[00:00] <greearb> er, ok..trying again
[00:03] <greearb> this is just a small little package?
[00:03] <greearb> linux-meta-.... ?
[00:04] <amitk> greearb: you need to get 'apt-get source linux-image-2.6.24-16-generic'
[00:05] <greearb> ok, sorry for my confusion...never used debian so much...downloading that now
[00:07] <alex_joni> amitk: you wouldn't be familiar with the livecd by any chance?
[00:07] <amitk> greearb: it is confusing even to me sometimes :)
[00:08] <alex_joni> I'm looking for the list of packages which get installed by default.. and I can't seem to remember where that was
[00:08] <amitk> alex_joni: not particularly and definitely not at 2am :)
[00:08] <alex_joni> amitk: same TZ as here ;)
[00:09] <amitk> alex_joni: you want to catch cjwatson when he is online
[00:09] <greearb> ok, that rules.d looks correct now.  It'll take me a few hours to port my patch forward probably...
[00:10] <alex_joni> greearb: if you have a single patch file it's not that complicated
[00:10] <alex_joni> I would still create a custom flavour (call it greearb)
[00:11] <greearb> heh, I have a large number of patches to various parts of the kernel
[00:11] <alex_joni> then look at debian/binary-custom.d
[00:11] <greearb> ok
[00:11] <alex_joni> create a new folder called greearb ;) and put the patches in there..
[00:11] <alex_joni> there's a README which will guide you further
[00:12] <greearb> ok, will look at all that...I first need to get the patches so that they will apply to this kernel.
[00:12] <alex_joni> (not particularely sure it works with udebs for custom flavours.. but it should afaik)
[00:26] <bigcx2> hey all
[00:26] <bigcx2> i was in here this morning asking about squashfs
[00:26] <bigcx2> i've selected squashfs inside my kernel config
[00:27] <bigcx2> and i've run  make-kpkg --append-to-version -squashfs --revision r1 --initrd --config oldconfig kernel_image
[00:27] <bigcx2> but...
[00:27] <bigcx2> when i run update-initramfs -u -v i don't see that it's getting compiled into the kernel
[00:27] <bigcx2> any clues?
[00:28] <cjwatson> alex_joni: given a live CD, the simplest way is to look at /casper/filesystem.manifest-desktop
[00:28] <alex_joni> cjwatson: I just figured that out.. thanks a lot anyway
[00:28] <alex_joni> btw.. I read about 20 minutes of sources (ubiquity) until I reached that conclusion :D
[00:29] <cjwatson> alex_joni: of course that's several steps down the chain; in general, it's the dependency-expansion of a bunch of "seeds"
[00:29] <alex_joni> cjwatson: short question though.. if I have a package I'm interested in.. I only need to put it in there, not it's dependencies too.. right?
[00:29] <cjwatson> no, you need to put everything in there
[00:29] <alex_joni> is it me, or the older manifest-desktop didn't have versions?
[00:30] <cjwatson> there are ways to automate it (which we use in our own build processes) but they're probably overkill for a one-shot deal
[00:30] <alex_joni> yeah, sure.. I only have 1 package + dependencies
[00:30] <cjwatson> alex_joni: it's you; the livefs manifests have had versions since they were created
[00:30] <cjwatson> (the keyword for the automation in question is "germinate")
[00:30] <alex_joni> huh.. germinate? sounds fun
[00:30] <cjwatson> sample dependency-expanded lists of packages for Ubuntu are at http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/ubuntu.hardy/
[00:31] <cjwatson> germinate: vt. to cause seeds to grow
[00:32] <alex_joni> cjwatson: cool.. probably extends my knowledge absorbing atm
[00:32] <cjwatson> yeah, it's only if you care about how we maintain it
[00:32] <cjwatson> very much designed so that ordinary Ubuntu developers can forget about the process and not have to edit lists of packages every time a dependency changes
[00:32] <alex_joni> cjwatson: I do this once every couple of years/versions
[00:33] <alex_joni> and each time it's more complex (and automated)
[00:33] <alex_joni> so I'm not sure if anything I know now will be valid by 10.4 or whatever the next LTS will be :D
[00:34] <alex_joni> cjwatson: it looks like quite a lot of work
[00:35] <cjwatson> this particular bit of it has not changed a whole lot since 6.06
[00:35] <cjwatson> also, I documented the manifest handling in ubiquity/doc/README a while back
[00:36] <cjwatson> yeah, manifest-desktop was created while ubiquity was still called espresso, so pre-release dapper
[00:38] <alex_joni> yeah, I noticed a couple of things are the same since dapper
[00:38] <alex_joni> (most of the customization part of the LiveCD - squashfs, etc)
[00:42] <alex_joni> cjwatson: I notice the docs on the wiki tell one to regenerate the filesystem.manifest then cp that as filesystem.manifest-desktop
[00:43] <alex_joni> so I guess that takes care of things
[00:43] <greearb> alex_joni, I think I have all of that documented, except for the new kernel...I'll be happy to email it to you...
[00:45] <alex_joni> greearb: feel free if you think I can do anything with it :)
[00:46] <cjwatson> alex_joni: unwise to cp, would need to cp and remove stuff
[00:46] <cjwatson> I'm afraid I haven't been able to keep track of what people have been writing in the wiki - that didn't come from me
[00:46] <greearb> there are about 10 wikis, at least, related to this :)
[00:46] <alex_joni> cjwatson: well.. they do remove ubiquity
[00:47]  * alex_joni meant https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization
[00:47] <greearb> most similar to others...and most slightly wrong it seems, depending on your version and what you are trying to do.
[00:47] <cjwatson> alex_joni: I would be inclined to manually add the things you want to both, rather than trying to duplicate the list that's removed
[00:48] <cjwatson> occasionally I do try to dive in and clean stuff out, but labours of Heracles etc. :-)
[00:48] <alex_joni> cjwatson: how about after doing an apt-get update && upgrade.. which just pulled another 450 packages in?
[00:49]  * alex_joni doesn't want to think about updating that list by hand
[00:50] <alex_joni> cjwatson: I'll do the cp right now (only temp. version for testing), then after the final hardy CD is released, I'll be careful to add only a couple of packages
[00:51] <cjwatson> alex_joni: in that case diff the manifests beforehand and take account of what's removed
[00:51] <cjwatson> alex_joni: ubiquity doesn't actually care about the versions in the manifest files - the versions there are just informational
[00:51] <cjwatson> so if you literally did upgrade and not dist-upgrade, then it won't actually matter
[00:51] <cjwatson> (except cosmetically)
[00:51] <alex_joni> heh, ok.. good to know
[00:52] <alex_joni> btw, whoever did parallel makesquashfs is my hero
[00:52] <alex_joni> Parallel mksquashfs: Using 2 processors
[00:53] <greearb> yeah, it only takes maybe 10 minutes now :)
[00:58] <alex_joni> cjwatson: thanks again, I'm off to bed now
[01:07] <jdong> alex_joni: yeah, multithreaded squashing is my best friend too
[02:45] <bigcx2> anybody have any clues about the squashfs stuff?
[02:59] <greearb> like what?
[03:05] <bigcx2> i'm trying to compile squashfs into a 2.6.20 (ubuntu'ized) kernel
[03:05] <bigcx2> and it works but it never makes into the ramdisk?
[03:05] <bigcx2> doing an update-initramfs -u -v doesn't show it in there
[03:06] <bigcx2> this is for a livecd
[03:06] <bigcx2> so whenever i boot
[03:06] <bigcx2> it fails on mounting the root filesystem
[03:06] <bigcx2> which is obviously squashfs
[03:08] <bigcx2> i'm using make-kpkg with --initrd
[03:08] <bigcx2> if that helps at all
[03:09] <bigcx2> i'm not sure what else to try?
[03:09] <greearb> it seems a big pain to get a kernel updated on a live cd image...I'm trying to do the same myself.
[03:10] <bigcx2> apparently
[03:10] <bigcx2> have you gotten it to boot completely?
[03:10] <greearb> I'm hacking my patch set now..when it compiles, hopefully I'll get a bit further...  I'll write it up then and post it somewhere
[03:10] <greearb> not with a custom kernel, but I did with an updated ubuntu kernel
[03:11] <greearb> ie, something you can get with apt-get install ...
[03:11] <bigcx2> ahh -- what k version, what ubuntu version?
[03:11] <greearb> 7.10 (er, current stable..whatever that is), and 8.04-beta is what I'm working on now.
[03:12] <bigcx2> i c
[03:12] <bigcx2> yea i'm hacking on feisty, which sucks -- the rest of the world has moved on lol
[03:13] <greearb> I'm guessing it will all be similar..but will be more sure when I actually get something working :)
[03:14] <bigcx2> hah yea
[04:33] <greearb> I got the debian/rules custom-binary-foo to build, but that didn't do udebs.  There is a binary-udebs target that seems to be compiling everything from scratch again...  Do I need to somehow tell it that it's part of the 'foo' build?
[04:36] <bigcx2> i talked to someone in here this morning that said udebs were only for the alternate install cd
[04:36] <greearb> well, I'm trying to build an alternate install cd, so that's probably want I want
[04:36] <bigcx2> oh lol
[04:37] <bigcx2> in that case this might point you in the right direction
[04:37] <bigcx2> http://dsplabs.utt.ro/~juve/blog/index.cgi/01147559232
[04:38] <greearb> yep, found it already..it's for an older release, but some of it might still work
[04:39] <bigcx2> yea..isn't that what you were hoping for earlier :)
[08:08] <kraut> moin
[15:50] <TomJaeger> Hi.  What's the status on bug #124406?
[15:50] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 124406 in linux "Keyboard keys get stuck and repeat (Feisty, Gutsy)" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/124406
[15:51] <TomJaeger> more specifically, the issue Helge and I are seeing
[15:53] <TomJaeger> Also, feel free to try and reproduce it, I don't think it's tied to any particular hardware
[15:55] <alex_joni> short question on linux-meta.. trying to build debs for my custom flavour, but somehow the deps are twisted
[15:56] <alex_joni> debian/control holds this dependency: linux-headers-$(kernel-abi-version)-rtai
[15:57] <alex_joni> however, after the package gets generated I see only linux-headers-2.6.24--rtai (missing the abi '16')
[15:58] <alex_joni> (looks the same for the traditional stuff I didn't touch.. like -rt)
[16:02] <alex_joni> hmm.. crap.. n/m me.. was missing gawk
[16:27] <TomJaeger> bug #124406 anyone?
[16:27] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 124406 in linux "Keyboard keys get stuck and repeat (Feisty, Gutsy)" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/124406
[16:34] <TomJaeger> I should say that there is a patch and it just needs to be applied
[17:52] <alex_joni> what's a reason for an ABI bump?
[18:00] <thom> the ABI changing
[18:03] <jdong> thom: you have just made my day :D
[18:08] <alex_joni> thom: funny..
[18:08] <alex_joni> is it supposed to happen on released versions (e.g. hardy after it's shipped out) ?
[18:09] <cjwatson> it can happen, yes
[18:10] <cjwatson> security fixes can change the module ABI from time to time
[18:11] <cjwatson> thom's response is actually pretty accurate, but if you want something more detailed, the ABI in question is the interface between the kernel and modules; simplifying massively, if exported functions change their signatures such that modules need to be rebuilt to cope, that's an ABI change
[18:11] <alex_joni> cjwatson: I was vaguely familiar with what ABI stands for.. probably my question was bogus :)
[18:12] <cjwatson> we've had to change the ABI after release in almost every Ubuntu release so far
[18:12] <cjwatson> gutsy has been lucky so far
[18:12] <cjwatson> but all of dapper, edgy, feisty have had post-release ABI bumps
[18:12] <alex_joni> yeah, but in dapper it wasn't that problematic for me
[18:13] <infinity> alex_joni: What are you finding problematic about ABI bumps, post-dapper?
[18:13] <alex_joni> infinity: having a custom flavour is what makes it problematic
[18:13] <alex_joni> and having to deal with lum, lrm, lbm and meta packages for all that
[18:14] <alex_joni> infinity: don't understand me wrong.. what you guys have in place is a great infrastructure.. but it's a bit overengineered for my own needs...
[18:14] <infinity> Automation is key. :)
[18:14] <alex_joni> infinity: I understand.. but atm I'm doing the automation by hand.. step by step :)
[18:15] <infinity> "Oh look, new kernel"; fetch-sources; apply-local-patches; push-big-red-build-button; go-for-coffee.
[18:16] <alex_joni> infinity: yeah, but the thing started as a livecd/install environment for our app (which contains kernel modules, and thus kernel-ver dependent)
[18:16] <alex_joni> so when ABI changes, and new kernels come out (which through git is quite easy to track), I still have to push a new release on our own software
[19:23] <greearb> ok, back to trying to install a custom kernel on a live-cd.  Turns out the whole 'udeb' thing was a red herring, it doesn't build initrds for the live-cd.
[19:24] <greearb> I do have some good notes for anyone who wants to do that though....
[19:24] <greearb> now, my problem is that I need to compile the headers for my custom kernel.
[19:25] <greearb> I got the source:  apt-get source linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24
[19:25] <greearb> then attempted to build them:
[19:25] <greearb> akeroot debian/rules binary-arch arch=i386 flavours=foo
[19:26] <greearb> however, the auto-generated debian/control is still relating to generic and not foo.  I tried setting debian/d-i/kernel-versions to something with 'foo' in it, but it still does not fully work.
[19:26] <greearb> Since the debian/control file is regenerated each time, I can't even run 'sed' tricks to force it right.
[19:27] <greearb> suggestions are welcome :)
[19:35] <alex_joni> greearb: you need debian/rules debian/control first
[19:36] <alex_joni> but that assumes you changed the needed places 
[19:36] <greearb> can you be any more specific?  That doesn't make so much sense :)
[19:36] <alex_joni> control.stub
[19:36] <alex_joni> you need to add descriptions for you flav
[19:37] <alex_joni> then you need to add you falvour to at least rules.d/i386.mk:custom_flavours
[19:37] <alex_joni> and to rules.d/0-common-vars.mk:all_custom_flavours
[19:37] <greearb> ok, will try that in a sec..
[19:38] <alex_joni> btw, back on breezy I needed two things
[19:38] <alex_joni> one is kernel + initrd (you can get those from /boot/ from you regular machine)
[19:38] <alex_joni> and the other is the udebs which get loaded lateron
[19:38] <alex_joni> brb
[19:39] <greearb> don't think I need the udebs, seems that is only for non-live CD builds
[19:47] <alex_joni> cjwatson: any ideas why I would get "/init: .:  159: Can't open /scripts/casper" ?
[19:47] <alex_joni> (I'll dig for it, but thought you might know without looking..)
[19:48] <greearb> seems control.stub might be auto-generated from control.stub.in ?
[19:49] <alex_joni> greearb: you're getting warmer :P
[19:54] <greearb> no luck
[19:55] <greearb> building with:  fakeroot debian/rules binary-arch arch=i386 flavours=foo
[19:55] <greearb> is that right?
[19:56] <alex_joni> nope
[19:56] <alex_joni> I use fakeroot debian/rules custom-binary-arch=rtai iirc
[19:56] <greearb> for the headers as well?
[19:57] <greearb> I'm not building the kernel here...just the headers package
[19:57] <alex_joni> I use fakeroot debian/rules custom-binary-rtai
[19:57] <greearb> ok
[19:57] <alex_joni> that builds image & headers too
[19:57] <alex_joni> brb
[19:57] <greearb> bleh, I mean modules, not headers.  I need the cramfs modules and such
[19:57] <greearb> will try poking some more
[20:08] <alex_joni> cjwatson: changing boot option "boot=casper" to "boot=local" makes it go a bit faster .. but it hangs furtheron
[20:08] <alex_joni> cjwatson: I also get _tons_ of udevd messages so anything usefull is lost somewhere..
[20:15] <greearb> ahh, by hacking debian/rules to add a fixup script after the debian/control is generated, I seem to be making progress
[20:16] <greearb> got udebs for free, too :)
[21:19] <greearb> got it to boot!  But, seems the gnome toolbar died, so no way I can find to open a bash window to check things in more detail.
[21:19] <greearb> not sure if it's a qemu issue or something else
[21:54] <alex_joni> cjwatson: probably didn't update initramfs (mkinitramfs -o /initrd.gz 2.6.24-16-rtai)
[22:23] <cjwatson> alex_joni: you forgot to install casper before running update-initramfs -u?
[22:23] <cjwatson> (or other mkinitramfs method)
[22:28] <alex_joni> cjwatson: probably just borked the initramfs (used the install one, not the live-cd generated one)
[22:31] <cjwatson> oh, don't do that :)
[22:31] <greearb> any idea what the apt-get package for the 'install' desktop icon on the live-cd is called?  I managed to uninstall mine somehow...
[22:32] <cjwatson> greearb: the desktop file is in ubiquity, but casper is what's responsible for getting it onto the desktop
[22:32] <cjwatson> see scripts/casper-bottom/10adduser in the casper source package
[22:33] <greearb> ok, I removed a bunch of things...looks like I lost it to a dependency..will try re-adding, or if necessary, start over and be more careful.
[22:36] <alex_joni> cjwatson: I just booted the live cd I made :)
[22:36] <alex_joni> (this is from the live .. so it works :D)
[22:37]  * alex_joni is happy
[22:37] <greearb> congratz!
[22:40] <greearb> here are my notes.  This worked for me, though I've yet to run it all from a clean install, so I might be missing a few things yet.
[22:40] <greearb> http://www.candelatech.com/oss/ubuntu-live-notes.txt
[22:40] <greearb> feel free to link to them from any of the wiki pages and/or use this in any manner (including outright copying it somewhere else)
[22:41] <alex_joni> greearb: you missed an 'e' on welcome.
[22:41] <greearb> fixed :)
[23:07] <TomJaeger> What does the kernel team think about the patch attached to bug #124406?
[23:07] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 124406 in linux "Keyboard keys get stuck and repeat (Feisty, Gutsy)" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/124406
[23:20] <TomJaeger> ping
[23:31] <smb_tp> TomJaeger: Hi Tom, sorry I did not have much time today to look at it. I also would like to discuss this with the others.
[23:35] <TomJaeger> cool.  I should mention that patch fixes a different (but nevertheless very annoying) problem than the original report was about.
[23:41] <smb_tp> TomJaeger: I am not sure I can promise much. If I look (not very thouroughly, I admit) at the patch it seems to change the scheduler and feels not like something to do that late in teh cycle. 
[23:42] <smb_tp> s/and feels/and taht feels/
[23:42] <smb_tp> s/taht/that/ (can't type any more)
[23:44] <TomJaeger> That's why I bisected the issue right when I noticed how I could reproduce it.
[23:46] <TomJaeger> This has been fixed upstream for almost two months now, and it's not like it makes some fundamental changes to the scheduler
[23:47] <cjwatson> can I suggest that it might be worth considering this for 8.04.1 rather than 8.04?
[23:48] <cjwatson> then there'll be time to find out if it breaks the world when applied to Ubuntu
[23:48] <cjwatson> assuming that it goes in early in the 8.04.1 period
[23:49] <smb_tp> That would be something I personally would feel better with. But surely I'd like to ask the others, too.