[00:44] <DanaG> I wish Ubuntu had the time-varying wallpaper Fedora 8 and 9 have.
[00:44] <DanaG> I tried Fedora in a VM, and that was actually the only thing that really stood out as amazing, frankly.
[00:48] <_MMA_> DanaG: Ubuntu does.
[00:48] <DanaG> The XML wallpapers?
[00:49] <_MMA_> It has the ability.
[00:49] <DanaG> Wow, somehow I think I missed it ever appearing in changelogs.
[00:49] <DanaG> I guess I just need to find some wallpapers that use that.
[00:49] <_MMA_> It's part of GNOME.
[00:50] <_MMA_> No. You make a xml file that references the wallpapers.
[00:50] <_MMA_> It's actually not that cool.
[00:50] <_MMA_> It's really CPU intensive.
[00:50] <DanaG> But it only changes once per hour, on the Fedora one.
[00:50] <_MMA_> Still.
[00:50] <_MMA_> And...
[00:51] <_MMA_> The transition it too jerky.
[00:51] <_MMA_> Its not smooth at all.
[00:51] <_MMA_> At least any setups I've seen.
[00:52] <_MMA_> I sent a email to the ml on this months ago. An example setup is there as well.
[00:54] <DanaG> Hmm, what list name?
[00:55] <DanaG> (gnome-something, most likely.)
[00:58] <DanaG> That's odd... Fedora 9's GDM has a sort of panel at the bottom with a gnome-power-manager in it.
[00:58] <_MMA_> If Im in this channel Im talking about this channels list.
[00:58] <DanaG> aah.
[01:00] <_MMA_> I also wish this: "DanaG: I wish Ubuntu had the time-varying wallpaper Fedora 8 and 9 have." would have been this: "DanaG: Does Ubuntu have the time-varying wallpaper Fedora 8 and 9 has?"
[01:01] <DanaG> Good point -- it's a better tone of voice.
[01:02] <troy_s> DanaG: Honestly, Fedora 8 and 9 are junk regarding design, so you probably aren't going to find too many supporters.
[01:02] <DanaG> I don't like the artwork, but I do like the idea of the wallpaper following the time of day.
[01:02] <troy_s> DanaG: Time varying is a novel idea that is rather pathetic in the incarnation present in Fedora 8/9.
[01:02] <troy_s> DanaG: Indeed.  _MMA_ had a time varying script I believe.
[01:03] <_MMA_> DanaG: I just feel questions are better to ask before making assumptions. ;)
[01:05] <_MMA_> troy_s: If Nautilus put drawing the desktop off to a GFX card the effect would be cool. But even with a dual-core setup the effect is too choppy to be nice.
[01:05] <DanaG> dream.wincustomize.com -- some nice there, but some ugly.
[01:05] <DanaG> And painful on the CPU.
[01:05] <_MMA_> Anyway, back to the family.
[01:06] <troy_s> _MMA_: Yeah.  It really needs to be tabled with GNOME, but judging from the views I have seen expressed by key Tango / GNOME guys, it is going to be 'wait till someone else does it first' syndrome
[01:08] <DanaG> What was the title of your mailing list post?  I have that list in thunderbird.
[01:10] <troy_s> DanaG: _MMA_ ?
[01:10] <DanaG> yeah.
[01:14] <DanaG> gmane.linux.ubuntu.artwork
[01:19] <DanaG> Anyway, I can't seem to find anything.
[01:38] <savvas> everyone has their login window in the correct resolution?
[01:40] <savvas> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/150938
[01:40] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 150938 in human-theme "Screen resolution problems at login screen" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[01:59] <DanaG> http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Tree+Slideshow+Wallpaper+for+Fedora?content=74639
[02:06] <troy_s> DanaG: Honestly, you are going to need to bring more to the table than pure opinion.  Maybe work / output, knowledge, etc.
[02:08] <DanaG> Hmm, I'm not much of an artist myself... I don't have an ideas of what I'd create.
[02:15] <troy_s> DanaG: Well you have to understand that while I value opinion on created works etc, the value of opinion is just that -- not much (as you can expect there are thousands of free opinions on Ubuntu design / art in the forums).
[02:15] <troy_s> DanaG: Bear in mind that art and design is ultimately about audience and goals, and opinions are rooted firmly in the reality that you are a single audience member.
[02:16] <DanaG> Right.
[02:16] <troy_s> DanaG: Perhaps researching / studying / learning about design would give you a more fruitful approach to understanding how all of the pieces fit together?
[02:16] <troy_s> DanaG: And again, I only offer that up as you will get very disillusioned if you expect anyone to go 'YES' -- as that isn't the nature of the field.
[02:16] <DanaG> Hmm, I'm more the engineering side than the artistic type, but I guess I should exercise the "opposite" part of my brain some time.
[02:17] <troy_s> DanaG: Yes... bear in mind that it was only a few hundred years ago that those brilliant minds of the Renaissance did both.
[02:17] <troy_s> DanaG: (Mind you, we have too many engineers / developers and not enough trained artists / designers)
[02:30] <savvas> figures, no one reverts to blackish titlebar instead of orange :P
[02:30] <savvas> (no offense) :)
[02:30] <DanaG> huh?  I think I missed something there.
[02:31] <DanaG> ... and I'm going to go to dinner now.
[02:32] <savvas> i'm talking about the orange titlebar, it's should be darker
[02:54] <DanaG> Oh, in my theme I screenshotted a while ago?
[02:54] <DanaG> Yeah, I am unusual.  Another way I'm unusual:  If I had to get a desktop again, I'd want a keyboard with a touchpad.
[04:31] <troy_s> savvas: "Should be darker" again, is subjective.  What do you base your knowledge on?  What users did you test?  I say that because what _appears_ to be a simple suggestion from a single person is actually far more complicated under the skin.
[04:48] <DanaG> Oh boy, carpet cleaning tomorrow.  It's like a "chinese fire drill" for furniture, in a way.
[04:52] <DanaG> ... and it reminded me of just how big my Z-5300 speakers' sub is.
[10:43] <volvoguy> hey all. what's going on these days in the art world?
[10:45] <volvoguy> anybody know if there's going to be any new artwork (themes/backgrounds/etc) in the final Hardy release?
[10:46] <kwwii> there already is a new wallpaper and gdm
[10:46] <kwwii> it is pretty much final now
[10:46] <tonic-pushcart> ^_^
[10:47] <volvoguy> it's crazy. i started this group and i never recognize anyone in here anymore. at least you guys are getting farther with actually getting community art into the releases. in my day the canonical folks barely acknowledged we existed.
[10:47] <volvoguy> is it the heron (or bird-like thing) that's new? i missed a release in there somewhere due to medical issues.
[10:48] <kwwii> yes, the ubuntu chicken is the new black
[10:49] <volvoguy> now that support for it is a lot better, i'm hoping some SVG art will start being accepted. (that was my big deal in the early days)
[10:49] <volvoguy> cool, cool.
[10:49] <kwwii> all the art was svg this time around
[10:50] <volvoguy> really? the "chicken" was SVG?
[10:50] <tonic-pushcart> distributed as svg?
[10:50] <kwwii> but for performance reasons bitmaps are still used (you do not want to be rendering blur and such)
[10:50] <tonic-pushcart> yep
[10:50] <volvoguy> huh. i'll have to check that out.
[10:51] <volvoguy> i just did a cool carbon fiber background (10x10px tile actually) that shouldn't be too resource heavy.
[10:52] <volvoguy> a company in Italy is giving me a carbon fiber electric guitar (in exchage for a little office/art work) due to a recent disability, so i've had carbon fiber on the brain lately. :-)
[10:54] <tonic-pushcart> kwwii: whats going on in the usplash front these days? I've heard rumours about splashy for intrepid
[10:54] <volvoguy> are you guys still trying to use ubuntu-art.org (i think) for new submissions or is everyone still mostly using gnome-looks.org?
[11:02] <kwwii> tonic-pushcart: not sure yet...I think it would depend on whether we have a dev who can handle it
[11:02] <volvoguy> i haven't really done anything with themes (GTK and/org compiz - if there's a difference). are there any graphical theme-building apps you guys would recommend? maybe a good reference/tutorial website to check out? it's alway bugged me that you can't just change the colors of a given theme - you have to find a whole new theme with the colors you want (and maybe it'll be the theme you want).
[11:03] <kwwii> volvoguy: there are bits and pieces of info but nothing that amazed me to be honest - I guess it depends on what you want to do and how much you already know technically speaking
[11:04] <tonic-pushcart> kwwii: in what way do you mean, maintaining the splashy deb or an ubuntu-theme for splashy?
[11:06] <volvoguy> kwwii: i know graphics - and i know XML (which I assume the themes use) - but i've only doodled with editing existing themes. I've never tried to create my own. is it mostly editing text files by hand still and piecing things together like that? i was sure that by now there'd be some kind of theme editor around - like the Windowblind guys have in the Windows world.
[11:06] <tonic-pushcart> volvoguy: some GTK themes can have their colours changed through the theme configuration utility provided in recent releases of GNOME
[11:06] <tonic-pushcart> volvoguy: the basic clearlooks theme is configurable in this way
[11:07] <volvoguy> tonic-pushcart: i assume those aren't installed by default since i can't say i've seen them.
[11:07] <tonic-pushcart> volvoguy: of crouse if you want to go further just jump into ~/.themes/ and start playing around with the themes in there (if you've downloaded any).
[11:08] <volvoguy> tonic-pushcart: is that "basic clearlooks" like "clearlooks classic", or the more up-to-date SVG version? the latest clearlooks is one of my favorites.
[11:08] <tonic-pushcart> volvoguy: moment
[11:10] <volvoguy> tonic-pushcart: i haven't downloaded any for the last few releases (I do laptop testing and do full reinstalls with every dev release - and sometimes nightly releases). my installs don't last long enough to merit a whole lot of customization. hardy is looking so good though that i think i'm going to start keeping two installs on my laptop - one to use and one for testing.
[11:12] <tonic-pushcart> volvoguy: "ClearlooksClassic" supports it as does "Clearlooks"
[11:12] <volvoguy> tonic-pushcart: nice!
[11:13] <volvoguy> tonic-pushcart: do you remember what the theme config utility is, off the top of your head?
[11:13] <tonic-pushcart> it is a part of the theme preferences dialogue the comes shipped with GNOME
[11:14] <tonic-pushcart> System->Preferences->Appearance
[11:14] <tonic-pushcart> then click on the Customize button
[11:14] <volvoguy> tonic-pushcart: really!? i don't remember seeing any place to configure colors there. (i don't have my Ubuntu laptop handy ATM).
[11:15] <volvoguy> tonic-pushcart: definitely going to check that out though. thanks! (i'm doing a clean install as we speak actually)
[11:16] <tonic-pushcart> there is a tab called 'Colors' in the 'Customize Theme' window where you can pick a specific control theme
[11:16] <tonic-pushcart> sigh that read wrong
[11:17] <volvoguy> i'm going to boot into the live cd and take a quick peek.
[11:17] <tonic-pushcart> volvoguy: moment
[11:18] <tonic-pushcart> volvoguy: yeah go ahead    my net connection is capped at the moment so I can't find an image guide quickly
[11:19] <volvoguy> tonic-pushcart: booting now.
[11:26] <volvoguy> ok tonic-pushcart, i'm in the colors tab of the "customize theme" window. the default for clearlooks is a blue color and the only thing blue there that i see is "selected items" - which i assume means selected text. am i wrong? i only ever glanced over this tab because it didn't look like it had nearly enough items to edit the colors of a whole theme.
[11:27] <volvoguy> yeah -that seems to have done what i thought. just changed selected things (text, icons, etc).
[11:27] <tonic-pushcart> volvoguy: well it is kinda a guide    the theme developers can use the colours however they wish in the gtk theme script
[11:27] <tonic-pushcart> so just have a play and see what you get
[11:28] <volvoguy> ok. if i want to copy the theme over to my home directory to play around, where are the system themes located?
[11:30] <tonic-pushcart> /usr/share/themes
[11:31] <volvoguy> k. thanks.
[11:31] <tonic-pushcart> and user themes are found in ~/.themes
[11:33] <tonic-pushcart> I can't remember if the appearance capplet will pick up a new theme in the directory while it is running (except those added through its interface)
[11:33] <tonic-pushcart> I suspect not
[11:34] <tonic-pushcart> volvoguy: well have fun
[11:34] <tonic-pushcart> volvoguy: you might find this interesting and useful though... http://arstechnica.com/journals/linux.ars/2007/08/21/how-to-make-a-gtk-theme-that-uses-multiple-theme-engines
[11:35] <volvoguy> tonic-pushcart: yeah - it picked it  up as soon as i copied it there. ooh -thanks for the link. hopefully i'll be back in here a bit more as my health improves. i look forward to it!
[11:37] <tonic-pushcart> volvoguy: okay well, take care   see you around.
[11:37] <volvoguy> thanks for the help guys!
[11:42] <zorglu_> hi
[11:42] <zorglu_> i would like to make my own version of this kind of icon/badge. http://www.opera.com/img/download/new/dl-lin.png im not a graphist at all. i am a coder. any advice on the easiet way ?
[11:45] <kwwii> zorglu_: just look at exactly how that pic is made and redraw it with your text, colors, etc
[11:45] <zorglu_> kwwii: ok, once i got that what happen ?
[11:46] <kwwii> your done, export it as png and use it
[11:47] <zorglu_> kwwii: which software would you use ? based on the fact, i dont know how to use it, so i would have to learn it just for this icon
[11:48] <zorglu_> im even considering writing the icon in svg :) closer to my own skills, aka coder :)
[11:48] <tonic-pushcart> inkscape
[11:49] <tonic-pushcart> you could re colour it and clean it up in the gimp too   but I would be wary of copyright issues
[11:52] <tonic-pushcart> zorglu_: I think this is what you really need though http://howto.nicubunu.ro/shiny_web_buttons_inkscape/
[11:52] <zorglu_> tonic-pushcart: seems good indead :)
[11:56] <tonic-pushcart> zorglu_: in fact there is a inkscape tutorials blog
[11:56] <tonic-pushcart> zorglu_: http://inkscapetutorials.wordpress.com/
[12:02] <volvoguy> zorglu_: if you can't figure it out yourself and it's just one graphic you need, i could probably whip it up for you really quick.
[12:05] <tonic-pushcart> night all
[12:05] <volvoguy> g'night
[12:07] <tonic-pushcart> :)
[13:33] <zorglu_> volvoguy: ultra nice of you, but i need to be flexible. i need like various color and various texts. but thanks a lot for the offer :)
[14:29] <volvoguy> zorglu_: (sorry for the delay) no problem. sounds like your best bet is SVG - easily done in Inkscape and then edited by hand/script afterward to your heart's content. :) let me know if you need any help.
[14:30] <zorglu_> volvoguy: as you are volunteering, ... i am editing the svg by hand. i got a rounded rectangle. but how do i put a text inside ?:)
[14:31] <zorglu_> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/63174/ <- volvoguy my powerfull svg :)\
[14:33] <volvoguy> zorglu_: out of curiosity, did you look at Inkscape yet?
[14:33] <zorglu_> volvoguy: yep. but the .svg produced are 'bloated'
[14:34] <zorglu_> volvoguy: aka contained a lot of stuff which arent human-friendly
[14:34] <zorglu_> http://www.croczilla.com/svg/samples/ <- im reading this and trying to see what i can do
[14:35] <zorglu_> currently i would be happy, with a rounded rectangle and a text inside. nothing fancy
[14:35] <zorglu_> it would just allow me to go forward on my website :) originally im a p2p coder. so learning inkscape is not one of my primary goal :)
[14:37] <volvoguy> i understand about a bit of bloat - any WYSIWYG editor isn't going to be as concise as a human. is this something you're going to be manipulating with a script and rendering as a raster graphic for display?
[14:38] <volvoguy> i'm just trying to understand the final product.
[14:38] <zorglu_> volvoguy: exactly. i will get a script which will get various size, various color, various text. the goal is to get a badge like http://www.linkedin.com/profile?promoteProfile=&trk=mypro_badges
[14:39] <zorglu_> but in my case this is not static. aka when you load the page, you get a badge, then this badge content changes depending if you are 'registered' to this stuff or not
[14:40] <volvoguy> what about just HTML and CSS?
[14:40] <volvoguy> you could do a badge without even rendering to bitmap.
[14:45] <volvoguy> zorglu_: (i'm working as i'm picking your brain - i'm not trying to change your mind or anything). :-)
[14:45] <zorglu_> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/63184/ <- volvoguy im doiing progress :)
[14:45] <zorglu_> volvoguy: cool :)
[14:46] <zorglu_> volvoguy: about pure html/css, this is a good idea. but my knowledge of html/css is ultra low too :)
[14:47] <zorglu_> volvoguy: moreover it may conflict in the page in which it is included, while a <img> is more neutral :)
[14:49] <volvoguy> zorglu_: gotcha. i think in HTML/CSS so that's always the first thing that comes to my mind. now, let me figure out pastebin and i'll show you the most basic way to include text (i think).
[14:49] <zorglu_> volvoguy: ok :)
[14:50] <volvoguy> zorglu_: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/63185/
[14:50] <volvoguy> zorglu_: you might even be able to strip out a little more - but that's pretty basic there.
[14:51] <zorglu_> volvoguy: ok cool.looking
[14:53] <volvoguy> zorglu_: you can strip out the style and id too, but at some point you're probably going to need some of those things (the bloat) ;-) to make it look like anything and to be able to reference that part of the file.
[14:53] <zorglu_> xml:space="preserve" <- volvoguy do you know what this one mean ?
[14:54] <zorglu_> volvoguy: ok i think we are done on the .svg, now how do i convert this into a .png ? :)
[14:54] <volvoguy> zorglu_: no. SVG isn't worth hand editing to me so I just use Inkscape. that attrubute can't be removed though.
[14:55] <volvoguy> zorglu_: good question. :) i haven't had to do this on a server yet - again, I use Inkscape.
[14:55] <zorglu_> volvoguy: ok :)
[14:55] <volvoguy> there are lots of "somethingtosomething" kind of apps though.
[14:56] <volvoguy> zorglu_: to convert one file to another. you'd need to have the right libraries and stuff on the server.
[14:57] <volvoguy> zorglu_: maybe this? librsvg2-bin - command-line and graphical viewers for SVG files
[14:57] <zorglu_> volvoguy: yep. trying to see if 'convert' from imagemagick is able to do the job
[14:57] <volvoguy> zorglu_: not sure if imagemagick does vectors yet.
[14:58] <zorglu_> volvoguy: ok installing livrsvg2-bin then :)
[14:59] <zorglu_> $ rsvg vologuy.svg vologuy.png <- volvoguy, it worked :)
[15:02] <volvoguy> zorglu_: cool! googling around it looks like imagemagick can probably do it too - i just didn't see any examples.
[15:03] <volvoguy> zorglu_: and now you have to figure out how to make a script change the text before you render it. ;-)
[15:03] <zorglu_> volvoguy: this is the easy part :) at least for a coder like me :)
[15:04] <zorglu_> volvoguy: thanks a lot for your help :)
[15:04] <volvoguy> zorglu_: well good, i'll come find you when i need some coding help. :) you're welcome.
[15:04] <zorglu_> :)
[15:05] <volvoguy> zorglu_: now i have to go do some audio editing for a podcast. good luck!
[16:55] <_MMA_> http://news.softpedia.com/news/First-Look-The-GIMP-2-5-0-83090.shtml
[16:56] <kwwii> lol, at least they did it on an ubuntu machine
[16:56] <_MMA_> :P