[00:11] <YokoZar> Sweet, Hardy is sufficiently faster than Gutsy that I can now watch some HD videos in realtime without massive frame dropping.
[00:19] <bluefoxicy> shouldn't autoclean interval be 1 instead of 0?
[00:19] <bluefoxicy> apt seems to be piling up old versions of packages (like 30 versions of the same nvidia driver etc) until it fills up my hard disk :|
[00:47] <jdong> YokoZar: that's probably because of recent improvements in ffmpeg's decoding performance
[00:49] <YokoZar> jdong: Cool.  Either way end users will be happy to know that they can now watch higher resolution...movies...
[00:55] <jdong> indeed
[01:13] <lamont> dear firefox3.  why do you render my nagios map as white on white?
[01:15]  * lamont upgrades to see if firefox changes
[01:20] <vlowther> Bug #212660, suspect mjg59's three headed monkey spotted in wild in 2.6.24-1[45].  System goes through all the motions of suspending/resuming, but the kernel spews debugging information into dmesg instead of actually suspending.  If anyoune could point me to a handy guide on how to interpret this outputm that would be much appreciated.
[01:20] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 212660 in linux "kernel 2.6.24-15 fails suspending" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/212660
[01:21] <vlowther> Interestingly enough (and the log shows this), suspend/resume works normally once.
[01:21] <vlowther> -12 kernel functions as expected.
[01:22] <PurpleBlu> Is there a convert pdf text documunt to odf or something?
[01:27] <jdong> PurpleBlu: this isn't the right channel to ask support questions
[01:28] <PurpleBlu> jdong, I thought I was in my local ubuntu-chicago channel.  sorry
[02:50] <stuporglue> Does anyone else use the "USA International (with dead keys)" layout? The dead keys aren't working for me in Hardy, though they worked in Gutsy
[02:54] <stuporglue> The new key layout does't show any way to get an a or o with a tilde on it...which makes it difficult to type Portuguese correctly
[05:12] <slytherin> pitti: Can you please take a look at bug 212801. f-spot has depwait on powerpc due to this.
[05:12] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 212801 in gnome-desktop-sharp2 "Please promote to main on powerpc" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/212801
[05:14] <slytherin> TheMuso: Hobbsee told me to contact you. I am trying to solve OOo FTBFS on powerpc, but unable do test my solution since I don't have much disk space on my machine. She said you have access to some powerpc machine.
[05:14] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: i know you used the ubuntuwire ppc for a while - any idea if that's still up?
[05:17] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: No idea.
[05:18] <TheMuso> slytherin: I am actuallyw orking with calc on this one as we speak. Got a test build going on my PPC.
[05:18] <slytherin> TheMuso: ok. What changes did you do?
[05:18] <TheMuso> slytherin: I've been instructed to disable ppc java support building at this time, build likely won't be done for several hours yet.
[05:19] <TheMuso> slytherin: calc also told me that I should b elooking at approx 10GB used for the build.
[05:21] <slytherin> TheMuso: But it is already disabled right? I say some code in rules file that disables java support if arch is powerpc. I was in fact going to suggest to remove the code i.e. re-enable java support. I will also take a look at Debian's diff.gz to see how it differs in this respect.
[05:21] <TheMuso> slytherin: Sorry thats what I meant.
[05:22] <slytherin> TheMuso: thanks for looking into it. :-) See you later.
[05:22] <fabbione> cr3: !
[05:23] <cr3> fabbione: dude! how's it going?
[05:23] <cr3> fabbione: since you happen to be in #ubuntu-devel, will I have the pleasure of your spankings at uds?
[05:24] <fabbione> cr3: pretty good thanks...
[05:24] <fabbione> cr3: nope.. i haven't been invited
[05:25] <cr3> fabbione: that sucks. I'm sure you could double my productivity just by the fear of your presence :)
[05:25] <fabbione> cr3: ahahha
[05:25] <fabbione> cr3: just think that i am always behind you
[05:25] <fabbione> cr3: if not me, my spirit will be there :)
[05:25] <cr3> fabbione: would it be too much to ask for a poster or a cardboard cutout of you?
[05:25] <ion_> I can sell one of mine.
[05:26] <fabbione> cr3: perhaps me frozen in graffite like Ian Solo?
[05:26] <ion_> I have a livingroom full of cardboard cutouts of fabbione.
[05:26]  * cr3 fabbione if I had a cardboard cutout of you, I'd really keep it next to my desk, no matter what canonical might think :)
[05:26] <cr3> hm, that didn't come out quite right :(
[05:28] <fabbione> ahahah
[05:28] <cr3> fabbione: nah, Ian Solo had a kinda desperate look. I'd go for the "angry and will make my cry like a little girl" look.
[05:33] <cr3> getting late for me, cheerio folks
[05:33] <fabbione> night cr3
[05:33] <fabbione> take care dude
[05:33] <fabbione> and don't dream too much about me
[05:34] <fabbione> it's not healty
[05:34] <fabbione> oh gone...
[05:34] <fabbione> well
[06:58] <warp10> Good morning
[07:15] <xtknight> how does "add/remove programs" populate its list?
[07:15] <LaserJock> from a package
[07:16] <LaserJock> app-install-data I believe
[07:16] <xtknight> i see it now.  is there any reason why vinagre would have two entries in menu-data?  I'm not even sure what vinagre.desktop vs vinagre-file.desktop are for
[07:16] <xtknight> bug 213207
[07:16] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 213207 in vinagre "Vinagre appears in Add/remove applications twice as "remote desktop viewer"" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/213207
[07:17] <LaserJock> oh, interesting
[07:17] <xtknight> but it's also twice in app-install-data-ubuntu
[07:17] <LaserJock> yeah
[07:17] <xtknight> automatically generated or something
[07:17] <LaserJock> that data comes from flags in the .desktop files
[07:17] <xtknight> so i guess i can just remove the -file one from menu-data
[07:18] <LaserJock> well, I think you fix the .desktop in vinagre
[07:18] <LaserJock> the app-install-data packages are autogenerated
[07:18] <xtknight> ah
[07:18] <xtknight> vinagre-file is the base of some sort of shell extension i assume, like right clicking or open with?
[07:19] <LaserJock> xtknight: pastebin the 2 .desktops
[07:20] <xtknight>  /usr/share/applications/vinagre.desktop: http://rafb.net/p/eGJVPW93.html  ; /usr/share/applications/vinagre-file.desktop: http://rafb.net/p/YC1fCl94.html
[07:20] <xtknight> some nasty unicode there
[07:21] <xtknight> (the file's fine locally)
[07:22] <xtknight> NoDisplay=true on the second one.  maybe Add/Remove should not populate when NoDisplay=true
[07:22] <xtknight> or the autogenerator
[07:24] <LaserJock> xtknight: I'd maybe add a task on app-install-data-ubuntu to that bug report
[07:25] <xtknight> ok
[07:30] <xtknight> LaserJock, for example, xfprint4 has the same problem.  only, the two entries are named differently and refer to the same binary package.
[07:31] <xtknight> and removing them works fine, they just treat each other like dependencies, X each other out
[07:32] <LaserJock> yeah
[07:32] <LaserJock> I suspect there may be a few of those
[07:32] <xtknight> http://rafb.net/p/WPAfvU75.html
[07:33] <xtknight> a whole list of possibilities.  pavumeter also happens
[07:33] <LaserJock> where is that from?
[07:33] <LaserJock> which directory?
[07:33] <xtknight> i just did "grep -i NoDisplay=True *" in menu-data under the app-install package
[07:33] <LaserJock> k
[07:33] <LaserJock> well NoDisplay=True isn't a great criteria
[07:34] <LaserJock> what you're looking for is packages that produce more than 1 .desktop file
[07:58] <superm1> xtknight, i ran into this some time back on the myth packages too
[07:59] <superm1> xtknight, you want to put X-AppInstall-Package=PACKAGE in the desktop files
[07:59] <superm1> er well wait that's a different problem i ran into as well
[07:59] <xtknight> ok i made a silly little script to determine which pkgs have >1 .desktop file.  here are the results for my system, the pkgs i have installed, for what it's worth:
[07:59] <xtknight> http://rafb.net/p/alPgv347.html
[07:59] <superm1> xtknight, i think i actually had mvo add it a list to restrict it
[08:00] <xtknight> hmm
[08:00] <superm1> and then added that X-AppInstall-Package key to the remaining desktop file to make sure the right one got installed
[08:01] <kagou> Good morning
[08:03] <xtknight> superm1, ok so looks like i should just remove X-AppInstall from the auxiliary vinagre-file desktop file?
[08:03] <xtknight> that won't cause any regressions or side effects?
[08:03] <kagou> pitti, told me that language packs are generated twice in a week, but now they are 15 days old. Is there a special place to take them ?
[08:03] <superm1> xtknight, please check with mvo
[08:03] <superm1> xtknight, he'll know for sure
[08:03] <xtknight> mvo? ah ok
[08:04] <xtknight> is that his nickname on here
[08:04] <superm1> yeah
[08:04] <xtknight> thx
[08:14] <dholbach> good morning
[08:14] <LaserJock> dholbach!
[08:15] <dholbach> hey LaserJock
[08:15] <mdke> morning dholbach
[08:15] <dholbach> hey mdke
[08:15] <seb128> hey dholbach mdke
[08:15] <mdke> morning Seb
[08:21] <Ng> is gnome-volume-manager necessary for things like autoplaying a DVD? Those options have moved to nautilus and I see this morning's upload of g-v-m disables the scanner command
[08:22] <seb128> hey Ng
[08:22] <Ng> that's the only one currently enabled in mine anyway, so I'm wondering if I can get away with removing it from my session
[08:22] <StevenK> I thought hal just told gvfs that a DVD has appeared
[08:22] <Ng> hey seb128 :)
[08:22] <seb128> Ng: can you do printing tests today?
[08:23] <seb128> Ng: upstream fixes the glyph positionning issue on the pdf example attached to the bug, I would like to know if that makes the printer work correctly too
[08:23] <Ng> seb128: sure. we've had xerox confirm that the PS crashes their lab machines, so they're going to work on a fix for some future firmware.
[08:23] <xtknight> pdf bug 150187?
[08:23] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 150187 in poppler "[gutsy] [regression] Evince has very bad quality when printing pdf files." [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/150187
[08:24] <seb128> xtknight: no
[08:24] <Silicium> hi there
[08:24] <Silicium> so, i cant get help in the public channel so i try it here, iam sorry, i know is a developer channel. so
[08:25] <xtknight> Silicium, what's your question?
[08:25] <seb128> Silicium: try #ubuntu
[08:25] <Ng> but obviously it would be nice not to be generating invalid ps :)
[08:25] <Silicium> how i can add more than one repositorys into a preseed file?
[08:25] <Silicium> seb128: no chance, this guys does not know what preseed is oO
[08:26] <seb128> Ng: the ps generated is valid as far as I can say and upstream had no validity issue with it neither, it's displayed correctly on screen out of the glyph positionning bug
[08:26] <Ng> ah
[08:26] <Ng> ok
[08:27] <Silicium> can i add this regulary or must create a script to do this after base install?
[08:29] <xtknight> Silicium, #debian might have a better idea but make sure it's not ubuntu-specific
[08:29] <xtknight> sounds like debian-installer stuff to me so..
[08:29] <Silicium> yea thanks
[08:30] <seb128> Silicium: you can try #ubuntu-installer too if that's an installer question
[08:31] <Silicium> ok tx
[09:14] <kagou> lu seb128
[09:15] <seb128> lut kagou
[09:17] <crevette> salut
[09:17] <seb128> lut crevette
[09:17] <crevette> salut seb128
[09:19] <\sh> hmm...should /etc/init.d/ssh restart fail when a user is still logined via sshd or should it restart with kicking out the sshd sessions?
[09:19] <\sh> right now, it just failes because port 22 is still available
[09:21] <\sh> I mean, it could restart the main sshd process..without interfering with the sshd which is started for the user
[09:21] <slytherin> Hobbsee: looks like pitti is too busy to take notice of bug 212801. Do you know anyone else who has the power to do it?
[09:21] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 212801 in gnome-desktop-sharp2 "Please promote to main on powerpc" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/212801
[09:21] <Fujitsu> \sh: It does neither. It restarts the listening process only.
[09:21] <Fujitsu> \sh: That's what it does.
[09:21] <Fujitsu> slytherin: ubuntu-archive \ {Hobbsee}
[09:21] <\sh> Fujitsu, hmm...
[09:21] <\sh> Apr  7 10:15:09 home-emt64 sshd[13757]: Received signal 15; terminating.
[09:21] <\sh> Apr  7 10:15:09 home-emt64 sshd[13775]: Server listening on :: port 22.
[09:21] <\sh> Apr  7 10:15:09 home-emt64 sshd[13775]: error: Bind to port 22 on 0.0.0.0 failed: Address already in use.
[09:22] <\sh> so what is the error message then?
[09:22] <Fujitsu> \sh: Hum. That would happen if the socket was closed improperly, or if another process is actually listening on it.
[09:22] <crevette> \sh, netstat -taupen |grep 22 helps
[09:22] <slytherin> Fujitsu: I didn't understand.
[09:23] <Fujitsu> slytherin: Bah, that was normalish set notation.
[09:23] <sjoerd> \sh: That error is perfectly normal and can be ignored
[09:23] <Fujitsu> Any member of ubuntu-archive, except Hobbsee.
[09:23] <slytherin> Fujitsu: are you the member?
[09:23] <sjoerd> \sh: under linux if you listen on :: then you listen on the same ipv4 port too by default, causing the error meesage
[09:24] <Fujitsu> slytherin: I don't appear to be a Canonical employee, so not as far as I know.
[09:24] <slytherin> Fujitsu: or do you know anyone else who is online right now?
[09:24] <\sh> sjoerd, evil...
[09:24] <sjoerd> \sh: not really
[09:25] <\sh> sjoerd, well...when I read the error message, it can give me the view, that the restart didn't work properly somehow..but that's just me
[09:25] <sjoerd> right, the error message is indeed a bit misleading
[09:25] <\sh> another thing, why I actually restarted sshd, is vi /etc/login.defs and change hushlogin file from .hushlogin to /etc/hushlogins...and the described behaviour doesn't work somehow..while touch ~/.hushlogin  works as expected
[09:26] <raphink> and it doesn't work in etch either actually
[09:27] <raphink> it seems to have been broken for quite some time
[09:27] <seb128> sjoerd: hey, your gnome-keyring dbus restart patch is crashing, I sent the bug to the bts
[09:28] <sjoerd> #?
[09:28] <raphink> there's hardly any info on hushlogin on google, apart from what's written in /etc/login.defs
[09:28] <seb128> sjoerd: ok, you  don't read the pkg-gnome bugs, I was not sure ;-)
[09:28] <seb128> sjoerd: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=474418
[09:28] <ubotu> Debian bug 474418 in gnome-keyring "gnome-keyring-daemon crashed with SIGSEGV in dbus_connection_remove_filter()" [Normal,Open]
[09:28] <sjoerd> seb128: ah, you send it to the dbts :)
[09:28] <sjoerd> seb128: i though you meant the upstream one :)
[09:29] <seb128> sjoerd: no, I didn't know it had been sent upstream, that was still a debian change before today ;-)
[09:29] <sjoerd> i do read the pkg-gnome bugs, but i tend to lag
[09:30] <\sh> raphink, check apt-get source shadow , where /bin/login is created...
[09:30] <\sh> raphink, looks like a bug inside the source
[09:30] <raphink> yes, looks like login actually doesn't consider the HUSHLOGIN_FILE parameter
[09:30] <raphink> but uses .hushlogin directly
[09:31] <seb128> sjoerd: I would say bugzilla for the upstream bug tracker ;-)
[09:31] <sjoerd> :)
[09:31] <\sh> raphink, well, it does somehow but not as described
[09:33] <raphink>                 addenv ("HUSHLOGIN=FALSE", NULL);
[09:33] <raphink>                 /*
[09:33] <raphink>                  * pam_unix, pam_mail and pam_lastlog should take care of
[09:33] <raphink>                  * this
[09:33] <raphink>                  */
[09:33] <raphink> hi allee
[09:33] <slytherin> seb128: Can you please look at bug 212801? It causes depwait for f-spot on powerpc
[09:33] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 212801 in gnome-desktop-sharp2 "Please promote to main on powerpc" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/212801
[09:33] <slytherin> raphink: please use pastebin
[09:33] <raphink> sure
[09:34] <raphink> sorry
[09:34] <allee> morning raphink, long time no see
[09:34] <raphink> \sh: the definition of this variable seems to be controlled by the hushed function
[09:35] <\sh> yepp...
[09:35]  * \sh stops now and goes home
[09:35] <raphink> which is returned by pam_open_session
[09:35] <seb128> slytherin: could do that, the bug has been opened on a sunday and is open for less than a day though, no need to ping people on IRC
[09:36] <slytherin> seb128: Ok. Will keep that in mind now onwards.
[09:36] <raphink> ah no
[09:49]  * Nafallo ponders
[09:50] <Nafallo> anyone know of a bug with backlight? my vaio seems to have it turned off in hardy.
[09:52] <seb128> Nafallo: gnome-power-manager issue? You want to speak to ted when he'll be around, it's sunday night still for him right now
[09:52] <raphink> hmmm
[09:52] <raphink> hushlogins actually works with the login command, but not with ssh
[09:56] <raphink> \sh: openssh deals with hushlogin itself without using login
[09:57] <raphink> session.c:      snprintf(buf, sizeof(buf), "%.200s/.hushlogin", pw->pw_dir);
[10:06] <Nafallo> seb128: dunno where it comes from. will speak to him, thanks :-)
[11:20] <james_w> I want to force a debconf question on some upgrades to help fix a problem that existed in some previous versions of a package.
[11:21] <james_w> This works fine when the package is installed with dpkg, but not with apt, as that calls config twice for the upgrade, and so I end up forcing it to be shown twice.
[11:21] <james_w> What would be the best way to ensure that the question is only shown once on the upgrade?
[11:22] <james_w> as far as I know config is called with the same arguments both times isn't it?
[11:26] <cjwatson> james_w: I take it this is a debconf question that already existed beforehand?
[11:28] <james_w> cjwatson: yes, this is ca-certificates again.
[11:28] <cjwatson> james_w: I've done this kind of thing before; bear with me while I find an example
[11:28] <james_w> I'm overriding the seen flag in certain cases to give a prompt to the user when we are reasonably sure that they were hit by the bug.
[11:29] <james_w> unfortunately I didn't test with apt as I didn't realise there would be this difference.
[11:29] <cjwatson> (I did it by setting a different flag, seen_in_<whatever version>_upgrade, IIRC; flag names are actually quite free-form even though "seen" is special)
[11:29] <james_w> ah, so you can set arbitrary things with db_fset?
[11:30] <cjwatson> james_w: right; look at /var/lib/dpkg/info/man-db.config
[11:30] <james_w> thanks.
[11:30] <cjwatson> james_w: and the cleanup code near the end of the postinst
[11:31] <cjwatson> james_w: at the time, joeyh said he'd never heard of anyone else taking advantage of the fact that you can have arbitrary flags, so I got to feel special ;-)
[11:31] <james_w> :-)
[11:32] <james_w> this is an SRU as well, so should I use one flag value and not clean up until hardy, so that the user will only be prompted once?
[11:33] <cjwatson> hmm
[11:33] <cjwatson> that would work
[11:33] <cjwatson> I'm not sure whether I prefer that, or special-casing the SRU versions in hardy
[11:34] <cjwatson> yours is probably neater given that dealing with non-trivial trees of versions is a pain
[11:35] <james_w> yeah, pitti wasn't happy with my initial version that special cased the versions, so the current code will prompt once per distribution upgrade.
[11:40] <cjwatson> not cleaning up the flag in the SRU is fine as long as it gets cleaned up eventually. I do have an objection to leaving cruft in the debconf db that never gets cleaned up, but "eventually" is fine.
[12:24] <beasty_> morning
[12:24] <beasty_> is it hard to setup your own apt-repository
[12:24] <beasty_> ?
[12:25] <Daviey> no
[12:26] <beasty_> ok i found a mini howto
[12:26] <beasty_> now next step
[12:26] <beasty_> is it hard to create a .deb file ?
[12:27] <beasty_> and if not ... is there a howto avail ?
[12:28] <crevette> create a deb, for me means nothing; you want to create a new package from scratch ?
[12:28] <crevette> or just rebuild existing package
[12:30] <beasty_> crevette: build somthing from scratch
[12:31] <crevette> I would start to read docs on internet on debian.org
[12:31] <crevette> and look in package sources for example
[12:31] <crevette> apt-get sources <packagename>
[12:31] <beasty_> ok
[12:32] <seb128> https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
[12:32] <seb128> you can read that
[12:32] <seb128> https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html rather
[12:32] <crevette> ah yeah this one is neat
[12:37] <beasty_> just some files that need to be placed somewhere i'll figure it out
[12:37] <beasty_> thanks for your help seb128
[12:37] <beasty_> and crevette
[12:37] <crevette> you're welcome
[12:45] <beasty_> crevette: the fact is
[12:45] <beasty_> the pages you gave me were from c/c++ projects
[12:46] <cjwatson> beasty_: it doesn't make much difference; the only thing that really changes is what you put in the debian/rules build target
[12:46] <beasty_> all i need is that some files are distribuated to certain directories
[12:46] <cjwatson> since compiling source is strictly more complicated than just putting files in place, you can just simplify what you have
[12:47] <cjwatson> also read debhelper(1) and its various child manual pages, specifically dh_install(1)
[12:55] <seb128> TheMuso: around to discuss launchpad integration changes?
[12:55] <TheMuso> seb128: Yes I am.
[12:57] <seb128> TheMuso: what would you think about changing the launchpad_integration_add_ui to add the separators automatically?
[12:58] <seb128> TheMuso: that's what is used in most cases, it would mean we can use the short version and update quickly the packages using it
[12:58] <TheMuso> seb128: I don't know why that wasn't suggested in the first place, so no argument from me.
[12:59] <seb128> since the semantic change we can bump the soname
[12:59] <seb128> so we know what we need to rebuild
[12:59] <seb128> and the changes are just dropped the separators in the xml descriptions
[12:59] <seb128> s/dropped/dropping/
[12:59] <TheMuso> Yeah I gathered.
[13:00] <seb128> cjwatson: any opinion on doing that or not?
[13:00] <TheMuso> Do you want to keep the additional function, i.e the _with_separators function?
[13:00] <cjwatson> entirely your call as far as I'm concerned
[13:00] <cjwatson> does it deal with handling the case where the LPI bits are at the start or end of the menu?
[13:00] <seb128> TheMuso: yes, it can be useful in case we don't want add a separator before and after which can happen
[13:01] <seb128> cjwatson: we still keep the new function for those cases
[13:01] <TheMuso> seb128: ah of course.
[13:01] <seb128> but right we could try to get the standard function clever and detect menu start and end
[13:01] <seb128> but not something for hardy
[13:02] <cjwatson> as long as the old library is kept around until everything's rebuilt, the disruption should be minimal
[13:02] <seb128> ok
[13:02] <seb128> TheMuso: can you do that now? ;-)
[13:02] <seb128> GNOME 2.22.1 tarballs are due today
[13:03] <seb128> so if we can land the lib change before the uploads we will have most of rebuilds done easily
[13:04] <TheMuso> seb128: Yes I can... You said to bump the soname? I still don't quite understand why, if the API is staying the same...
[13:05] <seb128> TheMuso: the sementic change, we needed to add the separators to the ui description and we don't now
[13:05] <seb128> TheMuso: and that makes easier to know what needs to be rebuilt or not
[13:06] <seb128> TheMuso: I don't have a strong opinion about it though
[13:06] <tjaalton> could an archive admin please sync tightvnc, since the current version is uninstallable
[13:06] <TheMuso> seb128: Ok. We are only bumping the soname for liblaunchpad-integration, adn not lpint-bonobo?
[13:07] <seb128> TheMuso: right
[13:07] <TheMuso> seb128: Ok, I'm on it.
[13:07] <seb128> TheMuso: if that's possible, if they are coded to have the soname changing both is no issue
[13:08] <TheMuso> Ok.
[13:08] <seb128> tjaalton: ups, forgot the other day, I just synced it now
[13:09] <tjaalton> seb128: heh, thanks :)
[13:10] <Riddell> infinity: I managed to run BuildLiveCD locally and it does indeed stop at 72% for kubuntu-kde4
[13:11] <Riddell> now I wonder where to start in reproducing it
[13:22] <TheMuso> sebOk code changes are done, give me a bit to test.
[13:22] <TheMuso> gah
[13:26] <TheMuso> seb128: One question. What part of the soname needs to be bumped? I'm guessing one of the minor fields?
[13:27] <seb128> TheMuso: wait, I've got yet another idea
[13:27] <TheMuso> seb128: Ok.
[13:28] <seb128> TheMuso: can we look to the previous and next element and know what they are?
[13:28] <TheMuso> seb128: I don't know enough gtk to comment.
[13:28] <seb128> TheMuso: in which case we can add the separators only those are not separators already
[13:31] <seb128> TheMuso: hum, not trivial to do and not required I would say, let's do the soname change rather
[13:31] <seb128> TheMuso: the soname is the number directly after .so, the major number
[13:31] <TheMuso> seb128: Right, I thought the soname referred to all three numbers as a whole.
[13:32] <seb128> TheMuso: anyway it's late for you now no? Maybe let's continue tomorrow rather than rush if you want
[13:32] <TheMuso> seb128: I'm at the point where I'm ready to test my changes, its fine I can do this now.
[13:32] <seb128> TheMuso: ok, thanks
[13:35] <TheMuso> seb128: A quick question about seahorse. Is there any way we can get seahorse agent to load in a way that it sees the GTK_MODULES environment variable for at-spi? Currently the pop-up dialogs for SSH/GPG keys are not accessible, because seahorse-agent loads too early.
[13:35] <seb128> slomo: ^ do you know about that?
[13:37] <seb128> TheMuso: what do you call seahorse agent? gnome-keyring does ssh and gpg in hardy now
[13:38] <TheMuso> seb128: seb128 in /etc/X11/Xsession.d there is 60seahorse, which queues seahorse-agent to be loaded...
[13:38] <TheMuso> Unless that is a remnant left on my system...
[13:38] <siretart> seb128: does gnome-keyring happen to support keys from a gnupg smartcard?
[13:39] <lamont> The following packages will be REMOVED
[13:39] <lamont>   linux-686 linux-generic
[13:39] <lamont> le huh?
[13:39] <Ng> TheMuso: the seahorse package claims that file here, and I too have seahorse-agent parenting my session
[13:42] <seb128> siretart: no idea
[13:42] <seb128> TheMuso: hum right, I guess gnome-session should start it rather or something
[13:44] <TheMuso> seb128: Right, maybe something for hardy+1. I'm just thinking of others. I can work with the dialogs fine myself.
[13:45] <seb128> ok
[13:45] <siretart> seb128: is there some announcement or something about the gpg support in gnome-keyring? I fail to find it in the changelog?
[13:46] <seb128> siretart: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeKeyring
[13:47] <siretart> that page doesn't loose any word about 'gpg' nor 'gnupg'.
[13:47] <siretart> it does talk about ssh, though
[13:50] <slytherin> AFAIK, seahorse agent officially replaced gnome-keyring-manager
[13:52] <seb128> siretart: are you sure it does gpg?
[13:52] <siretart> seb128: you claimed that before. that's why I'm asking
[13:52] <siretart> 14:37:00 < seb128> TheMuso: what do you call seahorse agent? gnome-keyring does ssh and gpg in hardy now
[13:53] <seb128> siretart: typo then
[13:53] <seb128> siretart: it does ssh
[13:53] <siretart> seahorse does both (but without smartcard support)
[13:54] <siretart> is it the intention to make gnome-keyring replace seahorse?
[13:55] <seb128> siretart: I think so, at least the agent part, maybe not the user interface
[13:56] <siretart> hm
[13:56] <siretart> on what (gnome?) mailing list do such discussion happen?
[13:57] <lamont> does update-notifier leave a file somewhere when there are updates available>?
[13:59] <james_w> lamont: I presume it just asks apt.
[14:01] <pitti> Good morning
[14:01] <lamont> james_w: and the question is 'does it leave that info in a file somewhere, or is it completely in-core?'
[14:03] <ffm_> Hi, I have a bug that is _really_ a blocker for FF3 in hardy, can someone take a look at it?
[14:03] <ffm_> (It affects certin pages seemingly for no reason)
[14:04] <Riddell> ffm_: ask asac politely
[14:04] <ffm_> Can someone please look at Bug #212315
[14:04] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 212315 in firefox-3.0 "Page does not render, old tab appears in place" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/212315
[14:04] <ffm_> Riddell: How's that?
[14:04] <pitti> soren: I'll have a look at 197968
[14:04] <pitti> YokoZar: ia32-libs> no, of course not
[14:05] <ffm_> Hm.. it works... odd...
[14:05] <slytherin> lamont: there is a file /var/lib/dpkg/status which has status of all the applications. I guess apt uses this file and compares list of packages to determine if upgrades are available
[14:06] <Ng> ffm_: the page you link to works fine for me
[14:06] <lamont> slytherin: I know how to do the task over, I'm just wondering if update-notifier has made it trivial
[14:06] <pitti> slytherin: promoted
[14:07] <slytherin> pitti: thanks. Can I also ask you for a give back for f-spot?
[14:08] <pitti> slytherin: nothing to give back, it's depwaiting
[14:09] <slytherin> pitti: so will it automatically start building? It was depwaiting due to libgtkhtml3.16-cil being in universe
[14:09] <james_w> lamont: it seems to ask /usr/lib/update-notifier/apt-check
[14:09] <pitti> slytherin: yes, it will
[14:09] <slytherin> pitti: Ok. Thanks a ton
[14:09] <james_w> lamont: which does "sys.stderr.write("%s;%s" % (upgrades,security_updates))"
[14:11] <asac> ffm_: for me that page works
[14:13] <lamont> james_w: kewl
[14:18]  * Hobbsee just gave it back
[14:18] <Hobbsee> hmmm
[14:24] <dholbach> cjwatson: do we build xubuntu from universe nowadays?
[14:24] <megabyte405> hello dholbach
[14:24] <dholbach> hi megabyte405
[14:24] <TheMuso> dholbach: yes we do.
[14:25] <dholbach> megabyte405: as i understand it: abiword is currently in main because xubuntu made use of it, as TheMuso just said we build xubuntu from universe nowadays
[14:25] <dholbach> megabyte405: which means: if we move abiword to universe we wouldn't have to bother filing main inclusion requests for build-dependencies
[14:25] <megabyte405> hmm
[14:25] <Fujitsu> abiword is also about the only wordprocessor that doesn't suck... demoting it sounds bad.
[14:25] <megabyte405> yeah, I'm not immediately in favor of moving abi to universe
[14:26] <seb128> Fujitsu: having it outdated doesn't sound good either though
[14:26] <slytherin> Hobbsee: looks like you did the give-back too early. Let it be handled automatically now. :-)
[14:26] <Fujitsu> seb128: This is true.
[14:26] <dholbach> seb128: bug 202174 is all about getting it updated
[14:26] <megabyte405> I'd rather make a subpackage abiword-collaboration
[14:26] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 202174 in abiword "Please update to version 2.6" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/202174
[14:26] <seb128> dholbach: well, you start speaking about promoting new things
[14:26] <dholbach> megabyte405: still it'd build from the same source package (which is in main, so all of it's build-depends would need to be in main too)
[14:26] <dholbach> seb128: no, I pondered demoting it
[14:26] <megabyte405> dholbach: oh, I see
[14:27] <seb128> I think it makes sense to demote it
[14:27] <megabyte405> hmm, so that's not a good situation in eitiher way.  What would be the estimated effort to get asio in main?
[14:27] <dholbach> getting changes into abiword in ubuntu would be quicker too, if it lived in universe
[14:27] <megabyte405> is there a downside?
[14:27] <cjwatson> dholbach: I don't believe that's the only reason abiword is in main
[14:27] <dholbach> megabyte405: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess
[14:27] <dholbach> cjwatson: oh, ok
[14:28] <cjwatson> dholbach: it's in the Ubuntu DVD seed
[14:28] <dholbach> cjwatson: I didn't bother grepping though the seed commit logs, just checked the rdepends
[14:28] <dholbach> alright
[14:28] <megabyte405> I would rather remove collab for the time being, I think
[14:28] <dholbach> megabyte405: that'd mean setting a build option?
[14:29] <megabyte405> yes
[14:29] <dholbach> right
[14:29] <megabyte405> or simply not having the dependency, configure will turn it off automatically if we don't satisfy the dependencies
[14:29] <dholbach> I see
[14:34] <megabyte405> I'm gonna say for now, let's keep it in main, I'll turn off collab, and consider submitting an abiword-plugins-universe package
[14:34] <seb128> new source?
[14:35] <dholbach> 2.6.2 afaik (bug 202174)
[14:35] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 202174 in abiword "Please update to version 2.6" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/202174
[14:36] <seb128> dholbach: just pointing that a new binary will not remove the need for the Build-Depends to be in main still
[14:36] <seb128> dholbach: if that's what is suggested there
[14:36] <Riddell> infinity: seems to be caused by kde-l10n-de
[14:36] <megabyte405> seb128: yes, I would package abiword-plugins again and only enable the universe-required ones
[14:36] <megabyte405> a very simple package, I think.
[14:36] <megabyte405> brb - temporarly laptop sleep
[14:37] <dholbach> seb128: I'm not sure I understand
[14:39] <seb128> dholbach: well, those tools are built from abiword itself, so would the new abiword-plugins-universe suggested there be a new source in universe?
[14:39] <dholbach> I don't know
[14:41] <TheMuso> seb128: Ok things look ok with an evince test. I'll update the patch in launchpad-integration as well, and will upload...
[14:41] <seb128> TheMuso: thanks!
[14:45] <megabyte405> the trouble package is just a bunch of headers
[14:45] <megabyte405> since it doesn't have to be compiled, I could just patch it in to the source
[14:46] <TheMuso> seb128: Ok so I've bumped the soname from 0 to 1, renamed the liblaunchpad-integration package... Just checking this is correct before I go ahead?
[14:46] <seb128> TheMuso: sure, do you have your source package somewhere?
[14:47] <TheMuso> seb128: Not yet, I can push to a bzr branch if that helps.
[14:47] <seb128> TheMuso: well, as you want, I can have a look if you have the updated version somewhere
[14:48] <dholbach> megabyte405: not sure if that's a good solution - we try to avoid duplication of code wherever we can
[14:48] <TheMuso> seb128: ok just a sec.
[14:48] <megabyte405> dholbach: I agree it is not a good solution - it would be while I go through the MIR process for asio-dev
[14:48] <megabyte405> a "stop gap measure" if you will
[14:49] <TheMuso> seb128: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~themuso/launchpad-integration/new-api
[14:53] <seb128> TheMuso: seems fine to me, if that works correctly just upload ;-)
[14:54] <TheMuso> seb128: Ok thanks for the review, will do so now.
[14:54] <seb128> thanks for the work on that
[14:55] <TheMuso> No problem.
[15:00] <ffm_> asac: Must be an issue on my end then.
[15:01] <emgent> heya
[15:03] <TheMuso> seb128: Ok uploaded. The new binary packages will have to be newed, otherwise the other bits of launchpad-integration, and apps that depend on them will be uninstallable.
[15:05] <asac> ffm_: try to disable extensions
[15:05] <cjwatson> TheMuso: note that binary uploads don't get accepted until all their binary packages have been NEW-processed, if necessary
[15:06] <cjwatson> so the only way you can get into that situation is with Architecture: all binaries
[15:06] <cjwatson> (in the event that the i386 build is processed out of sync with the others)
[15:06] <TheMuso> cjwatson: Oh ok.
[15:06] <TheMuso> Makes sense.
[15:07] <TheMuso> cjwatson: Managed to reproduce that libssl bug, which I've partially tested a fix for, but the rest is for tomorrow, so goodnight all.
[15:08] <cjwatson> night!
[15:08] <seb128> TheMuso: ok, thanks and have a good night!
[15:18] <adrian15> Does anyone apart from tuxcantfly, who seems not to be online, how to do I build a unetbootin image from source code? Thank you.
[15:39] <cjwatson> adrian15: what does "unetbootin" mean? (Obviously I can make a good guess but there are a few slightly different things you might mean and it would be better if you expanded your abbreviation.)
[15:43] <leon_pegg> wasabi hello are you still pursuing your https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ThirdPartyApt blueprint?
[15:44] <wasabi> Eh. It's something I'd like to work on, given infinite time.
[15:44] <wasabi> Actually, there are a few people workign on similar things now...
[15:45] <wasabi> But I still like mine better. :0
[15:45] <leon_pegg> gapti is an implementaion of thrid party apt but its broken :(
[15:45] <wasabi> Yeah. I know. I wrote that.
[15:45] <wasabi> It was pretty crappy. Callouts to bin/gpg and apt and stuff.
[15:46] <wasabi> If I was redoing it today, I'd probably integrate it somehow into the Add/Remove or update-manager bases.
[15:46] <wasabi> Which seem to provide a lot of the mechanics already.
[15:46] <wasabi> It's actually probably a 24 hour task for somebody familiar with that code.
[15:46] <leon_pegg> I was wondering what the current state of development was as I was planning to give a go at implementing it myself
[15:46] <wasabi> Oh yeah?
[15:47] <wasabi> gapti to me was more just a proof of concept. I just wanted to see if I could write a program that could do the basics, show the right dialogs, etc.
[15:47] <leon_pegg> I run a repository at http://the.orangearchive.net/ (http://deb.orangearchive.net/)
[15:47] <adrian15> cjwatson: I am talking about this: http://lubi.sourceforge.net/unetbootin.html
[15:47] <adrian15> cjwatson: I want to make a custom super grub disk build for windows.
[15:47] <wasabi> leon_pegg: I highly recommend you investigate harmonizing with the add/remove or update-manager bases. And if not that, then integrate directly into synaptic.
[15:48] <leon_pegg> ok, do you have any other segestions for me before I start
[15:48] <wasabi> Not really. Maybe think harder about my file format before continuing.
[15:48] <wasabi> I'm not too happy with the way I sign the file.
[15:49] <wasabi> I'm not even sure it needs to be signed.
[15:49] <leon_pegg> the one thing I noticed was that the apt file had to have an install line
[15:49] <wasabi> Yeah?
[15:49] <leon_pegg> the file format seemed ok to me
[15:49] <leon_pegg> well thats how the gapti worked (think i have a really old source copy)
[15:49] <wasabi> Yeah.
[15:50] <wasabi> The first line of the file is very non-conventional.
[15:50] <wasabi> The mime type thing.
[15:50] <leon_pegg> is it actually needed?
[15:50] <wasabi> It originated because I was getting annoyed at text-based files without any good type of type indicator. ;)
[15:51] <wasabi> Doing mime type detection on an extension sucks.
[15:51] <wasabi> And with out, it looks like a plain ol' gpg signed file.
[15:51] <wasabi> I dunno. I'd entertain other suggestions.
[15:52] <wasabi> You know, one of the things I wanted to do was restrict the Install line to allow packages to be installed which are signed with the same key.
[15:52] <leon_pegg> I was planning an almost exact implementation by your blueprint but if you have segestions on the fileformat I would love to know
[15:52] <wasabi> But some people, who have a different aim for ThirdPartyApt than I did, thought that was a bad idea.
[15:53] <wasabi> That is, ONLY allow packages with the same key.
[15:53] <leon_pegg> that make perfect sense
[15:53] <cjwatson> adrian15: oh, goodness, no idea then. I thought it was an abbreviation for something standard from Ubuntu.
[15:53] <wasabi> For instance, if the file is signed with the Ubuntu key, then it can only install packages from Ubuntu's archives.
[15:53] <wasabi> If it's signed with Your key, then only repositories signed with your key would be installable.
[15:53] <cjwatson> adrian15: I'm not sure this is the best place to ask, since it doesn't come from us
[15:53] <wasabi> But this introduces a problem for some people, who want to be able to easily link to Ubuntu packages.
[15:54] <wasabi> Me, I don't care about this people. I don't think that is very useful.
[15:54] <leon_pegg> wasabi, I think that maybe we could completely kill the install line
[15:54] <wasabi> How so?
[15:54] <wasabi> If vmware hands you a file, I'd only want vmware to initiate install of vmware.
[15:54] <leon_pegg> because we have apturl
[15:54] <wasabi> (that could depend on other files)
[15:55] <leon_pegg> as the person clicks the link for the apt file (which installs the repository) then the user clicks the apturl link that then installs the program
[15:55] <wasabi> What's apturl?
[15:55] <leon_pegg> apt://php5-cli
[15:55] <wasabi> Oh. Eh. I never really liked that.
[15:55] <soren> pitti: "13:04:45 < pitti> soren: I'll have a look at 197968"   Ok, cool! I'm not sure why you're telling me, though :)
[15:55] <wasabi> Dunno.
[15:56] <leon_pegg> clicking that from firefox in gutsy will ask the user to install php5-cli package
[15:56] <wasabi> For a web page to be able to randomlly initiate an install from any repositiory, to me seems dangerous.
[15:56] <wasabi> It's not really non-secure. The user still has to accept it... but it's confusing.
[15:56] <wasabi> Which may make the user make a wrong choice.
[15:56] <pitti> soren| 15:34:39 < xhaker> ahh weekends... pitti care to look into bug #197968
[15:56] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 197968 in libmtp "Link in udev rules.d" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/197968
[15:56] <pitti> soren: ^ because of that
[15:57] <adrian15> cjwatson: :) I supposed that 8.04 included lubi... when you open cd in windows it asks you to install ubuntu into windows as an image... isn't it ? ;)
[15:57] <leon_pegg> saying that we have to put some trust in users to make informed choices
[15:57] <wasabi> Sure, but we have to be able to not present those users with confusing choices.
[15:57] <cjwatson> adrian15: 8.04 includes wubi, but not unetbootin
[15:57] <wasabi> Or misleading.
[15:58] <cjwatson> adrian15: lubi is a different frontend, AFAIK
[15:58] <leon_pegg> very true.
[15:58] <wasabi> I sort of just do not really like the idea of some random webpage on the internet installing Ubuntu packages.
[15:58] <leon_pegg> its posible now apturl is installed by default in gutsy
[16:00] <wasabi> Oh. Great.
[16:00] <wasabi> See, to me it's not that big of a deal... what it is is misleading.
[16:00] <leon_pegg> wasabi, the way I see it is your spec is designed to allow users an easy way to add third party repos making the spec have the ability to install packages to seems odd to be
[16:00] <soren> pitti: Oh! Hehe :) That was just me pasting a few lines of scrollback for cody.
[16:00] <wasabi> If I install an Ubuntu package, I expect to do so from an official looking ubuntu.com page.
[16:01] <wasabi> leon_pegg: The spec's purpose is to assist ISVs.
[16:01] <wasabi> leon_pegg: That is all. I want people like VMware to be able to offer a great user experience, so they choose to use Ubuntu.
[16:01] <wasabi> leon_pegg: Click here to Install VMware Workstation 6.5!     Or some big nice looking button. And it asks the proper questions, sets up the proper stuff, and Just Works.
[16:02] <wasabi> The spec's purpose is not to install Ubuntu packages. We already have tools for that.
[16:02] <leon_pegg> maybe having the spec so it does not have to install packages but can also just add the repository and key
[16:02] <wasabi> See, I don't really think user's give a damned about repostories and keys. They just want software.
[16:02] <wasabi> The repositories are just an implementation detail.
[16:02] <wasabi> They want to a) install something b) make sure updates are tracked.
[16:03] <leon_pegg> yes but a key concept of your blueprint is the adding of the repository and key
[16:03] <wasabi> Which is not something I wanted to describe to the user using that language.
[16:04] <wasabi> I wanted to describe it more like:   "Do you approve of the installation of VMware distributed by VMware, Inc?"   "yes"   "no"             "Do you want to trust VMware to deliver future updates to installed components?"
[16:04] <leon_pegg> ah that sounds much better
[16:04] <wasabi> This is about making the Ubuntu user experience attractive for ISVs, so they are motivated to consider Ubuntu a main platform.
[16:04] <wasabi> And deploy .debs, and track updates.
[16:04] <wasabi> And I really do mean third party ISVs.
[16:05] <wasabi> And that does mean, usually, commercial.
[16:05] <wasabi> But not always.
[16:06] <leon_pegg> like the repository I maintain at orangeArchive its main task is to distribute php-gtk to debian and ubuntu users and keep it uptodate
[16:06] <wasabi> Isn't that already in Ubuntu/Debian?
[16:06] <leon_pegg> no
[16:06] <wasabi> See, with open source software, it actually is easier to put it in the main archive.
[16:07] <wasabi> s/open source/free/
[16:07] <leon_pegg> I have only started packaging php-gtk it has also only just had an offical release before it was alpha/beta
[16:07] <wasabi> So package it, get it in Debian main.
[16:08] <leon_pegg> its packaged, and I am also working on getting it accepted
[16:09] <wasabi> If getting it accepted is a big problem, then that process needs to be improved.
[16:09] <wasabi> Which is a seperate issue from ThirdPartyApt.
[16:09] <leon_pegg> I think its more to do with the guy from php-gtk
[16:09] <wasabi> Now, I don't want to poo poo all over your motivation to work on ThirdPartyApt. :0
[16:09] <wasabi> I just want to convey what my goal of it was.
[16:10] <wasabi> To be honest, if you work on it, for whatever purpose you have, and it also fulfills mine, I'd be ecstatic. :0
[16:10] <wasabi> Back when I wrote it apt:// did not exist.
[16:10] <leon_pegg> I also run other repos that distribute software I have developed to client (the main reason I like Third Part Apt)
[16:10] <wasabi> Also, I think I still disapprove of that idea. But there's apparently little I can do about that.
[16:10] <wasabi> It's open for abuse.
[16:11] <wasabi> Much like ActiveX and friends.
[16:11] <wasabi> Though, I guess mine is too.
[16:11] <wasabi> I guess my main concern is... we know we have packages in universe with security vulns. We know this.
[16:11] <wasabi> I don't really want to make it super easy for random web pages to prompt users to install software, which says it's official Ubuntu software.
[16:12] <wasabi> I don't mind ubuntu.com prompting users for that.    I don't mind random web pages prompting users for things and it NOT saying it's approved by Ubuntu, but by some other party.
[16:12] <leon_pegg> thats were signing the files in your spec helps
[16:12] <wasabi> But the cross over gets me.
[16:12] <ScottK2> I look at PPAs and pretty well consider the third party repository question is resolved in Canonical's perspective.
[16:13] <wasabi> scottK, review ThirdPartyApt spec before proceeding. :0
[16:13] <wasabi> I just want to avoid, as much as possible, any random web page popping up a dialog to install FooBar and having it say it's signed by Ubuntu which is trusted.
[16:14] <ScottK2> It doesn't mean I favor it, but that it's pretty well to late to worry overmuch.
[16:14] <wasabi> To me that's misleading, and gives users a false sense of security.
[16:14] <leon_pegg> I aggree
[16:14] <wasabi> Hence the install line.
[16:14] <leon_pegg> I would want to avoid that at all costs
[16:14] <wasabi> packages on the install line must be signed by the same key that signed the original file.
[16:15] <wasabi> leon_pegg: Another thing, if users say they don't want to track updates, I want the key to be untrusted.
[16:15] <leon_pegg> that I agree with but as I see it installing packages at the same time does not prevent someone creating a copycat gpg key and doing it that way
[16:16] <wasabi> And the repository to be removed.
[16:16] <cjwatson> it should say "ubuntu.com" rather than Ubuntu, and make any internationalised domain name handling obvious
[16:16] <leon_pegg> that makes sense
[16:16] <cjwatson> (if the description is free-form and provided by the site, what's to stop evil.example.com saying that it should be described as Ubuntu?)
[16:16] <wasabi> cjwatson: You are absolutely right.
[16:17] <wasabi> And I agree that means the url comes into play somehow.
[16:18] <wasabi> Anyways, obviously more thinking has to be done.
[16:18] <leon_pegg> so we check the url against the repo url ?
[16:18] <wasabi> Which is one of the main reasons I just never finished it.
[16:18] <wasabi> leon_pegg: Or some sort of way to tie the file itself to it's origin.
[16:19] <wasabi> Perhaps the file gets the domain name in it, and it must be launched from that domain (which will require some communication with browser in some way)
[16:19] <leon_pegg> wasabi, communication with the browser is not to hard
[16:21] <leon_pegg> instead of downloading the .apt file clicking a link to a .apt file will trigger the Thrid Party Apt program directly which downloads the file which then allows checking domain against the domain in the apt file
[16:21] <seb128> slangasek: any news about the pixman update?
[16:22] <leon_pegg> wasabi, I know how to go about this in firefox but not sure about other browsers
[16:23] <_MMA_> seb128: We talked about the clock-panel applet and the space it has on the left when no home location is set for the user. Has/will this be fixed before release?
[16:23] <seb128> _MMA_: will you send a patch? ;-)
[16:24] <seb128> _MMA_: it has not been fixed yet, not sure if it'll, depends of upstream or if somebody works on the required change
[16:24] <_MMA_> seb128: You mentioned it was a known upstream bug and was in the works. If it wont be fixed, Ill simple switch off the gconf keys for Ubuntu Studio users.
[16:25] <seb128> _MMA_: your call
[16:25] <seb128> I've no idea yet if that will be fixed or not before hardy
[16:25] <_MMA_> Ok. I just didnt want to do it if a propper fix was gonna land for Hardy.
[16:27] <seb128> _MMA_: ok, btw we still didn't get user complains about that
[16:27] <wasabi> leon_pegg: All seems reasonable.
[16:28] <leon_pegg> ok Well I am going to have a look over gapti and then browser the updatemanager add remove and the likes I'll let you know my progress
[17:34] <keescook> tedg: your screen res stuff is very interesting -- I'm surprised 16:9 is less than 1 percent (I took your data and extracted 16:9)
[17:35] <Ng> 16:10 shirley?
[17:35] <Ng> err, I mean, surely that's what widescreen monitors are?
[17:36] <broonie> They're traditionally 16:9...
[17:36] <Pici> More recently 16:10...
[17:36] <tedg> No, TVs are 16:9, most screens are 16:10
[17:37] <tedg> 1920x1080 vs. 1920x1200
[17:37] <Pici> Why? I dont know, thats just the way they are.
[17:37] <keescook> yeah, that's why I was surprised.
[17:37] <tedg> I thought more people would be using TVs also.  But then I found a lot of the TVs actually use 1920x1200 with the computer input.
[17:37]  * broonie suspects that the resolution of the screen may differ from the physical aspect ratio.
[17:38] <tedg> Yes, square pixels are unlikely on TVs, though most monitors have them.
[17:38] <tedg> NTSC basically specified that they shouldn't be square so that most manufactures are used to that.
[17:38] <slangasek> seb128: ack on pixman, but LP wouldn't let me submit that comment to thebug right now...
[17:38] <keescook> my TV computer is 1920x1080 (but I don't browse the web with it...)
[17:39] <tedg> keescook: See, you're skewing the stats.  Go get websurfing!
[17:39] <keescook> heh
[17:40] <tedg> I was pretty stoked that newz2000 posted those stats publicly so I could blog on them :)
[17:40] <seb128> slangasek: ok, thanks
[17:41] <seb128> slangasek: btw upstream fixed the clock applet timezone picking
[17:41] <pitti> mvo: ah, installing your latest compiz crack now
[17:43] <slangasek> seb128: which way did they fix it? :-)
[17:43] <mario_limonciell> mvo, xtknight needed to talk to you sometime last night about too many vinagre desktop files showing in add/remove applications.  I thought it was some sort of list that needed to be modified for what "doesn't" show up in that list by default, but i forgot, so I referred him your way
[17:43] <seb128> slangasek: added codes for countries and states in the xml database and changing the libgweather api to use those
[17:44] <seb128> slangasek: which means a soname change but only gnome-applets and gnome-panel are using the lib so that's ok
[17:45] <slangasek> seb128: mm, so the config dialog itself is still going to be upside down?
[17:45] <xtknight> mvo, yup i am available whenever you are ready to talk about the vinagre stuff
[17:45] <seb128> slangasek: yes, but I don't think that's an issue if the timezone selection is right, it means only 1 action = pick a city to get everything working
[17:46] <slangasek> seb128: if all you want is time, the current picker is still nasty
[17:46] <seb128> slangasek: switching those would mean you have to pick a timezone for nothing if you are going to select a location anyway
[17:46] <seb128> slangasek: well nothing suggests to the user that the location is for weathering
[17:46] <slangasek> seb128: and limiting the TZ selections by country code is not going to solve the problem for all locations in the US
[17:46] <seb128> slangasek: so from an user point of view it's just picking the nearest town
[17:47] <seb128> slangasek: they added coded by countries and by states I think
[17:47] <slangasek> seb128: which is a pain in the ass - I shouldn't be presented with a cluttered UI for "picking the nearest town" if all I'm doing is configuring a clock
[17:47] <seb128> slangasek: picking a town or a timezone is that really different?
[17:47] <seb128> it's just pointing where you are on a map basically
[17:48] <ScottK2> Depends on if the nearest major town is in the same time zone or not.
[17:49] <slangasek> seb128: yes, picking a timezone is two levels (America -> Los_Angeles) and picking a city is five levels (North America -> United States -> Oregon -> Portland -> augh why wouldn't it let me pick Portland, oh goddamn it it's another submenu, ok I'll pick Hillsboro Airport)
[17:49] <seb128> you can still change the timezone manually
[17:49] <slangasek> changing the timezone manually is not a feature!
[17:49] <slangasek> for > 90% of users, the timezone is the whole point of the exercise!
[17:49] <seb128> slangasek: I disagree with that, 90% of the user will pick a location and be done with the dialog
[17:50] <slangasek> huh?
[17:50] <slangasek> for > 90% of the users, the *point* of picking a location is to get the time set right
[17:50] <seb128> which is the case now if you pick a city in your timezone
[17:50] <slangasek> a clock that can't get that right (which has been the case up until now) has been worse than worthless
[17:51] <seb128> right, I agree with that
[17:51] <seb128> but they fixed it to have the mapping working correctly now
[17:51] <slangasek> it's still way more work than users should have to go through in order to pick a timezone
[17:51] <slangasek> it's information overload
[17:51] <seb128> it's not
[17:51] <seb128> I just type my town name in the search entry
[17:52] <slangasek> a) how is the naive user supposed to know that the only cities listed are ones with airport codes?
[17:52] <slangasek> b) there are two Portlands in the US, and if I type in the search entry the wrong one comes up first
[17:52] <seb128> click on "next"
[17:52] <seb128> it'll go to the next one
[17:53] <slangasek> yes
[17:53] <seb128> anyway that's not to pick your system clock
[17:53] <seb128> but only to add extra locations
[17:53] <slangasek> but you have to be able to figure out from context whether you've got the right one in the first place
[17:53] <seb128> I think that picking the right timezone is good enough and will have to do for hardy
[17:53] <seb128> we have other issues to fix rather than this UI detail
[17:54] <slangasek> if it really picks the right timezone now
[17:54] <slangasek> I'm concerned that it's going to do the wrong thing for places like Indiana still, and we're not going to have any way to test for this
[17:54] <seb128> why would it?
[17:55] <slangasek> because Indiana is a single state with multiple timezones
[17:55] <slangasek> whose borders are not determined by a line equidistant between the cities the zones are named after
[17:56] <seb128> this whole thing is a mess ok
[17:57] <seb128> but I think it'll have to do for hardy, it's only an extra feature to add locations in an applet
[17:57] <seb128> it's not to configure your system clock nor anything
[17:58] <slangasek> well, somehow when I went to fix my clock after the applet had screwed it up, the first thing I found that would do it was the 'locations' panel...
[17:58]  * kirkland wishes he could click on a city (any city) in Texas on that map...  Finding Chicago is an exercise in patience and dexterity with a mouse :-)
[17:58] <seb128> slangasek: we changed the dialog to use time-admin since
[17:59] <seb128> kirkland: just type chicago in the search entry?
[18:00] <kirkland> seb128: in the graphical installer?  you can do that?
[18:00] <cjwatson> kirkland: you're talking about something completely different, then
[18:00] <seb128> kirkland: we are not speaking about the installer
[18:00] <kirkland> cjwatson: seb128: oh, sorry, then
[18:00] <cjwatson> there's a bug open about the difficulty with that map, and it's on evand's list
[18:00] <xtknight> what are you guys speaking aobut?
[18:00]  * kirkland goes back to the meeting where his attention should be at the moment
[18:02] <pitti> mvo: FWIW, compiz still works here; session management got a bit worse, though
[18:02] <slangasek> seb128: right, so time-admin may indeed address that for most users.  I'm still concerned that we'll still get bitten by cases where the timezone boundaries don't follow the geopolitical borders
[18:02] <pitti> mvo: before, terminals at least remembered their position and virtual desktop
[18:03] <slangasek> off the top of my head, states in the US which have split timezones are: Indiana, Tennessee, Oregon, and Alaska
[18:03] <seb128> slangasek: the xml is structured by zone, countries, states, etc so it should have no error between countries for example
[18:04] <seb128> slangasek: now those 1 state = several timezones might require adding extra code to some locations which are in this case
[18:05] <pitti> hm, I just tried adding Austin; it's off by one hour when using the time applet, hmm
[18:05] <seb128> pitti: it likely picked the wrong timezone
[18:05] <slangasek> pitti: the changes seb128 is talking about haven't been uploaded yet
[18:05] <seb128> pitti: fixed code landing today when GNOME 2.22.1 is uploaded
[18:05] <pitti> right, it chose America/Monterey instead of America/Chuhuahua
[18:06] <pitti> s/Chu/Chi/
[18:06] <pitti> seb128: ah, I'll try that; maybe that'll fix the search function,too
[18:06]  * pitti hugs seb128
[18:06]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[18:07] <slangasek> pitti: America/Chihuahua is also wrong ;)
[18:07] <slangasek> (it should be America/Chicago)
[18:07] <pitti> *shrug*, maybe; the map doesn't show anything in the vicinity of Austin :/
[18:07] <slangasek> true
[18:08] <pitti> hm, removing places makes it crash/hang
[18:09] <seb128> pitti: you really want to wait the update to test, vuntz has been fixing load of crashers and issues this week
[18:09] <pitti> slangasek: hm, when I select America/Chicago, it would be 1 am; but it's 12 am here
[18:09] <pitti> (^ in time-admin, not the panel)
[18:10] <slangasek> hmm?
[18:10] <slangasek> both of those times are wrong for Austin, even if you mean pm instead of am
[18:10] <pitti> slangasek: I mean that Chicago is apparently not the right TZ for Texas, Austin
[18:10] <pitti> erm, pm, sorry
[18:10] <slangasek> it's currently 2pm in Chicago and in Austi
[18:10] <slangasek> n
[18:11] <slangasek> ... unless I've done something to screw up my own clock while we were talking :)
[18:11] <slangasek> haha, it's 10am and my clock thinks it's 12
[18:11] <slangasek> grr
[18:11] <pitti> hm, the clock in the hotel says 12, and so does my mobile
[18:11] <slangasek> oh, because I clicked on Chicago in time-admin, pff
[18:12] <slangasek> ok, it's currently 12pm in both Chicago and Austin
[18:12] <slangasek> so if you have a different time for Chicago, your system clock must be off..?
[18:13] <pitti> Mo 7. Apr 18:12:53 UTC 2008
[18:13] <pitti> Mo 7. Apr 12:12:50 MDT 2008
[18:14] <slangasek> $ date --utc
[18:14] <slangasek> Mon Apr  7 17:14:18 UTC 2008
[18:14] <slangasek> so :)
[18:14] <pitti> hm; TZs are soo confusing :)
[18:14] <stgraber> pitti: yours is wrong :)
[18:15] <pitti> I wonder what broke it
[18:15] <pitti> it was still fine at home, hmm
[18:15] <pitti> I might have broken it when I tried to set the timezone for here in the plane
[18:15] <slangasek> :)
[18:24] <mvo> pitti: thanks for the testing!
[18:26] <dpm> could anyone tell me how are the LiveCd strings handled? what determines which packages will get a translation for the LiveCD? I'm asking because in the case of our language, it is very odd that the top level menus (Applications, Places, System) are not translated, but all the menus under those are. I've been told at #ubuntu-translators that I should contact the developers directly regarding that.
[19:14] <Riddell> evand: any plans for a ubiquity upload? having installable Kubuntu CDs would be handy
[19:15] <pitti> hah
[19:15] <pitti> slangasek: thanks
[19:18] <evand> Riddell: yes, blocked on a in progress fix by cjwatson for usplash issues.
[19:21] <slangasek> pitti: for? :)
[19:44] <pitti> slangasek:  helping me fix my TZ :)
[19:46] <slangasek> ok, you're welcome. :)
[20:22] <munckfish> cjwatson: Hi you there?
[20:34] <jdong> mvo: just wanted to drop you a quick note that compiz 0.7.4 from your PPA works great on my Hardy macbook
[20:35] <jdong> mvo: and that I think some of the new features in this compiz release such as the live previews in the Spaces switcher would be awesome to have in Hardy
[20:39] <andre2> Could someone please try to get a Freeze Exception for bug 181909?
[20:39] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 181909 in gnome-phone-manager "SonyEricsson phones can't send SMS" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/181909
[20:44] <mvo> jdong: cool, thanks for the testing! I'm applying for a freeze exception, whish me luck :)
[20:45] <jdong> mvo: good luck! :D
[20:45] <mvo> :P
[20:45] <jdong> mvo: btw have you had a chance to look into that firefox-compiz bug? might be a good time to sneak in that fix
[20:46] <mvo> jdong: which one in particular? that it switches workspaces when a new tab is opened? that is supposed to be fixed I think
[20:46] <jdong>  bug 212542
[20:46] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 212542 in compiz-fusion-plugins-main "Drop type=Utility from 01-animation-defaults.patch" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/212542
[20:46] <jdong> that one
[20:46]  * mvo looks
[20:46] <jdong> firefox 3.0 beta 5 causes compiz to use ridiculously in-your-face animations on all drop-down boxes
[20:47] <mvo> jdong: yeah, thanks! good point
[20:48] <jdong> mvo: fantastic!
[20:52] <poningru> hey sorry to be a bother but I was wondering where to take an sshfs bug
[20:52] <poningru> I think this is mostly an upstream bug
[20:53] <poningru> when I run rhythmbox over an sshfs mounted music lib
[20:53] <poningru> it kills that sshfs mount
[20:53] <poningru> I have the strace if anyone wants to take a look at it
[20:53] <poningru> the server is running gutsy
[20:53] <poningru> music library*
[20:54] <james_w> poningru: the best idea is to report a bug.
[20:55] <poningru> in launchpad?
[20:55] <james_w> yes
[20:55] <poningru> but... ok
[21:21] <mdke> superm1: thanks for looking into bug 202301. I'm just wondering: do you think the modification of description you've done could be a separate bug, or do you think it is the same bug?
[21:21] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 202301 in mozilla-firefox-locale-all "Firefox not translated/localized" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/202301
[21:58] <mario_limonciell> mdke, (i'm superm1 @ work), I think it fits as the exact same underlying bug
[21:59] <mario_limonciell> mdke, because those strings are put in the jar's
[21:59] <mario_limonciell> mdke, so once the jar's are used, the original (visible) bug will be resolved
[21:59] <mdke> mario_limonciell: right, ok! Thanks again for looking into it
[21:59] <mario_limonciell> mdke, no prob.  Hopefully that info can get it solved now :)
[22:00] <mdke> mario_limonciell: hope so
[22:22] <cjwatson> munckfish: here now
[22:23] <munckfish> oh hi
[22:23] <munckfish> :)
[22:23] <munckfish> howz it going?
[22:23] <munckfish> I'm working on the ps3-kboot stuff
[22:23] <munckfish> I had some questions earlier
[22:23] <cjwatson> just finished assembling a bunk bed for my stepson, and now all my joints hurt
[22:23] <cjwatson> but anyway
[22:24] <munckfish> aha, flat pack or ... ?
[22:24] <cjwatson> originally flat-pack, moved from mother-in-law's house by disassembling and reassembling
[22:24] <munckfish> Ok just a couple of quick questions
[22:25] <munckfish> First is
[22:25] <munckfish> I know the big freeze is approaching
[22:25] <munckfish> what's the score with getting other PS3 related packages in in the next few days? E.g. updating spu libs, docs, ps3 utils etc
[22:25] <munckfish> all things I'd like to see done
[22:26] <munckfish> but juggling work and wife I'm not sure how quick I could get through it
[22:26] <munckfish> ?
[22:27] <cjwatson> munckfish: doable if you hurry
[22:28] <munckfish> right
[22:28] <munckfish> deadline is 10th right?
[22:28] <munckfish> if we miss it would we be stuck with old package versions for hardy's lifetime?
[22:28] <munckfish> or I suppose they'd have to be backports right?
[22:28] <cjwatson> there is some space for exceptions from the 10th to about the 13th or 14th
[22:28] <cjwatson> but it'll be a beg-release-manager kind of thing
[22:29] <munckfish> ok, tomorrow I'll list out what's needed
[22:29] <cjwatson> backports are no use for stuff that has to go on the CD
[22:29] <munckfish> I guessed as much
[22:29] <munckfish> yep
[22:29] <cjwatson> ps3-kboot desperately needs to be prioritised, since it doesn't work at all
[22:29] <cjwatson> and no testing can be done
[22:29] <munckfish> ok I've finished the scripts for it
[22:29] <munckfish> just need to run with pbuilder
[22:30]  * Mez sighs
[22:31] <munckfish> Mez: was the sigh for us?
[22:31] <Mez> no, for opera in feisty
[22:31] <Mez> s/is/si/ :P
[22:32] <munckfish> bit naff is it?
[22:32] <Mez> munckfish, have a look at my post to ubuntu-devel :D
[22:32] <jdong> any hardy 64-bitters who have some free time and boredom on their hands?
[22:33] <jdong> the firefox 3.0~beta5 update brought on a slew of complaints of flash crashing significantly more often
[22:33] <jdong> and the root cause for this still needs some triaging
[22:33] <munckfish> cjwatson: thx for the info, I should get the kboot sources uploaded somewhere for review tomorrow
[22:36] <munckfish> help - I'm getting "WARNING: The following packages cannot be authenticated" from pbuilder's satisfy depends. How do I get the sig key for hardy into my pbuilder env?
[22:41] <crimsun> jdong: first isolate the sound backend in question.
[22:41] <crimsun> jdong: (i.e., if necessary, get PA out of the picture, then continue debugging)
[22:41] <tedg> megabyte405: Hey, are you making the Abiword packages?
[22:43] <megabyte405> tedg: yes I am
[22:43] <megabyte405> megabyte405=Ryan Pavlik=abiryan
[22:44] <tedg> megabyte405: Cool.  They download and install for me now from your PPA.
[22:44] <megabyte405> They did?  Great
[22:44] <megabyte405> which version do you have installed?
[22:44] <megabyte405> (presuming the ppa9 since I seem to have broken the ppa8 with over-eager dependencies)
[22:44] <megabyte405> They've all worked for me, so go figure :)
[22:44] <tedg> megabyte405: I found a couple little things that I want to mention (ppa9), there doesn't seem to be a menu entry in the Applications menu.
[22:45] <megabyte405> really?  OK, will look into that
[22:45] <tedg> megabyte405: And when I go to Collab, it doesn't have any protocols listed.
[22:45] <megabyte405> Ah, yes, that would be because of a dependency error - we can build abicollab but no backends.  If I can't resolve this the way I'd like, I will just disable abicollab
[22:50] <tedg> megabyte405: Heh, we'll I'd hate to loose abicollab, but I understand :)
[22:50] <megabyte405> tedg: OK, I think I fixed the menu bits - I was under the impression that we had the desktop files in the upstream source, but it seems we don't.
[22:50] <megabyte405> tedg: I would too - the trouble is the best back-end has a compile time dependency on libasio-dev, which is just a bunch of header files, but it's in universe
[22:51] <megabyte405> and as I don't want to move abi into universe, I have to work around the issue.  Right now, my approach is patch those headers right into abi
[22:51] <cjwatson> munckfish: ok, cool
[22:51] <tedg> megabyte405: Could there be a "abiword-plugin-collab" package in universe?
[22:52] <cjwatson> munckfish: should be there already; make sure something's done 'apt-get update' in the chroot
[22:52] <munckfish> yeah
[22:52] <munckfish> I think key is ok
[22:52] <cjwatson> munckfish: (ubuntu-keyring is part of ubuntu-minimal, so you can't really be without it)
[22:52] <munckfish> I think the problem is
[22:52] <munckfish> when I update
[22:52] <megabyte405> tedg: well, if the current approach doesn't work and I don't find someone important enough to push libasio-dev into main, in theory :D
[22:52] <munckfish> it bails with
[22:52] <munckfish> elmo: Internal Error, Could not perform immediate configuration (2) on tzdata
[22:53] <munckfish> "E: Internal Error, Could not perform immediate configuration (2) on tzdata"
[22:53] <munckfish> cjwatson: Is tzdata broken maybe, surely not at this stage?
[22:57] <munckfish> that is what I get running the command "sudo pbuilder update --distribution hardy --override-config"
[22:57] <munckfish> :(
[23:02] <keescook> megabyte405: please don't embed duplicated code into a package (especially not one in main, and really especially not for code that has a universe counter-part).
[23:02] <keescook> megabyte405: as part of the FFe for abiword, you'll have to get MIR's approved for the new build-deps that are in universe.
[23:02] <megabyte405> ok
[23:02] <megabyte405> there is only one - please see the bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/abiword/+bug/202174
[23:02] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 202174 in abiword "Please update to version 2.6" [Undecided,New]
[23:03] <cjwatson> munckfish: try pbuilder login and upgrading by hand
[23:04] <munckfish> ok
[23:04] <munckfish> would that be same as
[23:04] <cjwatson> although changes made in login won't be preserved
[23:04] <munckfish> upgrading from gutsy to hardy using just apt?
[23:04] <cjwatson> but it might let you see what's going on
[23:04] <cjwatson> if you're upgrading from gutsy, I would suggest recreating the pbuilder environment from scratch
[23:04] <munckfish> e.g. update sources list to point to hardy, then apt-get dist-upgrade right?
[23:05] <munckfish> well I just
[23:05] <munckfish> created it now
[23:05] <munckfish> especially for hardy
[23:05] <munckfish> but I am running on gutsy
[23:05] <cjwatson> (but, worst case, you can do 'pbuilder --login --save-after-login', I think
[23:05] <cjwatson> )
[23:05] <cjwatson> I don't use pbuilder, so am just going on docs
[23:05] <munckfish> ok I'll see what I can do
[23:05] <munckfish> oh you don't?
[23:05] <munckfish> is there any other way I can side step this
[23:05] <munckfish> ?
[23:05] <munckfish> e.g. if I test it builds on gutsy
[23:05] <cjwatson> not necessarily to be emulated; I keep quite close track of the state of my system and just build in the base environment
[23:05] <munckfish> is that safe enough?
[23:06] <cjwatson> no, that's definitely not a good idea for this
[23:06] <munckfish> so I should persevere
[23:06] <cjwatson> you could install debootstrap from gutsy-backports, 'sudo debootstrap gutsy /path/to/new/chroot', chroot into that and install what you need by hand
[23:06] <tedg> megabyte405: Did you file a MIR for libaiso already?
[23:06] <cjwatson> pbuilder will likely be easier if you can get it to work though
[23:06] <megabyte405> tedg: no, I haven't had a chance.
[23:07] <munckfish> yeah
[23:07] <megabyte405> (this has all transpired within the last 2 days)
[23:07] <munckfish> cjwatson: thx
[23:07] <cjwatson> (really, the reason I don't use pbuilder is that (a) I'm kind of old-school and have never got used to it (b) I used to be quite badly disk-limited on my laptop so tried to minimise extra chroots)
[23:08] <tedg> megabyte405: I realize.  I'll submit one.
[23:08] <megabyte405> tedg: great, that is much appreciated
[23:10] <megabyte405> tedg: I've outlined my basic reasonings on my last (or second to last) comment on that bug - basically, if it's gone through the boost review, and it's good enough for them, that's pretty good, and as the windows maintainer of AbiWord too I'm used to staying current with the upstream anyway, and I know it's well maintained
[23:20] <cjwatson> munckfish: bug 211120?
[23:20] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 211120 in update-manager "hardy upgrade breaks on tzdata" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/211120
[23:21] <munckfish> looking ...
[23:21] <munckfish> hmm I think I'm stuffed then :(
[23:22] <cjwatson> munckfish: don't see why that should affect fresh creation though. How long ago did you create this chroot?
[23:22] <munckfish> 2 hrs ago
[23:22] <munckfish> just recreating it now
[23:22] <cjwatson> oh
[23:22] <munckfish> to see if that helps
[23:23] <cjwatson> well, that blows my first theory out of the water :)
[23:23] <munckfish> first time around I did
[23:23] <munckfish> sudo pbuilder create --debootstrapopts --variant=buildd
[23:23] <munckfish> this time I just did sudo pbuilder create
[23:23] <munckfish> according to
[23:23] <munckfish> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
[23:24] <munckfish> first thing makes my chroot more like a buildd that's why I did that
[23:24] <munckfish> I'm hoping (blindly)
[23:24] <LaserJock> pbuilder uses the buildd variant I believe
[23:24] <munckfish> that doing normal create will make this go away
[23:24] <cjwatson> --variant=buildd should be fairly harmless; tzdata is Priority: required and thus in the buildd variant
[23:24] <munckfish> :(
[23:24] <tedg> megabyte405: So, it seems the asio version in universe is about 6 mo. old.  Have you asked the boost folks to upgrade to 1.35?
[23:25] <cjwatson> also, tzdata hasn't been changed in a while ...
[23:25] <LaserJock> munckfish: you're not able to create a chroot?
[23:25] <munckfish> now running sudo pbuilder update --distribution hardy --override-config again with optimism
[23:25] <megabyte405> tedg: we don't use the one in the new boost yet
[23:25] <LaserJock> rather pbuilder
[23:25] <munckfish> LaserJock: nope
[23:25] <tedg> megabyte405: Are they different?
[23:25] <munckfish> when I run the above command to
[23:25] <cjwatson> LaserJock: his symptoms on update are similar to those in bug 211120
[23:25] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 211120 in update-manager "hardy upgrade breaks on tzdata" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/211120
[23:25] <cjwatson> which suggests a slightly more general problem somewhere
[23:25] <megabyte405> tedg: only superficially - boost::whatever instead of asio::whatever
[23:25] <munckfish> update my pbuilder to hardy
[23:25] <munckfish> it fails
[23:26] <megabyte405> tedg: right now we use the standalone one (can't use the boost-integrated one yet), which had its 1.0.0 "final" release a bit ago
[23:26] <LaserJock> odd
[23:26] <megabyte405> Our devs have brought asio 1.0.0 into fedora and suse already
[23:26] <tedg> megabyte405: Yes, but hardy-universe seems to only have 0.38
[23:26] <megabyte405> although all we technically need is 0.38 rc1 or newer - the hardy-universe one does work
[23:27] <megabyte405> (I know, I have tested it, and I think that's what we're using on Windows too)
[23:27] <munckfish> hmmm now it's stuck on
[23:27] <munckfish> rmdir: /var/cache/pbuilder/build//15790/spu: Device or resource busy
[23:28] <tedg> megabyte405: Yes, but that means there's a published list of problems with it ;)
[23:28] <megabyte405> tedg: true - is that a good thing or a bad thing?
[23:29] <munckfish> hmmm may have solved that by umounting it
[23:29] <tedg> megabyte405: Not sure.
[23:37] <munckfish> good news - it's worked fine now! thx for the help. I rebuilding the pbuilder env from scratch seems to have solved it some how. dunno how.
[23:38] <cjwatson> ok, that's a (partial) relief
[23:38] <megabyte405> ok, a new abiword source package is up on my ppa, should build soon
[23:40] <emgent> geser: ping
[23:41] <munckfish> cjwatson: two other things I should really double check with you to save time
[23:41] <munckfish> 1. is version number - I decided to go with same scheme you and ben did
[23:41] <munckfish> took overall version of upstream release
[23:41] <munckfish> 1.6
[23:41] <munckfish> set as 1.6-1 in our change log
[23:42] <munckfish> I'm still not 100% on the versioning scheme I thought it would have to be 1.6-0ubuntu1
[23:42] <munckfish> is it ok as 1.6-1?
[23:42] <cjwatson> note that the current version doesn't have 'ubuntu' in its version
[23:42] <ScottK> Is it in Debian as 1.6-1?
[23:42] <cjwatson> ScottK: it's not in Debian at all
[23:42] <munckfish> 2. I set the maintainer field to Ubuntu PS3 Port dev list addrss
[23:42] <cjwatson> munckfish: both of those are fine
[23:43] <tedg> keescook: Can you tell me about scunia?  It seems like a bunch of things come up in the search, but they don't mention if it was a library problem or custom code.  Is there some data in the back that they're using that they know it was a library issue?
[23:43] <munckfish> cjwatson: pheweee
[23:43] <ScottK> cjwatson: I thought we normally used -0ubuntu1 even for those.  We certainly do when reviewing new packages for Universe.
[23:44] <cjwatson> ScottK: it's fine to do so, but not strictly required
[23:44] <cjwatson> ScottK: and in any case it's clearly OK to follow the existing scheme
[23:44] <ScottK> Fair enough.
[23:44] <keescook> tedg: secunia?  they're a security advisory clearing house, basically.
[23:45] <cjwatson> ScottK: there are cases where universe's policies are a bit overkill IMO; the diffstat requirement is an example I was wittering about elsewhere earlier today
[23:45] <tedg> But, when I do a search, are they showing me all the data?  Or is some hidden?
[23:45] <keescook> tedg: searching advisories can be a bit opaque.  Generally, it's all there.
[23:46] <megabyte405> tedg: ok, in about 15 minutes there should be an updated binary package ready in my ppa, please update and let me know if it fixes your issue
[23:46] <ScottK> cjwatson: For FFe's a lot of it depends on who's asking.  If you look in the approved ones, a lot of them don't actually have all the bits filled out.
[23:46] <tedg> keescook: Okay, I'm searching for "asio" which is fairly generic, and I'm getting a bunch of "this devices is broken."  Which, in theory could be because of the library, but doesn't say so.  I'm guessing that they're just picking up the generic text.
[23:46] <tedg> megabyte405: Great!
[23:46] <ScottK> The documented requirements are meant for some of our less experienced contributors IMO.
[23:47] <megabyte405> tedg: if you need my input for the MIR, just email me abiryan ryand net.  I have some work to finish here now, so I'll be paying less attention then going to bed, but I'll be back on it tomorrow when I have free time, just like today
[23:47] <keescook> tedg: right, I tend to search using upstream names, and common packaging names (libasio, asio-devel, etc)
[23:47] <cjwatson> ScottK: the problem is that diffstat is totally useless for any serious review.
[23:47] <keescook> tedg: also, I find cve.mitre.org tends to have fewer false positives.
[23:48] <cjwatson> ScottK: the only purpose I see in it is to present an appearance of a serious review. There's no way it can actually be used for a meaningful assessment.
[23:48] <cjwatson> and telling less experienced contributors that it's required (and therefore, implicitly, that it's useful) is mis-educating them
[23:48] <ScottK> I can see that.
[23:49] <ScottK> Perhaps we ought to review how we do this at UDS and come up with more sensible requirements for Intrepid.
[23:49] <cjwatson> certainly I understand the "depends who's asking" thing
[23:49] <cjwatson> I think basically I'd like the process to contain no elements that I'm embarrassed to describe to others ;-)
[23:50] <tedg> keescook: Cool, I explained all that in the MIR :)
[23:55] <munckfish> cjwatson: huh this kboot takes so long to build, I can see why you and ben gave up on it :D
[23:58] <ScottK> cjwatson: That sounds like a good criteria.
[23:58] <Caesar> cjwatson: I just became aware that the alternate installer (in /usr/lib/finish-install.d/55netcfg) cleans out /etc/network/interfaces to pave the way for NetworkManager after the installation. Is there no way to opt out of this?