[00:00] <awen_> ScottK2: yeah... they look correctly
[00:00] <ScottK2> In general I think it's better to try and keep going and hope things improve.
[00:00] <ScottK2> Can you do some more testing and see what works, what doesn't work?
[00:02] <awen_> ScottK2: we loose cpu policy changes and brightness changes
[00:03] <ScottK2> I think it's worth keeping going then.
[00:03] <ScottK2> dbus doesn't just restart on general principles does it?
[00:04] <awen_> ScottK2: no, not what i know of ... it might restart on a dbus package upgrade, but i think thats it
[00:05] <ScottK2> Yeah.  I'd say it's progress then.
[00:05] <awen_> ScottK2: actually, neither of those problems are recoverable even after restarting the g-p-m ... seems that the dbus restart gives some problems regarding HAL priviledges
[00:05] <awen_> we're lucky that a dbus restart is a rare event :)
[00:06] <ScottK2> OK.  So we just do the best we can and try to keep going.
[00:06] <daSkreech> Does anyone know if there is a jasper
[00:06] <daSkreech> aside from libjasper ?
[00:07] <uga> the only jasper I know is that guy that had the nick, a kde devel iirc
[00:08] <ScottK2> daSkreech: http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?searchon=contents&keywords=jasper&mode=exactfilename&suite=hardy&arch=any
[00:08] <ScottK2> I think that's a no.
[00:08] <daSkreech> hmm
[00:08] <daSkreech> kopete uses a commandline executable now instead of the lib
[00:08] <daSkreech> legal issues
[00:13] <awen_> ScottK2: http://awen.dk/packages/kde-guidance_0.8.0svn20080103-0ubuntu11.debdiff ... and just uploaded to my ppa if you want to test (~ppa3)
[00:14] <daSkreech> Guess I'll compile
[01:29] <arcteskiii> xp
[02:57] <mhb> I wonder...
[02:57] <mhb> what is the Kubuntu philosophy?
[02:58] <mhb> If there was an application A much more popular than application B, but application A is not tied to KDE and application B is, are we going to ship B just because we have K as the first letter?
[02:59] <mhb> In other words, more radical, is KDE more important to us than quality?
[03:01] <mhb> my opinion is, stop being tied to KDE because there's no point in doing it - the developers of that particular piece of software have bashed us a lot - we're Yet Another Distribution to them and I can't see why they should be more than a Yet Another Software Maker to us
[03:02] <mhb> I guess I am going to be ignored in the end but that's what I wanted to say. mhb out.
[03:32] <jjesse> mhb: not being ingored just saw the message
[03:34] <jjesse> mhb: if we were following tha tphilosphy wouldn't we be shipping KOffice instaed of OpenOffice?
[04:05] <nixternal_> what is this other application mhb?
[04:05] <nixternal_> please don't say Firefox
[04:05] <nixternal_> and plus, I say we ship with K as our #1 concern no matter philosophy
[04:06] <nixternal_> so if A is better than B, and B is KDE and A isn't, we ship B, because A is in the repos and easily installable
[04:06] <nixternal_> we were discussing this today at the conference between the different distros
[04:06] <nixternal_> KDE, Gnome, Xfce, we all do it
[04:11] <nixternal_> jcastro: fyi, I talked to our Penguicon driver, and he has no problem driving your buddy with us...we are planning on leaving on Thursday though so we can be at Penguicon bright and early on Friday morning
[05:29]  * Jucato is puzzled by the question/suggestion...
[09:00] <Serega> heya
[09:43] <fdoving>  hi.
[09:45] <jords_> hi?
[09:46] <fdoving> hi as in hello-hi.
[09:47] <jords_> heh... I'm having a problem with a ntfs usb drive and kde4 - I get the hal error: org.freedesktop.Hal.Device.Volume.UnknownFailure: TODO: have to rethink extra options when I click on it in Dolphin. If i mount it manually with ntfs-3g and then click on it it works great. :<
[09:48] <fdoving> don't know much about that, i think i've seen the problem once, but i rarely use ntfs.
[09:48] <jords_> yeah... hal always seems to have problems with ntfs ;<
[10:11] <mhb> nixternal_: hmm
[10:11] <mhb> nixternal_: can't say I agree with you
[10:11] <mhb> shipping bad apps just because they're KDE...
[10:16] <fdoving> mhb: i agree with you on this. shipping bad apps just because they use the same toolkit most other apps we ship uses, is not good enough. then we're better of not shipping it at all.
[10:18] <mhb> fdoving: but I understand the other side, although their argument is more of a vicious circle. Take I dunno, some hypothetical file manager Foo and Dolphin. Even if Foo was better than Dolphin, it could never have the same features because of the KDE-only stuff that KDE uses, like KIO slaves.
[10:18] <fdoving> of course. but that must be considered when voting good vs. bad.
[10:18] <fdoving> if those kio-stuff makes it good, then it's good.
[10:18] <mhb> KDE introduces some KDE-only technology, which in the end forces us to support KDE apps, because indepedent ones cannot possibly have access to it
[10:19] <mhb> that's why I think KIO slaves and all KDE-only technology is bad
[10:19] <fdoving> but i mean, for example if kopete sucked, it would be better to not ship it than to expect users to -replace- it with something better.
[10:20] <fdoving> it's easier for users to think 'ok, i need to install some messenger app' than to think 'ok, theese braindead developers shipped a unusable messenger app, i need to get rid of that, then find something better, i'll just reinstall to $otherdistro'
[10:21] <mhb> heh :o)
[10:21] <mhb> spefically, Kopete's not the best IM app out there, but it's usable
[10:21] <mhb> specifically
[10:22] <fdoving> kopete was just an example. i find it completely usable.
[10:22] <mhb> right
[10:22] <fdoving> of course, it is pretty cruical to have a usable filemanager by default. (which i don't think dolphin-kde3 is)
[10:23] <mhb> still, I'd still wish for Ubuntu to get enlightened and vote for a system-wide replacement for KIO
[10:23] <mhb> I mean - there are only pieces of KIO actually useful
[10:23] <mhb> like smb:/
[10:24] <mhb> media:/ is the best example on when the KDE-only and Ubuntu system-wide technology collides
[10:24] <fdoving> yep.
[10:24] <fdoving> media:/ is gone in kde4.
[10:24] <mhb> hmm, is it?
[10:24] <mhb> good
[10:25] <mhb> now all I wish for is a smb:/ replacement I can access not just from The Only True KDE apps but from everywhere, especially command line, where I often reside
[10:26] <fdoving> you could mount smb:/ shares :)
[10:27] <mhb> that I do
[10:27] <mhb> but I wish for a way to browse them first, not just from KDE but from cmdline or, even better, from ANY file dialog
[10:28] <fdoving> smbclient? :)
[10:28] <mhb> yes, that won't work from GTK file dialog, or from any other filedialog
[10:28] <fdoving> i get it, it would be nice.
[10:28] <mhb> hmm
[10:28] <mhb> well, that sounds like a neat thing for the next development cycle...
[10:29] <mhb> the more we ditch KDE-only technologies for system-wide, the happier I'll be
[10:37] <fdoving> that would of course benefit veryone, if everybody would use it.
[10:37] <fdoving> the problem is probably dependencies.
[10:38] <fdoving> kde-people usually want to use qt/kde when hacking, others don't. depending on the other ones toolkit won't be an option.
[10:38] <CheGuevara> hmm i need to play with php-qt...
[10:39] <fdoving> writing everything on a lower level might be super-timeconsuming too.
[10:39] <mhb> yes, that's what makes code sharing terrible :o)
[10:39] <mhb> KDE code is all wrapped in QStrings and stuff
[10:39] <fdoving> yep, it's nice. :)
[10:39] <mhb> but there's a ton of lost work too
[10:40] <mhb> that's why we have 8 music player (4 GTK, 4 Qt), 8 IMs
[10:40] <mhb> ..
[10:40] <fdoving> all with different qualities :)
[10:41] <fdoving> I want 8 music players.
[10:41] <fdoving> I also want different desktop environments.
[10:41] <fdoving> if everything were focused on one project in every category i could just go use something else.
[10:42] <mhb> I want a good one.
[10:42] <mhb> one that doesn't start several seconds just to show desktop and a panel
[10:42] <fdoving> pick the one that is closes to what you want, fetch the sourcecode and start vim :)
[10:44] <mhb> heh, I wish it was that easy :o)
[10:44] <fdoving> it is :)
[10:45] <fdoving> you just need alot of sparetime.
[10:46] <mhb> indeed
[10:52] <mhb> I'm still campaigning for a Modular Desktop Environment, where you can install a different window manager or desktop engine and it wouldn't harm integration
[10:52] <mhb> but I guess it won't win
[10:52] <mhb> because it's neither Republican/GNOME nor Democratic/KDE
[10:53] <mhb> and all big distributions ship either this or that
[10:58] <fdoving> yep.
[11:25] <fdoving> bbl.
[11:37] <Nightrose> good morning everyone :)
[11:37] <Nightrose> someone in the mood to give Amarok 1.4.9 a test before we put it into hardy?
[11:37] <Nightrose> Harald has got packages in his ppa that need good testing
[11:37] <Aikurn> i can test
[11:38] <Nightrose> https://edge.launchpad.net/~apachelogger
[11:38] <Nightrose> awesome Aikurn
[11:38] <Nightrose> thank you
[11:38] <Nightrose> please tell me if everything works for you
[11:38] <Aikurn> no prob
[11:38] <Aikurn> ok
[11:38] <Nightrose> especially cover fetching from amazon
[11:38] <Nightrose> since that is broken in 1.4.8 now
[11:39] <Aikurn> i know, i'll report asap :)
[11:39] <Nightrose> ;-)
[11:39] <Nightrose> thanks - no need for asap though :P
[11:42] <CheGuevara> are teare there amarok 2 packages for hardy anywhere?
[11:43] <CheGuevara> *there
[11:43] <CheGuevara> meh *are there
[11:43] <Nightrose> there will be nightly builds as soon as harald finishes them
[11:43] <Aikurn> cover fetching works
[11:45] <Aikurn> Nightrose: is there something in particular I should test?
[11:45] <Nightrose> hmmm
[11:45] <CheGuevara> amarok2 - 1.80-0ubuntu1~hardy1~ppa1
[11:45] <CheGuevara> oh there we g
[11:46] <CheGuevara> *go
[11:46] <Nightrose> if you have got a mobile device like an ipod you could check if it gets detected
[11:46] <Nightrose> there were some problems with that
[11:46] <Nightrose> ie: amarok forgot them after closing amarok
[11:46] <Nightrose> CheGuevara: that is probably the techpreview - which is quite outdated now
[11:47] <Aikurn> i've got an iriver player, i'll try that
[11:47] <Nightrose> perfect
[11:47] <CheGuevara> Nightrose, yeah it is, i'll try if it even works lol
[11:47] <Nightrose> hehe ok
[11:48] <CheGuevara> are there any new beta releases planned soon?
[11:48] <Nightrose> yes
[11:48] <Nightrose> though no fixed date yet
[11:49] <CheGuevara> oh ok
[11:49]  * awen_ had some problems with mp3 players and the current amarok ... i'll test immidiately
[11:49] <Nightrose> awen_: thank you
[11:49] <CheGuevara> awww the don't report bugs in red writing is quiet annoying lol
[11:50] <Nightrose> awen_: also please test cover fetching and the usual stuff you do with amarok just to make sure there are no major problems
[11:50] <Nightrose> CheGuevara: :P
[11:50] <awen_> Nightrose: of course :)
[11:50] <Nightrose> CheGuevara: well we really did not want bug reports for that
[11:50] <Nightrose> and since people don't read....
[11:50] <CheGuevara> yeah
[11:51] <CheGuevara> internet stream playing works, all i wanted really
[11:51] <CheGuevara> since juk is useless in that field...
[11:51] <Aikurn> Amarok crashed on me yesterday, I'm gonna try to reproduce that
[11:53] <Aikurn> nice, it doesn't crash
[11:53] <Nightrose> perfect
[11:53] <Nightrose> when did it crash for you?
[11:53] <Nightrose> what were you doing?
[11:54] <Aikurn> i was editting the tag of a song with a very long name, i pressed the musicbrainz button and the entire desktop crashed
[11:55] <Nightrose> oO
[11:55] <Aikurn> yeah
[11:56] <awen_> Nightrose: is it intended that the cover fetching window should jump around the desktop everytime you press "next cover"?
[11:57] <Nightrose> hmmm let me have a look at that as soon as I ate something
[12:01] <awen_> okay... but apart from that, cover fetching works :)
[12:01] <Nightrose> \o/
[12:02] <Nightrose> (afk for a while)
[12:02] <awen_> Nightrose: but it still crashes when plugging in my mp3 player :( ... I reported it earlier as bug 210418
[12:02] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 210418 in amarok "[hardy] amarok crashes when mp3 player controlled by amarok is plugged in and automounted" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210418
[12:02] <Nightrose> meh
[12:02] <Nightrose> I will have a look
[12:02] <IppatsuMan> Nightrose: cover fetching works fine for me. Amarok seems to remember my mp3 player if I add it using the "autodetect" feature, but it forgets my player if I add manually by using "Add device".
[12:03] <Nightrose> IppatsuMan: ok thank you
[12:04] <IppatsuMan> On restart if I try to add it again using the same name and mount point it complains: "Sorry, you cannot define two devices with the same name and mount point"
[12:04] <Nightrose> yea known problem
[12:04] <Nightrose> I just thought that was fixed :(
[12:04] <Nightrose> I will ask Harald to look into it when he gets back
[12:05] <Nightrose> but he is busy right now
[12:45] <Lure> Riddell: is there plan to kenetworkmanager 0.2.2 in hardy? anybody working on it?
[12:45] <Riddell> Lure: nobody working on it, if you want to please do
[12:45] <Lure> Riddell: I will try
[12:45]  * Lure is a bit rusty after being away of kubuntu hacking for long
[12:46] <freeflying> Riddell: can i upload new package to hardy now? :)
[12:47] <Riddell> freeflying: needs approval from universe review team
[12:47] <freeflying> Riddell: thanks
[12:57] <Hobbsee> Lure: so's everyone, i think :)
[13:13] <Nightrose> narf - did anyone else test the amarok package while my connection was gone?
[13:15] <Aikurn> doesn't look like it
[13:15] <Nightrose> thx ;-)
[13:15]  * Nightrose grummls at her ISP
[13:16] <Aikurn> Nightrose: is there a bug with the lyrics "edit" button?
[13:16] <Aikurn> it stays pressed
[13:16] <Nightrose> hmmm let me check in 1.4.8 here before I upgrade myself
[13:17] <Aikurn> ok
[13:17] <Nightrose> press it again ;-)
[13:17] <Nightrose> then it should go away
[13:17] <Aikurn> it doesn't :(
[13:17] <Nightrose> hmm ok
[13:17] <Nightrose> will check in 1.4.9 then in a sec
[13:18] <Aikurn> ok
[13:22] <Nightrose> hmm worksforme
[13:22] <Aikurn> must be a config issue then
[13:22] <Nightrose> can someone else test this please?
[13:23] <etretyak> Nightrose: I could.. but what should I test? :)
[13:23] <Nightrose> etretyak: in amarok 1.4.9 from ppa
[13:24] <etretyak> already installed
[13:24] <Nightrose> please test the edit button in the lyrics tab
[13:24] <Nightrose> does it stay pressed when you press it a second time?
[13:25] <Nightrose> etretyak: no problems in 1.4.9 for you so far?
[13:26] <Aikurn> Nightrose: forget it, it works fine with a different user
[13:26] <etretyak> Nightrose: Lyrics tab is always disabled for me..
[13:26] <Nightrose> Aikurn: ok
[13:27] <Nightrose> etretyak: do you have a lyrics scrikt running=
[13:27] <Nightrose> bah
[13:27] <Nightrose> typos---
[13:28] <etretyak> oh.. Fetching lyrics
[13:29] <etretyak> So, I pressed Edit and entered "edit mode"
[13:29] <etretyak> Then I pressed Edit button again, and entered "view mode"
[13:30] <Nightrose> right
[13:30] <Nightrose> that is the way it is supposed to be
[13:30] <Nightrose> the button doesn't stay pressed for you?
[13:30] <etretyak> yes, it doesn't
[13:30] <Nightrose> perfect
[13:30] <Nightrose> thanks
[13:31] <etretyak> yw!
[13:31] <Nightrose> awen_: covers don't jump around for me
[13:31] <Nightrose> do they for anyone else when fetching covers from amazon?
[13:32] <awen_> when the fetch cover dialog is open and i press "next cover" it makes a jump ... it doesn't do that for you?
[13:32] <Nightrose> nope
[13:33] <Nightrose> I will try again with another album - just have to find one without a cover
[13:33] <Aikurn> it doesn't jump for me
[13:34] <Nightrose> nope it always stays in the upper right corner for me
[13:35] <Nightrose> eh at the bottom
[13:35] <awen_> Nightrose: it seems to happen if you have lot of windows open (eg. a lot of "edges" visible) and covers you are browsing through are having different sizes, so the cover window changes it's size
[13:35] <Nightrose> hmm yea that might happen
[13:35] <awen_> for me it starts in the lower left right now, but that differs
[13:35] <Nightrose> though that probably also happens in 1.4.8 then
[13:35] <awen_> Nightrose: very likely :)
[13:35] <Nightrose> ;-)
[13:35] <Nightrose> ok
[13:36] <Nightrose> I will put it on my list for Harald though
[13:36] <Nightrose> good.. now we just need some more testers for the media devices
[13:37] <Nightrose> current consensus seems to be that auto detedted devices now work again
[13:37] <Nightrose> but manually added ones are borked on next startup
[13:37] <Nightrose> can anyone confirm/deny this?
[13:37]  * Nightrose gets her mp3 player to test as well
[13:38]  * awen_ can't test ... can only make amarok crash with my media device
[13:38] <Nightrose> hehe yea ok
[13:38] <awen_> but seems it is a corner case :)
[13:38]  * Nightrose puts that on the list for harald as well
[13:43] <Lure> Riddell: what is the point having KUBUNTU-DEBIAN-CHANGES file in package if delta to debian is in changelog anyhow?
[14:04] <ScottK2> awen_: I think your brightness fix may have worked for me.  First time I tried it after the upgrade I had the problem, but since then I can't reproduce it.
[14:04] <ScottK2> awen_: Thanks for the fixes.
[14:06] <awen_> ScottK2: sounds goood :) ... allways good to hear that the fixes works, when they are made "blindly"
[14:07] <ScottK2> Yes.
[14:07] <ScottK2> I did see a comment on the Gamm bug that it was still present.
[14:07] <ScottK2> That's the real problem with fixing Guidance is unless you have the problematic hardware, it's almost all fixing in the blind.
[14:09] <Lure> ScottK2, awen_: btw, big thanks for taking care of guidance for hardy - I am really impressed what have you done in past uploads!
[14:10] <ScottK2> Lure: Thanks.
[14:11] <awen_> Lure: thank you :D
[14:14] <awen_> ScottK2: yeah, exactly ... i'll see if i can find out what i missed with the gamma fix
[14:25] <apachelogger> jpatrick: the luks patch is causing a never ending load of issues in amarok
[14:25] <apachelogger> jpatrick: does it need to change kded's stuff?
[14:25] <apachelogger> cause that is really the only thing that effects amarok
[14:30] <Lure> Riddell: is it ok for knetworkmanager to depend on knetworkconf so that it works also in kde4 session (see bug 211717)?
[14:30] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 211717 in kubuntu-kde4-meta "knetworkmanager - manual configuration doesn't load (kde4)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/211717
[14:31] <Lure> Riddell: I think that it is not possible to just launch kde4 knetworkconf, or am I wrong?
[14:56]  * ryanakca considers packaging Kile for hardy+1 ... its only in the extragear SVN, but it's still incredibly useful :)
[15:03] <awen_> ryanakca: great :)
[15:03]  * awen_ uses kile a lot ... it's in universe now
[15:04] <ryanakca> awen_: but, how would you go by packaging it? There isn't a .tar.gz? *googles for packaging from SVN*
[15:04] <ryanakca> oh, it is?, the kde4 or kde3 version? *looks*
[15:04] <awen_> ryanakca: the kde3 version is
[15:04] <ryanakca> oh, I'll get kile-kde4 in then :)
[15:05] <awen_> ryanakca: then i could actually consider switching to kde4 ;)
[15:05] <ryanakca> :)
[15:06]  * ryanakca just wishes that kile would have a dark (white on black in the text editor) theme... 
[15:09] <awen_> ryanakca: make a feature request upstream; you never know if it happens ... or start hacking yourself =)
[15:10] <ryanakca> lol, it'll probably be quicker if I hack it together myself :)
[15:49] <nareshov> can kmail/knode be packaged yet?
[15:49] <nareshov> akregator too
[16:05] <Lure> does anybody here use VPN in network-manager?
[16:33]  * ryanakca scratches his head and wonders how he /parted the channel while his screen was detached
[16:42] <Lure> knetworkmanager 0.2.2 (merged with debian) available for testing in my ppa: https://launchpad.net/~lure/+archive
[16:43] <Lure> Riddell: ^^^ it works for me (tm), but would be good to get more feedback if we want this in hardy
[16:43]  * Lure is suprised how quickly the build is done in ppa these days...
[16:44] <Hobbsee> it's gotten better, yes
[18:51]  * ryanakca wonders if there's a KDE4 package manager other than KPackage
[18:54] <smarter> ryanakca: Adept 3 alpha?
[18:55] <ryanakca> smarter: or that, thanks :)
[18:55] <smarter> yast has been ported to Qt4 iirc
[19:38] <paran> hello. I have run into a bug with amsn+KDE4 on hardy. The bug is fixed in amsn svn, I have made a new source package which includes the small svn-patch in debian/patches.
[19:39] <paran> I will create a LP bug and attach the debdiff, do I need to do anything else after that?
[19:39] <Riddell> paran: give us the bug number
[19:45] <paran> Riddell: ok, will do. I haven't submitted it yet, just planning ahead :)
[19:51] <paran> Riddell: #212973
[20:08] <holycow> hi guys
[20:08] <holycow> what happened to the kde4 wallpapers?
[20:09] <holycow> the last dist upgrade replaced the beautifull kde4 wallpapers with fugly kde3 ones
[20:09] <holycow> is this a bug or a feature?
[20:09] <Nightrose> holycow: they moved to another package
[20:09] <Nightrose> kdebas-workspace-wallpapers IIRC
[20:10] <Nightrose> *kdebase
[20:11] <holycow> aha!
[20:13] <holycow> thank you vey much
[20:13] <Nightrose> you're welcome
[20:27] <jjesse> afternoon from o'hare airport :)
[20:27] <Nightrose> hey jjesse
[20:29] <jjesse> hello Nightrose
[20:36] <jjesse> slow day today?
[20:37] <Nightrose> jep - updating wordpress and textpattern right now - I hate updating those two...
[20:37] <Jucato> oooh you use textpattern?
[20:37] <jjesse> sounds fun...
[20:38] <Nightrose> Jucato: jep for my busines site and for a customer
[20:38] <Jucato> ooh
[20:38] <Nightrose> works well for small sites but updating...
[20:39] <Jucato> you're probably the first person I've met that used it (well, Sho suggested it but he doesn't use it afaik)
[20:39] <Nightrose> hehe really?
[20:40] <Nightrose> I was looking for some small cms because the big ones would have been overkill and textpattern looked good
[20:42] <Riddell> Lure: knetworkmanager works here
[20:55] <Lure> Riddell: great - it is your call if you want to upload it or want some more testers
[20:56] <CheGuevara> Lure: were you the after of the kde 3 ntfs mounting patch?
[20:56] <Lure> CheGuevara: no
[20:56] <CheGuevara> sorry, I remember talking to someone about it, but can't remember who it is
[20:56]  * Lure was not after much in kubuntu in last two months or so ;-)
[20:57] <CheGuevara> 'cause its b0rked in KDE 4 and would be really nicely to fix it before release
[21:07] <smarter> knm from Lure's PPA works like a charm here :)
[21:08] <Lure> smarter: thanks for testing
[21:08] <Lure> any vpn user to test knetworkmanager?
[21:15] <CheGuevara> only wifi here
[21:41] <uga> guys, anybody knows what's going on with the kde3 kios in hardy?
[21:41] <uga> they don't browse anymore, and the networking is properly working since my own kde4 svn build works like charm
[21:41] <uga> I tried chaning the default browser to kde4's konqueror, but then konvi fries each time I click on an url
[21:41] <uga> something strange is going on