[06:02] <crevette> hello
[06:10] <dholbach> good morning
[06:23] <metalgod> morning
[06:30] <macogw> would "it uses gio now instead of gnomevfs and includes 3 bug fixes" be a compelling reason to update an app this close to release?
[06:32] <macogw> twitux 0.61 was released on gnome.org 2 months ago, and it has that plus a few nice new features over 0.60 which is currently in the repos, so i was wondering if it would be updateable or not
[06:32] <macogw> er 1 month ago. i can do math, i swear
[06:48] <hggdh> morning all, and a question -- what does a SIGTRAP mean on __kernel_vsyscall?
[06:48] <macogw> im not sure that's a desktop question O_o
[06:49] <hggdh> macogw: I know ;-) but since it happened with evolution-data-server...
[06:49] <macogw> oh
[06:50] <macogw> man 7 signal says SIGTRAP        5        Core    Trace/breakpoint trap
[06:50] <hggdh> yes
[06:50] <hggdh> on a strace?
[06:50] <hggdh> and causing a kill??
[06:51] <hggdh> this is bug 216936
[06:52]  * macogw waits for ubotu
[06:52] <macogw> oh rihgt
[06:52] <crevette> bug #216936
[06:52] <macogw> was just gonna /msg him
[06:52] <crevette> it is asleep
[06:52] <crevette> :)
[06:53] <hggdh> I get timeouts on ubotu
[06:53] <macogw> im waiting to see if launchpad times out in ff
[06:55] <macogw> hm...well since it says Trace in the description in man signal, i'm guessing that your killing strace is that...but idk how e-d-s caught it too
[06:56] <macogw> strace had detached from it already, right?
[06:57] <hggdh> that's my understanding, but I was not the one stracing it
[06:57] <macogw> oh
[06:57] <hggdh> anyway, this is the very first I see on an unhandled SIGTRAP in the kernel
[06:58] <hggdh> (huh, but still in user space)
[07:00] <crevette> asac: could you commit the icon face lift for network manager ?
[07:00] <crevette> ... nm-applet rather
[07:01] <macogw> crevette: icon face lift?
[07:01] <macogw> i wanna see!
[07:04] <crevette> the icons provided by Opensus for instance
[07:04] <crevette> this is tango styled icons
[09:21] <proppy> ho
[09:22] <proppy> Someone knows where the source of libclearlooks.so are ?
[09:23] <proppy> I can't find them in the source package (gtk2-engines)
[11:56] <davmor2> cjwatson has just recommend I bring this to you.  I'm part of the testing team and on a fresh install 20080411 I have no deskbar or tracker applet nor do any of the autostart apps work when you plug in a camera/pda etc.  On checking it seems that all the options in System/Prefs/Removable Drives are empty
[12:29] <Hobbsee> seb128: poke
[12:29] <Hobbsee> seb128: which place do i pick, or how do i otherwise get, utc time?
[12:31] <davmor2> Hobbsee: london and -1hr
[12:31] <davmor2> I think
[12:31] <seb128> davmor2: deskbar and tracker have been removed in hardy, they were creating issues and slowing down system for no real win
[12:31] <seb128> davmor2: and the camera autostart is a known issue
[12:31] <davmor2> seb128: cool np's there then
[12:31] <seb128> davmor2: dunno about pda
[12:33] <davmor2> seb128: when I used to plug in a pda for the first time and try to sync it would run palmos devices now it doesn't I think if memory serves it's now in media selector but greyed out
[12:33] <seb128> Hobbsee: good question and no idea
[12:33] <seb128> davmor2: pda should still be handled by gnome-volume-manager I think
[12:35] <davmor2> seb128: okay thanks for the info any idea when the camera thing will get put right?
[12:36] <seb128> davmor2: whenever somebody figure what is wrong
[12:36] <seb128> I've started looking at it this morning but my camera seems to have issues
[12:36] <davmor2> seb128: okay thanks again :)
[12:36] <seb128> you are welcome
[12:40] <Hobbsee> seb128: hmm
[12:43] <pochu> Hobbsee: there's 'date -u'
[12:47] <cearle> hey all.  I'm wondering which is the best channel/forum to troubleshoot getting my ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO going properly?
[12:55] <seb128> cearle: what issue do you have? you can try #ubuntu+1 or #ubuntu
[13:00] <cearle> seb128, vesa drivers work fine with my ATI card, but I haven't had much success configuring the fgrlx drivers manually or via envy.  I expect the logs will show up something I can't decipher.  Thx!
[13:01] <seb128> you are welcome
[13:01] <seb128> maybe try the radeonhd or ati driver on hardy
[14:34] <mvo> seb128: can nautilus-cd-burner work with mkisofs too (in addition to genisoimage?) - if so, we should add a or-dependency to easy dapper->hardy upgrades
[14:38] <seb128> mvo: let me check
[14:38] <seb128> mvo: those are symlinks, right?
[14:40] <seb128> mvo: no, the patch does a commands replace and not a "try one and fallback to the other one"
[14:40] <seb128> -        g_ptr_array_add (argv, "mkisofs");
[14:40] <seb128> +        g_ptr_array_add (argv, "genisoimage");
[14:40] <seb128> etc
[14:40] <mvo> seb128: hm, ok
[14:40] <mvo> seb128: I noticed that a lot of tools support both, but its fine, I will debug it a bit further
[14:40] <seb128> mvo: why is that an issue? the depends should just trigger the genisoimage install no?
[14:43] <mvo> seb128: its fine, it seems to be a side effect of a dapper->hardy upgrade without multiverse, then mkisofs becomes obsolete and conflicts with genisoimage
[14:44] <seb128> ok
[14:44] <mvo> seb128: but mkisofs has a lot of rdepends and the upgrader can (depending on the packages installed) decide to hold genisoimage back (not install it) and that breaks nautilus-c-b and that u-desktp
[14:45] <seb128> I see
[14:45] <seb128> upgrades are fun ;-)
[14:48]  * mpt scowls at seb128
[14:51] <seb128> hey mpt
[14:51] <mpt> That that "Sensible Browser" comes from Debian doesn't make it right :-)
[14:51] <mpt> Does that mean it's not in upstream gnome-control-center?
[14:52] <seb128> right, but that's the sort of thing you can have never ending discussion about and where there is no right
[14:52] <seb128> no, it's not
[14:52] <seb128> it's a debian and derivative thing
[14:53] <mpt> So I'd need to talk to the Debian maintainer about fixing it
[14:53] <mpt> I don't think it's a neverending discussion issue, it's pretty obviously wrong to suggest a program exists when it doesn't.
[14:53] <seb128> you need to talk to debian changing something they use in a lot of packages and that they consider useful
[14:53] <seb128> it does exist
[14:53] <seb128> the sensible browser is "pick the nicer browser installed"
[14:54] <seb128> it's a complex system where browsers have scores, etc
[14:54] <mpt> That's not a browser, it's a behavior.
[14:54] <mpt> And it's a good behavior.
[14:54] <seb128> that's sort of the debian way to configure the default application
[14:54] <mpt> It just doesn't need to be visible.
[14:54] <seb128> it is
[14:54] <seb128> otherwise how would you say to GNOME to use this setting?
[14:54] <mpt> You just told me it wasn't!
[14:55] <seb128> wasn't what?
[14:55] <mpt> a browser
[14:55] <seb128> it's the debian logic to select the default browser
[14:55] <seb128> and the item is to allow people to use this logic
[14:55] <seb128> otherwise they could not
[14:56] <mpt> But no human actually wants to use that logic, except when they've just uninstalled the browser that was previously the default.
[14:57] <mpt> Then gnome-control-center should use that logic to choose a new one, great, and *show me which one it's chosen*.
[14:57] <seb128> it's not that easy
[14:57] <seb128> the debian thing is there for historical reasons
[14:57] <seb128> and was there before the current desktopish system
[14:58] <mpt> before Gnome, you mean?
[14:59] <seb128> might be, before the current preferred application selection system rather
[15:00] <mpt> ok
[15:00] <mpt> I suppose it gets used by people who don't use Gnome, too
[15:00] <seb128> that's the debian way to choose a browser for the system
[15:00] <seb128> which will be respected by command line tools, etc
[15:01] <seb128> I guess it's not that used by desktop users though
[15:01] <seb128> we would remove the item and tell to those command line users to just use a custom command and type sensible-browser there
[15:02] <seb128> but we didn't really get complain about having it as a choice either
[15:02] <mpt> so sensible-browser is a terminal command too?
[15:02] <seb128> yes
[15:02] <mpt> kewl
[15:02] <mpt> What does it do that xdg-open doesn't?
[15:03] <seb128> it's integrated to the debian system where xdg-open is not
[15:03] <seb128> xdg-open is an upstream tool
[15:04] <seb128> sensible-browser is a debian tool
[15:04] <seb128> I think nowadays it would make sense to convert the tools to xdg
[15:05] <seb128> the debian tools are often a way debian found to make things coherent and standard on the distribution when there was not upstream standard
[15:05] <mpt> fair enough
[15:06] <mpt> I have no problem with the terminal command still existing (though if it could be replaced by xdg-open, that would be shorter to type!)
[15:10] <mpt> so, looks like I need to talk with "Marco Cabizza"
[15:10] <seb128> I don't think so
[15:10] <seb128> what do you want, getting the entry removed?
[15:10] <seb128> or having the capplet interacting with the command line debian tools in a clever way?
[15:11] <mpt> the latter
[15:11] <mpt> well, both :-)
[15:12] <seb128> you should better a bug on the bts if you want to talk to the maintainer
[15:12] <seb128> the package is maintainer by pkg-gnome and has no real active maintainer in debian
[15:12] <seb128> I'm not sure they will be wanting to spend efforts on that nor remove the entry since on debian there is likely quite some users wanting this one
[15:13] <seb128> I'm not opposed to just drop the item in ubuntu if you think that's confusing for desktop users
[15:15] <mpt> Well, what happens currently if you uninstall the browser that was set as the default in Preferred Applications?
[15:16]  * mpt tries
[15:16] <mpt> That's interesting, Konqueror is installed but it shows up in Add/Remove Applications as not being installed
[15:17] <Amaranth> maybe it wants konq-kde4?
[15:17]  * mpt installs galeon, awwww yeah
[15:17] <Amaranth> old school
[15:17] <mpt> represent
[15:19] <mpt> ok, set as default...
[15:20] <mpt> uninstalled...
[15:20] <mpt> and Preferred Apps now says "Custom"
[15:20] <mpt> still set to galeon, though
[15:20] <mpt> 15:20:45@~> xdg-open http://example.com/
[15:20] <mpt> Error showing url: There was an error launching the default action command associated with this location.
[15:21] <mpt> Well, that's not happy.
[15:22] <mpt> So if I'd had it set to "Ubuntu Sensible Browser" all the time xdg-open wouldn't have broken, but I wouldn't have been able to tell which browser it was going to fall back on, either.
[15:25]  * mpt will get help later from someone familiar with reporting Debian bugs
[15:25] <mpt> Thanks for your info, seb128
[15:26] <seb128> mpt: you are welcome
[15:26]  * seb128 grrrr a launchpad edge
[15:27] <seb128> ah, no, just being confused by the ui again
[15:27] <mpt> Which bit?
[15:27] <seb128> somebody asked if bug #195052 is going to be fixed in hardy
[15:27] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 195052 in inkscape "Latex formula does not work on Ubuntu Hardy" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/195052
[15:27] <seb128> so I tried to look at the left pane to see if the package is in main or universe
[15:28] <seb128> but that's an upstream bug and not an ubuntu task
[15:28] <mpt> right
[15:28] <seb128> so there is no such information
[15:28] <mpt> You'll be pleased to know I designed a fix for that yesterday
[15:28] <seb128> waouh ;-)
[15:28] <seb128> what does the fix look like? ;-)
[15:29] <mpt> https://launchpad.canonical.com/BugPageTwoZero?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=package-balloon.jpg (sorry, Canonical-only link)
[15:29] <mpt> basically you'll be able to hover over any package name in the table
[15:29] <mpt> and get a tooltip with the package info
[15:29] <mpt> regardless of what context you're in.
[15:31] <seb128> ah, good ;-)
[15:31] <Hobbsee> mpt: can you find us plebs a screenshot?
[15:32] <mpt> I had just done so
[15:32] <mpt> It's now attached to bug 152878
[15:32] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 152878 in malone "Source package details box hampers bug page context-independence" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/152878
[15:33] <seb128> mpt: thinking about the preferred browser thing, what are the issues you want to forward to debian exactly?
[15:34] <seb128> mpt: I think discussing dropping the debian sensible-browser use require quite some work, a plan of action and it's not going to be easy, we probably don't want to start on that
[15:34] <mpt> seb128, (1) When I uninstall the browser that was the preferred browser, xdg-open (and opening Web shortcuts in Nautilus, etc) shouldn't break, but it does.
[15:34] <Hobbsee> mpt: why do we usually care who it's uploaded by, and who the maintainer is, unless we're actually a part of ubuntu?
[15:34] <Hobbsee> unless we want to email them
[15:35] <seb128> mpt: right, those are GNOME bugs rather
[15:35] <Hobbsee> hmm, maybe it's good enough
[15:35] <mpt> seb128, (2) choosing the Sensible Browser option avoids that problem, but doing that means I don't actually get to choose which browser I use!
[15:35] <mpt> So, I should be able to choose which browser I want, and have that automatically fall back to another browser (i.e., whichever sensible-browser would choose for me) when I uninstall the default.
[15:36] <mpt> If that works, then there's no need for the Sensible Browser option to be shown in the menu at all
[15:36] <seb128> well, sensible-browser is debian specific and I think we should remove it from the equation
[15:36] <mpt> which is good, because it's confusing for it to be there.
[15:36] <mpt> well, ok
[15:36] <seb128> I argued to keep it only to make happy the debian people use it
[15:36] <mpt> but there should be *something* that chooses a fallback when I've uninstalled the default.
[15:36] <seb128> but I guess there is no real need for that on Ubuntu
[15:37] <seb128> right, I'm thinking about what that something is
[15:37] <seb128> the issue is that the default is written in the gconf configuration
[15:37] <seb128> and the capplet is only a way to change this key
[15:37] <mpt> It might be the sensible-browser code embedded into something else, e.g. xdg-open itself.
[15:37] <seb128> but if we want to do dynamic adjustment we need something running all the time doing the work
[15:37] <mpt> Or the uninstall scripts for all browsers.
[15:37] <seb128> GNOME doesn't use xdg-open
[15:38] <mpt> heh
[15:38] <mpt> (There are more worms in this can?)
[15:38] <mpt> Hobbsee, are you suggesting it should contain *less* information?
[15:38] <seb128> we need gnome-settings-daemon or something updating the gconf key when the preferred application run away
[15:39] <Hobbsee> mpt: no, i looked at my original bug
[15:39] <Hobbsee> i'm assumingit's small enough not to matter :)
[15:39] <mpt> I was wondering if I'd left out anything important
[15:40] <mpt> seb128, in other words, it's complicated enough to need a spec, but unimportant enough that any spec likely wouldn't be implemented? :-)
[15:41] <seb128> mpt: something like that
[15:41] <seb128> mpt: users don't uninstall their preferred browser every day
[15:41] <mpt> true, true
[15:42] <mpt> And I guess even if you ran a user test asking people to change their Web browser, they'd have terrible trouble finding Preferred Applications
[15:42] <seb128> easy would around would be to display a "there is no preferred browser configured" dialog with a button to open the capplet
[15:42] <seb128> s/would/work
[15:42] <seb128> rather than the current error
[15:42] <mpt> (which may be why Apple gave up on having an Internet control panel, and gave the job of setting default Web browser to every individual browser's Preferences window instead)
[15:44] <mpt> It's also a little lame that Firefox doesn't have an icon in that menu, but I suppose that's Firefox's fault
[15:46] <seb128> oh, it doesn't?
[15:46] <seb128> hum
[15:48] <andreasn> mpt: I haven't been following the discussion at all. Is firefox missing a icon in a menu or is the firefox app icon missing in a capplet in the GNOME control center?
[15:48] <mpt> andreasn, Firefox doesn't have an icon in Preferred Applications (in my installation, at least)
[15:49] <seb128> mpt: ok, it's a trivial fix
[15:49] <seb128> mpt: /usr/share/gnome-control-center/gnome-default-applions.xml uses "firefox" as icon name and they changed that to firefox-3.0
[15:49] <andreasn> mpt: it does in mine it seems
[15:49] <andreasn> ah, firefox3
[15:49] <seb128> mpt: there is a gnome-control-center upload planned I'll get the fix in the update, thanks for pointing the issue
[15:50] <mpt> seb128, ahhhh, the same thing happened in my panel -- I had a Firefox launcher, and its icon turned into a big terminal icon
[15:50] <mpt> when I upgraded
[15:50] <seb128> mpt: should we remove the ubuntu sensible browser too?
[15:50] <seb128> hum
[15:50] <mpt> seb128, sure, that would be great, if it's not much trouble
[15:50] <seb128> alright
[15:50] <mpt> People who really want it can still enter it as a custom command, can't they
[15:51] <mpt> Thank you!
[15:53] <seb128> mpt: yes they can
[15:53] <seb128> hey walters
[15:54] <walters> yo
[15:54] <seb128> asac, walters: we got some bugs about the metacity behaviour change btw, one user asked on #nautilus why the spatial mode was making the tasklist blink when trying to open an already opened location, and one ubuntu user asked why unminimizing a taskbar item was not working correctly too
[15:55] <seb128> so the change does has annoying side effects for users
[15:55] <walters> hm, need more details on the unminimizing
[15:55] <asac> you think its a regression from the patch?
[15:55] <seb128> walters: change the tasks list to show the dialog on all the workspaces, and select to unminize on the current one
[15:55] <walters> the nautilus is a known change, i should have listed it in the bug
[15:56] <seb128> walters: then minimize something, switch workspace, and click on the tasklist entry
[15:56] <seb128> it used to unminize and bring you to the corresponding workspace
[15:56] <seb128> that's what I got from the user bug, I didn't verify
[15:57] <seb128> asac: yes it's due to the change
[15:58] <walters> ok i'll follow up on the bug
[15:59] <seb128> thanks
[16:00] <walters> this whole thing is such a mess
[16:00] <walters> here's a random bug from someone complaining that it works the other way under KDE: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=522514
[16:00] <ubotu> Gnome bug 522514 in gtk "gtk_window_present_with_time on KDE does not move window to current desktop" [Minor,Unconfirmed]
[16:00] <walters> personally I'd like to change the default workspace count to 1 by default
[16:01] <seb128> that would not make a really difference
[16:01] <seb128> people who switch workspace now would also change the setting to have their workspaces
[16:02] <seb128> but having a standard behaviour between desktops would be nice
[16:04] <pitti> hi walters, nice to 'see' you again
[16:04] <mvo> seb128: do you want to take care of http://paste.ubuntu.com/7002/ or should I do? (dapper->hardy)
[16:04] <pitti> walters: I just did a local dbus-glib rebuild and installed the binaries; the *.h did not change at all, and gnome-panel still works; do you know how this ABI breakage manifests itself?
[16:06] <seb128> mvo: if that's not too much for you feel free to do it, I'm busy on some other things right now, but I'll do it in a bit otherwise
[16:06] <walters> pitti: it actually only comes up for applications which try to test for specific errors, via dbus_g_error_has_name; and this is quite rare
[16:06] <mpt> seb128, I reported bug 217296 based on our discussion
[16:06] <mvo> pitti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7003/ - I have seen this in a log from a dapper upgrade, didn't we patch it to not try to reload itself? or am I misremembering something here?
[16:06] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 217296 in gnome-control-center "Uninstalling default browser doesn't fall back to another" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/217296
[16:07] <pitti> walters: I just wondered why I could not reproduce the .h ordering change
[16:07] <seb128> mvo: btw could you do the transmission-gtk menu item change and mail the translators, that was mentionned as something to change during the meeting and the sponsoring bug is assigned to you
[16:07] <seb128> mvo: thanks ;-)
[16:07] <walters> pitti: it varies by the version of dbus used to compile
[16:07] <seb128> mpt: thanks
[16:07] <pitti> mvo: I think we did that for hal
[16:07] <walters> pitti: and the goal was actually for hardy that they should be the same
[16:08] <pitti> mvo: but since our dbus never restarts itself, we didn't touch it so far
[16:08] <pitti> walters: right, I absolutely agree on fixating the ABI
[16:08] <pitti> walters: I'd just be more comfortable to find a situation where it breaks, so that I can be more confident at the fix (we need to be super-paranoid at this point of the release)
[16:09] <pitti> walters: ok, thank you; I'll dig a bit deeper
[16:12] <walters> pitti: if you grep through the sources for anything calling dbus_g_error_get_name or dbus_g_error_has_name you'll find things that would have broken...my intuition (though I haven't checked) is this is includes NetworkManager, the telepathy stack, and PackageKit
[16:16] <seb128> walters: btw, do you know if the camera plugin action is working on fc9?
[16:16] <walters> seb128: i don't...honestly I only run stable releases on my main laptop and have a sacrificial rawhide machine where i occasionally test things =)
[16:17] <seb128> ok
[16:17] <seb128> I'll try pinging davidz about that ;-)
[16:42] <mpt> "Open with [ gimp.desktop     :^]"
[16:42] <mpt> What's gimp.desktop?
[16:43] <mpt> The Launcher for Gimp, I suppose
[16:43] <mpt> ah, I know how this happened
[16:44] <mpt> I didn't know where Gimp was in the filesystem, so I dragged Gimp from the Applications menu into the filepicker
[16:44] <mpt> but instead of selecting Gimp (which would have been useful), it selected the Gimp .desktop file (which wasn't)
[16:55] <slomo> pedro_: ok, so a fix for the mono-program-segfault-on-exit is found now... how long until it's too late for hardy? ;)
[16:56] <seb128> slomo: the sooner the better, today or tomorrow would be nice
[16:56] <pedro_> slomo: great! yeah what seb128 said ;-)
[16:57] <slomo> seb128: ok, tomorrow is good :)
[16:58] <seb128> cool
[17:11] <slomo> seb128: do i need some kind of freeze exception or can i just go ahead and upload?
[17:11] <seb128> slomo: upload if that's just a bug fix and not a new version
[17:12] <slomo> seb128: well, either a new version with more fixes or just this single fix ;)
[17:12] <seb128> and maybe ping pitti to get his opinion ;-)
[17:14] <slomo> ok
[17:18] <slomo> pedro_: which is the bugreport for this? :)
[17:18] <pedro_> slomo: the bug 199496
[17:18] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 199496 in gtk-sharp2 "Tomboy.exe crashed with SIGSEGV in exit()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199496
[17:19] <slomo> thanks#
[17:19] <pedro_> no problem :-)
[17:19] <slomo> wtf, did you count the number of duplicates already? :)
[17:21] <pedro_> hehe there's other reports which i didn't marked as dup of it, because there's some people arguing about getting too much email :-P
[17:22] <mpt> That sounds bad
[17:22] <mpt> pedro_, is there a bug reported about that?
[17:22] <mpt> Launchpad's e-mail behavior shouldn't be discouraging people from marking duplicates
[17:22] <tedg> mpt: Launchpad's e-mail behavior is a true problem.
[17:23] <tedg> mpt: Lots of people on the Inkscape list complaining about it with the switch over.
[17:23] <tedg> mpt: Launchpad needs "server-side" filtering in the form of preferences.
[17:23] <mpt> tedg, are they complaining about the same problem as pedro_, or a different problem?
[17:23] <tedg> mpt: If the problem from pedro_ is too much mail, yes.
[17:24] <mpt> Which message types are they receiving that they don't want to receive?
[17:24] <tedg> mpt: Many people have made new GMail accounts, set them to get Launchpad mail, and just have them all dead end there.
[17:24] <tedg> Basically, they'd like to be in the bug control group without receiving all the mails about new bugs and bugs that they're not interested in.
[17:25] <mpt> aha
[17:25] <tedg> Or be able to filter it by tag or something.
[17:25] <tedg> So I could say "I'm interested in filters"
[17:25] <tedg> And then get info on all the bugs tagged with "filter"
[17:25] <pedro_> mpt: mm haven't seen one yet, but basically is about "i can't unsubscribe in a easy way"
[17:25] <mpt> ok, so three issues here
[17:26] <mpt> (1) can't obviously unsubscribe when your bug was marked as a duplicate
[17:27] <mpt> (bug 136570, bug 210457, bug 151101)
[17:27] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 136570 in malone "Can't unsubscribe from duplicates if dupe is private" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/136570
[17:27] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 210457 in malone "unsubscribing from a bug with duplicates would only unsubscribe from one duplicate?" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210457
[17:27] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 151101 in malone "Users not properly subscribed to bugs when their bug is marked as duplicate" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/151101
[17:28] <mpt> (2) can't subscribe to a tag
[17:28] <mpt> (Bug 151129)
[17:28] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 151129 in malone "Can't subscribe to a tag" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/151129
[17:28] <tedg> I think you're looking from the positive instead of the negative.  "Ignore all tags except" would probably be more useful.
[17:29] <mpt> and (3) can't be a bug supervisor without getting mailed about every damn bug report
[17:29] <mpt> I don't think #3 is reported, actually.
[17:29] <tedg> It would probably be easier to have an "expert field" where I can put "+filter -ugly +bob +alvin"
[17:29] <tedg> But that would have to be per-project as different projects use different tags.
[17:29] <mpt> Well, that's even more complex than subscribing to a tag
[17:30] <mpt> That's subscribing to a *search* :-)
[17:30] <tedg> Yes, I guess if you can unsubscribe all, then subscribe back that'd work too.
[17:30] <tedg> Kind of a "#3 #2 #2" type of thing.
[17:31] <tedg> In general, I'd say subscribe to inkscape-devel and start a thread that's "What's wrong with Launchpad mail?" -- you'll get some replies :)
[17:32] <tedg> Personally, I think the e-mails need more information in them.  I'm not sure what yet.
[17:32] <tedg> I'm thinking perhaps my last comment on the bug.
[17:33] <tedg> The reality is that when I get the mails, they're very much out of context, so I end up having to review what is going on before I can made a decision about whether the e-mail is useful or not.
[17:38] <mpt> reported bug 217337
[17:38] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 217337 in malone "Bug supervisors shouldn't be compulsorily subscribed to all bug reports" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/217337
[17:44] <slomo> seb128: ok, uploaded it now already... does ubuntu's dak accept changes files with version 1.8? :)
[17:45] <tedg> mpt: Thanks.
[17:46] <slomo> ok, it does
[17:46] <slomo> pitti: please accept gtk# and gnome#, thanks ;)
[17:50] <seb128> slomo: no idea about the version thing ;-)
[20:09] <cody-somerville> pedro_, ping. Please don't unassign bugs that I assign to myself. :) (sorry if you're the wrong person).
[20:11] <pedro_> cody-somerville: context bug 203183 ?
[20:11] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 203183 in nautilus "Hang on network operations" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/203183
[20:11] <cody-somerville> Yes.
[20:14] <pedro_> cody-somerville: ok no problem, will change it to confirmed then since you'll be working on it, i don't like to have a lot of bugs on new status
[20:15] <cody-somerville> Okay, you could mark it in progress if you'd like
[20:15] <pedro_> sure, thanks for raising it :-)
[20:15] <cody-somerville> Thanks :)
[20:15]  * cody-somerville hugs.
[20:40] <Amaranth> alex-weej: tempted to set https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/217404 to Won't Fix just because you should know better :P
[20:40] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 217404 in compiz "Compiz locks up occasionally" [Undecided,New]
[20:41] <alex-weej> Amaranth: why? :(
[20:41] <alex-weej> i can't get a trace till i'm back in london!
[20:41] <alex-weej> i don't have another computer!
[20:42] <alex-weej> or is it a popular dup? LP didn't suggest one :(
[20:42] <Amaranth> alex-weej: you just said you can ssh in and kill compiz to 'fix' it
[20:42] <Amaranth> need you to do that to the ati machine
[20:42] <alex-weej> ok, will try it tomorrow
[20:42] <alex-weej> i have been getting this for weeks
[20:42] <Amaranth> need to attach gdb and see what compiz is doing
[20:42] <alex-weej> just never bothered to really try and do anything about it till today
[20:43] <alex-weej> so you've not seen any other reports of this?
[20:43] <Amaranth> if you try to show me using the nvidia machine it'll end up doing something i can blame the nvidia driver for :P
[20:43] <alex-weej> i thought maybe some other people may be getting it, as i was getting it on 2 different machines with 2 different drivers and 2 different archs
[20:43] <alex-weej> ok, well we'll see tomorrow :>
[20:43] <Amaranth> other people get it but they can't help with it or they have an obvious nvidia bug
[20:43] <seb128> re
[20:44] <alex-weej> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/217404
[20:44] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 217404 in compiz "Compiz locks up occasionally" [Undecided,New]
[20:44] <Amaranth> I seem to get a lockup about once every other week but usually on pressing alt-sysrq-k to kill X the whole system freezes so I can easily blame nvidia
[20:45] <alex-weej> Amaranth: ever tried to fix it by killing compiz instead?
[20:45] <alex-weej> sysrq-k works for me too
[20:45] <alex-weej> but i don't like losing data :p
[20:45] <Amaranth> yes, then X is still broken and see above
[20:45] <alex-weej> oh right sorry i misread
[20:45] <alex-weej> on ati, i can kill X and get back to work
[20:45] <alex-weej> at least i think so
[20:46] <Amaranth> haven't had a lockup killing X could solve since gutsy was in development :)
[20:46] <Amaranth> well, no, i've had a couple
[20:46] <alex-weej> though now that i tink about it, i get the evil dotted lines occasionally. my memory sucks, let's try with real evidence rather than my own anecdotes tomorrow
[20:46] <Amaranth> remember, ati machine
[20:47] <alex-weej> i'll do both, they crash often enough :p
[20:48]  * alex-weej swears at depressed Show Desktop button
[20:48] <alex-weej> do we know what the problem with the show desktop plugin is?
[20:51] <seb128> cody-somerville: why should be keep bugs without the required informations open? they cluter the list and you can reopen when you debug the issue
[20:52] <cody-somerville> Because seb128 closed bugs disappear off the list.
[20:52] <cody-somerville> And a bug is a bug!
[20:52] <cody-somerville> If you're too lazy to do the legwork yourself, don't close the bug. Just wait. It isn't a race to close as many bugs as possible.
[20:52] <seb128> cody-somerville: that's not how the bug tracker works, or we would never close bugs and let thousand of "doesn't work" bugs open just because bugs are bugs
[20:53] <cody-somerville> Some bugs do deserve to be closed.
[20:53] <seb128> cody-somerville: I'm not lazy, you are just the only one to get the issue
[20:53] <cody-somerville> I don't think a majority of users use the features extensively as I do
[20:53] <seb128> and I'm not sure that insulting me is going to lead you somewhere
[20:53] <cody-somerville> seb128, I'm sorry, that wasn't a person insult.
[20:53] <seb128> that was
[20:53] <cody-somerville> *personal
[20:53] <cody-somerville> Or certainly wasn't intended.
[20:54] <seb128> calling me lazy must be a joke
[20:54] <seb128> do you really think I'm slacking the whole week?
[20:54] <cody-somerville> I used you're in a third person
[20:54] <cody-somerville> and I have no doubt in my mind that you're equally as busy as I am
[20:54] <seb128> do you have an idea of how many thousand bugs we have assigned to the desktop components?
[20:54]  * marnanel does the "omg" linguist hand to forehead gesture
[20:55] <Amaranth> alex-weej: no idea what the problem is, i can't reproduce easily
[20:55] <Amaranth> s/easily/at all because i don't use showdesktop/
[20:55] <alex-weej> i don't wanna lose windows now
[20:55] <alex-weej> but
[20:56] <seb128> cody-somerville: this bug is of no use, nobody else complained about it, there is no stacktrace, you have been asked those informations one month ago and didn't reply, I don't know why we should keep this bug on the desktop issues list if it's of no use
[20:56] <alex-weej> i think you can catalyse it by activating showdesktop, revealing the desktop (so the windows slide off the screen) then while you're in that state, disable show desktop
[20:56] <alex-weej> all hell breaks loose
[20:57] <cody-somerville> seb128, Because the issue does occur and I will get around to addressing it. Furthermore, could you please define what the "desktop issues list" is and what puts a bug on or off of it?
[20:57] <seb128> cody-somerville: the list is all the non closed bugs on any desktop component
[20:58] <seb128> cody-somerville: I'm changing it back to incomplete because it really lacks informations
[21:00] <cody-somerville> I don't mind if it is in progress or new or incomplete
[21:00] <cody-somerville> However, what I was looking to have was the bug assigned to me so that it is on my todo list.
[21:00] <seb128> alright
[21:28] <seb128> pitti: around?
[22:38] <alex-weej> seb128: pulseaudio is default on hardy now, right? well ALSA still isn't using it by default. which is bad.
[22:38] <alex-weej> basically, if a PA-using app is using sound
[22:38] <alex-weej> all ALSA apps will fail
[22:38] <alex-weej> unless you have hw mixing
[22:38] <alex-weej> we need to enable the alsa plugin for pulse
[22:38] <alex-weej> and then deal with all the bugs
[22:38] <alex-weej> or just throw pa out :/
[22:39] <seb128> alex-weej: I know almost nothing about sound but yes pulseaudio is used by default
[22:39] <alex-weej> and we're in freezes now daaaamn
[22:39] <alex-weej> i'm always too slow with this
[22:40] <ajmitch> sigh, bugs that show up on the first boot after upgrade, but not subsequently
[22:43] <seb128> hey ajmitch
[22:43] <seb128> ajmitch: it has been a while, how are you?
[22:43] <ajmitch> is it a nautilus bug that all the saved network locations I had from gutsy disappeared?
[22:43] <ajmitch> good, how are you?
[22:43] <seb128> alex-weej: what applications are broken? it should not be worst than esound was
[22:43] <seb128> ajmitch: busy but good otherwise, thanks ;-)
[22:44] <seb128> ajmitch: yes, nautilus switched to gvfs which is a totally new library and so don't know about gnomevfs links and nobody wrote migration code to change to bookmarks or something
[22:44] <alex-weej> seb128: the difference was esound used ALSA dmix, PA doesn't use dmix
[22:44] <ajmitch> ugh
[22:44] <seb128> alex-weej: any reason why it doesn't?
[22:45] <alex-weej> seb128: maybe it does... but i think lennart would have a lot to say if it did.
[22:45] <alex-weej> dmix is basically doing what pa is supposed to do
[22:45] <alex-weej> but pa does it better (apparently)
[22:45] <alex-weej> let me test...
[22:45] <ajmitch> oh well, it's better than the first boot after upgrade which I sadly can't reproduce - gnome-settings-daemon failed to start, desktop background was black with no icons. But since I can't reproduce it, I can't really file a bug :(
[22:46] <alex-weej> seb128: ERROR: from element /pipeline0/alsasink0: Could not open audio device for playback. Device is being used by another application.
[22:46] <alex-weej> PA definitely hogs the ALSA device
[22:46] <alex-weej> which is fine, as the intention is that ALSA uses the "pulse" plugin to route ALSA audio via pulse instead
[22:46] <alex-weej> but we're not doing it
[22:47] <alex-weej> i will open a report
[22:47] <seb128> ok
[22:55] <Amaranth> alex-weej: I'll mark it high and milestone it so someone who knows what is going on looks at it :)
[22:57] <alex-weej> Amaranth: it's already reported, i'm just cleaning it up now
[22:57] <alex-weej> one sec
[23:01] <alex-weej> Amaranth: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/198453
[23:01] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 198453 in pulseaudio "Default ALSA device must use PulseAudio, otherwise ALSA applications may fail" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[23:01] <alex-weej> also can you remove the pulseaudio bug-tracker link? that's to do with skype, which is not relevant
[23:02] <alex-weej> or can i do it?
[23:02] <alex-weej> i can't see how
[23:03] <Amaranth> i'll do it
[23:04] <alex-weej> seriously, this aint the first time i've tried to do it and gotten lost
[23:04] <alex-weej> is it actually possible for normal peons to do it?
[23:04] <Amaranth> i dunno
[23:06] <seb128> alex-weej: you can't delete tasks no, just change them to invalid
[23:07] <Amaranth> You used to be able to change the project they apply to as well but this one won't let me
[23:07] <Amaranth> I usually moved them to the 'Obsolete Junk' project so I'd stop getting email :)
[23:08] <seb128> you can make the task track no watch
[23:08] <seb128> and then change the settings
[23:08] <Amaranth> yeah, i changed it to no track but i still can't do anything but change it to invalid
[23:08] <Amaranth> which is fine here as i'm not getting email for the pulseaudio project
[23:10] <alex-weej> thanks travis
[23:11] <alex-weej> i think, in general, we should be paying much attention to that PerfectSetup page