[00:01] hello === Andres_ is now known as RoAkSoAx [00:02] here for the marketing team meeting? [00:02] yeah [00:02] awesome, anyone else arrived yet? we'll wait a few more minutes [00:02] haven't been involved before so i may not say much... [00:03] no problem, but please don't hold back if you ever have an idea [00:04] how did you hear about this meeting? [00:05] basically i googled "ubuntu marketing" [00:05] oh haha cool [00:05] are you already involved in a LoCo? [00:06] well there's only one for the entire contry of australia that i know if [00:06] *pf [00:06] *of [00:07] are you in it? [00:09] yeah [00:11] cool [00:11] i have no idea where everyone is. a reminder was sent out and everything [00:14] I am here [00:15] ah, great [00:15] hello [00:15] and here :) [00:15] So? Where is everyone? [00:15] let me try something... [00:15] ooh they're popping up like daisies in the spring! [00:15] jenda? :) [00:15] tyche: late, i guess [00:15] johnc4510 may not make it. Family problems. [00:16] where there topics proposed for the meeting? [00:16] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meetings/Minutes/2008-04-08 [00:18] not much there :) [00:18] the main idea behind these meetings is getting the team rolling again, right? [00:19] beuno: that's correct [00:19] I'm sorry I missed the previous meetings [00:20] beuno: no problem. glad to have you here now :) [00:20] IMHO, _the_ problem currently is that the team doesn't have a very well layed out purpose [00:20] i think it does [00:20] and the team lead is MIA [00:20] (Corey) [00:20] i've sort have been taking care of things lately [00:21] DPic, I've seen, and I'm glad you have [00:21] i think we just need more delegates from locos [00:21] we need to get more loco's involved so i was going to send out meeting alerts to the loco-contacts list [00:22] DPic, I think that to get the team active again we need 3 things: [00:22] about out teams purpose, i think i outlined it pretty well on the wiki [00:22] our* [00:22] 1) Outline who we're aiming at. Canonical does a lot of marketing, and it doesn't make sense to overlap with them [00:23] 2) Draw up very specific tasks and objectives and have people actively pursue them [00:23] 3) Have a nice talk with the Canonical folks so we can find a way to work together [00:23] The first and primary mission of the Ubuntu Marketing Team is to resolve Bug #1 - We work to market Ubuntu to more people. We are the central marketing hub to provide resources and materials for individuals and LoCo teams. We coordinate and organize marketing efforts across teams around the world. [00:23] --from the wiki [00:24] DPic, right, but that's a bit too broad, as we don't, for example, but advertisement in billboards [00:24] as an example [00:24] it should be discussed [00:25] but I believe the team should be the main coordinator for all marketing material, and coordinate LoCos to pass on information [00:25] well i envisioned us as organizing marketing effots like projects and campaigns [00:25] beuno: yes, that's one of the main jobs of the team [00:26] I think we have previously failed in reaching out to the LoCos [00:26] and organizing the currently available marketing material [00:26] in part, due to tecnical limitations on where and how to store it [00:26] it was mroe of a free for all before where people organized their own independent projects [00:27] there's now a materials page and resources page on out wiki [00:27] right, and it worked pretty well for a while [00:27] for a while? they're fairly new [00:28] DPic, what is? [00:28] the materials and resources pages on the wiki [00:29] DPic, the page is, not the material [00:29] yeah [00:29] with the exception of the hardy flyer [00:29] ah, right [00:29] I also think we should finish separating the -news team [00:30] i've requested a forum for us so we'll need a moderator [00:30] and coordinate both teams as to be as effective as possible [00:30] anyone here think they would be up for the job? [00:30] the -news team? [00:30] DPic, yes, UWN, Fridge, Full Circle, etc [00:30] those are virtually split up into a new team [00:30] oh yeah it would make sense for them to have their own team [00:31] who's objective is to inform the community at large [00:31] they used to be part of -marketing [00:31] yeah [00:31] And wouldn't the CC need to pass on the change? [00:31] would they? [00:32] tyche, not really, no. We've discussed it to death already, and even have a mailing list/channel/group [00:32] i don't think so [00:32] hello cody-somerville :) [00:32] i can fix up the new team wiki [00:32] anyway, cody-somerville was in -marketing way before me, so he might have some insight too [00:32] What would a moderator have to do? [00:32] * cody-somerville wonders what we're discussing. [00:33] * cody-somerville apologizes for coming in late. [00:34] cody-somerville: no problem [00:34] cody-somerville, mainly, how to get the team back up and running [00:34] Ooo... Excellent :) [00:34] i think just asking for at least one person from each loco would be great [00:34] for which I tried to describe why I thought it slowly died away [00:34] I was having a discussion about this just the other day with Persia. [00:35] cody-somerville, and I proposed: [00:35] 1) Outline who we're aiming at. Canonical does a lot of marketing, and it doesn't make sense to overlap with them [00:35] 2) Draw up very specific tasks and objectives and have people actively pursue them [00:35] 3) Have a nice talk with the Canonical folks so we can find a way to work together [00:35] * cody-somerville nods. [00:35] i like out independence from canonical [00:35] Who is the current team lead? [00:35] cody-somerville, Corey, which is MIA [00:36] * cody-somerville nods. [00:36] So besides Corey, is there anyone everyone would feel comfortable with leading the project? [00:37] * beuno thinks it over [00:37] * cody-somerville wonders if beuno should nominate himself :) [00:37] lol everyone nominates themself [00:38] * DPic was thinking the same thing [00:38] * beuno wonders if he will have the time/energy [00:38] cody-somerville, I think we should drag Corey into a meeting and/or email thread about this first [00:38] beuno: that would probably be the best idea [00:39] beuno, What would be the purpose of that dialogue? [00:39] /goal [00:39] cody-somerville, to get some of his insight on the issue, and to not step over him rudly :) [00:40] ask him whether he will continue to lead the team [00:40] Oh, trust me, Corey is burnt out and has admitted it several times. [00:40] Although I don't think we need to "pick" a leader today, I think we do need to identify the core contributors and ask them to champion this revival. [00:41] cody-somerville, I do, and I know, it just seems like he should be included in this, unless he explicitly doesn't want to [00:41] do we really need a leader? i have myself as a contact on the contact us page [00:41] beuno: you may add yourself as well if you like [00:41] Well, I'm currently an administrator of the team myself but as you know I'm pretty tied up with Xubuntu. [00:41] DPic, I'm not sure yet, and, on the other hand, you have been actively pushing this when all I've done is drop into this meeting :) [00:42] However, I think we have enough "authority" at this meeting to make some moving forward decisions :) [00:42] cody-somerville: agreed [00:43] i'll work on setting up the NewsTeam and also to get more teams involved with us [00:43] * cody-somerville nods. [00:43] does anybody have any ideas for hardy or should we move on to discussion about our next project? [00:43] I'd personally like to have a nice conversation with some of the Canonical folks to see how we can work *together*, and I'm willing to poke the right people to get that going [00:43] DPic, boredandblogging is heading that up, so talk to him first please [00:43] heading what up? [00:44] the -news team [00:44] oh okay i'll talk to him then [00:44] beuno, Is there a contact page to show who is responsible currently for what? [00:44] or, at the very least, UWN, which is the biggest burden [00:44] what would canonical provide for us? [00:44] cody-somerville, not really, it never got formalised due to lack of interest in -marketing [00:45] DPic, I don't know, I just want to make sure we get in sync, as opposed to what used to happen [00:45] i personally don't think we need acnonical but it sure wouldn't hurt to get in contact with them [00:45] it might be what can *we* do for *them*, which, benefits all of us in the end [00:45] DPic, it's not about needing, it's about coordinating [00:45] i see [00:46] would you be able to contact them? [00:46] they have marketing campaigns going, and we duplicate a lot of effort if we overlap [00:46] DPic, I have half a draft already, I talked to Gerry in london a month or so ago about it [00:46] (that's a yes) [00:47] I think one of the best ways we could help market Ubuntu is by producing material to help DIY marketers. [00:47] We constantly get requests for slideshows and the what not [00:47] cody-somerville: that's the purpose of our materials page [00:48] cody-somerville, yes, and, if we lack people to do so, just gather whatever is around and get it on one place, translated, and publisize where it is [00:48] * cody-somerville nods. [00:49] It seems we need what I'm currently working on for Xubuntu [00:49] A strategy document [00:49] cody-somerville, do you remember the DIY website? That would of been what we're wanting today [00:49] what kind of strategy do we need? [00:50] * cody-somerville nods at beuno [00:50] cody-somerville, that would be #1 on the list for me today [00:51] Lets ask ourselves some questions. [00:51] What is our primary goal? [00:52] What do we want to accomplish? [00:52] Where do we want to market Ubuntu? [00:52] Why do we want to market Ubuntu? [00:52] When do we want to market Ubuntu? [00:53] I believe we don't actually want to market anything ourselves, that would be the LoCos job, as they have a much better reach then we ever will. We should be the support structure for them to easily market Ubuntu [00:53] Does everyone agree with that statement? [00:53] so, besides providing enough material, we should also coordinate project-wide efforts [00:53] i think the statement on out wiki covers this [00:53] Education would be helpful, too [00:54] Okay, so it seems like we've already developed a strong sense of what we want to do. [00:55] So, how do we do that - specifically? [00:55] having a "Mission Statement" is one thing [00:56] well i said i'd get more people involved from other loco's [00:56] that wil mean we'll have more people to work with [00:56] more stuff getting on out materials page [00:56] and more of those materials being used [00:56] etc. [00:56] IMHO, setup some system to add/search for marketing content easily (DIY Website), and setup a procedure con how to promote specific efforts around the community [00:56] * cody-somerville nods. [00:57] Okay, so lets agree that the current project priorities are: [00:57] 1) Create a DIY website [00:57] One limitation I've run into is posting something to a forum, etc. [00:58] 2) Develop clear documentation/procedures on how LoCo Teams can market Ubuntu effectively [00:58] 3) Promote the Ubuntu Marketing team to get more people involved. [00:58] cody-somerville: have you seen the LoCoActivism pages i created? [00:59] Sub head to #3 is to tell them how they can contribute. [00:59] DPic, I haven't. Link? [00:59] they mostly aren't marketing but they have some useful stuff [00:59] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoActivism [01:00] LoCoActivisim seems to be the marketing team [01:00] It pretty much covers point 2 from what I can see. [01:01] I agree that 1/2/3 sums it up [01:02] what do you all think of this idea? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Projects/DigitalFreedomFlicks [01:02] DPic, I dunno if it is in the scope of the Ubuntu Marketing Team at this time. [01:02] It seems we have a hard enough time maintaining the core projects. [01:03] okay it seems like it would be a difficult project [01:03] well, i was thinking we could start a campaign to get ubuntu sold in stored [01:03] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Campaigns/UbuntuInStores [01:04] and this was a blog post i was working on for it http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=ajdqhbdzgsdj_1002d86b2kc7 [01:04] Ok, lets drop the current projects listed except for Spread Ubuntu [01:05] would SpreadUbuntu be out DIY website? [01:05] our* [01:05] Yes [01:05] DPic, no [01:05] :p [01:05] bah [01:05] could be [01:06] wasn't the original idea, but I suppose we should merge those projects [01:06] seems like it would make more sense if we merged them [01:06] DIY was suppose to be a part of spreadubuntu [01:06] so DIY was the first step [01:06] "website to provide resources for grassroots advocacy" [01:06] and spreadubuntu had a much larger aim [01:07] i see [01:07] Okay. Understood. [01:07] well i'd like to see a site that could be used for any free software project and to promote free software in general [01:07] That would be nice but out of our scope. [01:07] I think that's further on down the road [01:08] we wanted to emulate what spreadfirefox had done [01:08] well i don't think it would hurt to start it with that aim even if all of our content is ubuntu in the beginning === L1pe_ is now known as lipe === lipe is now known as L1pe [01:09] DPic, agreed [01:10] so could we think of a name that would encompass more than just ubuntu? [01:10] i've always liked the term "digital freedom" [01:11] DPic, I'd rather not get in that deep [01:11] I'm sure we could make the source code available [01:11] and it wouldn't be hard to hard to link to other installations in the future [01:12] However, we need to set appropriate goals that are obtainable in our _current_ situation. [01:14] * beuno has to run :( [01:15] beuno: alright, thanks so much for coming! [01:15] I need to go to bed as well [01:15] However, I think we've made progress [01:16] yes [01:16] me too, we should ping Corey and have a new meeting [01:16] this was a good meeting [01:16] We've all agreed that getting more user contributed content is important and that we need to make it easier to do just that. [01:16] yeah [01:16] :( and I missedi it. I couldn't get here erlier [01:17] cody-somerville, yeap, absolutely [01:17] Once we get this one big project taken care (DIY), we can then decide on our next big project (maybe some sort of campaign). [01:17] i think we can handle a letter writing campaign [01:17] DPic, Excellent idea :) [01:18] i'd appreciate some people's feedback on my blog postt before i publish it though [01:18] So I assume someone that isn't going to bed can take care of updating the wiki, posting the logs and minutes, etc. etc.? [01:19] that's me [01:19] DPic, if you email me the draft, I'll take a look at it in a few hours [01:20] cody-somerville: before you wake up, at least. [01:20] L1pe, :) [01:20] thanks [01:20] FYI, -news site is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewsTeam [01:21] cody-somerville: np, I would have like to come later and take part of the meeting, but i couldn't. [01:21] *erlier [01:22] beuno: where can i find you email? [01:22] DPic, beuno@ubuntu.com [01:22] sent [01:23] DPic, I'll look now then [01:25] well, is meeting over? [01:25] if nobody has anything to add [01:25] any last thoughts? [01:26] just to close the log :) [01:26] - meeting adjourned - [01:26] k [01:26] I will perform my duties in a coupel of hours :) [01:27] L1pe: i'll copy the log over since you got here late [01:30] DPic, the draft looks awesome :) [01:31] I'd punch in a mention on how Photoshop CS3 worhs with wine nowadays [01:31] as it's a _major_ step forward for many people [01:31] but the rest looks great [01:31] is the ending compelling enough to get people involved? [01:32] DPic, yes, I think so. I'd also add "support companies who currently offer Ubuntu" [01:32] ya' know, encourage em to keep on investing [01:33] like who? [01:33] Dell, System76, anyone else I can't think of :) [01:35] anyway, I'm off for now [01:35] but feel free to ping me/email for anything I can help you with :) [04:02] is there a good diet softwares? like for a diabetes guy or a healthy living diet software for person who has heart d eases? [04:05] ask in #ubuntu please === never|mobi is now known as neversfelde|mobi === asac_ is now known as asac [06:58] * ogra_cmpc yawns [06:58] heya ogra [06:58] * asac waves [06:58] hey hey [06:58] hi all [06:59] * slangasek moos [06:59] hi [06:59] * ArneGoetje wipes sweat off his forehead [06:59] Greetings. [06:59] * TheMuso looks out the window at possibly more rain. [07:00] * evand looks out the window into darkness. [07:00] ah yes, that's why i should leave soonish. [07:00] * Hobbsee sees fire out the window. [07:01] fire? [07:01] at least, i wish i did. It would make things more interesting. [07:01] good morning [07:01] haha [07:01] morning doko [07:01] * Hobbsee has done more bug squishing. [07:01] morning all [07:01] * ogra_cmpc has done less sleeping [07:02] Hobbsee: I was going to say, do you live in los angeles or something? [07:02] * bryce waves to all [07:02] bryce: not unless i've moved continents without noticing, no... [07:02] and in the unlikely event of that, id' prefer to see Europe, not the US. [07:04] Hobbsee: not much fire out the window in Europe, but in the US we have either the damnation and brimstone kind on the right coast, or the torching your SUV kind on the left [07:04] * slangasek hehs [07:05] hmm, am I 1h too early? [07:05] I don't think so... :) [07:05] doko, i think colin slept in :) [07:05] well, let's make use of the time, eh? How's everybody's hardy bugs doing? :) [07:05] maybe he forgot to switch DST on... :D [07:06] don't think so, it's the second week of DST for him :) [07:06] bryce: tasty. [07:06] ooh, I've got one for ya. [07:06] he was around until 2am (whichis 6h ago) [07:06] things look OK, though I have a fair amount that I need to get done later today to be happy going into FinalFreeze. [07:06] bug 153625 [07:06] Launchpad bug 153625 in ca-certificates "update-ca-certificates error. ca-certificates.crt empty (with pt_BR locale)" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/153625 [07:07] james_w: "for us"? Are we still not done with that? :) [07:07] pitti was helping with me with it, but as he is away collaborating this week he asked me to find another sponsor. [07:07] slangasek: I wish we were. [07:07] I put prev/next buttons on http://people.ubuntu.com/~bryce/Xorg/status_current.html, and flipping through the pages, things are definitely going in the right direction for X, but still a few more left to go [07:10] * bryce is very thankful for actively involved community members [07:10] Still got users with pulseaudio issues... Tracking svn to see if there any more useful fixes we may want, and going to see what is being done for fedora 9. [07:13] TheMuso: firefox + flash-nonfree crashes frequently because of this pulseaudio thing. i suspect that its related to libflashsupport. [07:13] maybe there is a libflashsupport update? or fedora has patches? [07:13] asac: Yeah possibly... [07:14] TheMuso: without pulseaudio it works great - which is why i never noticed it [07:14] asac: I'll have a look later. I'll add it to my TODO list. [07:14] asac, libflashsupport is only needed for networked connections [07:14] ogra_cmpc: How so? [07:14] pulse works fine without it if you run it locally [07:14] ogra_cmpc: without libflashsupport sound doesn't work ... at least that was reported before someone added it as hard dependency [07:15] its a workaround for a bug where pulse leaves filehandles open on networked connections that have an alsa endpoint [07:15] asac: got my message about flash and scim? [07:15] ArneGoetje: yeah. [07:15] ArneGoetje: so the free implementations don't work? [07:15] asac: correct [07:16] (have qa look at the package description, i linked the bug in it) [07:16] asac: and I suspect that's not a scim problem. [07:16] ogra_cmpc: ogra_cmpc what does "networked connections" meanin this context? [07:16] asac, non local :) [07:17] ogra_cmpc: i understand what networked means ;) [07:17] at least thats how i learned about libflashsupport two releases ago ... we should at least run a test without it, i dont think it does anything useful on local connections [07:17] ugh, apologies I'm late - the alarm clock said it was 6:55 :-/ [07:17] thanks for starting without me [07:18] * ogra_cmpc had his mobile ready to call at :30 [07:18] hi cjwatson [07:18] heya cjwatson [07:18] hi cjwatson [07:18] james_w: ouch at 153625 still being active [07:19] cjwatson: yep, every time I touch it it seems to get worse, so I'm going to stop poking it so much. [07:20] oh, just the double question thing [07:20] I think you're doing fine [07:20] asac, my prob is that i never tried it outside of ltsp befiore hardy and someone pulled it in as a dep because we use it in ltsp ... but i'm really not sure its relevant if pulse isnt running on localhost [07:20] ouch [07:20] s/isnt/is/ [07:21] ogra_cmpc: well ... i had several complains before it was a dep that sound didn't work without it [07:21] on my side, there are still quite a few installer bugs on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+bugs which I've been trying to attack [07:22] asac, well, if you can relate it to that then i think its fine ... [07:22] (i dont think it does any harm either, it just closes stale filehandles ) [07:22] ogra_cmpc: it caues frequent crashes [07:23] ogra_cmpc: just go to youtube and play like 10 files [07:23] thast what i'm doing every day to test the classmate [07:23] it doesnt crash here [07:23] asac: I'll try it later and see what I get. [07:23] ogra_cmpc: maybe its a race you don't see on your system ;) [07:23] the OEM team is pretty focused on flash :) [07:24] TheMuso: yeah ... its reported to happen if you hit back while playing and then forward again . do that until you get a crash [07:25] asac: Ok. [07:26] Do we need to install libflashsupport by default? [07:26] thats the question [07:26] I think its only used for flash-nonfree. [07:26] or is it the converse, that things get worse when it *is* installed? [07:26] yeah ... its not installed by default, but its installed whenever you install flashplugin-nonfree [07:26] cjwatson, thast what we're discussing [07:26] The only way we'll really know is to play something through pulse while using flash without libflashsupport [07:27] ah, right, I'd missed the rdepends [07:27] TheMuso: right. thats the use case that was broken before libflashsupport [07:27] asac: Right. [07:27] the question is, do we *need* to route flash through pulse at all [07:27] ogra_cmpc: If users are playing music and want to play a flash game for example, yes. [07:27] alsa should handle it directly just fine [07:28] ogra_cmpc: Unless pulse is busy doing something with the alsa device. [07:28] And, pulse talks directly to the hardware, and not through dmix. [07:28] ogra_cmpc: then why do we need pulse? :) [07:28] TheMuso, i thought we have the dmix backend active anyway [07:28] ogra_cmpc: No. Pulse uses hal to detect sound devices, then interfaces with them directly. [07:28] asac, for the ding and doing sounds of your desktop [07:29] right, but pulse is also able to use dmix in the backend [07:29] ogra_cmpc: Yes, but not if you use the hal module, which requires manual configuration. [07:29] meh [07:30] This is also why some sound cards don't work with pulse. Either because they use a different sample format to what pulse uses, or they have non-standard mixer element n ames. [07:30] asac, pulse is there because the libgnome devs dont manage to get a gestreamer backend working for libgnome [07:30] thats the only real reason for it [07:30] ogra_cmpc: damn. and now everyone has to suffer :/ [07:31] there were patches for libgnome->gstreamer ... i have no idea what they decided for pulse [07:31] ogra_cmpc: Pulse is much more useful than that, but it still has teething problems. [07:31] s/what/why [07:31] actually until pulse appeared i thought that sound servers were scheduled to die :/ [07:31] ogra_cmpc: GNOME still doesn't use pulse directly. It uses the esound compatibility layer. [07:32] TheMuso, it does a job most soundcards can do themselves ... [07:32] ogra_cmpc: Correctino, it does a job that dmix does. Most sound cards can't play more than one sample stream simultaneously. [07:32] correction [07:32] Anyway, we're getting OT. [07:32] yeah [07:32] yeah ... -> -devel [07:33] Right; are there any other fires people would like to point out in terms of Hardy bug-fixing at the moment? [07:33] anyway, i think we should consider to drop libflashsupport from depends of flashplugin-nonfree [07:33] make it a recommends [07:34] Is the config file prompt with bash-completion on upgrades known about? [07:34] ogra_cmpc: suggests ;) [07:34] or that :) [07:34] * TheMuso checks for a bug. [07:34] damn, I just noticed that but assumed that I had actually edited the file and forgotten about it [07:34] TheMuso: sure, bug #210013 [07:34] Launchpad bug 210013 in bash "bash-completion config replacement prompt on upgrade from gutsy to hardy" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210013 [07:35] Right. [07:35] hmm, currently unassigned; I think I can squeeze that one onto my schedule later this week if need be [07:35] yes, can do this today or tomorrow [07:36] doko: ok, I'll assign it to you instead then? [07:36] cjwatson: kees and I noticed a variety of HAL/USB breakages (cameras, scanners, et al) lately. Maybe this is already known? [07:36] Well I can reproduce bug 91814, but simply lowering the priority of the question doesn't help, and I don't yet have any ideas at this point... Still looking however. [07:36] but where do we want to put the old file, if the upgrade conflicts? [07:36] Launchpad bug 91814 in openssl "libssl0.9.8 config asking me 'which services should be restarted to make them use the new lbraries?'" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/91814 [07:36] bryce: do you have any references? [07:37] slangasek: I don't care, I'll ping you tonight [07:37] doko: I believe the customary procedure, if the user has modified the file before it was transferred to the new package, is to let the conffile prompt happen [07:38] cjwatson: I've one for the scanner (moment), but am just curious in general if there are widespread USB issues or if I'm just special [07:38] it isn't something I've heard about, but Ubuntu is too big for me to have heard of everything :) [07:38]