[00:03] <asac> -
[00:04] <fta> I still have openoffice.org-hyphenation-en-us held back by apt, is that a known bug ?
[00:05] <fta> and dist-upgrade wants to remove the lang packs: The following packages will be REMOVED:
[00:05] <fta>   language-support-en language-support-fr language-support-writing-en language-support-writing-fr mozilla-firefox-locale-en-gb mozilla-firefox-locale-fr-fr
[00:07] <fta> calc: i have problem with openoffice.org-hyphenation-en-us
 I still have openoffice.org-hyphenation-en-us held back by apt, is that a known bug ?
 and dist-upgrade wants to remove the lang packs: The following packages will be REMOVED:
   language-support-en language-support-fr language-support-writing-en language-support-writing-fr mozilla-firefox-locale-en-gb mozilla-firefox-locale-fr-fr
[00:08] <calc> fta: hold on a second let me see
[00:08] <slangasek> there was a buggy version of a language pack earlier which depended on OOo-hyphenation-en-us but shouldn't have
[00:08] <fta> I have 2.3.1-1ubuntu2, apt wants me to install 2.3.1-2ubuntu1
[00:08] <slangasek> try apt-get install language-support-en ?
[00:09] <fta> language-support-en is already the newest version.
[00:09] <calc> slangasek: it should work at this point regardless
[00:09] <calc> ooo-hyphenation-en-us 2.3.1-2ubuntu1 replaces openoffice.org-hyphenation (<< 0.3)
[00:10] <calc> and openoffice.org-hyphenation is at 0.3 now in hardy
[00:10] <slangasek> er, what
[00:10] <slangasek> why is that a versioned replaces?!
[00:10] <calc> is that wrong?
[00:10] <slangasek> yes
[00:10] <calc> openoffice.org-hyphenation no longer ships en-us
[00:10] <slangasek> since when?
[00:11] <calc> since apr 8
[00:11] <slangasek> ... and hyphen is now in main, gar
[00:11] <calc> hyphen should be being used by OOo already but it had a bug so i had to drop it again :(
[00:11] <slangasek> why were people futzing around with this post-beta?
[00:12] <slangasek> ok, I can't account for dist-upgrade's behavior then
[00:13] <slangasek> that also means that language-support-writing-en is broken again, because I told ArneGoetje to back out the dependency on the universe package. :P
[00:13] <calc> fta: are you upgrading to current hardy or to beta or something?
[00:13] <calc> slangasek: er oops, sorry about that
[00:13] <fta> i've been using hardy since day 1
[00:13] <slangasek> only to have the package move to main, and the OOo package lose the contents, without anyone telling the RM.
[00:13] <calc> slangasek: you commented on the change at the time from what i recall
[00:14] <calc> slangasek: i don't remember what the comment was though since i was in the process of packing for prague at the time
[00:14] <calc> fta: can you use the problem resolver to see what it is holding it back?
[00:14]  * calc doesn't remember the argument to make that work though
[00:14] <slangasek> er, yes; I commented saying that OOo shouldn't be changed
[00:15] <calc> slangasek: oh, i see :( the bug was still set target for hardy to be fixed, which was i did it
[00:16] <fta> i have openoffice.org-hyphenation 0.2 and openoffice.org-hyphenation-en-us Replaces openoffice.org-hyphenation (<< 0.3)
[00:16] <fta> (since 2.3.1-2ubuntu1)
[00:17] <calc> slangasek: that should work right?
[00:17] <fta> or at least post 2.3.1-1ubuntu2
[00:17] <slangasek> calc: the replaces should work, yes; like I said, given what I see now in the archive I can't account for the upgrade problem in question
[00:17] <calc> fta: both openoffice.org-hyphenation 0.3 and openoffice.org-hyphenation-en-us 2.3.1-2ubuntu1 exist in hardy
[00:17] <calc> fta: do you have anything set to hold?
[00:17] <calc> fta: er manually set to hold that is
[00:18] <mario_limonciell> FWIW, i always see an openoffice.org-hyphenation removed in /var/log/installer/syslog with current DVD releases no matter how many or which languages are picked for install
[00:18] <fta> hm, it's in rc state. i guess that's why. seems it got removed partially before.
[00:19] <fta> ok, fixed
[00:20] <calc> mario_limonciell: not sure why that would be happening
[00:21] <mario_limonciell> calc, yeah i didn't want to start pointing fingers until i knew why it was happening too
[00:22] <calc> i'm downloading todays image right now so i can take a look
[00:22] <calc> well the cd version anyway
[00:22] <mario_limonciell> i've not verified it happens in the CD image
[00:22] <mario_limonciell> i don't know that it is preinstall in that livefs
[00:22] <calc> ah
[00:22] <calc> my bandwidth is too low to download a DVD in any decent amount of time
[00:24] <mario_limonciell> calc, well comparing the manifest from the two, it looks like -hyphenation is installed on both, but the DVD ends up with a whole bunch more localized variants of it too
[00:24] <cjwatson> it would, the point of the different DVD live filesystem is to have lots more localisation
[00:26] <calc> wow amd64 desktop cd is within 2MB of oversize
[00:26] <calc> thats a tight fit, heh
[00:51] <slangasek> Amaranth: doesn't look like anything's happened with bug #118936 since the last time we talked...
[00:51] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 118936 in alacarte "Alacarte does not recover deleted menu items" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/118936
[02:30] <mathiaz> hmm... I've just experienced the "shudown the system" when the batery is critically low - I got the warning the message saying that the system is about to shutdown if the AC is not reconnected soon. I reconnected the AC power cable (took around 5 secs), but the system had already started to shutdown.
[02:31] <jdong> Reconnect power in 5.....4.....
[02:31] <mathiaz> So how long do I have to reconnect my power cable before it starts to shutdown ?
[02:31] <mathiaz> I thought I was quick enough
[02:34] <ogra> mathiaz, gconf-editor, have a look at /apps/gnome-power-manager/thresholds
[02:34] <xtknight> is there a good way to detect whether a volume is in fstab or whether hal mounted it?  like some hal property?
[02:34] <ogra> it seems to default to shut down at 2%
[02:35] <xtknight> i have the uuid of the hal disk
[02:35] <jdong> xtknight: /media/.hal-mtab?
[02:36] <xtknight> jdong, oh that's great. thx
[02:40] <mathiaz> ogra: right - and the critical percentage is 3%
[02:41] <mathiaz> ogra: seems that the difference was too small in my case
[02:42] <mathiaz> ogra: however use_time_for_policy is set to True
[02:42] <xtknight> jdong,  well there's a problem where hal mounts the device in the order the user invokes each device instead of by any consistent method.  therefore when the user goes to a hal disk and references it, he gets disk sometimes, disk-1 sometimes, disk-2, and so on.  that's bad when you're making a music playlist.  is this somehow being dealt with, or??
[02:44] <jdong> xtknight: I presume by labeling the disk in question
[02:44] <jdong> that would be the best solution IMO
[02:44] <xtknight> jdong, how is this done?
[02:44] <jdong> disklabel
[02:44] <jdong> err what am I saying
[02:44] <jdong> that's BSD :D
[02:44] <xtknight> i did set-property volume.label but it wipes when i reboot.  additionally Rename is not enabled in nautilus
[02:45] <xtknight> needs to go in preferences.fdi doesnt it?
[02:45] <jdong> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RenameUSBDrive
[02:45] <jdong> for FAT32 that's mtools
[02:45] <xtknight> ah so hal actually uses the filesystem label.  i did not know that
[02:45] <jdong> right, AFAICT it uses the filesystem label unless there is none
[02:46] <jdong> at which point it defaults to silly generic names
[02:47]  * ScottK notes that gnome-games is depwait and someone might want to fix that that cares about Gnome.
[02:47] <ScottK> soren: We're good now.
[03:12]  * soren declares bed time
[03:21] <ScottK> mjg59: Was there an approval by motu-release for your moblin-image-creator upload?  I can't seem to find it.
[03:41] <calc> the last hardy OOo upload is now accepted
[03:47]  * calc isn't sure that the update of ubuntuforums was an improvement
[03:48] <calc> they got rid of the search in the top right, and made user cp into a link instead of a menu
[03:48] <calc> and no home link anymore
[04:05] <calc> ah i see the faq they are still in progress for most of it
[04:07] <TheMuso> Could anybody running Ubuntu on any architecture please try and run onboard for me, and if you have a live CD handy, please boot that, Press F5, ahd choose the on-screen keyboard option, and let me know what happens for all tests?
[04:16] <TheMuso> bug 220475 if anyone has comments.
[04:16] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 220475 in onboard "Onboard segfaults on Ubuntu Hardy" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220475
[04:37] <tedg> TheMuso: I have a Kubuntu Desktop CD and the only F5 options I have is "High Contrast", "Magnifier" and "Keyboard Modifiers".  I don't see an onscreen keyboard.
[04:38] <TheMuso> tedg: Thats because its only on Ubuntu.
[04:38] <TheMuso> As I said, running Ubuntu.
[04:39] <tedg> Ah, I figured they'd be the same in that regard.
[04:45] <mathiaz> ScottK: what is used in Kubuntu to share directories via samba ?
[04:46] <jdong> zul: thanks for the advice on using kvm. It's working beautifully; and with libvirt it's working better than anything I've ever used for virtualization
[04:48] <ScottK> mathiaz: No idea.  I don't use samba.  Sorry.
[04:49] <ScottK> mathiaz: Lots of people in #kubuntu-devel that might be able to tell you.
[04:49] <mathiaz> ScottK: I'm looking at bug 158341
[04:50] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 158341 in samba "Samba is still a pain in kubuntu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/158341
[04:50] <ScottK> OK.  I'd suggest asking in #kubuntu-devel.
[04:50] <mathiaz> ScottK: I would like to reassign the bug to kubuntu as this is an integration problem with it.
[04:50] <mathiaz> ScottK: ok - Thanks.
[05:07] <calc> how big does the swap partition have to be to be able to hibernate?
[05:07] <calc> does it need to be same size as ram, more?
[05:07] <jdong> calc: 2x RAM in worst case scenario
[05:07] <jdong> calc: usually same size you can get away with it
[05:08] <calc> it compresses when hibernating right?
[05:08] <jdong> calc: I'm not sure if our default hibernation algorithm does
[05:08] <calc> oh ok
[05:08] <jdong> uswsusp does, and so does tuxonice (not in Ubuntu)
[05:08] <calc> i'll just leave it at same size
[05:08]  * Hobbsee wonders why the update-manager-core upload wants to remove ubuntu-desktop update-manager & update-notifier
[05:08] <jdong> yeah same size is usually safe
[05:08] <calc> i have 4GB ram so was wondering ;)
[05:09] <calc> trying to see if i could get away with much less, but it sounds like it would be good to keep it at the same amount
[05:09] <jdong> calc: the hibernator nukes your cache so estimate how much RAM is actually being used by apps
[05:09] <jdong> calc: I'd guess 3-4GB would be enough
[05:09] <calc> ah ok :)
[05:09] <Fujitsu> But writing out cache to disk makes so much sense!
[05:10] <calc> so yea same size should definitely be fine then
[05:10] <jdong> Fujitsu: actually IMO it does
[05:10] <calc> i rarely use anywhere near 4GB without cache
[05:10] <jdong> Fujitsu: it makes the right-after-restore first 5 minutes of usage much less painful
[05:10] <Fujitsu> Hmmm, I guess.
[05:10] <jdong> Fujitsu: and often times that's the most important usecase
[05:10] <jdong> Fujitsu: when I hibernated I used to patch tuxonice just because it writes out the cache too
[05:11] <jdong> Fujitsu: on resume, boom the system is ready to go. With Ubuntu even the unlock screen dialog takes a bloody 10-20 seconds to appear properly
[05:11] <jdong> perhaps that's been improved since 2 releases ago
[05:13] <calc> i think windows must blow away cache too, since iirc it takes a long time to resume, heh
[05:14] <jdong> calc: some windows services (a lot) use the suspend hook to mean shutdown for some retarded reason
[05:14] <jdong> i.e. half the bootup services actually restart across a resume
[05:14] <calc> oh wow
[05:14] <calc> no wonder its slow
[05:14] <jdong> calc: yeah, it's amazing how stupid software vendors could be
[05:15] <jdong> calc: I've seen some demos of "proper" Windows XP boxes and those things go into suspend in 2 seconds and come out before you can get the lid back up
[05:15] <jdong> of course in the real world nobody makes ideal Windows boxes either
[05:16] <calc> or proper software to run on it
[05:16] <calc> a windows box with no 3rd party crap on it might be pretty decent ;)
[05:30] <Hobbsee> apparently do-release-upgrade doesn't like a ctrl+C
[05:46] <fabbione> kees: ping?
[05:47] <Hobbsee> and damn it, i'd appreciate if the machine i'm using to upgrade another one doesn't crash mid-upgrade!
[05:47] <fabbione> hmm i guess he is asleep now
[05:48] <Fujitsu> fabbione: I last saw him 70 minutes ago.
[05:49] <RAOF> Hobbsee: Screen is _fun_.
[05:49] <Hobbsee> RAOF: looks like it's in screen
[05:50] <RAOF> Hobbsee: Yay for crashes/disconnects not killing upgrades, then.
[05:50] <Hobbsee> hehe, indeed!
[05:50] <Hobbsee> RAOF: even more yay, though
[05:50] <Hobbsee> RAOF: [37%] 3387kB/s 21s
[05:51] <RAOF> Hobbsee: _Nice_.  Where's that mirror, so I can soak all its bandwidth up?
[05:52] <Hobbsee> RAOF: it's the us.archive.ubuntu.com mirror
[05:52] <Hobbsee> the machine itself is in california.
[05:52] <RAOF> Right.  I was going to ask whether you were home :)
[05:56] <Hobbsee> RAOF: heh
[06:00] <emgent> hello people
[06:10] <GBGames> I just learned that Ubuntu's implementation of gcc/g++ is using SSP. Would this prevent using -fno-stack-protector from working? My binary is showing a dependency on GLIBC_2.4
[06:11] <GBGames> I learned about this SSP thing when I discovered that my Debian system builds the binary without a GLIBC_2.4 dependency.
[06:14] <Fujitsu> GBGames: -fno-stack-protector is only useful if SSP is on..
[06:17] <GBGames> Fujitsu: How do I determine if it is?
[06:19] <slangasek> SSP has nothing to do with glibc symbol versions; do you have some reason to think that SSP is a problem for your binary?
[06:19] <Hobbsee> slangasek: are you aware that ubuntu-desktop is no longer isntallable?
[06:21] <GBGames> slangasek: No, I only know that between my Debian system and my Ubuntu system, the Debian gcc/g++ seems to obey me when I use -fno-stack-protector, but the Ubuntu gcc/g++ seems to ignore it and include GLIBC_2.4 dependencies in my project's binary.
[06:21] <GBGames> And in my searching, I found https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GccSsp
[06:21] <slangasek> Hobbsee: was just seeing that, yes
[06:22] <Hobbsee> slangasek: good, just checking
[06:22] <slangasek> GBGames: er, GLIBC_2.4 has *nothing* to do with SSP.  How have you determined that Ubuntu gcc is ignoring -fno-stack-protector?
[06:24] <slangasek> Hobbsee: ah, transient issue with update-manager arch: all/any package skew, AFAICS on amd64
[06:24] <GBGames> slangasek: When the same project using the same build scripts is building differently on the two systems, and I double-checked that my project didn't have some missing flags or anything, I figured that somehow Ubuntu's gcc/g++ is doing something strange. And sure enough, I find this page that explains that the implementation is different from Debian's.
[06:24] <Hobbsee> slangasek: i see it on i386.
[06:25] <slangasek> Hobbsee: what does apt-get say is the broken dependency on i386?
[06:25] <GBGames> If it isn't ssp, then it must be something else, but I am still stuck with not knowing why it won't build the way I expect it.
[06:26]  * Hobbsee looks
[06:26] <slangasek> GBGames: "building differently" how?  Just the GLIBC_2.4 references?
[06:26] <GBGames> slangasek: Yes.
[06:27] <slangasek> GBGames: that's not a bug, it's different because Debian and Ubuntu have different versions of glibc.
[06:28] <GBGames> So it isn't a bug that -fno-stack-protector isn't doing something about removing the stack protection?
[06:28] <slangasek> *GLIBC_2.4 has nothing to do with stack protection*.
[06:28] <GBGames> slangasek: the dependency on it does, yes.
[06:28] <Hobbsee> slangasek: yeah, might be archive skew.  seems my cache doesn't know about update-manager .23 yet
[06:28] <GBGames> $ objdump -x source/ld11-minimalist.bin  | grep GLIBC_2\.4
[06:28] <GBGames>     0x0d696914 0x00 10 GLIBC_2.4
[06:28] <GBGames> 00000000       F *UND*  00000046              __stack_chk_fail@@GLIBC_2.4
[06:29] <calc> slangasek: it appears he is claiming the GLIBC_2.4 references are about stack protection in particular
[06:29] <calc> at least if i understand what the two of you are talking about :)
[06:29] <GBGames> When I use -fno-stack-protector, it does not use stack checking, and since it doesn't need it, it doesn't depend on GLIBC_2.4.
[06:29] <GBGames> Except on Ubuntu, it seems.
[06:29] <slangasek> GBGames: right, you didn't mention that the symbol in question was __stack_chk_fail ... I can see where that might have something to do with stack protection, yes.
[06:30] <GBGames> heh
[06:30] <slangasek> Hobbsee: I think it's more than archive skew; in an i386 chroot, I see: Package update-manager is not available, but is referred to by another package.
[06:30] <slangasek> which isn't what it should show :/
[06:30] <calc> so having the GLIBC_2.4 in there at all isn't a bug but that it is about stack protection in particular is a probably a bug
[06:30] <Hobbsee> slangasek: looks to be a .24 upload in unapproved, too?
[06:30] <calc> doko will probably be awake in another hour or so
[06:31] <GBGames> calc: Well, as that is the only reason why glibc_2.4 is there, it is incidental that it shouldn't depend on 2.4, but yes, stack protection shouldn't be in there when I tell it not to use it.
[06:31] <Mithrandir> I don't think changing the toolchain at this point is particularly wise.
[06:31] <slangasek> Hobbsee: mm, I'll look at it shortly then; though the problem I'm seeing on i386 is definitely some sort of archive breakage
[06:32] <calc> doesn't he manage both debian and ubuntu toolchain (if so how did this bug only affect ubuntu)?
[06:32] <Hobbsee> slangasek: yes...
[06:32] <slangasek> because update-manager shouldn't have disappeared from the Packages file
[06:32] <slangasek> calc: if SSP isn't enabled in Debian, then that would fit
[06:32] <calc> Mithrandir: perhaps but it probably should be noted in release notes or somewhere else that stack protector can't be disabled
[06:32] <GBGames> calc: Ubuntu has differing implementations from Debian.
[06:32] <slangasek> (yes, he maintains both, but that doesn't mean they're identical by any means)
[06:32] <calc> slangasek: ah ok :)
[06:33] <ogra> *yawn*
[06:33] <dholbach> good morning
[06:33] <Fujitsu> Hey dholbach.
[06:33]  * ogra tickles dholbach
[06:34] <dholbach> hi ogra, hi Fujitsu
[06:34] <dholbach> how are you guys doing?
[06:34] <ogra> tired
[06:35] <Hobbsee> good morning
[06:35] <dholbach> hi Hobbsee
[06:35] <emgent> hi dholbach Hobbsee
[06:35] <dholbach> hi emgent
[06:35] <Fujitsu> I'm currently hacking some horrible old PHP at work, but other than that I'm not bad.
[06:36] <GBGames> slangasek: What's strange is that it builds my custom versions of libraries correctly. I just checked without -fno-stack-protector,  and all of the custom libs now have the symbol and 2.4 dependency.
[06:36] <emgent> php is always bad :)
[06:36] <Fujitsu> emgent: Yes, but this code is particularly bad.
[06:36] <emgent> good luck ;)
[06:36] <Fujitsu> It's not what I mainly work on, fortunately.
[06:40] <GBGames> slangasek: http://rafb.net/p/cpNa2S77.html If this helps. I'll paste my regular binaries build script, too.
[06:41] <GBGames> http://rafb.net/p/1OYEvr27.html <-- my project's build script
[06:41] <slangasek> GBGames: the comments at the top of that first one claim that if you use -fno-stack-protector, you don't get the reference to __stack_chk_fail ?
[06:42] <GBGames> slangasek: For the libraries I built, right.
[06:42] <slangasek> so the problem is when you build an executable?
[06:42] <GBGames> slangasek: Yes,  which leads me to believe it might be a problem with my build script, but still specifically when run on Ubuntu.
[06:43] <GBGames> Since it runs as expected on Debian.
[06:43] <calc> we do PIE by default on executables among other things, right?
[06:43] <slangasek> on what version of Debian?
[06:44] <GBGames> slangasek: Testing, although it isn't necessarily up to date, but it should be updated within the last month.
[06:45] <slangasek> ok - I was going to say, Debian etch shipped with glibc 2.3.6, so that would be its own explanation ;)
[06:59] <GBGames> slangasek: Oh, I bet I know what it is. Since I tell it to link statically with, and libgcc is likely built with stack protector on, the binary is going to have it included.
[07:00] <GBGames> Well, taking out the static link flag doesn't change anything, so maybe not.
[07:00] <GBGames> In any case, it looks like I'll need to dig down into this issue. Thanks for your help!
[07:00] <slangasek> sure, sorry I wasn't of more help really
[07:02] <calc> slangasek: do you happen to know if the save /home feature of the installer is working yet?
[07:02] <slangasek> don't know anything about that, sorry
[07:02] <calc> ok
[07:02] <calc> cjwatson: do you happen to know, i forgot the name of the feature
[07:03] <cjwatson> calc: ubiquity-preserve-home; should be, yes, just don't check the format checkbox for the partition whose /home you want to keep
[07:03] <cjwatson> (or for /home itself if that's the one you're selecting)
[07:03] <calc> cjwatson: ah ok
[07:03] <calc> cjwatson: and it knows to automatically delete everything else?
[07:03] <cjwatson> that's right
[07:03] <calc> cool :)
[07:04]  * calc will backup home to be safe and then test it out
[07:04] <cjwatson> (of course backups always a good idea, but ...)
[07:04] <cjwatson> snap
[07:05] <calc> btw is there anything special needed to format a ext3 fs to do the lazy atime thing, or just a mount option?
[07:05] <pitti> Good morning
[07:06] <Fujitsu> calc: Just mount with relatime.
[07:07] <pitti> what does that do anyway? writing relative atimes doesn't sound much more efficient than writing absolute ones?
[07:08] <slangasek> pitti: it reduces the number of disk writes by only writing out atimes when it "matters"
[07:08] <StevenK> Morning pitti
[07:08] <Fujitsu> ie. only the first after the mtime changes?
[07:08] <pitti> slangasek: ah, so it still writes absolute atime stamps, but less often
[07:09] <slangasek> documented in mount(8), fwiw
[07:09] <slangasek> (more clearly than I can explain :)
[07:11] <calc> Fujitsu: ok
[07:11] <calc> iirc i read ubuntu does that by default now
[07:11] <slangasek> it sets it by default in the installer
[07:12] <calc> ok
[07:12] <slangasek> I don't know what happens with mounts of removable media
[07:12] <calc> relatime is supposed to help with allowing drive to spin down more also (iirc)
[07:13] <slangasek> that's one of the effects, yes
[07:13] <calc> probably speeds up disk access a bit as well since it isn't always writing out data
[07:14] <pitti> lamont: hm, why does postfix debdonf-asks me about the configuration on every upgrade?
[07:14] <GBGames> slangasek: I just checked a different project. It builds fine. I guess something strange is happening with my current project, but I'm still not sure why it only manifests when I build on Ubuntu. In any case, I believe it is a project-specific issue.
[07:15] <slangasek> GBGames: ah, well, good luck then :)
[07:15] <slangasek> Hobbsee: fwiw, I've accepted update-manager from unapproved; with luck that will kick some sense into the archive, without luck we'll have to go bug-hunting in LP
[07:15] <Hobbsee> slangasek: indeed.
[07:16] <calc> slangasek: has a new gnome-app-install been uploaded lately?
[07:16]  * calc hopes we still get openoffice.org metapackage in gai before release
[07:16] <GBGames> The build scripts are almost the same. The other project uses an extra library, but otherwise it uses all of the same flags. I think I'll sleep on it. Thanks again!
[07:18]  * calc bbiab reinstalling laptop
[07:18] <slangasek> calc: none in the queue, no
[07:19] <pitti> calc, slangasek: yesterday I accepted some app-install-data-ubuntu which fixed OO.o desktop files
[07:34] <dholbach> for the teams that do team reports: it's team report collection time again!
[07:35] <Hobbsee> oh noes, team reports.
[07:35]  * Hobbsee instantly steps down from all teams she's a part of
[07:36] <Fujitsu> I should probably put more for mine than `NEED MOAR PEOPLE'
[07:36] <bigon> infinity: FYI openhackware has been synced
[07:36] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: hah
[07:39] <RAOF> Fujitsu: Need moar people _and_ ponies?
[07:40] <Fujitsu> RAOF: Magically security ponies.
[07:40] <Fujitsu> *Magical
[07:41] <slangasek> Hobbsee: seems to have already fixed itself on my mirror, without even getting the newer version in
[07:43] <Hobbsee> ooh, magic ponies...
[07:43] <slangasek> hmmmm
[07:43] <slangasek> actually, Packages.bz2 is correct, and Packages.gz is still wrong, on drescher
[07:44] <slangasek> well, let's see what the next publisher run brings
[07:45] <kees> security ponies would rock!  avenging security unicorn
[07:48] <emgent> kees, jdstrand: saw http://cansecwest.com/post/2008-03-20.21:33:00.CanSecWest_PWN2OWN_2008 ?
[07:49] <emgent> only ubuntu not owned in this contest.
[07:49] <Amaranth> emgent: of course that's only because the guy that exploited flash chose to do it on the vista laptop instead of the ubuntu laptop
[07:51] <emgent> i dont know if in ubuntu laptop there was flash
[07:51] <emgent> possible gnash ? :)
[07:52] <RAOF> No, Adobe.  Because gnash doesn't work the same :)
[07:52] <RAOF> Probably doesn't have the same security bugs, but doesn't implement swfv9, and is incomplete.  So a bit unfair.
[07:58] <jdong> emgent: ubuntu would've been just as vulnerable.
[07:58] <jdong> emgent: Vista actually had a better chance of fending off these attacks because the browser runs in a RBAC/MDAC jail
[07:58] <jdong> just Adobe for some retarded reason implemented a broker that could escape the jail.
[07:59] <jdong> oh I'm sorry. "Tunnel priviledged permissions through"
[07:59] <jdong> don't sue me Adobe.
[08:02] <emgent> hehe :)
[08:04] <jdong> call me crazy, but I run Firefox inside Apparmor
[08:04] <jdong> if anything is going to compromise me, it'd be my browser
[08:07] <Hobbsee> jdong: we already knew you were on crack.
[08:07] <Hobbsee> but i like that idea
[08:09] <emgent> jdong: +1
[08:09] <Mithrandir> why not inside a VM on a different host than the one you have your data on?
[08:10] <jdong> Mithrandir: because until Hardy's libvirt stuff I never really found a VM package I liked
[08:10] <jdong> oh wait, you're mocking my paranoia
[08:10] <jdong> :)
[08:10] <Mithrandir> no, I'm not
[08:11] <jdong> but that would be my serious answer
[08:11] <jdong> it's not a bad idea at all
[08:11] <Mithrandir> I'm just saying that if you really think your browser is that insecure, put it in a completely separate context.
[08:11] <Mithrandir> or just use a different machine for it.
[08:12] <jdong> indeed that's another option
[08:13] <Mithrandir> preferably on a separate physical network (or at least different VLAN or if you can't do that, firewalled off from the rest of your network).
[08:13] <jdong_> well that's what *this* box intends on being in the future :)
[08:14] <jdong> I don't distrust my browser that much. It's primarily libflashplugin I'm concerned about, nosing around... not to mention the number of extensions I'm using has got to be unhealthy
[08:14] <Mithrandir> don't have flash in your primary browser, then.
[08:14] <emgent> ...
[08:14] <jdong> I really shouldn't
[08:15]  * Mithrandir doesn't have flash in any of his browsers.
[08:15] <jdong> and I really should separate my sensitive browser profile from my regular surfing browser too
[08:40] <calc> pitti: cool :)
[09:08] <mantiena> hi all
[09:24] <GBGames> slangasek: I FIXED IT!
[09:25] <GBGames> slangasek: LIBS            :=  -static-libgcc -L. -L${LIB_INSTALL_DIR}/lib $(shell ${LIB_INSTALL_DIR}/bin/sdl-config --libs) -lSDL_image -lSDL_mixer #-L/usr/X11R6/lib -lX11
[09:25] <GBGames> See that "-L." ? I removed that. GLIBC_2.4 no more.
[09:26] <GBGames> What's strange is that it is in my other project, and that one builds just fine. Weird.
[09:27] <GBGames> But it is now 3:30AM, and I need to go to sleep.
[09:31] <tkamppeter> Anyone from the MOTU release team around?
[09:34] <Hobbsee> tkamppeter: nope
[09:35] <Hobbsee> we're all dead.
[09:35] <tkamppeter> Anyone from the MOTU release team around?
[09:35] <Hobbsee> tkamppeter: context would help, though.
[09:35] <tkamppeter> Hobbsee, I need a freeze exception for multiverse, bug 219509
[09:35] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 219509 in brother-cups-wrapper-laser1 "printing Din A4 format not working" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/219509
[09:35] <Amaranth> hahaha
[09:39] <mjg59> ScottK: I haven't uploaded anything to Ubuntu since February
[09:52] <mdz> soren: what's the latest thinking re: bug 217815?
[09:52] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 217815 in linux "Installation stalls randomly until a key is pressed" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/217815
[09:59] <ogra> mdz, i had probs before with clocksource stuff (cmpc related though), it usually helps to drop tickless as well if experimenting with them by setting nohz=off
[10:01] <soren> mdz: Well, I'm still in the rather odd situation that I'm having difficulty reproducing it.
[10:02] <soren> mdz: So I'm relying on other people to provide me with testing results.
[10:02] <tjaalton> any RM available?
[10:02] <soren> mdz: If it turns out that notsc makes a significant difference, slangasek thought we might be able to squeeze the kernel patch through.
[10:02] <mdz> soren: there's at least one report of it persisting with totsc
[10:03] <mdz> soren: oh, but that's from the person on real hardware
[10:03] <soren> mdz: Yeah. My gut feeling is still that it's the same problem, though.
[10:03] <soren> mdz: kvm might just trigger it more often.
[10:19] <seb128> hum, the hwtest update breaks the string freeze and translations for no good reason
[10:21] <ogra> seb128, afaik cr3 was pointed to the docteam to ask for permission first by steve
[10:22] <seb128> ogra: that was for the summary yes
[10:22] <ogra> oh, there is more ?
[10:22] <seb128> but "   * Fixed tooltip to be HIG compliant." seems not something worth breaking translations
[10:23] <ogra> could be themeing as well
[10:23] <ogra> i didnt look at the code :)
[10:31] <norsetto> can an archive-admin pls. give back foptions?
[10:32] <pitti> norsetto: archive admins can't, buildd admins can; given back
[10:32] <norsetto> pitti: ah ok! thanks
[10:32] <Fujitsu> It might not just be buildd-admins soon, which will be good.
[10:33]  * norsetto checks the buildd-admins list for future victims ...
[10:43] <geser> Fujitsu: who else will be given the right for give-backs?
[10:44] <Mithrandir> whoever can upload a package wouldn't be entirely unnatural
[10:44] <Fujitsu> geser: There was a suggestion that component uploaders would have rights over builds for their own component.
[10:44] <Fujitsu> Suggestion from a Soyuz dev, that is.
[10:44] <geser> sounds really interesting
[10:46] <Mithrandir> since you can worst case just upload the same thing again with a bumped version which is like a give-back, except it takes more time and resources.
[10:47] <Fujitsu> That was the rationale.
[10:52] <bisho> Hi. I would like to ask for a stable release update for bug 174805
[10:52] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 174805 in apache2 "[gutsy] graceful-stop fails when apache listens on more than one socket" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174805
[10:52] <mok0> Mithrandir: I'd like to request a rebuild of  fnonlinear, fregression and funitroots
[10:52] <bisho> I'm having a lot of problems on a high traffic production web server because of this bug
[10:52] <pitti> mok0: kicked
[10:53] <pitti> Mithrandir: ^
[10:53] <mok0> pitti: thanks
[10:53] <Mithrandir> pitti: cheers
[11:03] <Silicium> wie heist das inittab equal unter Ubuntu?
[11:03] <Nafallo> !de
[11:03] <ubotu> Deutschsprachige Hilfe fuer Probleme mit Ubuntu, Kubuntu und Edubuntu finden Sie in den Kanaelen #ubuntu-de, #kubuntu-de, #xubuntu-de und #edubuntu-de
[11:03] <Silicium> ups
[11:03] <Silicium> sorry wrong channel
[11:03] <Keybuk> WARNING: The following packages cannot be authenticated!
[11:03] <Keybuk>   sloccount
[11:03] <Keybuk> MVO!!!!!!
[11:03] <Silicium> irssi failure :S
[11:04] <Silicium> pitti: das andere is im uebrigen kein bug
[11:04] <Silicium> pitti: das procsys is gemounted
[11:05] <Silicium> das problem was ausschliesslich die locales
[11:05] <pitti> Silicium: you really want to send me /queries :)
[11:05] <Silicium> pitti: that was all i want to say :)
[11:05] <pitti> Silicium: ah, good to know; so I can stop worrying about the /proc issue; thanks!
[11:05] <ln-> isn't it supposed to be "heißt/heisst" with two 's', or is it some new thing to write it with one?
[11:06] <cjwatson> Fujitsu: I'm not convinced, too many people tend to bang on retry
[11:06] <mvo> Keybuk: URGH :(
[11:06] <Keybuk> mvo: it seems to do that a lot more for me now
[11:06] <Keybuk> nearly always the first time I use it
[11:06] <mvo> Keybuk: oh? since you went to hardy?
[11:06] <Keybuk> yeah
[11:06] <mvo> it was supposed to make things better :/
[11:06] <Fujitsu> cjwatson: We should be able to trust MOTU to not do stupid things.
[11:06] <Fujitsu> cjwatson: And people can upload build1 anyway.
[11:07] <Fujitsu> If people do bang on retry when they shouldn't, educate them. With something nice and spiky.
[11:07] <mvo> Keybuk: if it happens a lot for you, could I sent you some debug stuff that you could add? does it give you start after the nightly apt-get update cron job? is that machine behind a proxy ?
[11:08] <Keybuk> it does often do it after an apt-get cron run, yes
[11:08] <Keybuk> it's a laptop, rarely behind a proxy, often disconnected
[11:08] <pitti> ln-: yes, you are right
[11:08] <mvo> ok
[11:10] <ogra> ln-, if you often use non german keyboards you start to type like that :)
[11:11] <mvo> Keybuk: I look into it after lunch, ok?
[11:11] <Keybuk> ok
[11:11] <cjwatson> Fujitsu: retrying builds chews up a lot of resources without much in the way of logs, and evidence shows that people don't check properly before requesting give-backs
[11:11] <cjwatson> Fujitsu: I do think access should be wider than it is right now, but I'm not convinced about "all uploaders" as the right model
[11:12] <Fujitsu> cjwatson: Shall I request that we restrict uploaders to a subset of the ... uploaders, then?
[11:13] <Fujitsu> Uploading does everything a giveback does, other than erasing the old build logs (which is surely a bug anyway), and is doable by all.
[11:13] <pitti> Fujitsu: well, it leaves more traces, and takes more effort, so people might be more inclined to try three pointless give-backs in a row
[11:14] <pitti> but if that's really going to become a problem, we can always restrict it again
[11:14] <pitti> access will be controlled with an LP team, so that's easy to adjust
[11:14] <Fujitsu> I thought the intention was to do away with the idea of new celebrities. But I may have interpreted Julian incorrectly.
[11:15] <munckfish> cjwatson: got a sec to discuss PS3?
[11:15] <pitti> Fujitsu: I don't know the details either
[11:17] <Fujitsu> It'd be nice if the specs were public, or at least the user-visible aspects of them...
[11:19] <munckfish> Hi folks is there anything specific that needs to be done to *not* release a CD for a particular architecture/port?
[11:20] <Fujitsu> cjwatson: Restricting givebacks seems to be a very strange workaround to the issue of not having logs. Introducing logging is surely a much better idea, if it is that necessary.
[11:22] <YokoZar> will apt-url do an apt-get update before installing a package?
[11:22] <munckfish> Ok sorry to make noise, I think I should redirect my question to #ubuntu-release
[11:26] <cjwatson> Fujitsu: it's not *lack* of logs, it's just that buildd retries are not subject to freezes (and I don't think they should be) and it's possible to seriously tie up buildds during freezes if you're incautious. I really do think it should be a little more restricted.
[11:26] <cjwatson> munckfish: yep
[11:26] <munckfish> cjwatson: hi
[11:26] <munckfish> sorry I'm being noisy here today
[11:26] <munckfish> I moved my real question to ubuntu-release
[11:27] <munckfish> I don't know if you've been following
[11:27] <munckfish> along but there are loads of bugs for hardy/ps3
[11:27] <cjwatson> I saw, yeah
[11:27] <munckfish> I think we should target 8.04.1
[11:27] <YokoZar> cjwatson: does PPA usage tie up the buildds?
[11:27] <Fujitsu> cjwatson: Hmm, good point.
[11:27] <cjwatson> you only need to worry about the release-critical ones, not just random bugs; the X thing is still serious though
[11:27] <cjwatson> YokoZar: at the moment they're on different buildds
[11:28] <cjwatson> Fujitsu: (I'm also talking with Julian a bit; I do think some of MOTU should be able to give things back)
[11:28] <Fujitsu> I think we should be able to trust people to be sane, but who knows if we actually can...
[11:29] <cjwatson> Fujitsu: so far, empirically, give-back requests often haven't been :(
[11:29] <Fujitsu> During normal development, it makes approximately no sense to restrict it. But freezes are another matter, you are definitely right.
[11:29] <elmo> is there a record of who gave a package back?
[11:30] <elmo> from how I understand give backs, there probably isn't
[11:30] <elmo> if not, that's something to take into consideration
[11:30] <Fujitsu> IMO the current give-back mechanism is flawed, in that it erases all traces of the previous build.
[11:31] <elmo> I agree
[11:31] <elmo> and, err, sorry I just read scrollback, which I should have done first
[11:33] <Lamego> my fonts on firefox fonts on hardy are horrible compared to gutsy, where should I start looking at ?
[11:33] <Fujitsu> Perhaps a better definition of 'horrible' would be more useful.
[11:34] <Lamego> let me upload some screenshots
[11:34] <Lamego> horrible as hard to read, pixels to close to each other and less space between letters
[11:35] <Lamego> erm. unable to resolve imageshack.us
[11:37] <Fujitsu> If Soyuz opens up give-backs in 1.2.[45] and there are problems with abuse, it has at least 4 months before release crunch to have additional restrictions applied. I'm sure it can be managed in that time.
[11:39] <Lamego> http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ubuntu710tf7.png <- Ubuntu 7.10 -> Looks good
[11:40] <Lamego> http://img59.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ubuntu804xn5.png <- Ubuntu 8.04 - Looks bad
[11:40] <Lamego> both using the live cd, max res, LCD 1680x1050
[11:40] <Fujitsu> My insanity sensor censored those images.
[11:41] <Lamego> insanity sensor :P ?
[11:41] <Fujitsu> GetDeb fell afoul of it.
[11:43] <Lamego> grumpf
[11:43] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: should != do.
[11:44] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Right, hence the 'should.'
[11:44] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i would'nt bet on it.  this is launchpad, with the required 6 months for any change.
[11:44] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: particularly in the area of soyuz
[11:44] <Hobbsee> with all due respect, of course.
[11:45] <Hobbsee> there's just no way that it's likely to happen
[11:45] <Fujitsu> It's not a big change, so I'm sure it could be done quickly.
[11:45] <Lamego> for which package should I create the bug record ?
[11:46] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i have bugs for adding checkboxes still outstanding.  Dude, think again.
[11:46] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: 1.2.4 will finally fix a buggy page forward, which was reported partway through gutsy development.
[11:47] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: you can't assume things like that - i've learned.
[11:48] <Fujitsu> I have at least some faith in the capability of the Soyuz team to fix important bugs in a fairly timely fashion.
[11:48] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: depends how you define important.
[11:49] <Hobbsee> but yes, they do fix the omgtsif bugs reasonably quickly.
[11:57] <ogra> seb128, bug 220564 for you for 8.04.1 :)
[11:57] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 220564 in nautilus "regression: unmount options in nautilus are shown on LTSP" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220564
[11:57] <ogra> (patch attached)
[12:10] <seb128> ogra: ok, thanks
[12:13] <lamont> pitti: not sure
[12:13] <lamont> (postfix debconf)
[12:14] <YokoZar> Is there a list of the packages that will be on the DVD somewhere?
[12:21] <pitti> YokoZar: easiest is to look on cdimage into the dvd/ directories; they should have .manifest and .list
[12:23] <YokoZar> pitti: ACK!  Wine isn't listed!
[12:23] <Fujitsu> Wine isn't in main.
[12:23] <YokoZar> Well, no universe packages are, heh
[12:23] <Fujitsu> Fortunately.
[12:24] <YokoZar> I thought there was room on the DVDs to stuff popular universe packages in
[12:24] <pitti> YokoZar: no, nowadays it doesn't even have all of main
[12:25] <pitti> seb128: hm, no nautilus-wallpaper in unapproved
[12:25] <Fujitsu> pitti: Why not? Nowadays main should easily fit, with no Xubuntu...
[12:25] <pitti> hm, it's just 3.7 GB nowadays, so we could extend it a little indeed
[12:26] <YokoZar> My main use case here is answering the regular emails I get from people asking how to install Wine without an internet connection.  I can't just point them to a deb file, since that doesn't install Wine's dependencies
[12:26] <Fujitsu> Is that all of main?
[12:26] <seb128> pitti: weird, I got a "Waiting for approval: nautilus-wallpaper 0.1-0ubuntu3 (source)" mail
[12:26] <pitti> Fujitsu: no, we exclude some bits
[12:27] <pitti> seb128: ah, someone apparenlty fixed it already
[12:27] <YokoZar> By the way, according to popcon, about 1/3 of all our users have Wine installed ;)
[12:27] <laga> superm1: grr, i didn't notice you already applied cjwatson's patch :)
[12:28] <cjwatson> laga: I needed it fairly quickly in order to get cdimage changes done :)
[12:28] <pitti> seb128: indeed, there we go
[12:28] <cjwatson> YokoZar: for 8.10, I suspect wine should be in main, given the large usage base
[12:28] <laga> cjwatson: sure, no problem.
[12:28] <laga> cjwatson: any idea why there is no daily iso for today?
[12:28] <cjwatson> laga: cronjobs disabled for release prep
[12:29] <cjwatson> I'm sure it'll get built manually
[12:29] <YokoZar> cjwatson: Wine 1.0 is coming out in 8.10 timeframe as well
[12:29] <laga> too bad, i dashed home from uni to test it. i'll try again tonight
[12:29] <cjwatson> certainly anything we're prepared to ship on the DVD we also need to be prepared to support as part of main
[12:29] <cjwatson> goes with the territory
[12:29] <YokoZar> ﻿Is it too late for Hardy to just fill out the extra space on the DVDs with the most popular on popcon?
[12:29] <cjwatson> yes
[12:30] <YokoZar> Is everything in Main on the DVD at least?
[12:30] <cjwatson> no
[12:30] <cjwatson> (as pitti said)
[12:30] <cjwatson> all of main doesn't fit on a DVD
[12:30] <cjwatson> not even all of Ubuntu supported fits on a DVD, not by some distance
[12:30] <YokoZar> So what's the 3.7 gigabytes?
[12:31] <pitti> YokoZar: that's ubuntu + ubuntu supported
[12:31] <pitti> YokoZar: e. g. there is a separate Kubuntu DVD
[12:31] <pitti> we cannot even merge those
[12:31] <cjwatson> the 3.7 gigabytes is everything up to the dvd seed
[12:31] <cjwatson> *not* supported
[12:31] <cjwatson> it's sa subset
[12:31] <cjwatson> s/sa/a/
[12:31] <Hobbsee> argh, i knew i didn't want to install ubuntu-desktop again
[12:31] <YokoZar> Ahh ok.
[12:32] <cjwatson> we used to put all of supported on the DVD, but it got far too painful
[12:32] <cjwatson> we had to have all kinds of strange exclusions from supportedd
[12:32] <Hobbsee> mvo: how can i install a package without installing it's recommends?
[12:33]  * Mithrandir steals Hobbsee's '
[12:33] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: oy!
[12:33]  * Hobbsee stomps on Mithrandir's feet, with her steel boots.
[12:33] <cjwatson> --no-install-recomends
[12:33] <cjwatson> er, --no-install-recommends
[12:34] <cjwatson> or -o APT::Install-Recommends=false (synonymous)
[12:34]  * Hobbsee doesn't seem to have that switch
[12:34] <YokoZar> Speaking of ubuntu-desktop, synaptic should probably warn you when you remove it and update manager should check for it.  I had a user want to replace Evolution with Thunderbird and not realize this would totally break things when he upgraded to Hardy.
[12:35] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: neither work for me :(
[12:35] <cjwatson> the installer uses the latter
[12:35] <james_w> Hobbsee: "-R" with aptitude should work
[12:35] <cjwatson>         in-target sh -c "$config debconf-apt-progress --from $min --to $max --logstderr -- apt-get -o APT::Install-Recommends=false -q -y install 'language-pack-$lp'" || ret=$?
[12:35] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: so sudo apt-get -o APT::Install-Recommends=false install ubuntu-desktop  should work?
[12:35] <cjwatson> yeah
[12:36] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: it certainly doesn't :-S
[12:36] <mvo> YokoZar: right - update-manager (in release-upgrade mode at least) will make sure that ubuntu-desktop (or kubuntu-desktop etc) is installed on upgrade
[12:36] <Hobbsee> james_w: no dice either.  :(
[12:36] <mvo> YokoZar: so that should be taken care of :)
[12:38]  * Hobbsee wonders why that spews lots of empty console output, too
[12:38] <cjwatson> kernel bug
[12:38] <Hobbsee> ah
[12:38] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: hmm, isn't working for me either with kubuntu-desktop
[12:38] <cjwatson> mvo: halp
[12:39] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: good, so i'm not going mad.
[12:39] <Hobbsee> well, not in this instance, anyway
[12:47] <mvo> Hobbsee: give me a sec, I check the exact synatx
[12:51] <hubuntu> is there a failure with booting in some configurations? The ISO from sunday is not booting (neither server or desktop editions)
[12:51] <hubuntu> it stops at the menu, the only option that works is "Boot from first harddisk"
[12:53] <cjwatson> hubuntu: what happens when you select the others?
[12:54] <hubuntu> you can go around and make difgferent selections
[12:54] <hubuntu> change language and stuff
[12:54] <hubuntu> but nothing loads
[12:54] <cjwatson> hubuntu: today's image is booting fine for me, FWIW
[12:54] <hubuntu> nothing happens, not even the test
[12:54] <hubuntu> I'm downloading that one now
[12:54] <cjwatson> hubuntu: does it return keyboard control to you, or does it completely lock the system? Do you see anything interesting on the screen?
[12:55] <hubuntu> cjwatson;: but I just got scared, because mine is booting in 3 computers but a friend (Invitado) is having the problem
[12:55] <cjwatson> does it blank the screen, or leave the menu displayed?
[12:55] <hubuntu> well, palichis
[12:55] <hubuntu> :)
[12:56] <hubuntu> leave the menu displayed
[12:56] <hubuntu> nothing morethe CD seesm to start, but nothing else happens
[12:57] <mvo> Hobbsee: hrm, the -o does not allow overwriting existing lists, you will have to move aside /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/01ubuntu to get rid of apt::install-recommends-sections - please report this as a bug (I fix it right after the release)
[12:57] <hubuntu> and you can still change options from the menu
[12:57] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: is that going to affect your installer?
[12:58] <hubuntu> reaklly weird, and 2 computers give the same error with server AND desktop ISOs
[12:59] <hubuntu> one laptop and one desktop.. let's hope its just the image.. kep you updated
[12:59] <hubuntu> keep
[13:01] <ScottK> mjg59: Thanks.  Odd.  I'll poke at it some more then.  I thought it had been uploaded with your key.
[13:04] <mjg59> ScottK: If it is, I'd be worried
[13:04] <ScottK> I'll go look at it again.
[13:05] <mjg59> ScottK: I'm not a member of ubuntu-dev or ubuntu-core-dev...
[13:05] <ScottK> Even better.
[13:07] <ScottK> mjg59: Apparently my cut an paste skills for the Ubuntu keyserver are very miserable.  Sorry for the disturbance.
[13:09] <Hobbsee> ScottK: it's from a ppa, and has taken over a main package.  duh.
[13:10] <ScottK> Heh.  Not this time.  I still not sure how I messed it up last night.
[14:03] <slytherin> cjwatson: Any update on the 'OOo on ppc CD'? I am sure you are pretty busy at the moment, so in case you need any help let me know. I will try my best. :-)
[14:06] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: well, in theory, but we wanted it to install recommends anyway
[14:07] <cjwatson> 12:52 <cjwatson> any opinions on bug 164491? I've done the sums and it will fit, but I've missed my slot for updating ubuntu-meta
[14:07] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 164491 in ubuntu-meta "[ppc] openoffice.org not present on alternate CD" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164491
[14:07] <cjwatson> 12:52 <cjwatson> perhaps it doesn't matter as simply updating the seeds will cause the tasks to be updated?
[14:07] <cjwatson> slytherin: ^- from #ubuntu-release earlier today
[14:08] <cjwatson> slytherin: I've committed the desktop seed change now, so the next ports CDs should have it, but I can't update ubuntu-meta now; shout if they don't behave properly on installation
[14:09] <slytherin> cjwatson: Ok. I won't be trying installation. But I think I will dist-upgrade with --ignore-missing --no-download option to check if all the necessary packages are present.
[14:11] <cjwatson> slytherin: dist-upgrade won't do it
[14:11] <cjwatson> you'll need to apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^
[14:11] <cjwatson> (note ^)
[14:11] <cjwatson> and even that only after the next publisher run
[14:12] <mvo> Keybuk: I can reproduce the problem in apt now I think, I'm looking into it now
[14:12] <Keybuk> mvo: do you know what it is?
[14:12] <mvo> not yet, but definitely triggerable without network
[14:13] <slytherin> cjwatson: Ok fine. I assume next publisher run will be sometime tomorrow. I will report back. Thanks.
[14:15] <slytherin> mvo: Which bug are you talking about?
[14:19] <mvo> slytherin: authentication warnings when the nightly apt-get update cron job got run
[14:20] <slytherin> mvo: ahh, as per my observation when there is no network, *Release.gpg files get deleted.
[14:24] <ScottK> pitti: Do you have an opinion on Bug #205179 - How siginficant is postgis support for pg 8.3?
[14:24] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 205179 in postgis "postgresql-8.3-postgis not included in Hardy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/205179
[14:43] <slytherin> if I have attached a debdiff to a bug related to dependencies and the package is in main, which team should I subscribe to the bug. ubuntu-main-sponsors or ubuntu-release?
[14:44] <ScottK> What package?
[14:44] <slytherin> ScottK: ant
[14:45] <ScottK> I'd suggest u-m-s and they can ask ubuntu release if they think it's appropriate.
[14:46] <slytherin> ScottK: Ok. I have already subscribed u-m-s, I will wait.
[14:48] <dholbach> is hardy-alternate-amd64 20080422 OK to test or is there a new one to come?
[14:56] <mvo> slytherin, Keybuk: I uploaded a fix into my PPA ("deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/mvo/ubuntu hardy main") and do another one for hardy (or hardy-proposed) now
[14:58] <slytherin> mvo: I will check it after another hour and report back.
[14:59] <mvo> slytherin: thanks
[14:59] <Arby> mvo: what's the bug, I have some time for testing.
[15:00] <slytherin> Arby: just read few line above. :-)
[15:01] <mvo> Arby: bugfix apt from my PPA, some background is above
[15:01] <Arby> the authentication warnings?
[15:01] <mvo> yes
[15:01] <Arby> is this just on a gutsy->hardy upgrade
[15:02] <Arby> I can give that a spin
[15:02]  * Arby pokes a VM into life
[15:02] <slytherin> Arby: no, even simple upgrade. I think the bug is there from gutsy
[15:03] <Arby> oh ok
[15:03] <Arby> nothing special to trigger it?
[15:04] <mvo> Arby: just unplug the network
[15:04] <Arby> ok
[15:05] <mvo> Arby: use hardy for testing please, the update is against hardy
[15:05] <Arby> mvo: sure
[15:05] <mvo> thanks :)
[15:13] <pitti> ScottK: hm, haven't used it myself yet; I just know a few people who do
[15:14] <pitti> ScottK: weird, I thought we synced postgis 8.3 ages ago, but apparently I mixed that up with another pg extension
[15:14] <ScottK> pitti: I'd be inclined to sync it and hope for the best.  Thoughts?
[15:16] <pitti> ScottK: debian bug 441797 sounds a bit bad, but we already have the affected version; other bugs look fine
[15:16] <ubotu> Debian bug 441797 in postgresql-8.2-postgis "postgresql-8.2-postgis: upgrade to 1.3.1 make old databases unusable" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/441797
[15:16] <pitti> ScottK: so yes, I'm fine with syncing
[15:16] <ScottK> Thanks.
[15:16] <pitti> ScottK: let me build it locally first and check whether it at least loads
[15:17] <ScottK> OK.  Thanks.
[15:21] <jeisenberg> hi there, I work for xcalibre - company behind Flexiscale.com.  We'd like to donate some virtual servers for Ubuntu dev work
[15:21] <jeisenberg> who do I speak to?
[15:21] <jeisenberg> well, chat to, I guess....
[15:22] <jeisenberg> ah... ubuntu wiki says mdz: are you about?
[15:25] <ScottK> If your interested in supporting community development work (not Canonical) there is also http://www.ubuntuwire.com/ that can always use additional resources.
[15:26]  * jeisenberg is looking at linkz
[15:42] <norsetto> we have ftbfs on hppa (lme4) and hppa, ia64 and sparc (tseries) that can be solved by giving back. Is it worth your time buildd-admins?
[15:45] <pitti> ScottK: bug 205179 updated
[15:45] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 205179 in postgis "postgresql-8.3-postgis not included in Hardy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/205179
[15:45] <ScottK> Thanks.
[15:46] <pitti> ScottK: I have the sync under my fingers now, just give the word
[15:46] <ScottK> I need a 2nd ask.  Just asked.
[15:46] <pitti> ah
[15:49] <ScottK> pitti: Go for it.
[15:51]  * pitti cranks, thanks
[16:19] <kees> emgent, Amaranth, jdong_: re flash exploit on Ubuntu> while Mark Dowd is a genius, I think he might have had trouble with exploiting it under Linux.  From what I saw in his write-up, it sounds like ASLR would have applied a bit more under linux.  It's really not clear, though.
[16:19] <kees> jdong_: and I hear ya about ff in AppArmor.  :P
[16:34] <megabyte405> There.  All concerns with the AbiWord package have been addressed, hopefully that will do the trick now :)
[16:44] <sistpoty|work> any archive-admin, jplease remove brother-cups-wrapper-laser1 from unapproved.. no release ack given yet, and the current package is undistributable (debian/copyright is wrong)
[16:45] <sistpoty|work> meh, wrong channel
[16:46] <sistpoty|work> tkamppeter: debian/copyright contains boiler template of lgpl, package is gpl, please fix this as well
[16:46]  * Hobbsee waits for LP
[16:47] <Hobbsee> sistpoty|work: rejected
[16:47] <sistpoty|work> thanks Hobbsee
[16:47] <Hobbsee> y/w
[16:50] <tkamppeter> sistpoty, sorry did not see this, I have only looked at the minimum change to get the two buggs fixed and have assumed that all the rest is OK due to being in the repos for several weeks now.
[16:51] <dholbach> hum.... somehow my 20080422-amd64-alternate oem-installation (in kvm) hangs - can somebody reproduce that?
[16:51] <dholbach> evand, cjwatson: anything you need to help debug it?
[16:51] <cjwatson> dholbach: at what stage?
[16:51] <dholbach> cjwatson: installing packages
[16:51] <cjwatson> dholbach: just at a progress bar?
[16:52] <cjwatson> dholbach: press a key or move the mouse in the guest; that should shift it. This is a known (release-critical) kvm bug that soren is working on
[16:52] <sistpoty|work> tkamppeter: also this sed in debian/rules and then executing the result... it feels a little bit like playing russion roulette. as far as I've seen, the scripts come with start/end markers for the ppds... maybe that might be a safer solution?
[16:52] <dholbach> cjwatson: the progress bar thingie says "python-gst0.10 installiert" and the log says "Richte ca-certificates ein (2007...."
[16:54] <dholbach> cjwatson: it shifted in the ISOs from a few days ago (I witnessed the problem too) but now it seems not to do that
[16:55] <tkamppeter> sistpoty|work, the copyright file does not say anything about the LGPL, it does only say "this library" instead of "this software". Should I correct that?
[16:55] <dholbach> cjwatson: I activated a console, typed stuff in there, typed random stuff everywhere but it just keeps sitting there
[16:55] <dholbach> cjwatson: do you think I should talk to soren about it?
[16:56] <sistpoty|work> tkamppeter: yes please... ideally it should be a verbatim copy of one of the notes in the upstream files
[16:57] <tkamppeter> sistpoty|work, the sed calls do all replace shell commands like "rm -f /usr/", in the PPDs are no such expressions. The replacement to be done in the PPD fragment I apply only to lines beginning with an asterisk, as in a shell script lines do not begin with an asterisk.
[16:58] <cjwatson> dholbach: ok, that sounds different. what's at the end of tty4, and what processes are running?
[16:59] <dholbach> Apr 22 15:53:02 in-target: RICHTE CA-CERTIFICATES EIN (20070303-0UBUNTU3) ...^M
[16:59] <cjwatson> (caps> apt bug)
[17:00] <dholbach> dpkg --status-fs 14 --configure libntfs-3g23...
[17:01] <dholbach> cjwatson: "dpkg --status-fs 14 --configure libntfs-3g23..." is the last one it started, it seems
[17:01] <cjwatson> is ldconfig running?
[17:01] <cjwatson> ("--status-fd", I'd have thought)
[17:02] <dholbach> no
[17:02] <dholbach> cjwatson: yes, --status-fs (sorry, wasn't copying and pasting)
[17:02] <cjwatson> can you 'anna-install strace-udeb', strace that process, and find out what it's doing?
[17:02] <cjwatson> there's almost nothing in that postinst ...
[17:04] <dholbach> cjwatson: attach: ptrace(PTRACE_ATTACH, ...): No such process          - weird - I made sure it's the right pid
[17:05] <tkamppeter> sistpoty|work, the license text in the upstream sources says "program" instead of "library". So I will take this one. Only other difference is the postal address of the FSF. Should I take the one from the original files (Temple Place) or the one of Saïvann's version (Franklin Street)?
[17:06] <sistpoty|work> tkamppeter: well, the franklin street is newer, but I'd usually go with a verbatim copy. none is wrong
[17:07] <sistpoty|work> tkamppeter: from looking at a few scripts, the sed commands seem indeed have caught all shell commands
[17:07] <_MMA_> seb128: What controls how a wallpaper is displayed? Nautilus? I need to file a bug.
[17:07]  * persia recommends using the current address of the FSF to allow those on desert islands with postal services to receive the complete copy of the license
[17:08] <seb128> _MMA_: depends if you use nautilus or not, nautilus or gnome-control-center
[17:08] <seb128> _MMA_: what is the issue?
[17:09] <sistpoty|work> tkamppeter: FFe ack'd (please also note, that there are still other issues, e.g. the package fails to build twice in a row, but I don't think that's worthy to fix for hardy)
[17:09] <ScottK> pitti: Do you have any opinions about dbconfig-common, Bug 216106 in particular?
[17:09] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 216106 in dbconfig-common "Please sync dbconfig-common 1.8.38 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/216106
[17:09] <pitti> ScottK: TBH: no, I don't
[17:09] <ScottK> OK.  Thanks.
[17:09] <pitti> ScottK: I hardly ever touched that package
[17:10] <ScottK> OK.  I think database and I think about you ...
[17:10] <dholbach> cjwatson: I'll try it again later - I need to rush out for a bit now
[17:11] <tkamppeter> sistpoty|work, I will upload it with the corrected debian/copyright now, the problem of not building twice in a row I also observed, but I ignored it to keep the debdiff small.
[17:11] <sistpoty|work> tkamppeter: yes, as I wrote... not for hardy ;)
[17:11] <_MMA_> seb128: When using a widescreen composed wallpaper on a 4:3 aspect screen, setting the Style to "Zoom" would crop the left/right sides while retaining the aspect. Now, it moves the image to the left and crop it all of the right. This is bad since Studio's walls and the Heron have been composed in such a way that cropping both sides is expected.
[17:12] <_MMA_> *﻿crops it all off the right.
[17:13] <seb128> _MMA_: is that bug #197357?
[17:13] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 197357 in gnome-control-center "background zoom should be centered" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/197357
[17:13] <_MMA_> Ahh...
[17:13] <_MMA_> "Low" Great. Oh well.
[17:14] <seb128> _MMA_: we didn't get many bugs about the issue and it's only cosmetic, and to be honest I didn't manage to see the bug, I need to find a wallpaper adapted and do testing
[17:15] <tkamppeter> sistpoty|work, I have reuploaded the package now.
[17:15] <sistpoty|work> tkamppeter: thanks
[17:15] <_MMA_> seb128: The Heron wall is wide. Using it on a 4:3 screen should show you.
[17:16] <seb128> _MMA_: need to find a 4:3 screen then
[17:16] <soren> dholbach: How much memory did... Oh, he buggered off.
[17:16] <seb128> let me try xnest
[17:17] <ion_> seb128: To test it, create e.g. a 1000x100 image in gimp, fill it with lorem ipsum or whatever, set it as the wallpaper in zoom mode. If it works, you should see the middle part of it on any screen.
[17:17] <_MMA_> seb128: haha. I had to do the same here. :P Dig for a 4:3 screen.
[17:18] <megabyte405> or resize a vm?
[17:20] <seb128> ok, confirmed
[17:22] <_MMA_> k
[17:24] <nxvl> heno: hi!
[17:25] <nxvl> heno: why is iso.qa closed?
[17:25]  * heno looks
[17:26] <heno> nxvl: you mean that is has no images for testing ATM?
[17:26] <nxvl> heno: yep
[17:26] <heno> we are waiting for new images that will be final candidates
[17:26] <nxvl> heno: and it says "We are not testing at the moment" and that we are testing PRE RC images
[17:26] <heno> we just flushed the results from RC testing
[17:26] <nxvl> oh ok
[17:27] <nxvl> so we are going to have the final images later today or tomorrow?
[17:27] <heno> nxvl: I'll update the notice, thanks
[17:27] <heno> nxvl: hopefully today - please join #ubuntu-testing to help with testing :)
[17:29] <thesaltydog> is there a different behaviour of fdisk in 2.6.24?
[17:33] <slangasek> soren: kernel patch> sorry, that would've needed to converge sooner to make it into 8.04; I fear we're in release notes territory now for anything requiring kernel changes
[17:34] <soren> slangasek: Oh, it's entirely in userspace now.
[17:34] <soren> slangasek: WEll, it's been so all along, but now we know it. :)
[17:36] <slangasek> heh
[17:36] <laga> cdimage.u.c is syncy today
[17:38] <slangasek> soren: so in that case, we probably want to get the kvm fix uploaded ASAP so we can respin ubuntu-server only?
[17:39] <soren> slangasek: Er... Yes. I just need to actually fix it first, y'know.
[17:40] <megabyte405> can someone look at the abiword package?
[17:41] <megabyte405> I've really worked to address all the concerns mentioned, and I believe it's ready to go
[17:41] <pitti> megabyte405: we are in ultra deep-freeze mode now, that makes it extra hard to do such intrusive changes (just as a warning)
[17:42] <slangasek> soren: ...oh ;)
[17:42] <megabyte405> pitti: I am aware of that.  However, it's just changing one package (nothing depends on Abi), and this has been in progress for some time, and it's been approved.  Someone just needs to see that the package is in good shape - that's already been done, and I've addressed all concerns that they brought up
[17:43] <persia> megabyte405: Do you have a bug number for the discussion?
[17:43] <pitti> megabyte405: right, and up to a week ago this wouldn't have been a problem; but the closer we get to the release, the harder it gets to update it, and since yesterday we only take mission-critical bug fixes
[17:43] <pitti> megabyte405: too bad that the timing sucks so much now :/
[17:43] <pitti> megabyte405: we shuold try hard to provide it as an update to hardy, though
[17:43] <megabyte405> bug 202174
[17:44] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 202174 in abiword "Please update to version 2.6" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/202174
[17:44] <slangasek> megabyte405: the trouble is that now, any packages that we accept, we have to wait for them to get built and then rebuild any CD images that the package is on
[17:44] <megabyte405> I don't think we're on any cd images
[17:44] <megabyte405> perhaps just Xubuntu, actually
[17:44] <pitti> megabyte405: they are on the DVDs
[17:44] <seb128> xubuntu is using abiword no?
[17:44] <pitti> xubuntu too, right
[17:45] <pitti> megabyte405: in three months we'll have a point release (8.04.1); releasing it there would still provide most of the benefits, without breaking the 8.04 release now; WDYT?
[17:45] <megabyte405> I can do the final changelog merging right now if someone takes a peek at that debdiff and sees that I didn't break anything since the last review, of which I am confident
[17:45] <megabyte405> I'm really, really concerned with having 2.4.6 in hardy
[17:46] <megabyte405> There was a lot (and I mean a lot - 2.5 years of branch) of cleanup, some of which might have resolved unseen security bits.  I know we did make some changes to use standard structures instead of homebuilt stuff (STL vector instead of our own vector class, etc)
[17:48] <pitti> megabyte405: but even the current testing showed some problems and regressions (scrolling AFAIK?), so we'd have another two months to sort them out for 8.04.1
[17:49] <megabyte405> there is that scrolling thing, but as I mention in the bug, as that appears on no other platform, I think that's not an abi bug, and in any case, a low level bug like that (workaround: spin your scroll wheel slower) doesn't seem to be a logical blocker for two and a half years of progress
[17:49] <megabyte405> 2.4 hasn't been touched in a year and a half
[17:50] <megabyte405> and the scrolling bit is the only regression.
[17:51] <pitti> (that we heard about so far)
[17:52] <megabyte405> I have used it, and it works well
[17:52] <megabyte405> to be honest, I've been using the 2.6 branch for about a year and a half
[17:52] <megabyte405> on both linux and windows
[17:55] <uwog> i just heard that abi 2.6 may not make it into hardy; now that's a fine choise, but keep in mind that 2.4.6 is unmaintained and *does* contain various security issues that were found and fixed in 2.6 (sadly, we don't have a lot, except for 1 recent one)
[17:56] <uwog> so if you stick with 4.6 for 5 years, then you have to maintain it yourself :)
[17:56] <uwog> s/4.6/2.4.6
[17:56] <pitti> uwog: the proposal was to put it into the hardy point release instead of hardy
[17:57] <pitti> uwog: thus we'd be 'stuck' with it for a mere three months
[17:57] <uwog> pitti: i'm not too familiar with ubuntu's releases, but if the hardy point release gets to all users, then sure
[17:57] <uwog> because especially the security issues scare me
[17:58] <pitti> uwog: such a big update is still a biiig exception, and I can't promise that it'll make it, but at this point it's much better than getting it uploaded/fixed/onto CDs/DVDs now and delay the Hardy release for that
[17:58] <slangasek> packages included in point releases show up as regular updates to the stable release, just one step removed from security updates
[17:58] <kees> uwog: I am unaware of any outstanding security issues in abiword.  Do you have a list?
[17:58] <pitti> uwog: (security issues: we have to fix them in dapper, etc. as well)
[17:58] <uwog> pitti: delaying ubuntu for abi doesn't seem like a good choice :)
[17:59] <slangasek> as for "security issues", yes, we have /other/ supported releases of Ubuntu that include abiword 2.4.6, it would be nice to have some communication about the substance of those security issues instead of using that as a scare tactic only
[17:59] <uwog> kees: the issues i'm currently aware of is a recent fix to the applix filter, and maybe one to the ODT importer (we couldn't exploit a buffer overflow, but surely someone else can)
[18:00] <uwog> slangasek: i'm very much aware
[18:00] <kees> uwog: can you point me to the bug reports, I would like to get CVEs assigned for them.
[18:00] <uwog> kees: there were never any bugreports... the code was just committed to our repos.. that's the annoying thing
[18:00] <megabyte405> uwog: yeah, sum1 fixed some odt stuff recently - I did include those patches in the package
[18:01] <uwog> megabyte405: the 'fixed array' issues, yes
[18:01] <uwog> and 2.6.2 has 1 change to the applix plugin that is a buffer overflow
[18:01] <uwog> it sucks that we don't have a proper record for 2.5 years of development work; feel free to flame us of it
[18:02] <megabyte405> kees: we have an exceptional tester/coder ("sum1") who is very good at reading code/testing things and finding bugs.   He started by filing tons of bugs, but now it's generally quicker for him to just fix the bug
[18:02] <kees> megabyte405: heh
[18:02] <uwog> ah yes, that's better: blame sum1 for fixing the bugs1
[18:02] <uwog> s/1/!
[18:02]  * megabyte405 realizes it's probably futile to try to find those bug fixes by searching for "buffer" or "overflow" in the thunderbird svn commit mail folder...
[18:02] <uwog> megabyte405: might turn up something
[18:03] <kees> well, if there are security fixes going in, all the distros would appreciate hearing about it.  Can you arrange to either email me (kees@ubuntu.com) or vendor-sec (vendor-sec@lst.de) with details on the security commits?  we'd all greatly appreciate it.  :)
[18:03] <uwog> after a few hours of searching the massive archive\
[18:03] <uwog> megabyte405: can you at least mail the ODT and applix fixes ?
[18:03] <megabyte405> uwog: my point exactly on the massive search
[18:03] <megabyte405> uwog: are those post-2.6.2?
[18:03] <uwog> 1 is post 2.6.2
[18:04] <uwog> the applix one is on 2.6.2
[18:04] <megabyte405> I'm working off a 2.6.2 source with all of sum1's fixes backported
[18:04] <megabyte405> ok
[18:05] <megabyte405> I should really just earch for all of sum1's commits...
[18:05] <uwog> poor tbird
[18:16] <aquo> i tried the release candidate with qemu (boot from cd), but it didn't work ...
[18:16] <twi_> Keybuk, mdz, $anybodywhosattendinguds ping
[18:16] <aquo> i get lost with some busybox command line in initramfs
[18:17] <Keybuk> twi_: hello
[18:18] <twi_> Keybuk hey, i'm an Elisa developer, we're planning on coming to UDS-Intrepid to talk about Elisa in ubuntu
[18:18] <twi_> Keybuk we're working on a spec to discuss there
[18:18] <Keybuk> twi_: cool
[18:18] <Keybuk> working on a spec?
[18:19] <twi_> yes, to integrate Elisa in the desktop
[18:19] <twi_> to offer a better experience along the lines of osx/frontrow
[18:19] <Riddell> UDS isn't about talks generally, more discussions and specs
[18:20] <Keybuk_> twi_: sorry, something here dropped, did I miss anything since my last message?
[18:21] <twi_> Keybuk_: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/elisa-integration
[18:22] <_MMA_> Keybuk: I pointed ﻿twi_ to you or mdz because if I remember correctly you guys have worked on the scheduling.
[18:22] <Keybuk_> at this UDS, we're not doing automatic Launchpad-based scheduling
[18:22] <Keybuk_> instead there will be a handful of free rooms with whiteboards outside
[18:22] <Keybuk_> in which you can grab free slots, etc.
[18:23] <_MMA_> Ohh....
[18:24] <_MMA_> Keybuk_: So totally free-form?
[18:24] <Keybuk_> in fact, we're positively discouraging people from registering specs in Launchpad first
[18:24] <Keybuk_> since the temptation is to attempt to write the spec before
[18:24] <Keybuk_> which makes it very hard to discuss freely, since the interested parties have already made the decisions
[18:25] <_MMA_> True.
[18:25] <twi_> Keybuk_ sorry I've been dragged away for 5 mins
[18:25] <twi_> Keybuk_ ok, sounds good
[18:26] <twi_> Keybuk_ we're going to be able to stay there for 2-3 days, not the whole summit
[18:26] <thesaltydog> why on 2.6.24 my /proc/bus/usb/devices is empty even if I have inserted an USB-pen?
[18:26] <Keybuk_> twi_: which makes not using the scheduler even more ideal for you, since you can add it to the board on the days you're there
[18:26] <Keybuk_> thesaltydog: /proc/bus/usb isn't supported in recent distributions
[18:26] <twi_> Keybuk_ yeah it's cool to me
[18:26] <Keybuk_> thesaltydog: it's been deprecated for ages, and many (including Ubuntu) don't even enable it anymore
[18:27] <twi_> Keybuk_ but we're going to be able to stay there for 2-3 days, not the whole summit
[18:27] <thesaltydog> Keybuk_, ehi! I was relying on it.. what is a workaround to detect an usb pen not formatted? fdisk -l doesn't work for the user
[18:27] <twi_> Keybuk_ so when do you think it would be better for us to be there? beginning/middle/end of the summit?
[18:27] <Keybuk_> twi_: any time
[18:27] <twi_> ok, perfect then
[18:29] <thesaltydog> Keybuk_, on 2.6.22 fdisk -l gave the user a list of inserted USB pens, even if not mounted. In 2.6.24 it is no more the case.
[18:29] <Keybuk_> thesaltydog: file a bug on util-linux
[18:29] <thesaltydog> ok..:-(
[18:29] <thesaltydog> thanks!
[18:30] <Keybuk_> np
[18:30] <Keybuk_> --> train
[18:51] <ilembitov> Hi, all. I am a complete beginner in programming, I went through some fundamental Computer Science books, but have no experience in practical programming whatsoever. So I wanted to participate in some Python project for Ubuntu at the lowest position so I could learn from real activities and practices. Is my plan any real?
[18:52] <megabyte405> ilembitov: sure - go look in launchpad for some bug that affects you (or at the very least that you can reproduce), and try to fix it.  The best way to get involved is to scratch an itch
[18:57] <DB42> how can i check why my laptop fan doesn't work after returning from hibernation till i unplug AC ?
[18:57] <laga> ilembitov: if you'd like to work on mythbuntu (a media centre distribution), you're always welcome in #ubuntu-mythtv-dev
[18:58] <ilembitov> laga: MythTV is Python-based, isn't it? Or was it Elisa?
[18:58] <laga> ilembitov: mythtv is c++. dunno about elisa.
[18:58] <laga> but we've got some python-based management apps
[18:58] <ilembitov> megabyte405: I've found a mentoring section on Launchpad. Am I on the right way?)
[18:59] <megabyte405> ilembitov: not so much -that's for those who want to get involved in packaging.  You'd probably be better off looking for an upstream project to work with - pick your favorite program and go visit their site, irc channel, etc
[19:00] <ilembitov> megabyte405: Oh, I see. Thanks, all.
[19:00] <megabyte405> Ubuntu packages and aggregates upstream packages, and does some develop of its own (yes, frequently in Python) on system integration stuff, but if you find something you're really interested in, that is going to be the easiest
[19:00] <megabyte405> plus, then what you do hopefully makes it into all distributions :)
[19:07] <heno> *** The first candidate images are up: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/ *** Please help test!
[19:07] <laga> yay
[19:08] <compbrain> If I have an init script that runs fine on its own, but fails if run as a result of apt-get [install,upgrade], what should I look at?
[19:11] <cjwatson> StevenK: are you guys aware of / working on the hildon-control-panel build failure on amd64? it's the only uninstallable left in the archive for supported architectures
[19:12] <slangasek>   * Cast state.state_size to gsize. Fixes build failure on 64-bit arches.
[19:12] <slangasek> heh, or not
[19:12] <slangasek> StevenK: fix it harder
[19:14] <ilembitov> megabyte405: Yeah, asking the same question on Python channel definitely wasn't a good idea. Seems like I've seen only two projects that offered some kind of mentoring - Ubuntu and Google Summer Of Code)
[19:15] <laga> (and mythbuntu. ;))
[19:15] <megabyte405> ilembitov: you don't need a specific mentoring program.  If you go to any project you ahve an interest in, read the "How to ask smart questions" guide you can find ubuntu), and go find something to work on, I'm sure you'll get assistance
[19:15] <megabyte405> a formal mentoring program takes a lot of energy, while a less formal "if you have a question and can't find the answer, ask it" process is more efficient in most cases
[19:16] <laga> yup
[19:31] <tkamppeter> sistpoty, saivann has uploaded debdiffs to fix all copyright files now, should they also go into Hardy or is this not so important? The new packages do not have functional fixes, as their PPDs were correct in the first place.
[19:37] <SEJeff> tkamppeter, Seems like that would be SRU
[19:40] <pitti> cjwatson: I told him some days ago, but the attempted fix didn't work
[19:43] <Caesar> slangasek: your fix for #208419 is a bit sucky (witness #216990)
[19:44] <slangasek> Caesar: aware of 216990; patch in the works, suffering from RM contention
[19:44] <slangasek> so unfortunately that'll have to be 8.04.1 at this stage :/
[19:45] <tkamppeter> SEJeff, you are right, nothing is broken in these packages, there is only a "library" instead of "program" in the licence header.
[19:47] <tkamppeter> SEJeff, sistpoty, only package really important to go in is brother-cups-wrapper-laser1, as this one has a real bug fix.
[19:47] <SEJeff> tkamppeter, Is it an RC bug?
[19:48] <tkamppeter> SEJeff, the problem originally descried in bug 219509 was also in the RC.
[19:48] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 219509 in brother-cups-wrapper-laser1 "printing Din A4 format not working" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/219509
[19:48] <pitti> soren: I'm curious -- virtio-blk sounds kind of important? what does (or rather, did) it do?
[19:48] <kees> Riddell: can you sync snort, based on the motu-release ACK in 213143?
[19:49] <alex-weej> Has there been any official word on what we're doing with the ALSA/PulseAudio race?
[19:49] <Riddell> kees: I can
[19:49] <kees> Riddell: cool, thanks.
[19:49] <aquo> ok, i proceeded with my experiments with qemu and the RC-images ...
[19:50] <aquo> it is crucial to allocated enough memory to the VM
[19:50] <crimsun> alex-weej: for the images, nothing for the release this week.
[19:50] <alex-weej> crimsun: for the longer term
[19:50] <alex-weej> i've given up on 8.04.0 :)
[19:51] <crimsun> alex-weej: that depends.  Did you add your feedback to the bugs?
[19:51] <alex-weej> the bug is worryingly void on any @ubuntu/canonical chatter
[19:51] <aquo> with 256 mb nothing happens, failure with initramfs busybox prompt and no error message ...
[19:51] <alex-weej> crimsun: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/198453
[19:51] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 198453 in alsa-lib "Default ALSA device must use PulseAudio, otherwise ALSA applications may fail" [High,Confirmed]
[19:51] <SEJeff> tkamppeter, RC as in release critical
[19:52] <aquo> with 400mb boot process proceeds, but X won't start ...
[19:52] <alex-weej> crimsun: i replied to you
[19:52] <crimsun> alex-weej: I'm not sure what you mean by "devoid of.."
[19:52] <aquo> complaining about missing get-edid and discover tools ...
[19:52] <SEJeff> pitti, virtio-blk is the paravirt disk stuff for kvm
[19:52] <alex-weej> crimsun: i mean it's mostly people talking about it who have no authority to make any decisions.
[19:52] <pitti> SEJeff: i. e. the bits that make it fast?
[19:52] <aquo> i think, tomorrow in the company i will try with vmware workstation ...
[19:54] <SEJeff> pitti, Yes
[19:54] <pitti> a pity
[19:54] <crimsun> alex-weej: at least 4 devs have commented in that report
[19:54] <slangasek> so fast that it loses its clock, yes
[19:54] <SEJeff> pitti, virtio block QEMU driver to be specific
[19:55] <crimsun> alex-weej: and it appears that nothing will change for 8.04.1 WRT a global or per-user asoundrc effecting routing through the pulse pcm plug.  That is way too invasive.
[19:55] <alex-weej> crimsun: why not?
[19:55] <alex-weej> crimsun: and who decided this? and why isn't it mentioned in the bug?
[19:56] <crimsun> alex-weej: no one decided it; that's why I said "it appears".
[19:56] <aquo> has anybody of you tested RC-images with qemu?
[19:56] <laga> what kind of changes will happen for 8.04.1? any difference from the normal SRU process?
[19:57] <seb128> updates will be sru as usual
[19:57] <Amaranth> jcastro: this crew duties thing looks like what i was doing last time anyway :P
[19:57] <seb128> 8.04.1 will be new cds images
[19:57] <crimsun> alex-weej: I understand your perspective, but "oh well, screw them" is not legitimate for a release, particularly an LTS.
[19:58] <seb128> there will be some extra focus in fixing bugs in hardy though
[19:58] <HelloWorld1> hello anyone out there, could anyone could advise me which remastering tool is fast to make an ISO?
[19:58] <alex-weej> crimsun: but the fact is the fixes to "them" can be rolled out later in the LTS. every new OS has "teething problems" and this to me is acceptable, especially for third party components
[19:58] <alex-weej> Amaranth: you been following the Pulse/ALSA bug?
[19:58] <Amaranth> alex-weej: not really
[19:59] <Amaranth> alex-weej: Last I heard the idea was to make pulseaudio use dmix so apps that want to talk to alsa directly can
[19:59] <SEJeff> HelloWorld1, man mkisofs. This is the wrong channel for that. Try #ubuntu please
[19:59] <Amaranth> so basically our desktop apps get the shiny and all the non-GNOME and/or closed source stuff is out in the cold
[19:59] <crimsun> Amaranth: that's my position.  It is not official - because there is no official position.  In fact, I'm pretty much the only person stabbing at it.
[20:00] <alex-weej> Amaranth: that's really not recommended upstream, though.
[20:00] <sistpoty> tkamppeter: sorry, was afk for a moment, /me looks
[20:00] <alex-weej> Amaranth: as it actually makes the PA-using apps more latent and with no latency feedback
[20:00] <Amaranth> alex-weej: upstream doesn't have to deal with regular users
[20:01] <alex-weej> Amaranth: what are regular users doing that doesn't include Skype/WINE?
[20:01] <Amaranth> i dunno, is vlc still screwed when you do the asoundrc thing?
[20:01] <crimsun> they're installing Flash.  Which no longer pulls in libflashsupport.  And doesn't use ndiswrapper for ia32.
[20:01] <HelloWorld1> SEJeff thank you
[20:01] <crimsun> Amaranth: pulse is the default as per the last upload.
[20:01] <alex-weej> Amaranth: not sure, haven't tried it. is there not a PA-output for VLC? :(
[20:02] <Amaranth> crimsun: last time i checked vlc either didn't have a pulse output or it was broken
[20:02] <crimsun> s/ndiswrapper/nspluginwrapper/
[20:02] <Amaranth> can't remember which
[20:02] <alex-weej> crimsun: wha? why would flash use ndis?
[20:02] <Amaranth> but sound was screwed if you tried to seek through a video
[20:02] <crimsun> too many n*plug*wrappers
[20:02] <Amaranth> too many hacks
[20:02] <jcastro> Amaranth: yeah, now you get another shirt. :D
[20:02] <alex-weej> crimsun: oh, why is that a problem for ia32? and last time i checked flashplugin-nonfree DID pull libflashsupport
[20:02] <Amaranth> alex-weej: it stopped doing so a couple days ago
[20:03] <alex-weej> is this an Fx crasher perchance?
[20:03] <sistpoty> tkamppeter: imo we don't need to change this for hardy, as the boilerplate refers to the GPL
[20:03] <crimsun> alex-weej: it doesn't, because for quite a few users, it makes FF3.0b5 unusable.
[20:03] <alex-weej> but surely it's still unusable without it?
[20:03] <Amaranth> crimsun: But I loved playing tricks with youtube to make it not crash
[20:03] <ogra> crimsun, asac and me inversted quite some time into that, but its a fact that you are the one with the biggest expertise here
[20:03] <Amaranth> alex-weej: no, because we let it talk to alsa now
[20:04] <alex-weej> Amaranth: because you're not using the pulse plug, right.
[20:04] <alex-weej> so why aren't we just dropping PA?
[20:04] <crimsun> alex-weej: it's a bit more usable without libflashsupport installed.
[20:04] <alex-weej> we are basically forgoing any benefit at all
[20:04] <crimsun> alex-weej: because it's not my call, nor do I wish it to be.
[20:05] <crimsun> and we're on the cusp of release, as slangasek notes.
[20:05] <alex-weej> you know, i spoke to Lennart a week or so ago
[20:05] <Amaranth> pulse does end up being useless though
[20:05] <asac> alex-weej: crimsun brought some new ideas that looked promissing. howveer there was bad feedback that didn
[20:05] <asac> t allow us to ship those changes unfortunately
[20:05] <crimsun> asac: those were all addressed.
[20:06] <crimsun> skipping is due to scheduler; Ingo pushed a patch into 2.6.25 right before its release that addresses it.
[20:06] <alex-weej> RT bug?
[20:06] <asac> crimsun: ok. didn't know that the other issues were addresses as well
[20:06] <crimsun> alternately, people can enable CONFIG_FAIR_CGROUP_SCHED
[20:07] <asac> crimsun: we should certainly start to prepare a -proposed update then
[20:07] <alex-weej> what is the synopsis of this fix?
[20:07] <crimsun> asac: already pushed to bzr
[20:07] <asac> alex-weej: bug 192888
[20:07] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 192888 in pulseaudio "firefox crashes on flash contents" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/192888
[20:07] <asac> to get the full story
[20:08] <crimsun> alex-weej: to use dmix and dsnoop for the initial run and allow hal-detect to take care of hot(un)plugged ones afterward.  Unfortunately there's a race in suspend-on-idle.
[20:08] <alex-weej> i may be suffering some kind of myopia, but what is the point in using PA if we're using dmix?
[20:09] <crimsun> alex-weej: because we have those crackful apps like Skype, Flash, ...
[20:09] <alex-weej> we don't ship any GNOME tools that are suitable for controlling PA (they don't really exist yet)
[20:09] <crimsun> correct, that's why pavucontrol and ilk are still in universe
[20:10] <alex-weej> right, so to the end-user, there is no goodness of PA
[20:10] <alex-weej> they can't do fancy things like using network audio devices or independent stream volume control
[20:10] <alex-weej> which leaves us with the same functionality set as with dmix
[20:10] <alex-weej> just with more latency and more resource usage
[20:10] <crimsun> alex-weej: they'd have to install pavucontrol for a pretty front regardless
[20:10] <alex-weej> exactly
[20:11] <alex-weej> so we might as well drop it from the gst default pipeline and remove the dep from ubuntu-desktop
[20:11] <crimsun> why weren't you arguing this in January?
[20:11] <alex-weej> because i thought it would be worked out without using dmix.
[20:11] <macd> is there a way to search for a file in a package without downloading it? looking for what contains libpci.so.2 in hardy, libpci1 has .so.1, xchat-xsys plugin requires .so.2 but its not a dependancy for install
[20:12] <crimsun> alex-weej: it currently - Hardy will ship - with it NOT using dmix and dsnoop.
[20:12] <crimsun> -EGRAMMAR, but whatever
[20:12] <aquo> am i required to use pulse audio?
[20:12] <ogra> alex-weej, not using a sound daemon would make us lose gnome event sounds
[20:13] <alex-weej> esd still works
[20:13] <crimsun> aquo: no, you can opt out.
[20:13] <ogra> right
[20:13] <aquo> i don't like all the sound deamons. i use xfce, but not xubuntu ...
[20:13] <Amaranth> macd: apt-file
[20:13] <alex-weej> so currently we have the race condition and failing ALSA apps when PA goes into use first, nothing we can do about that
[20:13] <aquo> it a mess with all the sound deamons, plain alsa is pretty fine.
[20:13] <aquo> +is
[20:14] <alex-weej> so damage limitation -- switch the default gst output to gconfsink again
[20:14] <pitti> persia: is there a bug# for your tcl8.5 upload? ack from motu-release?
[20:14] <macd> Amaranth, ty
[20:15] <crimsun> pitti: from -motu today:
[20:15] <crimsun> 12:36       ScottK > persia: No.  Ack.  Please mark it in the bug when there is  one.
[20:15] <pitti> crimsun: cheers
[20:15] <pitti> persia: that should affect Debian as well; do they know about it?
[20:16] <pitti> ah, apparently already fixed there
[20:17] <mgolisch> why does hardy ship with ff3?
[20:17] <mgolisch> is there a good reason for that?
[20:17] <Amaranth> because ff2 won't exist in 3 years?
[20:17] <Amaranth> heck, ff2 won't exist in 1 year
[20:17] <macd> Amaranth, apt-file update takes ages :(
[20:18] <Tm_T> mgolisch: also, any reason not to? :)
[20:18] <mgolisch> oh but its beta or rc ware
[20:18] <mgolisch> isnt that a bad idea?
[20:18] <Amaranth> sure, it's a beta
[20:18] <Amaranth> but it's pretty solid
[20:18] <Amaranth> and will be updated later
[20:18] <mgolisch> yeah but lots of extension do not support ff3
[20:18] <Tm_T> yet
[20:18] <Amaranth> too bad for them, they'll go away soon
[20:19] <mgolisch> :)
[20:19] <Amaranth> mozilla already said update or die
[20:19] <mgolisch> i see
[20:19] <mgolisch> :)
[20:19] <mgolisch> another question, did someone managed to build cdemu on current ubuntus?
[20:19] <Tm_T> mgolisch: but glad to see I'm not the only one who have spent his time wondering these things ;)
[20:20] <mgolisch> it worked wondefull before feisty but after that it doesnt, or does anyone know an alternative?
[20:21] <alex-weej> Amaranth, crimsun, asac: is it worth caring about this or should we just let it slide? i don't want to waste time preparing a case if it's a hopeless one. plenty of other low-hanging fruit.
[20:22] <asac> alex-weej: if you want to help, test the latest in the bug
[20:22] <asac> and comment
[20:22] <alex-weej> asac: test what sorry?
[20:22] <asac> alex-weej: test the latest patch in the bug
[20:22] <crimsun> alex-weej: IMO, it's worth it, but be aware that your perspective seems to differ to mine.
[20:23] <alex-weej> crimsun: right. my perspective is upstream's, though. so therefore it's better. just kidding. :P
[20:24] <crimsun> well, for the record, I do agree with upstream's.  However, I'm keenly aware that users trample all over upstream's conffiles.
[20:26] <calc> anyone know how to fix this error?
[20:26] <calc> Because "gpg: using classic trust model
[20:26] <calc> gpg: using subkey 1FEA0B26 instead of primary key E65A30D5
[20:26] <calc> gpg: 1FEA0B26: There is no assurance this key belongs to the named user
[20:26] <calc> gpg: [stdin]: encryption failed: unusable public key
[20:26] <calc> ", you may need to select different mail options.
[20:27] <calc> evolution won't let me encrypt emails
[20:38] <alex-weej> crimsun: well that's their problem. :P
[20:39] <alex-weej> i've just posted on the bug my view of a cleaner way of achieving what you hope to achieve by using dmix and dsnoop
[20:39] <alex-weej> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/198453
[20:39] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 198453 in alsa-lib "Default ALSA device must use PulseAudio, otherwise ALSA applications may fail" [High,Confirmed]
[20:42] <ogra> alex-weej, solution 1 would be fine if there wouldnt be bug 192888
[20:42] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 192888 in pulseaudio "firefox crashes on flash contents" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/192888
[20:42] <alex-weej> ogra: then all the effort should be going into 192888 without just pulling libflashsupport
[20:42] <ogra> right, thats my opinion
[20:42] <alex-weej> do it properly or not at all, is my view!
[20:42] <laga> slangasek: can you respin the mythbuntu alt disk?
[20:43] <slangasek> laga: that's scheduled to happen soon whether you want it or not ;)
[20:44] <jdong>  /me wonders if he can pause a libvirt VM, reboot, and resume it....
[20:44] <jdong> I bet Fujitsu will tell me that I'm insane again for wondering that :D
[20:44] <alex-weej> ogra, asac: has this fx/libfs bug turned up in ephy btw?
[20:44] <alex-weej> only i've been using it for ages with no problems...
[20:45] <alex-weej> if so, we can drop fx and distribute ephy as the default browser!
[20:45] <jdong> slangasek: oh mighty release deity, do you think there'll be any more updates to Hardy's release that may require a reboot after I installed today's l-u-m stuff? :)
[20:45] <slangasek> jdong: are you asking whether there are many more updates pending?
[20:45] <jdong> slangasek: pretty much
[20:45] <jdong> slangasek: at least ones to the kernel
[20:45] <slangasek> yeah, none
[20:45] <asac> alex-weej: i have no idea what you are talking about.
[20:46] <jdong> slangasek: okies :)
[20:46] <alex-weej> asac: libflashsupport
[20:46] <asac> alex-weej: the crashes are certainly the same for ephy
[20:46] <ogra> alex-weej, http://www.pulseaudio.org/ticket/267
[20:46] <ogra> thats te prob
[20:46] <ogra> feel free to fix :)
[20:46] <alex-weej> asac: weird. not had it yet.
[20:46] <alex-weej> on amd64 though.
[20:46] <asac> its 225
[20:46] <ogra> asac, was duplicated
[20:46] <asac> alex-weej: on amd64 you wont see firefox crash
[20:46] <alex-weej> ah, but npviewer does?
[20:46] <asac> alex-weej: becaues its guarded by nspluginwrapper
[20:46] <alex-weej> i've noticed that disappear a few times -- i guess that's the crash then.
[20:46] <laga> slangasek: good :)
[20:47] <alex-weej> though audio plays, i just get a grey window.
[20:47] <asac> alex-weej: however oyu would see npviewer crashes .. though not that frequently i guess
[20:47] <asac> yes thats the same bug
[20:47] <asac> on i386 it always kills the browser
[20:47] <alex-weej> how come audio plays?
[20:47] <alex-weej> yeah makes sense, the plugin is in-process right?
[20:47] <asac> yes
[20:48] <asac> don't ask me why the audio stilly plays. maybe its a buffer thing
[20:48]  * compbrain twiddles waiting for qa iso downloads
[20:48] <alex-weej> asac: thanks, i understand
[20:49] <asac> alex-weej: try the latest PA from bzr and let us know if that helps for your sound setup
[20:49] <asac> alex-weej: that would be more helpful than questioning the libflashsupport droppage :)
[20:49] <alex-weej> asac: how do i build a package from bzr?
[20:49] <alex-weej> and what does it do? just use dmix and dsnoop?
[20:49] <asac> alex-weej: it tries to workaround the issues we have as good as possible
[20:50] <asac> alex-weej: i am not sure of the latest details, but in general thats the case, yes.
[20:50] <alex-weej> i don't see why using dmix and dsnoop wouldn't work, but like i said there is a better solution for the same final product. drop PA.
[20:50] <ogra> alex-weej, that would get us away from upstream ... gnome uses PA
[20:50] <alex-weej> ogra: er? sure?
[20:50] <alex-weej> i don't think so.
[20:50] <asac> alex-weej: we got that from gnome. yes.
[20:50] <ogra> pretty
[20:51] <alex-weej> you mean you got the default gst elements config from upstream gnome?
[20:52] <alex-weej> ah, esound is relegated to universe now. damn.
[20:54] <alex-weej> i find it bizarre that gnome-desktop are depending on pulseaudio already. they still don't even depend on notification-daemon.
[21:12] <slangasek> Caesar: patch sent to 216990 now, testing welcome
[21:13] <slangasek> laga: mythbuntu daily done
[21:13] <laga> slangasek: yay
[21:14] <compbrain> If anyone is waiting for an amd64 qa iso, i've jigdo'ed it -- http://xrl.us/hardyqaamd64
[21:15] <pitti> compbrain: cdimage.u.c. already provides .jigdos, FYI
[21:15] <pitti> compbrain: (I use them all the time :) )
[21:15] <compbrain> pitti: I mean, if your waiting for the whole iso. cdimage.u.c is pumping out a measly 50KB/s for me on either US coast
[21:16] <compbrain> So I built the iso and mirrored that.
[21:16] <pitti> compbrain: aah; yeah, that makes more sense to me now
[21:16] <pitti> cdimage is quite hammered ATM, I suppose
[21:16] <slangasek> right, so he used jigdo as an ISO teleportation device
[21:16] <slangasek> yes, #ubuntu-testing confirms this
[21:16]  * pitti ♥ jigdo
[21:17] <pitti> seb128: hm, floppy handling still sucks; well, something for .1
[21:18] <compbrain> pitti: It's far more fun with an entire archive mirror 1 network hop away :)
[21:18] <pitti> compbrain: yummy
[21:18] <laga> i'd assume apt-cacher on localhost would be even faster :)
[21:19] <compbrain> Na. We've got our mirror on a enterprise NAS device with speedy hardware as a frontend
[21:19] <compbrain> My sata disks aren't that fast
[21:19] <laga> okay, that's nice :)
[21:20] <ScottK> pitti, slangasek, Riddell (or any archive-admin I've missed): If a source package makes statements about trademark restrictions should/must debian/copyright describ those resitrictions or do we not care because it's not copyright that's at issue?
[21:20]  * pitti adds elmo to the CC: list ^
[21:21] <ScottK> This is the package in question: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=ttf-ubuntu-title
[21:21] <pitti> ScottK: I have to admit I haven't come across such a case yet
[21:21] <ScottK> It's a definite improvement from what we have now (one that has no source), but I'd like to get it right.
[21:23] <compbrain> Anyone know if Bug #210672 has been fixed with patches in the end of the bug?
[21:23] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 210672 in linux "linux-image-2.6.24-13-openvz refuses to boot" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/210672
[21:26] <Riddell> ScottK: it doesn't restrict copying so no need to mention it in debian/copyright, however it's still useful information so Trademarks-Readme.txt should go in /usr/share/doc/<package>
[21:27] <ScottK> Riddell: Thank you.
[21:40] <elmo> ScottK: while Riddell's answer's technically right, I'd strongly encourage folks to include such information in debian/copyright
[21:43] <ScottK> elmo: Thanks.  It's mentioned in the package description, so I think it's sufficiently prominent, particularly less than 8 hours before the archive closes.
[21:47] <elmo> ScottK: sure, I don't mean this package in particular, I mean in general
[21:47] <lool> ScottK: Hey, with the new Ubuntu debsign, I get this in my pbuilder builds:
[21:47] <lool> mv: try to overwrite `/home/lool/.pbuilder/result/sid/laptop-mode-tools_1.41-1_i386.changes', overriding mode 0644 (rw-r--r--)? y
[21:47] <ScottK> RIght.
[21:48] <lool> ScottK: Could it be that some mv wasn't "-f"-ed and should have been?
[21:48] <ScottK> Could be.  I didn't get that when I tested it before I uploaded it.  Not sure.
[21:48] <ScottK> elmo: Thanks.
[21:49] <lool> ScottK: I have alias mv='mv -i'
[21:51] <ScottK> So it's updating your .changes file.  Is that suprising then?
[21:52] <soren> pitti: You can think of virtio as special bus between the host and guest. virtio-blk is a block device driver that makes use of it. It removes the overhead caused by the guest having to talk to an emulated SCSI or IDE controller and the host having to decode those requests again and turn them into something it can usefully handle.
[21:53] <pitti> soren: ah, so that layer of efficiency has been disabled then?
[21:53] <soren> pitti: Truth be told, right now there's not much to gain from it, since that's not actually where the bottleneck is when dealing with emulated block devices.
[21:53] <soren> pitti: You *really* see the performance gain in virtio-net, though. We still have that.
[21:54] <soren> pitti: I can easily push through ~150 megabytes per second through virtio-net.
[22:16] <lool> ScottK: The problem is that it's not
[22:16] <lool> ScottK: it's an internal operation
[22:16] <lool> ScottK: there's an unsigned change, it sign into a signed change file, then moves it over the signed change file
[22:16] <lool> I shouldn't have to confirm this with yes
[22:17] <ScottK> I see.  Well there's nothing Ubuntu unique in debsign that would cause that.
[22:19] <lool> I wonder why it does only happen with pbuilder though
[22:20] <ScottK> No idea.
[22:25] <lool> Hmm it's because pbuilder outputs the .changes files as root
[22:29] <stgraber> ogra: do you plan to test both i386 and amd64 ubuntu alternates for LTSP on real hardware ?
[22:29] <ogra> i cant emulate amd64 so that will have to be real HW
[22:30] <stgraber> ok, I'm doing all virtual at the moment as I don't have access to my test computers (used for other testing)
[22:30] <ogra> i'm just done with one complete edubuntu i386 classroom server install
[22:30] <laga> ogra: is qemu not sufficient? (although really slow)
[22:31] <ogra> stgraber, how the heck do i get thin clients shown in italc ? is there a special IP i have to give ?
[22:31] <stgraber> ogra: italc-launcher should "just work"
[22:31] <ogra> laga, qemu has an amd64 emu that works stable ?
[22:31] <stgraber> ogra: the ica on the thin clients is running on a custom port (10000+<last byte of IP> IIRC)
[22:33] <laga> ogra: dunno about "stable" :)
[22:33] <Caesar> slangasek: we'll give it a test, thanks
[22:50] <bryce> hey, for inkscape we manage the code in svn, but in launchpad there is a bzr mirror of it.  Is it possible to push changes being worked on from a clone of this bzr mirror back up to svn?  Or is doing it via bzr patch the only approach available?
[22:53] <jdong> bryce: with launchpad's mirroring it's not simple, though you can use bzr-rebase to replay all your local revisions onto it
[22:53] <jdong> bryce: with bzr-svn mirroring it would be seamless
[22:53] <bryce> jdong: thanks.  what's involved with switching to bzr-svn mirroring?
[22:53] <jdong> GRUMBLE why does g-p-m suspend my lappy even though it was on AC power and I told it never to suspend on AC?
[22:53] <jdong> bryce: having someone regularly bzr pull from svn and bzr push to launchpad
[22:54] <jdong> bryce: i.e. the process is no longer automated by LP
[22:54] <bryce> jdong: thanks
[22:54] <jdong> certainly
[22:54] <bryce> (unfortunately, sounds too labor intensive)
[23:05] <tedg> bryce: I think it should just be a cron job.  There shouldn't be any conflicts.
[23:05] <tedg> jdong: What is GPM doing?
[23:05] <tedg> jdong: Is there a big?
[23:05] <tedg> bug
[23:06] <jdong> tedg: I didn't file a bug because I need to reproduce it...
[23:06] <jdong> tedg: but I have my macbook hooked up to AC...
[23:06] <jdong> tedg: GPM is configured to never sleep on AC
[23:06] <jdong> tedg: yet in the middle of downloading updates the laptop went to sleep
[23:06] <tedg> jdong: After how long?
[23:07] <jdong> tedg: about 15 minutes; pretty coincidentally similar to my on-battery sleep timeout
[23:11] <tedg> jdong: Hmm, I don't see anything obviously wrong in that code path...
[23:12] <bigon> infinity: are you around?
[23:12] <tedg> jdong: If you capture a log, probably the most interesting message is "Setting system idle timeout"
[23:12] <jdong> tedg: maybe I'm just losing my mind... I might suspect sysfs power supply is misbehaving in some way
[23:12] <jdong> tedg: anyway, I'll look into it and poke people when I have more info
[23:13] <tedg> jdong: Cool.  I'm probably the person you want to poke :)
[23:13] <jdong> tedg: ok, so you're my GPM guy *opens up tomboy note of DOOOOM*
[23:14]  * tedg considers a tomboy patch to remove himself from tomboy notes :)
[23:26]  * lamont wonders what the prompt window was that he just hit return in since it stole focus.   go firefox!
[23:52] <tedg> bryce: http://davelargo.blogspot.com/2008/04/compiz-predefined-levels.html
[23:52] <tedg> bryce: Perhaps we could do that to reduce people expecting more out of their drivers than they can do :)
[23:56] <RussellGee> tedg: do you have a link for the source ?
[23:56] <RussellGee> looks really nice
[23:57] <tedg> RussellGee: No, I don't.  In the comments there are people asking about it.