[00:00] <RussellGee> I'l have a look around ;)
[00:07] <bryce> tedg: possibly, although I see expectations have no bearing on what the driver is actually capable of so far ;-)
[00:07] <bryce> tedg: we get feature requests for things not even implemented upstream yet
[00:07] <bryce> tedg: but yeah, this sounds like something mvo and amarath might find interesting
[00:07] <tedg> bryce: Heh, okay.
[00:08] <bryce> from an X pov, compiz either works or it doesn't, so the options would just be 1 or "any" ;-)
[00:10] <tedg> bryce: Honestly, that's not what all the screensaver bugs tell me.  It seems very driver/temperature/direction of wind specific on which ones will kill a system.
[01:06] <wilsonicus> Hello.
[05:09] <compbrain> There was a change in apt from dapper to gutsy that broke our projects init script. We get a sighup or the like shortly after invoke-rc.d package start
[06:20] <dholbach> good morning
[06:23] <dholbach> so how are we looking for release?
[06:24] <slangasek> we are looking *intently* for release. :)
[06:24] <RAOF> slangasek: thinks he has one behind the couch, if that's any help.
[06:24] <dholbach> hehe
[06:24] <RAOF> Stupid enter key.
[06:25] <Hobbsee> come on, copy faster
[06:25]  * dholbach checks the iso tracker for bugs that were found
[06:32] <dholbach> I'm not sure, but to me it looks like adding bug 218191 to the iso tracker was a mistake :)
[06:32] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 218191 in bzr "paramiko.SSHException: Server connection dropped" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/218191
[06:34] <jdong> yeah, that has nothing to do with Hardy at all :)
[06:46] <fabbione> hey dholbach
[06:46] <fabbione> hi guys
[06:46] <dholbach> hiya fabbione - how are you doing?
[06:46] <Hobbsee> heya fabbione
[06:46] <fabbione> dholbach: is there anybody in our .de community that lives in Munich?
[06:46] <fabbione> hey Hobbsee
[06:46] <dholbach> fabbione: I think glatzor does
[06:46] <dholbach> hang on
[06:46] <fabbione> dholbach: none of our guys do?
[06:47] <fabbione> /our/canonical...
[06:47] <dholbach> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-munich/+members
[06:47] <fabbione> ok thanks :)
[06:47] <dholbach> glatzor is on there
[06:48] <jdong> *our* :D
[06:49] <fabbione> dholbach: ok thanks...
[06:49] <fabbione> i don't know him...
[06:50] <dholbach> https://launchpad.net/~glatzor - never met him during UDSes?
[06:50] <dholbach> he did great work around gnome-app-install, displayconfig-gtk, etc
[06:50] <fabbione> maybe..
[06:50] <fabbione> my memory for people sucks
[06:51] <dholbach> nice logo for ubuntu-munich: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/3010060/msn_beer.png
[06:55] <Hobbsee> dholbach: hah
[07:29] <warp10> Good morning
[07:33] <emgent> heya warp10 :)
[07:33] <warp10> hey emgent
[07:43] <tseliot> emgent: hi
[07:44] <emgent> heya tseliot
[07:54] <pitti> Good morning
[07:55] <dholbach> heya pitti
[07:55] <Hobbsee> good morning pitti!
[07:57]  * pitti hugs dholbach and Hobbsee
[07:57]  * dholbach hugs y'all back
[08:03] <stgraber> hi pitti
[08:12] <dholbach> hey seb
[08:12] <dholbach> hey seb128 :)
[08:12] <seb128> hello dholbach
[08:14] <pitti> bonjour seb128
[08:14] <seb128> hey pitti
[08:14] <seb128> pitti: what issue did you have with floppy? the floppy is mounted but you get an error dialog?
[08:15] <pitti> seb128: hm, there was some confusion about getting different icons and weird names ("1.5 MB media", etc.)
[08:15] <pitti> seb128: by and large it worked
[08:15] <pitti> I should have taken notes, darn
[08:16] <seb128> pitti: ah, that too, when unmounting the label doesn't change back, it still says 1.5M media
[08:16] <pitti> right
[08:16] <seb128> pitti: bug #206860
[08:16] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 206860 in gvfs "Floppy drive label icon changes to "1,5 GB Media" and don't go back to "Floppy Drive" anymore" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/206860
[08:16] <seb128> pitti: and bug #203722
[08:16] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 203722 in gnome-mount "Double clicking on Floppy Drive gives an error (Unable to mount location) despite it's mounted but not opened in Hardy RC" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/203722
[08:17] <pitti> seb128: ah, that was it, too; thanks
[08:26] <seb128> pitti: bug #203722 is the annoying one, I'll have a look to fix those for 8.04.1 I think, but floppies are not exactly high priority work right now ;-)
[08:26] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 203722 in gnome-mount "Double clicking on Floppy Drive gives an error (Unable to mount location) despite it's mounted but not opened in Hardy RC" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/203722
[08:27] <pitti> seb128: right; and by and large they work, so cosmetics are fine for .1
[08:31] <tjaalton> pitti: hey, would you think that jockey could handle wacom-devices until the driver/xserver did input-hotplug properly?
[08:31] <pitti> argh, these 'psmouse sync lost'/kernel crashes drive me crazy
[08:32] <pitti> tjaalton: everything's possible :)
[08:32] <pitti> tjaalton: for that we need (1) a reliable way of detecting them, and (2) a mostly non-interactive way to set it up
[08:32] <pitti> tjaalton: but certainly jockey already has enough code for xorg.conf mangling, etc.
[08:33] <Mithrandir> tjaalton: what's missing for input hotplug there?
[08:33] <pitti> tjaalton: does that need additional packages which we don't install by default, or something?
[08:33] <tjaalton> pitti: ok, would it be possible to hash it out at UDS, and maybe even get something in 8.04.1? (I know, a new feature, but..)
[08:34] <pitti> tjaalton: yes, I want to talk about jockey and device drivers at UDS anyway (also with the envy guys)
[08:34] <pitti> tjaalton: TBH, I fully expect to update stable releases with new hardware drivers, and thus new jockey handlers
[08:35] <tjaalton> pitti: the wacom input driver is installed by default, but I'm not sure if wacom-tools would be needed. the proposed dexconf-hackery only relied on detecting /dev/input/wacom, so maybe it's enough
[08:35] <pitti> tjaalton: hm; but if everything is already there, why can't it be set up by default then?
[08:36] <pitti> tjaalton: the purpose of interactive installation like jockey (notification, acknowledge, etc.) is mostly to fetch packages from unknown/third-party/non-free locations, etc.
[08:36] <tjaalton> Mithrandir: the driver has had some sort of hotplug support, but not quite something that works nicely with the server, which still has it's own issues
[08:36] <Mithrandir> tjaalton: I have an x61t, so if there's anything I can do to make it work, please tell me.
[08:38] <tjaalton> pitti: AIUI jockey would be needed for detecting a hotplug wacom device, so the dexconf approach would need the device to be attached during install/reconfiguration
[08:38] <pitti> tjaalton: ah, I see what you mean
[08:38] <tjaalton> Mithrandir: ah ok, so hang on then :)
[08:39] <pitti> tjaalton: ATM jockey doesn't have hotplug suport, it only checks at session startup; I do mean to add hotplug support, though
[08:39] <Mithrandir> tjaalton: I've never done actual X driver development, so that might be a bit above my skills, but if it's just testing and twiddling packages and such, I can do that easily.
[08:39] <tjaalton> pitti: yeah that's what occured to me a minute ago..
[08:40] <pitti> tjaalton: gnome-volume-manager has some (limited) support for it, thuogh
[08:40] <pitti> tjaalton: check system -> settings -> removable media and devices, it has keyboards, tablets, etc.
[08:40] <pitti> tjaalton: so we could run a program there
[08:40] <tjaalton> Mithrandir: I think upstream is close to having it sorted out. We should actually have the first decent release for input-hotplug
[08:40] <pitti> tjaalton: depends on how the device appears in hal; you might check gnome-volume-manager -n and see the debug output (and set the program to some dummy shell script)
[08:41] <tjaalton> pitti: oh right, that's one approach
[08:45] <dholbach> "Error deleting openoffice.org-writer2latex - subprocess pre-removal script returned error 1"
[08:46] <dholbach> mvo: ^ I'm doing a ubiquity installation right now - where can I read the terminal output of apt/dpkg? /var/log/dpkg.log and /var/log/apt/term.log don't mention that problem
[08:48] <pitti> o_O
[08:48]  * pitti looks at the quodlibet source and sees
[08:48] <pitti> +         "file:///Sebastian/Droge/please/choke/on/a/bucket/of/cocks", ""):
[08:48] <StevenK> Wow
[08:48] <pitti> slomo: any idea about that?
[08:49] <tjaalton> pitti: so, if the wacom driver is enough to detect the device, then jockey could install wacom-tools
[08:49] <tjaalton> pitti: anyway, I'll reply to Vincenzo about this
[08:50] <dholbach> to me it seems bug 219703 and bug 218246 and bug 200979 should be fixed
[08:50] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 219703 in writer2latex "Writer2latex 0.5-6 fails to install on Hardy ppc" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/219703
[08:50] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 218246 in writer2latex "upgrading writer2latex fails when doing version upgrade to Ubuntu 8.04LTS" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/218246
[08:50] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 200979 in writer2latex "package writer2latex 0.5-6 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 127" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/200979
[08:50] <dholbach> and if it's just by adding "|| true" to all maintainer scripts
[08:50] <dholbach> I get a popup during an ubiquity install because of it
[08:50] <dholbach> that sucks
[08:51] <dholbach> calc: still awake?
[08:54] <pitti> slomo: bug 220907, FYI; I subscribed the community council, too
[08:54] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 220907 in quodlibet "source code heavily insulting" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220907
[08:55] <stgraber> mvo: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/result/1562/15 is the link to bug 218191 intentional or just a typing mistake ?
[08:55] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 218191 in bzr "paramiko.SSHException: Server connection dropped" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/218191
[08:56] <dholbach> pitti: added svn log of the revision that added it
[08:59] <pitti> dholbach: thanks
[09:00] <dholbach> pitti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7824
[09:00] <dholbach> pitti: I get a popup during ubiquity install because of the prerm failing
[09:02] <pitti> dholbach: wow, ubiquity install touches ooo-writer2latex?
[09:02] <dholbach> pitti: I don't know how problematic bug 219703 comment 3 really is, but for the release we should use  "unopkg ... || true"  in the maintainer scripts
[09:02] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 219703 in writer2latex "Writer2latex 0.5-6 fails to install on Hardy ppc" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/219703
[09:03] <dholbach> all open writer2latex bugs are about maintainer scripts failures
[09:03] <dholbach> didn't this occur in any other ubiquity installs for anybody?
[09:04] <pitti> never
[09:04] <dholbach> it was a dvd-amd64-ubiquity-autoresize-german installation
[09:04] <pitti> ah, dvd; that might install more, yes
[09:10] <pitti> soren: hmm, Virtual Machine -> Shutdown broke; it still worked fine last time, now it does nothing
[09:11] <soren> pitti: Install acpid in your guest.
[09:11] <pitti> soren: erm -- this is hanging at the BIOS boot prompt
[09:11] <soren> Shutdown now sends an acpi powerdown event so that you can shut down your guests cleanly without having to log into them.
[09:11] <pitti> soren: there's a bug: after an OS reboot, it fails to boot from the CD-ROM
[09:11] <pitti> after a 'hard' reboot it works again
[09:11] <soren> pitti: That's not a bug :)
[09:11] <soren> Oh.
[09:11] <soren> Er..
[09:11] <pitti> soren: yes, I did the stuff with adding the CD-ROM drive and make it the boot device
[09:12] <pitti> (it's not the single-shot CD-ROM thing)
[09:12] <soren> Well, to forcefully shut down a vm, you need to "destroy" it. It's in the menu.
[09:12] <pitti> so that won't delete my VM, just power it off?
[09:12] <soren> Yes.
[09:12] <soren> It destroys the running state of it.
[09:12] <pitti> destroy sounds dangerous, and non-reversible
[09:12] <pitti> ah
[09:12] <pitti> maybe it should be labelled 'power off' or so :)
[09:13] <soren> YEah, I though about it.
[09:13] <pitti> soren: ok, thanks, that worked
[09:13] <pitti> erk, except that it doesn't really; /me pokes
[09:13] <soren> a) virt-manager is rather well translated, and I'd lose that if I changed it. b) The term is used very consistently in a lot of other places.
[09:14] <pitti> I get gfxboot, select 'boot from first harddisk', then I get some text which is far too fast to read, and then it's off again
[09:14] <pitti> bugger
[09:15] <soren> pitti: When did you create this vm?
[09:15] <pitti> selecting 'boot from hd' in the details works
[09:15] <soren> Oh. Hm..
[09:15] <pitti> soren: about 15 minutes ago, right before I tried a standard desktop install
[09:15] <soren> I've not seen that before.
[09:15] <pitti> me neither
[09:15] <stgraber> mvo: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/result/1562/15 is the link to bug 218191 intentional or just a typing mistake ?
[09:15] <pitti> anyway, good enough workaround for now
[09:15] <soren> How can I reproduce it? Create a vm, destroy it, add the cdrom again, tell it to boot from the cd, start?
[09:16] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 218191 in bzr "paramiko.SSHException: Server connection dropped" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/218191
[09:16] <soren> pitti: Oh, you're trying to boot from the hd? /me is confused
[09:16] <mvo> stratus: let me check
[09:16] <pitti> soren: the install finished, so I want to test it
[09:16] <pitti> soren: usually I always boot from the CD and select "boot from first HD" in the CD's gfxboot menu
[09:17] <pitti> soren: that way I never need to take out the CD
[09:17] <pitti> or change the boot priority
[09:17] <mvo> stgraber: typo, thanks - updated
[09:17] <soren> pitti: Ohh!
[09:18] <soren> pitti: Yeah, that's probably an extboot (kvm bios) problem.
[09:27] <dholbach> pitti: bug 220911 - wdyt?
[09:27] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 220911 in writer2latex "Maintainer scripts of openoffice.org-writer2latex fail" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220911
[09:29] <pitti> dholbach: what is that unopkg anyway? also, that would require new DVD builds, right?
[09:29] <pitti> calc: still awake by any chance? do you know what this unopkg thing is?
[09:30] <pitti> dholbach: as a hackish workaround it would be ok
[09:30] <dholbach> pitti: it handles openoffice extensions
[09:31] <dholbach> pitti: it's pragmatic - I doubt we have the time to dive into ooo code to figure out why unopkg fails :-(
[09:32] <pitti> dholbach: absolutely
[09:33] <dholbach> it'd be nice if somebody confirmed that openoffice.org-writer2latex works with the patch in all kinds of package installation scenarios
[09:34] <seb128> dholbach: is the package working if those commands break?
[09:35] <dholbach> seb128: that's something I guess only calc can answer - maybe doko too
[09:35] <dholbach> doko: what do you think about bug 220911?
[09:35] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 220911 in writer2latex "Maintainer scripts of openoffice.org-writer2latex fail" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220911
[09:35] <seb128> otherwise we should as well drop the package from the DVD for now
[09:35] <dholbach> I don't know if we have any other unopkg calls in any maintainer scripts
[09:36] <pitti> slangasek: still awake? I guess you are not too excited about rebuilding DVDs for bug 220911?
[09:36] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 220911 in writer2latex "Maintainer scripts of openoffice.org-writer2latex fail" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220911
[09:37] <pitti> dholbach: but if that means that all DVD installations fail, we probably have to do it
[09:37] <doko> dholbach: hmm, the better fix would be to depend on openoffice.org-java-common, gij | java-gcj-compat | openjdk-6-jre | java2-runtime
[09:37] <dholbach> openoffice.org-base.preinst
[09:37] <dholbach> openoffice.org-common.list
[09:37] <dholbach> openoffice.org-common.md5sums
[09:37] <dholbach> openoffice.org-common.postinst
[09:37] <dholbach> openoffice.org-common.preinst
[09:37] <dholbach> openoffice.org-core.list
[09:37] <dholbach> openoffice.org-core.md5sums
[09:38] <dholbach> openoffice.org-core.postrm
[09:38] <dholbach> openoffice.org-filter-mobiledev.preinst
[09:38] <dholbach> openoffice.org-java-common.preinst
[09:38] <doko> IMO it's really the missing java stuff, or are openoffice.org-java-common and gij installed on the CD?
[09:38] <dholbach> openoffice.org-officebean.preinst
[09:38] <dholbach> openoffice.org.postinst
[09:38] <dholbach> openoffice.org.preinst
[09:38] <dholbach> openoffice.org-writer2latex.postinst
[09:38] <dholbach> openoffice.org-writer2latex.preinst
[09:38] <dholbach> openoffice.org-writer2latex.prerm
[09:38] <dholbach> openoffice.org-writer.preinst
[09:38] <dholbach> ttf-opensymbol.postinst
[09:38] <dholbach> ttf-opensymbol.postrm
[09:38] <dholbach> that's where unopkg turns up on my installed system
[09:38] <doko> s/CD/DVD/ ?
[09:39] <dholbach> doko: what will realistically be broken on an installed system if unopkg fails?
[09:39] <doko> IMO it's really the missing java stuff, or are openoffice.org-java-common and gij installed on the DVD?
[09:40] <doko> dholbach: ^^^
[09:40] <dholbach> doko: just doing a reinstallation on the dvd, will respond in a sec
[09:41] <doko> To avoid another upload of OOo, it would be better to seed it for the DVD
[09:46] <dholbach> doko: on the booted live image of the dvd, gij and openoffice.org-java-common are installed, not sure if they get installed during the installation process though
[09:47] <doko> dholbach: I don't know either, don't have any DVD test cases assigned ;-)
[09:47] <dholbach> doko: I'll let you know in a sec
[09:47] <mvo_> but if it fails there are certainly some depends wrong?
[09:47] <doko> dholbach: you should be able to Run the letter wizard in writer as well
[09:49] <pitti> doko: it's not OO.o itself, just the writer2latex source
[09:49] <pitti> it doesn't affect CDs, just the DVDs
[09:51] <aragua> hi
[09:51] <doko> pitti: yes, I know, but the better solution would be to add the dependency to writer2latex instead of ignoring the error code
[09:51] <pitti> doko: right, I wasn't questioning that
[09:51] <pitti> if that helps
[09:52] <pitti> weird that this didn't turn up during RC testing
[09:54] <pitti> soren: is it possible somehow to configure a maximum resolution of the VM graphics card?
[09:54] <soren> pitti: Not without patching vgabios.
[09:54] <pitti> with all this jumping around, it is very hard to operate the guest when it has the same resolution as the host
[09:55] <pitti> or, alternatively, a real fullscreen mode
[09:55] <soren> pitti: You can change the x config in the guest, of course.
[09:55] <pitti> soren: sure, I usually do the xrandr thing (prefs -> screen resolution)
[09:55] <pitti> but getting there is hard enough :)
[09:56] <pitti> but that's probably more a VNC viewer (vinagre?) bug
[09:57] <soren> vinagre, virt-viewer, and virt-manager all use gtk-vnc.
[09:58] <soren> So if you're using virt-manager, vinagre has nothing to do with it.
[09:58] <pitti> ah
[10:10] <dholbach> hum... in the second run (de-amd64-dvd-ubiquity-oem-erasedisk) it did not fail
[10:12] <mvo_> thekorn: hey! could you please renew my bughelper-dev membership?
[10:14] <thekorn> mvo_: done
[10:15] <mvo_> thekorn: thanks!
[10:18] <dholbach> cjwatson, evand: oem-config proposed a US keyboard (dvd-de-ubiquity-oem installation) although I chose de everywhere else before - do you know if that's a known bug? do you need any more info?
[10:19] <dholbach> ah, might be bug 219209
[10:19] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 219209 in oem-config "United States keymap suggested for United Kingdom" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/219209
[10:19] <dholbach> nevermind
[10:22] <calc> aiui unopkg usually fails due to lock in root's .openoffice.org2 directory
[10:23] <calc> removing that directory then uninstalling/reinstalling the package in most cases fixes the issue
[10:23] <dholbach> calc: that was during a new installation
[10:23] <pitti> calc: hm, that shouldn't be a problem for fresh ubiquity installations from the DVD, though?
[10:23] <calc> probably not
[10:24] <calc> unopkg is so buggy though that there is a bug on OOo bugtracker to rewrite it as well, so it probably fails for all sorts of reasons :(
[10:24] <dholbach> in any case the maintainer scripts shouldn't fail :/
[10:26] <dholbach> what do we do about it?
[10:26] <calc> dholbach: it also doesn't return reliable return codes :\
[10:26]  * dholbach does another amd64-dvd-ubiquity-de-autoresize installation
[10:26] <calc> i guess the only thing we really can is drop the package from the install
[10:27] <dholbach> doko: what do you think?
[10:27] <calc> it doesn't always fail, but doesn't always suceed either
[10:29] <dholbach> I personally feel that a every-now-and-then "prerm failed - WAAAAAAAAH" popup during the installation should be fixed before the release :-/
[10:30] <doko> sure, dropping it would be the best thing. we can ignore the errors as well. calc: how das w2l behave if it install scripts failed?
[10:38] <calc> doko: not sure, it hasn't failed to install for me before
[10:39] <dholbach> calc, doko: does unopkg work at all? this is on my amd64 normal machine (after installation of writer2latex)
[10:39] <dholbach> daniel@bert:~$ dpkg -l openoffice.org-writer2latex | grep ^ii
[10:39] <dholbach> ii  openoffice.org-writer2latex                0.5-6                                              Writer/Calc to LaTeX/XHTML converter extension for OpenOffice.org
[10:39] <dholbach> daniel@bert:~$ /usr/lib/openoffice/program/unopkg list
[10:39] <dholbach> all deployed user packages:

[10:39] <dholbach> daniel@bert:~$
[10:39]  * calc had thought it only failed on old install cases
[10:40] <calc> dholbach: shows none for me too but i do have writer2latex successfully installed
[10:40] <calc> er i thought i did
[10:41] <calc> looks like i uninstalled it at some point, reinstalling now to test again
[10:42] <dholbach> so either the call in the writer2latex maintainer scripts is broken or unopkg itself
[10:43] <calc> its unopkg aiui, i talked to Rene about it a couple days ago when i saw the first reports about it failing
[10:43] <calc> i don't think he even realized it would fail on a completely fresh install though
[10:45] <calc> Setting up openoffice.org-writer2latex (0.5-6) ...
[10:45] <calc> Adding extension /usr/lib/openoffice/share/extension/install/writer2latex.uno.pkg... done.
[10:45] <dholbach> yes, I got that too
[10:45] <calc> still shows <none> for whatever reason
[10:47] <calc> has support for saving in latex format
[10:48] <calc> hmm still has it even with it removed though, hmm
[10:48] <calc> unless it didn't properly remove
[10:48] <dholbach> unopkg list --shared       has some output though
[10:50] <dholbach> calc: ^
[10:50] <calc> ah
[10:50] <dholbach> so I guess unopkg seems to work fine - it's just the maintainer scripts that fail because of some reason
[10:51] <calc> it doesn't always register properly, which is the problem
[10:52] <calc> hmm, has an idea
[10:52] <pitti> soren: erk; someone apparently seeded virt-viewer to server ship without an MIR
[10:52] <pitti> soren: can you please remove it from the seeds?
[10:53] <pitti> soren: and libvirt-bin binary is still in universe and thus it didn't make it to the server CDs
[10:53] <pitti> soren: I can promote it now, but would we want to rebuild the server ISOs for that?
[10:54]  * calc sees if it will fail to install for him now
[10:55] <calc> well it might not
[10:55] <calc> i wonder if these packages using unopkg need to predepend on the java stuff
[10:55]  * calc isn't sure if unopkg works right without it or not
[10:56] <calc> it looks like it does, unopkg list --shared still returns but is empty since w2l is uninstalled
[10:56] <calc> ok removing all java then reinstalling w2l still made it install properly
[10:57] <pitti> calc: apparenlty hyphen is not used by anything in main, so it wants to go back to universe; didn't you want me to promote it a while ago, for something?
[10:58] <calc> pitti: it should be being used for openoffice.org-hyphenation-en-us(?)
[10:58] <pitti> calc: right, but that itself is built by hyphen, too
[10:58] <calc> i was going to use the lib but once i built with it, found out the lib itself had some bugs that needed to be fixed and was too late to have a new verison synced
[10:58] <pitti> calc: and openoffice.org-hyphenation-en-us has no reverse dependencies anywhere
[10:58] <soren> pitti: I'm not sure. Strictly speaking, that would invalidate the testing that's already been done with the server cd's I support?
[10:59] <pitti> soren: right
[10:59] <soren> s/support/suppose/
[10:59] <calc> ah ok drop it then, it was supposed to be in one of the l-s-e packages aiui
[10:59] <pitti> calc: since that's on the CD, too late now; but WDYT if I seed it to supported now to keep it in main, and we update l-s-en in an SRU?
[10:59] <mvo_> pitti: hm, it maybe not ideal to move it back now because for dapper->hardy upgrade without universe enabled it maybe needed - a big maybe I would have to test to be sure
[11:00] <pitti> mvo_: for 'it' being what?
[11:00] <calc> pitti: yea that would be good
[11:00] <mvo_> openoffice.org-hyphenation (or did I missing something?)
[11:00] <pitti> calc: is there a bug# about it? we should milestone it for .1 then
[11:00] <pitti> mvo_: right, I think above proposal is better anyway
[11:01] <soren> I'm not sure. I'd like to get Rick's opinion.
[11:01] <calc> pitti: language-support-writing-en should have a depends on it
[11:01] <dholbach> grrrrr, didn't fail now
[11:01] <calc> pitti: it was in there for 0409 and was removed for 0410
[11:02] <calc> pitti: it was added/removed due to buggy openoffice.org-hyphenation/hypen interaction
[11:02] <calc> pitti: but those issues have been resolved so we can add it back now
[11:03] <calc> pitti: actually it was added in 0229 then removed 0303 then added in 0409 then removed in 0410, heh ping pong
[11:03] <pitti> calc: I created bug 220949
[11:03] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 220949 in language-support-writing-en "should depend on openoffice.org-hyphenation-en-us " [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220949
[11:03] <pitti> calc: milestoned for 8.04.1
[11:03] <calc> pitti: ok thanks
[11:03] <slomo> pitti: yes, i know that already... joe wreschnig seems to have some personal problems with me since debian bug #421167 (i was responsible for introducing a regression in gstreamer which broke his application)
[11:03] <ubotu> Debian bug 421167 in gstreamer0.10 "quodlibet: fails to start, claiming 'filesrc' cannot be found" [Grave,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/421167
[11:03]  * calc headed back for bed, 5am here
[11:03] <calc> be back in a few hours
[11:04]  * pitti hugs slomo
[11:04] <calc> call me if needed :)
[11:04]  * slomo hugs pitti
[11:05] <pitti> calc: seeded
[11:05] <pitti> calc: sleep well
[11:07]  * dholbach hugs slomo too
[11:08]  * slomo hugs dholbach :)
[11:09] <njpatel> guys, just ran into a pulseaudio bug after an update: music won't play unless your root, the work-around is to run pulseaudio as root. Any ideas?
[11:10] <slomo> pitti, dholbach: well, while we're at it i could as well file this bug in debian, which will probably lead to get it changed upstream too ;)
[11:12] <dholbach> doko, pitti: added a new comment to bug 220911
[11:12] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 220911 in writer2latex "Maintainer scripts of openoffice.org-writer2latex fail" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220911
[11:12] <pitti> dholbach: thanks
[11:13] <dholbach> I'll do another installation and see if I can reproduce it - the syslog should be able to shed light on the order of removal of packages
[11:13] <doko> cjwatson: is there a way to install from a usb stick without having a cdrom connected? the installer insists on a CD ROM driver
[11:18] <ogra> doko, heh, i just added a spec suggestion for USB key install by default :)
[11:19] <laga> are the archives completely frozen now? i seem to recall today 8am UTC, but i'm not sure
[11:21] <pitti> laga: universe, yes; main, pretty much barring installation failure fixes
[11:23] <doko> seb128: the CD burner doesn't offer me anymore the option to burn with a slower speed. is this intended?
[11:24] <dholbach> doko: which java does unopkg use in a standard installation?
[11:25] <seb128> doko: lshal | grep write_speeds
[11:26] <doko> $ lshal | grep write_speeds
[11:26] <doko>   storage.cdrom.write_speeds = {'1764'} (string list)
[11:26] <seb128> doko: ok, so not my bug, dunno if that's hal or linux though
[11:26] <doko> didn't change the drive, did work in gutsy
[11:26] <doko> ok
[11:26] <seb128> doko: maybe pitti has an idea on the issue
[11:27] <seb128> the choices are limited on my boxes too
[11:27] <cjwatson> dholbach: if it isn't clear, the reason a bunch of prerms are run in this context is that DVD ubiquity installs work by copying a huge slew of packages over (including lots of language support packages) and then removing the ones that aren't needed
[11:27] <cjwatson> doko,laga: have either of you read the instructions in the installation guide for this?
[11:27] <cjwatson> err, sorry
[11:27] <cjwatson> doko,ogra: ^--
[11:28] <cjwatson> I do think we should make it *easier* for 8.10 but it is possible
[11:28] <TheMuso> C
[11:28] <cjwatson> doko: https://help.ubuntu.com/7.04/installation-guide/i386/boot-usb-files.html (for 7.04 but should still be valid)
[11:30] <doko> cjwatson: no, just https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick
[11:31] <ogra> cjwatson, i think we should have a script that builds dd'abe daylies :)
[11:32] <ogra> *able
[11:36] <cjwatson> doko: ah, it's a bit different for desktop CDs. I'd advise using the installation-guide method for now because I understand better how to debug that if it goes wrong :)
[11:37] <doko> cjwatson: I was trying to do the iso tests on my new toy :)
[11:37] <ogra> doko, what do you have ?
[11:38] <cjwatson> ogra: I'm concerned about essentially doubling the disk space requirements on cdimage by converting everything to USB images; what I want to do is provide a program for both Linux and Windows that transforms a given CD image into a USB image
[11:38] <cjwatson> we discussed this a bit, informally, at Boston
[11:38] <doko> ogra: TP X61
[11:38] <cjwatson> doko: you said "the installer insists on a CD ROM driver"; was that alternate or desktop?
[11:38] <doko> cjwatson: alternate
[11:38] <doko> after connecting an USB CD ROM, it did want to have the CD
[11:39] <ogra> cjwatson, yeah, right, i remember
[11:39] <ogra> doko, TP == touchscreen ?
[11:40] <doko> ogra, tablet, but no multitouch
[11:40] <ogra> cool
[11:40] <cjwatson> doko: can you try it with the installation-guide method?
[11:40] <ogra> i have a exoc osiris 621 since two week ...
[11:40] <doko> cjwatson: will do
[11:40] <cjwatson> thanks
[11:40] <ogra> touchscreen is cool until you forget about it and want to wipe any dirt off the screen :P
[11:41] <ogra> and suddleny have a wndow hanging on your fingertip :P
[11:43]  * calc couldn't fall back asleep :\
[11:43] <okaratas> hello
[11:43] <calc> too many screwed up hours lately
[11:43] <calc> i'll take a nap later today
[11:45] <cjwatson> pitti: oof, we forgot to sync rescue ...
[11:45] <pitti> cjwatson: yeah, I noticed yesterday night :/
[11:45] <pitti> cjwatson: now it's something for .1, I figure
[11:46] <dholbach> is ubiquity supposed to say "you don't have enough disk space" somewhere?
[11:46] <cjwatson> dholbach: yeah
[11:46] <dholbach> for me it just crashed: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7837
[11:46] <cjwatson> there might be border cases where it doesn't manage it; I noticed something similar during RC testing and filed a bug
[11:46] <dholbach> logs up at http://daniel.holba.ch/install
[11:47] <cjwatson> definitely a bug, you might as well file it
[11:47] <ogra> ogra@osiris:~$ lsusb -t
[11:47] <ogra> cannot open /proc/bus/usb/devices, No such file or directory (2)
[11:47] <ogra> uuuh
[11:47] <ogra> why does that look in /proc ?
[11:47] <dholbach> cjwatson: on ubiquity itself?
[11:47] <pitti> ogra: ugh, bug
[11:48] <cjwatson> dholbach: yes
[11:48] <ogra> pitti, yep
[11:48] <dholbach> cjwatson: thanks
[11:50] <ogra> pitti, bug #220962
[11:50] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 220962 in ubuntu "lsusb -t still searches in /proc for devices" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220962
[11:51] <dholbach> hi slangase` :)
[11:51] <calc> dholbach: i don't think debian 468202 is exactly the same issue, since that is dealing with upgrade problems (afaict)
[11:51] <ubotu> Debian bug 468202 in openoffice.org-writer2latex "subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Grave,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/468202
[11:51] <dholbach> calc: I added another comment about a missing pre-depends
[11:51] <doko> cjwatson: this is nasty: # zcat boot.img.gz > /dev/sda1  (maybe write /dev/sdN1 and explain what device to choose)?
[11:51] <calc> ok reading the rest of the lp bug
[11:52] <dholbach> cjwatson: filed it as bug 220961
[11:52] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 220961 in ubiquity "ubiquity crashes instead of notifying the user of not enough disk space" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220961
[11:52] <cjwatson> doko: sure, installation-guide bug?
[11:52] <calc> dholbach: hmm well not sure if that was doko or me (or both) that thought it might be ooo-java-common but it depends on it and it worked with my purging all java and doing a reinstall
[11:53] <cjwatson> calc: it'll be the order in which ubiquity happens to purge things, I should think
[11:53] <calc> cjwatson: hmm?
[11:53] <dholbach> I'll try harder to reproduce bug 220911
[11:53] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 220911 in writer2latex "Maintainer scripts of openoffice.org-writer2latex fail" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220911
[11:54] <calc> dholbach: it could be the ooo-common issue though if unopkg isn't fully working yet when w2l is installed
[11:54] <calc> dholbach: but the error people are getting is that the binary failed, which yea its unpacked at that point, but maybe not good enough(?)
[11:54]  * ogra wonders if that amd64 qemu install will ever finish ... sitting at grub install at 50% since 1h (but isnt crashed)
[11:55] <calc> dholbach: when i did my testing i didn't test with all of OOo removed just all of the java bits and all of the system java removed as well
[11:55] <dholbach> calc: without any debug output that's very hard to say
[11:55] <calc> dholbach: yea
[11:55] <calc> i'll do a complete purge of OOo and reinstall and see if i can trigger it
[11:56] <dholbach> still the pre-depends should make sense, no?
[11:57] <calc> dholbach: yea probably so
[11:59] <cjwatson> calc: exact order of removal could easily affect whether unopkg has all the stuff it needs to work right
[11:59] <cjwatson> calc: the bug is on package *removal*, not installation
[11:59] <calc> cjwatson: oh?
[12:00] <cjwatson> calc: ubiquity installs everything on the livefs and then removes the stuff it doesn't need, which includes language support packages, which will include a bunch of OOo stuff
[12:00] <calc> i thought they were speaking of it failing to install when installing w2l from dvd
[12:00] <cjwatson> calc: the "installation" from the livefs consists of copying the livefs to the installed system, file by file, and then removing packages that aren't necessary
[12:00] <cjwatson> very few packages are actually installed using dpkg in that environment
[12:02] <calc> so unopkg failed in removal of w2l then?
[12:02] <dholbach> yes in the prerm
[12:03] <calc> ah ok
[12:03] <calc> still doesn't make sense but perhaps slightly more than an install failing
[12:04] <dholbach> right now I only saw this in 1 of 4 dvd installations but still I find it highly problematic to have popup going "prerm X failed"
[12:04] <calc> dholbach: yea
[12:05] <dholbach> I know that my mom would think about it
[12:05] <mvo|dsltrouble> caci: there is a bit of the dpkg log in the bugreport (german though)
[12:08] <calc> heh looks like not all of the strings are properly translated to german :)
[12:10] <caci> mvo|dsltrouble: ?
[12:11] <calc> caci: improper nick completion
[12:11]  * mvo|dsltrouble goes and tries to find a better network connection
[12:11] <calc> i think i will download the dvd to play with a bit
[12:12] <calc> this was seen on the ubuntu dvd, correct?
[12:13]  * calc is going to download the i386 dvd and test it a bit, sees in the bug report it was on amd64 dvd
[12:14] <calc> 3.5hr to download, ouch
[12:16] <ogra> calc, if you have desktop and alternate there, cat'ing alternate to the end of the desktop iso and using that as base for an rsync gains you something
[12:17] <cjwatson> mvo__: just to confirm, the plan for upgrades is to update meta-release for 7.10 users as soon as we release 8.04, and meta-release-lts for 6.06 users when we release 8.04.1?
[12:17] <calc> ogra: i just have the kubuntu cd's right now :\
[12:18] <calc> i will be getting a larger hard drive soon for my desktop and so will have a local mirror setup soon, whee :)
[12:19] <calc> then i could do jigdo+rsync i think
[12:19] <calc> does that generally work?
[12:21] <stgraber> calc: http://www.sgserv.net/mirror/ may be faster
[12:21] <calc> stgraber: already saturated my link, only can do ~ 300KB/s due to slow dsl
[12:21]  * calc wishes he could get FiOS in the area
[12:25] <calc> http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=79648 <- whee :)
[12:25] <ubotu> OpenOffice.org bug 79648 in framework "do not use lock file when installing bundled extensions" [Defect,Started: ]
[12:25] <calc> it looks like that may be the issue and if so is targeted for 3.0
[12:28] <calc> i added to the report to let them know to not to defer it past 3.0 if at all possible, heh
[12:28] <calc> since 3.0 will go in 8.10
[12:36] <ubuntudemon> Hey. Can I do anything to provide more information to this bug ? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/220640 And does anybody know how to use ipw3945 with Hardy's kernel ?
[12:36] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 220640 in linux "[hardy] iwl3945 + wpasupplicant fails to connect to university network. regression from gutsy (ipw3945+wpasupplicant)" [Undecided,New]
[12:45] <calc> why do bugs show up as 'status tracked in hardy' is that a new feature of lp?
[12:45]  * calc is pretty sure he didn't move the bug to just hardy
[12:45] <pitti> calc: that happens if you nominate a bug for hardy, while it is still the dev release
[12:46] <pitti> that's not new
[12:47] <calc> er i don't think i nominated it
[12:47] <calc> i just said 'fix this here also' for openoffice.org
[12:47] <calc> on bug 220911
[12:47] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 220911 in writer2latex "Maintainer scripts of openoffice.org-writer2latex fail" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220911
[12:47] <calc> and it made it automatically as hardy
[12:50] <calc> looks like caolan has a workaround for the problem
[12:50] <calc> i can add it for a 8.04.1 update
[12:50] <calc> he creates a userdir to use for the lockfile and during the install process then kills it later
[12:51] <calc> so there is no chance for stale lockfile or root owned lockfile, etc when using the --shared bit
[12:58] <calc> dholbach: i think i found a way to fix the issue for 8.04.1
[12:59] <calc> dholbach: and looks like it may be properly fixed upstream for 8.10 (3.0)
[13:02] <soren> pitti: Did you promote libvirt-bin?
[13:02] <pitti> soren: yes
[13:02] <soren> pitti: Ok, thanks.
[13:03] <calc> stupid packet loss
[13:04] <cjwatson> sigh, you'd have thought that being up-to-date with yesterday's DVD image would help :-/
[13:05] <calc> how does 8.04.1 work you just upload to proposed then it propagates into 8.04.1?
[13:05] <pitti> calc: normal SRUs, yes; -updates will be icnluded into .1, not -proposed
[13:05] <pitti> calc: (and -security, of course)
[13:05] <calc> pitti: ok
[13:06] <calc> so will we have test dvds built for 8.04.1 regularly, need some way to test this fix that is likely to explode
[13:06] <soren> pitti: I suppose this will be done, by putting a hardy-updates directory on the new iso's?
[13:06] <soren> pitti: And not by merging the updates into hardy proper?
[13:07] <pitti> soren: the CD build scripts just have -updates and -security repos enabled and take whatever is most current (roughly)
[13:07] <pitti> soren: I don't know the precise inner workings of those scripts, though
[13:07] <cjwatson> calc: not sure exactly how regularly, but probably occasionally, yes
[13:07] <calc> ok :)
[13:07] <soren> pitti: Ok, no worries. I was just wondering :)
[13:07] <pitti> soren, calc: oh, for test CDs we can use the -proposed versions, too, BTW
[13:07] <pitti> but we won't for the released .1
[13:08] <calc> i don't see the bug myself but it is lockfile issue so test DVDs for users to test this would be very helpful :)
[13:08] <calc> i'm downloading the current dvd to see if i can get it to fail for me from that
[13:08] <cjwatson> soren: IIRC (it's been a while since I wrote this) it gets merged onto dists/hardy/ on the CDs, but it definitely doesn't get merged into dists/hardy/ in the archive
[13:09] <soren> cjwatson: Ah, ok. Thanks for clearing that up :)
[13:15] <soren> pitti: I'm on the phone with Rick. He thinks we should respin the server cd's to get libvirt-bin on there.
[13:16] <pitti> soren: ok; you guys will manage to re-test them in time?
[13:16] <soren> pitti: What is "in time" exactly?
[13:17] <pitti> soren: by tomorrow, final release; i. e. ideally by today evening
[13:17] <soren> pitti: Heheh..
[13:17] <soren> pitti: Which timezone?
[13:17] <soren> pitti: Unless it's an Australian one, I'm almost willing to bet we can retest everything by this evening.
[13:18] <pitti> soren: late European, I'd say; not clearly defined :)
[13:19] <pitti> soren: ok, give the word, and I press enter
[13:19] <soren> I think that's doable. We don't have *that* many test cases. heno?
[13:19] <pitti> 10
[13:19] <soren> heno: Any objections to respinning the server cd's?
[13:20] <pitti> soren: I started the respin; we don't have to use them, we can always change back the 'current' symlink :)
[13:20] <heno> I don't like it because it gives us zero margin -- but retesting the complete set of server CDs in time should be no problem
[13:20] <pitti> soren: so you can look at the new image, check libvirt-bin, and then we decide
[13:21] <pitti> heno: since we can always take the current image, and it is fully tested, just producing an alternative doesn't commit us to it, I'd say
[13:21] <heno> let's set aside the current ones and use those if they break badly
[13:21] <heno> pitti: indeed :)
[13:21] <heno> they have complete coverage now
[13:22] <Hobbsee> heno: if it all breaks, you just get no sleep tonight.
[13:22] <heno> soren: so yeah, I'm fine with that
[13:22] <calc> lol
[13:22] <soren> pitti: Ok, go. :)
[13:22] <heno> that too
[13:22] <stgraber> Server is usually one of the first image to be entirely tested, a standard server install takes like 10 minutes here
[13:22] <calc> Hobbsee: i've been so low on sleep that my body seem to have forgotten how to do it
[13:22] <xivulon> heno, for the first kernel upgrade or anything that would involve update-initramfs or update-grub after final, would it possible to have a procedure in place so that the changes are tested on loopinstallations (wubi) before release?
[13:23] <calc> Hobbsee: i woke up at 4:30am after ~ 4-5hr sleep and couldn't go back to sleep
[13:23] <heno> xivulon: sure. could you email me and davmor2 about that to remind us?
[13:23] <Amaranth> Heh, sounds like me
[13:24] <Amaranth> I randomly sleep 4 hours sometime during a 30 hour time span then start again
[13:24] <xivulon> heno, will do
[13:25]  * calc bbl, getting breakfast
[13:26] <Hobbsee> calc: ouch
[13:26] <zul> my wife would never let me do that
[13:30] <pitti> heno, soren: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-server/daily/20080423.2/, have at it
[13:31] <pitti> soren: libvirt-bin is there now
[13:31] <soren> pitti: Thanks muchlyu.
[13:31] <soren> muchly, even.
[13:31] <pitti> soren: I'll add that to the tracker, ok?
[13:32] <pitti> (done)
[13:34]  * stgraber rsyncs
[13:34] <soren> If any of you guys want to subscribe me to bugs or assign bugs to me (and I know you do), my launchpad is no longer "shawarma", but "soren".
[13:39] <pitti> soren: last time I did that I caught a different soren (Hauberg, not you)
[13:39] <soren> pitti: Precisely.  I got him to scooch over to ~hauberg and I got ~soren. Woo!
[13:40] <pitti> aah
[13:49] <doko> why does "Computing the new partitions" take so much time? LVM/entire disk install ...
[13:52] <ogra> doko, with encryption ?
[13:52] <ogra> that zeroes out the disk first
[13:53] <cjwatson> ogra: not any more, not by default
[13:53] <ogra> ah, k
[13:53] <ogra> i did try my last one some days ago
[13:53] <cjwatson> doko: partman is not as efficient as it could be
[13:53] <doko> ogra: no, encyrption was not offered (network install)
[13:54] <cjwatson> going through and optimising partman is something we need to do for ubiquity, but obviously needs vast care
[13:58] <calc> is there a reason it doesn't offer encryption install for desktop cd?
[13:59] <TheInfinity> calc: because a stable gui for this is not coded until now
[13:59] <calc> ok
[14:10] <doko> don't test "hardy" images which you download from https://help.ubuntu.com/7.04/installation-guide/i386/boot-usb-files.html :-/
[14:11] <seb128> doko: why?
[14:11] <seb128> doko: had an issue using those?
[14:11] <slangase`> pitti: uh.  does that seriously break all DVD installs?
[14:12] <seb128> (not that I want to try those)
[14:12] <soren> seb128: "Hardy" is not spelled "7.04" :)
[14:12] <seb128> soren: ah ;-)
[14:12] <seb128> soren: good point indeed ;-)
[14:12] <soren> ;)
[14:13] <cjwatson> doko: sorry, should have warned you
[14:13] <doko> but the feisty install still works =)
[14:13] <soren> doko: That's good to know :)
[14:15] <seb128> does anybody know if there is a bug about usplash screen being scrambled on shutdown on amd64?
[14:16]  * calc lol after reading above
[14:17] <johanbr> seb128: Could be https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/usplash/+bug/127280
[14:17] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 127280 in usplash "uSplash shutdown screen corrupt post nVidia restricted drivers installation" [Undecided,Invalid]
[14:18] <pitti> slangasek: not all of them
[14:18] <seb128> johanbr: the card using is an ati one on this box, so not likely
[14:18] <pitti> slangasek: it happens far too often, though
[14:18] <slangasek> pitti: then which ones does it break?
[14:19] <pitti> slangasek: it seems to depend on sun rays and other random stuff :/
[14:38] <doko> hmm, grub Error 25, disk read error
[14:46] <cjwatson> mdke: did you mail a 7.10 installation guide to Matt Nuzum, or did I dream it? I seem to have lost the mail
[14:46] <cjwatson> oh, never mind, found it
[14:51] <Mithrandir> soren: how can I get from virt-manager what running kvm with -redir tcp:2222::22 gives me?
[14:52] <Mithrandir> (forward host port 2222 to guest port 22)
[14:52] <soren> Mithrandir: You can't.
[14:52] <Mithrandir> soren: shame, that makes it massively less useful.
[14:53] <soren> Mithrandir: You can bridge the guest onto your network, though.
[14:53] <Mithrandir> well, I could do that, but, meh, ugh, gah.
[14:53] <Mithrandir> then I can't have root passwords like "abcd" any more.
[14:54] <Mithrandir> I guess I could do that, lock the root account and use shosts or ssh keys.
[15:02]  * calc bbl, try to get more sleep
[15:19] <pitti> hmm$ dchroot -c dapper -- lsb_release -d
[15:19] <pitti> Description:Ubuntu 6.06.2 LTS
[15:19] <pitti> $ lsb_release -d
[15:19] <pitti> Description:Ubuntu 8.04
[15:19] <pitti> shouldn't it say "LTS"?
[15:19] <pitti> cjwatson, slangasek: ^
[15:20] <Keybuk> pitti: arguably no
[15:20] <Keybuk> since only two flavours are LTS
[15:20] <pitti> ah, only .1 will be LTS?
[15:20] <Keybuk> Kubuntu won't be an LTS, neither will Xubuntu, Ubuntu Mobile, Ubuntu Studio, etc.
[15:20] <slangasek> I like Keybuk's explanation, it's way better than the excuses I would have to give :P
[15:21] <slangasek> is xubuntu dapper an "LTS" either, though?
[15:22] <Keybuk> I never really liked sticking that in the version number anyway ;)
[15:23] <Keybuk> it's 8.04, LTS is just a moniker for the extra maintenance and support terms offered by Canonical
[15:24] <aragua> http://releases.ubuntu.com/releases/edubuntu/8.04/
[15:24] <aragua> Edubuntu 8.04 LTS (Hardy Heron) Release Candidate
[15:25] <aragua> sorry, copypaste bug
[15:32] <cjwatson> that's a good point, is Edubuntu (err, should be Ubuntu Education Edition now, I'll change that) supposed to be LTS? I forget
[15:32] <cjwatson> mdz: remind me?
[15:34] <ogra> dapper
[15:34] <ogra> was
[15:34] <ogra> so i guess 3 years should apply here as well
[15:35] <mdz> cjwatson: on the phone, but I do care
[15:35] <pitti> seb128: FYI, I just tried to salvage the retracers, but somehow fakechroot is almost completely broken; I guess I need to poke that first :/
[15:36] <ogra> wow, scary NM errors on reboot with an ubiquity-only install
[15:37] <seb128> pitti: ok
[15:52] <doko> Riddell: question from a KDE ignorant: how do I enter sleep mode / suspend to disk? (KDE4)
[15:55] <pitti> calc, asac: mozilla-openoffice.org -- seed or demote? do we want this?
[15:57] <calc> pitti: isn't it already in universe?
[15:57] <calc> pitti: was it seeded before?
[15:58] <pitti> calc: it wants to go to universe, is in main still
[15:58] <pitti> calc: it was in universe until gutsy
[15:58] <calc> oh ok
[15:59] <pitti> demote then, if you don't particularly care?
[15:59] <calc> i don't think we have enough room to seed at least onto the cd?
[15:59] <pitti> calc: no, not on the CD; supported at most
[15:59]  * pitti demotes
[15:59] <calc> oh ok
[16:00] <pitti> calc: openoffice.org-evolution has the same problem, but I guess we want to keep that?
[16:00] <calc> yea
[16:00] <pitti> it has been in main forever
[16:00] <pitti> apparently it was depended on by -desktop in the past
[16:00] <calc> well half supported source is a bit useless?
[16:00] <pitti> so I'll add it to supported
[16:01]  * calc isn't sure why sources can be split between main/universe since support is really on a source level, right?
[16:01] <calc> at least as far as support is concerned its mostly for security fixes
[16:02] <Riddell> doko: kmenu->leave->hibernate
[16:09] <calc> can someone add 8.10 to the milestone list?
[16:10] <Mithrandir> calc: no, not yet.
[16:18] <superm1> pitti, will you still be able to switch sections on a package in universe w/ it being frozen?  The one that i mentioned to you the other day (bug 220071) has been generating some noise on upgraders.
[16:18] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 220071 in myththemes "mythtv-themes dependency problem on upgrade" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220071
[16:18] <pitti> superm1: can do, but how can a sectio matter so much?
[16:19] <superm1> metapackages get recommends installed
[16:19] <superm1> whereas other sections don't
[16:19] <pitti> ah, that would be it
[16:20] <pitti> so it should get moved to metapackages?
[16:20] <superm1> yeah
[16:20] <superm1> just the single binary package (mythtv-themes)
[16:21] <pitti> superm1: done
[16:21] <superm1> thanks a bunch
[16:21] <alex_joni> is there a way to switch desktop effects off by default?
[16:22] <alex_joni> I'm setting up a custom LiveCD, and would like the installed systems (and the LiveCD) to have desktop effects switched off
[16:23] <ivoks> sabayon?
[16:24] <ivoks> alex_joni: try with sabayon
[16:24] <alex_joni> sabayon?
[16:24] <seb128> that's not likely a good way to do that no
[16:24]  * alex_joni googles
[16:25] <ivoks> seb128: no?
[16:25] <seb128> ivoks: really not, no
[16:25] <ivoks> ok
[16:25] <ivoks> sorry for misleading
[16:25] <_MMA_> alex_joni: You could set a gcong key. Set /desktop/gnome/applications/window_manager/default to: /usr/bin/metacity
[16:25] <seb128> ivoks: sabayon is going to create a custom user profile and extra gconf keys where you just need to change on key
[16:25] <_MMA_> s/﻿gcong/gconf
[16:25] <alex_joni> _MMA_: cool, will look at that
[16:29] <alex_joni> gconftool-2 --direct --config-source xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.defaults --type strinc --set /desktop/gnome/applications/window_manager/default "/usr/bin/metacity" ?
[16:29] <alex_joni> _MMA_: something like that?
[16:30] <doko> Riddell: I don't see an Hibernate option, while the Ubuntu install does show it.
[16:32] <_MMA_> alex_joni: Looks correct.
[16:32] <Riddell> doko: k-menu->leave->anything->hold down mouse on the centre button on the dialogue that pops up?
[16:32] <alex_joni> _MMA_: obviously without the string/strinc typo.. ok will try, thanks a bunch
[16:38] <doko> Riddell: this is no UI, that is !§%$§$ turned off the computer two time before I got it ;-)
[16:39] <doko> but it looks really well ;-P
[16:40] <doko> and doesn't work ...
[16:45] <asac> pitti: ack. demote
[17:17] <cody-somerville> cjwatson, Have you looked at bug #220817
[17:17] <cody-somerville> ?
[17:17] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 220817 in xubuntu-meta "Xubuntu Hardy: ubiquity installs Open Office during installation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220817
[17:19] <cjwatson> cody-somerville: unfixable for hardy, AFAICS
[17:21] <slangasek> cody-somerville: what part of OOo is getting pulled in, precisely?
[17:21] <cjwatson> as far as I can see it *should* just be some help/l10n packages and -common
[17:21] <cjwatson> but it's possible something went wrong
[17:22]  * slangasek nods
[17:22]  * cody-somerville cries.
[17:22] <cody-somerville> What changed to make this start occuring?
[17:22] <cody-somerville> *occurring
[17:22] <cjwatson> it's also possible somebody overreacted to seeing openoffice.org-something in the progress bar ;-)
[17:22] <cjwatson> cody-somerville: been there forever
[17:23] <cjwatson> ubiquity might be more competently installing language-support-* now, but that's about it
[17:24]  * cody-somerville shall research more.
[17:26] <slangasek> "apt-get install language-support-ca" gives me openoffice.org-l10n-ca openoffice.org-l10n-common, nothing else
[17:26] <ogra> language-support-de Depends: gimp-help-de, openoffice.org-help-de, openoffice.org-l10n-de, thunderbird-locale-de
[17:26] <slangasek> ah, de pulls in quite a bit more, yes
[17:27] <slangasek> though still only -common and -core, which seems to exclude the apps themselves
[17:27] <ogra> openoffice.org-help-de Depends: openoffice.org-l10n-de, openoffice.org-writer | language-support-translations-de
[17:27] <ogra> hmm
[17:27] <ogra> the last one should probably be the other way round
[17:28] <slangasek> ogra: no, it's right
[17:28] <slangasek> it reads as "install openoffice.org-writer as a dependency, unless installed as part of language-support-translation-de"
[17:28] <ogra> ah, k, thx
[17:29] <ogra> indeed language-support-translations-de should be there anyway
[17:29]  * calc had thought he fixed that
[17:29]  * calc looks at the bug to see what it is
[17:30] <calc> ah nothing useful in the bug report, /me reads scrollback
[17:30] <ogra> calc, all fine
[17:31] <ogra> i guess the user saw openoffice.org-l10n-$lang rushing by and screamed
[17:31] <cody-somerville> openoffice.org-core, -common, -help-en-gb, -help-en-us, hyphenation,-l10n-common, -l10n-en-gb, -l10n-en-za, -style-human, -thesaurus-en-au, -thesaurus-en-us
[17:32] <cody-somerville> so it isn't too bad
[17:32] <calc> ooo-help-de shouldn't be installing -core
[17:32] <ogra> -core would be wrong ...
[17:34] <cjwatson> Package: openoffice.org-thesaurus-de
[17:34] <cjwatson> Depends: openoffice.org-core (>= 1.9), dictionaries-common (>= 0.10) | openoffice.org-updatedicts
[17:34] <cjwatson> likewise -thesaurus-de-ch
[17:34] <calc> i don't see why so much got pulled in for cody-somerville though
[17:35] <cjwatson> openoffice.org-common Depends: openoffice.org-core
[17:35] <calc> in particular i don't know why -common -core -style-human got installed for him
[17:35] <calc> to others are due to language packs
[17:36] <cjwatson> hmm, yeah, what's going on there
[17:36] <calc> openoffice.org-thesaurus-de is part of openthesaurus which appears to need ubuntu specific changes
[17:37] <calc> the other thesaurus packages and they are part of openoffice.org-dictionaries which i did merge
[17:37] <calc> er /and/i looked at and/
[17:37] <cjwatson> yeah, I don't see anything in cody-somerville's list that should pull in -common either, if language-support-* are being installed
[17:37] <cjwatson> it could be a bug in ubiquity's python-apt-based resolution algorithm, though I rather hope not
[17:38] <calc> maybe some bad seed for Xubuntu?
[17:38] <cody-somerville> It isn't seeded
[17:38] <calc> hmm then its got to be something confused about what it should be installing
[17:38] <calc> at least all the depends lines of the above packages look right
[17:39] <shane_> hi all
[17:39] <cjwatson> I'm grabbing the Xubuntu daily now, but it'll take a while
[17:39] <cjwatson> hi shane_
[17:40] <cody-somerville> shane_ is the reporter of bug #220817
[17:40] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 220817 in xubuntu-meta "Xubuntu Hardy: ubiquity installs Open Office during installation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220817
[17:40] <calc> shane_: will it let you remove the -core -common -style-human packages without causing a mess?
[17:40] <ogra> ogra@osiris:~$ apt-cache rdepends openoffice.org-thesaurus-en-gb

[17:40] <ogra> ogra@osiris:~$ apt-cache rdepends openoffice.org-thesaurus-de
[17:40] <ogra> openoffice.org-thesaurus-de
[17:40] <ogra> Reverse Depends:
[17:40] <ogra>   language-support-writing-de
[17:40] <ogra> hmm
[17:40] <ogra> language-support-writing-de is depended on by language-support-de
[17:41] <ogra> so the dep cjwatson pointed out before pull in -common then but inly on non en-gb
[17:41] <ogra> *only
[17:42] <shane_> calc: it requires that language-support-en, -support-translations-en, -support-writing-en be removed...
[17:42] <calc> er there is no en-gb in my apt-cache(?)
[17:42] <calc> shane_: interesting
[17:42] <ogra> calc, hmm, right, i wonder where apt-cache search got it from
[17:42] <cjwatson> ogra: I think we've established that -de is different here
[17:43] <ogra> ogra@osiris:~$ apt-cache search openoffice.org-thesaurus|grep gb
[17:43] <ogra> openoffice.org-l10n-en-gb - English_british language package for OpenOffice.org
[17:43] <calc> -de is known broken
[17:43] <calc> -en should work
[17:44] <calc> ok i'm going to purge out OOo here and see what i can do to make it only install the required bits
[17:45] <calc> maybe i can find out why it picks the others
[17:46] <cjwatson> calc: I can reproduce it in a debootstrapped chroot
[17:47] <calc> cjwatson: ah ok
[17:47] <cjwatson> just trying to narrow it down from there
[17:47] <calc> ok
[17:47] <shane_> calc: language-support-translations-en, -support-writing-en depend on some OO packages...
[17:47] <cjwatson> (don't let me stop you)
[17:47] <calc> shane_: yes, it should be installing the l10n related packages, but those shouldn't require the rest of OOo to be installed
[17:47] <cjwatson> shane_: we know that, but those packages are supposed to have alternative dependencies on language-support-* to prevent OOo being mandatory)
[17:48] <shane_> ok
[17:48]  * calc building a chroot as well
[17:49] <calc> cjwatson: does it need extra special logic to make it not install by default as opposed to allow removal of OOo?
[17:49] <cjwatson> calc: don't understand the question?
[17:50] <calc> cjwatson: eg for this
[17:50] <calc> Depends: openoffice.org-common (>= 1:2.4.0) | language-support-translations-en, openoffice.org-common (<< 1:2.4.0.1) | language-support-translations-en, openoffice.org-l10n-common (>= 1:2.4.0)
[17:50] <calc> does it have to do something special to not install openoffice.org-common but instead just leave it with the language-support-translations-en ?
[17:50] <cjwatson> that *ought* to be sufficient, given that language-support-translations-en is being installed and should satisfy those alternatives
[17:50] <cjwatson> if it isn't, it's my contention that it's an apt bug
[17:50] <calc> ah ok
[17:50] <ogra> unless the deps are resolved wrongly
[17:51] <ogra> heh
[17:51] <cjwatson> the way it's supposed to operate (AIUI) is to mark the top-level packages for installation and then, for each broken package, iterate through its dependencies and resolve any that aren't satisfied by trying to install alternatives in turn
[17:52] <cjwatson> the fact that language-support-translations-en is already there up the tree ought to stop it doing anything with those items
[17:52] <calc> ok
[17:52] <cjwatson> but since it involves some somewhat circular logic this might break
[17:53] <ogra> cjwatson, i had something similar with the intel tpm server when adding libpg-java to the deps (Depends: java-gcj-compat | java1-runtime | java2-runtime) pulled in gcj stuff all the time even though java2-runtime was installed
[17:53] <ogra> dropping the dep didnt want to do that anymore
[17:54] <ogra> it sounds somewhat related
[17:56] <zoredache> cjwatson: you said that there are alt depends on language-support-?? to preven things from OOo being installed?   the language-support-en depends on several openoffice packages
[17:57] <calc> zoredache: which ones... you mean the l10n ones that are supposed to be installed?
[17:57] <ogra> zoredache, only translation stuff ...
[17:57] <calc> zoredache: read scrollback
[17:57] <cjwatson> zoredache: drill down to the next level of dependencies and you should see what I mean
[17:58] <calc> zoredache: things like openoffice.org-l10n-en-gb are supposed to be installed, those aren't supposed to be pulling in openoffice.org-common though
[17:59] <zoredache> that, and I should make sure I am looking at the correct release...
[17:59] <ogra> heh
[17:59]  * calc will be glad once he has a local mirror, building chroots won't take forever
[18:00] <cjwatson> I reassigned the bug to apt
[18:00] <cjwatson> dinnertime
[18:02] <_MMA_> cjwatson: Can this be something we try to sort at UDS? Language support and it's depends, how it's structured? Seems to be a bit of a mess for Xubuntu, Studio and derivatives that would like to lose OO.o/Firefox.
[18:03] <calc> _MMA_: appears to be just a bug in apt at this point
[18:03] <calc> _MMA_: the potential to lose the openoffice.org-l10n stuff as well more or less depends on apt recommends handling which got dropped for hardy
[18:04] <_MMA_> calc: This case yes. But there are still other issues surrounding how the language support is done.
[18:04] <calc> if we installed recommends by default then we could seed the ooo l10n where it is wanted and it would get installed but not on the others since it wouldn't be on their cds
[18:05] <calc> which was what i was wanting to do for hardy but apt recommends didn't make it in time
[18:05] <calc> otherwise we would probably need language packs on a per derivative basis
[18:05] <_MMA_> Isn't gobuntu still pulling Firefox?
[18:06] <shane_> calc: my 2 cents... isnt the fact that the l10n packages depend on -common the whole prob? why can we just remove this dependency?
[18:06]  * calc doesn't know about firefox
[18:06] <calc> i'm OOo maintainer so that is why i know about that bot
[18:06] <calc> er bit
[18:06] <_MMA_> That's what I mean about "other issues".
[18:07] <ogra> shane_, they dont depend on common thats the prob here :)
[18:07] <ogra> shane_, "openoffice.org-common (>= 2.0) | language-support-writing-en"
[18:07] <calc> shane_: well it might, but apt shouldn't be installing it at all currently so there is a bug that isn't OOo's fault ;)
[18:07] <ogra> thats an "OR" dependency and the latter should already be there
[18:07] <calc> shane_: what ogra said above :)
[18:08] <ogra> the probem is the dependency resolution, not the dependency
[18:08] <calc> the | or breakage is probably causing other problems as well
[18:08] <shane_> ah ok... i getit
[18:08] <ogra> right, that smells rather evil
[18:08] <_MMA_> ﻿calc: But yes. We (Studio, Xubuntu) were thinking about making an alt language support package that we could seed without unwanted bits. But there still will be other dependencies to work out. Hence me wanting a UDC chat. :)
[18:09] <_MMA_> *UDS
[18:09] <ogra> _MMA_, if apt supports recommends that should all be solved easily in intrepid
[18:09] <calc> _MMA_: probably would be better to talk to mvo about getting recommends into intrepid then that probably wouldn't be needed
[18:09] <calc> _MMA_: we could then demote OOo/firefox/etc into recommends (i think)
[18:09] <calc> of course depending on how recommends installation is handled it might not solve it
[18:10] <_MMA_> Right.
[18:10] <calc> if we treat recommends as should be installed when you get network access then it wouldn't solve the problem
[18:10] <calc> _MMA_: so if a UDS session about recommends pops up you should go to it :)
[18:10] <calc> _MMA_: and drag me along
[18:10] <_MMA_> Yep. :)
[18:10] <_MMA_> I still wonder how all the "free-formness" is gonna work. I guess we'll see.
[18:11] <calc> free-form?
[18:12]  * calc thought the UDS was going to be set more in stone to avoid the meetings getting bumped like last time
[18:12] <calc> caused lots of confusion at UDS Boston
[18:12] <_MMA_> calc: Keybuk mentioned no specs will be marked for Prague. Something like there will be a white board to make the schedule daily.
[18:13] <calc> ah ok
[18:13] <calc> well as long as it doesn't change in the middle of the day it should be fine
[18:14] <calc> or in the middle of a meeting ;)
[18:14] <_MMA_> The rational being the driver pretty much has their mind made up already. Maybe he can jump in and explain better.
[18:15] <Keybuk> the UDS will be both
[18:16] <Keybuk> the platform, desktop, server, etc. teams (canonical and community) have already drawn up the lists of topics they want to discuss
[18:16] <Keybuk> and will schedule those by hand before the event
[18:16] <Keybuk> other rooms will be available throughout the event for free-form scheduling
[18:16] <mjg59> Keybuk: Hm. Do you know where those discussions took place?
[18:18] <pwrquest> i'm running hardy preview, and i've run updates. Does this mean i'll have hardy stable when it comes out? Or do i have to download the ISO and install all over again?
[18:18] <Keybuk> mjg59: within the teams
[18:19] <calc> pwrquest: if you updated in the past couple days it should be the same as hardy final
[18:19] <_MMA_> pwrquest: You're fine. Just update.
[18:19] <Keybuk> it's probably worth noting that only two of the teams have returned list of topics so far ;)
[18:19] <Keybuk> so if you haven't seen discussion from kernel, server, mobile, etc. that's ok - they haven't actually done it yet
[18:19] <pwrquest> calc: thats what i wanted to hear.. thanks.
[18:19] <mjg59> Keybuk: Ah, a definition of "already drawn up" that I was previously unaware of :)
[18:20] <Keybuk> mjg59: I mucked my tenses up
[18:20] <Keybuk> "will have already drawn up"
[18:20] <mjg59> Yeah, that's fine
[18:20] <Keybuk> I expect we won't get the schedule done until the friday before
[18:20] <Keybuk> I know that Jorge has mailed everyone from the community who's attending
[18:21] <Keybuk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Intrepid/Brainstorm?highlight=%28intrepid%29
[18:22] <calc> cjwatson: license updated
[18:37] <cjwatson> calc: thanks
[18:37] <cjwatson> _MMA_: ArneGoetje is the main contact for language support stuff
[18:38] <mvo> calc, _MMA_: apt will install recommends in intrepid
[18:38] <popey> Keybuk: you know the links are busted on that brainstorm page?
[18:38] <_MMA_> cjwatson: Thanx.
[18:38] <popey> oh, no not all
[18:38] <Keybuk> popey: no ;)
[18:39]  * popey fix0rs, yay wikis
[18:39] <popey> typical, only broken link was to the brainstorm thing _I_ added! :)
[18:43] <calc> shane_: we found the problem and updated the bug report
[18:44] <calc> shane_: rather mdz found it after the rest of us were blind ;-)
[18:44]  * calc hugs mdz 
[18:45] <shane_> calc: :) so does that mean it will be fixed to the final release?
[18:45] <shane_> *for
[18:45] <ogra> archive is closed
[18:46] <shane_> argh..
[18:46] <cjwatson> shane_: it's a possibility for 8.04.1
[18:46] <cjwatson> since the dependency changes involved appear to be small
[18:46] <calc> shane_: archive has been closed for several days, so not for 8.04 but i have marked it as 8.04.1
[18:47] <calc> there are other bugs to fix in OOo for 8.04.1 already found so i can probably stick that one in as well
[18:48]  * calc tries to take a nap
[18:48] <shane_> actually i should have brought up earlier because it was present in gutsy as well... i found it while trying to remaster a cd... when i saw xubuntu hardy came without OOo by default i thought it wud've been fixed
[18:49] <laga> what happens to uploads to universe which didn't make it in before the hard freeze happened?
[18:50] <cjwatson> Keybuk: patches.ubuntu.com/by-release/atomic/ubuntu/ seems to have stopped updating
[18:50] <cjwatson> laga: they'll be rejected and will need to be reuploaded to hardy-proposed if appropriate for SRUs
[18:51] <laga> ok, thanks
[18:51] <cjwatson> Keybuk: (I noticed that http://patches.ubuntu.com/by-release/atomic/ubuntu/s/scim/ doesn't have the most recent three uploads)
[18:55] <laga> mdz: just wondering. do you still use mythtv? you used to package it back in 2004/05
[18:55] <Keybuk> cjwatson: it has stopped updating
[18:55] <Keybuk> debian master exploded $TIME ago
[18:57] <Amaranth> mjg59: Didn't you make the "Enable touchpad" option?
[18:57] <mdz> laga: I don't even have a TV anymore, sorry
[18:57] <Keybuk> mdz: I should hope not; such things need a licence ;)
[18:59] <mjg59> Amaranth: No
[19:01] <Keybuk> mjg59: err @ livejournal ... isn't that old news? :p
[19:02] <mjg59> Keybuk: Yeah, but it never got fixed :p
[19:03] <Keybuk> mjg59: it's only arguably broken ;)
[19:03] <mdz> cjwatson: what does this language-support issue mean for xubuntu 8.04?
[19:03] <cjwatson> mdz: it means they get to download a bit more during installation
[19:04] <cjwatson> assuming they connected the network
[19:04] <cjwatson> I don't think it justifies panic
[19:04] <mdz> cjwatson: does it justify delaying until the next oo.o update?
[19:05] <mdz> given that xubuntu folks seem to care about gnome libraries getting pulled in, oo.o seems like it might be a concern for them
[19:09] <cjwatson> mdz: I think that's cody-somerville's decision to make
[19:09] <cjwatson> (or the Xubuntu community's in general)
[19:11] <mdz> cody-somerville: ^
[19:54] <Skiessi> a stupid bug, adding some space before the actual address in nautilus address bar causes an error and doesn't say why
[19:55] <Skiessi> *bug:
[19:55] <Skiessi> too late to fix it?
[19:55] <cjwatson> I'm afraid so
[19:55] <cjwatson> please ensure that it's filed in Launchpad
[19:56] <cjwatson> we have frozen, and built and tested (almost) all images, and will only be accepting changes for absolute showstoppers; at this point they would probably have to be serious enough to delay the release
[20:00] <seb128> that seems a minor issue
[20:01] <seb128> I don't think many users types address in nautilus and those who do probably don't do this mistake often
[20:06] <Skiessi> but copying and pasteing stuff can cause problems and unnecessary questions for some people
[20:07] <Skiessi> stuff like urls
[20:07] <Skiessi> and other addresses
[20:11] <seb128> you don't often copy urls in nautilus since that's a file browser and not an internet one
[20:12] <Skiessi> :o that's a bug too, windows has integrated them
[20:12] <seb128> no, that's a design choice, we have a web browser to do that
[20:14] <jcastro> I could have sworn I saw that whitespace url bug in upstream gnome bugzilla before
[20:14] <jcastro> but I can't seem to find it
[20:15] <seb128> I'm not sure that ever worked and we never got a bug report about it in launchpad, that indicates that the issue doesn't bother so many users
[20:19] <ogra> its a trivial fix to remove whitespace from a string before processing it i imagine :)
[20:20] <laga> yes, but is it always wanted? :)
[20:20] <Keybuk> this seems far too much discussion for such a trivial bug ;-)
[20:21]  * laga is bored because the archives are frozen ;)
[20:23] <ScottK2> laga: Think backports.
[20:23] <laga> yup
[20:25] <Skiessi> gnome-panel froze/crashed
[20:25] <Skiessi> I think it shouldn't do that the day before release
[20:27] <Skiessi> a week before intrepid repository opens?
[20:29]  * ogra points laga to the ltsp upstream branch :P
[20:30] <laga> ogra: we should talk first before i try to get my stuff merged
[20:30] <ogra> well, the ubntu plugin dir is completely ours
[20:31] <ogra> the only stuff we need to discuss are changes to the commonly shared code
[20:31] <laga> yes, the initramfs code.
[20:31] <laga> #ltsp
[21:42] <mdz> cjwatson: the number of language pack/support packages in the DVD livefs makes the last bit of ubiquity's progress bar even more excruciating
[21:43] <cjwatson> mdz: I know, it isn't ideal
[21:43] <cjwatson> mdz: I hope you aren't expecting me to do anything about it for 8.04, though
[21:43] <mdz> cjwatson: not at all
[21:43] <mdz> cjwatson: I've just been waiting for a test installation to complete for quite a while
[21:44] <mdz> cjwatson: I truly didn't realize just how many additional packages there were
[21:44] <mdz> cjwatson: I just saw libgcj-common in there...
[21:44] <cjwatson> I'm not entirely sure why libgcj-common would be getting removed
[21:44] <cjwatson> you ought to be keeping at least one OOo language pack, surely
[21:45] <cjwatson> unless you're installing in a language that doesn't have that
[21:45] <mdz> en_GB
[21:45] <cjwatson> and even then, why is openoffice.org (the full metapackage) getting pulled in for localisation?
[21:46] <mdz> cjwatson: removing libgcj-common on my installed system doesn't disturb language-*-en
[21:46] <mdz> or oo.o for that matter
[21:47] <cjwatson> openoffice.org-hyphenation-{hr,lt,pl} Depends: openoffice.org
[21:47] <cjwatson> -hr and -pl have alternatives for it
[21:47] <cjwatson> calc: ^--
[21:47] <cjwatson> calc: it would be worth fixing at least openoffice.org-hyphenation-lt's dependencies in an SRU, I think
[21:49] <cjwatson> calc: in fact, I think all three of those could do with | language-support-writing-<language> alternatives
[21:49] <slytherin> What is the policy for SRU these days. If there is a bug which is cause obex transfer problem from Symbian based phones to PC and it might be fixed by a merge with Debian package, is it likely to get in SRU?
[21:49] <cjwatson> slytherin: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
[21:50] <mdz> slytherin: it is, as always, a risk/benefit judgement
[21:50] <cjwatson> slytherin: one thing that can fairly easily be said is that "might" isn't good enough; it needs a high degree of developer confidencec
[21:50] <cjwatson> -c
[21:51] <slytherin> cjwatson: The thing is that people have said they tried debian package and it fixed the bug. I myself don't have symbian based phone. All I can do is provide a merged package so that enough testing can be done before even proposing it for SRU.
[21:52] <cjwatson> slytherin: unless that's the only thing that the Debian package changes, a backport is significantly preferable to a merge
[21:54] <slytherin> cjwatson: Debian package is a new upstream release (3.30 against Ubuntu's 3.26). So a backport would not be possible. At least from my point of view, since I have no idea how and what all have changed.
[21:54] <cjwatson> slytherin: somebody definitely has to figure out what the change that fixes the bug was
[21:55] <cjwatson> we aren't likely to accept a wholesale merge like that for an SRU
[21:55] <cjwatson> there have been exceptions, but they're few and far between
[21:55] <cjwatson> slytherin: if you can't, I suggest asking upstream for help
[21:55] <slytherin> cjwatson: Then I am not the man for that job. I will try to get Tollef's view on this.
[22:00] <cjwatson> slytherin: my openoffice.org seed changes made powerpc horrifically oversized, fyi
[22:01] <cjwatson> I might have to yoink that back out if I have time (ports aren't really getting tested anyway ...)
[22:01] <laga> cjwatson: the mythbuntu disk works now. many thanks
[22:01] <cjwatson> laga: great!
[22:01] <cjwatson> just as well, basically no time to fix it if it had been broken ...
[22:01] <laga> yup. i wasted one hour last night before i realized i forgot to 'bzr push' your fix, though. :)
[22:06] <slytherin> cjwatson: As of now the powerpc image is at 644M. Why are you saying it got oversized?
[22:08] <cjwatson> slytherin: because I'm looking at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/daily-live/current/ where it's 750M
[22:08] <cjwatson> gar, previous image got purged too
[22:09] <slytherin> cjwatson: oops, so there is 100 MB difference between alternate and desktop?
[22:11] <cjwatson> apparently
[22:11] <cjwatson> I haven't dug into the reasons yet; I'm sure there was a bit more space than that before
[22:12] <cjwatson> slytherin: but I suspect I'll just revert the change, which is the appropriate response to (even ports) breakage at this point
[22:13] <slytherin> cjwatson: yes, you are right. An OOo installed over internet is anyway preferred than overzised images.
[22:13] <slangasek> :-)
[22:14] <ogra> well, there is 800M media
[22:14] <cjwatson> which does mean I have to figure out how to get the publisher to do that without publishing any packages ...
[22:14] <ogra> its just harder to get
[22:15] <cjwatson> ogra: given that most powerpc hardware is getting old, it's not appropriate to rely on bleeding-edge media for it
[22:15] <cjwatson> IMO
[22:15] <ogra> bleeding edge ?
[22:15] <cjwatson> you think that all powerpc drives will be able to cope with 800MB media?
[22:15] <cjwatson> I wouldn't like to make that bet
[22:15] <ogra> the pack of 10 800M CDRW i have upstairs is from 2002 or so
[22:15] <twi_> I can confirm that my powerbook feels really OLD nowdays :)
[22:16] <ogra> and i bought it at the discounter
[22:16] <seb128> is that normal that the eom temporary user doesn't how its desktop directory?
[22:16] <cjwatson> seb128: explain?
[22:16] <ogra> i havent tried my G4 ibook with 800M media ever though
[22:17] <seb128> cjwatson: the temporary user you have after the installation
[22:17] <seb128> cjwatson: it doesn't have write permissions on the Desktop directory
[22:17] <cjwatson> I know what the oem user is
[22:17] <seb128> cjwatson: it's owned by root:999 when doing a ls -l
[22:17] <cjwatson> you said "doesn't how" - what was that a typo for?
[22:17] <seb128> own
[22:17] <seb128> doh, sorry
[22:17] <cjwatson> seb128: that's a bug, I thought I'd fixed that
[22:18] <seb128> s/how/own
[22:18] <cjwatson> seb128: installation from alternate or desktop?
[22:18] <seb128> cjwatson: still there on the current i386 image
[22:18] <seb128> cjwatson: desktop i386
[22:18] <cjwatson> sigh, ubiquity bug
[22:19] <evand> oem-config, no?
[22:19] <mdke> cjwatson: yes, I mailed it but I guess things have been too busy for him to push it. I'll get into gear for the 8.04 stuff soon. I've been thinking about asking for access myself to help.u.c
[22:19] <cjwatson> evand: no
[22:19]  * cjwatson piles hate on that particular bit of reimplementation
[22:19] <cjwatson> mdke: I nudged him after finding the mail
[22:19] <seb128> cjwatson: do you have a bug number?
[22:19] <cjwatson> seb128: please file it
[22:19] <cjwatson> evand: there's a reimplementation of bits of oem-config in ubiquity/scripts/install.py, unfortunately :-/
[22:20] <mdke> cjwatson: ah, fine. Thanks
[22:20] <cjwatson> flagged with a TODO and a "great big chemical fire" comment
[22:20] <evand> right, forgot about that bit until you started piling on the hate.
[22:20] <evand> indeed :)
[22:21] <slytherin> cjwatson: time to hit bed. Thanks for all the help on OOo. Best luck for release critical bugs. :-)
[22:21] <ogra> there are no release critical bugs !
[22:21] <cjwatson> seb128: actually, don't
[22:21] <seb128> bug #153648
[22:21] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 153648 in oem-config "nonfunctional root desktop after oem config" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/153648
[22:22] <cjwatson> seb128: 209683 will do, given a new task
[22:22] <cjwatson> heh, looks like a dup
[22:22] <seb128> hum, no, the title looked like it but the description doesn't
[22:22] <cjwatson> seb128: 153648 could be anything, actually
[22:22] <seb128> cjwatson: ok, thanks
[22:22] <cjwatson> I've given it a ubiquity task
[22:25] <seb128> cjwatson, evand: bug #190029 is quite visible, I guess there is no settings manager running when the oem wizard is run?
[22:25] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 190029 in oem-config "Human theme is not used" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/190029
[22:25] <slytherin> ogra: I hope it doesn't change in next 24 hours. :-)
[22:26] <seb128> hum
[22:27]  * evand investigates
[22:28] <seb128> and bug #219209 happens in french too
[22:28] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 219209 in oem-config "United States keymap suggested for United Kingdom" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/219209
[22:34] <cjwatson> seb128: oem-config-dm does start gnome-settings-daemon
[22:34] <cjwatson> or at least try to
[22:35] <cjwatson> seb128: 219209 is all languages, I need to spend a bit of quality time with it
[22:36] <cjwatson> seb128: help welcome on a way to make it work without starting all of GNOME
[22:36] <cjwatson> (I did try using gnome-session at one point, but it was horrifically difficult and I never got it working)
[22:37] <cjwatson> maybe starting gnome-settings-daemon before metacity would do it?
[22:38] <cjwatson> doesn't seem to be necessary for ubiquity though
[22:38] <cjwatson> which has very similar code
[22:41] <seb128> cjwatson: right, g-s-d is running, weird
[22:41] <seb128> and the key seems to be correct
[22:41] <seb128> is there a way to start something else on the same screen than the eom wizard?
[22:42] <cjwatson> er, not easily unfortunately
[22:42] <cjwatson> actually
[22:42] <cjwatson> yeah, you can
[22:42] <seb128> I guess I can modify whatever start the eom command to start something else too?
[22:42] <cjwatson> switch to tty2 and log in as oem
[22:42] <cjwatson> then sudo DISPLAY=:0 whatever
[22:43] <cjwatson> (didn't use to work because oem was deleted, but that's now done later)
[22:43] <seb128> oh
[22:45] <seb128> eom is deleted in fact now but I logged using the user I added and ran eom prepare tools again and rebooted so I've standard user available
[22:46] <seb128> ok, that's a decorator bug you are right, we used to get it in the standard session too but now gnome-session starts the settings daemon before starting the applications
[22:47] <cjwatson> so would it work if g-s-d were started before metacity?
[22:47] <seb128> yes, starting g-s-d before would workaround it
[22:47] <cjwatson> and how come it works in ubiquity?
[22:47] <cjwatson> (or am I mad and it doesn't?)
[22:47] <seb128> the standalone ubiquity mode?
[22:47] <cjwatson> yeah
[22:47] <evand> you're not mad, it doesn't show up there
[22:47] <cjwatson> race condition?
[22:47] <seb128> dunno, do you start things in the same order?
[22:47] <cjwatson> yes
[22:47] <seb128> might be a race yes
[22:48] <cjwatson> at any rate g-s-d is definitely started after metacity
[22:48] <cjwatson> could be live CD slowness makes us nearly always win the race there
[22:48] <seb128> when the GNOME session was starting everything in an asynchronous mode only some users had the issue
[22:48] <TheMuso> I was wondering about that myself when doing the a11y work recently. I thought gnome-session started gsd before the window manager as well.
[22:50] <seb128> TheMuso: gnome-session does that, but they are not using gnome-session there
[22:50] <TheMuso> seb128: I know.
[23:07] <emgent> welcome HARDY!
[23:24] <bryce> ogasawara: can you take a look at #153425?  It was filed against xorg but from all the comments it seems to be a linux issue, so I've refiled against linux-source-2.6.24.  I don't know if it has all the necessary triaging info.
[23:26] <ogasawara> bryce:  I'll take a peek, thanks.
[23:59] <crimsun> bryce: your comment on bug 191027 needs more info, namely, the output from `pulseaudio -vv'
[23:59] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 191027 in totem ""Failed to connect stream: Invalid argument"" [High,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/191027