[00:04] bdmurray: bug 185543 which has 70 some odd duplicates, was converted into a question by a user asking a question. But, it shouldn't be a question. [00:04] Launchpad bug 185543 in system-config-samba "system-config-samba.py crashed with SystemError in __init__()" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/185543 [00:05] greg-g: that's a new one [00:06] yeah, I was confused for a second why it was a question. [00:06] look at this "Convert back to bug" [00:07] oh, hah! [00:07] That is probably be worth documenting [00:07] yeah, hmm, how should I word this [00:10] "Converting back into a Bug as this issue is a bug, not a support request. For support requests please file a question at https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu" [00:10] or something similar [00:11] The comment is optional and I wouldn't want to spam that many people [00:11] It might not notify them w/o a comment [00:11] ah, ok, good point [00:13] I think the conversion process to a question and back needs some documenting though [00:14] probably [00:31] greg-g: were you subscribed to that bug at all? I wonder if everyone will get question and bug e-mail now. [00:40] bdmurray: I wasn't. And I decided not to subscribe since there was going to be a lot more mail most likely :) [00:40] in retrospect, yes, I should have [00:56] is it a known bug in gvfs that on ftp servers, you cannot delete entire directories including all their content? [00:58] danage: that works fine for me, which ftp server are you using? [00:58] is there anything on the logs of the server? [00:58] i think filezilla [00:59] let me check real quick [00:59] sure [01:00] ok here is what happens: "preparing delete" under file operations. it fetches the number of the files. Then: Couldn't remove the folder XYZ. under more details then: directory not empty [01:00] i skip all [01:00] look inside the directory and suprise: it is empty [01:03] i shall file a bug report [01:03] seems like a release critical behavior [01:04] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=522933 might be related [01:04] Gnome bug 522933 in ftp backend "copying or deleting a directory leads to a file not available error" [Normal,Unconfirmed] [01:04] is that the same error you're getting? [01:04] no [01:05] i should file a bug report, i think [01:05] this has been going on [01:21] ok i filed a bug report, #217975 [01:21] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/+bug/217975 [01:21] Launchpad bug 217975 in gvfs "Cannot delete folders on FTP" [Undecided,New] [01:24] is there a hidden ('.' prefixed) file in that directory? [01:48] lifeless: let me check [01:49] lifeless: no, empty even when i turn on "show hidden files" [01:51] ok now this is strange [01:51] the directory isn't empty! [01:51] i just connected with firefox [01:51] and it shows a couple of files in the folder [01:51] gvfs doesn't! [01:52] (the files don't start with .(something)) [01:52] is there some kind of directory cache? [01:58] I don't know sorry [02:34] lifeless : I can reproduce it there too [02:35] nautilus does not show files with filenames that start with . , even when it is configured to show hidden files, so I can't delete the folder unless I take filezilla to delete the hidden file before. [02:44] saivann: sounds like a bug in its use of ftp [02:46] lifeless : I'm currently writing a detailed list of steps to reproduce the bug. Seems that nautilus is not able to access hidden files through gvfs FTP plugin.. [02:48] hmm... my files aren't even hidden and it doesn't show it [02:49] danage : do you have files that does not start with . that are not shown with nautilus? [02:49] exactly [02:49] they are shown with firefox though [02:49] danage : Really! [02:49] yes [02:50] is there some sort of cache? [02:50] well that's really strange [02:50] that i might need to wipe out [02:50] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/+bug/217975 [02:50] Launchpad bug 217975 in gvfs "Cannot show/delete hidden files or delete folders that contains hidden files on FTP" [Low,Confirmed] [02:50] danage : I don't know, but you might try the "reload" button [02:51] same behavior [02:51] danage : Ho sorry, I did not read your description correctly "do not have a . in front of them" [02:52] the problem might be related though [02:52] danage : I though that you said "do have a . in from of them" [02:52] i could point that out more clearly [02:52] danage : maybe, can you give me a list of filenames that does not appears in your case? Just to test it [02:52] FTP can hide files [02:53] there are protocol options to say list all [02:53] yes, sec [02:54] /Music/will be deleted soon/Ada - Blondie/ [02:54] folder name [02:54] 02 - Ada - Cool My Fire (I'm Burning).mp3 [02:54] filename [02:54] this one didn't get deleted [02:54] AND doesn't show on nautilus list [02:55] it's not the () though, other files don't show either [02:55] danage : Interesting, let me try [02:58] danage : It does not show for me either [03:00] danage : Remove all "-" from the filenames, does it show? [03:06] hm i have no other ftp client [03:06] danage : If it's possible for you, you can install filezilla [03:07] sudo apt-get install filezilla [03:07] will do, just a second [03:07] danage : Great, thanks [03:08] the funny thing though is: some files in that folder had all the - - - 's [03:08] and DID show and DID get deleted [03:08] danage : Wow, really weird :P [03:08] will you be able to fix it? [03:10] danage : Actually not me but more the bug report is detailed and clear and well reported, more developers will be able to do a great job. I aim to make this job as simple as possible and to report this to the right people so it can be fixed as fast as possible [03:10] danage : Testing is always good :) [03:10] yeah, let's narrow this one down [03:10] in my opinion, it's release critical [03:13] we shoiuld probably make separate bugs out of these [03:13] 1) the hidden files [03:14] 2) tbd. [03:15] danage : According to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Importance , I believe that low is a correct priority. Anyway the priority is not the more important point, good bug description is what will really help the bug getting fixed [03:15] danage : tbd? What is tbd? [03:15] :) to be determined [03:15] danage : s/low/medium/ , sorry [03:15] ah :D [03:16] danage : Finally did you try without the "-" ? [03:16] sec [03:16] ok [03:17] suspense.... [03:18] hehe [03:18] ok removing the "0" didn't help [03:18] dash next [03:19] one -: nothing happens [03:19] danage : You really know how to create suspense : [03:19] 2: success [03:19] it shows now [03:19] wtf [03:19] strange bug [03:19] let me fiddle around a bit [03:20] danage : That's what I thought!! I think that I just found why some files worked while other did not, try to put a - at the beginning of the filename without spaces, in my case the file appears in nautilus [03:20] the file fjhdkjhkj-- shows [03:20] danage : exactly [03:20] it's the space and the -? [03:20] danage : Then the problematic character is "- " or " -" [03:20] ah [03:20] danage : Apparently [03:21] funny [03:21] let's narrow it down further [03:21] danage : Like you suggested, can you open a new bug report for that? [03:21] also: does it also affect directories? [03:21] yes i can [03:21] danage : Interesting point [03:21] we will change the existing one to include your info onl [03:21] y [03:21] danage : No, Ada - Bloundie shows [03:22] ah you are already [03:23] danage : Perhaps you can modify the description of the first bug report to speak only about the "dot" since it might be a different issue than the "- " one. I also wonder if other characters cause this kind of issues [03:23] i just changed it- check it out [03:23] i think it could stay like this [03:23] now, i will open a new report [03:24] it might be (space) - (space) [03:24] yes, it is not " -" [03:24] danage : Yes that's fine IMO, anyway my steps are sufficient and the bug is evident so.. [03:24] danage : really? Thanks for finding this out [03:26] ok here is what i have: no problem are: " -", "- ", "--" and " - " [03:26] occurring ONCE [03:26] WTF??? [03:26] hfds - hjkd - hgfjhkd [03:26] works! [03:27] where is the friggin difference? [03:27] danage : Yes... I'm also finding almost the same strange behavior with nouveau - fichier [03:27] t'es fraincais` [03:27] francais [03:27] danage : ouep :) [03:27] :) [03:27] canadien? [03:28] parce que c'est un peu tard en france a ce moment [03:28] danage : Oui, et toi Francais de France? [03:28] non, allemand mais j'habite en californie [03:28] danage : Hehe, ici c'est presque tard [03:28] danage : J'adore internet :) [03:28] ok so should i just put the original filenames that i have problems with in the bug report? [03:29] whoever wrote the code will prolly know much quicker [03:29] danage : If you still have some time, I believe that looking at this deeper can be helpful [03:29] danage : Well the actual filename is enough yes, we can add more comments later if we find interesting new stuff [03:30] yes [03:30] let me know what i should do [03:30] https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/211748 [03:30] Launchpad bug 211748 in gvfs "gvfs can't list hidden files through ftp" [Low,Invalid] [03:31] ??? [03:33] danage : Well... that would really be awful if it's true, but since it works with filezilla and not nautilus, I doubt that this bug is really invalid [03:33] me too [03:34] danage : And in my case, the FTP server is ProFTPD [03:34] try this one: 05 - fdf - fdfsd fdfsd fdsfs.mp3 [03:34] it will list!!! [03:34] danage : Maybe Capital letters? [03:34] maybe [03:36] danage : 02 - F'm Nouveau Test Test Test Test.mp3 does not work [03:36] hm [03:36] wtf [03:36] danage : The name seems to be limited in lenght [03:36] ah [03:37] or it's the spaces [03:37] 05 - fdf - fdfsdfdfsdfgsdfgsdfgsddsfsFdfs.mp3 [03:37] works! [03:39] danage : 02 Fm test test test setse Nouveau Test Test Test Tesddt.mp3 does not works. My understanding is that it's probably more the lenght of the filename that cause the problem then the special characters, special characters only get really long when they get translated and cause the real filename to exceed the limit [03:39] danage : I don't know what you think about that theory :) [03:40] special characters get three digits right? [03:40] %20 for spacew [03:40] for example [03:40] i am submitting it now [03:40] let's see what happens [03:40] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/+bug/218010 [03:40] Launchpad bug 218010 in gvfs "Certain filenames on FTP don't list in Nautilus" [Undecided,New] [03:42] danage : great, your theory is better than mine, fgdfgklsdfklgjsldfgjsldfgnjsldfkgnjsldfkgnjsldfkgnjsldfjkgndjsafgjkaseyfgksaerjfgykaerjyfjkdsjkdfjkjkjkdgjkdgdgnogslgngsrdkubgsdlrgbskljghkergt.mp3 show correctly :) Spaces might be a part of the problem === rockstar` is now known as rockstar_ [03:43] Testing this bug is kind of funny [03:43] yeah [03:43] make sure to add it to the description [03:43] and d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d.mp3 does not show! [03:44] danage : I believe that our bug report will show really relevant informations :) [03:44] and i want sebastien to fix it tomorrow!!!!! [03:44] hahahah [03:44] so it's not the uppercases either [03:44] and not the "-" [03:44] danage : Hehe, Sebastian is so active, that's incredible [03:45] danage : Apparently not.. [03:46] danage : No, the real problem is : More than 7 spaces in filename does not show [03:46] danage : Your guess was right [03:47] i count >6 [03:47] danage : Oh yes, sorry [03:47] ok [03:47] let me put it in description [03:47] danage : Now THAT is accurate :) [03:48] good job [03:48] yes! [03:49] nice and short [03:49] please confirm and set priority [03:50] ok now it's perfect [03:50] yep! [03:51] wow, well done! :) [03:51] thanks for your great testing on this :) [03:51] sure [03:51] you know, with open source i see it like this: if i want it to work, why don't i make it to work [03:52] and if i can't: why don't i kindly ask someone to make it work and giving him the easiest time fixing it [03:53] should we mark 217975 as double of the invalid one? [03:53] danage : sure, I really agree [03:54] danage : I prefered to add a little notice in the bug description about it [03:54] ok [03:54] so Sebastian will see it at the first look [03:54] ok [03:54] i hope we didnt spam people too much with all the changing around [03:55] hehe, well, my opinion is that we never have enough people fighting bugs [03:56] yeah [03:56] i wish i could [03:56] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/+bug/208524 [03:56] Launchpad bug 208524 in gvfs "Gvfs ftp module doesn't display file whose name is longer than 42 characters" [Medium,Triaged] [03:57] kinda related, probably [03:59] danage : I tested 42 characters and it works, looks like we have the real problem here.. [04:00] so we should probably add that to the bug report and link to ours [04:00] u gonna take care of it? [04:00] it might in both instances be a problem though [04:00] too long [04:01] by itself doesnt work [04:01] and 7 spaces by itself doesn't work [04:03] danage : I will comment on the upstream bug report and subscribe to all these bugs (and look if I can find other similar bugs). Also, I will report our bugs upstream [04:03] ok [04:03] cool [04:03] hope it gets fixed before the release [04:03] danage : I really don't know how it can be hard to fix.. [04:07] how come you can confirm bugs? [04:07] and set priority [04:09] danage : I applied to be a part of the bug control team. Anybody who demonstrate a strong devotion to bug triaging can apply. All you need to do is to seriously follow these rules https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage and to ask questions, Brian Murray is the one who approuve new members [04:10] hm i should maybe ask him [04:11] danage : Read all informations at the link that I provided to you and become a member of the bugsquad team, then once you have a couple of good bugs triaged, ask for your inclusion to the team and provide at least 5 good example of your work to Bria [04:12] Brain* [04:12] danage : Would be great to have you in the team tought :) [04:12] :) [04:12] Brian*.. [04:13] ok [04:13] eventually, i will qualify [04:13] i lack knowledge of coding [04:13] so most of my bugs are kinda like: i found the bug, how do i provide more info [04:13] kinda thing [04:14] danage : You actually don't need coding knowledge, but debugging knowledge, and good logic [04:15] i can debug [04:15] danage : Then maybe you can start with the bug squad and start triaging bugs, but without "super powers", then if you're confortable, you can go for the bug control team if you want [04:15] ok [04:17] the bug control team needs you to really know and follow the rules, but all bug triager knows some package better than other packages. I'm very active with usplash and gnucash for an example, but there are a lot of packages scare me [04:17] gvfs for example is something i could never understand [04:18] but i am highly impressed by the way they pulled it off in such a short time [04:18] danage : this is indeed very impressive [04:18] i like it a lot [04:18] what they might wanna put though is a pause/resume feature [04:20] ok, i have to get back to work [04:20] danage : There is similar ideas in ubuntu brainstorm, also people want file transfert queue instead of multiples transfert at once [04:20] fun working with you [04:20] queue is a good idea too [04:20] danage : Yes, thanks again for this great work! [04:21] that would be a serious advantage over mac os and windows [04:21] yes, really, the brainstorm is full of good ideas [04:21] yes... really, I voted up :) [04:21] :) [04:21] not that easy to implement though: queue only makes sense if transfer is on the same channel [04:22] i dont want a ftp transfer be queued after a hdd copy [04:22] danage : That's the kind of reflection that come with improvement :D [04:23] you sent our two bugs upstream? [04:24] danage : Yes [04:24] cool [04:24] danage : sorry if it takes time, I'll do it in the next miniutes [04:24] really excited now to see what they say [04:24] all cool, i was just curious [04:32] I'm finding upstream bugs that really sound like our bug.. so I'll mark comments about this too [04:32] url? [04:32] hah, we might have found the key to eliminate a couple of bugs [04:32] that would be killah [04:36] seen upstream bug [04:36] cool [04:36] u can remove my "to reproduce" though [04:37] it's in there twice nw [04:37] yours is better [04:38] danage : Where is your "to reproduce", note that I can only modify descriptions like you, comments are invincible :) [04:39] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=528346 [04:39] here [04:39] Gnome bug 528346 in ftp backend "Files on FTP with >6 spaces in filename don't list in Nautilus" [Major,Unconfirmed] [04:49] danage : ah... I did not do it correctly. we'll have to leave it like that, but at least it is well documented [04:50] shouldnt be a problem [04:50] I don't think so [04:50] let's see what happens!!! :) [04:52] danage : Yes, I hope that they will have time to fix it, but perhaps that it will be fixed as a Stable Release Update since the RC is almost there [04:52] We did a very good job [04:52] :) [04:52] stable release update= service pack for windows? [04:53] danage : Hehe, no, windows service pack changes UI and important things, SRU are bug fix and generally security fixes that are enough important to be accepted while the distribution is stable [04:54] ah [04:54] danage : Once a ubuntu release pass the Release Candidate state, updates must be really tested and require to fix important things [04:54] hm they might make an exception for gvfs since it is so new [04:55] but I'm not an expert on this [04:55] we'll see [04:55] possible, MOTUs will take the decision.. [04:55] saivann: hello [04:55] Or maybe that it will be backported [04:55] bdmurray : hi! [04:56] bdmurray : I hoped that I did not disturbed your activity when I said your name :) [04:56] saivann: nope, no problem [04:57] are you brian who is resposible for bug squad? [04:58] danage: Yes, I am brian [04:58] can i apply for the bug squad? [04:59] i dont know if my record supports an application, but i would kinda like to [04:59] Do you mean the bug control team? They are the ones who can set bug importance. [05:00] saivann: do i mean the bug control team? lol [05:00] ah ok my fault [05:00] danage : You can become a bug squad member without approval https://edge.launchpad.net/~bugsquad and I suggest you to start taking experience with this team before thinking about the bug control team. You will see if you are confortable [05:01] danage : That's what I did, after some time I was ready for the bug control team, and I knew that it was for me :) [05:02] saivann: and you've been doing great work! [05:02] bdmurray : Thanks, it's always great to ear this, i'm working hard and never quite sure that I do "ideal" work :) [05:03] bdmurray: you are from la? [05:03] i live in westwood [05:03] I'm actually in Oregon [05:03] :( [05:04] And I'm in Canada, it's quite cold here! [05:07] bdmurray : If danage ask you to become a member of the bug control team after some time, just a little comment : he does very good testing and it's great to work with him [05:07] saivann: okay, I'll remember that! What bug were you two working on just now? [05:08] ftp listing bug in gvfs/nautilus [05:08] Bug #217975 and #218010 [05:08] Launchpad bug 217975 in gvfs "Cannot show/delete hidden files or delete folders that contains hidden files on FTP" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/217975 [05:08] Launchpad bug 218010 in gvfs "Files on FTP with >6 spaces in filename don't list in Nautilus" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/218010 [05:08] here they are [05:11] It tooks a good amount of time to find exactly what was the problem, and we might have finally found the real cause of some upstream bugs [05:16] saivann: you know what though [05:16] for me, the hidden files/not hidden files thing works [05:17] i just renamed a file to .lshglkhdflj [05:18] danage : does .lshglkhdflj show in nautilus this time? [05:18] yes [05:18] try it yourself [05:18] we might have mislead ourselves on that one [05:19] i tried again just now, just to make sure [05:19] and it worked [05:20] danage : Well from my side, it still does not work, even after multiple re-try. If you click on the reload button, is it still here? [05:21] yes [05:21] then, there is a bug [05:27] danage : The hidden file problem might be more complex than we think. The problem now happens for me with filezilla, it worked perfectly and multiple times before. This would maybe mean that the problem is on the server side like described in duplicate bug 211748, but that would be very strange since it's two different FTP servers. [05:27] Launchpad bug 211748 in gvfs "gvfs can't list hidden files through ftp (dup-of: 217975)" [Low,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/211748 [05:27] Launchpad bug 217975 in gvfs "Cannot show/delete hidden files or delete folders that contains hidden files on FTP" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/217975 [05:27] yes, really strange [05:28] do you have a server log? [05:28] danage : That's a good idea, looking.. [05:28] also: my ftp server is a filezilla server too [05:28] running under windows [05:28] my linux filezilla is the one from the ubuntu repo [05:28] danage : My fileserver is a FTPdPro, and my client is filezilla [05:29] Aren't there some public anonymous ftp servers out there still too? [05:29] good idea, we should try those. do you know any with write access=? [05:30] I was thinking more about the spcaes bug [05:30] I don't have logs, that the FTP server of my website [05:30] saivann: i have the same problem. my brother is hosting it on a windows virtual machine [05:33] bdmurray : What were you thinking about the spaces bug? [05:34] anonymous ftp sites : http://www.ftp-sites.org/anonymous_ftp_sites_list_com_1.html [05:34] Just that having a public ftp server for anyone to see it at might be helpful. [05:36] We can use my FTP server, ftp://leservicetechnique.com/ username: brother password: ubuntu [05:40] danage : You know what? I believe that concerning hidden files bug, we were wrong, the server is the problem. I had the illusion that filezilla was able to list the hidden files just because filezilla remember the files that he created by himself, but otherwise forcing filezilla to list the directory make all files starting with a . disappears. The only way to show the files is to use "Server / force showing hidden files" [05:42] danage : At least, the major part of the problem is the server. However, unless it can lead to bad directory listing or other problems, I still believe that nautilus should be able to show these files like filezilla even when there hidden by the server since apparently a lot of servers hide files [05:43] but the problem about spaces is really a nautilus bug [05:43] s/nautilus/gvfs [05:45] saivann: ok, even better [05:45] you could add that information to the bug report [05:45] and pull it [05:45] so that other people who might want to report the same bug [05:46] will find ours, and refrain from reporting a new one [05:49] danage : I'm doing this right now, also I will set the priority to low since a part of the problem is caused by the server and not gvfs itself [05:59] danage : Great, thanks for finding this out! Bug updated [05:59] yes and thanks for improving this [05:59] ;) [05:59] ubuntu = getting better and better [06:00] I agree to this :) [06:00] it is coming REALLY close to being a real alternative to windows, even for the average user [06:00] i am never going back to windows [06:01] danage : Actually, I can do pretty more things with linux ubuntu than any other systems! Each time I repair a computer or try to restore a corrupted Hard Drive, I use linux [06:01] yeah me too [06:01] same thing [06:01] And I have a lot of customers that use linux [06:01]