=== fta_ is now known as fta [06:02] hello [06:10] good morning [06:23] morning [06:30] would "it uses gio now instead of gnomevfs and includes 3 bug fixes" be a compelling reason to update an app this close to release? [06:32] twitux 0.61 was released on gnome.org 2 months ago, and it has that plus a few nice new features over 0.60 which is currently in the repos, so i was wondering if it would be updateable or not [06:32] er 1 month ago. i can do math, i swear === asac_ is now known as asac [06:48] morning all, and a question -- what does a SIGTRAP mean on __kernel_vsyscall? [06:48] im not sure that's a desktop question O_o [06:49] macogw: I know ;-) but since it happened with evolution-data-server... [06:49] oh [06:50] man 7 signal says SIGTRAP 5 Core Trace/breakpoint trap [06:50] yes [06:50] on a strace? [06:50] and causing a kill?? [06:51] this is bug 216936 [06:52] * macogw waits for ubotu [06:52] oh rihgt [06:52] bug #216936 [06:52] was just gonna /msg him [06:52] it is asleep [06:52] :) [06:53] I get timeouts on ubotu [06:53] im waiting to see if launchpad times out in ff [06:55] hm...well since it says Trace in the description in man signal, i'm guessing that your killing strace is that...but idk how e-d-s caught it too [06:56] strace had detached from it already, right? [06:57] that's my understanding, but I was not the one stracing it [06:57] oh [06:57] anyway, this is the very first I see on an unhandled SIGTRAP in the kernel [06:58] (huh, but still in user space) [07:00] asac: could you commit the icon face lift for network manager ? [07:00] ... nm-applet rather [07:01] crevette: icon face lift? [07:01] i wanna see! [07:04] the icons provided by Opensus for instance [07:04] this is tango styled icons [09:21] ho [09:22] Someone knows where the source of libclearlooks.so are ? [09:23] I can't find them in the source package (gtk2-engines) [11:56] cjwatson has just recommend I bring this to you. I'm part of the testing team and on a fresh install 20080411 I have no deskbar or tracker applet nor do any of the autostart apps work when you plug in a camera/pda etc. On checking it seems that all the options in System/Prefs/Removable Drives are empty [12:29] seb128: poke [12:29] seb128: which place do i pick, or how do i otherwise get, utc time? [12:31] Hobbsee: london and -1hr [12:31] I think [12:31] davmor2: deskbar and tracker have been removed in hardy, they were creating issues and slowing down system for no real win [12:31] davmor2: and the camera autostart is a known issue [12:31] seb128: cool np's there then [12:31] davmor2: dunno about pda [12:33] seb128: when I used to plug in a pda for the first time and try to sync it would run palmos devices now it doesn't I think if memory serves it's now in media selector but greyed out [12:33] Hobbsee: good question and no idea [12:33] davmor2: pda should still be handled by gnome-volume-manager I think [12:35] seb128: okay thanks for the info any idea when the camera thing will get put right? [12:36] davmor2: whenever somebody figure what is wrong [12:36] I've started looking at it this morning but my camera seems to have issues [12:36] seb128: okay thanks again :) [12:36] you are welcome [12:40] seb128: hmm [12:43] Hobbsee: there's 'date -u' [12:47] hey all. I'm wondering which is the best channel/forum to troubleshoot getting my ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO going properly? === davmor2 is now known as davmor2_away [12:55] cearle: what issue do you have? you can try #ubuntu+1 or #ubuntu [13:00] seb128, vesa drivers work fine with my ATI card, but I haven't had much success configuring the fgrlx drivers manually or via envy. I expect the logs will show up something I can't decipher. Thx! [13:01] you are welcome [13:01] maybe try the radeonhd or ati driver on hardy === davmor2_away is now known as davmor2 [14:34] seb128: can nautilus-cd-burner work with mkisofs too (in addition to genisoimage?) - if so, we should add a or-dependency to easy dapper->hardy upgrades [14:38] mvo: let me check [14:38] mvo: those are symlinks, right? [14:40] mvo: no, the patch does a commands replace and not a "try one and fallback to the other one" [14:40] - g_ptr_array_add (argv, "mkisofs"); [14:40] + g_ptr_array_add (argv, "genisoimage"); [14:40] etc [14:40] seb128: hm, ok [14:40] seb128: I noticed that a lot of tools support both, but its fine, I will debug it a bit further [14:40] mvo: why is that an issue? the depends should just trigger the genisoimage install no? [14:43] seb128: its fine, it seems to be a side effect of a dapper->hardy upgrade without multiverse, then mkisofs becomes obsolete and conflicts with genisoimage [14:44] ok [14:44] seb128: but mkisofs has a lot of rdepends and the upgrader can (depending on the packages installed) decide to hold genisoimage back (not install it) and that breaks nautilus-c-b and that u-desktp [14:45] I see [14:45] upgrades are fun ;-) [14:48] * mpt scowls at seb128 [14:51] hey mpt [14:51] That that "Sensible Browser" comes from Debian doesn't make it right :-) [14:51] Does that mean it's not in upstream gnome-control-center? [14:52] right, but that's the sort of thing you can have never ending discussion about and where there is no right [14:52] no, it's not [14:52] it's a debian and derivative thing [14:53] So I'd need to talk to the Debian maintainer about fixing it [14:53] I don't think it's a neverending discussion issue, it's pretty obviously wrong to suggest a program exists when it doesn't. [14:53] you need to talk to debian changing something they use in a lot of packages and that they consider useful [14:53] it does exist [14:53] the sensible browser is "pick the nicer browser installed" [14:54] it's a complex system where browsers have scores, etc [14:54] That's not a browser, it's a behavior. [14:54] And it's a good behavior. [14:54] that's sort of the debian way to configure the default application [14:54] It just doesn't need to be visible. [14:54] it is [14:54] otherwise how would you say to GNOME to use this setting? [14:54] You just told me it wasn't! [14:55] wasn't what? [14:55] a browser [14:55] it's the debian logic to select the default browser [14:55] and the item is to allow people to use this logic [14:55] otherwise they could not [14:56] But no human actually wants to use that logic, except when they've just uninstalled the browser that was previously the default. [14:57] Then gnome-control-center should use that logic to choose a new one, great, and *show me which one it's chosen*. [14:57] it's not that easy [14:57] the debian thing is there for historical reasons [14:57] and was there before the current desktopish system [14:58] before Gnome, you mean? [14:59] might be, before the current preferred application selection system rather [15:00] ok [15:00] I suppose it gets used by people who don't use Gnome, too [15:00] that's the debian way to choose a browser for the system [15:00] which will be respected by command line tools, etc [15:01] I guess it's not that used by desktop users though [15:01] we would remove the item and tell to those command line users to just use a custom command and type sensible-browser there [15:02] but we didn't really get complain about having it as a choice either [15:02] so sensible-browser is a terminal command too? [15:02] yes [15:02] kewl [15:02] What does it do that xdg-open doesn't? [15:03] it's integrated to the debian system where xdg-open is not [15:03] xdg-open is an upstream tool [15:04] sensible-browser is a debian tool [15:04] I think nowadays it would make sense to convert the tools to xdg [15:05] the debian tools are often a way debian found to make things coherent and standard on the distribution when there was not upstream standard [15:05] fair enough [15:06] I have no problem with the terminal command still existing (though if it could be replaced by xdg-open, that would be shorter to type!) [15:10] so, looks like I need to talk with "Marco Cabizza" [15:10] I don't think so [15:10] what do you want, getting the entry removed? [15:10] or having the capplet interacting with the command line debian tools in a clever way? [15:11] the latter [15:11] well, both :-) [15:12] you should better a bug on the bts if you want to talk to the maintainer [15:12] the package is maintainer by pkg-gnome and has no real active maintainer in debian [15:12] I'm not sure they will be wanting to spend efforts on that nor remove the entry since on debian there is likely quite some users wanting this one [15:13] I'm not opposed to just drop the item in ubuntu if you think that's confusing for desktop users [15:15] Well, what happens currently if you uninstall the browser that was set as the default in Preferred Applications? [15:16] * mpt tries [15:16] That's interesting, Konqueror is installed but it shows up in Add/Remove Applications as not being installed [15:17] maybe it wants konq-kde4? [15:17] * mpt installs galeon, awwww yeah [15:17] old school [15:17] represent [15:19] ok, set as default... [15:20] uninstalled... [15:20] and Preferred Apps now says "Custom" [15:20] still set to galeon, though [15:20] 15:20:45@~> xdg-open http://example.com/ [15:20] Error showing url: There was an error launching the default action command associated with this location. [15:21] Well, that's not happy. [15:22] So if I'd had it set to "Ubuntu Sensible Browser" all the time xdg-open wouldn't have broken, but I wouldn't have been able to tell which browser it was going to fall back on, either. [15:25] * mpt will get help later from someone familiar with reporting Debian bugs [15:25] Thanks for your info, seb128 [15:26] mpt: you are welcome [15:26] * seb128 grrrr a launchpad edge [15:27] ah, no, just being confused by the ui again [15:27] Which bit? [15:27] somebody asked if bug #195052 is going to be fixed in hardy [15:27] Launchpad bug 195052 in inkscape "Latex formula does not work on Ubuntu Hardy" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/195052 [15:27] so I tried to look at the left pane to see if the package is in main or universe [15:28] but that's an upstream bug and not an ubuntu task [15:28] right [15:28] so there is no such information [15:28] You'll be pleased to know I designed a fix for that yesterday [15:28] waouh ;-) [15:28] what does the fix look like? ;-) [15:29] https://launchpad.canonical.com/BugPageTwoZero?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=package-balloon.jpg (sorry, Canonical-only link) [15:29] basically you'll be able to hover over any package name in the table [15:29] and get a tooltip with the package info [15:29] regardless of what context you're in. [15:31] ah, good ;-) [15:31] mpt: can you find us plebs a screenshot? [15:32] I had just done so [15:32] It's now attached to bug 152878 [15:32] Launchpad bug 152878 in malone "Source package details box hampers bug page context-independence" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/152878 [15:33] mpt: thinking about the preferred browser thing, what are the issues you want to forward to debian exactly? [15:34] mpt: I think discussing dropping the debian sensible-browser use require quite some work, a plan of action and it's not going to be easy, we probably don't want to start on that [15:34] seb128, (1) When I uninstall the browser that was the preferred browser, xdg-open (and opening Web shortcuts in Nautilus, etc) shouldn't break, but it does. [15:34] mpt: why do we usually care who it's uploaded by, and who the maintainer is, unless we're actually a part of ubuntu? [15:34] unless we want to email them [15:35] mpt: right, those are GNOME bugs rather [15:35] hmm, maybe it's good enough [15:35] seb128, (2) choosing the Sensible Browser option avoids that problem, but doing that means I don't actually get to choose which browser I use! [15:35] So, I should be able to choose which browser I want, and have that automatically fall back to another browser (i.e., whichever sensible-browser would choose for me) when I uninstall the default. [15:36] If that works, then there's no need for the Sensible Browser option to be shown in the menu at all [15:36] well, sensible-browser is debian specific and I think we should remove it from the equation [15:36] which is good, because it's confusing for it to be there. [15:36] well, ok [15:36] I argued to keep it only to make happy the debian people use it [15:36] but there should be *something* that chooses a fallback when I've uninstalled the default. [15:36] but I guess there is no real need for that on Ubuntu [15:37] right, I'm thinking about what that something is [15:37] the issue is that the default is written in the gconf configuration [15:37] and the capplet is only a way to change this key [15:37] It might be the sensible-browser code embedded into something else, e.g. xdg-open itself. [15:37] but if we want to do dynamic adjustment we need something running all the time doing the work [15:37] Or the uninstall scripts for all browsers. [15:37] GNOME doesn't use xdg-open [15:38] heh [15:38] (There are more worms in this can?) [15:38] Hobbsee, are you suggesting it should contain *less* information? [15:38] we need gnome-settings-daemon or something updating the gconf key when the preferred application run away [15:39] mpt: no, i looked at my original bug [15:39] i'm assumingit's small enough not to matter :) [15:39] I was wondering if I'd left out anything important [15:40] seb128, in other words, it's complicated enough to need a spec, but unimportant enough that any spec likely wouldn't be implemented? :-) [15:41] mpt: something like that [15:41] mpt: users don't uninstall their preferred browser every day [15:41] true, true [15:42] And I guess even if you ran a user test asking people to change their Web browser, they'd have terrible trouble finding Preferred Applications [15:42] easy would around would be to display a "there is no preferred browser configured" dialog with a button to open the capplet [15:42] s/would/work [15:42] rather than the current error [15:42] (which may be why Apple gave up on having an Internet control panel, and gave the job of setting default Web browser to every individual browser's Preferences window instead) [15:44] It's also a little lame that Firefox doesn't have an icon in that menu, but I suppose that's Firefox's fault [15:46] oh, it doesn't? [15:46] hum [15:48] mpt: I haven't been following the discussion at all. Is firefox missing a icon in a menu or is the firefox app icon missing in a capplet in the GNOME control center? [15:48] andreasn, Firefox doesn't have an icon in Preferred Applications (in my installation, at least) [15:49] mpt: ok, it's a trivial fix [15:49] mpt: /usr/share/gnome-control-center/gnome-default-applions.xml uses "firefox" as icon name and they changed that to firefox-3.0 [15:49] mpt: it does in mine it seems [15:49] ah, firefox3 [15:49] mpt: there is a gnome-control-center upload planned I'll get the fix in the update, thanks for pointing the issue [15:50] seb128, ahhhh, the same thing happened in my panel -- I had a Firefox launcher, and its icon turned into a big terminal icon [15:50] when I upgraded [15:50] mpt: should we remove the ubuntu sensible browser too? [15:50] hum [15:50] seb128, sure, that would be great, if it's not much trouble [15:50] alright [15:50] People who really want it can still enter it as a custom command, can't they [15:51] Thank you! [15:53] mpt: yes they can [15:53] hey walters [15:54] yo [15:54] asac, walters: we got some bugs about the metacity behaviour change btw, one user asked on #nautilus why the spatial mode was making the tasklist blink when trying to open an already opened location, and one ubuntu user asked why unminimizing a taskbar item was not working correctly too [15:55] so the change does has annoying side effects for users [15:55] hm, need more details on the unminimizing [15:55] you think its a regression from the patch? [15:55] walters: change the tasks list to show the dialog on all the workspaces, and select to unminize on the current one [15:55] the nautilus is a known change, i should have listed it in the bug [15:56] walters: then minimize something, switch workspace, and click on the tasklist entry [15:56] it used to unminize and bring you to the corresponding workspace [15:56] that's what I got from the user bug, I didn't verify [15:57] asac: yes it's due to the change [15:58] ok i'll follow up on the bug [15:59] thanks [16:00] this whole thing is such a mess [16:00] here's a random bug from someone complaining that it works the other way under KDE: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=522514 [16:00] Gnome bug 522514 in gtk "gtk_window_present_with_time on KDE does not move window to current desktop" [Minor,Unconfirmed] [16:00] personally I'd like to change the default workspace count to 1 by default [16:01] that would not make a really difference [16:01] people who switch workspace now would also change the setting to have their workspaces [16:02] but having a standard behaviour between desktops would be nice [16:04] hi walters, nice to 'see' you again [16:04] seb128: do you want to take care of http://paste.ubuntu.com/7002/ or should I do? (dapper->hardy) [16:04] walters: I just did a local dbus-glib rebuild and installed the binaries; the *.h did not change at all, and gnome-panel still works; do you know how this ABI breakage manifests itself? [16:06] mvo: if that's not too much for you feel free to do it, I'm busy on some other things right now, but I'll do it in a bit otherwise [16:06] pitti: it actually only comes up for applications which try to test for specific errors, via dbus_g_error_has_name; and this is quite rare [16:06] seb128, I reported bug 217296 based on our discussion [16:06] pitti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7003/ - I have seen this in a log from a dapper upgrade, didn't we patch it to not try to reload itself? or am I misremembering something here? [16:06] Launchpad bug 217296 in gnome-control-center "Uninstalling default browser doesn't fall back to another" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/217296 [16:07] walters: I just wondered why I could not reproduce the .h ordering change [16:07] mvo: btw could you do the transmission-gtk menu item change and mail the translators, that was mentionned as something to change during the meeting and the sponsoring bug is assigned to you [16:07] mvo: thanks ;-) [16:07] pitti: it varies by the version of dbus used to compile [16:07] mpt: thanks [16:07] mvo: I think we did that for hal [16:07] pitti: and the goal was actually for hardy that they should be the same [16:08] mvo: but since our dbus never restarts itself, we didn't touch it so far [16:08] walters: right, I absolutely agree on fixating the ABI [16:08] walters: I'd just be more comfortable to find a situation where it breaks, so that I can be more confident at the fix (we need to be super-paranoid at this point of the release) [16:09] walters: ok, thank you; I'll dig a bit deeper [16:12] pitti: if you grep through the sources for anything calling dbus_g_error_get_name or dbus_g_error_has_name you'll find things that would have broken...my intuition (though I haven't checked) is this is includes NetworkManager, the telepathy stack, and PackageKit [16:16] walters: btw, do you know if the camera plugin action is working on fc9? [16:16] seb128: i don't...honestly I only run stable releases on my main laptop and have a sacrificial rawhide machine where i occasionally test things =) [16:17] ok [16:17] I'll try pinging davidz about that ;-) [16:42] "Open with [ gimp.desktop :^]" [16:42] What's gimp.desktop? [16:43] The Launcher for Gimp, I suppose [16:43] ah, I know how this happened [16:44] I didn't know where Gimp was in the filesystem, so I dragged Gimp from the Applications menu into the filepicker [16:44] but instead of selecting Gimp (which would have been useful), it selected the Gimp .desktop file (which wasn't) [16:55] pedro_: ok, so a fix for the mono-program-segfault-on-exit is found now... how long until it's too late for hardy? ;) [16:56] slomo: the sooner the better, today or tomorrow would be nice [16:56] slomo: great! yeah what seb128 said ;-) [16:57] seb128: ok, tomorrow is good :) [16:58] cool [17:11] seb128: do i need some kind of freeze exception or can i just go ahead and upload? [17:11] slomo: upload if that's just a bug fix and not a new version [17:12] seb128: well, either a new version with more fixes or just this single fix ;) [17:12] and maybe ping pitti to get his opinion ;-) [17:14] ok [17:18] pedro_: which is the bugreport for this? :) [17:18] slomo: the bug 199496 [17:18] Launchpad bug 199496 in gtk-sharp2 "Tomboy.exe crashed with SIGSEGV in exit()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199496 [17:19] thanks# [17:19] no problem :-) [17:19] wtf, did you count the number of duplicates already? :) [17:21] hehe there's other reports which i didn't marked as dup of it, because there's some people arguing about getting too much email :-P [17:22] That sounds bad [17:22] pedro_, is there a bug reported about that? [17:22] Launchpad's e-mail behavior shouldn't be discouraging people from marking duplicates [17:22] mpt: Launchpad's e-mail behavior is a true problem. [17:23] mpt: Lots of people on the Inkscape list complaining about it with the switch over. [17:23] mpt: Launchpad needs "server-side" filtering in the form of preferences. [17:23] tedg, are they complaining about the same problem as pedro_, or a different problem? [17:23] mpt: If the problem from pedro_ is too much mail, yes. [17:24] Which message types are they receiving that they don't want to receive? [17:24] mpt: Many people have made new GMail accounts, set them to get Launchpad mail, and just have them all dead end there. [17:24] Basically, they'd like to be in the bug control group without receiving all the mails about new bugs and bugs that they're not interested in. [17:25] aha [17:25] Or be able to filter it by tag or something. [17:25] So I could say "I'm interested in filters" [17:25] And then get info on all the bugs tagged with "filter" [17:25] mpt: mm haven't seen one yet, but basically is about "i can't unsubscribe in a easy way" [17:25] ok, so three issues here [17:26] (1) can't obviously unsubscribe when your bug was marked as a duplicate [17:27] (bug 136570, bug 210457, bug 151101) [17:27] Launchpad bug 136570 in malone "Can't unsubscribe from duplicates if dupe is private" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/136570 [17:27] Launchpad bug 210457 in malone "unsubscribing from a bug with duplicates would only unsubscribe from one duplicate?" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210457 [17:27] Launchpad bug 151101 in malone "Users not properly subscribed to bugs when their bug is marked as duplicate" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/151101 [17:28] (2) can't subscribe to a tag [17:28] (Bug 151129) [17:28] Launchpad bug 151129 in malone "Can't subscribe to a tag" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/151129 [17:28] I think you're looking from the positive instead of the negative. "Ignore all tags except" would probably be more useful. [17:29] and (3) can't be a bug supervisor without getting mailed about every damn bug report [17:29] I don't think #3 is reported, actually. [17:29] It would probably be easier to have an "expert field" where I can put "+filter -ugly +bob +alvin" [17:29] But that would have to be per-project as different projects use different tags. [17:29] Well, that's even more complex than subscribing to a tag [17:30] That's subscribing to a *search* :-) [17:30] Yes, I guess if you can unsubscribe all, then subscribe back that'd work too. [17:30] Kind of a "#3 #2 #2" type of thing. [17:31] In general, I'd say subscribe to inkscape-devel and start a thread that's "What's wrong with Launchpad mail?" -- you'll get some replies :) [17:32] Personally, I think the e-mails need more information in them. I'm not sure what yet. [17:32] I'm thinking perhaps my last comment on the bug. [17:33] The reality is that when I get the mails, they're very much out of context, so I end up having to review what is going on before I can made a decision about whether the e-mail is useful or not. [17:38] reported bug 217337 [17:38] Launchpad bug 217337 in malone "Bug supervisors shouldn't be compulsorily subscribed to all bug reports" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/217337 [17:44] seb128: ok, uploaded it now already... does ubuntu's dak accept changes files with version 1.8? :) [17:45] mpt: Thanks. [17:46] ok, it does [17:46] pitti: please accept gtk# and gnome#, thanks ;) === crd1b is now known as crdlb [17:50] slomo: no idea about the version thing ;-) [20:09] pedro_, ping. Please don't unassign bugs that I assign to myself. :) (sorry if you're the wrong person). [20:11] cody-somerville: context bug 203183 ? [20:11] Launchpad bug 203183 in nautilus "Hang on network operations" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/203183 [20:11] Yes. [20:14] cody-somerville: ok no problem, will change it to confirmed then since you'll be working on it, i don't like to have a lot of bugs on new status [20:15] Okay, you could mark it in progress if you'd like [20:15] sure, thanks for raising it :-) [20:15] Thanks :) [20:15] * cody-somerville hugs. [20:40] alex-weej: tempted to set https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/217404 to Won't Fix just because you should know better :P [20:40] Launchpad bug 217404 in compiz "Compiz locks up occasionally" [Undecided,New] [20:41] Amaranth: why? :( [20:41] i can't get a trace till i'm back in london! [20:41] i don't have another computer! [20:42] or is it a popular dup? LP didn't suggest one :( [20:42] alex-weej: you just said you can ssh in and kill compiz to 'fix' it [20:42] need you to do that to the ati machine [20:42] ok, will try it tomorrow [20:42] i have been getting this for weeks [20:42] need to attach gdb and see what compiz is doing [20:42] just never bothered to really try and do anything about it till today [20:43] so you've not seen any other reports of this? [20:43] if you try to show me using the nvidia machine it'll end up doing something i can blame the nvidia driver for :P [20:43] i thought maybe some other people may be getting it, as i was getting it on 2 different machines with 2 different drivers and 2 different archs [20:43] ok, well we'll see tomorrow :> [20:43] other people get it but they can't help with it or they have an obvious nvidia bug [20:43] re [20:44] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/217404 [20:44] Launchpad bug 217404 in compiz "Compiz locks up occasionally" [Undecided,New] [20:44] I seem to get a lockup about once every other week but usually on pressing alt-sysrq-k to kill X the whole system freezes so I can easily blame nvidia [20:45] Amaranth: ever tried to fix it by killing compiz instead? [20:45] sysrq-k works for me too [20:45] but i don't like losing data :p [20:45] yes, then X is still broken and see above [20:45] oh right sorry i misread [20:45] on ati, i can kill X and get back to work [20:45] at least i think so [20:46] haven't had a lockup killing X could solve since gutsy was in development :) [20:46] well, no, i've had a couple [20:46] though now that i tink about it, i get the evil dotted lines occasionally. my memory sucks, let's try with real evidence rather than my own anecdotes tomorrow [20:46] remember, ati machine [20:47] i'll do both, they crash often enough :p [20:48] * alex-weej swears at depressed Show Desktop button [20:48] do we know what the problem with the show desktop plugin is? [20:51] cody-somerville: why should be keep bugs without the required informations open? they cluter the list and you can reopen when you debug the issue [20:52] Because seb128 closed bugs disappear off the list. [20:52] And a bug is a bug! [20:52] If you're too lazy to do the legwork yourself, don't close the bug. Just wait. It isn't a race to close as many bugs as possible. [20:52] cody-somerville: that's not how the bug tracker works, or we would never close bugs and let thousand of "doesn't work" bugs open just because bugs are bugs [20:53] Some bugs do deserve to be closed. [20:53] cody-somerville: I'm not lazy, you are just the only one to get the issue [20:53] I don't think a majority of users use the features extensively as I do [20:53] and I'm not sure that insulting me is going to lead you somewhere [20:53] seb128, I'm sorry, that wasn't a person insult. [20:53] that was [20:53] *personal [20:53] Or certainly wasn't intended. [20:54] calling me lazy must be a joke [20:54] do you really think I'm slacking the whole week? [20:54] I used you're in a third person [20:54] and I have no doubt in my mind that you're equally as busy as I am [20:54] do you have an idea of how many thousand bugs we have assigned to the desktop components? [20:54] * marnanel does the "omg" linguist hand to forehead gesture [20:55] alex-weej: no idea what the problem is, i can't reproduce easily [20:55] s/easily/at all because i don't use showdesktop/ [20:55] i don't wanna lose windows now [20:55] but [20:56] cody-somerville: this bug is of no use, nobody else complained about it, there is no stacktrace, you have been asked those informations one month ago and didn't reply, I don't know why we should keep this bug on the desktop issues list if it's of no use [20:56] i think you can catalyse it by activating showdesktop, revealing the desktop (so the windows slide off the screen) then while you're in that state, disable show desktop [20:56] all hell breaks loose [20:57] seb128, Because the issue does occur and I will get around to addressing it. Furthermore, could you please define what the "desktop issues list" is and what puts a bug on or off of it? [20:57] cody-somerville: the list is all the non closed bugs on any desktop component [20:58] cody-somerville: I'm changing it back to incomplete because it really lacks informations [21:00] I don't mind if it is in progress or new or incomplete [21:00] However, what I was looking to have was the bug assigned to me so that it is on my todo list. [21:00] alright [21:28] pitti: around? [22:38] seb128: pulseaudio is default on hardy now, right? well ALSA still isn't using it by default. which is bad. [22:38] basically, if a PA-using app is using sound [22:38] all ALSA apps will fail [22:38] unless you have hw mixing [22:38] we need to enable the alsa plugin for pulse [22:38] and then deal with all the bugs [22:38] or just throw pa out :/ [22:39] alex-weej: I know almost nothing about sound but yes pulseaudio is used by default [22:39] and we're in freezes now daaaamn [22:39] i'm always too slow with this [22:40] sigh, bugs that show up on the first boot after upgrade, but not subsequently [22:43] hey ajmitch [22:43] ajmitch: it has been a while, how are you? [22:43] is it a nautilus bug that all the saved network locations I had from gutsy disappeared? [22:43] good, how are you? [22:43] alex-weej: what applications are broken? it should not be worst than esound was [22:43] ajmitch: busy but good otherwise, thanks ;-) [22:44] ajmitch: yes, nautilus switched to gvfs which is a totally new library and so don't know about gnomevfs links and nobody wrote migration code to change to bookmarks or something [22:44] seb128: the difference was esound used ALSA dmix, PA doesn't use dmix [22:44] ugh [22:44] alex-weej: any reason why it doesn't? [22:45] seb128: maybe it does... but i think lennart would have a lot to say if it did. [22:45] dmix is basically doing what pa is supposed to do [22:45] but pa does it better (apparently) [22:45] let me test... [22:45] oh well, it's better than the first boot after upgrade which I sadly can't reproduce - gnome-settings-daemon failed to start, desktop background was black with no icons. But since I can't reproduce it, I can't really file a bug :( [22:46] seb128: ERROR: from element /pipeline0/alsasink0: Could not open audio device for playback. Device is being used by another application. [22:46] PA definitely hogs the ALSA device [22:46] which is fine, as the intention is that ALSA uses the "pulse" plugin to route ALSA audio via pulse instead [22:46] but we're not doing it [22:47] i will open a report [22:47] ok === fta_ is now known as fta [22:55] alex-weej: I'll mark it high and milestone it so someone who knows what is going on looks at it :) [22:57] Amaranth: it's already reported, i'm just cleaning it up now [22:57] one sec [23:01] Amaranth: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/198453 [23:01] Launchpad bug 198453 in pulseaudio "Default ALSA device must use PulseAudio, otherwise ALSA applications may fail" [Undecided,Confirmed] [23:01] also can you remove the pulseaudio bug-tracker link? that's to do with skype, which is not relevant [23:02] or can i do it? [23:02] i can't see how [23:03] i'll do it [23:04] seriously, this aint the first time i've tried to do it and gotten lost [23:04] is it actually possible for normal peons to do it? [23:04] i dunno [23:06] alex-weej: you can't delete tasks no, just change them to invalid [23:07] You used to be able to change the project they apply to as well but this one won't let me [23:07] I usually moved them to the 'Obsolete Junk' project so I'd stop getting email :) [23:08] you can make the task track no watch [23:08] and then change the settings [23:08] yeah, i changed it to no track but i still can't do anything but change it to invalid [23:08] which is fine here as i'm not getting email for the pulseaudio project [23:10] thanks travis [23:11] i think, in general, we should be paying much attention to that PerfectSetup page