[00:05] ogra: unfortunately whoever decided to do a rewrite of wv did everyone a disservice - wv2 has been basically unmaintained for four years now, with just a vulnerability patch in 2006 [00:05] They are not interchangeable, wv is under active maintenance and improvement (since any word import bug in AbiWord tends to end up being a wv issue) whereas wv2 is not [00:06] http://cmpalmer.blogspot.com/2008/03/john-mccain-is-he-cylon.html [00:07] not to mention that we used to just have the latest wv included in each abi release source tarball, until 2.6 when we decided that that was too messy in case a wv release independently came out between an abi release [00:07] whoops, cut'n'paste error, but enjoy anyway ;) [00:07] lol [00:24] soren: mouse doesn't seem to be working in kvm any more; do you know what's up? [00:26] soren: (with -15) === Pici` is now known as Pici [00:34] Keybuk gave me the advice to mount the initramfs to /initrd. but the command fails: mount -n -o bind / ${rootmnt}/initrd [00:34] mount: Mounting / on /root/initrd failed: Invalid argument [00:34] hum [00:34] this is to get the crash dump when usplash crashes on startup. Does anybody know how to mount the initramfs? [00:35] seems i lost my compiz decorations with the recent uprade === BenC__ is now known as BenC [02:53] someone know why modsecurity is only in dapper and edgy? [03:04] any one know how can I install php-gtk ? [03:07] That sounds so utterly and unspeakably wrong. [03:08] emgent: build failure? what's the package name exactly? [03:20] Fujitsu: what, php-gtk? :D [03:20] Fujitsu: I've been unfortunate enough to inherit PHP shell scripts before. [03:27] I too have inherited some lovely PHP shell-script imitations at work. [03:35] blueyed: ? [03:35] any news on Bug 215778? seems a little serious to me. (all amd64/nvidia fail) [03:35] Launchpad bug 215778 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24 "2.6.24-16.30 kernel update - nvidia: module license 'NVIDIA' taints kernel" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/215778 [03:35] Fujitsu: you know why mod-security is only in dapper-edgy ? [03:35] amd64+nvidia rather [03:35] license problem ? [03:36] not sure. regression from -15 [03:36] dendrobates: some idea? :) [03:36] nvidia freezes when you try to modprobe it (and it says taints kernel at bootup), but i dont know if it always says taints kernel [03:36] anyway ubuntu kernel 2.6.24-16-generic have some problem [03:37] emgent: (From Debian) RoM; undistributable for legal reasons [03:37] argh [03:37] :( [03:37] emgent: nope, I thought the main changes were in virtio. [03:40] xtknight: it always taints the kernel, that's a "normal" log entry. It fails somewhere after that then probably. [03:41] blueyed, yeah. any suggestions on how to make its failure more verbose? [03:41] blueyed: what build failure? [03:42] emgent: of "modsecurity". your already answered question. [03:42] oh ok, now i understand :) [03:43] sudo modprobe nvidia reports a problem with the install command of nvidia. then sudo modprobe -i nvidia says nvidia module doesn't exist, or something to that extent. actually it was freezing but that was before l-u-m update. after l-u-m updates there's just problems modprobing nvidia but it doesnt freeze on modprobe [03:43] it shows errors instead [03:46] if there is any debugging or cmds i could run to debug nvidia i would be glad to [03:47] people say the official nvidia.com one works [03:47] same version AFAIK [05:30] anyone around that can sponsor a fix to jockey? === asac_ is now known as asac [07:23] hi, anyone has a clue why rhythmbox grinds my HDD, and then freezes my system when I'm running on batteries? [07:31] I'm asking in here because I think there'd be more clued folks... [08:19] Where does the acpi/suspend whitelist live? Suspend works fine on my laptop but i don't want to wait around for upstream to add it. === Whoopie_ is now known as Whoopie [08:32] Good morning [08:37] This must be an Firefox package config error http://dpaste.com/44451/ ? [08:38] It is in Hardy [09:04] acpi makes me cry. [09:04] Where does the acpi/suspend whitelist live? Suspend works fine on my laptop but i don't want to wait around for upstream to add it. === hunger_t is now known as hunger [09:41] Hello, how can I create a source.changes file for a source package ? [09:53] Would it be possible to update git-core to the new version? [10:07] hunger: while frozen for release? Quite unlikely. [10:08] would it be possible to alter the gksu package to shift the nautilus-gksu extension to the correct directory? [10:20] Keybuk: Hi, I tried to mount the initramfs, but it fails with "mount: Mounting / on /root/initrd failed: Invalid argument" [10:22] Whoopie: did you remember --bind? [10:23] Keybuk: command was mount -n -o bind / ${rootmnt}/initrd [10:23] change bind to --bind [10:23] eh wait [10:23] no [10:23] mount -n --bind / ${rootmnt}/initrd [10:24] ok, I try again [10:25] Keybuk: btw, do you use thinkfinger? sometimes, hald-addon-input gets stuck and uses 97% cpu. and then, no sudo commands are working. reboot is the only solution [10:25] no, I don't [10:26] fingerprints are not a good authentication mechanism [10:26] while they happen to be unique [10:26] they're not _secret_ [10:26] yeah :) [10:26] but it is convenient isn't it [10:28] you may as well just set no password at all [10:29] if there is no password then you can't authenticate can you? [10:29] that's the point [10:30] if there's no password, it's very convenient to use your computer [10:30] you can't log in if there's no password [10:30] very much like root [10:30] yes you can [10:30] eh? [10:30] really? [10:30] you just type your username (or click it) and you'll be logged in [10:30] but root has no password [10:31] Reading a fingerprint is a nice alternative for typing your username when logging in, but not for typing your password. :-) [10:31] no, root has a locked password [10:31] aaah [10:31] i see [10:31] :*: <- locked [10:31] :: <- no password [10:31] i see [10:31] Keybuk: some error message [10:33] hmm [10:34] Whoopie: you put it as the last command before run-init? [10:35] Keybuk: http://en.pastebin.ca/982154 [10:35] and you get invalid operation? [10:35] *sigh* it clearly doesn't want to let you do that, then [10:35] Invalid argument [10:37] the initramfs / must be special in some way [10:37] ion_: can you do that? [10:37] make fingerprint match to username instead of using it for password, i mean [10:37] Amaranth: not with pam [10:43] pitti: you being the old "maintainer" and the only core-dev knowing this package, what do you think about bug #192772? [10:43] Launchpad bug 192772 in linux-wlan-ng "please merge linux-wlan-ng 0.2.8+svn1851+dfsg-1 from Debian main unstable" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/192772 [10:45] Keybuk: hmm, I'm open to test anything you advice me :) [10:46] ok [10:47] remove the mount, but keep the ulimit [10:47] edit /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/init-top/usplash [10:47] stick cd /dev/.initramfs just inside the if [ $SPLASH = "true" ] block [10:47] update-initramfs -u [10:47] then try again :) [10:49] Keybuk: as first command inside the if block? [10:49] where should I find the crash dump then? [10:50] Keybuk: hmm, /dev/.initramfs has a core file. [11:00] Keybuk: great, the core file is indeed from usplash. Core was generated by `/sbin/usplash -c -x 1024 -y 768'. [11:00] Program terminated with signal 11, Segmentation fault. [11:01] ok [11:01] great [11:01] add to your /etc/apt/sources.list: [11:01] deb http://ddebs.ubuntu.com hardy main universe [11:02] then apt-get update [11:02] and apt-get install usplash-dbgsym libusplash0-dbgsym] [11:02] also libx86-1-dbgsym [11:03] that should help you get a better stack trace [11:03] heya [11:03] so I need to reboot and catch a new core file, right? [11:03] no [11:03] you can trace that one [11:04] ok [11:04] the dbgsym packages just have the bits that were "stripped out" === Lure_ is now known as Lure [11:06] stgraber: i see a few documentation related ideas on brainstorm.u.c, could you perhaps create a "documentation" category for those? http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/5589/ [11:09] Keybuk: following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Backtrace, I get: http://en.pastebin.ca/982176 [11:10] Whoopie: gdb /sbin/usplash core [11:11] mdke: doing a quick search on the website it appears we have ~50 ideas related to documentation or howtos. So we'll probably add a documentation category in the next code/db update (monday or tuesday) [11:11] Keybuk: http://en.pastebin.ca/982178 [11:12] ok [11:12] extract a full backtrace from that [11:14] Keybuk: http://en.pastebin.ca/982182 [11:15] great [11:15] can you file a bug with that? [11:16] "usplash segfault in bogl_tcfb_put" and attach the trace [11:16] I would attach it in bug 205990, ok? [11:16] Launchpad bug 205990 in usplash "[hardy] splash screen disappears after a few seconds" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/205990 [11:16] ok [11:17] it looks to me like it's gone out of the bounds of the framebuffer [11:17] stgraber: great, thanks. can the documentation team be given moderator rights over such a category? (~ubuntu-core-doc on LP) [11:18] Keybuk: can i quote you in the bug report? [11:18] sure [11:20] done [11:20] great, thanks [11:20] thanks a lot for your help [11:20] no worries [11:21] given the level of that bug, it's sadly unlikely to get fixed in time for hardy [11:21] but I'll make sure someone looks at it [11:21] Keybuk: it's interesting that it doesn't affect everybody. [11:21] Whoopie: yeah, can you add as many relevant details as you can think of? [11:22] are you using i386 or amd64? [11:22] what graphics card? [11:22] what resolution? [11:22] attach /etc/usplash.conf [11:23] attach output of update-alternatives --display usplash-artwork.so [11:23] also obviously dpkg-query -W usplash usplash-theme-ubuntu [11:26] ok [11:45] mdke: we are not directly linked to LP (yet) so we can't use LP's team as ACL. But if you have people in the doc team interested in being a moderator on Brainstorm, ask them to reply to this mail : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2008-March/025155.html [11:47] stgraber: sure thing; thanks [11:48] stgraber: is it possible for ubuntu-core-doc members to have a developer role just for the documentation category, or are the permissions not so subtle yet? [11:52] mdke: permissions are common to the whole website for now. Developer on Brainstorm means (at least for me) : Someone who knows enough of Ubuntu's development to correctly answers questions about the release to come. [11:52] mdke: so some of your guys may also ask for the Developer role if they think they know Ubuntu's development well enough for that (as they are writting the doc I'd assume they do) [11:53] stgraber: ok, thanks for the clarifications [11:53] np [11:55] Mithrandir: You could stuff git-core into backports if it can not make it into the normal repos;-) === hunger_t is now known as hunger === Lure is now known as Lure_ === Lure_ is now known as Lure [12:59] is it possible to have translation packages rebuilt for hardy ? === harrisony__ is now known as harrisony [14:15] The clipboard bug REALLY needs to be fixed. [14:16] "the clipboard bug" ? [14:16] theunixgeek: clipboard bug? [14:17] [23:15] The clipboard bug REALLY needs to be fixed. [14:17] wfm? [14:17] Hobbsee: the one where you copy something from one application, close the window, and then try to paste it in another. [14:17] theunixgeek: that's not a bug [14:17] theunixgeek: install gliper. [14:17] the clipboard is designed to work that way [14:17] Keybuk: don't tell me that's a feature :P [14:17] theunixgeek: also note that the same behaviour is observed on all linux systems, and all windows systems. [14:17] and is also designed to allow other applications to intercede to avoid it [14:17] Keybuk: it should be changed. it's extremely inconvenient [14:18] I'm unsure of on macs, but I expect it is the same. [14:18] Hobbsee: no. [14:18] theunixgeek: yes. try it. [14:18] I think it is the same on Macs [14:18] it isn't. [14:18] or the Mac at least fails the same way as Windows (loses rich metadata and leaves plain text/wmf/etc.) [14:18] just tried it. [14:18] theunixgeek: vista? [14:18] theunixgeek: remember that Macs tend to leave applications running when you close the window [14:18] opened textedit, typed "hello", copied, quit TextEdit, lauched safari, pasted [14:18] you have to actually _quit_ the application [14:18] Keybuk: I quit the apps [14:19] Hobbsee: h/o [14:19] Hobbsee: same as the mac [14:19] theunixgeek: try copying test from adobe acrobat with formatting into safari's html editor [14:19] * Hobbsee doens't recognise h/o [14:19] Hobbsee: hold on [14:19] :) [14:20] theunixgeek: you will be pleased to note that your problem will be solved with glipper, or klipper, if you're of that side. [14:20] Hobbsee: I think it should be changed in Ubuntu itself. for newcomers it can be very inconvenient. I reinstalled 3 times to see if the problem could be fixed when I was a newcomer [14:21] theunixgeek: it's on the roadmap, just a long way off [14:21] Keybuk: lol, should be pushed up [14:21] there are far more important things closer [14:22] ok [14:22] as with most things, if you'd like to hurry it along, help out! :-) [14:22] most of the discussion of this kind of thing is taking place within freedesktop.org [14:22] http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/ClipboardManager [14:23] for example [14:23] thanks [14:24] http://standards.freedesktop.org/clipboards-spec/clipboards-latest.txt too [14:24] there are a lot of attempts to work out how to do clipboards properly [14:24] the principle problem is that a clipboard isn't just "text" [14:24] it's actually an atom held by the copying application [14:25] the pasting application can negotiate with the copying application the exact contents [14:25] and you have legacy apps. If it was redone today, we'd probably have done it another way. [14:25] so if you copy HTML from Epiphany, and paste into Abiword, the two can negotiate and agree a method of pasting that preserves formatting [14:25] but if you paste into GEdit, the two might only negotiate a method that preserves the text [14:25] I see [14:25] copy and SVG from Inkscape into GIMP, it might paste a bitmap of it [14:26] but paste into GEdit, it might paste the actual XML data [14:26] obviously if the copying application exits, the atom is lost [14:26] which is why you see the behaviour you observe [14:26] so, it's not a bug, because it's a side-effect of the clipboard being significantly more powerful [14:26] but obviously, it's something that could do with more work :-) [14:26] I see [14:26] thanks for the information [14:27] the usual way is that you have a third program [14:27] which can keep hold of the atoms after the running application has quit [14:27] that third program might only preserve a few common formats (this is what windows and mac do, iirc) [14:27] or that third program might know how to start enough of the copying program back up again when it's needed for paste [14:27] (OLE Clipboard on Windows, etc.) [14:28] I'd really love to have all the different clipboards synchronized all the time. [14:28] obviously if you were going to do this *right* [14:28] ion_: the "middle mouse button" clipboard and the "right click, paste" clipboard? [14:29] you'd want the clipboard to be available over the network too [14:29] laga: Yeah [14:29] ion_: yeah. annoying to no end. [14:29] ion_: ugh, I like the fact they've made those separate :) [14:29] Same... [14:29] read the fd.o clipboard spec for why they MUST be separate [14:29] (otherwise your Ctrl+C/Edit->Copy clipboard is overwritten every single time you highlight anything) [14:29] keybuk: Yes, i know some people like it, but i would like to have the option for them to be synchronized, and i'm quite certain that the option should be on for newbies. [14:30] ion_: apt-get source gtk [14:30] that option should be OFF [14:30] for exactly the reason explained above [14:30] Keybuk: then turn off the "copy to clipboard on highlight" [14:30] newbies don't need to know about the middle mouse button shortcut [14:30] laga: why? it doesn't interfere [14:30] with the way it is today, people who use Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V can keep doing that without surprise [14:30] newbies will find that shortcut eventually :) [14:30] people who use highlight-click can keep doing that without surprise [14:31] AND, most importantly, neither of them conflicts with each other [14:31] yeah, but you're right. it's not good to break existing behavior [14:31] your suggestion would break *both* sets of people :-) [14:31] :) [14:31] I suspect ion_'s real problem is that he's using Firefox, or OpenOffice, or some application that doesn't behave [14:31] FF certainly used to just copy selection into every single clipboard it could [14:32] it's most apparent for me in ff, yeah [14:32] Well, yeah. :-) [14:32] see also "why Keybuk uses Epiphany #194" [14:32] Firefox behaves better than it used to... [14:32] ion_: so you want all applications to behave like the one broken one? [14:34] I guess i would be happy if shift-insert did the right thing everywhere. [14:34] ion_: that tends to mostly [14:34] except, of course, Mono applications [14:34] which for no readily apparent reason, ignore it [14:39] Keybuk: Ironic, given the origin of the keyboard shortcut and the origin of Mono/.NET [14:41] wasn't Shift-insert some IBM attempt to standardise? [14:41] Widely used in DOS. [14:41] Yay, edit.com [14:42] Is it wrong that I still miss qbasic nibbles? [14:53] infinity: I still miss QuickBasic [14:53] that had a *to die for* IDE [14:54] a debugger that could tell you the current value of the variable [14:54] where it was set to that value [14:54] what it was before [14:54] etc. [14:56] Keybuk: I think somebody wrote about an extension to gdb where you could go back in time and get answers to questions such as "what touched this memory location last". [15:18] hi all, I'm having this problem with debdiff. Is it a known problem? [15:18] http://pastebin.com/m2d0aaf16 [15:18] on Hardy [15:24] tseliot: what's at 489? [15:31] Hobbsee: $first =~ s/ $dir1\/$sdir1/ $sdir1/; [15:31] tseliot: what did you tried to do? [15:33] geser: the MOTU guide suggests that we do somthing like "debdiff xicc_0.2-2.dsc xicc_0.2-2ubuntu1.dsc" [15:34] if called it like that then it should work [15:38] geser: is this the only way to provide a patch? Would a diff -Nurb be acceptable in a bugreport? [15:39] if you do it in both versions of the unpacked source packages, it should be acceptable (but no guarantee) [15:41] ok, thanks [15:41] but I still fail to understand why debdiff failed for you [15:48] geser: wait, problem solved, my bad. [15:49] what was the problem? [15:55] geser: well, I didn't notice that I was using the wrong version of the dsc as the first parameter. I should get some sleep :-p [16:05] Keybuk: you around? [16:06] kirkland: yup, what's up? [16:06] Keybuk: bug #214914 [16:06] Launchpad bug 214914 in jockey "jockey-gtk crashed with AttributeError in enabled()" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/214914 [16:06] Keybuk: has 87 duplicates, and getting a whole lot of attention [16:06] Keybuk: pitti is probably in route back home now from Austin [16:06] Keybuk: i posted a debdiff last night [16:07] has pitti reviewed that debdiff? [16:07] Keybuk: nope, he's probably traveling/jetlagged [16:07] well, and it's a Saturday [16:07] Keybuk: yup [16:07] I'd generally rather he reviewed it, since jockey is his baby [16:07] he's back at work Monday morning [16:08] Keybuk: okay... the debdiff adds a missing [0] on the end of any array, fwiw [16:08] we're in freeze anyway, and I expect all the RMs are away [16:08] so any upload wouldn't get processed until monday [16:08] Keybuk: fair enough [16:08] Keybuk: thanks for the info [16:18] Keybuk: all the RM's who can do anything, anyway. [16:30] kernel update today in hardy, known issues? [16:30] going from 24-15 to 24-16 has screwed me i think [16:38] alex-weej: is the kernel hanging when trying to load modules? [16:39] alex-weej: if so, there is a fixed package out. It might on not hit your mirror yet. [16:39] i am using the main archive now, i've got 24-16.30 installed right now [16:40] let me try one more time and figure it out [16:40] BRB [16:46] 16.30 doesn't work from the main archives either... [16:46] is taht the most up to date kernel? [16:46] it appears that at least some modules are loading [16:46] lsmod lists a lot [16:47] Might be a different issue then. [16:47] but kvm_intel notably fails during startup [16:47] there's lots of errors about snd_intel_hda symbols [16:47] evilware-nvidia X doesn't work, trackpad doesn't work, and even my ethernet driver doesn't work [16:48] and atheros wifi never worked in hardy so it is basically networkless! [16:48] and -15 doesn't have any header packages in the archive anymore so i can't build my wifi driver :( [16:49] IIRC, my issues were fixed with the 2.6.24-16.22 version of linux-ubuntu-modules [16:52] i have 16.22 of that already installed [16:53] No idea. I haven't encountered any problems with the new kernel. [16:53] are you on amd64? [16:53] No i386. [16:54] ok [17:17] does anybody know anything about Bug #185854 [17:17] Launchpad bug 185854 in gnome-system-tools "Setting static IP in Network Settings doesn't produce correct data" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/185854 [17:18] it's a high priority confirmed bug but no action seems to be taken [17:18] if ubuntu hardy is released with this bug still open nobody will be able to set a static IP [17:18] not a very nice image to set for a LTS release is it [17:18] hyperair: this is not the appropriate place to pimp your favorite bug ;) [17:19] sure it isn't [17:19] i'm just asking for opinions [17:19] and it isn't my favourite bug either [17:19] also [17:19] it's a weekend [17:20] so you're not very likely to get opinions now ;) [17:20] aaah [17:20] i see [17:21] btw, what you're claiming is plainly false: 18:18 < hyperair> if ubuntu hardy is released with this bug still open nobody will be able to set a static IP [17:22] it's mentioned at the very top that if you correct /e/n/i it does work [17:22] hmm? [17:22] fine [17:22] let's correct that [17:22] nobody without technical knowhow [17:22] haven't read the whole bug-report though [17:23] but yes the problem here is gnome's configuration of /e/n/i, not of the underlying network system [17:23] people with static IPs are hardly ever people without technical know-how [17:23] also [17:23] another point [17:23] it doesn't work for DHCP users either [17:24] i've tried using DHCP on wlan0 and it doesn't work [17:24] the recommended approach for configuring your network will be network-manager in hardy [17:24] Chipzz: even for servers? [17:25] that doesn't mean every other method should be broken [17:25] for servers you aren't likely using gnome-system-tools [17:25] hyperair: if I were you I would raise it on Monday on #ubuntu-bugs or #ubuntu-desktop [17:25] alright [17:25] i will [17:25] thanks [17:26] laga: servers generally don't come wit a GUI, so recommended approach for servers would be /e/n/i (I think( [17:30] Chipzz:there are currently users who want to have both wired and wireless connections simultaneously on #ubuntu+1 [17:30] imo it's not possible with networkmanager [17:30] and since the manual is fscked at the moment, there isn't a gui method [17:30] hyperair: that is possible. you just need to configure your profiles. [17:31] on my personal server I use quagga for configuring the network interfaces. [17:31] like through sys/admin/network? [17:32] it can be done through sys/admin/network [17:32] _if_ it works [17:32] hyperair: yea. or network-manager/manual [17:33] but obviously it won't work at the moment _because_ of the above bug [17:33] and since it has been open for 4 months i'm beginning to get worried [17:34] k === Zic_ is now known as Zic [18:01] hyperair in #ubuntu-bugs raised this, and I, too, think bug 185854 should be looked at asap. [18:01] Launchpad bug 185854 in gnome-system-tools "Setting static IP in Network Settings doesn't produce correct data" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/185854 [18:02] eheheh i raised it here earlier afflux [18:02] i was told to go to #ubuntu-bugs [18:02] omg [18:02] I'm blind, forgive me please. [18:02] =D [18:02] thanks for your concern anyway [18:03] I ran in this earlier, but I thought it was just me having forgotten something [18:03] hahahaa [18:03] np np [18:04] anyway, I think this may even be critical importance, as I think there are quite a lot of people who don't like dhcp in their network. I could change it, but I think I'll leave the devs to decide this. [18:06] brb, testing some n-m stuff === ryu2 is now known as ryu [18:47]