=== fta_ is now known as fta
dholbachgood morning06:10
macogwwould "it uses gio now instead of gnomevfs and includes 3 bug fixes" be a compelling reason to update an app this close to release?06:30
macogwtwitux 0.61 was released on gnome.org 2 months ago, and it has that plus a few nice new features over 0.60 which is currently in the repos, so i was wondering if it would be updateable or not06:32
macogwer 1 month ago. i can do math, i swear06:32
=== asac_ is now known as asac
hggdhmorning all, and a question -- what does a SIGTRAP mean on __kernel_vsyscall?06:48
macogwim not sure that's a desktop question O_o06:48
hggdhmacogw: I know ;-) but since it happened with evolution-data-server...06:49
macogwman 7 signal says SIGTRAP        5        Core    Trace/breakpoint trap06:50
hggdhon a strace?06:50
hggdhand causing a kill??06:50
hggdhthis is bug 21693606:51
* macogw waits for ubotu06:52
macogwoh rihgt06:52
crevettebug #21693606:52
macogwwas just gonna /msg him06:52
crevetteit is asleep06:52
hggdhI get timeouts on ubotu06:53
macogwim waiting to see if launchpad times out in ff06:53
macogwhm...well since it says Trace in the description in man signal, i'm guessing that your killing strace is that...but idk how e-d-s caught it too06:55
macogwstrace had detached from it already, right?06:56
hggdhthat's my understanding, but I was not the one stracing it06:57
hggdhanyway, this is the very first I see on an unhandled SIGTRAP in the kernel06:57
hggdh(huh, but still in user space)06:58
crevetteasac: could you commit the icon face lift for network manager ?07:00
crevette... nm-applet rather07:00
macogwcrevette: icon face lift?07:01
macogwi wanna see!07:01
crevettethe icons provided by Opensus for instance07:04
crevettethis is tango styled icons07:04
proppySomeone knows where the source of libclearlooks.so are ?09:22
proppyI can't find them in the source package (gtk2-engines)09:23
davmor2cjwatson has just recommend I bring this to you.  I'm part of the testing team and on a fresh install 20080411 I have no deskbar or tracker applet nor do any of the autostart apps work when you plug in a camera/pda etc.  On checking it seems that all the options in System/Prefs/Removable Drives are empty11:56
Hobbseeseb128: poke12:29
Hobbseeseb128: which place do i pick, or how do i otherwise get, utc time?12:29
davmor2Hobbsee: london and -1hr12:31
davmor2I think12:31
seb128davmor2: deskbar and tracker have been removed in hardy, they were creating issues and slowing down system for no real win12:31
seb128davmor2: and the camera autostart is a known issue12:31
davmor2seb128: cool np's there then12:31
seb128davmor2: dunno about pda12:31
davmor2seb128: when I used to plug in a pda for the first time and try to sync it would run palmos devices now it doesn't I think if memory serves it's now in media selector but greyed out12:33
seb128Hobbsee: good question and no idea12:33
seb128davmor2: pda should still be handled by gnome-volume-manager I think12:33
davmor2seb128: okay thanks for the info any idea when the camera thing will get put right?12:35
seb128davmor2: whenever somebody figure what is wrong12:36
seb128I've started looking at it this morning but my camera seems to have issues12:36
davmor2seb128: okay thanks again :)12:36
seb128you are welcome12:36
Hobbseeseb128: hmm12:40
pochuHobbsee: there's 'date -u'12:43
cearlehey all.  I'm wondering which is the best channel/forum to troubleshoot getting my ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO going properly?12:47
=== davmor2 is now known as davmor2_away
seb128cearle: what issue do you have? you can try #ubuntu+1 or #ubuntu12:55
cearleseb128, vesa drivers work fine with my ATI card, but I haven't had much success configuring the fgrlx drivers manually or via envy.  I expect the logs will show up something I can't decipher.  Thx!13:00
seb128you are welcome13:01
seb128maybe try the radeonhd or ati driver on hardy13:01
=== davmor2_away is now known as davmor2
mvoseb128: can nautilus-cd-burner work with mkisofs too (in addition to genisoimage?) - if so, we should add a or-dependency to easy dapper->hardy upgrades14:34
seb128mvo: let me check14:38
seb128mvo: those are symlinks, right?14:38
seb128mvo: no, the patch does a commands replace and not a "try one and fallback to the other one"14:40
seb128-        g_ptr_array_add (argv, "mkisofs");14:40
seb128+        g_ptr_array_add (argv, "genisoimage");14:40
mvoseb128: hm, ok14:40
mvoseb128: I noticed that a lot of tools support both, but its fine, I will debug it a bit further14:40
seb128mvo: why is that an issue? the depends should just trigger the genisoimage install no?14:40
mvoseb128: its fine, it seems to be a side effect of a dapper->hardy upgrade without multiverse, then mkisofs becomes obsolete and conflicts with genisoimage14:43
mvoseb128: but mkisofs has a lot of rdepends and the upgrader can (depending on the packages installed) decide to hold genisoimage back (not install it) and that breaks nautilus-c-b and that u-desktp14:44
seb128I see14:45
seb128upgrades are fun ;-)14:45
* mpt scowls at seb12814:48
seb128hey mpt14:51
mptThat that "Sensible Browser" comes from Debian doesn't make it right :-)14:51
mptDoes that mean it's not in upstream gnome-control-center?14:51
seb128right, but that's the sort of thing you can have never ending discussion about and where there is no right14:52
seb128no, it's not14:52
seb128it's a debian and derivative thing14:52
mptSo I'd need to talk to the Debian maintainer about fixing it14:53
mptI don't think it's a neverending discussion issue, it's pretty obviously wrong to suggest a program exists when it doesn't.14:53
seb128you need to talk to debian changing something they use in a lot of packages and that they consider useful14:53
seb128it does exist14:53
seb128the sensible browser is "pick the nicer browser installed"14:53
seb128it's a complex system where browsers have scores, etc14:54
mptThat's not a browser, it's a behavior.14:54
mptAnd it's a good behavior.14:54
seb128that's sort of the debian way to configure the default application14:54
mptIt just doesn't need to be visible.14:54
seb128it is14:54
seb128otherwise how would you say to GNOME to use this setting?14:54
mptYou just told me it wasn't!14:54
seb128wasn't what?14:55
mpta browser14:55
seb128it's the debian logic to select the default browser14:55
seb128and the item is to allow people to use this logic14:55
seb128otherwise they could not14:55
mptBut no human actually wants to use that logic, except when they've just uninstalled the browser that was previously the default.14:56
mptThen gnome-control-center should use that logic to choose a new one, great, and *show me which one it's chosen*.14:57
seb128it's not that easy14:57
seb128the debian thing is there for historical reasons14:57
seb128and was there before the current desktopish system14:57
mptbefore Gnome, you mean?14:58
seb128might be, before the current preferred application selection system rather14:59
mptI suppose it gets used by people who don't use Gnome, too15:00
seb128that's the debian way to choose a browser for the system15:00
seb128which will be respected by command line tools, etc15:00
seb128I guess it's not that used by desktop users though15:01
seb128we would remove the item and tell to those command line users to just use a custom command and type sensible-browser there15:01
seb128but we didn't really get complain about having it as a choice either15:02
mptso sensible-browser is a terminal command too?15:02
mptWhat does it do that xdg-open doesn't?15:02
seb128it's integrated to the debian system where xdg-open is not15:03
seb128xdg-open is an upstream tool15:03
seb128sensible-browser is a debian tool15:04
seb128I think nowadays it would make sense to convert the tools to xdg15:04
seb128the debian tools are often a way debian found to make things coherent and standard on the distribution when there was not upstream standard15:05
mptfair enough15:05
mptI have no problem with the terminal command still existing (though if it could be replaced by xdg-open, that would be shorter to type!)15:06
mptso, looks like I need to talk with "Marco Cabizza"15:10
seb128I don't think so15:10
seb128what do you want, getting the entry removed?15:10
seb128or having the capplet interacting with the command line debian tools in a clever way?15:10
mptthe latter15:11
mptwell, both :-)15:11
seb128you should better a bug on the bts if you want to talk to the maintainer15:12
seb128the package is maintainer by pkg-gnome and has no real active maintainer in debian15:12
seb128I'm not sure they will be wanting to spend efforts on that nor remove the entry since on debian there is likely quite some users wanting this one15:12
seb128I'm not opposed to just drop the item in ubuntu if you think that's confusing for desktop users15:13
mptWell, what happens currently if you uninstall the browser that was set as the default in Preferred Applications?15:15
* mpt tries15:16
mptThat's interesting, Konqueror is installed but it shows up in Add/Remove Applications as not being installed15:16
Amaranthmaybe it wants konq-kde4?15:17
* mpt installs galeon, awwww yeah15:17
Amaranthold school15:17
mptok, set as default...15:19
mptand Preferred Apps now says "Custom"15:20
mptstill set to galeon, though15:20
mpt15:20:45@~> xdg-open http://example.com/15:20
mptError showing url: There was an error launching the default action command associated with this location.15:20
mptWell, that's not happy.15:21
mptSo if I'd had it set to "Ubuntu Sensible Browser" all the time xdg-open wouldn't have broken, but I wouldn't have been able to tell which browser it was going to fall back on, either.15:22
* mpt will get help later from someone familiar with reporting Debian bugs15:25
mptThanks for your info, seb12815:25
seb128mpt: you are welcome15:26
* seb128 grrrr a launchpad edge15:26
seb128ah, no, just being confused by the ui again15:27
mptWhich bit?15:27
seb128somebody asked if bug #195052 is going to be fixed in hardy15:27
ubotuLaunchpad bug 195052 in inkscape "Latex formula does not work on Ubuntu Hardy" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19505215:27
seb128so I tried to look at the left pane to see if the package is in main or universe15:27
seb128but that's an upstream bug and not an ubuntu task15:28
seb128so there is no such information15:28
mptYou'll be pleased to know I designed a fix for that yesterday15:28
seb128waouh ;-)15:28
seb128what does the fix look like? ;-)15:28
mpthttps://launchpad.canonical.com/BugPageTwoZero?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=package-balloon.jpg (sorry, Canonical-only link)15:29
mptbasically you'll be able to hover over any package name in the table15:29
mptand get a tooltip with the package info15:29
mptregardless of what context you're in.15:29
seb128ah, good ;-)15:31
Hobbseempt: can you find us plebs a screenshot?15:31
mptI had just done so15:32
mptIt's now attached to bug 15287815:32
ubotuLaunchpad bug 152878 in malone "Source package details box hampers bug page context-independence" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15287815:32
seb128mpt: thinking about the preferred browser thing, what are the issues you want to forward to debian exactly?15:33
seb128mpt: I think discussing dropping the debian sensible-browser use require quite some work, a plan of action and it's not going to be easy, we probably don't want to start on that15:34
mptseb128, (1) When I uninstall the browser that was the preferred browser, xdg-open (and opening Web shortcuts in Nautilus, etc) shouldn't break, but it does.15:34
Hobbseempt: why do we usually care who it's uploaded by, and who the maintainer is, unless we're actually a part of ubuntu?15:34
Hobbseeunless we want to email them15:34
seb128mpt: right, those are GNOME bugs rather15:35
Hobbseehmm, maybe it's good enough15:35
mptseb128, (2) choosing the Sensible Browser option avoids that problem, but doing that means I don't actually get to choose which browser I use!15:35
mptSo, I should be able to choose which browser I want, and have that automatically fall back to another browser (i.e., whichever sensible-browser would choose for me) when I uninstall the default.15:35
mptIf that works, then there's no need for the Sensible Browser option to be shown in the menu at all15:36
seb128well, sensible-browser is debian specific and I think we should remove it from the equation15:36
mptwhich is good, because it's confusing for it to be there.15:36
mptwell, ok15:36
seb128I argued to keep it only to make happy the debian people use it15:36
mptbut there should be *something* that chooses a fallback when I've uninstalled the default.15:36
seb128but I guess there is no real need for that on Ubuntu15:36
seb128right, I'm thinking about what that something is15:37
seb128the issue is that the default is written in the gconf configuration15:37
seb128and the capplet is only a way to change this key15:37
mptIt might be the sensible-browser code embedded into something else, e.g. xdg-open itself.15:37
seb128but if we want to do dynamic adjustment we need something running all the time doing the work15:37
mptOr the uninstall scripts for all browsers.15:37
seb128GNOME doesn't use xdg-open15:37
mpt(There are more worms in this can?)15:38
mptHobbsee, are you suggesting it should contain *less* information?15:38
seb128we need gnome-settings-daemon or something updating the gconf key when the preferred application run away15:38
Hobbseempt: no, i looked at my original bug15:39
Hobbseei'm assumingit's small enough not to matter :)15:39
mptI was wondering if I'd left out anything important15:39
mptseb128, in other words, it's complicated enough to need a spec, but unimportant enough that any spec likely wouldn't be implemented? :-)15:40
seb128mpt: something like that15:41
seb128mpt: users don't uninstall their preferred browser every day15:41
mpttrue, true15:41
mptAnd I guess even if you ran a user test asking people to change their Web browser, they'd have terrible trouble finding Preferred Applications15:42
seb128easy would around would be to display a "there is no preferred browser configured" dialog with a button to open the capplet15:42
seb128rather than the current error15:42
mpt(which may be why Apple gave up on having an Internet control panel, and gave the job of setting default Web browser to every individual browser's Preferences window instead)15:42
mptIt's also a little lame that Firefox doesn't have an icon in that menu, but I suppose that's Firefox's fault15:44
seb128oh, it doesn't?15:46
andreasnmpt: I haven't been following the discussion at all. Is firefox missing a icon in a menu or is the firefox app icon missing in a capplet in the GNOME control center?15:48
mptandreasn, Firefox doesn't have an icon in Preferred Applications (in my installation, at least)15:48
seb128mpt: ok, it's a trivial fix15:49
seb128mpt: /usr/share/gnome-control-center/gnome-default-applions.xml uses "firefox" as icon name and they changed that to firefox-3.015:49
andreasnmpt: it does in mine it seems15:49
andreasnah, firefox315:49
seb128mpt: there is a gnome-control-center upload planned I'll get the fix in the update, thanks for pointing the issue15:49
mptseb128, ahhhh, the same thing happened in my panel -- I had a Firefox launcher, and its icon turned into a big terminal icon15:50
mptwhen I upgraded15:50
seb128mpt: should we remove the ubuntu sensible browser too?15:50
mptseb128, sure, that would be great, if it's not much trouble15:50
mptPeople who really want it can still enter it as a custom command, can't they15:50
mptThank you!15:51
seb128mpt: yes they can15:53
seb128hey walters15:53
seb128asac, walters: we got some bugs about the metacity behaviour change btw, one user asked on #nautilus why the spatial mode was making the tasklist blink when trying to open an already opened location, and one ubuntu user asked why unminimizing a taskbar item was not working correctly too15:54
seb128so the change does has annoying side effects for users15:55
waltershm, need more details on the unminimizing15:55
asacyou think its a regression from the patch?15:55
seb128walters: change the tasks list to show the dialog on all the workspaces, and select to unminize on the current one15:55
waltersthe nautilus is a known change, i should have listed it in the bug15:55
seb128walters: then minimize something, switch workspace, and click on the tasklist entry15:56
seb128it used to unminize and bring you to the corresponding workspace15:56
seb128that's what I got from the user bug, I didn't verify15:56
seb128asac: yes it's due to the change15:57
waltersok i'll follow up on the bug15:58
waltersthis whole thing is such a mess16:00
waltershere's a random bug from someone complaining that it works the other way under KDE: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52251416:00
ubotuGnome bug 522514 in gtk "gtk_window_present_with_time on KDE does not move window to current desktop" [Minor,Unconfirmed]16:00
walterspersonally I'd like to change the default workspace count to 1 by default16:00
seb128that would not make a really difference16:01
seb128people who switch workspace now would also change the setting to have their workspaces16:01
seb128but having a standard behaviour between desktops would be nice16:02
pittihi walters, nice to 'see' you again16:04
mvoseb128: do you want to take care of http://paste.ubuntu.com/7002/ or should I do? (dapper->hardy)16:04
pittiwalters: I just did a local dbus-glib rebuild and installed the binaries; the *.h did not change at all, and gnome-panel still works; do you know how this ABI breakage manifests itself?16:04
seb128mvo: if that's not too much for you feel free to do it, I'm busy on some other things right now, but I'll do it in a bit otherwise16:06
walterspitti: it actually only comes up for applications which try to test for specific errors, via dbus_g_error_has_name; and this is quite rare16:06
mptseb128, I reported bug 217296 based on our discussion16:06
mvopitti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7003/ - I have seen this in a log from a dapper upgrade, didn't we patch it to not try to reload itself? or am I misremembering something here?16:06
ubotuLaunchpad bug 217296 in gnome-control-center "Uninstalling default browser doesn't fall back to another" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/21729616:06
pittiwalters: I just wondered why I could not reproduce the .h ordering change16:07
seb128mvo: btw could you do the transmission-gtk menu item change and mail the translators, that was mentionned as something to change during the meeting and the sponsoring bug is assigned to you16:07
seb128mvo: thanks ;-)16:07
walterspitti: it varies by the version of dbus used to compile16:07
seb128mpt: thanks16:07
pittimvo: I think we did that for hal16:07
walterspitti: and the goal was actually for hardy that they should be the same16:07
pittimvo: but since our dbus never restarts itself, we didn't touch it so far16:08
pittiwalters: right, I absolutely agree on fixating the ABI16:08
pittiwalters: I'd just be more comfortable to find a situation where it breaks, so that I can be more confident at the fix (we need to be super-paranoid at this point of the release)16:08
pittiwalters: ok, thank you; I'll dig a bit deeper16:09
walterspitti: if you grep through the sources for anything calling dbus_g_error_get_name or dbus_g_error_has_name you'll find things that would have broken...my intuition (though I haven't checked) is this is includes NetworkManager, the telepathy stack, and PackageKit16:12
seb128walters: btw, do you know if the camera plugin action is working on fc9?16:16
waltersseb128: i don't...honestly I only run stable releases on my main laptop and have a sacrificial rawhide machine where i occasionally test things =)16:16
seb128I'll try pinging davidz about that ;-)16:17
mpt"Open with [ gimp.desktop     :^]"16:42
mptWhat's gimp.desktop?16:42
mptThe Launcher for Gimp, I suppose16:43
mptah, I know how this happened16:43
mptI didn't know where Gimp was in the filesystem, so I dragged Gimp from the Applications menu into the filepicker16:44
mptbut instead of selecting Gimp (which would have been useful), it selected the Gimp .desktop file (which wasn't)16:44
slomopedro_: ok, so a fix for the mono-program-segfault-on-exit is found now... how long until it's too late for hardy? ;)16:55
seb128slomo: the sooner the better, today or tomorrow would be nice16:56
pedro_slomo: great! yeah what seb128 said ;-)16:56
slomoseb128: ok, tomorrow is good :)16:57
slomoseb128: do i need some kind of freeze exception or can i just go ahead and upload?17:11
seb128slomo: upload if that's just a bug fix and not a new version17:11
slomoseb128: well, either a new version with more fixes or just this single fix ;)17:12
seb128and maybe ping pitti to get his opinion ;-)17:12
slomopedro_: which is the bugreport for this? :)17:18
pedro_slomo: the bug 19949617:18
ubotuLaunchpad bug 199496 in gtk-sharp2 "Tomboy.exe crashed with SIGSEGV in exit()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19949617:18
pedro_no problem :-)17:19
slomowtf, did you count the number of duplicates already? :)17:19
pedro_hehe there's other reports which i didn't marked as dup of it, because there's some people arguing about getting too much email :-P17:21
mptThat sounds bad17:22
mptpedro_, is there a bug reported about that?17:22
mptLaunchpad's e-mail behavior shouldn't be discouraging people from marking duplicates17:22
tedgmpt: Launchpad's e-mail behavior is a true problem.17:22
tedgmpt: Lots of people on the Inkscape list complaining about it with the switch over.17:23
tedgmpt: Launchpad needs "server-side" filtering in the form of preferences.17:23
mpttedg, are they complaining about the same problem as pedro_, or a different problem?17:23
tedgmpt: If the problem from pedro_ is too much mail, yes.17:23
mptWhich message types are they receiving that they don't want to receive?17:24
tedgmpt: Many people have made new GMail accounts, set them to get Launchpad mail, and just have them all dead end there.17:24
tedgBasically, they'd like to be in the bug control group without receiving all the mails about new bugs and bugs that they're not interested in.17:24
tedgOr be able to filter it by tag or something.17:25
tedgSo I could say "I'm interested in filters"17:25
tedgAnd then get info on all the bugs tagged with "filter"17:25
pedro_mpt: mm haven't seen one yet, but basically is about "i can't unsubscribe in a easy way"17:25
mptok, so three issues here17:25
mpt(1) can't obviously unsubscribe when your bug was marked as a duplicate17:26
mpt(bug 136570, bug 210457, bug 151101)17:27
ubotuLaunchpad bug 136570 in malone "Can't unsubscribe from duplicates if dupe is private" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/13657017:27
ubotuLaunchpad bug 210457 in malone "unsubscribing from a bug with duplicates would only unsubscribe from one duplicate?" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/21045717:27
ubotuLaunchpad bug 151101 in malone "Users not properly subscribed to bugs when their bug is marked as duplicate" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15110117:27
mpt(2) can't subscribe to a tag17:28
mpt(Bug 151129)17:28
ubotuLaunchpad bug 151129 in malone "Can't subscribe to a tag" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15112917:28
tedgI think you're looking from the positive instead of the negative.  "Ignore all tags except" would probably be more useful.17:28
mptand (3) can't be a bug supervisor without getting mailed about every damn bug report17:29
mptI don't think #3 is reported, actually.17:29
tedgIt would probably be easier to have an "expert field" where I can put "+filter -ugly +bob +alvin"17:29
tedgBut that would have to be per-project as different projects use different tags.17:29
mptWell, that's even more complex than subscribing to a tag17:29
mptThat's subscribing to a *search* :-)17:30
tedgYes, I guess if you can unsubscribe all, then subscribe back that'd work too.17:30
tedgKind of a "#3 #2 #2" type of thing.17:30
tedgIn general, I'd say subscribe to inkscape-devel and start a thread that's "What's wrong with Launchpad mail?" -- you'll get some replies :)17:31
tedgPersonally, I think the e-mails need more information in them.  I'm not sure what yet.17:32
tedgI'm thinking perhaps my last comment on the bug.17:32
tedgThe reality is that when I get the mails, they're very much out of context, so I end up having to review what is going on before I can made a decision about whether the e-mail is useful or not.17:33
mptreported bug 21733717:38
ubotuLaunchpad bug 217337 in malone "Bug supervisors shouldn't be compulsorily subscribed to all bug reports" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/21733717:38
slomoseb128: ok, uploaded it now already... does ubuntu's dak accept changes files with version 1.8? :)17:44
tedgmpt: Thanks.17:45
slomook, it does17:46
slomopitti: please accept gtk# and gnome#, thanks ;)17:46
=== crd1b is now known as crdlb
seb128slomo: no idea about the version thing ;-)17:50
cody-somervillepedro_, ping. Please don't unassign bugs that I assign to myself. :) (sorry if you're the wrong person).20:09
pedro_cody-somerville: context bug 203183 ?20:11
ubotuLaunchpad bug 203183 in nautilus "Hang on network operations" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/20318320:11
pedro_cody-somerville: ok no problem, will change it to confirmed then since you'll be working on it, i don't like to have a lot of bugs on new status20:14
cody-somervilleOkay, you could mark it in progress if you'd like20:15
pedro_sure, thanks for raising it :-)20:15
cody-somervilleThanks :)20:15
* cody-somerville hugs.20:15
Amaranthalex-weej: tempted to set https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/217404 to Won't Fix just because you should know better :P20:40
ubotuLaunchpad bug 217404 in compiz "Compiz locks up occasionally" [Undecided,New]20:40
alex-weejAmaranth: why? :(20:41
alex-weeji can't get a trace till i'm back in london!20:41
alex-weeji don't have another computer!20:41
alex-weejor is it a popular dup? LP didn't suggest one :(20:42
Amaranthalex-weej: you just said you can ssh in and kill compiz to 'fix' it20:42
Amaranthneed you to do that to the ati machine20:42
alex-weejok, will try it tomorrow20:42
alex-weeji have been getting this for weeks20:42
Amaranthneed to attach gdb and see what compiz is doing20:42
alex-weejjust never bothered to really try and do anything about it till today20:42
alex-weejso you've not seen any other reports of this?20:43
Amaranthif you try to show me using the nvidia machine it'll end up doing something i can blame the nvidia driver for :P20:43
alex-weeji thought maybe some other people may be getting it, as i was getting it on 2 different machines with 2 different drivers and 2 different archs20:43
alex-weejok, well we'll see tomorrow :>20:43
Amaranthother people get it but they can't help with it or they have an obvious nvidia bug20:43
ubotuLaunchpad bug 217404 in compiz "Compiz locks up occasionally" [Undecided,New]20:44
AmaranthI seem to get a lockup about once every other week but usually on pressing alt-sysrq-k to kill X the whole system freezes so I can easily blame nvidia20:44
alex-weejAmaranth: ever tried to fix it by killing compiz instead?20:45
alex-weejsysrq-k works for me too20:45
alex-weejbut i don't like losing data :p20:45
Amaranthyes, then X is still broken and see above20:45
alex-weejoh right sorry i misread20:45
alex-weejon ati, i can kill X and get back to work20:45
alex-weejat least i think so20:45
Amaranthhaven't had a lockup killing X could solve since gutsy was in development :)20:46
Amaranthwell, no, i've had a couple20:46
alex-weejthough now that i tink about it, i get the evil dotted lines occasionally. my memory sucks, let's try with real evidence rather than my own anecdotes tomorrow20:46
Amaranthremember, ati machine20:46
alex-weeji'll do both, they crash often enough :p20:47
* alex-weej swears at depressed Show Desktop button20:48
alex-weejdo we know what the problem with the show desktop plugin is?20:48
seb128cody-somerville: why should be keep bugs without the required informations open? they cluter the list and you can reopen when you debug the issue20:51
cody-somervilleBecause seb128 closed bugs disappear off the list.20:52
cody-somervilleAnd a bug is a bug!20:52
cody-somervilleIf you're too lazy to do the legwork yourself, don't close the bug. Just wait. It isn't a race to close as many bugs as possible.20:52
seb128cody-somerville: that's not how the bug tracker works, or we would never close bugs and let thousand of "doesn't work" bugs open just because bugs are bugs20:52
cody-somervilleSome bugs do deserve to be closed.20:53
seb128cody-somerville: I'm not lazy, you are just the only one to get the issue20:53
cody-somervilleI don't think a majority of users use the features extensively as I do20:53
seb128and I'm not sure that insulting me is going to lead you somewhere20:53
cody-somervilleseb128, I'm sorry, that wasn't a person insult.20:53
seb128that was20:53
cody-somervilleOr certainly wasn't intended.20:53
seb128calling me lazy must be a joke20:54
seb128do you really think I'm slacking the whole week?20:54
cody-somervilleI used you're in a third person20:54
cody-somervilleand I have no doubt in my mind that you're equally as busy as I am20:54
seb128do you have an idea of how many thousand bugs we have assigned to the desktop components?20:54
* marnanel does the "omg" linguist hand to forehead gesture20:54
Amaranthalex-weej: no idea what the problem is, i can't reproduce easily20:55
Amaranths/easily/at all because i don't use showdesktop/20:55
alex-weeji don't wanna lose windows now20:55
seb128cody-somerville: this bug is of no use, nobody else complained about it, there is no stacktrace, you have been asked those informations one month ago and didn't reply, I don't know why we should keep this bug on the desktop issues list if it's of no use20:56
alex-weeji think you can catalyse it by activating showdesktop, revealing the desktop (so the windows slide off the screen) then while you're in that state, disable show desktop20:56
alex-weejall hell breaks loose20:56
cody-somervilleseb128, Because the issue does occur and I will get around to addressing it. Furthermore, could you please define what the "desktop issues list" is and what puts a bug on or off of it?20:57
seb128cody-somerville: the list is all the non closed bugs on any desktop component20:57
seb128cody-somerville: I'm changing it back to incomplete because it really lacks informations20:58
cody-somervilleI don't mind if it is in progress or new or incomplete21:00
cody-somervilleHowever, what I was looking to have was the bug assigned to me so that it is on my todo list.21:00
seb128pitti: around?21:28
alex-weejseb128: pulseaudio is default on hardy now, right? well ALSA still isn't using it by default. which is bad.22:38
alex-weejbasically, if a PA-using app is using sound22:38
alex-weejall ALSA apps will fail22:38
alex-weejunless you have hw mixing22:38
alex-weejwe need to enable the alsa plugin for pulse22:38
alex-weejand then deal with all the bugs22:38
alex-weejor just throw pa out :/22:38
seb128alex-weej: I know almost nothing about sound but yes pulseaudio is used by default22:39
alex-weejand we're in freezes now daaaamn22:39
alex-weeji'm always too slow with this22:39
ajmitchsigh, bugs that show up on the first boot after upgrade, but not subsequently22:40
seb128hey ajmitch22:43
seb128ajmitch: it has been a while, how are you?22:43
ajmitchis it a nautilus bug that all the saved network locations I had from gutsy disappeared?22:43
ajmitchgood, how are you?22:43
seb128alex-weej: what applications are broken? it should not be worst than esound was22:43
seb128ajmitch: busy but good otherwise, thanks ;-)22:43
seb128ajmitch: yes, nautilus switched to gvfs which is a totally new library and so don't know about gnomevfs links and nobody wrote migration code to change to bookmarks or something22:44
alex-weejseb128: the difference was esound used ALSA dmix, PA doesn't use dmix22:44
seb128alex-weej: any reason why it doesn't?22:44
alex-weejseb128: maybe it does... but i think lennart would have a lot to say if it did.22:45
alex-weejdmix is basically doing what pa is supposed to do22:45
alex-weejbut pa does it better (apparently)22:45
alex-weejlet me test...22:45
ajmitchoh well, it's better than the first boot after upgrade which I sadly can't reproduce - gnome-settings-daemon failed to start, desktop background was black with no icons. But since I can't reproduce it, I can't really file a bug :(22:45
alex-weejseb128: ERROR: from element /pipeline0/alsasink0: Could not open audio device for playback. Device is being used by another application.22:46
alex-weejPA definitely hogs the ALSA device22:46
alex-weejwhich is fine, as the intention is that ALSA uses the "pulse" plugin to route ALSA audio via pulse instead22:46
alex-weejbut we're not doing it22:46
alex-weeji will open a report22:47
=== fta_ is now known as fta
Amaranthalex-weej: I'll mark it high and milestone it so someone who knows what is going on looks at it :)22:55
alex-weejAmaranth: it's already reported, i'm just cleaning it up now22:57
alex-weejone sec22:57
alex-weejAmaranth: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/19845323:01
ubotuLaunchpad bug 198453 in pulseaudio "Default ALSA device must use PulseAudio, otherwise ALSA applications may fail" [Undecided,Confirmed]23:01
alex-weejalso can you remove the pulseaudio bug-tracker link? that's to do with skype, which is not relevant23:01
alex-weejor can i do it?23:02
alex-weeji can't see how23:02
Amaranthi'll do it23:03
alex-weejseriously, this aint the first time i've tried to do it and gotten lost23:04
alex-weejis it actually possible for normal peons to do it?23:04
Amaranthi dunno23:04
seb128alex-weej: you can't delete tasks no, just change them to invalid23:06
AmaranthYou used to be able to change the project they apply to as well but this one won't let me23:07
AmaranthI usually moved them to the 'Obsolete Junk' project so I'd stop getting email :)23:07
seb128you can make the task track no watch23:08
seb128and then change the settings23:08
Amaranthyeah, i changed it to no track but i still can't do anything but change it to invalid23:08
Amaranthwhich is fine here as i'm not getting email for the pulseaudio project23:08
alex-weejthanks travis23:10
alex-weeji think, in general, we should be paying much attention to that PerfectSetup page23:11

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!