awen_ScottK2: yeah... they look correctly00:00
ScottK2In general I think it's better to try and keep going and hope things improve.00:00
ScottK2Can you do some more testing and see what works, what doesn't work?00:00
awen_ScottK2: we loose cpu policy changes and brightness changes00:02
ScottK2I think it's worth keeping going then.00:03
ScottK2dbus doesn't just restart on general principles does it?00:03
awen_ScottK2: no, not what i know of ... it might restart on a dbus package upgrade, but i think thats it00:04
ScottK2Yeah.  I'd say it's progress then.00:05
awen_ScottK2: actually, neither of those problems are recoverable even after restarting the g-p-m ... seems that the dbus restart gives some problems regarding HAL priviledges00:05
awen_we're lucky that a dbus restart is a rare event :)00:05
ScottK2OK.  So we just do the best we can and try to keep going.00:06
daSkreechDoes anyone know if there is a jasper00:06
daSkreechaside from libjasper ?00:06
ugathe only jasper I know is that guy that had the nick, a kde devel iirc00:07
ScottK2daSkreech: http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?searchon=contents&keywords=jasper&mode=exactfilename&suite=hardy&arch=any00:08
ScottK2I think that's a no.00:08
daSkreechkopete uses a commandline executable now instead of the lib00:08
daSkreechlegal issues00:08
awen_ScottK2: http://awen.dk/packages/kde-guidance_0.8.0svn20080103-0ubuntu11.debdiff ... and just uploaded to my ppa if you want to test (~ppa3)00:13
daSkreechGuess I'll compile00:14
mhbI wonder...02:57
mhbwhat is the Kubuntu philosophy?02:57
mhbIf there was an application A much more popular than application B, but application A is not tied to KDE and application B is, are we going to ship B just because we have K as the first letter?02:58
mhbIn other words, more radical, is KDE more important to us than quality?02:59
mhbmy opinion is, stop being tied to KDE because there's no point in doing it - the developers of that particular piece of software have bashed us a lot - we're Yet Another Distribution to them and I can't see why they should be more than a Yet Another Software Maker to us03:01
mhbI guess I am going to be ignored in the end but that's what I wanted to say. mhb out.03:02
jjessemhb: not being ingored just saw the message03:32
jjessemhb: if we were following tha tphilosphy wouldn't we be shipping KOffice instaed of OpenOffice?03:34
nixternal_what is this other application mhb?04:05
nixternal_please don't say Firefox04:05
nixternal_and plus, I say we ship with K as our #1 concern no matter philosophy04:05
nixternal_so if A is better than B, and B is KDE and A isn't, we ship B, because A is in the repos and easily installable04:06
nixternal_we were discussing this today at the conference between the different distros04:06
nixternal_KDE, Gnome, Xfce, we all do it04:06
nixternal_jcastro: fyi, I talked to our Penguicon driver, and he has no problem driving your buddy with us...we are planning on leaving on Thursday though so we can be at Penguicon bright and early on Friday morning04:11
=== kitterma is now known as ScottK2
* Jucato is puzzled by the question/suggestion...05:29
=== neversfelde_ is now known as neversfelde
=== hunger_t is now known as hunger
fdoving hi.09:43
fdovinghi as in hello-hi.09:46
jords_heh... I'm having a problem with a ntfs usb drive and kde4 - I get the hal error: org.freedesktop.Hal.Device.Volume.UnknownFailure: TODO: have to rethink extra options when I click on it in Dolphin. If i mount it manually with ntfs-3g and then click on it it works great. :<09:47
fdovingdon't know much about that, i think i've seen the problem once, but i rarely use ntfs.09:48
jords_yeah... hal always seems to have problems with ntfs ;<09:48
mhbnixternal_: hmm10:11
mhbnixternal_: can't say I agree with you10:11
mhbshipping bad apps just because they're KDE...10:11
fdovingmhb: i agree with you on this. shipping bad apps just because they use the same toolkit most other apps we ship uses, is not good enough. then we're better of not shipping it at all.10:16
mhbfdoving: but I understand the other side, although their argument is more of a vicious circle. Take I dunno, some hypothetical file manager Foo and Dolphin. Even if Foo was better than Dolphin, it could never have the same features because of the KDE-only stuff that KDE uses, like KIO slaves.10:18
fdovingof course. but that must be considered when voting good vs. bad.10:18
fdovingif those kio-stuff makes it good, then it's good.10:18
mhbKDE introduces some KDE-only technology, which in the end forces us to support KDE apps, because indepedent ones cannot possibly have access to it10:18
mhbthat's why I think KIO slaves and all KDE-only technology is bad10:19
fdovingbut i mean, for example if kopete sucked, it would be better to not ship it than to expect users to -replace- it with something better.10:19
fdovingit's easier for users to think 'ok, i need to install some messenger app' than to think 'ok, theese braindead developers shipped a unusable messenger app, i need to get rid of that, then find something better, i'll just reinstall to $otherdistro'10:20
mhbheh :o)10:21
mhbspefically, Kopete's not the best IM app out there, but it's usable10:21
fdovingkopete was just an example. i find it completely usable.10:22
fdovingof course, it is pretty cruical to have a usable filemanager by default. (which i don't think dolphin-kde3 is)10:22
mhbstill, I'd still wish for Ubuntu to get enlightened and vote for a system-wide replacement for KIO10:23
mhbI mean - there are only pieces of KIO actually useful10:23
mhblike smb:/10:23
mhbmedia:/ is the best example on when the KDE-only and Ubuntu system-wide technology collides10:24
fdovingmedia:/ is gone in kde4.10:24
mhbhmm, is it?10:24
mhbnow all I wish for is a smb:/ replacement I can access not just from The Only True KDE apps but from everywhere, especially command line, where I often reside10:25
fdovingyou could mount smb:/ shares :)10:26
mhbthat I do10:27
mhbbut I wish for a way to browse them first, not just from KDE but from cmdline or, even better, from ANY file dialog10:27
fdovingsmbclient? :)10:28
mhbyes, that won't work from GTK file dialog, or from any other filedialog10:28
fdovingi get it, it would be nice.10:28
mhbwell, that sounds like a neat thing for the next development cycle...10:28
mhbthe more we ditch KDE-only technologies for system-wide, the happier I'll be10:29
fdovingthat would of course benefit veryone, if everybody would use it.10:37
fdovingthe problem is probably dependencies.10:37
fdovingkde-people usually want to use qt/kde when hacking, others don't. depending on the other ones toolkit won't be an option.10:38
CheGuevarahmm i need to play with php-qt...10:38
fdovingwriting everything on a lower level might be super-timeconsuming too.10:39
mhbyes, that's what makes code sharing terrible :o)10:39
mhbKDE code is all wrapped in QStrings and stuff10:39
fdovingyep, it's nice. :)10:39
mhbbut there's a ton of lost work too10:39
mhbthat's why we have 8 music player (4 GTK, 4 Qt), 8 IMs10:40
fdovingall with different qualities :)10:40
fdovingI want 8 music players.10:41
fdovingI also want different desktop environments.10:41
fdovingif everything were focused on one project in every category i could just go use something else.10:41
mhbI want a good one.10:42
mhbone that doesn't start several seconds just to show desktop and a panel10:42
fdovingpick the one that is closes to what you want, fetch the sourcecode and start vim :)10:42
mhbheh, I wish it was that easy :o)10:44
fdovingit is :)10:44
fdovingyou just need alot of sparetime.10:45
mhbI'm still campaigning for a Modular Desktop Environment, where you can install a different window manager or desktop engine and it wouldn't harm integration10:52
mhbbut I guess it won't win10:52
mhbbecause it's neither Republican/GNOME nor Democratic/KDE10:52
mhband all big distributions ship either this or that10:53
Nightrosegood morning everyone :)11:37
Nightrosesomeone in the mood to give Amarok 1.4.9 a test before we put it into hardy?11:37
NightroseHarald has got packages in his ppa that need good testing11:37
Aikurni can test11:37
Nightroseawesome Aikurn11:38
Nightrosethank you11:38
Nightroseplease tell me if everything works for you11:38
Aikurnno prob11:38
Nightroseespecially cover fetching from amazon11:38
Nightrosesince that is broken in 1.4.8 now11:38
Aikurni know, i'll report asap :)11:39
Nightrosethanks - no need for asap though :P11:39
CheGuevaraare teare there amarok 2 packages for hardy anywhere?11:42
CheGuevarameh *are there11:43
Nightrosethere will be nightly builds as soon as harald finishes them11:43
Aikurncover fetching works11:43
AikurnNightrose: is there something in particular I should test?11:45
CheGuevaraamarok2 - 1.80-0ubuntu1~hardy1~ppa111:45
CheGuevaraoh there we g11:45
Nightroseif you have got a mobile device like an ipod you could check if it gets detected11:46
Nightrosethere were some problems with that11:46
Nightroseie: amarok forgot them after closing amarok11:46
NightroseCheGuevara: that is probably the techpreview - which is quite outdated now11:46
Aikurni've got an iriver player, i'll try that11:47
CheGuevaraNightrose, yeah it is, i'll try if it even works lol11:47
Nightrosehehe ok11:47
CheGuevaraare there any new beta releases planned soon?11:48
Nightrosethough no fixed date yet11:48
CheGuevaraoh ok11:49
* awen_ had some problems with mp3 players and the current amarok ... i'll test immidiately11:49
Nightroseawen_: thank you11:49
CheGuevaraawww the don't report bugs in red writing is quiet annoying lol11:49
Nightroseawen_: also please test cover fetching and the usual stuff you do with amarok just to make sure there are no major problems11:50
NightroseCheGuevara: :P11:50
awen_Nightrose: of course :)11:50
NightroseCheGuevara: well we really did not want bug reports for that11:50
Nightroseand since people don't read....11:50
CheGuevarainternet stream playing works, all i wanted really11:51
CheGuevarasince juk is useless in that field...11:51
AikurnAmarok crashed on me yesterday, I'm gonna try to reproduce that11:51
Aikurnnice, it doesn't crash11:53
Nightrosewhen did it crash for you?11:53
Nightrosewhat were you doing?11:53
Aikurni was editting the tag of a song with a very long name, i pressed the musicbrainz button and the entire desktop crashed11:54
awen_Nightrose: is it intended that the cover fetching window should jump around the desktop everytime you press "next cover"?11:56
Nightrosehmmm let me have a look at that as soon as I ate something11:57
awen_okay... but apart from that, cover fetching works :)12:01
Nightrose(afk for a while)12:02
awen_Nightrose: but it still crashes when plugging in my mp3 player :( ... I reported it earlier as bug 21041812:02
ubotuLaunchpad bug 210418 in amarok "[hardy] amarok crashes when mp3 player controlled by amarok is plugged in and automounted" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/21041812:02
NightroseI will have a look12:02
IppatsuManNightrose: cover fetching works fine for me. Amarok seems to remember my mp3 player if I add it using the "autodetect" feature, but it forgets my player if I add manually by using "Add device".12:02
NightroseIppatsuMan: ok thank you12:03
IppatsuManOn restart if I try to add it again using the same name and mount point it complains: "Sorry, you cannot define two devices with the same name and mount point"12:04
Nightroseyea known problem12:04
NightroseI just thought that was fixed :(12:04
NightroseI will ask Harald to look into it when he gets back12:04
Nightrosebut he is busy right now12:05
LureRiddell: is there plan to kenetworkmanager 0.2.2 in hardy? anybody working on it?12:45
RiddellLure: nobody working on it, if you want to please do12:45
LureRiddell: I will try12:45
* Lure is a bit rusty after being away of kubuntu hacking for long12:45
freeflyingRiddell: can i upload new package to hardy now? :)12:46
Riddellfreeflying: needs approval from universe review team12:47
freeflyingRiddell: thanks12:47
HobbseeLure: so's everyone, i think :)12:57
Nightrosenarf - did anyone else test the amarok package while my connection was gone?13:13
Aikurndoesn't look like it13:15
Nightrosethx ;-)13:15
* Nightrose grummls at her ISP13:15
AikurnNightrose: is there a bug with the lyrics "edit" button?13:16
Aikurnit stays pressed13:16
Nightrosehmmm let me check in 1.4.8 here before I upgrade myself13:16
Nightrosepress it again ;-)13:17
Nightrosethen it should go away13:17
Aikurnit doesn't :(13:17
Nightrosehmm ok13:17
Nightrosewill check in 1.4.9 then in a sec13:17
Nightrosehmm worksforme13:22
Aikurnmust be a config issue then13:22
Nightrosecan someone else test this please?13:22
etretyakNightrose: I could.. but what should I test? :)13:23
Nightroseetretyak: in amarok 1.4.9 from ppa13:23
etretyakalready installed13:24
Nightroseplease test the edit button in the lyrics tab13:24
Nightrosedoes it stay pressed when you press it a second time?13:24
Nightroseetretyak: no problems in 1.4.9 for you so far?13:25
AikurnNightrose: forget it, it works fine with a different user13:26
etretyakNightrose: Lyrics tab is always disabled for me..13:26
NightroseAikurn: ok13:26
Nightroseetretyak: do you have a lyrics scrikt running=13:27
etretyakoh.. Fetching lyrics13:28
etretyakSo, I pressed Edit and entered "edit mode"13:29
etretyakThen I pressed Edit button again, and entered "view mode"13:29
Nightrosethat is the way it is supposed to be13:30
Nightrosethe button doesn't stay pressed for you?13:30
etretyakyes, it doesn't13:30
Nightroseawen_: covers don't jump around for me13:31
Nightrosedo they for anyone else when fetching covers from amazon?13:31
awen_when the fetch cover dialog is open and i press "next cover" it makes a jump ... it doesn't do that for you?13:32
NightroseI will try again with another album - just have to find one without a cover13:33
Aikurnit doesn't jump for me13:33
Nightrosenope it always stays in the upper right corner for me13:34
Nightroseeh at the bottom13:35
awen_Nightrose: it seems to happen if you have lot of windows open (eg. a lot of "edges" visible) and covers you are browsing through are having different sizes, so the cover window changes it's size13:35
Nightrosehmm yea that might happen13:35
awen_for me it starts in the lower left right now, but that differs13:35
Nightrosethough that probably also happens in 1.4.8 then13:35
awen_Nightrose: very likely :)13:35
NightroseI will put it on my list for Harald though13:36
Nightrosegood.. now we just need some more testers for the media devices13:36
Nightrosecurrent consensus seems to be that auto detedted devices now work again13:37
Nightrosebut manually added ones are borked on next startup13:37
Nightrosecan anyone confirm/deny this?13:37
* Nightrose gets her mp3 player to test as well13:37
* awen_ can't test ... can only make amarok crash with my media device13:38
Nightrosehehe yea ok13:38
awen_but seems it is a corner case :)13:38
* Nightrose puts that on the list for harald as well13:38
LureRiddell: what is the point having KUBUNTU-DEBIAN-CHANGES file in package if delta to debian is in changelog anyhow?13:43
ScottK2awen_: I think your brightness fix may have worked for me.  First time I tried it after the upgrade I had the problem, but since then I can't reproduce it.14:04
ScottK2awen_: Thanks for the fixes.14:04
awen_ScottK2: sounds goood :) ... allways good to hear that the fixes works, when they are made "blindly"14:06
ScottK2I did see a comment on the Gamm bug that it was still present.14:07
ScottK2That's the real problem with fixing Guidance is unless you have the problematic hardware, it's almost all fixing in the blind.14:07
LureScottK2, awen_: btw, big thanks for taking care of guidance for hardy - I am really impressed what have you done in past uploads!14:09
ScottK2Lure: Thanks.14:10
awen_Lure: thank you :D14:11
awen_ScottK2: yeah, exactly ... i'll see if i can find out what i missed with the gamma fix14:14
apacheloggerjpatrick: the luks patch is causing a never ending load of issues in amarok14:25
apacheloggerjpatrick: does it need to change kded's stuff?14:25
apacheloggercause that is really the only thing that effects amarok14:25
LureRiddell: is it ok for knetworkmanager to depend on knetworkconf so that it works also in kde4 session (see bug 211717)?14:30
ubotuLaunchpad bug 211717 in kubuntu-kde4-meta "knetworkmanager - manual configuration doesn't load (kde4)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/21171714:30
LureRiddell: I think that it is not possible to just launch kde4 knetworkconf, or am I wrong?14:31
* ryanakca considers packaging Kile for hardy+1 ... its only in the extragear SVN, but it's still incredibly useful :)14:56
awen_ryanakca: great :)15:03
* awen_ uses kile a lot ... it's in universe now15:03
ryanakcaawen_: but, how would you go by packaging it? There isn't a .tar.gz? *googles for packaging from SVN*15:04
ryanakcaoh, it is?, the kde4 or kde3 version? *looks*15:04
awen_ryanakca: the kde3 version is15:04
ryanakcaoh, I'll get kile-kde4 in then :)15:04
awen_ryanakca: then i could actually consider switching to kde4 ;)15:05
* ryanakca just wishes that kile would have a dark (white on black in the text editor) theme... 15:06
awen_ryanakca: make a feature request upstream; you never know if it happens ... or start hacking yourself =)15:09
ryanakcalol, it'll probably be quicker if I hack it together myself :)15:10
nareshovcan kmail/knode be packaged yet?15:49
nareshovakregator too15:49
Luredoes anybody here use VPN in network-manager?16:05
=== Nightrose2 is now known as Nightrose
* ryanakca scratches his head and wonders how he /parted the channel while his screen was detached16:33
Lureknetworkmanager 0.2.2 (merged with debian) available for testing in my ppa: https://launchpad.net/~lure/+archive16:42
LureRiddell: ^^^ it works for me (tm), but would be good to get more feedback if we want this in hardy16:43
* Lure is suprised how quickly the build is done in ppa these days...16:43
Hobbseeit's gotten better, yes16:44
=== smarter_ is now known as smarter
* ryanakca wonders if there's a KDE4 package manager other than KPackage18:51
smarterryanakca: Adept 3 alpha?18:54
ryanakcasmarter: or that, thanks :)18:55
smarteryast has been ported to Qt4 iirc18:55
paranhello. I have run into a bug with amsn+KDE4 on hardy. The bug is fixed in amsn svn, I have made a new source package which includes the small svn-patch in debian/patches.19:38
paranI will create a LP bug and attach the debdiff, do I need to do anything else after that?19:39
Riddellparan: give us the bug number19:39
paranRiddell: ok, will do. I haven't submitted it yet, just planning ahead :)19:45
paranRiddell: #21297319:51
holycowhi guys20:08
holycowwhat happened to the kde4 wallpapers?20:08
holycowthe last dist upgrade replaced the beautifull kde4 wallpapers with fugly kde3 ones20:09
holycowis this a bug or a feature?20:09
Nightroseholycow: they moved to another package20:09
Nightrosekdebas-workspace-wallpapers IIRC20:09
holycowthank you vey much20:13
Nightroseyou're welcome20:13
jjesseafternoon from o'hare airport :)20:27
Nightrosehey jjesse20:27
jjessehello Nightrose20:29
jjesseslow day today?20:36
Nightrosejep - updating wordpress and textpattern right now - I hate updating those two...20:37
Jucatooooh you use textpattern?20:37
jjessesounds fun...20:37
NightroseJucato: jep for my busines site and for a customer20:38
Nightroseworks well for small sites but updating...20:38
Jucatoyou're probably the first person I've met that used it (well, Sho suggested it but he doesn't use it afaik)20:39
Nightrosehehe really?20:39
NightroseI was looking for some small cms because the big ones would have been overkill and textpattern looked good20:40
RiddellLure: knetworkmanager works here20:42
LureRiddell: great - it is your call if you want to upload it or want some more testers20:55
CheGuevaraLure: were you the after of the kde 3 ntfs mounting patch?20:56
LureCheGuevara: no20:56
CheGuevarasorry, I remember talking to someone about it, but can't remember who it is20:56
* Lure was not after much in kubuntu in last two months or so ;-)20:56
CheGuevara'cause its b0rked in KDE 4 and would be really nicely to fix it before release20:57
smarterknm from Lure's PPA works like a charm here :)21:07
Luresmarter: thanks for testing21:08
Lureany vpn user to test knetworkmanager?21:08
CheGuevaraonly wifi here21:15
ugaguys, anybody knows what's going on with the kde3 kios in hardy?21:41
ugathey don't browse anymore, and the networking is properly working since my own kde4 svn build works like charm21:41
ugaI tried chaning the default browser to kde4's konqueror, but then konvi fries each time I click on an url21:41
ugasomething strange is going on21:41

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