[01:39] grep for #ubuntu-cn in #ubuntu... not sure what's going on with icesword and that. [04:26] Hello Ubuntu ops and children. [04:27] what a premise. You should refrain from being so antagonistic, if you want to get something done for you. [04:29] I would like to say that I am extremely disappointed in your decision to welcome back the IRSeek corporation to record everyone who would like to participate in #ubuntu and publish it on their website for a profit. [04:30] After IRSeek was caught spying on channels against Freenode policy. And after it was k-lined, it seemed there was hope that this stain could be removed and some good will could be restored. [04:31] To the best of my knowledge it is not common for individuals who are k-lined to be welcomed back so easily. Why does IRSeekBot get special treatment? [04:31] Your views, as before, have been recorded. Unfortunately for you, people have chosen not to move in the way that you wish. The kline was because it was not operating correctly (excess flooding), and had nothing to do with policy. [04:32] This is a situation where Ubuntu gets absolutely nothing - No added value what so ever - from the IRSeekBot sitting there and antagonising a good many users. === nixternal_ is now known as nixternal [04:32] The simplest possible argument for getting rid of it is that it is frankly just impolite. [04:32] Given the fact that IRSeekBot adds nothing, but hurts some. There is only one rational thing that a community who talks about being welcoming should do. [04:32] People who get klined for bad connections often get it removed when they have sent an email saying that they have fixed their connection, as klining them is more efficient than banning them from all their channels. Again, this is about people without bad connections (which does happen), not about people who have abused the network. Those who have abused the network don't get let in so easily, you are correct. [04:33] I enjoyed the time it was gone, and did my small best to be helpful while it was gone. I hope that eventually wisdom will prevail. [04:33] IRSeek has already abused the network since it was originally breaking the MOTD by logging without anyone knowing it. [04:33] However, the decision has been made, and you repeating your previous objections will not be helpful. If you continue to do so, I must ask you to leave. [04:35] emma: Freenode staff clearly made the decision to let it back in. If you disagree with their decision, you should really take it up with them. However, they are very likely to, as we have done, tell you that they will not revise their decision. [04:35] IRSeekBot adds nothing. Gives nothing. Contributes nothing that is not already available. All that it does is inflame and alienate. I am not in some small minority in feeling this way. Of those who know it exists, a majority finds it useless or at least impolite. [04:35] If people are not willing to revise their decision in light of reason then that calls into question what the motives really are. Goodnight. [04:35] emma: Again, this is repeating your previous objections. I must now ask you to leave. [04:36] No I'm going to have to ask you to leave my screen. [04:36] --> part [04:36] hmmm [04:36] I can make this channel leave her screen. No problems there. [04:36] werd [04:36] that's one way to do it. [04:40] gahh [06:05] Let the record show I left on my own free will. Goodnight. [06:07] strange. emma has left this channel (requested by Hobbsee: " Goodbye, then.") [06:07] unsure of how tha'ts her own free will [06:07] she joined, then parted. Free will I guess [06:07] oh, so it's free will that she can still join. got it. === Jucato_ is now known as Jucato [06:26] hello [06:26] anyone here willing to help? [06:27] Fr|0z3n: you need to change your ident [06:27] ok [06:28] how do I change it? [06:28] Fr|0z3n: which client are you using? [06:29] mIRC 6.16 [06:29] Fr|0z3n: Im not familiar with mirc, but I imagine its in the settings there somewhere. [06:30] what do u want me to put in the ident thing? [06:30] blank or something? [06:30] something not profane ;) [06:30] yes :) [06:30] ok [06:36] Remove me from ban on #ubuntu, i need some help. [06:37] why? [06:37] did you try forums / other online resources? [06:38] Didn't I make that clear? [06:38] You should refrain from being so antagonistic, if you want to get something done for you. [06:38] I said I need some help [06:38] s/antagonistic/demanding/ perhpas. [06:38] Respect is earned, not a given. So earn it. [06:39] ah, thanks. [06:40] what on earth? [06:40] REMOVE MY BAN NOW! I NEED HELP! [06:40] jdong: yes.... [06:40] * jdong gives up trying to understand the world... [06:41] jdong that's normal. Real courtesy is rare, in my experience [06:41] jdong: this is a special case, too. [06:41] heh [06:42] funny thing is, kahrytan has previously said that i'm the only op who was in -offtopic who he actually respected. [06:42] so, go figure. [06:42] FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit) [06:43] klined [06:46] nalioth: er, wasn't kahrytan klined too? [06:48] he was, once [06:48] why is he back? [06:50] kkines are not eternal [06:50] you should have enjoyed the quiet time [06:51] i did. But i'm not exactly enjoying what he's sending me now that he is back, either. [08:39] Hobbsee: freenode seems to be very troll-friendly nowadays. Quickly expiring k-lines and refusing to kill spammers [08:39] not good, not good at all [08:39] Seveas, i know :( [08:40] Seveas: yeah, i hate to say it, but all this has been quite illuminating. [08:40] Seveas: you forgot about the threats, too [08:40] Shall we just move ubuntu to oftc? [08:41] Seveas: do you know if they're any better? [08:41] Seveas, since it worked so well for Debian? [08:41] Hobbsee, it can't be worse [08:41] Seveas, yeah, it can be actually. [08:41] Seveas: yes it can. [08:41] enlighten me :) [08:42] Seveas: they still kline people who run exploits in the channel, etc. [08:42] they don't [08:42] had to ban one a few hours ago, no k-line [08:42] i thought nalioth said he klined that one [08:43] maybe after a nice long delay to allow more abuse [08:43] Seveas, nalioth cant be around 24/7, the same as we cant [08:43] nalioth isn't the only staffer [08:44] and you're not the only ubuntu op [08:44] Seveas: the "klined" in here was a min after the floodbots complained about the exploit? did it not work? [08:44] fortunately not, we need more ops to cope with all the freenode sloppyness [08:45] Seveas, we are gradually accumulating the people who prove trustworthy [08:45] Seveas: at some point, ops do not become effective, and you actually need network staffers for network-wide things. This is the problem. [08:45] the exploit I was talking about was a few hours ago, not the most recent one [08:46] oh, i did'nt see that. granted. [08:46] we can nuke people in our space, but we can't do it for other projects, etc. [08:46] Hobbsee, I know. network staff is proving to be more unreliable nowadays [08:46] is it fair that they have to get all the evidence for their spaces together, and it's not shared at all? [08:46] Seveas: how does debian find oftc? [08:46] even ubotu's host is more reliable, which is not a compliment at all ;) [08:47] hehe [08:48] Hobbsee, to be honest: no idea. Last time I checked #debian on oftc was about as big as over here iirc [08:48] wow, /stats p there is certainly different. [08:48] as in, there are actually people listed? [08:49] yep [08:49] nice [08:49] Seveas: 15 names, and [17:47] [249] p 21 OPER(s) [08:49] wish we had that over here [08:49] unsure how that translates into names, though [08:49] Seveas, however, i do remind you that most of #debian stayed on freenode when they moved to oftc [08:50] elkbuntu: presumably most people are using irc.ubuntu.com to connect, as its' the default. [08:51] then again, with the state that #ubuntu is, maybe a split channel wouldn't be so bad :) [08:51] elkbuntu, I know. But many moved over time [08:51] Seveas, do we really want to wait for that? [08:52] elkbuntu, it'd suck but its better than being on a network with staff that's too troll-friendly [08:52] elkbuntu: what's the least worse evil? [08:52] Hobbsee, im really not sure [08:53] Hobbsee: most networks list _all_ staff on /stats p [08:53] Hobbsee: they may be /away for weeks and still be listed there [08:54] nalioth: right. [08:54] so, it's worth checking it out further [08:55] nalioth: got anything to say about the rest of it? [08:55] i can't be here 24/7 [08:55] obviously. [08:55] and we've recently made changes to the way things work that negates my triggers [08:55] nalioth, something really does have to be done on one front or the other -- freenode is obstructive, it's simple as that [08:57] currently we are unable to provide a safe place for our users, [08:57] trolls like emma and kahrytan simply get way too much freedom here [08:58] elkbuntu: there is no 'safe place' [08:58] and serial spammers aren't stopped by staff either [08:58] nalioth, well s/a safe place/as safe a place as possible/ [08:58] nalioth, but having staff do something about problems helps. [08:58] but they just hide their hads in the sand. [08:58] currently the possibilities exist, but are not used. [09:01] silence as usual, how not suprising and how disappointing [09:01] and it is damaging to ubuntu when we plead for help in keeping our channels as clean as is sanely possible and get ignored on technicalities [09:03] bah, I'm out. got better things to do than getting ever more frustrated in here [09:03] work's calling [09:04] elkbuntu: so, ignore freenode staff restrictions, and act as chanops anyway, until we find a better solution? [09:05] elkbuntu: and ignore the alternatives :P [09:17] * jpatrick finally get a new connect to find: "Irssi: 42 new messages in awaylog" [09:21] heh [09:41] Hello Seveas and nalioth [09:41] emma: howdy [09:42] Seveas - Is it being a troll to constantly inflame someone else? [09:44] emma: what is your point? [09:45] My point is that this channel is full of people who talk about 'codes of conduct' and 'trolls' when they are more guilty than I could be in two life times. [09:45] And it is all going on in this self same channel. [09:45] * Hobbsee waits for proof, instead of mere allegations. [09:46] I wish for all of you to look up the concept of 'group-think'. I believe a great many of the people in here are suffering from it. [09:46] emma: again, please bring actual proof, instead of mere allegations. [09:46] This channel seems to shelter all of you and start to make you think that you are above others, or that everyone who is part of this 'team' does no wrong, and anyone who disagrees or points out flaws is a 'troll'. [09:47] third request. [09:47] When you sit in here and slag people what do you think you are going to accomplish? [09:49] 08:57 Seveas trolls like emma and kahrytan simply get way too much freedom here [09:50] 13:59 Seveas Hobbsee, emma does need an XXXXL tinfoil hat it seems :) [09:51] 21:44 Seveas jpatrick, tell her you had to perform sexual activites with some of the operators [09:51] emma: 'tis true :( [09:54] Who is the troll Mr. Ubuntu Leader? -- http://www.ubuntu.com/community/leadership-conduct [09:57] thoreauputic: when did you get promoted? [09:57] ? [09:58] I wasn't aware that I had been promoted :) [09:58] thoreauputic: you were asked a question [10:00] thoreauputic: we're waiting, Mr. Ubuntu Leader. [10:00] nalioth: you've lost me again... [10:01] How am I in nay sense an Ubuntu Leader ? [10:01] *any [10:01] thoreauputic: i guess your client joined after that message arrived [10:01] i saw the message arrive after you did [10:02] nalioth: ah no - I see it now :) [10:02] unop_ called the ops in #ubuntu () [10:03] ubotu: tell hackerlittle about privacy [10:52] nalioth, the unaffil one too? [11:00] emma called the ops in #ubuntu () [11:00] eh? [11:01] !tell gofree about msgthebot [11:01] Mez: I'm sure he just "didn't know" [11:01] jpatrick, hence a remove and factoid, not a kickban [11:02] * jpatrick actually !msgthebot'ed him in teh channel but... [11:02] oh, crap [11:02] * Mez didnt notice that [11:21] This needs to be written in to the log: [11:21] ChanServ gives channel operator status to elkbuntu [11:21] * You have left channel #ubuntu-ops (requested by elkbuntu: "please get your facts straight before wasting our time") [11:21] * Cannot join #ubuntu-ops (You are banned). [11:21] Because you do not log the bans or the ban messages. [11:25] I am going to go to sleep now but I want you all to seriously think about how you can be antagonistic and the way you speak to people, and the things you say about people, those things matter. If you scroll up you will see I posted a link to the Ubuntu Code of Conduct for leaders. Take a look at it some time. [11:25] (is now leaving on my own free will) [11:26] that part message.... [11:27] PriceChild: yeah, she does that in most channels. [11:28] She said she would change it from something like "Please PM me" [11:28] she lied. again. [11:28] does this surprise you? [11:28] Is that part message really a problem? [11:28] she didn't lie [11:28] Daviey: it is ridiculously cheeky [11:28] true [11:28] PriceChild: see the part about power tripping ops, too. [11:28] We do log the bans. :) [11:28] jussio1: we do indeed [11:28] I'm going to have another chat with her. [11:29] At this point, the only future I can see for her is a permaban, until sh elearns better. [11:29] Will catch from irclogs. first. [11:29] in between the spam, and the threats, i really don't see many other possibilities. [11:31] at this point, i'm also inclined to believe that she will *not* learn better, as she does not appear to grasp that a threat is still a threat, whether it refers to the person calling it a threat or not. [11:32] If she cannot grasp that, i fear that she will grasp little else of what she's being told. [11:33] anyway, dinner time. [11:34] * jpatrick pushs PriceChild's rt ticket about logging kicks to the canonical people [11:35] I just think we need to be careful and not pick her up on pedantic things - otherwise they won't stick :( [11:35] wow kahrytan came back again this morning too? [11:35] hmm... I cant view that ticket in RT [11:36] Mez: #608 [11:36] I just keep getting asked to login [11:37] wow there's actually a ticket in there?! [11:37] Mez: ubuntu:ubuntu [11:37] Mez: ubuntu/ubuntu [11:37] hehe... [11:37] * Mez doesnt know [11:37] PriceChild: yeah, it's Monday lunch time, let's see what they say [11:37] jpatrick: how long has it been there? [11:38] PriceChild: Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 00:04:48 +0000 [11:39] I've been waiting for canonical to punch an outbound hole in one of their servers for over a month now.. :( [11:39] PriceChild: "< Ng> jpatrick: it's entirely possible that done to reduce the size of the logs, but I don't have any context to back up that hypothesis" [11:40] PriceChild: it's in #canonical-sysadmin if you want [11:40] gah, then they would .gz them.. i suspect it's the logger just isn't set to log them [11:41] grrr irclogs. isn't up to date with latest emma [11:41] it updates hourly at the o'clock [11:41] Daviey, you want an outbound hole for what? [11:42] Mez: to connect to an outside service :) [11:42] (rsync) [11:42] Daviey, tsk tsk... so that you can get random code onto their servers ? [11:43] anymore or less than scp/wget? [11:44] * Mez shrugs :P [11:45] * jpatrick goes home - later [12:36] PriceChild: ping [12:38] Hobbsee: pong [12:39] PriceChild: see /query [12:58] jdong: ping? === seanw is now known as sean === sean is now known as seanw [17:43] good to see the bots info function is now working :) [17:44] yes. [17:55] @btlogin [17:55] j #ubuntu-ops-pvt [17:56] ... [17:56] that was...odd [17:57] pricey is an odd duck [17:57] * Seeker` wonders why it is taking so long for the bantracker to load [18:00] it always does? [18:01] not usually that long [18:19] Pici, I heard that [18:19] Pricey: no you didnt. [18:22] lo Pricey [18:23] allo Seeker` [20:32] In ubotu, jimcooncat_ said: jimcooncat is great [20:32] oops [20:32] :) [20:33] jimcooncat_: its ok, happens quite often :) [20:33] you saw I was playing with ubotu, huh? [20:33] yeah [20:34] jimcooncat_: dont worry about it. anything else we can help with? [20:38] no, curiousity has been satisfied thanks [20:38] jimcooncat_: ok, great :) [20:38] !idle | jimcooncat_ [20:39] jimcooncat_: Please keep in mind that this channel is for operator/abuse questions only, and we ask you to part when you have no further business here, in order to keep track of users with pending inquiries. [20:57] blippe, how can we help you? [20:58] Pici, PriceChild, can you id blippe ? [20:59] Never heard of him [20:59] nein. [20:59] hmm [20:59] can we get a bot to ask people to state their case on arrival? [21:00] if they don't answer [21:00] nothing [21:00] if they do answer [21:00] nothing [21:00] Could put that in the chanserv entry message... but who reads things like that? [21:00] not me. [21:00] no one [21:00] so you got to make it in the channe; [21:00] channel [21:00] 9 times out of 10, theres someone here. [21:00] Pici, we are getting random idlers [21:01] we always have. [21:02] just getting a little more "formal" about them [21:02] ;-0 [21:02] ) was the intended key [22:19] Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen. [22:20] Allo emma, how can I help you this evening? [22:20] I would like all of the Ubuntu ops to read this link --- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_think [22:21] Pay close attention to the list of symptoms. You may think I'm being provocative but in fact I am trying to be helpful. [22:22] Also the list of causes is informative. Thanks that's really all. [22:22] Ok then, have a good evening :) [22:22] Will there be anything else? [22:22] No. [22:22] (Leaves on her own free will) [22:22] hmm? [22:23] hehehehehehehehehehehehehe [22:23] That part message really gets my goat. [22:23] not here [22:23] it is at its most pointless here [22:23] I had a talk with emma about group think once already [22:24] I think the "(Leaves on her own free will)" is to prove she wasn't kicked or something [22:24] na it is to get the part message in there [22:25] work it out [22:25] do the math [22:25] see the symptoms [22:26] Hobbsee asked her to leave (yesterday?) and emma said no, you leave my screen (paraphrased) and hobbsee kicked her. [22:26] proximate cause, anyway [22:27] IMHO, someone should mention to emma that, as logged as this channel is, it's still "our" channel to freely exchange "our" opinions among ourselves [22:27] that was an insult - it was all i could do to say nothing [22:28] I was going to give a reply but it might not have been friendly ;-) [22:28] it should be kept in mind that we should be friendly when dealing with people coming here with complains [22:29] *but* we should be free to exchange opinions among each other in an open manner [22:29] does anyone here idle in -uncensored? [22:29] no, I have better things to do with my time myself [22:29] this channel is not logged so that every single word we say *among ourselves* can be somehow turned against us [22:29] it's merely logged for openness. [22:30] lets hear it for SUNSHINE !! :) [22:30] cheer cheer cheer [22:33] LjL: shame it seems to be used against us then :p [22:34] * ompaul uses Gary against Gary [22:34] in #ubuntu-ops, Gary uses YOU [22:34] Gary: yes... i think that people reading the logs of this channel should mentally add a "the following is my personal, possibly unsubstantiated opinion, which i share with other ops as they might want to consider it" [22:35] jdong, nearly right [22:35] which is, well, what the purpose of an ops channel is, after all [22:35] in #ubuntu-ops Gary represses you [22:35] if i want to actually go "officially" on the record saying something, i don't do that by saying it here [22:36] LjL: agreed, ompaul jdong :p [22:36] ompaul: not just in -ops [22:36] i thought gary was the one being repressed [22:36] Gary, the represser [22:37] !offtopic | all :) [22:37] all :): #ubuntu is the Ubuntu support channel, #ubuntu+1 supports the development version of Ubuntu and #ubuntu-offtopic is for random chatter. Welcome! [22:37] more like Gary the repressed, help help, I'm being repressed! :p [22:37] and where's the place where i kick you? [22:37] cool, a conjoined emoticon! [22:37] !gary [22:37] Gary is as Gary does, on the other hand four fingers and a thumb! [22:38] I hate that, it must have been written by an irishman [22:38] translates into proper english really badly :p [22:38] and jdong, i'm glad for both of you that gary uses you, but it kind of falls in the realm of !overshare [22:39] lol [22:39] hahahah [22:39] LjL: well... reduce reuse recycle! [22:41] jdong: yes. reduce everything jdong says into a misquote that can be used against him; reuse other people's misquotes as if they were real quotes; recycle old quotes against him again, nobody will remember anyway [22:41] :) [22:42] * Mez joins the "bash jdong" group [22:42] oooh, ooh, me also :D [22:43] * Seeker` prefers the zsh jdong group [22:43] Seeker`, good point [22:43] /exec sudo apt-get install zsh-beta [22:43] o_O [22:44] !jdong | this factoid needs updating for hardy [22:44] this factoid needs updating for hardy: jdong: yes, but you're FULL OF CRACK! [22:45] ompaul: you have a suggestion for an update? [22:45] you can never find Pici when you need him [22:45] !mez [22:45] Sorry, I don't know anything about mez - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi [22:45] woo [22:45] Pici, get a new jdong factoid together [22:45] please ;-) [22:45] !ompaul [22:45] ompaul is well ompaul, don't get me started about that guy [22:45] * jussi01 goes to add a mez factoid... [22:45] * Mez is deemed unimportant [22:46] !hobbsee | Mez [22:46] Mez: I phear the stick so shhhhh [22:46] by no less a person than Mez hisself [22:46] !seeker` [22:46] Sorry, I don't know anything about seeker` - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi [22:46] :'( [22:46] ompaul, ? [22:46] there is no seeker [22:46] * Mez is deemed unimportant by no less a person than Mez hisself [22:46] !search seeker [22:46] Found: ops-#ubuntu-uk [22:46] Mez, now dies it work [22:46] does even [22:47] ompaul, excuse me, I'm lacking a brain of late [22:47] Mez, say less it will get you more ;-) [22:47] ompaul, excuse ... [22:48] Mez, you are getting clue for the lack of brain [22:48] ompaul, I know. [22:48] * Mez has a lack of brain due a whole raft of reasons (hehe - raft) [22:49] mainly due to being ill and tired [22:49] Mez, as you wish [22:49] ahh [22:49] that ain't so good [22:49] nope, never is, but whatcha gonna do [22:50] (apart from infect the rest of the devs at work hehe!) [22:52] I think passing on a cold is not really in line with good human relationships [22:53] depends on how you pass it on [22:53] hey - it's close quarters - they've infected me enough times [22:53] and lol @ mneptok yeah - I think what your thinking might be how i got it [22:53] wtf? [22:53] hahahah [22:54] hehehehehehehehe [22:54] * Mez slaps himself for using the words "horizontal scalability" WRT ubotu [22:54] * Mez needs to get off the crackwagon [22:54] i'd slap yourself for using them about anything [22:55] LjL, why? horizontal scalability is GOOD [22:55] you need to hit the person who thought you that phrase [22:55] i don't want to know [22:55] Buzzword Bingo [22:55] worse [22:55] ompaul, - his nick on here is ScottMac [22:55] Buzzword Scrabble that has to be a 40 [22:55] LjL, it was due to a re-org of our servers [22:56] leave shelf 2 spare? [22:56] yeah we need it for HS [22:56] ompaul, nah, make it so if we go overloaded, we can just plug in a new server [22:57] if you go overloaded install new rack and do the networking [22:57] * ompaul needs a new rack [22:57] ompaul, install new rack? get new servers? migrate everything to new servers? [22:58] nah - horizontal is better... means we just plug something in, instead of havign to do loadsa crap [22:58] * ompaul fails to grok the difference [22:58] depends on the comms room I guess [22:59] ompaul, simply, when you have quad core servers, colocated in a datacentre the otehr side of the world, that are crammed to the max, and are still hitting the highest load [22:59] you DONT have a vertical upgrade path [22:59] Mez, ahh that would be the cramp your style list [23:00]