[12:51] hi there [12:51] is there a meeting coming up? [12:53] good question [12:53] hi stgraber [12:53] RichEd-1: ping ? [12:54] we need to update the website for the release [12:54] hi pips1 & stgraber === RichEd-1 is now known as RichEd [12:54] hi [12:54] pips1: well remembered ... [12:55] i very hard pressed for time [12:55] i presume there is a meeting ... mr ogra dear sir ... you round and about ? [12:55] pips1: me too ... and energy [12:55] probably busy with ISO testing :) [12:55] I can't spend the usual 4-5 hours doing the update on the site.. :-/ [12:55] stgraber: the fun never stops [12:56] speak of the devil / ogre :) [12:56] we meeting now ollie ? [12:56] what I really need is a finished text for the download page that I can then format nicely and done. [12:56] pips1: if we can list what needs to be done ... i can work with people like highvoltage [12:57] RichEd: the good point is that we have less edubuntu images so less testing needed here (but we now have Ubuntu-Studio ...) [12:57] he is always a good person to volunteer in his absence [12:57] ogra: meeting ? or are you dead busy ? [12:58] RichEd, what would you want to discuss ? [12:58] * pips1 notices stgraber mentions ubuntu-studio [12:58] website updates, press release ... party balloons and candles ... release stuff [12:58] party balloons :-) [12:59] * RichEd just *knows* that pips1 will "steal" one of our balloons to take home for his kid [12:59] i'm pretty busy with cmpc installer bugs (apparently intel found out that you can *test* th eimage yesterday) i'm drowning in feedback since the conf call [13:00] o_o [13:00] * ogra sighs ... [13:00] ogra: uhm, aren't test images available for months ? :) [13:00] would have been nice if they started that a month or two ago, not at dawn of the release where i'm busy with other stuff ... [13:00] stgraber, right [13:01] stgraber, i wouldnt complain if they wouldnt actualy find serious bugs :P [13:01] ogra: same as usual :) :( [13:01] yes, and archive being frozen + everyone busy ISO testing doesn't really help I guess [13:01] RichEd, not really [13:01] * pips1 starts to think about the list of things that need done for the website [13:01] RichEd, i have 24h left for changes [13:02] pips1: the css would need a good bugfix update [13:02] erm... we might as well move to #ubuntu-meeting ? [13:02] pips1: if you can mail me, and cc highvoltage ... then we can call off the meeting in the interest of higher priorities [13:02] content/screenshot too [13:02] ah [13:03] pips1: no need to move to the channel i think ... i'll be around and about here ... so ping for comments, or mail me a list of what needs to be done [13:03] i'll rope in some help ... and let you know what we can or can't take care of [13:03] stgraber: well, I suppose I'll make a list of 1.) crucial short-time update needs and 2.) notes about things that ideally need updating... I'm really pressed for time [13:11] pips1: thanks ... highvoltage will also have some ideas / comments i am sure [13:17] btw, https://wiki.edubuntu.org/HardyClassroomServer and https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall are ready so far [13:17] *click* *click* [13:18] ogra: excellent, thanks [13:22] quick question: I can't find oo.org Database in my edubuntu 8.04 installation? [13:22] ? [13:40] pips1, ask calc in -devel [13:40] some oo.o bits had to be dropped for space reasons, nit sure which [13:40] *not [13:41] ogra: did you see the price jump for cmpc gen 2 ? [13:41] First Classmates available for pre-order in US (for $500!) [13:41] right. Open office database was dropped from ubuntu cd, AFAIK [13:42] that from chris dawson ... zdnet [13:43] a week after he reviewed the HP education offerring ... which he commented on as great, but at around $400, he'd take 2 classmates [13:44] RichEd, my dual CPU laptop with 2G ram and 120G HDD costs 599€ [13:44] i doubt that really cuts it ... tsk [13:44] looks like blender was dropped from edu add-on cd ? [13:44] pips1, three releases ago, yes [13:44] oops [13:45] :-) [13:45] :) [13:45] yep ... he also said about the HP that $400 was close to a real notebook at around $ 600 [13:45] that web page on e.org really needs an update :-) [13:45] so $ 500 for classmate makes it an expensive toy with a small screen ... [13:45] and bad resolution [13:45] pips1: it needs a full overhaul, not a face-lift :) [13:45] i have the actual gen 2.0 here with HDD and big screen [13:46] by big do you mean 9" [13:46] using still 800x480 and looking totally clunky [13:46] yeah [13:46] but it doesnt have a higher resolution [13:46] well 9" aint very big in many people's minds ... [13:46] (ask madonna ;) [13:48] pfft [13:49] that really depends on the angle you look at it ... [13:49] mr 12" pips1 scoffs at a mere 9" [13:49] Ubuntu Education Edition 8.04 - Linux for Young Human Beings - new slogan? anyone? [13:49] ogra ... not many girls believe that old line any more ;) [13:50] keep slogan? [13:50] "Educating Human Beings" ? [13:50] pips1: we'd need to get some go ahead to change i think ... but well spotted ... let's give it some thought and come up with some suggestions [13:50] ogra: sounds a bit klunky ... [13:51] What is the ubuntu slogan? [13:51] yeah [13:51] Linux for Human Beings [13:51] so that hasn't changed, then [13:51] Education for Human Beings [13:51] so we need to stick to that with adding one word or so [13:51] hmm [13:52] Linux for Educated Human Beings [13:52] I like the second suggestion better [13:52] Linux for Growing Human Being [13:52] nah [13:52] +s [13:52] Linux for Learning Human Beings [13:54] hi [13:54] hi highvoltage [13:54] I prefere the "Educated" over "Learning" [13:54] hi highvoltage [13:54] *prefer [13:54] aplologies, deadlines looming and I thought the meeting was at 10 [13:55] me also got deadlines looming :-/ [13:55] Linux for Educated Human Beings <- sounds like they are already educated ... i.e. like "It's Linux for our intelligent elitist folk ... not the great umwashed commonners" [13:55] unwashed hehe [13:55] said in a WW II British accent [13:55] * RichEd has to collect a kid from a cancelled soccer practise [13:56] back in 15 [13:56] cu [13:56] ogra: how are you feeling about tomorrow? [13:57] pips1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Unwashed <- see here ... an established english expression [13:57] highvoltage, from an edubuntu and ltsp POV i'm fine cmpc keeps me busy though [13:58] RichEd: stop throwing funny things at me! [13:58] Hoi polloi [13:58] When I was a film critic, I actually met a british director who had made a short form title Hoi Polloi [13:59] ah wikipedia even has the link right there! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoi_Polloi_%281935_film%29 [13:59] looks like another film tho [13:59] anyway, back to work [14:00] ogra: ok. when the new build with suspend is ready, let me know and I'll test. [14:01] highvoltage, thats ready since ages [14:01] 7th i think [14:01] err [14:01] 17th [14:01] should be 17.1 [14:01] I think the one I had was 17 [14:01] had/have [14:04] qcad is new on the cd, right? [14:06] what else is new? rasmol? denemo? iTalc? [14:07] highvoltage: I'm going through the list of edubuntu apps on http://www.edubuntu.org/UsingEdubuntu [14:08] ... trying to figure what what has changed [14:09] pips1: good. tirion is also going through screenshots and generating new ones. it's a pity he doesn't do IRC [14:09] (well not much, anyway) [14:12] pips1: iTalc is new [14:12] IIRC we already had rasmol in Gutsy [14:16] ic [14:16] i thought that was only recently packaged by laserjock [14:17] dunno [14:17] what about kwordquiz? [14:17] I guess I can use packages.ubuntu.org to find out... [14:18] pips1: you probably can diff the depends of the -addon packages from Gutsy to Hardy [14:38] stgraber: erm, how exactly would i be able to do that? [14:43] pips1: the package list in edubuntu-addon is exactly the same !!! [14:43] ? [14:44] stgraber@castiana:~/diff$ diff old-pkg new-pkg [14:44] stgraber@castiana:~/diff$ [14:44] strange, that doesn't sound right [14:45] according to changelog for the -addon only some icon/category and packaging stuff no package change [14:45] we *know* that italc is new... no? you packaged it, no? [14:45] italc is not in -addon but in edubuntu-desktop [14:45] -master is in -addon though [14:46] users wont see anything of the client [14:46] pips1: http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/e/edubuntu-meta/edubuntu-meta_1.59/changelog [14:46] *click* [14:46] ogra: it's not in one of the edubuntu-addon-* package though right ? [14:47] ogra: it's just in the addon CD seed ? [14:47] yep [14:47] which is sufficient [14:47] ok, so my diff is right. the -addon-* meta packages haven't changed [14:47] right [14:47] only the seeds have [14:48] well, i dropped two empty categories from the addon package [14:48] * pips1 never understood this whole seeds proces [14:48] so they did change :) minimally [14:48] *process [14:50] so what are you saying? nothing has changed from gutsy to hardy? [14:50] ;-P [14:51] hang on, I'm trying to find an easy way of getting what has changed [14:52] ogra: since this is a new LTS, what will happen to dapper? [14:52] still supported [14:52] will all the dapper iso's be pulled from the servers? [14:52] ah [14:52] right [14:52] there needs to be some overlap [14:53] Dapper came out with 3 years desktop support and 5 years server support [14:53] you can't change that two years after [14:53] right [14:54] but as i undertood, edubuntu 6.06. LTS "standalone distro" only qualified for 3 years support... [14:54] not 5 years [14:54] right, ogra? [14:54] right [14:55] single pieces of it are 5 years [14:55] edubuntu is desktop so only 3 years [14:55] but the distro as a whole isnt [14:55] well, there are those "single pieces" :-) [14:55] i.e. you can still run the kernel and dhcpd :) [14:55] wow :-) [14:55] they would be supported longer, but the desktop and ltsp bits wouldnt [14:55] how cool is that? [14:55] ! [14:56] ;-) [14:56] the support is defined on a per package set base .... [14:56] -server has 5 years of support [14:56] packages in -server inherit that [14:57] pips1: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/edubuntu.hardy [14:57] so basically, all edubuntu 6.06 LTS deployments now have 1 year to update to 8.04 LTS [14:57] yes [14:57] right [14:58] we need to mention that on the website [15:00] stgraber: thanks for the above link, but it's all rather cryptic to me :-) [15:02] pips1: so basically : Hardy is now an addon, italc instead of tcm, version upgrade for the other packages [15:02] ogra: any major change/add ? [15:04] we should have two sets of information: 1.) what changed from last release, for release notes, 2.) a complete list of all the cool apps currently shipped as "ubuntu education edition" [15:04] stgraber, new artwork indeed, but thats about it i think [15:05] pips1: I can give you 2) as I have the addon CD here [15:05] we need to point out the ltsp change very prominent [15:05] yep, both in release notes and on website [15:05] edubuntu is mostly known for its ltsp implementation people need to grasp that they dont lose anything [15:07] right [15:07] ltsp is in "core" ubuntu now, no harm in that [15:08] ltsp will continue to mature, but the plan is to focus on education apps more .. [15:08] pips1: atomix, dia, edubuntu artwork, gcompris, epiphany, denemo, gnupain, gobby, gvim, inkscape, italc, kalzium, keduca, kino, kstars, kverbos, kvoctrain, liferea, gnome lockdown, qcad, rasmol, screem, scribus, tuxmath, tuxpaint, tuxtype, xaos [15:09] gnupain sounds fun [15:09] for aspiring doctors [15:09] pips1: that's what the user can install from gnome-app-install when he inserts the CD [15:09] thanks [15:17] pips1, you plan a complete release announcement atm ? [15:17] slangasek asked if he could link that from the official announcement [15:18] do we have an url ? [15:18] (or future url) [15:23] future url could be http://www.edubuntu.org/news/8.04-release, but we should coordinate with ubuntu.com, i.e. what their url will look like [15:23] have a look at http://www.edubuntu.org/news/7.10-release [15:25] the above future URL was for the *tour* the future release notes URL could be: http://www.edubuntu.org/ReleaseNotes/8.04 [15:27] ogra: do you know where i can reach newz2000 ? [15:27] ogra: ok, thanks, will use that url as a placeholder for now [15:27] he used to have his own irc channel around release time [15:27] ( http://www.edubuntu.org/news/8.04-release) [15:30] ok, that url is for the feature tour, though [15:30] release notes should be : [15:30] http://www.edubuntu.org/ReleaseNotes/8.04 [15:33] pips1, meet slangasek ;) [15:34] * slangasek waves :) [15:35] pips1: hi, so the question is, what page on edubuntu.org should I be linking to from the release announcement mail, as the top-level Edubuntu release announcement [15:37] http://www.edubuntu.org/ReleaseNotes/8.04 [15:37] pips1, thats the anouncement ? or ony the release notes ? [15:37] *only [15:38] RichEd, meep, meep ^^^^ [15:38] ogra: now you got me... [15:39] * pips1 re-reads the question of slangasek and feels daft [15:39] sorry for the confusion [15:39] I think the release announcement should be: [15:39] http://www.edubuntu.org/news/8.04-release [15:40] you said thats the tour before [15:40] analog to the 7.10 release: [15:40] http://www.edubuntu.org/news/7.10-release [15:40] oh. [15:41] so what is the difference between the tour and the release announcement, then? [15:41] and how does ubuntu.com do it? [15:42] basically, we can set the URL to whatever we want (with a path alias in drupal) [15:42] we just have to make our mind up :-) [15:43] hold on, sorry guys, I need to look after my son for a moment :-/ [15:46] * highvoltage is back [15:52] pips1: we've just had a nomenclature change on the Ubuntu side per marketing, so rather than "tour" we're now calling it an "overview", which refers to this document: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyHeron/RC [15:53] pips1: and the release notes are this: http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/804 [15:54] pips1: but optimally, what I'd be linking to from the release announcement is some sort of Edubuntu 8.04 announcement text, since the per-flavor detail in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyHeron/ReleaseAnnouncement is deliberately sparse [15:54] http://www.edubuntu.org/news/7.10-release looks like a pretty good example of what I'm thinking of, yes [15:55] * pips1 looks at the urls [15:59] slangasek: ok, so you'll use http://www.edubuntu.org/news/8.04-release for the url in the release announcement mail for the Ubuntu Education Edition 8.04 "overview" [16:02] that sounds reasonable, yes [16:06] ogra: have pips join #ubuntu-matt [16:06] theer you fgot him [16:06] but that looks like you guys have sorted it already [16:22] pips1: confirmed that you should use: http://www.edubuntu.org/news/8.04-release [16:22] i'll send you the text in an our or two [16:23] i''ll CC ogra for an accuracy comment review ... i want to make sure i have the install options flexibilty clear and realisic :) [16:25] well, the instal options are: install *any* ubunu desktop, pop in addon [16:25] *ubuntu :) [16:25] there are not many other variations :) [16:29] ogra: what options does the user get then ... not just install edubuntu ? they are also able to chose components / application ? [16:29] or is that only planned for the 8.10 [16:30] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyClassroomServer#head-7d164dd6ce5d6e99bc8403e65eb2286fbd87f749 [16:31] it operates on any ubuntu desktop that way [16:31] * RichEd loads the link and makes coffee ... a sensible multi-task [16:31] with net connection that enables the desktop to upll packages from the net additionally it might work with xubuntu/kubuntu as well [16:33] but the officially supported setup that definately needs no net connection bases on having an ubuntu desktop [16:34] all others will need network access because they will miss the deskop base needed by some packages we ship [16:44] ogra: thanks ... the add-remove apps from CD was what i was referring to ... [16:45] for 8.10 we should also consider a few recommended bundle options [16:45] indeed [16:45] make a spec, i'll add it to the team wiki [16:46] i.e. apps for young kids ... apps for teens etc. [16:46] so that a newbie dad installing on his home PC can just click a category and not have to consider what his offspring is ready for or grown past [16:46] coding wise thats trivial, but it will need icons etc [16:47] so a spec should be feasable [16:47] the best kind of feature ... trivial code, big user impact [16:47] good leverage of resource time [16:49] RichEd: sies! [16:50] RichEd: (unless you refer to time/money, and not people) [16:59] wtf ... you mean "appeals to oversized users" ? [16:59] or "large collision with users" [17:00] large collision with oversized users ? [17:00] i guess "appeals to fat people" would not work as a sales bullet point [17:00] nor would "gives you a good smack" [17:01] edubuntu - "teaches even fat people" [17:02] RichEd: heh, no. calling people resources :) [17:02] highvoltage: i was referring to oliver's time ... like gold and diamonds, it is valuable, and limited [17:02] what should i call him ? smokey sweat labour ? [17:03] RichEd: :) [17:03] "will work for tobacco and internet connection" [17:04] "odd hours not a problem" [17:05] perfect! [17:07] pips1: are you around? [17:07] sort of [17:07] I'm babysitting my son [17:07] ok. you know that css bug in the fridge theme where short pages don't look good? [17:13] hey all -- are you planning for some edubuntu sessions @ ubuntu live this summer? [17:20] RichEd should be able to answer that! [17:21] * RichEd is out to smoke ... back in a fag's time [17:26] highvoltage: regarding the css bug: yes, I noticed short pages looking bad... do you have a fix for it? [17:28] pips1: I was going to ask you if you have any ideas :) [17:28] um, no [17:29] ogra: is it reasonable to say that the edubuntu add-on cd will be released withing the next 24hrs? [17:29] pretty sure, yes [17:34] J to the S to the G to the O [17:34] * ogra curses his touchscreen [17:35] * pips1 rubs his eyes [17:35] everytime i want to wipe something off my screen i move windows or click something [17:35] hey jsgotangco [17:36] ogra: don't eat and work at the same time? [17:36] hi pips1 [17:36] highvoltage: are we there yet? hehe [17:36] pips1, i smoke .... [17:36] ahh [17:36] jsgotangco: yep! [18:11] ogra ? you back ? [18:11] back ? from what ? [18:11] i wont go away ... [18:12] i smoke [18:12] or was that a reference to your hot programming ? [18:12] no to the dirt on my screen i wanted to wipe off [18:13] vs pips1's assuption of sesame seeds from munching wth open mouth :) [18:14] * pips1 chuckles as he is munching on japanese rice crackers [18:14] is this okay by you ?> [18:14] 8.04 bring the first release of the restructured Edubuntu - now known [18:14] as the Ubuntu Eucation Edition. The education desktop and application [18:14] suite now installs as an add-on to a standard Ubuntu desktop, or [18:14] individual Education applications can be selected for easy install [18:14] from the CD. [18:15] sounds a bit lonish, like you couldnt take breath during saying it, but technically its correct [18:15] that's intended for a bridge sentence in the ubuntu announcement [18:16] okay then ... steve and i can play with grammar, but that gets the main point across ? [18:17] "application suite" sounds a bit nebulous? but otherwise it think it's clear [18:18] yup, its fine [18:18] it think therefore it is! [18:18] i think [18:18] pips1: i need to make it clear that it is the edubuntu bundle on the CD ... not the whole education repository [18:18] hence the suite is what we have selected as a good base set [18:18] make sense ? [18:19] it makes sense [18:19] why not use bundle? [18:19] instead of "suite"? [18:19] so that covers ... if you go hit me with edubuntu, you get the suite [18:19] dunno [18:19] i you want to select, you can chose from the suite [18:20] using bundle i think does not make the selection point clear [18:20] comments welcome [18:21] how's this ? [18:21] 8.04 bring the first release of the restructured Edubuntu - now known [18:21] as the Ubuntu Education Edition. The education desktop and application [18:21] bundle now installs as an add-on to a standard Ubuntu desktop, or [18:21] individual Education applications may be selected from the bundle for [18:21] easy install from the CD. [18:21] s/installs/install/ grandma change [18:22] hmm [18:22] * pips1 looks up bundle in the thesaurus [18:24] suite i guess does kind of imply "from one company" ... or not [18:25] well, I only ever read the word suite in the combination "office suite" [18:25] lounge suite [18:25] hotel suite [18:25] so in that respect, yes, it sounds a bit like "from one producer" [18:25] he wore a badly spelt suite [18:26] what about "collection" ? [18:27] we often talk about the bundle ... so i'd need some convincing that that is not the right word [18:27] ach, we're nitpicking... suite or bundle is probably just fine.. [18:28] * RichEd takes a break [18:28] famil [18:28] family [18:30] "suite" just sounds a bit snobbish? marketing speak? [18:31] and "bundle", conversely, sounds a bit like "super savers deal" from your local low cost ... get 2 for 1 [18:33] enerprise bundle :) [18:33] (suite means "a series of things", BTW) [18:39] compilation? --> as in "the best of"? [18:40] nah [18:44] shipit will provide the add-on cd only, right? so really, we need to tell them to order both an ubuntu cd and a edubuntu cd, seperately? [18:44] ohhhhhh [18:45] Edubuntu Alternate CD isn't available through shipit at all?!? [18:45] s/Edubuntu Alternate CD/Ubuntu Alternate CD/ [18:46] ogra: ^^^^ [18:46] ? [18:46] no idea [18:47] oh, ubuntu alternate ? no [18:47] i dont think so [18:50] so people wont be able to get a alternate & add-on shipped to them... [18:50] hmm, might be, i dont really know i mst admit [18:51] * ogra points to rich for business stuff [18:58] ogra: so what is the story with the "content-server" and edubuntu? What about Moodle? [18:59] apt-e install edubuntu-server [18:59] i didnt manage to split/rname te package yet, in intrepid there will be a separate content-server package that edubuntu-server will depend on [19:00] currently edubuntu-server == edubuntu-content-server [19:00] and what services does it provide? [19:02] moodle? something else? [19:06] nope [19:06] a siple moodle setup atm [19:07] what do you mean by simple? [19:09] apt-et install edubuntu-server , amswer somequestions, have moodle running [19:09] if you install edubuntu-server, will that moodle server be available publicly? or is it firewalled off and only available on the LAN? [19:09] depends on your answers :) [19:09] * pips1 goes ahead and does apt-get instal edubuntu-server on his test box [19:10] its just depending on set of packages, nothing more [19:10] *a set [19:10] ogra / pips : new improved shorter sweeter ... [19:10] 8.04 brings a restructure of Edubuntu into the Ubuntu Education Edition. [19:10]