[00:00] <genixpro> I'm downloading several version of Ubuntu to run in virtual pc's to make packages for my program www.globulation2.org . I'm wondering if theres any tips/considerations I should know about before hand? I know that there are already glob2 packages in the motu, but these packages are outdated, and outdated clients can't play on our hosted online gaming
[00:04] <sistpoty> genixpro: is the version in hardy (0.8.23) outdated as well=
[00:04] <sistpoty> ?
[00:06] <genixpro> sistpoty, We are at 0.9.2 right now, and very soon we are going to release 0.9.3, and we want 0.9.3 to be a major release to re-stimulate our community, so we want every major distribution to have it on release day, to have packages for everyone, etc..
[00:08] <sistpoty> genixpro: well, we're very, very close to release right now, and we cannot easily change s.th. that has been released again. Hence we try to stabilize every package some time before release (which is coming to the final phase now)
[00:09] <genixpro> sistpoty, what do you mean by stabalize?
[00:09] <sistpoty> genixpro: well, find out if it has bugs, and fix these
[00:09] <genixpro> sistpoty, so you have coders that go into the actual programs themselves?
[00:10] <sistpoty> genixpro: no, not at that depth. everyone can test the development version and we rely on bugs getting reported
[00:11] <sistpoty> genixpro: which we usually forward to upstream
[00:13] <genixpro> sistpoty, ok. If I wanted to make my own, external package that we could distribute on our own website, how would I go about it?
[00:13] <sistpoty> genixpro: though it looks like, that noone really took much care for glob2 yet (as we inherited it from debian, and obviously noone really took too much care: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glob2/+bugs)
[00:14] <sistpoty> genixpro: I guess, I'd start with the latest debian release (same as the one in ubuntu)
[00:14] <genixpro> Well, we do our own debian package and release it on our website, but our packager, who used to be the lead programmer and maintainer, is doing nothing
[00:15] <sistpoty> genixpro: that's sad to know
[00:15] <genixpro> Quite. I'm being paid to maintain the project by some rich guy whos in love with the game, so making packages is one of the tasks.
[00:16] <sistpoty> genixpro: I'd grab your debian packaging, and copy the debian directory to the new version, then "make -f debian/rules binary" and see if a package falls out
[00:17] <genixpro> sistpoty, we don't use make, we use scons, I recall the debian package scripts where modified for it to
[00:18] <sistpoty> genixpro: maybe... but for a debian package, the script to build it is always a makefile (debian/rules). This one may then in turn call scons to build the actual program
[00:18] <genixpro> sistpoty, I see.
[00:19] <genixpro> sistpoty, So your reccomending I get the latest version of debian, update and make our debian package, and release it as both Ubuntu and debian package?
[00:19] <genixpro> sistpoty, Should I make seperate ones for testing, stable, and unstable?
[00:19] <sistpoty> genixpro: no, it was just a hint to get you started with building a debian package, but I may have a better idea
[00:21] <sistpoty> genixpro: we have a team for Debian and Ubuntu to manage game packges, which is hosted as a debian team. Maybe you could write a mail to them? I'm quite sure, they'll try to get glob2 updated in debian then, so that we can easily sync it after hardy is released
[00:21] <sistpoty> genixpro: mail is: debian-devel-games@lists.debian.org
[00:23] <genixpro> sistpoty, ok, that sounds like a plan. I've been told by Fedora to do the same thing, file a bug report on the package glob2
[00:24] <sistpoty> genixpro: actually the team can help you with packaging as well, in case you want to do it yourself... at least to some degree, I guess.
[00:29] <genixpro> sistpoty, just sent them an email
[01:18] <LaserJock> is ubuntuwire down again?
[01:20] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: people.ubuntuwire.com is.
[01:20] <sistpoty> LaserJock: works for me
[01:20] <Fujitsu> But that has an outage message.
[01:20] <LaserJock> qa. is down for me
[01:20] <LaserJock> it says it'll be up by the 2nd ;-)
[01:21] <Fujitsu> Shh.
[01:21] <Fujitsu> qa shouldn't be.
[01:21] <Fujitsu> Ah, qa2 might be.
[01:21] <LaserJock> it kinda helps doing QA if, you know, we have the info ;-p
[01:22] <Fujitsu> Indeed. What do you need? I can grab most things from the backups and run them on stratos.
[01:24] <Fujitsu> rcbugs is already there.
[01:26] <LaserJock> where can I get at the rcbugs?
[01:26] <Fujitsu> qa.ubuntuwire.com
[01:26] <Fujitsu> There should be a link.
[01:26] <LaserJock> but umm, it's down
[01:26] <Fujitsu> Uh.
[01:26] <Fujitsu> You're right.
[01:28] <Fujitsu> There, better.
[01:28] <Fujitsu> I left the 2 out of qa2 for one TLD :(
[01:28] <Fujitsu> Oops.
[01:29] <LaserJock> ok, so we have Univeres rebuild results and rcbugs
[01:30] <LaserJock> can we get FTBFS?
[01:30] <Fujitsu> Sure, I'll set that up now.
[01:30] <LaserJock> do we even have current FTBFS data?
[01:31] <Fujitsu> We can get LP FTBFS data quickly, but I haven't run an archive rebuild in a while.
[01:31]  * slangasek perks up
[01:32]  * Fujitsu wonders why.
[01:33] <slangasek> Fujitsu: so if I were to ask infinity to do a universe archive rebuild, would the results be used?  AIUI, this used to be done but nobody was doing anything with the output so it wasn't warranted to continue committing the buildd resources
[01:33] <Fujitsu> slangasek: We fixed a lot of python-central FTBFSes with the last archive rebuild I did.
[01:33] <Fujitsu> We can do it in about 5 days assuming things go well.
[01:33] <Fujitsu> (not with Canonical buildds)
[01:35] <LaserJock> slangasek: I'm interested in getting that data used, however I don't know how successful I'll be
[01:36] <LaserJock> it can yell and scream 'till I'm blue in the face but if people don't respond not a whole lot will happen
[01:36] <Fujitsu> I thought you didn't have resources to do rebuilds of more than main/restricted.
[01:36] <LaserJock> s/it/I/
[01:36] <slangasek> Fujitsu: well, ok.  In theory using the DC boxes would also mean being able to get FTBFS info on some/all of the ports too, if that makes a difference
[01:37] <Fujitsu> Right, that's one thing we can't do.
[01:37] <slangasek> Fujitsu: well, we don't have the resources to spend on doing rebuilds of universe if the output isn't going to be used, certainly; but if it is, I can talk to infinity and see what's what
[01:39] <sistpoty> slangasek: that would be most excellent, so I also remember as Fujitsu wrote, that we were denied this in the past due to lack of resources
[01:39] <sistpoty> s/so/though/
[01:39] <LaserJock> sounds like the problem is "waste" rather than "lack" of resources
[01:41] <LaserJock> there are 3 things I'd love for us to really hit as much as we can before release:
[01:41] <LaserJock> 1) clear the u-u-s queue
[01:41] <LaserJock> 2) FTBFS
[01:41] <LaserJock> 3) rcbugs
[01:41] <LaserJock> that would be a big QA boost for us
[01:41] <slangasek> LaserJock: manpower is certainly a precious resource, even IS manpower... :)
[01:42] <LaserJock> oh yeah
[01:42] <sistpoty> well, /me would like to see bugs tagged with a good priority... however I already considered going through ~9000 bugs and then did s.th. else that weekend
[01:42] <LaserJock> sistpoty: yeah, my feeling is that we could really be doing better with Importance and milestoning
[01:43] <Fujitsu> There is of course the importance usage debate that makes importances useless.
[01:43] <Fujitsu> If importance is distro-wide, then everything in universe should be low. If not, we've been abusing it.
[01:43] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: which one is that?
[01:43] <sistpoty> LaserJock: yes, but I think its out of scope for motu-release alone... any clues how to acheive that?
[01:43] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: I would say that the teams responsible determine the importance
[01:43] <sistpoty> Fujitsu: for motu-release it should be universe/mulitverse wide
[01:43] <LaserJock> Importance is for the people doing the work
[01:44] <LaserJock> however, from the standpoint of slangasek et al. I'm concerned about our milestoning messing up his
[01:45] <Fujitsu> There's no way to filter milestone lists, is there?
[01:45] <LaserJock> that's why I've hesitated to use it so far
[01:45] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: not that I'm aware of
[01:45] <slangasek> LaserJock: setting importance is not a problem at all; nominating bugs for release is also fair game
[01:45] <slangasek> (and accepting them)
[01:45] <LaserJock> but there's no way to distinguish Universe from Main bugs in the milestones
[01:46] <LaserJock> so I'd rather not make the milestones useless for the core devs
[01:46] <slangasek> the goal is that milestoning of bugs will only be used for bugs that should be blockers for the milestone; that needn't be restricted to main, I'm happy to see milestoning used for bugs that are blockers for the community flavors as long as there's an actual committment to treating them as blockers in the corresponding project
[01:49] <slangasek> (the current milestone list is a total mess in this regard, meh)
[01:50] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: LP FTBFS is working on qa.uw.c now.
[01:50] <LaserJock> slangasek: ok, I agree with that
[01:52] <LaserJock> I just think MOTU in general need to get better at identifing targets and making sure they get done
[01:52] <LaserJock> we've had some really good successes lately IMO with transitions
[01:52] <jdong> LaserJock: WTF did oyu do that for??
[01:52] <jdong> LaserJock: now you're gonna jinx it!
[01:53] <jdong> :)
[01:53] <LaserJock> heh
[01:54] <LaserJock> hmm
[01:54] <LaserJock> so Main has 1 FTBFS and Universe has ~50 for i386
[01:55] <LaserJock> Multiverse has 22
[01:55] <LaserJock> that's interesting
[01:55]  * sistpoty looks innocent for atlas *whistle*
[01:55] <LaserJock> haha
[01:56] <Fujitsu> We really need to convince people to work on rcbugs.
[01:56] <LaserJock> yeah
[01:57] <LaserJock> I was just gonna say, the scariest one is rcbugs
[01:57] <sistpoty> Fujitsu, LaserJock: maybe a mail to -motu would help=
[01:57] <Fujitsu> It is very scary.
[01:57] <sistpoty> damn, s/=/?/ (again)
[01:57] <LaserJock> I was thinking of announce a RCbugs day
[01:57] <Fujitsu> Or three.
[01:57] <LaserJock> well, yeah
[01:57] <LaserJock> we only have a few days
[01:58] <LaserJock> if I could I'd stop all uploading for a week to focus on these topics
[01:58] <LaserJock> but well, that's not gonna happen
[01:58] <Fujitsu> One we're in FinalFreeze (FiF?), people have no choice but to fix bugs.
[01:58] <Fujitsu> Maybe people will look at it then.
[01:58] <LaserJock> true
[01:59] <LaserJock> but my hope was to get as many in before the freeze as possible
[01:59] <sistpoty> LaserJock: want to write a mail about rcbugs?
[01:59] <LaserJock> just to make the release teams life easier
[01:59] <LaserJock> sistpoty: will do
[01:59] <sistpoty> LaserJock: thanks, excellent!
[01:59] <LaserJock> I gotta run home
[01:59] <LaserJock> then I'll do it this evening
[01:59] <sistpoty> :)
[01:59] <LaserJock> bbiab
[02:10] <TheMuso> Whats the recent process Debian have introduced for maintaining individual packages called again?
[02:11] <Fujitsu> Debian Maintainers.
[02:11] <TheMuso> Right I thought so, but wasn't sure. Thanks.
[02:14] <sistpoty> oh, TheMuso: are you ok with dealing with ubuntu-studio bugs or do you prefer a delegate?
[02:14] <TheMuso> sistpoty: I practically upload everything ubuntustudio related, so I don't mind doing it.
[02:15] <sistpoty> TheMuso: excellent, thanks!
[02:15] <sistpoty> TheMuso: maybe you'd like to follow up to my mail?
[02:15] <TheMuso> sistpoty: I will do.
[02:15] <sistpoty> thanks!
[05:36] <AnAnt> man-di: ping
[05:47] <AnAnt> Hello, how much time does it take to approve creation of a mailing list ?
[05:47] <LaserJock> oh man
[05:47] <LaserJock> that varies a lot
[05:47] <LaserJock> I had one take 2 months, but I think that's kind of an extreme case
[05:48] <Fujitsu> From an eternity, up to three eternities.
[05:48] <AnAnt> LaserJock: well, I think my case is getting close to 2 months indeed
[05:49] <Fujitsu> I'm not sure what's so hard about running newlist, really.
[05:49] <LaserJock> hmm, things haven't changes so much I guess
[05:49] <LaserJock> I thought they had sped up the process
[05:49] <LaserJock> since my last one
[05:49] <Fujitsu> Ha. Hahaha. Hahahaha.
[05:50] <AnAnt> ok, regarding the packages usplash-theme-ubuntume & ubuntume-themes, both have bugs that are fixed
[05:50] <AnAnt> for the usplash, the boot text was overlapping the logo for 800x600  resolution
[05:51] <AnAnt> for the themes package, the cursor theme would make problems if compiz was running
[05:51] <AnAnt> does fixing those bugs qualify for a freeze exception ?
[05:51] <LaserJock> I think my mailing lists only showed up after I didn't want them anymore
[05:52] <LaserJock> and even then they weren't the names I requested, but oh well
[05:55] <AnAnt> um, what about the freeze exception question ?
[05:56] <LaserJock> what do you have to have an exception for?
[05:57] <LaserJock> I wouldn't think those would be considered features
[05:57] <AnAnt> LaserJock: 1. for the usplash-theme-ubuntume package, the boot text was overlapping the logo for 800x600  resolution
[05:57] <AnAnt> 2. for ubuntume-themes package, the cursor theme would make problems if compiz was running
[05:57] <LaserJock> AnAnt: no, I mean what about that would require an exception?
[05:58] <AnAnt> LaserJock: I mean, can I upload the packages after I fixed those bugs ?
[05:59] <AnAnt> LaserJock: or they can't be uploaded due to freeze ?
[05:59] <LaserJock> I would think so but I would ask whoever is in charge of ubuntume first
[05:59] <AnAnt> LaserJock: erm, I am the maintainer of those packages
[06:00] <LaserJock> oh, ok
[06:00] <LaserJock> I would think it would be fine
[06:01] <AnAnt> ok
[06:03] <AnAnt> thanks
[06:06] <LaserJock> I don't think people are going to mind too much for ubuntume packages
[06:06] <LaserJock> they're just metapackages and common distro stuff
[06:08] <Syntux> Good morning
[06:08] <LaserJock> hi Syntux
[06:08] <Syntux> hey LaserJock  :-)
[06:08] <LaserJock> still today for me
[06:08] <LaserJock> I haven't gone to bed yet
[06:08] <LaserJock> :-)
[06:08] <Syntux> LaserJock, different timezone or linking days ?
[06:09] <LaserJock> timezone
[06:09] <Syntux> I slept less than three hours, when we were talking yesterday it was around 1:00 AM.
[06:09] <LaserJock> I last talked to you at about 3pm my time I think
[06:09] <warp10> Good morning
[06:09] <Syntux> Good morning warp10
[06:09] <LaserJock> warp10!
[06:09] <LaserJock> warp10: did I say congrats yet?
[06:10] <warp10> Hey Syntux!
[06:10] <LaserJock> bad me if I didn't
[06:10] <warp10> LaserJock: np, you just did! :D Thank you! :)
[06:10] <Syntux> warp10, congrats but what for?
[06:10] <LaserJock> been busy with dissertation work
[06:11]  * Syntux being nosy 
[06:11] <warp10> Syntux: for being accepted as a MOTU
[06:11] <LaserJock> Syntux: warp10 is now a Master of the Universe :-)
[06:11] <LaserJock> he can leap tall buildings in a single bound
[06:11] <LaserJock> he's faster than a speeding bullet
[06:12] <Syntux> warp10, oh! you got your Motorola man! cool cool congrats
[06:12] <warp10> LaserJock: and can mess up the whole universe... and multiverse too :P
[06:12] <warp10> Syntux: thank you! :)
[06:13] <Syntux> :-)
[06:14] <LaserJock> warp10: I prefer to say that you can fix all science packages in Universe and Multiverse ;-)
[06:14] <Syntux> I'm learning too to get become a Jedi
[06:15] <warp10> LaserJock: Indeed.... well, mayavi2 works fine now! :)
[06:15] <LaserJock> warp10: excellent
[06:16] <LaserJock> warp10: dude, you have waaay too many LP emblems now
[06:17] <warp10> LaserJock: Heh... :D
[06:19] <LaserJock> and some wicked karma
[06:19] <LaserJock> my karma has always been pretty crappy
[06:20] <Syntux> Question: Do we need an access to different machines in case we are building a package for different arch?
[06:21] <LaserJock> good question
[06:21] <LaserJock> do you mean a package that only works on another arch?
[06:21] <LaserJock> or just testing if it works
[06:22] <Syntux> both
[06:22] <LaserJock> well, we don't really have machines available for people to just log into and build
[06:22] <LaserJock> what you can do is ask here if anybody can build a package for an arch you don't have
[06:23] <LaserJock> once it's actually uploaded to the Ubuntu repos it will be built on all archs available or the ones  you specify
[06:24] <Syntux> LaserJock, ah but you upload it in deb format, right?
[06:24] <LaserJock> no
[06:24] <LaserJock> we only upload source packages
[06:25] <LaserJock> uploading .debs is not allowed
[06:26] <Syntux> LaserJock, A developer uploads a source package and a MOTU is supposed to build it and upload it, right?
[06:26] <LaserJock> the MOTU only uploads the source package
[06:26] <Fujitsu> Developer == MOTU
[06:26] <LaserJock> well, that too
[06:26] <jdong> a developer *should* build the source package but not for the purpose of uploading the resultant .debs :)
[06:26] <LaserJock> exactly
[06:27] <LaserJock> we do test builds before uploading
[06:27] <LaserJock> but we don't actually upload the .debs
[06:27] <Syntux> oh
[06:27] <Syntux> ok, assuming we are done building and testing the .debs what next?
[06:28] <LaserJock> well, if you want your new package in Ubuntu you need to get 2 MOTUs to review and accept it
[06:28] <LaserJock> then it will be uploaded into the NEW queue
[06:28] <Syntux> that's one and what if it's already in the repos and we are building and testing debs of the newer version
[06:28] <LaserJock> and the Ubuntu archive admins will have a look and make sure it's ok
[06:28] <jdong> in general, find someone with upload rights to review your work and upload it into Ubuntu. In the case of a new package it must be approved by two developers.
[06:29] <LaserJock> yeah, if it's already in the repos then the MOTU will just upload it
[06:29] <Syntux> LaserJock, upload the source not the debs?
[06:29] <LaserJock> yep
[06:29] <Syntux> but then how do we get the debs?
[06:29] <LaserJock> oh,
[06:29] <LaserJock> well we have a build farm
[06:29] <LaserJock> Launchpad handles that
[06:29] <Syntux> with cows and milk?
[06:29] <Syntux> ah cool
[06:30] <LaserJock> so we upload, it takes the source packages and builds them on all archs, then puts them into the repos
[06:30] <LaserJock> Syntux: you can see them at https://launchpad.net/+builds
[06:31] <Syntux> so basically what we do on our machines is for testing purposes only and once we feel confident about the package we throw the source online and then same operation perfumed on the build farm
[06:32] <LaserJock> yep
[06:32] <LaserJock> this way the environment building the .debs is consistent
[06:32] <LaserJock> and can be changed if need-be
[06:32] <Syntux> and the process in the build farm, is it automated ? or humans having access to the farms to build the debs
[06:32] <LaserJock> no, it's automated
[06:33] <LaserJock> it would be a disaster to have them all built by hand :-)
[06:33] <Syntux> hmm interesting, but what if something went wrong up there in the farm?
[06:34] <LaserJock> ah, then we talk to the buildd admins
[06:34] <jdong> 1~0.98.2~0~jdong1~7.10prevu1 that is the prettiest and yet most horrifying version number I've concocted yet.
[06:34] <LaserJock> we call the builder machines buildds (build daemon)
[06:34]  * LaserJock hurls
[06:34]  * Fujitsu strangles jdong dead.
[06:34] <LaserJock> ;-)
[06:35] <jdong> most of that is not my fault ;-)
[06:35] <Fujitsu> ~0. Whhhy?
[06:35] <Syntux> interesting
[06:35] <jdong> Fujitsu: to make absolutely sure I'm less than any Ubuntu versions that slip in without me knowing
[06:35] <jdong> banshee upstream calls their newest releases 1-0.98.2
[06:35] <Fujitsu> Just ~ should do it, shouldn't it?
[06:35] <jdong> which is insane enough
[06:35] <Fujitsu> ~ is less than nothing.
[06:36] <jdong> Fujitsu: yeah
[06:36] <LaserJock> but if a ~0 is uploaded he wants to be lower than that?
[06:36] <jdong> I don't think there's a high chance of ~0ubuntu1 or ~0anything being uploaded
[06:36] <jdong> maybe in a PPA
[06:36] <LaserJock> PPAs might
[06:36] <Fujitsu> If a ~0 is ever uploaded, it deserves to be overwritten by anything else.
[06:37] <LaserJock> I think between PPAs, backports, -updates, and -security it's just plain not fun to think about versioning
[06:37] <Fujitsu> Backports are easy.
[06:37] <Fujitsu> PPAs don't matter.
[06:37] <Fujitsu> -updates and -security are a pain.
[06:37] <LaserJock> at least people want to be less than other people rather than higher than
[06:37] <LaserJock> PPAs matter if you're maintaining the PPA
[06:37] <LaserJock> :-)
[06:38] <jdong> or we can adopt some hackish pinning system of versioning :D
[06:38] <Fujitsu> !jdon
[06:38] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about jdon - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[06:38] <Fujitsu> !jdong
 jdong: yes, but you're FULL OF CRACK!
[06:38] <LaserJock> hehe
[06:38] <LaserJock> having good conventions might work too
[06:38] <jdong> LaserJock: haha the problem is getting $restofworld to follow them :D
[06:39] <jdong> *coughs and points at that glib2.0 merge*
[06:39] <LaserJock> we just don't care about $restofworld
[06:39] <jdong> LaserJock: the way we show we don't care is to give em a pin of 0 ;-)
[06:39] <Syntux> LaserJock, shall I signup for launchpad team and mailing list requesting a mentor or it's too early?
[06:39] <jdong> it's never too early to be addicted to Ubuntu!
[06:39] <LaserJock> isn't that the point of any standard, to force the crack of the few on $restofworld?
[06:40] <LaserJock> Syntux: it's not too early, although I honestly am not sure how active the mentoring program is
[06:40]  * jdong fully expects to break his system in his greedy quest for new mono apps
[06:40] <LaserJock> Syntux: you might want to to talk to norsetto when he's around. He's in charge of the mentoring program
[06:41] <LaserJock> jdong: but think of the kittens!!
[06:41] <Syntux> LaserJock, hmm well, actually I'm deadly interested in holding a packaging jam, the idea was posted by Daneil http://syntux.net/blog/2008/03/13/ubuntu-jordan-loco-floss-introduction-the-jordanian-way/
[06:41] <Syntux> ops, no here http://syntux.net/blog/2008/03/06/jordan-loco-ubuntu-desktop-course/
[06:42] <LaserJock> heh, that's kinda funny to see
[06:42] <LaserJock> I didn't know there was a Jordan LoCo
[06:42] <Syntux> Soon we might get a permanent lab in one of universities so a crash course about packaging would make a difference
[06:42] <LaserJock> I might have to blog about that ;-)
[06:43] <Syntux> LaserJock, haha
[06:43] <jdong> LaserJock: well you need to first twitter that you are blogging about it :)
[06:43] <LaserJock> jdong: I don't twitter
[06:43] <LaserJock> haven't figured out yet why I or other people would care about the minutia of my life
[06:44] <jdong> well I don't do this whole social networking thing either :)
[06:44] <jdong> I don't know why people would want to listen to me any more than they already do :D
[06:44] <Syntux> SN is a waste of time
[06:44] <Syntux> except Linkedin.
[06:44] <LaserJock> I do Facebook and LinkedIn because well, people send me invites
[06:44] <LaserJock> but I don't do anything on Facebook but collect invites
[06:44] <LaserJock> I'm not sure what I'm exactly supposed to do with it
[06:44] <Fujitsu> I'm boring and just do LinkedIn.
[06:45] <LaserJock> and I don't know how it's exactly social or networking
[06:45] <Syntux> coffee time. brb
[06:46] <jdong> *grumble* why does BSD always feel like I'm using UNIX from the 60's?
[06:46] <jdong> would it kill their reputation to bind the HOME key?
[06:46] <LaserJock> how would you even know you little punk
[06:46] <jdong> LaserJock: that's how I envisioned login worked back then.... username, password, "%"
[06:47] <jdong> and the console beep is the most lovely piercing tone!
[06:47] <LaserJock> I was talking about punch cards with my advisor today
[06:48] <LaserJock> it's amazing, he's only like 45
[06:48] <LaserJock> his first computer had 4k memory
[06:48] <LaserJock> stuff like that
[06:49] <LaserJock> we were cleaning out the lab to make way for a new laser and found an ancient memory board (almost 2x as big as an ATX motherboard)
[06:49] <jdong> cool
[06:50] <LaserJock> no wonder he likes Fortran
[06:50] <LaserJock> it must remind him of the punch cards
[06:52] <LaserJock> alright
[06:53] <LaserJock> time for this old geezer to get to bed
[06:53] <jdong> night!
[06:53] <Fujitsu> Night LaserJock.
[06:54] <warp10> goodnight LaserJock ;)
[06:56] <jdong> OOOOOH shiny mono 1.9 in Debian
[06:56]  * jdong now REALLY breaks his computer :)
[06:56] <Fujitsu> What's so wonderfully terrificly good about Mono?
[06:57] <jdong> Fujitsu: *shrug* I still have some fascination with the .NET/C# runtime and framework
[06:57] <jdong> I guess that carries over from my final few days on Windows
[06:57] <StevenK> That's unhealthy.
[06:58] <jdong> it's everything I'd want Java for but feels more natural and "done right"....
[06:59] <Fujitsu> WHy would you want Java?
[07:00] <jdong> as a higher level language than C/C++ with managed runtime type features and not as much a performance hit as python/ruby
[07:01] <Syntux> guys, can I build a package for hardy if I'm running gutsy or even dapper?
[07:01] <Syntux> on the same machine I mean.
[07:01] <jdong> Syntux: you sure can, pbuilder supports doing that
[07:01] <Syntux> cool
[07:10] <jdong> ./configure --build i486-linux-gnu --with-sigaltstack=yes
[07:10] <jdong> hmm
[07:10] <jdong> the typos do not instill confidence.
[07:11] <jdong> oh nvm that's supposed to say sigaltstack
[07:21] <Iulian> G'morning
[07:22] <macogw> hi there
[07:22] <macogw> is universe subject to translation strings deadlines like main, and if so, when are they?
[07:22] <macogw> i just installed rubrica and noticed that there are some strings in the en_US version which are still in Italian
[07:22] <Fujitsu> We don't have translations, so I doubt we're going to freeze for them.
[07:22] <macogw> oh ok
[07:23] <macogw> so um what would be the best thing to do about that then?
[07:23] <Fujitsu> Translate them to en_US, I presume.
[07:24] <macogw> but how do i get the translations in? go upstream and then request a sync?
[07:24] <Fujitsu> Probably a bit late for that now.
[07:25] <Fujitsu> You'll have to modify them in the source package, and submit a debdiff.
[07:25] <macogw> ok
[07:37] <macogw> hmm it looks like these strings are hard coded :-/ probably best to find a way to move them into a .po?
[11:45] <Hobbsee> oh, drat, i was supposed to read backscroll, and forgot
[15:38] <AnAnt> Hello, can someone review : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=usplash-theme-ubuntume  , it's a bugfix
[15:42] <man-di> AnAnt: you pinged me without content. Please add content to pings. How can I help?
[15:42] <AnAnt> man-di: oh, few days ago I was saying that the problem of gcc/g++ not being of same version on Debian is over
[15:42] <AnAnt> man-di: so any news about openjdk going to Debian ?
[15:43] <man-di> AnAnt: we are working on it in the ubuntu-java team. if you want to help please join.
[15:43] <AnAnt> man-di: how to join ?
[15:44] <AnAnt> man-di: ubuntu-java is doing it for Debian ?
[15:44] <man-di> checkout bzr and test, do fixes, etc
[15:44] <man-di> AnAnt: we are doing this for both distros
[15:44] <AnAnt> cool
[17:08] <mok0> h
[17:11] <d3vt4r> hello guys
[17:12] <d3vt4r> i wanted to ask how do i get my python application into a .deb or sumthin and into the ubuntu software repository?
[17:12] <d3vt4r> im really new to Ubuntu,hope you guys wldnt mind helping your fellow lad here
[17:14] <mok0> d3vt4r: lookie here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/
[17:19] <mok0> !packaging| d3vt4r
[17:19] <ubotu> d3vt4r: The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
[17:20] <d3vt4r> thanks guys
[17:20] <d3vt4r> i'll read up on it
[17:29] <pochu> ScottK, doko: are there any instructions on how to run a Python application under gdb in the wiki or somewhere, to point users to them when asking for a backtrace? If not, I could write something at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Backtrace after checking with bdmurray if that sounds good to you
[17:29] <d3vt4r> damn its daunting
[17:29] <d3vt4r> i have a simple python application
[17:30] <d3vt4r> i didn't realise i wld be bombarded by documentation
[17:30] <pochu> d3vt4r: check http://people.debian.org/~srivasta/manoj-policy/ too. I think that's more for modules though
[17:30] <pochu> d3vt4r: does it have a setup.py file?
[17:30] <d3vt4r> wld anyone care to help me out with this?
[17:31] <d3vt4r> not now, but im working on it
[17:31] <d3vt4r> wld it make a diff?
[17:32] <pochu> wld?
[17:33] <d3vt4r> would
[17:34] <pochu> i didn't understand your last question
[17:34] <d3vt4r> as to would it make a difference if i had a setup.py rather then a main.py?
[17:34] <d3vt4r> to get my application into the ubuntu software repository
[17:37] <d3vt4r> pochu?
[17:38] <pochu> where's the application so I can look at it?
[17:38] <pochu> the setup.py is used for packaging
[17:38] <pochu> but you don't strictly need it
[17:39] <pochu> specially if the application is very simple
[17:39] <pochu> is it just one file (main.py) ?
[17:40] <d3vt4r> http://d3vscan.sf.net
[17:41] <d3vt4r> nah,i have a few files but simple stuff
[17:41] <d3vt4r> thanks for taking your time looking at my app
[17:42] <pochu> d3vt4r: BTW, it won't make into Hardy. It will need to go into Intrepid
[17:42] <d3vt4r> i missed the february deadline ey?
[17:59] <mok0> !ibex | d3vt4r
[17:59] <ubotu> d3vt4r: Intrepid Ibex is the code name for Ubuntu 8.10, due October 2008 - For more info, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidIbex
[18:00] <keescook> so which is it, ibex or intrepid? I never say "drake", "gibbon", or "heron".  :P
[18:03] <mok0> keescook: ibex is shorter... so perhap's it's time to make a change :-)
[18:04] <mok0> keescook: some ppl around here are starting to call it "ibex"
[18:04] <keescook> mok0: yeah, I keep going back and forth.  :)
[18:05] <mok0> keescook: perhaps the rules has always _been_ to use the shorter name (?)
[18:05] <mok0> nah
[18:06] <mok0> len(feisty) > len (fawn)
[18:15] <d3vt4r> how do i start creating a ubuntu package for Interpid?
[18:16] <Nafallo> d3vt4r: as for any package, but with the changelog entry changed to i... whatever it's called.
[18:20] <mok0> In Debian, the release field seems always to be "unstable" no matter where the source package comes from.
[18:21] <Nafallo> mok0: not really.
[18:21] <mok0> No?
[18:22] <Nafallo> mok0: experimental and unstable. those are the only ones where people can upload.
[18:22] <mok0> Nafallo: ah, I never checked the experimental
[18:22] <Nafallo> mok0: same with Ubuntu if you think about it a bit. you can only upload to hardy at the moment without it being special circumstances.
[18:23] <Nafallo> special circumstances being *-security and *-updates
[18:23] <mok0> Nafallo: except that name changes every now and then
[18:23] <Nafallo> mok0: yea, but there is always only one main target.
[18:23] <mok0> Nafallo: In Debian, it's always "unstable"
[18:23] <Nafallo> mok0: that's because of symlinks :-P
[18:25] <mok0> Nafallo: Hmmm. Well I am not sure that the distribution logically belongs in the changelog.
[18:26] <mok0> Nafallo: The same release of a package may well compile on several distributions
[18:27] <Nafallo> mok0: if it gets uploaded to several distributions indeed.
[18:27] <mok0> Nafallo: It's something that is relevant at build time
[18:27] <mok0> Nafallo: so it ought to be defined there, e.g. with a switch
[18:28] <Nafallo> I might have lost you there :-)
[18:28] <mok0> Nafello, it belongs in the changes file, so whenever that is created
[18:29] <Nafallo> mok0: that is what happens now indeed :-)
[18:29] <mok0> Nafallo: because two identical versions of a package may be built against a different set of dependencies
[18:30] <mok0> Nafallo: yes, but the distribution string is extracted from debian/changelog
[18:30] <Nafallo> mok0: with distribution you mean release?
[18:30] <mok0> Nafallo: no, I mean "hardy" for example
[18:31] <Nafallo> mok0: yea, so release then :-)
[18:31] <mok0> Nafallo: so, if you want to back-port a hardy package to gutsy, you need (in principle) to create a new changelog entry with the word "gutsy" in the dist field
[18:32] <mok0> Nafallo: ah, ok, I was thinking release == -0ubuntu1
[18:32] <asac> Hobbsee: there? still archive powers? could you push the firefox extensions currently sitting in binary new? (e.g. firebug is one of them)
[18:32] <Nafallo> mok0: no. you ping jdong and he gets the gutsy-backports thing going :-)
[18:32] <mok0> Nafallo: hehe
[18:34] <mok0> asac: I think Hobbsee is in the australian time zone, so she is probably at sleep now :-)
[18:34] <asac> yeah ;)
[18:34] <Nafallo> tss.
[18:34] <asac> everyone else is in weekend
[18:34] <Nafallo> only 3:34
[18:34] <Nafallo> Hobbsee should be awake :-P
[18:34] <asac> thats what i thought ;)
[18:35] <Nafallo> asac: :-)
[19:10] <Laney> What do people think about bug 208579? Is there any chance of this getting in for Hardy?
[19:10] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 208579 in vlc "VLC not using PulseAudio by default" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/208579
[19:16] <sharperguy> How do I get a .desktop file to show up in a specific catagory in the gnome menu?
[19:17]  * jdong looks in total shock
[19:17] <jdong> mono 1.9 is actually working
[19:17] <geser> sharperguy: through the Category field in the file
[19:19] <sharperguy> geser, I did that, but its just appearing in other
[19:20] <Laney> sharperguy: Look at http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/1.0/apa.html for possible values
[19:20] <sharperguy> geser, The exact thing I put was "Catagoies=Application;Network;"
[19:21] <Nafallo> sharperguy: ehrm
[19:21] <sharperguy> umm wait forget it i cant spell
[19:21] <Laney> ...and you typoed Categories there
[19:21]  * Laney titters
[19:21] <Laney> So what about this VLC bug? Sound was completely broken until I installed that pulseaudio plugin.
[19:21] <sharperguy> Sigh, that fixed it
[19:22] <geser> sharperguy: check with desktop-file-validate (from desktop-file-utils) if your .desktop file is correct
[19:22]  * Nafallo smiles
[19:23] <sharperguy> Hmm, actually gedit told me by not highlighting it
[19:23] <sharperguy> but yeah thanks
[19:24]  * jdong gently nudges ScottK towards the firefox backport again
[19:24] <sharperguy> oh wait that looked worse than it was actually, because in the real .desktop file I didn't also miss out that "r" in categories
[19:27] <jdong> stupid apparmor
[20:04] <t0m> Good evening
[20:04] <t0m> I was wondering if anyone could help me resolve a packaging bug
[20:04] <t0m> I am trying to recompile some i386 packages for amd64
[20:04] <t0m> to start with I have just changed the architecture from i386 to amd64 (in a wait and see kind of way)
[20:05] <t0m> this successfully builds one of the packages with debuild
[20:05] <t0m> however, the second package builds binaries which link to a library provided by the first package
[20:05] <geser> t0m: it usually has a reason why a package is i386-only
[20:06] <t0m> geser: these are canon supplied drivers
[20:06] <t0m> geser: i think it just lack of support
[20:06] <t0m> anyway the first package provides the library, (in fact a link to it)
[20:06] <t0m> dpkg-shlibdeps: failure: no dependency information found for /usr/lib/libcaepcm.so.1 (used by debian/cndrvcups-capt/usr/bin/captdrv).
[20:06] <t0m> dh_shlibdeps: command returned error code 512
[20:06] <t0m> make: *** [binary-arch] Error 1
[20:06] <t0m> debuild: fatal error at line 1247:
[20:06] <t0m> fakeroot debian/rules binary failed
[20:06] <geser> t0m: do you have the complete source or are some parts provided as binary only?
[20:06] <t0m> and i get that
[20:07] <t0m> geser: complete source
[20:07] <geser> ah, that kind of error
[20:07] <geser> I've see other packages failed to build for a similar reason but did look yet how to fix it
[20:08] <t0m> geser: oh :(
[20:08] <t0m> i'm not completely familiar with deb from a builders point of view
[20:08] <t0m> i can see using apt-cache that the first package contains /usr/lib/libcaepcm.so.1
[20:08] <geser> I guess you need to tell dpkg-shlibdeps in which package the lib will end
[20:09] <geser> so it can add the correct dependency
[20:09] <t0m> i'm guessing it does it by searching through a database somewhere?
[20:09] <t0m> for all of the system packages
[20:11] <geser> yes, afaik it uses the *.shlib files in /var/lib/dpkg/info (inside the build) and optionally some local shlib files
[20:14] <t0m> geser: thanks for your help
[20:15] <t0m> geser: I will try and work something out
[20:54] <AnAnt> hello, can someone review this upload http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=usplash-theme-ubuntume ? It is a bugfix
[20:57] <ScottK2> AnAnt: The preferred form is a debdiff attached to the bug for a new revision of a diff.gz attached to the bug for a new upstream  version.
[20:57] <AnAnt> ScottK2: it's a native package
[20:57] <ScottK2> Ah.
[20:57] <ScottK2> Then a debdiff.
[20:58] <AnAnt> ScottK2: how's that ??
[20:58] <jdong> aren't themes typically high in binary content though?
[20:58] <ScottK2> AnAnt: I'll have a look at it though.
[20:58] <ScottK2> jdong: Good point.
[20:58] <jdong> ScottK2: can I bug you to look at the firefox beta 4 backport again?
[20:58] <ScottK2> The current theme is REVU is just for new packages, but native would be different.
[20:59] <ScottK2> jdong: Yes.
[20:59] <AnAnt> ScottK2: so how do I do a debdiff for a native package ?
[20:59] <jdong> ScottK2: thanks! As I mentioned on the bug report, new firefox uploads have gone into Hardy since yesterday and I am not ready for those, so we should stick with the b4 debdiffs/dscs that I posted before
[21:03] <AnAnt> ?
[21:04] <AnAnt> jdong: btw, I don't think this diff is high in binary content, I just modified a C file if I recall correctly
[21:05] <ScottK2> AnAnt: Same as you would for any other.
[21:05] <jdong> AnAnt: ah, ok, then a debdiff would work
[21:05] <ScottK2> AnAnt: debdiff usplash-theme-ubuntume_1.1.dsc usplash-theme-ubuntume_1.2.dsc > usplash.debdiff would have worked fine
[21:05] <foutrelis> hai :)
[21:05] <ScottK2> AnAnt: I'm looking at it now.
[21:05] <jdong> I was just concerned ScottK2 might be sending you on a wild goose chase as debdiffs cannot represent any binary changes ;-)
[21:05] <ScottK2> Yes.
[21:05] <ScottK2> In general a debdiff is probably best, but not if there's binary content.
[21:06] <AnAnt> hmmm, there is a another package that will have binary content diff
[21:06] <AnAnt> what shall I do about that ?
[21:08] <ScottK2> That one I think you have to upload to REVU.
[21:09] <ScottK2> AnAnt: Did you get your mailing list yet?
[21:09] <AnAnt> ScottK2: nope
[21:09] <ScottK2> OK.  I guess we'll leave the maintainer address then.
[21:10] <AnAnt> yup
[21:10] <AnAnt> ScottK2: we started moving to launchpad btw
[21:10] <ScottK2> OK.
[21:10] <AnAnt> ScottK2: I requested an SVN import but it is not attempted yet
[21:10] <AnAnt> 3 days ago !
[21:11] <ScottK2> I'm not terribly concerned about where you host your code.  The only reason I asked was because the current address you're using is not in accordance with policy (but I'm willing to live with it because I understand why).
[21:12] <AnAnt> ok
[21:14] <ScottK2> AnAnt: Uploaded.
[21:22] <jdong> what happens if a drive providing swap suddenly disappears?
[21:22] <jdong> I'm guessing very very bad things?
[21:23] <AnAnt> ScottK2: thanks
[21:23] <AnAnt> ScottK2: should uploads from today till April 10th only be bugfixes ?
[21:23] <AnAnt> ScottK2: or can the contain enhancements ?
[21:24] <jdong> bugfixes unless a freeze exception is granted
[21:24] <AnAnt> ScottK2: we are almost done with the a usplash theme
[21:24] <ScottK2> AnAnt: Bugfixes can be uploaded with no extra approvals.
[21:24] <AnAnt> ok
[21:24] <ScottK2> AnAnt: Enhances need a feature freeze exception.
[21:24] <ScottK2> For your usplash theme, I don't think it will be a problem to get one.
[21:28] <AnAnt> ScottK2: I think the process may take more than the remaining 5 days
[21:28] <ScottK2> AnAnt: How long?
[21:28] <AnAnt> ScottK2: I mean to get accepted & so
[21:29] <ScottK2> AnAnt: No.  Shouldn't be a huge problem.  When will it be ready?
[21:29] <AnAnt> ScottK2: probably end of day or tommorrow
[21:31] <ScottK2> Should be doable, but there are, of course, no guarantees.
[21:32] <jdong> aaahhhh, linking libxul.so makes my system cry
[21:35] <AnAnt> ScottK2: ok, thanks for the help
[21:38] <Raseel> Hi, I'm trying yo get involved with Ubuntu Bug packaging. I have just gone through a few tutorials on the Wiki.
[21:38] <Raseel> Accordingly, I have filed a Bug (212480) for a new package request.
[21:39] <Raseel> I have also uploaded the files after packaging the source manually.
[21:41] <Raseel> Here's the link to my Bug for Package request : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/212480/
[21:41] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 212480 in ubuntu "[needs packaging]Package request for Prozilla" [Undecided,New]
[21:42] <jdong> asac: xulrunner typo
[21:42] <jdong> asac: debian/rules: USE_SYSTEM_NSS := $(shell pkg-config --exists 'nspr >= 3.12'; a=$$?; if test $$a != 1; then echo 1; fi)
[21:42] <jdong> asac: nspr >= should be nss >=
[21:43] <ScottK2> Raseel: We are very close to our next release and not taking new packages right now.
[21:43] <Raseel> @ubotu: ???
[21:43] <ScottK2> Raseel: If you want to get involved in package, the best way to do it now is to work on packaging bug fixes.
[21:43] <ScottK2> Raseel: It's a bot.
[21:44] <Raseel> @ScottK2 : I know. I'm waiting for Hardy too. So, do I just wait until the new package requests for Intrepid  start ?
[21:45] <asac> jdong: right. thanks
[21:45] <jdong> asac: certainly :) Makes me feel better that I didn't make a merging mistake preparing these ff3b5 backport candidates :D
[21:47] <ScottK2> Raseel: Wait or try to help out and see if you can make Hardy better.
[21:48] <Raseel> ScottK2 : That's the plan. Triaging bugs is on top of my list. Can I help with code contribution directly ?  I'm guessing packaging existing requests will have  to take a back burnere too , huh ?
[21:48] <asac> jdong: fixed in bzr
[21:49] <jdong> asac: fantastic
[21:49] <asac> in .head branch though.
[21:49] <asac> i'll cherry-pick it to .dev as well
[21:51] <ScottK2> Raseel: If you know how to make debian packages, you can look for bugs with a patch and package that patch (make a debdiff and attach it to the bug).  Then you subsrcribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to the bug and they review it and upload it if it's good.
[21:52] <ScottK2> Raseel: You can use this for a list: http://daniel.holba.ch/really-fix-it/
[21:55] <asac> jdong: ok its on .dev branch ... prepare your backport from there then
[21:56] <Raseel> SCottK2 : I am just learning the process of packaging, that is to say, wanted someone to review my packaging.
[21:56] <Raseel> ScottK2 : What do you mean by "bugs with a patch"
[21:56] <ScottK2> See this list I gave you the link for.
[21:57] <ScottK2> Raseel: I understand.  We just don't have time right now.  If you can work on some of the smaller bugs, you efforts will get reviewed and you can learn that way.
[22:03] <Raseel> ScottK2:Fair enough.
[22:04] <ScottK2> New packages is probably the hardest way to learn because you have to touch pretty much all aspects of packaging.
[22:05] <Raseel> ScottK2 : I'm sorry for being such a bother, but would Bug No.32484 be a valid Bug for  "bugs with a patch" scenario. I could test the patch, fix if any errors and debdiff it
[22:06] <ScottK2> Raseel: Generally yes, but that patch is two years old and so is probably obsolete.  Also starting with disk partitioning in not a low risk area to learn.
[22:07] <ScottK2> That package is in Main, you'll want to start with Universe packages.
[22:21] <Raseel> ScottK2 : How about this one : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/geda-gnetlist/+bug/207760 ? Its Universe and a new one
[22:21] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 207760 in geda-gnetlist "Broken VHDL and Verilog netlisting backends" [Undecided,New]
[22:25] <ScottK2> Raseel: Yes.
[22:28] <Raseel> ScottK2: Great. Thanks for all your suggestions and guidance. Will start working on this.
[22:28] <emgent> heya
[23:27] <jdong> *cry* I swear asac has done something to mess with my brain.... firefox-3.0 -> firefox symlinks seem to just pop up like mushrooms
[23:27] <jdong> :D