:24] that's not 30KBs [16:24] mhb: that is a problem we are working on with the kde on windows guys [16:24] and we will solve it eventually [16:24] we already have some ideas [16:24] well, unless you remove the bloat... :o) [16:24] ... [16:25] * Nightrose cuddles mhb [16:25] people seem to like software that has <10MBs in size [16:25] everything will be fine in the end ;-) [16:25] I would just like to mention that the split modes in konsole-kde4 rock arse. That is all. [16:25] hehe [16:26] hmm, I still like my console app which does not need several MBs of libs just to load [16:26] (urxvt) [16:26] then again, I'm disappointed with a lot of FLOSS software these days [16:27] Firefox, Pidgin, Amarok1, k3b, kaffeine I like. [16:28] plasma, KDE4, GNOME I don't. [16:28] (/me is in love with kde 4's present windows effect) [16:29] wake me up when it won't take several seconds on a C2D CPU just to display the background :o) [16:30] meaning the splash screen. Whatever needs a splash screen is bloated, usually. [16:31] hmm, minirok looks interesting [16:36] Nightrose: who did you say develop it? Stecchino? [16:36] yes [16:38] how do you spell it, is he on IRC perchance? [16:39] [17:38] [Whois] Stecchino is n=bart@amarok/developer/Stecchino (Bart Cerneels) [16:39] ah, right... I was whoising the wrong server, sorry [16:39] ;-) [18:54] woah... http://ryanak.ca/~ryan/gnomeandkde4.png ... I was running gnome on vt7 a few days ago, logged out... then I decided to start KDE4 on vt7... and it looks like I have a wierd mixture of KDE4 and GNOME [18:58] http://ryanak.ca/~ryan/gnomeandkde5.png ... just happens on one virtual desktop/workspace though... [19:04] wut's up with b43? made me go to ndis... that def. shouldn't happen in final... [19:04] good work on the compiz integration tho... [19:05] i appreciate you guys and i'd be here dev'in too if i had nuf $$, back to work, sry 4 trollin' [19:18] ryanakca: I can't figure out how can you survive with just one konsole [19:19] ryanakca: of course, if I were picky I'd say that a console over the whole screen creates a bad practice when hacking [19:19] ryanakca: a nice coder respects the 80 characters [19:19] ryanakca: also shorter lines make the code a lot more readable [19:20] ryanakca: I'm a wise-guy a lot these days, ain't I? :o) sorry [20:18] <_Sime_> grrrr crashy plasma [20:19] <_Sime_> wow that killed all my kde4 apps.... [20:20] man, the taglist plugin to vim is so nice. :) [20:24] mhb: one console, 10 tabs. [20:26] and a screen [20:26] oh, yes, and then you have screen... figure that each tab has a screen with up to three subscreens/windowns :) [20:27] Who said you need more than one konsole window? :P [20:27] i need more than one :) [20:28] to utilize the kwin features. those nice present windows and present desktops features :) [20:28] lol, don't let mhb hear you say that :) [20:31] * yuriy isn't a fan of present windows [20:31] i am. [20:32] now that it have nice search features. [20:32] type-ahead-search-thing. [20:32] hmm... how do you use that? [20:32] * ryanakca thinks he has pretty much every KWin feature enabled... mouse to top left/right? [20:33] ctrl-f10 [20:33] and start typing for example 'konq' [20:33] if you have a konq open. [20:33] heh. Interesting [20:33] yep, pretty nice. [20:33] Mind you, I rarely have enough windows open on the desktop that I can't quickly cycle through them with alt-tab [20:34] i use f10, without ctrl to make it quicker [20:34] that is just because you find it messy and you can't manage them all at once. with this nice feature and 2Gigs of ram i'm super-happy :) [20:35] lol [20:35] * ryanakca only has 512mb :) [20:35] I do agree though, that 10+ windows gets messy without this feature because you have a hard time finding the correct window. [20:35] a special nice feature is that it searches window titles, so webpage-titles does work. [20:36] 512? ouch. [20:36] * yuriy throws mhb a bone [20:36] so finding the konq with for example kubuntu.org is quick. [20:37] ryanakca: what type of ram do you use? - i have some left over laptop ram. ddr2-dimm pc5300. [20:38] heh i have a gig of that lying around as well [20:38] fdoving: Umm... just a sec, I'll check. I think its only PC3200 or something of the sort [20:38] gah more kernel updates [20:39] * yuriy isn't rebooting his desktop again until hardy is released unless n-m forces him too again [20:39] PC3200 DDR 400MHz :) [20:39] ok, can't use the ddr2-dimm then. :| [20:39] * ryanakca wishes there was a shortcut to change the opacity of your window [20:39] nope :) [20:39] set one [20:40] ryanakca: i use the mousewheel/touchpad scroll on the window decoration for that. [20:40] oh yeah that isn't set to anything by default on kde4 [20:40] move your cursor to the top-left corner [20:41] or configure it in system settings -> window behavior -> window behavior -> titlebar actions -> titlebar wheel event [20:42] taxes suck [20:42] yep. [20:44] * ryanakca would like to thank icecc for making his server compile instead of his desktop :) [20:44] yeah, icecc is so nice. [20:44] * ryanakca is rebuilding KDE4 ... takes half the time :) [20:44] * ryanakca wonders if you could use it for package building... [20:46] sure. [20:47] do you use pbuilder? [20:47] should be possible to install it in the build-chroot and save it. [20:50] fdoving: sbuild/schroot... but yeah [20:52] hi Serega, sorry the meeting didn't happen === kitterma is now known as ScottK2 [20:53] Riddell: hi Jonathan, it's ok [20:53] does anybody use any IDE for python? [20:54] awen_: How do the Guidance changes in your PPA look for being uploaded? [20:54] ryanakca: if one large konsole suits you, so be it ... just remember to hack in 80 char lines [20:54] Serega: vim :) [20:54] Serega: I don't, but I do like the highlighting for Python in kate. [20:55] mhb: but 80 char lines are so dull... especially when you're in python and 16-20 of those chars are spaces to indent. :D [20:55] ScottK2: i haven't received any confirmation that they work... but i'm pretty confident, that they actually do solve the problem, so please include them [20:55] Serega: Both eric and spe are up to date in Hardy. The spe developer is an Ubuntu user and somewhat active on #ubuntu-motu. [20:55] awen_: [20:55] ryanakca: don't tell me... [20:55] awen_: OK. Thanks. [20:55] ryanakca: code practice is nothing to you, is it? :o) [20:56] ScottK2: did you see, that we received a patch for making it survive hal/dbus restarts ... do you include that one also? [20:56] awen_: I'm having trouble right now where my brightness doesn't change when I plug/unplug power. Is that something you fixed? [20:56] awen_: I did and I plan to. [20:56] mhb: lol, well, my vt isn't even 80 chars wide :( [20:57] ryanakca: yep, I already use vim, but it is so boring to search method names and etc manually [20:57] Serega: iirc, there's a KDevelop for Scripting languages [20:57] ScottK2: thanks. [20:57] Serega: get taglist plugin [20:58] fdoving: ouw... did heard about that, thank you [20:58] ryanakca: that's because of the silly font in Konsole [20:58] ScottK2: no, i didn't look at brightness change on plug/unplug events ... they work fine for me [20:59] Serega: it's nice, just recently started to use it. shot: http://frode.kde.no/misc/vim-taglist.png [20:59] So now it's working ... [20:59] Nevermind. [20:59] awen_: It's more complicated it seems. Give me a moment to look at it. [20:59] mhb: no, ctrl-alt-f[1-6] [21:00] ryanakca: that should be exactly 80x25 [21:00] fdoving: awesome!!! exactly what miss with vim! [21:00] Serega: and you know how to use tabs and split windows, right? :) [21:00] I hope it works with python [21:00] ScottK2: yeah... i see, there is something strange here too [21:01] awen_: It's odd. Sometimes after I plug back in brightness restores for about a second and then goes dim again. [21:01] fdoving: of course :) [21:01] Serega: then you're set :) [21:01] fdoving: I like vim very much [21:01] me too. [21:01] we all love vim [21:02] maybe I miss something else very cosy? :) [21:02] it rocks, unlike most k*s and g*s :o) [21:02] ScottK2: i can't reproduce exectly that here ... but i remember seeing something in the code, that might be part of the cause, i'll try to make a patch and see, if it changes anything [21:02] Serega: the kde-devel.vim script, but that's only usefull if you do kde and c++. [21:03] awen_: Sounds good. [21:04] btw, guys, KDevelop assistant looks broken, it's index is full but no pages found. Does anybody use it? [21:04] qt-doc & friends are installed [22:12] nixternal_: have you looked at the kubuntu-docs-intrepid to clean up like mdke did w/ ubuntu-docs for intrepid? [22:56] ScottK2: I've made a patch that will solve the brightness problem in some cases ... but after some testing i can see, that at least in my case, it seems like hal is getting confused about the brightness settings when i plug/unplug to many times [22:57] That sounds like progress. [22:57] Progress is good. [22:57] awen_: I'd say let's go for it. [22:58] ScottK2: yeah ... we can't really do much more in guidance, and I really don't want to touch hal :) [22:58] * ScottK2 neither. [22:58] ScottK2: the ~ppa2 contains both the gamma and the brightness fix [22:59] awen_: OK. Would you please link me. [23:00] https://launchpad.net/~andreas-wenning/+archive ... I'll just make you a real debdiff, two mins [23:01] OK. Thanks. [23:01] awen_: Would you apply smarter's patch too. [23:01] awen_: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kde-guidance/+bug/123812 [23:01] Launchpad bug 123812 in kde-guidance "RFE: powermanager should handle dbus, hald restarts" [Wishlist,Confirmed] [23:02] ScottK2: I'll do [23:02] Thanks [23:05] is there a jasper command line executable? [23:10] ScottK2: i keep getting "patch: **** unexpected end of file in patch" when trying to apply the debdiff ... any better way than "patch -p1 < [patchname]" to apply a debdiff [23:10] That's how I usually do it. [23:11] Debdiffs I usually use -p0 [23:12] ScottK2: got it ... it was reversed :) [23:12] Ah. [23:13] patch/unpatch, it's all the same in the end ... [23:13] ScottK2: no... hmm [23:14] Not? [23:15]