[00:29] <JontheEchidna> Good evening
[00:29] <JontheEchidna> or whatever time of day or night you happen to be in
[00:35] <Left_brasil> hey all
[00:35] <Left_brasil> any 1 in there?
[00:41] <Left_brasil> hey
[00:41] <Left_brasil> all are devel?
[00:52] <Left_Brasil> hi all
[00:53] <Left_Brasil> anyone know how i ca get up aixgl??
[03:10] <n8k99> !eclipse
[03:10] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about eclipse - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[04:23] <yao_ziyuan> kubuntu could be a dead distro if you guys don't revert the default wallpaper, style and window decoration to that of alpha 6
[05:11] <stdin> well, we can all stop what we're doing, it seems the secret to a successful distro is nothing like what we thought, it's all down to wallpaper, style and window decoration apparently :|
[05:14] <yuriy> maybe he's stuck on purple unicorn and fuzzy bunnies?
[07:18] <eagles0513875> apachelogger: morning
[07:19] <eagles0513875> wtf was yao been smoking
[07:35] <eagles0513875> anybody alive in here i have a question regarding a bug im working on
[08:01] <eagles0513875> anybody alive in here
[08:02]  * stdin checks his pulse
[08:02] <stdin> apparently I'm still alive
[08:02]  * Hobbsee dies
[08:05] <eagles0513875> Hobbsee: :(
[08:05] <eagles0513875> lol
[08:05] <eagles0513875> maybe u can help me fix this bug
[08:05] <eagles0513875> since im new to the world of bug fixing in kubuntu
[08:06] <eagles0513875> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase/+bug/216529
[08:06] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 216529 in kdebase "kdebase-bin depends kdebase-bin-kde3 OR kdebase-runtime-bin-kde4" [High,Triaged]
[08:07] <eagles0513875> basically what i need to do with this is removed the kde-bin-kde3 dependency
[08:07] <eagles0513875> and leave the kdebase-runtime-bin-kde4
[08:08] <stdin> what's the problem?
[08:09] <eagles0513875> apachelogger found this last night and i just wanna make sure i understand what im doing so what i need to do is to remove the dependency on the kdebase-bin of kde3 right
[08:09] <stdin> from the report: "therefore the dependency should be _only_ kdebase-bin-kde3"
[08:09] <eagles0513875> so then remove the kde4 dependency
[08:10] <stdin> that's the way I read it
[08:10] <eagles0513875> ill wait till he gets on i did just file another bug which i can probably take a stab at in the mean time
[08:10] <eagles0513875> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kopete/+bug/216665
[08:10] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 216665 in kopete "kopete displays all my msn contacts as being offline using kde4" [Undecided,New]
[08:10] <stdin> so what you need to do is remove any dependencies of -kde4 in there
[08:11] <eagles0513875> for some reason i dunno y kde4 likes to display all my msn contacts as offline
[08:11] <eagles0513875> ok goign to start figuring that out
[08:20] <eagles0513875> stdin: where exactly in the kdebase should i look
[08:21] <stdin> in debian/control, just search all the Depends: lines
[08:21] <stdin> (should only be on the "Package: kdebase-bin" section though)
[08:22] <eagles0513875> not finding it though
[08:23] <stdin> did you make sure to download the hardy version? (Version: 4:3.5.9-0ubuntu6)
[08:23] <eagles0513875> i did sudo apt-get source and got the source
[08:24] <stdin> what version did it get then?
[08:24] <eagles0513875> how do i check
[08:24] <eagles0513875> thename says 3.5.9
[08:24] <stdin> look at the .dsc file name
[08:25] <stdin> should be kdebase_3.5.9-0ubuntu6.dsc
[08:27] <eagles0513875> not finding where it says that
[08:28] <stdin> in the directory you ran apt-get source from
[08:28] <eagles0513875> cli
[08:28] <stdin> cli?
[08:28] <eagles0513875> nm i just got what ur saying
[08:30] <Hobbsee> the dependancy should be kdebase-runtime-bin-kde4
[08:30] <Hobbsee> 4 C&R's 3.
[08:30] <eagles0513875> Hobbsee: so we keep kde4 get rid of 3
[08:31] <Hobbsee> yeha
[08:32] <eagles0513875> still somewhat confused as to checking which version of the source i got lol
[08:34] <eagles0513875> stdin: if i have hardy on this machine wouldnt i be downloading the hardy source by default
[08:34] <stdin> should do, yeah
[08:34] <DarkMageZ> does anyone maintain a repository for kde 4 trunk?
[08:34] <Hobbsee> then again, what does this mean for kde3 users?
[08:34] <stdin> not that I know of DarkMageZ
[08:35] <eagles0513875> not to go digging through files woot
[08:36] <eagles0513875> the dependencies that im looking for would those be in the config files
[08:36] <stdin> no, it'd be in debian/control
[08:37] <eagles0513875> there isnt a debian/control folder here
[08:37] <stdin> in the source directory
[08:37] <eagles0513875> there is everything but a source directory
[08:38] <stdin> kdebase-3.5.9/debian/control <- it's a file
[08:38] <eagles0513875> gotcha
[08:38]  * Hobbsee isn't sure that is actually right
[08:38] <eagles0513875> than again im still not finding it
[08:39] <stdin> kdebase-3.5.9/debian/control: line 98: Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, libpam-runtime (>= 0.76-14), kdebase-bin-kde3 | kdebase-runtime-bin-kde4
[08:39] <eagles0513875> so a simple kde3 delete will fix this error
[08:40] <eagles0513875> i must have gotten the wrong source cuz even with a find its not working
[08:40] <eagles0513875> what subdirectory is it under
[08:41] <stdin> where you ran apt-get source you should have files: kdebase_3.5.9-0ubuntu6.diff.gz,  kdebase_3.5.9-0ubuntu6.dsc and  kdebase_3.5.9.orig.tar.gz and one directory: kdebase-3.5.9
[08:41] <eagles0513875> stdin: i i just have the kdebase
[08:41] <eagles0513875> source
[08:41] <eagles0513875> from the orig.tar.gz
[08:42] <eagles0513875> maybe i didnt extract it completely which is most likely the case
[08:42] <stdin> apt-get source should have unpacked it for you
[08:42] <eagles0513875> it got an error
[08:42] <stdin> remove the dir and do "dpkg-source -x kdebase_3.5.9-0ubuntu6.dsc"
[08:42] <stdin> oh, what error?
[08:43] <eagles0513875> im goign to redownload the source and see if it happens again
[08:44] <eagles0513875> whats the source pkgs name i need to download
[08:45] <stdin> you just do "apt-get source kdebase"
[08:45] <eagles0513875> its getting it
[08:46] <stdin> apt-get source will find the right source package if you give it a binary package name anyway
[08:47] <eagles0513875> internet suxs balls here
[08:49] <eagles0513875> sh: dpkg-source: not found
[08:49] <eagles0513875> Unpack command 'dpkg-source -x kdebase_3.5.9-0ubuntu6.dsc' failed.
[08:49] <eagles0513875> Check if the 'dpkg-dev' package is installed.
[08:49] <eagles0513875> E: Child process failed
[08:49] <eagles0513875> thats the error i get
[08:49] <stdin> then you should probably make sure dpkg-dev is installed ;)
[08:49]  * Hobbsee would suggest installing build-essentials
[08:50] <eagles0513875> lol ok i will after this is installed lol im such a noob when it comes to all this
[08:51] <eagles0513875> Hobbsee: where do i get build essentials from im doing apt-cache search for it nothings coming up
[08:51]  * Hobbsee also advocates reading, and using apt-cache search.
[08:51]  * Hobbsee thirdly advocates using a brain.
[08:51] <fdoving> eagles0513875: it's named build-essential, not essentials. :)
[08:51] <stdin> apt-get install build-essential
[08:51] <Hobbsee> (saves you looking like an idiot)
[08:52] <eagles0513875> lol
[08:52] <eagles0513875> i know bout apt-cache search Hobbsee use it all the time cuz i hate going into the pkg manager
[08:52] <Hobbsee> apparently not well enough, because you didn't search for build essential or similar, or didn't see the result.
[08:53] <fdoving> if you search for build essentials you won't find anything.
[08:53] <fdoving> the "essential" part of that package should be named "essentials" to appear in searches :)
[08:54] <Hobbsee> yes, hence the drop the s, and try again.
[08:54] <eagles0513875> lol
[08:54] <Hobbsee> it's usually good for searching
[08:54] <eagles0513875> they should change it a bit if there is an extra letter like i was doing it should still find the pkgs relating to ur search even if the spelling isnt exact
[08:54] <eagles0513875> no to try downloading the source again
[08:55] <fdoving> no, when i search for something i want those matches, not all the 'almost' matches.
[08:55] <eagles0513875> thats true
[08:55]  * Hobbsee notes that this might be a really fast way to stop doing kubuntu development.
[08:56] <fdoving> Hobbsee: what? dying? (09:11 *   Hobbsee  dies
[08:56] <fdoving> )
[08:57] <Hobbsee> no.  smashing my head against a wall.
[08:57] <eagles0513875> :(
[08:57] <eagles0513875> its all my fault:(
[08:57]  * eagles0513875 blames myself
[08:57] <fdoving> eagles0513875: don't.
[08:58] <eagles0513875> Hobbsee: dont stop cuz of me lol ill stop before i even get started
[08:58] <fdoving> she won't stop, shes addicted :)
[08:58] <Hobbsee> fdoving: i haven't run hardy kubuntu at all, you know.
[08:58] <eagles0513875> im addicted to kubuntu thats y ive decided to help out
[08:58] <eagles0513875> im running the 64bit version of it with kde4 and compiz
[08:59] <fdoving> Hobbsee: it's caused me nothing but trubbel so far, so i'd wait as long as possible.
[08:59] <eagles0513875> which i was told wouldnt work lol
[08:59] <eagles0513875> fdoving: u using the beta
[08:59] <eagles0513875> stdin: what was the version u said i should have of the source
[08:59] <fdoving> eagles0513875: why would you use compiz in kde4?
[08:59] <eagles0513875> fdoving: i dunno lol
[08:59] <stdin> 3.5.9-0ubuntu6
[08:59] <eagles0513875> i was on kde3 then upgraded to kde4
[08:59] <Hobbsee> compiz is nicer than the kde4 equiv
[08:59] <eagles0513875> stdin: i have that
[08:59] <Hobbsee> fdoving: oh, i lie.  i have tried, but haven't tried seriously in a while.
[09:00] <eagles0513875> lol in a way though kde 4 is implying that alot of people who use it must be blind with the size of the icons lol
[09:00] <fdoving> might be true that compiz got more (useless?) bling-bling.
[09:00] <fdoving> i find the kwin-desktop-effects just fine, and i even disable most of them because they are annoying.
[09:01]  * Hobbsee likes compiz bling.  it actually seems to work more nicely than the original bling
[09:01] <Hobbsee> well, i find the kde versions to be a lot more kludgy
[09:01] <eagles0513875> i got so much compiz bling on here i go nuts sometimes
[09:01] <eagles0513875> so now i have to deleted the kde3 dependency right
[09:01] <stdin> btw, you'll need to install devscripts to run debuild and debdiff
[09:03] <eagles0513875> ok
[09:04] <CheGuevara> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/hardy-changes/2008-April/011020.html
[09:04] <CheGuevara> pitti sounds pretty angry :P
[09:04] <stdin> now you need to make a changelog entry saying what you did
[09:04] <eagles0513875> i guess i go look at the wiki for that
[09:05] <Hobbsee> who uploaded that?
[09:05] <Hobbsee> awen.  hm.
[09:06] <fdoving> CheGuevara: hah, nice one. pretty cool to decide to break teh api this late in the cycle :)
[09:06] <CheGuevara> yep lol
[09:06] <fdoving> sabotage :)
[09:06] <eagles0513875> !changelog
[09:06] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about changelog - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[09:07] <eagles0513875> any links on how to do changelogs
[09:07] <fdoving> dch -i
[09:08] <fdoving> is what you want.
[09:08] <stdin> does that need DEBMAIL and DEBFULLNAME set?
[09:08] <fdoving> eagles0513875: i don't understand the bugreport. bug 216529
[09:08] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 216529 in kdebase "kdebase-bin depends kdebase-bin-kde3 OR kdebase-runtime-bin-kde4" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/216529
[09:08] <fdoving> stdin: doesn't need, but it probably defaults to something wrong.
[09:08] <fdoving> which would require manual editing.
[09:09] <imbrandon> defaults to user@host iirc
[09:09] <eagles0513875> fdoving: ask apachelogger
[09:09] <eagles0513875> fdoving: thats what im working on right now
[09:09] <eagles0513875> i found the changelog but its not writale
[09:10] <eagles0513875> do i create a new one
[09:10] <imbrandon> eagles0513875: sounds like you need to slow up a bit and do a bit-o-reading in the Maintainers Guide
[09:10] <imbrandon> no dont create a new one, fix the permissions and edit that one
[09:10] <fdoving> but you probably want to understand the bug before fixing it.
[09:11] <imbrandon> correct
[09:11] <fdoving> i'm not entirely sure that bug is a bug. mostly because i don't understand it myself.
[09:11] <eagles0513875> apachelogger is the one who filed it should i wait till i talk to him
[09:12] <fdoving> ok, then i suggest followin imbrandons advice in the meantime, reading the maintainers guide.
[09:12] <eagles0513875> if i can find it
[09:12] <imbrandon> !maintainersguide
[09:12] <imbrandon> !maintainers guide
[09:12] <imbrandon> hrm
[09:12] <stdin> !packaging
[09:12] <ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
[09:13] <imbrandon> !package guide
[09:13] <fdoving> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide
[09:13] <imbrandon> bah, anyhow that first link
[09:13] <fdoving> i think.
[09:13] <imbrandon> yea
[09:13] <eagles0513875> thanks guys
[09:15] <eagles0513875> thanks for all ur patience
[09:15] <eagles0513875> would it be hand i am noticing some stuff on launchpad to pkgs anything that needs pkging
[09:17] <Hobbsee> eagles0513875: dude.  read.  think.  reread.  Write sentences that make sense.
[09:17] <Hobbsee> eagles0513875: you're a texan.  You should be able to write readable english.
[09:17] <CheGuevara> lol
[09:17]  * Hobbsee head --> desk
[09:17] <Hobbsee> eagles0513875: i told you all of this last time.  You didn't learn.
[09:17] <eagles0513875> this keyboard is acting screwy
[09:18] <Hobbsee> then get another keyboard.
[09:18] <eagles0513875> lol easier said then done right now. no job no money
[09:18] <eagles0513875> im on my old laptop
[09:20]  * Hobbsee notes you still had trouble ~9 months ago, too.
[09:20] <DarkMageZ> Hobbsee, it's that good old american education system :(
[09:20] <Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: or malta's.  either way.
[09:21] <eagles0513875> lol malta now lol but but mostly the american system since i was born and raised there
[09:21] <Hobbsee> so, you have no excuse.
[09:21] <Hobbsee> and, again, do you really expect people to take you seriously using aolspeak?
[09:22] <eagles0513875> sry bad habit
[09:22] <DarkMageZ> you can't blame the new american generation kids for their spelling. you have to blame the parents & their political representatives.
[09:22] <eagles0513875> feel free to slap me when u notice it awhen anyone does
[09:22] <eagles0513875> when did this channel turn into a political channel
[09:23]  * DarkMageZ slaps eagles0513875... it's "feel free to slap me when you notice it, that invitation is open to anyone"
[09:24] <eagles0513875> lol
[09:24] <eagles0513875> yes it is dark
[09:26] <eagles0513875> just wondering lets say there is an rpm pkg that i would like in the ubuntu repo could i repkg it for debian based systems
[09:26] <eagles0513875> and would it still work
[09:27] <fdoving> well, you would need the source.
[09:28] <eagles0513875> ok
[09:29] <eagles0513875> lets say there was no source for instance u cant deconstruct an rpm and rpkg it using the debian format
[09:29] <fdoving> you can, but you won't ever get it into the ubuntu archives.
[09:31] <eagles0513875> lol
[09:31] <eagles0513875> even if its repackaged
[09:32] <eagles0513875> anyway back to reading the pkg guide
[09:32] <fdoving> well, packaging is really only done properly from sources.
[09:33] <fdoving> there are tools to convert packages, but the result isn't that nice.
[09:33] <eagles0513875> i know bout alien
[09:33] <eagles0513875> and ive used it its yucky
[09:41] <eagles0513875> i just noticed something weird
[09:41] <eagles0513875> there is no mixer icon displaying in kde4
[09:41] <fdoving> then start it.
[09:41] <fdoving> kmix
[09:41] <fdoving> is the command.
[09:42] <eagles0513875> ty
[09:42] <eagles0513875> now my audio hot keys on this laptop dont work:\ oh well
[09:42] <fdoving> that's known.
[09:42] <eagles0513875> they worked on kde3
[09:43] <eagles0513875> and gutsy and feisty and edgy and my blay stop forward and back keys work
[10:26] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: ping
[12:49] <eagles0513875> im back
[12:50] <eagles0513875> apachelogger: u alive dude
[12:50] <eagles0513875> Hobbsee: O_o
[12:50] <Hobbsee> ?
[12:51] <eagles0513875> im guessing nobody missd me
[12:51] <eagles0513875> lol
[12:52] <eagles0513875> Hobbsee: has apachelogger been on at all this morning or not yet
[12:53] <Hobbsee> he hasn't been on.  it is a weekend.
[12:54] <eagles0513875> Hobbsee: i know i just want to confirm some stuff for that bug i was working on earlier
[12:56] <eagles0513875> Hobbsee: is this bug a bug the maintainer has to take a look at or can someone help me out with
[12:56] <eagles0513875> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kopete/+bug/216665
[12:56] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 216665 in kopete "kopete displays all my msn contacts as being offline using kde4" [Undecided,New]
[13:02] <eagles0513875> Hobbsee: i have a question for you if you are up for it
[13:02] <Hobbsee> mmm?
[13:02] <Hobbsee> it better not be "have you got a boyfriend?" again
[13:02] <eagles0513875> no where close
[13:02] <eagles0513875> and what made u think i was going to ask that lol
[13:03] <eagles0513875> and 2ndly it has to do with packaging
[13:03] <eagles0513875> im reading through the guide and i found a link to how to setup a chroot environment only problem is that im not finding one for hardy
[13:05] <Hobbsee> because you did twice, asked for pictures, and a whole bunch of other crap that i found in my logs.
[13:06] <eagles0513875> Hobbsee: that was eons ago ive matured since then
[13:06] <Hobbsee> right.
[13:06] <eagles0513875> i have
[13:07] <eagles0513875> if u dont want to answer my question i understand
[13:08] <eagles0513875> does anyonw know where i can find the chroot environment for hardy
[13:11] <Artemis_Fowl> The mke2fs comes with which package?
[13:11] <Artemis_Fowl> mke2fs command*
[13:13] <eagles0513875> is the chroot environment necessary in regards to developing
[13:27] <eagles0513875> !chroot
[13:27] <ubotu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot use this to build 32 bit environments on a 64 bit box
[13:27] <eagles0513875> ahhhhhh that answers my own question
[13:55] <Hobbsee> Artemis_Fowl: e2fsprogs maybe
[14:13] <eagles0513875> !e2fs
[14:13] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about e2fs - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[14:32] <apachelogger> fdoving: -kde3 and -kde4 have the same files but in different directories, so -kde4 is not an alternative to the -kde3 binaries
[14:33] <apachelogger> though currently -kde3 would get removed when installing kde4 on a plain kde3 because it just can do so
[14:33] <apachelogger> eagles0513875: ahoy
[14:36] <apachelogger> eagles0513875: about bug 216665 - kopete-kde4 is part of kdenetwork, the kde4 source package would be kdenetwork-kde4 so the bug belongs to that package
[14:36] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 216665 in kopete "kopete displays all my msn contacts as being offline using kde4" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/216665
[14:38] <eagles0513875> gotcha
[14:38] <eagles0513875> apachelogger: inregard to that other bug u gave me last night what dependency is wrong the kde3 one or the one of ke4
[14:39] <apachelogger> hm
[14:39] <apachelogger> a little bit of practise...
[14:39] <apachelogger> eagles0513875: try to find out which one ;-)
[14:39] <eagles0513875> lol
[14:40] <eagles0513875> apachelogger: hobbsee told me one thing stdin told me another
[14:40] <eagles0513875> apachelogger: u need a chroot environment if ur going to be testing 32bit stuff right
[14:41] <eagles0513875> im not understanding what a chroot environment is for
[14:42] <apachelogger> hm
[14:42] <eagles0513875> apachelogger: u gave away the answer in the bug
[14:42] <eagles0513875> !chroot
[14:42] <ubotu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot use this to build 32 bit environments on a 64 bit box
[14:42] <apachelogger> simple description: a chroot is a system in a system :P
[14:42] <eagles0513875> like a vm
[14:42] <apachelogger> well, not exactly
[14:42] <apachelogger> it access your hardware directly and all
[14:42] <apachelogger> for example
[14:42] <apachelogger> you have a chroot environment in /var/chroot
[14:43] <apachelogger> if you chroot into that directory
[14:43] <eagles0513875> there isnt one for hardy yet
[14:43] <Hobbsee> you haven't made one.
[14:43] <apachelogger> your bash will suddenly think the stuff within /var/chroot is actually /
[14:43] <apachelogger> eagles0513875: why would you need a chroot?
[14:43] <eagles0513875> ahhh kool i get ya now
[14:43] <eagles0513875> Hobbsee: no how do i
[14:44] <eagles0513875> the chroot wiki confused the living daylights out of me so i create one for hgutsy or hardy
[14:44] <eagles0513875> *gutsy
[14:45] <eagles0513875> i dont think i need one i was just reading through the pkging guid and it mentions it
[14:45] <ryanakca> eagles0513875: if its for packaging, use pbuilder or schroot+sbuild
[14:45] <apachelogger> eagles0513875: it probably explains why you would need one, I guess :P
[14:46] <ryanakca> eagles0513875: if you're using LVM, I'd suggest going for schroot, I can get you the guide for setting one of those up, otherwise, pbuilder is your best bet
[14:46] <eagles0513875> ryanakca: im on a simple laptop
[14:46] <eagles0513875> ryanakca: pbuilder an easier way to go for someone new to pkging
[14:46] <ryanakca> !pbuilder | eagles0513875
[14:46] <ubotu> eagles0513875: pbuilder is a system to easily build packages in a clean chroot environment. To get started with PBuilder, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
[14:47] <eagles0513875> thanks ryanakca
[14:48] <ryanakca> eagles0513875: Somewhat, yes, but if you used LVM when setting up your partitions (If you don't know what LVM is, then you didn't), I would recommend going for schroot. Enjoy :)
[14:48] <eagles0513875> ryanakca: i let kubuntu format during install my entire drive it automatically did them for me
[14:48] <eagles0513875> and lvm is logical volume manager lol
[14:48] <ryanakca> eagles0513875: OK, then you aren't using LVM :)
[14:49] <ryanakca> lol :)
[14:49] <eagles0513875> ryanakca: lol im taking linux certification course lol
[14:49] <eagles0513875> im a linux nut lol
[14:50] <eagles0513875> linux and kubuntu nut in particular
[14:50] <ryanakca> goodies ;)  Oh, and if your starting packaging, *realises that he'd get shot in -motu for saying this*, you'll probably want to go the CDBS route... in my /most/ humble opinion, its much simple than going the long rules file with debhelper route.
[14:51] <eagles0513875> ryanakca: ?
[14:51]  * apachelogger throws his whole ppa at ryanakca
[14:51] <eagles0513875> apachelogger: i have to remove the kde3 bin right
[14:51] <apachelogger> you can't properly use cdbs without understanding debhelper
[14:52] <apachelogger> eagles0513875: what makes you come to that conclusion?
[14:52]  * ryanakca points out that it was only his most humble opinion, and that following it will most likely get you shot :)
[14:53]  * ryanakca goes back to his homework
[14:53] <eagles0513875> apachelogger: says inur bug report
[14:53] <eagles0513875> *your
[14:54] <Hobbsee> apachelogger: i'm not sure that a lot of people 'understand' debhelper, in general.
[14:57] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: pong
[14:58] <apachelogger> Hobbsee: true, still I think one should have a bit of an idea what cdbs is actually doing
[14:58] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: concerning this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuGrubconfig
[14:58] <apachelogger> eagles0513875: can't find it
[14:58] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: I have seen the blueprints
[14:58] <Hobbsee> apachelogger: oh sure.  i'm just questioning the 'understand' bit
[14:58] <apachelogger> Hobbsee: good finding on the replaces/conflicts btw :)
[14:58] <Hobbsee> it's like people 'understanding' cdbs
[14:58] <apachelogger> :D
[14:58] <Hobbsee> apachelogger: heh.  i did think it was a little strange.
[14:59] <Hobbsee> apachelogger: so we install kde4-based stuff on kde3 now?
[14:59] <apachelogger> no
[14:59] <Hobbsee> or is that package only the binaries to be used on both now?
[14:59] <apachelogger> the package is just invalid
[14:59] <Hobbsee> NBS?
[14:59] <apachelogger> the bins are in different paths
[14:59] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: and would like to know if the Save button is preferable to the click-and-save approach
[14:59] <apachelogger> so there is no reason anything should conflict
[15:00] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: if you have ever used Q/KGRUBEditor you would know what I mean
[15:00] <eagles0513875> apachelogger:
[15:00] <eagles0513875> apachelogger: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase/+bug/216529
[15:00] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 216529 in kdebase-runtime "kdebase-bin depends kdebase-bin-kde3 OR kdebase-runtime-bin-kde4" [High,Triaged]
[15:01] <apachelogger> i.e. instead of
[15:01] <apachelogger>  Depends: kdebase-bin-kde3 | kdebase-runtime-bin-kde4, ...
[15:01] <apachelogger>  Depends kdebase-bin-kde3, ...
[15:01] <apachelogger> there is even a typo, oh mon dieu!
[15:01] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: let me look.  i havent seen the wireframes in a while
[15:01] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: take your time
[15:02] <eagles0513875> apachelogger: so kde 3 goes bye bye
[15:03] <apachelogger> eagles0513875: do you understand what I was writing there?
[15:03] <apachelogger> guessing is no good practice for bugfixing really
[15:04] <apachelogger> eagles0513875: btw, I can't reproduce your msn issue
[15:04] <eagles0513875> apachelogger: u on kde4
[15:04] <Hobbsee> apachelogger: so if they're not supposed to replace, why are they marked as C&R'ing?
[15:04] <apachelogger> eagles0513875: yes
[15:04] <eagles0513875> on kopete for kde4
[15:04] <eagles0513875> not the kde3 kopete
[15:05] <apachelogger> Hobbsee: so that eagles0513875 can fix something ... I have no idea, maybe this is a left over from the times when we didn't use /usr/lib/kde4
[15:05] <apachelogger> eagles0513875: yes
[15:05] <eagles0513875> basically what the bug is saying since they r in different paths there is no need for the kde4 dependency
[15:05] <eagles0513875> interesting
[15:05] <eagles0513875> apachelogger: im an idiot
[15:05] <eagles0513875> i wasnt online
[15:06]  * apachelogger headdesks
[15:06] <eagles0513875> apachelogger: u create a nother bug
[15:06] <eagles0513875> im used to the old version of it signs u online automatically
[15:07] <apachelogger> eagles0513875: your probably can configure that
[15:07] <apachelogger> please close the kopete bug
[15:07] <apachelogger> eagles0513875: which other bug?
[15:08] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: what do you mean the click-and-save approach?  you mean how if you click away from a page in system settings your prompted to save?
[15:08] <eagles0513875> same bug number u seemed to have posted it to another pkg as well
[15:09] <eagles0513875> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase/+bug/216529
[15:09] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 216529 in kdebase-runtime "kdebase-bin depends kdebase-bin-kde3 OR kdebase-runtime-bin-kde4" [High,Triaged]
[15:09] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: no. once you change the status of a widget (eg a checkbox is checked and you click on it thus rendering it unchecked) the file is immediately updated to reflect the change
[15:10] <apachelogger> eagles0513875: Hobbsee discovered another part of this issue
[15:10] <apachelogger> appearing in kdebase-runtime where -runtime-bin-kde4 replaces/conflicts the kde3 version, which is just as wrong as the alternative dependency in the kdebase-bin
[15:10] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: ah, you mean implicit save
[15:11] <eagles0513875> so basically we r back to square one
[15:11] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: i dont think that is used at all in KDE so i wouldnt recommend doing it for that dialog
[15:11] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: I am no usability expert :) don't know how all these things are named
[15:11] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: i'm not sure if Gnome does stuff like that
[15:12] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: it wouldn't be hard to do
[15:13] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: btw I have a somewhat different approach as compared to the blueprints but I don't think it would be problem
[15:13] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: want some screenshots to tell me ur opinion on what to fix?
[15:13] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: sure.
[15:14] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: k one min
[15:14] <eagles0513875> apachelogger: what would happen if we changed the path and put them in the same path
[15:15] <apachelogger> eagles0513875: 1) kde4 would break 2) kde3 would break 3) kubuntu would break
[15:15] <Hobbsee> .......
[15:15]  * Hobbsee head --> desk.
[15:15] <apachelogger> you can't replace kde3 binaries with kde4 binaries and vice versa
[15:16] <apachelogger> that is like replacing windows 98 explorer with the one from vista
[15:16] <eagles0513875> then if ur running 3.5 rnt the kde binaries kinda redundant
[15:17] <apachelogger> eh?
[15:17] <Hobbsee> .......
[15:17] <eagles0513875> kde4 binaries i mean
[15:17]  * Hobbsee notes that the whole "think before speech" didn't get through to eagles0513875 the first, nor the second time
[15:18] <apachelogger> eagles0513875: lemme translate that to a more visible example
[15:19] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: Screenshot #1: The main View. What the user firstly sees. Uses a tree-like view: http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/1214640_nkgyi/KGRUBEditor22.png
[15:19] <apachelogger> eagles0513875: you just saied any new unstable version of something is redundant
[15:20] <apachelogger> that pretty much means progress is redundant
[15:20] <eagles0513875> what im saying is if ur running 3.5 rnt the kde4 binaries kinda redundant
[15:20] <apachelogger> because how can you improve a product when you don't have a reliable base you can work on
[15:20] <apachelogger> eagles0513875: kinda
[15:21] <apachelogger> as much as firefox is redundant when you run konqueror
[15:21] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: how do you see that information?  do you select the item?  i dont see an expander icon (+)
[15:21] <eagles0513875> thats what i meant before
[15:21] <apachelogger> as much as evolution is redundant when you run kmail etc.
[15:21]  * ryanakca resists the urge to go '!u | eagles0513875'
[15:21] <apachelogger> eagles0513875: there is no redundancy as they are different
[15:21] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: is that just displayed information or can you edit it?
[15:21] <apachelogger> eagles0513875: they do the same but aren't the same
[15:22] <eagles0513875> ok
[15:22] <eagles0513875> ryanakca: what that do lol
[15:22] <ryanakca> !u | eagles0513875
[15:22] <ubotu> eagles0513875: Unless you're Dutch or Flemish, or a government officier, the letter 'U' is not a pronoun.  If you want to be taken more seriously, please bother to type out the extra letters in "you".  The same goes for "are", "why", "because", "anyone", and so on..
[15:22] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: upon selecting the item it expands showing the info. if you reselect it it collapses. if you click empty space all items collapse and selection is cleared
[15:22] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: not editable (yet at least)
[15:22] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: you have to select the item and click edit entry to edit it
[15:22] <apachelogger> ryanakca: so as a revu using motu I am probably not taken seriously
[15:23] <apachelogger> that explains a lot though :P
[15:23] <eagles0513875> ryanakca: ok thanks for the reminder
[15:23] <ryanakca> apachelogger: lol ;)
[15:23] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: reselect it or double click it?  there is a difference
[15:24] <ryanakca> apachelogger: don't mind me, its just one of my big pet peeves :)
[15:24] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: if selected and clicked it collapses
[15:24] <apachelogger> ^_^
[15:24] <seele> hmm
[15:25] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: it follows a single-click rule
[15:26] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: do you know if there are other listviews in KDE that do that?  i cant think of any offhand, but it would be good to follow their interaction pattern
[15:26] <seele> (people have already been complaining about the 20 different ways lists are implemented..)
[15:27] <eagles0513875> apachelogger: so now we have to figure out our course of action
[15:27] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: actually none of the listviews implementations would fit the needs of this app
[15:27] <apachelogger> eagles0513875: I already did, now you just need to unstand what I man :P
[15:27] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: do you have anything in mind?
[15:28] <eagles0513875> apachelogger: ok
[15:29] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: id have to see more of the dialog to know where the rest of the functionality is
[15:29] <eagles0513875> apachelogger: so in regards to the last part of ur revised commend with the 2 bugs we remove the kde4 dependencies then fix why kde4 is being listed as the alternative to kde3 right
[15:29] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: ok then we move on to more screenshots.
[15:31] <apachelogger> eagles0513875: you have to fix 2 packages
[15:31] <apachelogger> kdebase and kdebase-runtime
[15:31] <apachelogger> in both there is an error in the debian/control file
[15:31] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: some general settings: http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/1214659_lk5x5/KGRUBEditor23.png
[15:32] <Artemis_Fowl> "(/dev/[sh]d[a-z]\\d?|('\\()?hd\\d(,\\d)?(\\)')?)" you need a special decoder to understand what this reg exp says....even I can't understand what I wrote...all I know is it works :)
[15:33] <eagles0513875> apachelogger: ok and the kdebase is another source code i have to get or same source code
[15:33] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: i dont think you can use tabs and pages that way
[15:33] <seele> pages contain tabs.  tabs do not contain pages
[15:33] <eagles0513875> apachelogger: nm answerred my own question
[15:34] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: I am open to ideas...
[15:34] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: do you have more options in your dialog than in the mockup?
[15:34] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: it's not a mockup :) it's fully functional
[15:35] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: and yes all the other pages and tabs have functions
[15:35] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: options*
[15:35] <seele> i meant options that arent in the first wireframe.
[15:36] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: ah, yes. much more
[15:37] <seele> also, one of the reasons why the grub ui never got implemented was that the config files were rewritten every time a new kernel was installed and your changes get lost.. did this change?
[15:37] <seele> (there might have been some other reasons too, but they were technical and i dont remember them)
[15:39] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: don't really know. does the kernel installation affect changes that aren't entry-specific such as default, fallback, timeout etc?
[15:40] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: actually KGRUBEditor was designed accoding to GRUB's Official Manual. it is not distro-specific
[15:40] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: i'm pretty sure it does. but Riddell or mhb would know better
[15:40] <seezer> Artemis_Fowl: have a look at the menu.lst - only lines below ### BEGIN AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST should be touched by update-grub
[15:41] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: that's all right then
[15:41] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: no.. the problem was that adept replaces the config files, so all of your preferences are lost
[15:41] <seezer> but this is debian (and kids) only  i guess
[15:41] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: so every time you update your kernel you have to go an reconfigure everything
[15:41] <seezer> seele: sure? they just call update-grub after installing the kernels afaik
[15:42] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: I think what seezer says is true
[15:42] <Artemis_Fowl> seezer: only lines after between the AutoMagic list are affected I think
[15:43] <seezer> that's what update-grub does. check for all kernel/initrd images and put them in your config, merging the debian-specific config options into the 'kernel' and 'root' lines
[15:43] <Artemis_Fowl> Riddell: ping
[15:44] <Artemis_Fowl> if that's the case, then there is no problem
[15:44] <seezer> Artemis_Fowl: but the boot parameters for each kernel entry get updated to those 'default options' inside 'automagic kernels list'
[15:45] <seezer> i guess it's hard to get that done distro-agnostic
[15:45] <Artemis_Fowl> seezer: y there are many other 'hacks' in there such as lockold etc
[15:46] <seezer> yep. really debian-only afaik :/
[15:46] <seezer> i guess i.e. suse does that alot different through their yast thingy. but haven't had a hand on that for a long time now..
[15:47] <Artemis_Fowl> seezer: positive
[15:47] <Artemis_Fowl> seezer: they have their own 'hacks'
[15:47] <Artemis_Fowl> seezer: but such hacks should be edited by the user
[15:47] <Artemis_Fowl> seezer: KGRUBEditor works with standard GRUB, not all of these thingies
[15:48] <eagles0513875> apachelogger: is the other pkg part of the one we have cuz im already trying to download the 2nd pkg and im not finding anything pkg wise
[15:48] <seezer> but the packagesystems will break it then. that's my guess :/
[15:49] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: anyway. any ideas till now?
[15:49] <seezer> Artemis_Fowl: but hard to do right.. perhaps you should just switch the meaning of 'K' from kde to kubuntu :)
[15:49] <apachelogger> eagles0513875: can you please sk the question in an undestandable way
[15:49] <apachelogger> I read it twice and still don't understand it
[15:49] <apachelogger> s/sk/ask
[15:50] <eagles0513875> u said i have to fix 2 packages
[15:50] <apachelogger> yes
[15:50] <eagles0513875> i have the kde base im trying to get a hold of the 2nd package that needs fixing but im not able to find it
[15:50] <apachelogger> apt-get source kdebase-runtime
[15:51] <apachelogger> or source kdebase-runtime-bin-kde4 should be able to fix it as well
[15:51] <apachelogger> errr
[15:51] <apachelogger> download instead of fix ;-)
[15:53] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: mmm.. not at the moment.  is that just a ui file?
[15:53] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: that refers to...?
[15:54] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: I didn't get what you mean
[15:55] <seele> the screenshots you sent me, i was just wondering if it was a .ui file or if they were just mockups or if you coded it
[15:55] <seele> something you could send me so i can see all of the pages and tabs
[15:56] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: it is a combination .ui files and coding. for instance to set the KDE icons I use code
[15:56] <seele> ah ok
[15:57] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: what can be done using Qt Designer is done though it. anything else is coded
[15:57] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: have you got KDE4 installed?
[15:57] <seele> yes (on a different machine)
[15:58] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: then you could try to compile from source (SVN) and you'll see exactly what it looks like
[15:58] <seele> mmm.. i'm not really too good with that :-/
[15:58] <seele> can you send me screenshots?
[15:58] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: what about a video?
[15:59] <seele> i guess that would be ok too
[15:59]  * Artemis_Fowl screencasts then
[16:00] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: to show you all the features, I will go through really quick. just pause for more details on everything
[16:03] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: it got a bit large and still I didn't include every feature
[16:04] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: uploading....
[16:04] <seele> Artemis_Fowl: you know.. it doesn't need to include every feature
[16:04] <seele> the purpose of the dialog (at least two years ago) was to make simple GRUB options accessible to less-technical users
[16:04] <seele> power admins will probably feel more comfortable editing the file by hand because that is what they are used to
[16:05] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: y i know. only basic functionality is included in KGRUBEditor....
[16:05] <seele> ok..
[16:05] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: GRUB has hundreds of options...
[16:06] <Artemis_Fowl> 8MB is the video size...
[16:06] <seele> hmm.. bbiab.  i forgot i have to go sign my new lease today
[16:06] <seele> ok
[16:09] <eagles0513875> random question how do i create a new folder on the desktop when u right click
[16:09] <eagles0513875> like u used to do in kde 3
[16:09] <Artemis_Fowl> eagles0513875: not possible right now
[16:10] <Artemis_Fowl> eagles0513875: KDE 4.0.x is missing a lot of functionality
[16:10] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: still there?
[16:10] <eagles0513875> Artemis_Fowl: is there a cli command i can run
[16:10] <smarter> eagles0513875: mkdir ~/Desktop/folder
[16:10] <Artemis_Fowl> y
[16:11] <Artemis_Fowl> eagles0513875: it can be done through Dolphin too
[16:12] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: The screencast is uploaded. http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/1214714_qf0ve/out_111046.ogg Watch it carefully and whenever you find me again in the channel ping me
[16:15] <eagles0513875> gotcha
[16:16]  * Artemis_Fowl leaves...bb
[16:17]  * Artemis_Fowl forgot to commit...
[16:18]  * Artemis_Fowl committed.
[16:31] <apachelogger> eagles0513875: how are the fixes coming?
[16:32] <eagles0513875> slowly slowly
[16:32] <eagles0513875> redownloading the sources tryign to keep things organized lol
[16:43] <eagles0513875> apachelogger: got all the sources sorted out
[16:43] <eagles0513875> !changelog
[16:43] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about changelog - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[16:44] <eagles0513875> apachelogger: should i https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto setup tpbuilder before i do anything
[16:46] <apachelogger> eagles0513875: yes
[16:46] <apachelogger> it's in general a good idea to test-build all packages you change
[16:47] <eagles0513875> ok
[17:00] <eagles0513875> apachelogger: how long does it take to setup pbuilder
[17:00] <eagles0513875> its downloading and retrieveing stuff
[17:00] <apachelogger> eagles0513875: the actual creation?
[17:00] <apachelogger> yeah
[17:00] <apachelogger> shouldn't take that long with a decent connection
[17:00] <apachelogger> it's very minimal installation
[17:05] <eagles0513875> apachelogger: i think whats slowing me down is my ide hd
[17:13] <awen_> Riddell: around?
[17:14]  * awen_ is terribly sorry about the api breakage
[17:16] <awen_> Riddell: I've changed the patch to not break the api and included it; plus added the FFE'd consumption display: http://awen.dk/packages/kde-guidance_0.8.0svn20080103-0ubuntu15.debdiff
[17:16] <awen_> Riddell: if you have time to look at it ... ScottK is away for some days now
[17:18] <yuriy> awen_: you probably should consult pitti at this point. he sounded angry in the changelog. and Riddell's gone for the weekend
[17:20] <awen_> yuriy: okay... I'll try that
[17:21] <yuriy> awen_: meanwhile, would you mind packaging the patches for bug 82723?
[17:21] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 82723 in kde-guidance "wineconfig doesn't work" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/82723
[17:22] <yuriy> or if i do it, should i be going off your new package?
[17:27] <awen_> yuriy: do you have the patches anywhere else than in the svn ... don't really know anything about the svn
[17:28] <yuriy> awen_: hmm actually i think i'll put it together myself, but which package to work with?
[17:29] <awen_> yuriy: just work from the one I just linked to...
[17:30] <awen_> yuriy: then we'll only have to disturb a sponsor with one upload for all the fixes
[17:31] <eagles0513875> apachelogger: building the test app as we speak
[17:31]  * yuriy doesn't know how to apply a debdiff
[17:31] <apachelogger> yuriy: patch -p0 < debdiff
[17:32] <yuriy> apachelogger: in the package tree?
[17:32] <yuriy> or above it?
[17:32] <apachelogger> above
[17:32] <apachelogger> i.e. outside the src dir
[17:32] <eagles0513875> apachelogger: that works got pbuilder up and running
[17:33] <apachelogger> cool
[17:40] <eagles0513875> apachelogger: random question lets say there is a debian pkgs in debian repo that doesnt have a source pkg could it be possible to take that pkg and re pkg it
[17:41] <eagles0513875> once i have pbuilder im ready to start debugging things
[17:41] <apachelogger> eagles0513875: no package without source package
[17:41] <eagles0513875> ok
[17:42] <eagles0513875> now that i have pbuilder am i set to fix that bug
[17:43] <eagles0513875> apachelogger: where or how do i know if i have a gpg key
[17:44] <Nightrose> if you don't know what it is and didnÄt create one you don't have one ;-)
[17:44] <Nightrose> *didn't
[17:44] <eagles0513875> lol
[17:44] <eagles0513875> any link to a pg on how to creat one
[17:44] <eagles0513875> !gpg
[17:44] <ubotu> gpg is the GNU Privacy Guard.  See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto and class #8 on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClassroomTranscripts
[17:50] <eagles0513875> when generating a gpg key do i have to use sudo
[17:51] <Nightrose> no
[17:52] <apachelogger> Nightrose: do you know whether tonio is working on a fix for bug 191264
[17:52] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 191264 in kdesudo-kde4 "KDE4: sudo removes /usr/lib/kde4/bin from PATH: e.g. "sudo kate" fails" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/191264
[17:52] <Nightrose> apachelogger: not that I heard of but that doesn't have to mean anything
[18:03] <eagles0513875> apachelogger: ill be back on later im getting there im goign to confirm my pgp key now before i leave
[18:08] <yuriy> awen-: http://people.brandeis.edu/~ykozlov/temp/kde-guidance_0.8.0svn20080103-0ubuntu15.debdiff
[18:13] <awen-> yuriy: doesn't that make the strings intranslatable?
[18:14] <awen-> yuriy: i don't know if it works in this case ... but have you seen the kubuntu_22_userconfig_utf8.patch , that was a somewhat similar problem
[18:14] <yuriy> awen-: well i'm not sure on that one cause i don't know much about i18n. i know current translations still work
[18:15] <yuriy> yeah i meant to ask you what the "similar" bug was
[18:16] <yuriy> ah so according to that patch translations should still work but it might not get the encoding right?
[18:16] <yuriy> or why is the .encode(locale.getpreferredencoding())) necessary?
[18:17] <yuriy> either way, it wasn't doing that before
[18:17] <yuriy> what i've changed is essentially instead of
[18:17] <yuriy> item = unicode(i18n("thing")); comobobox.insertitem(item)
[18:17] <awen-> yuriy: i'm not really that much into python+i18l ... that patch fixed a bug happening on the french language
[18:18] <yuriy> it's now item = "thing"; combobox.insertitem(unicode(i18n(item)))
[18:19] <awen-> yuriy: does that really make a difference... scary
[18:19] <yuriy> awen-: well i would hope that doesn't make a difference as far as i18n goes
[18:19] <yuriy> awen-: but since the items are dictionary keys they really shouldn't be translated
[18:20] <yuriy> and apparently can't, even
[18:20] <yuriy> hence the KeyError
[18:21] <awen-> yuriy: I see ... the strings kind of had a double use
[18:25] <awen-> yuriy: do we know which languages were affected?
[18:26] <yuriy> awen-: not really. but i would think any non-english and it just shows that nobody uses it
[18:26] <yuriy> or maybe french is just special and collects all the i18n issues while all other languages are fine
[18:26] <awen-> yuriy: he... sounds reasonable
[18:27] <awen-> yuriy: I still have the french hardy test install ... so I'll just test it there if you haven't done so already?
[18:28] <yuriy> awen-: go ahead. i had smarter test it yesterday but more wouldn't hurt, especially if you actually try to change some of the color settings
[18:31] <JontheEchidna> Where does a program reading a .desktop file look for the icon given by the icon=x entry?
[18:31] <JontheEchidna> assuming that an absolute path isn't given
[18:32] <JontheEchidna> /usr/share/icons or /usr/share/app-install/icons?
[18:32] <jussio1> the first one iirc, but i may be wrong.
[18:33] <JontheEchidna> I installed a plasmoid that doesn't install its icon by default
[18:33] <JontheEchidna> so I manually added to both places after it didn't work with /usr/icon
[18:34] <JontheEchidna> but now I've deleted it from both places
[18:34] <JontheEchidna> and it still shows up
[18:34] <JontheEchidna> is there some sort of cache I'd need to delete?
[18:35] <JontheEchidna> or would that question be better suited to #plasma?
[19:20] <awen-> yuriy: it works fine in hardy+french ... couldn't break it
[19:21] <awen-> yuriy: you'll ask Riddell for an upload when he gets back?
[19:24] <yuriy> awen-: sure
[19:51] <jussio1> hrm, does kde4 system settings not have admin mode? its been asked several times and I have no idea...
[19:52] <fdoving> it's missing the guidance modules if that's what you mean.
[19:52] <uga> jussio1: exactly. Old methods were deprecated before any new method for administering rights were added
[19:52] <uga> jussio1: sort of "okay, lets replace existing features with vapourware"
[19:53] <uga> fdoving: he means that if you go to managing kdm, there's no option to get administration rights and alter settings
[19:53] <uga> for example
[19:54] <uga> they used to be there, but they got replaced, given it wasn't the "right way" to do it
[19:54] <_Sime> there was a recent discussion about this on kde-core-devel.
[19:54] <uga> it's old stuff. The intention was to handle security stuff in a backend
[19:55] <uga> rather than gui. But what I can't understand is why a feature gets removed before a solution exists
[19:55] <uga> and then released
[19:55] <uga> sigh
[19:55]  * jussio1 cries
[19:56] <uga> jussio1: you can run systemsettings as root
[19:56] <uga> for now
[19:57] <uga> jussio1: enter konsole, sudo su; export XAUTHORITY=/home/jussio/.Xauthority; systemsettings
[19:57] <uga> and you can alter settings
[20:03] <fdoving> uga: removing stuff one doesn't want to keep early in the development cycle is smart. that way one can't just say "good enough for this release" etc.
[20:04] <uga> fdoving: but then removing very necessary stuff and releasing is... not that smart
[20:04] <uga> it's a good reason not to release. A showstopper
[20:04] <fdoving> pfft.
[20:04] <fdoving> look at releases as development milestones.
[20:04] <uga> fdoving: would you let your mum touch kde4 in the current status?
[20:04] <uga> I only suggest it to my worse enemies
[20:05] <fdoving> a release isn't a release in the commercial-release way.
[20:05] <uga> heh, you have a different pov from mine, it seems
[20:05] <fdoving> uga: sure, mom, dad and my brother use kde4 in kubuntu for daily computer stuff.
[20:05] <fdoving> have been for quite some time.
[20:05] <uga> when I first released an app, it was named pre-alpha, and was rather rock solid, 0.1-pre-alpha
[20:06] <uga> I was ashamed to release anything that wouldn't work
[20:06] <uga> fdoving: they don't administer their boxes then
[20:06] <uga> or your mom is a brilliant geek ;)
[20:06] <fdoving> what is there to administer?
[20:07] <uga> anything that doesn't work out of the box
[20:07] <fdoving> they already have user accounts, printer is working, has been since dapper, network just works, what is there to administer? - once the computer is working there is rarely any need to administer anything.
[20:08] <uga> well, then remove systemsettings from the release =)
[20:08] <uga> what's the point on keeping it ;)
[20:08] <cheguevara_> lol
[20:08] <fdoving> my point is that you can't delay a release with a bunch of nice features just because 1 or 2 didn't finish in time for the release.
[20:09] <fdoving> in a software company, of course you can.
[20:09] <fdoving> you can force people to work on specific parts of the project too.
[20:09] <fdoving> but you can't do that in our world. atleast very limited.
[20:10] <uga> personally I wouldn't have removed the original methods. it wasn't that bad
[20:10] <uga> security was handled in the gui part, but it's been done that way for many releases anyway
[20:10] <Artemis_Fowl> seele: ping?
[20:10] <fdoving> about time it's thrown out :)
[20:11] <uga> fdoving: I see more of a problem with timed sudos that are default in *buntu
[20:11] <uga> I had to manually disable that
[20:11] <fdoving> the 5min timeout?
[20:11] <fdoving> yep.
[20:11] <uga> yes
[20:11] <fdoving> it's only for that particular tty, so i don't really see the problem.
[20:11] <fdoving> but i understand what you mean.
[20:12] <uga> fdoving: tty heh,... the desktop, you mean? =)
[20:12] <uga> you enter password once and you are root forever
[20:12] <fdoving> i mean you can't open a konsole then enter sudo and get a root-shell without entering a password even if you did run kdesudo <something> 2 min before.
[20:12] <uga> open for any gui application that wants to hack your box
[20:13] <uga> fdoving: iirc that used to work
[20:13] <uga> or at least worked through kdesudo
[20:13] <uga> on the same desktop, I mean, not on a different tty
[20:14] <fdoving> yep, but you can't use ptys either.
[20:14] <fdoving> you will however be able to run kdesudo 'app' twice.
[20:15] <fdoving> so yeah, it should probably always popup a confirmation dialog even if the password is remembered.
[20:15] <fdoving> kdesudo that is.
[20:15] <uga> yes, I agree on that
[20:15] <fdoving> my opinion is that kdesudo is utter crap anyway.
[20:15] <uga> a popup might be nice
[20:15] <uga> just a warning
[20:15] <uga> "app foo is trying to become root"
[20:16] <fdoving> maybe it should provide a tray-icon that sits there until the timeout is finished or something.
[20:16] <fdoving> and provide a way to 'forget-password' with a rightclick-menu.
[20:16] <uga> uhm, intersting concept
[20:17] <uga> btw, is there a good way to recover the "don't ask me again" options easily?
[20:17] <fdoving> depends on the app i guess.
[20:18] <uga> sometimes I feel like I shouldn't have checked one of those, but then going through the kderc files is rather tough
[20:18] <uga> I was wondering if there were plans for a centralised thing for those
[20:19] <fdoving> not that i'm aware of, but i'm not up2date on mailinglists and future plans.
[20:19] <jussio1> uga, had to step out for a bit, but thankyou :)
[20:20] <jussio1> uga: that just gives me a root terminal. ?
[20:21] <uga> jussio1: if you run systemsettings from there, you'll have root privileges on the app
[20:21] <uga> make sure you did the XAUTHORITY thing, else systemsettings app won't be able to access the display
[20:22] <uga> oh, I see... don't follow the line exactly
[20:22] <jussio1> hehe
[20:22] <uga> type every command separated by ";" manually, one by one
[20:22]  * jussio1 feels silly
[20:23] <uga> it was my fault. I didn't notice that after sudo su, the rest of commands wouldnt' have been executed until you exited root account
[20:25] <jussio1> argh
[20:26] <jussio1> everytime i try to paste after sudo su, it exits :/
[20:26] <stdin> why would you use "sudo su" ?
[20:27] <cheguevara_> lol
[20:28] <fdoving> i can't repeat it enough, icecream rocks for huge compilejobs.
[20:28] <jussi01> stdin: see up ^
[20:28] <stdin> jussi01: I mean why not "sudo -i"?
[20:28] <stdin> "sudo su" runs auths twice, once for sudo and once for su
[20:29] <apachelogger> stdin: wouldn't sudo -i preserve the env vars?
[20:29] <jussio1> aye /me is a bit slow tonight
[20:31] <stdin> "It also initializes the environment, leaving TERM unchanged, setting HOME, SHELL, USER, LOGNAME, and PATH, and unsetting all other environment variables."
[20:34] <fdoving> which is what you usually always want.
[20:35] <fdoving> kdesudo uses a bunch of arguments lets see..
[20:35] <jussio1> hrm, I run: "sudo -i" then "export XAUTHORITY=/home/jussi/.Xauthority" then "systemsettings" and it gives me kde3 system settings...
[20:35] <stdin> set the PATH
[20:35] <uga> stdin: lol, because you can configure sudo not to ask password for certain accounts
[20:36] <stdin> /usr/lib/kde4/bin
[20:36] <uga> stdin: out of habit
[20:36] <ScottK2> awen-: Around?
[20:36] <stdin> uga: you used to just have to add yourself to the "sudo" group and it would not ask
[20:36] <jussio1> brb
[20:36] <fdoving> kdesudo uses: sudo -H -S -p
[20:36] <awen-> ScottK2: yeah
[20:37] <ScottK2> awen-: Has there been any discussion about trying again on displayconfig?
[20:37] <uga> stdin: oh well, I'd edit sudoers straight
[20:37] <stdin> -H just keeps $HOME the rest is for getting the password
[20:38] <fdoving> stdin: -H resets home.
[20:38] <fdoving> that's the idea.
[20:38] <stdin> erm, yeah. that's what I probably meant
[20:38] <fdoving> yep :)
[20:38] <awen-> ScottK2: Riddell is away this weekend too .... but yuriy and I have just made a new upload ready
[20:38] <stdin> stops the ... is owned by uid 1000.... messages
[20:38] <ScottK2> awen-: Is it tested?
[20:38] <fdoving> the first versions of kdesudo didn't have that, which made it break stuff.
[20:39] <uga> by creating rc files as root under .kde, yes
[20:39] <ScottK2> awen-: If you can email me a debdiff, I might be able to upload it tonight?
[20:39] <uga> obviously it broke stuff ;)
[20:39] <fdoving> yep.
[20:39] <awen-> ScottK2: I've tested it ... but I would be happy if you would test it too
[20:39] <awen-> ScottK2: here: http://people.brandeis.edu/~ykozlov/temp/kde-guidance_0.8.0svn20080103-0ubuntu15.debdiff
[20:39] <ScottK2> K
[20:40] <awen-> ScottK2: it includes the FFE'd change to power manager as well as a fix to wineconfig (doesn't work on non-english systems)
[20:40] <ScottK2> cool.
[20:40] <ScottK2> Got it.
[20:41] <awen-> ScottK2: I've tested the changed patch for the no xorg myself ... but please; do test also :)
[20:41] <ScottK2> I will.
[20:41] <awen-> ScottK2: thanks a lot
[20:42]  * awen- really learned something new about the python api
[20:43] <ScottK2> I'm finally in a hotel with internet.  Dunno how much access I'll have.  There's a lot of pent up demand for internet and I've got the only laptop.
[20:43] <ScottK2> Yeah.  I knew you changed the internal api, but it didn't occur to me that other programs used that.
[20:43] <ScottK2> I viewed it as internal.
[20:43] <awen-> ScottK2: he ... sounds like you are a long way from real civilization
[20:44] <ScottK2> We were, but we're in Orlando, FL (near Disney World) now.
[20:45] <awen-> ScottK2: did occur to me as internal too ... and I also thought that with dual return values it was optional to "catch" the complete set of return values; but no, that is not the case
[20:47]  * ScottK2 heads out for food.  I'll give it a shot later.
[20:47] <awen-> ScottK2: okay ... thanks again
[21:15] <Riddell> doods
[21:17] <apachelogger> wooohoooo
[21:17]  * apachelogger hugs Riddell
[21:17] <Tm_T> Riddell: sehr?
[21:18] <_Sime> mmm... smb:/ in dolphin crashes it fast.
[21:18] <Nightrose> the Riddell is back... :P
[21:18] <Tm_T> <3
[21:18] <awen-> welcome back Riddell
[21:19] <Riddell> aww, you missed me
[21:19] <Tm_T> Riddell: just so you know, my summer project will start soon after hardy release, financial support or not, or otherwise I will run out of time
[21:19] <Tm_T> Riddell: we always do :))
[21:19] <davmor2> What Riddell was away.......
[21:19] <apachelogger> hm
[21:19]  * apachelogger gives davmor2 a cookie
[21:19] <Tm_T> Riddell: having family issues that is, the good ones :))
[21:20]  * davmor2 yay I got a cookie, I got a cookie :)
[21:20] <Riddell> _Sime: works here (KDE 3)
[21:20] <_Sime> KDE 4 here
[21:21] <_Sime> I upgraded my laptop to hardy today.
[21:21] <_Sime> only had one issue. sudo broke after my hosts file was modified during upgrade.
[21:22] <Riddell> _Sime: what got modified?
[21:24] <_Sime> Riddell: I've called the laptop 'astro'. I guess the system name was set to that too. '127.0.0.1 ... astro' was removed from /etc/hosts. This broke sudo.
[21:24] <_Sime> sudo was looking for 'astro' but didn't find it.
[21:26] <_Sime> it looks like some of my old /etc/hosts was preserved. but the localhost line wasn't.
[21:26]  * _Sime is looking into PolicyKit and thinking about Guidance 2.0.
[21:31] <Riddell> _Sime: can you report a bug on update-manager ?
[21:31] <Riddell> there may already be one
[21:31] <Riddell> Tm_T: great, looking forward to it
[21:31] <Tm_T> Riddell: I am too, I have CV sent to one place who were interested about financing me but no news yet
[21:32] <Tm_T> Riddell: I also will try to get into Akademy, I hope that really does happen too :)
[21:37] <jjesse> afternoon
[22:15] <apachelogger> Riddell: can you please sponsor the debdiff in bug 207704
[22:15] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 207704 in amarok "Amarok partially "forgets" media devices on close" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/207704
[22:19] <Riddell> apachelogger: yep
[22:20] <apachelogger> Riddell: thank you
[22:22] <_Sime> Riddell: I'm thinking about mountconfig. Is fuse something I could expect to see in a standard kubuntu install in the future?
[22:23] <_Sime> Riddell: I'm thinking about mounting smb etc in home dirs using fuse.
[22:23] <stdin> should I put qscintilla2 in the k-m-kde4 ppa? (for kdebindings-kde4)
[22:28] <blueyed> apachelogger, Riddell: there's another patch for amarok, please include it. I won't update it a 4th or 5th time.
[22:31] <apachelogger> blueyed: where :P
[22:31] <blueyed> apachelogger: you've been on it yourself this weekend.. (IIRC), search for bugs with patches in amarok.
[22:32] <blueyed> apachelogger: but it's not that important. just ogg stuff and a feature.
[22:32] <apachelogger> bug 201291 ?
[22:32] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 201291 in mime-support "Add ogv (video) and oga (audio) as recognized extension for Ogg Theora and Ogg Vorbis, respectively" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/201291
[22:32] <Riddell> _Sime: I don't know anything much about fuse but I expect it'll stay wherever it is now
[22:33] <blueyed> apachelogger: yes
[22:33] <apachelogger> waaah, I need to fix the kate preference
[22:33] <Riddell> stdin: can do yes
[22:33] <apachelogger> it's simply awful when you click a debdiff and openoffice opens ;-)
[22:33] <stdin> oke-doky
[22:33] <Riddell> erk, openoffice?
[22:33] <Riddell> never seen that
[22:34] <apachelogger> Riddell: it probably only happens when going from kde3 to kde4
[22:34] <apachelogger> blueyed: I don't have audio/flac in my mimetype list
[22:36] <apachelogger> well, doesn't really matter
[22:36] <apachelogger> Riddell: last debdiff in bug 103227 please
[22:36] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 103227 in amarok "Add last.fm "recommendations" playlist" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/103227
[22:36] <fdoving> nite.
[22:39] <Riddell> apachelogger: ok
[22:42] <ScottK2> Riddell: I got permission from slangasek to try a non-api breaking upload of kde-guidance.  I'll try and get it done later tonight.
[22:43] <yuriy> ScottK2: oh i was about to bug Riddell about that :P
[22:43] <ScottK2> yuriy: awen- gave me the debdiff a couple of hours ago.
[22:43] <yuriy> yep i noticed
[22:45] <stdin> apachelogger: btw, remember that bzr repo of changes we talked about a while ago? well I have something preliminary up at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~tsimpson/+junk/kde4.0.x/files
[22:47] <apachelogger> stdin: looks good
[22:48] <stdin> I think it's easier to do it package->file that have one big file, saves time when searching
[22:48] <apachelogger> yeah
[22:49] <apachelogger> stdin: please add it as branch for kubuntu-members-kde4 and inform the kubuntu-members-kde4 list
[22:49] <yuriy> hmm anybody use kooka? is bug 216929 a bug or feature?
[22:49] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 216929 in kdegraphics "Kooka wants to select a webcam" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/216929
[22:50] <smarter> If anyone has time to fill a FFe, konversation fix taken from upstream for bug #60898 is here: http://smarter.free.fr/pkg/konversation_dcc_crash.debdiff
[22:50] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 60898 in konversation "Konversation Crashes on DCC Chat" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/60898
[22:50] <smarter> otherwise, I'll do it tomorrow
[22:51] <smarter> package is here for tests: http://ppa.launchpad.net/smarter/ubuntu/pool/main/k/konversation/konversation_1.0.1-4ubuntu5~ppa1_i386.deb
[22:52] <smarter> g'night everybody
[22:53] <yuriy> why does a crash fix need a FFe?
[22:53] <stdin> apachelogger: hmm, how exactly do I do that, teams can't have a +junk apparently
[22:54] <smarter> yuriy: don't know, apachelogger said I should do one (:
[22:55] <apachelogger> stdin: register a proper branch - 'backport-resources' or something
[22:56] <apachelogger> yuriy: meh, I wanted to give smarter some practice in creating a ffe request :P
[22:56] <stdin> apparently I have to create a project first...
[22:58] <apachelogger> stdin: maybe only admins can creat branches
[22:59] <apachelogger> stdin: team admins that are ;-)
[22:59] <stdin> well that's Hobbsee or Riddell then
[23:08] <ScottK2> awen- or yuriy: Still around?
[23:08] <yuriy> ScottK2: for a little bit
[23:08] <awen-> ScottK2: jep
[23:08] <ScottK2> OK.  I'm reviewing the changes now.
[23:09] <ScottK2> There's some stuff at the end that's inline changes that looks inadvertent, but harmless.
[23:10] <ScottK2> In guidance_power_manager_ui.py, notify.py, tooltip.py and kcm_wineconfig.cpp
[23:11]  * awen- looks
[23:11] <yuriy> yeah don't know what that MODULE_DIR thing is but i think my or jr's homedir is equally incorrect ; )
[23:11] <ScottK2> Which of you did the i18 fix.
[23:11] <yuriy> ScottK2: wineconfig is me
[23:12] <awen-> yuriy: did you build in source-dir?
[23:12] <yuriy> i did run debuild in the package source dir
[23:16] <awen-> ScottK2: you can probably just either remove it from the debdiff or ignore it
[23:16] <ScottK2> I removed it.
[23:24] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: btw, if you need a revu, poke me a bit
[23:36] <awen-> I'll be off soon ... any last minute questions ScottK2?
[23:36] <ScottK2> awen-: Not at the moment.  Test build just finished and I'm about to install/test.
[23:37] <awen-> then goodnight everyone
[23:51] <apachelogger> oh, right
[23:51]  * apachelogger needs to testbuild 1.4.9.1 on gutsy