[11:06] <ubotu> New bug: #214518 in ubuntu-docs (main) "ubuntu-docs: about-ubuntu / string 19 / translated string does not show up in help documentation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/214518
[16:28] <nixternal> doing translations suck!
[16:30] <LaserJock> :-)
[18:46] <nixternal> mdke: did you have any translations that didn't validate? I just ran validation on the kubuntu ones and supposedly all of them validated
[18:47] <nixternal> kind of hard for me to believe after my experiences the past 2 years
[19:01] <nixternal> ahh, nevermind, a booboo in my script :)
[20:27] <mdke> nixternal: yeah, loads
[20:31] <mdke> nixternal: I have some ideas about improving the translation import experience
[20:32] <mdke> nixternal: but I've just realised I haven't got time before dinner to explain them, so I'll do it later! :)
[20:32] <nixternal> I have them all fixed now for Kubuntu docs
[20:33] <nixternal> mdke: I was thinking about writing a new translation script in python that would automate a lot of stuff, but fixing the imported translations would be the toughest to script
[21:07] <mdke> nixternal: I don't think translation fixage is possible automatically
[21:08] <mdke> nixternal: however, carlos is talking about implementing some syntax highlighting or tag validity checking in rosetta for that
[21:09] <mdke> nixternal: for now there is something we can do
[21:10] <mdke> nixternal: if you fix the translation directly in the po file, rather than the xml file, then it can be uploaded to rosetta to ensure:
[21:10] <mdke> (a) that if you need to download translations later on (like for an update) it will be fixed
[21:10] <mdke> and (b), that you won't get the same error repeating itself over multiple releases: for the next release it will be fixed
[21:13] <nixternal> is there a way to validate po files at all?
[21:14] <mdke> nixternal: using translate.sh :)
[21:14] <nixternal> there wasn't all that much breakage this time around
[21:14] <nixternal> but fixing some of the breakage is tough due to not knowing the language
[21:15] <mophead> sweet
[21:15] <mdke> nixternal: i generally find it's all tag breakage rather than language
[21:16] <mdke> nixternal: anyhow, if you want to upload any po files to rosetta, you need to update the PO-Revision-Date in the header, that should be sufficient.
[21:16] <nixternal> ya, it is all tag breakage here as well
[21:16] <mdke> doing everything in the po file is a good idea because that way we can build the xml at deb build time as I've done for the intrepid branch
[21:16] <mdke> slims down the package a lot
[21:17] <mophead> Hello all.  I'm new.
[21:17] <nixternal> nice
[21:17] <nixternal> howdy mophead
[21:17] <mdke> hi mophead, welcome aboard
[21:17] <mophead> Have you been hearing the talk about making a more accessible documentation?
[21:17] <mophead> Howdy, yourself! :)
[21:17] <nixternal> more accessible as inputting it into peoples brains?
[21:17] <mdke> what do you mean by accessible? and what talk?
[21:18] <nixternal> man, I nixed common/ and bzr revert will not revert it :)
[21:18] <mophead> This kind of talk http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/item/5580/ about making the text more accessible for people who are a little less tech savvy
[21:18] <mophead> In ubuntu speak, "human beings."
[21:18] <mdke> that post is about the release notes
[21:19] <mophead> There's also 6662, which I wrote
[21:19] <mdke> sounds sensible, I agree. that's something for the marketing team really though, I think
[21:19] <mdke> the docteam doesn't really work on the release notes
[21:19] <mophead> ok.  But take a look at idea 6662
[21:20] <mophead> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/item/6662/
[21:20] <mdke> mophead: you refer again to the release notes, but I think you're really thinking of the desktop help system
[21:20] <mdke> mophead: we take care of the desktop help system, and would certainly be interested in any concrete suggestions for improving it
[21:21] <mophead> Awesome.
[21:21] <mdke> mophead: we've worked quite a lot over the last year or two on making it understandable for all users
[21:22] <mophead> cool.  The first thing that I noticed is that, under troubleshooting, the help says "if x, then do y", but never says what to do if not x.
[21:22] <mdke> troubleshooting in which section?
[21:22] <mophead> It was the wifi card section on connecting to the internet
[21:23] <mdke> yeah, that section needs a lot of improvement. We have a bug report about it, I think
[21:23] <mophead> Really?  Wow.  I wouldn't go so far as to file a bug report
[21:24] <mdke> yeah, bug reports are essential for us to trace issues
[21:24] <mophead> I will definitely volunteer to proofread help files for readability
[21:24] <mdke> mophead: that would be helpful; you can file a bug report for each issue you find and we'll fix it; or even start submitting some fixes of your own
[21:24] <hypa7ia> mophead: i can show you how to do bug reporting on tuesday
[21:24] <hypa7ia> it's not hard at all
[21:25] <mdke> mophead: have a look at the pages under https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/ for info on our processes
[21:25] <mdke> mophead: and tell us about any issues on those pages too :)
[21:25] <hypa7ia> mophead: this is leigh btw :)
[21:25] <mdke> hypa7ia: heya!
[21:25] <mophead> yes, I know!
[21:25] <hypa7ia> mdke: hi?
[21:25] <hypa7ia> mophead: ok good :)
[21:26] <mdke> hypa7ia: sorry, perhaps you are a different hypatia
[21:26] <mdke> https://edge.launchpad.net/~hypatia
[21:26] <mophead> I can start crawling through the documentation wiki.
[21:26] <mophead> But the thing is, I recognize there is also a need for technical documentation.
[21:27] <mdke> mophead: technical documentation can be written in a way that is easy to understand too; our aim is that any user can use our help
[21:27] <hypa7ia> mdke: yup, i'm the other one :) https://edge.launchpad.net/~hypa7ia
[21:27] <mdke> my bad
[21:27] <hypa7ia> no worries
[21:28] <mophead> mdke: that's the trick, yeah.  I guess that's what I'm volunteering for
[21:31] <mophead> I'm glad that it's something that is on your radar though
[21:31] <mophead> hypa7ia, if you could guide me, that wou ld be a big help
[21:32] <mdke> mophead: sure
[21:42] <hypa7ia> mophead: remind me on tuesday and we'll go over it :)
[21:43] <mophead> sweet
[21:48] <hypa7ia> :D
[21:48] <hypa7ia> LINUX PARTY
[21:53] <mophead> :D
[21:54] <nixternal> No localization exists for "config_desktop-ku" or "config". Using default "en".
[21:55] <nixternal> mdke: ^^
[21:55] <nixternal> don't get why it is doing the "config_desktop-ku"
[21:55] <nixternal> in the past it would have just been "ku"
[21:55] <nixternal> oh man
[21:55] <nixternal> derr on me
[21:55]  * nixternal needs to fix the xml files for the correct lang
[21:55] <nixternal> argh argh argh argh!
[22:02] <mophead> I'm still not entirely sure how I want to do it
[22:02] <mophead> But I know I'm a good reader!
[22:05] <mdke> nixternal: is that because you changed something inside the xml? Maybe you changed the value of &language;?
[22:05] <nixternal> I didn't change it manually, it was changed with the pot files
[22:05] <nixternal> po files rather
[22:07] <mdke> nixternal: erm, that's very odd indeed
[22:08] <nixternal> it happened in Gutsy as well, I remember fixing it
[22:08] <nixternal> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/13283459/launchpad-export.tar.gz
[22:08] <nixternal> there is the kubuntu-docs translations...take a look and see how weird it is
[22:08] <mdke> nixternal: no problem to report in ubuntu-docs like that
[22:11] <mdke> it's all language="en" as per the original
[22:13] <nixternal> <article id="about-kubuntu" status="complete" lang="about-kubuntu-cy">
[22:13] <nixternal> those get added to all of the translated .xml files
[22:14] <nixternal> about-kubuntu-cy.po
[22:14] <nixternal> and that is how the files look from the translation tarball
[22:15] <mdke> do you rename to po files to cy.po before you use the translate script
[22:15] <mdke> to/the
[22:16] <LaserJock> yeah <lang>.po is expected
[22:16] <nixternal> ya
[22:16] <nixternal> I forgot to change them first
[22:17] <mdke> ah, that's why. are you using the same translate.sh as ubuntu?
[22:17] <nixternal> ya
[22:17] <nixternal> I will write a quick script to fix that
[22:17] <nixternal> how do you check out a bzr branch? ie. what is the best way? I have to re-checkout the kubuntu-hardy branch
[22:18] <mdke> see hack.sh for the rename
[22:18] <mdke> nixternal: well, "bzr branch url" is the usual way. Some tips are on wiki.u.c/DocumentationTeam/Repository for speeding things up
[22:18] <nixternal> ya, looking there as well as the bzr bind docs
[22:19] <mdke> bzr bind doesn't help you with checking a branch out
[22:21] <nixternal> alright, branch downloading...that should take a week or so :)
[22:21] <nixternal> I need to go put this desk together while that goes
[22:21] <nixternal> bbiab
[22:22] <mdke> nixternal: if you have the ubuntu-docs branch already in a shared repo, getting kubuntu-docs in the same repo will only take a few minutes
[22:25] <LaserJock> nixternal: I have some scripts in edubuntu-hardy too for tranlsation stuff
[22:38] <mdke> man there are insane amounts of errors in ubuntu-docs this time round :(
[22:38] <mdke> this will take a while
[22:45] <nixternal> I don't want to put this desk together
[22:45] <nixternal> I wish I knew magic
[22:46] <mdke> flat packs rock
[22:46] <nixternal> my goal for Intrepid, is make it much easier to do translations
[22:48] <mdke> there is no way around it, except if rosetta implements syntax highlighting or checking for translators at the source
[22:48] <nixternal> I am talking the importing stuff :)
[22:48] <mdke> and uploading corrected po files, I think that will help
[22:48] <nixternal> the validation portion is easy enough to fix, just tedious and time consuming
[22:48] <mdke> nixternal: well, that is already pretty straightforward, to be honest. The renaming bit is just a bug in rosetta
[22:48] <nixternal> ahhh
[22:48] <mdke> everything else is done in translate.sh automatically
[22:49] <nixternal> so lets beat up the rosetta people in getting stuff fixed :)
[22:49] <mdke> well, it's not hard to do the rename thing either :)
[22:49] <nixternal> ya, but I am lazy and forgetful obviously
[22:49] <mdke> but I'll certainly pursue this syntax highlighting/checking idea, it sounds awesome
[22:50] <nixternal> but, unlike some people, I haven't forgotten my svn password or lost my ssh key :)
[22:50] <mdke> it's only a matter of time
[22:50] <mdke> it's the kubuntu way
[22:50] <nixternal> haha
[22:50] <nixternal> ooh
[23:13] <sommer> mdke: should I commit that spelling fix patch, for the serverguide?
[23:15] <mdke> sommer: yes, go ahead. thanks
[23:15] <sommer> mdke: cool, will do. thank you
[23:16] <mdke> sommer: also to the intrepid branch if you don't mind
[23:16] <mdke> otherwise I'll do that bit
[23:16] <sommer> yep, I'll apply it there as well
[23:17] <mdke> great
[23:17] <mdke> cheers
[23:20] <mdke> ok, here goes with the supercommit
[23:24]  * mdke signs off for the night